# Mantic DreadBall



## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

*EDIT:* Scroll down for update.

Mantic has announced a new kickstarter campaign: Dreadball, a futuristic sport game.










The website: www.dreadball.com is just a counter right now, but will go live in a week (as of this writing).

The basic game will have humans and Orx, with booster teams, Forgefathers and Veer-myn.

The players will be categorized as "strong brawler," "field player," and "fast player." A player will have four stats.

Here's a leaked list that's currently circulating (take with a pinch of salt):


> NYA MGE DBF11-1 DB Midgard Delvers $24.99
> NYA MGE DBF70-1 DB Forge Father MVP $9.99
> NYA MGE DBH11-1 DB Trontek 29er's $24.99
> NYA MGE DBH70-1 DB Human MVP $9.99
> ...


You'll notice that there is a Goblin MVP rather than an Orx one and that the Veer-myn MVP has no MSRP, the lists I've found don't have it. Supposedly, the minis will be plastic and either one piece or snap-fit, but looking at some of the prices, I'm thinking some will be metal.

And here's a pic of the pitch. So far, no one knows what the colors mean.










So, what do you all think?

*UPDATE:*










Okay, from what I can see of this image, it looks like jai alai. Teams of three fight over a ball moving 190mph (300km/h).

Well, that explains the armor; you'd probably die otherwise. (Though I do wonder why the human in the foreground has no helmet, while the others in the back do.) And I like the Orx cesta, only they could make a basket into a weapon.

So now that we know it's not football, what do you all think?


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## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Dicrel Seijin said:


> So, what do you all think?


I think that with the talent pool Mantic have, they could do so much more than just re-hashing GW's ideas over and over again.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

If I wanted to do a sports game I would play Madden on the Xbox or go out and actually play said sport. I do not have any interest in spending money on miniatures to play a sport.


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## davespil (Apr 28, 2008)

scscofield said:


> If I wanted to do a sports game I would play Madden on the Xbox or go out and actually play said sport. I do not have any interest in spending money on miniatures to play a sport.


You took the words right out of my mouth. Reminds if when I saw a miniature war game that was actually miniatures playing paintball... All I can say is it's a brave new world...


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## davespil (Apr 28, 2008)

Dicrel Seijin said:


> And here's a pic of the pitch. So far, no one knows what the colors mean.


Your an American! Call it a field not a pitch!


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i would just once like to see mantic do something vaguely original


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Not overly excited by this as never been a fan of bloodbowl. However 1 plus over gw...it will be supported!


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

slaaneshy said:


> Not overly excited by this as never been a fan of bloodbowl. However 1 plus over gw...it will be supported!


hmmm, GW offers free rules and over 15 teams plus star players and it has released this stand alone game three times and has a computer game which has been expanded recently.

Mantic are just piddling about with it .... as usual.


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## jaggedjaw (Oct 2, 2010)

In all honesty, this looks like a bad idea. Most people who I know only play Blood ball because they were around for when GW was still new(er). I'll keep an eye on this, but they could try a different sport like hockey or something.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Oh Ronnie, why? Any game other than American Football would have made it not just a copy of Blood Bowl. I know your writers are those the Studio has laid off, but really? 

Lacrosse and Hockey are perfectly violent / viable games, why not use those as a base? 

Do you guys really hold such a grudge that you absolutely have to prove you can write the same stuff but 'better'? *sigh*


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

If it is a Bloodbowl clone then meh...

On the other hand, if they do something like Speedball 2 from waaaay back in the day then


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Speedball and bloodbowl are virtually identical. One is futuristic. I remember playing speedball on the Amiga...


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

davespil said:


> Your an American! Call it a field not a pitch!


Yes, but I don't play sports. You're lucky I identified with at least the correct term (albeit in British English).



the.alleycat.uk said:


> If it is a Bloodbowl clone then meh...


With what digging around I did I could not confirm if this was a Bloodbowl clone (with the difference being in the future). I was hoping someone could look at the pitch (or field) and make some sense of it (and confirm if it is something like Bloodbowl or not--I never played it).

I mean for all anyone knows it's going to be dodgeball or maybe Rollerball (which would be perfect--and I'm talking about the original, not the remake).


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

From a glance it seems to be a mix of Bloodbowl and, well... quidditch.

There is no touchline or endzone to score in, which implies that the three areas in each half are "scoring zones" with the single darker tile being the "goal". However we still have a line of scrimmage across the middle of the table.

And yes, I second the motion for Mantic to stop copying GW crap and bring out some cooler models/concepts.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Sethis said:


> From a glance it seems to be a mix of Bloodbowl and, well... quidditch.
> 
> There is no touchline or endzone to score in, which implies that the three areas in each half are "scoring zones" with the single darker tile being the "goal". However we still have a line of scrimmage across the middle of the table.
> 
> And yes, I second the motion for Mantic to stop copying GW crap and bring out some cooler models/concepts.


They cant, they are in it for a quick buck, and the fastest and most risk free way is to leech of the biggest and most sucessful and not take any risks.

Im considering doing a kickstarter myself, havent come up with a project but i figure there must be someones IP i can plunder and get wargamers to foot the development costs while i swim around in my money bin


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> They cant, they are in it for a quick buck, and the fastest and most risk free way is to leech of the biggest and most sucessful and not take any risks.
> 
> Im considering doing a kickstarter myself, havent come up with a project but i figure there must be someones IP i can plunder and get wargamers to foot the development costs while i swim around in my money bin


Have mantic somehow personally harmed you in some way Bits? Because any time I see you speak of them, I'd swear you think they are evil! 

What makes you think mantic are in this for "a quick buck"


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Have mantic somehow personally harmed you in some way Bits? Because any time I see you speak of them, I'd swear you think they are evil!
> 
> What makes you think mantic are in this for "a quick buck"


He sells GW not mantic!


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Have mantic somehow personally harmed you in some way Bits? Because any time I see you speak of them, I'd swear you think they are evil!
> 
> What makes you think mantic are in this for "a quick buck"


They attacked him personally when they made the decision to create a line of models that cannot really be bought as bitz (or at least, there's no point in doing so).

Obviously they had no reason to do so other than to spite our very own bits and kits. :biggrin: :wink:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I just find mantic direction to be distasteful,initially i was excited at the prospect of another company producing plastics,but as time has gone on its clear that the quality isnt there and that they are simply in it to offer quick and dirty cheap models and simply a poor version of GW. 

Yes i am a dyed in the wool GW fanatic,i make no appologies for that, but i dont see mantic as the savior of wargamers like many do,im a modeler first so quality of sculpt and variety on the sprue is whats important,when i build a unit of 30men i want everyone of them to be an character in his own right,mantic dont offer that and for the most part GW do,its what i like and its the reason i do what i do.

Plus im sick of distributors trying to off load kings of war stock to me at cost and telling me "its the same as warhammer"


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> I just find mantic direction to be distasteful,initially i was excited at the prospect of another company producing plastics,but as time has gone on its clear that the quality isnt there and that they are simply in it to offer quick and dirty cheap models and simply a poor version of GW.
> 
> Yes i am a dyed in the wool GW fanatic,i make no appologies for that, but i dont see mantic as the savior of wargamers like many do,im a modeler first so quality of sculpt and variety on the sprue is whats important,when i build a unit of 30men i want everyone of them to be an character in his own right,mantic dont offer that and for the most part GW do,its what i like and its the reason i do what i do.
> 
> Plus im sick of distributors trying to off load kings of war stock to me at cost and telling me "its the same as warhammer"


The quality matter is highly subjective and personally I think they're sculpt quality is largely great. 

As to the variety. I do agree with you there. I really like the early kits for their number of bits, but as time has gone on the variety has decreased, mostly due to costs I assume. But hopefully it will pick up again in the next 12 months. 

The thing that annoys me (not you personally bits don't worry) is how quick people are to complain about mantic saying they're ripping of GW but the same people never say a word about all the other companies that do it. Yes mantic make generic fantasy and sci fi minis, but they do have their own rules system and their own fluff. It's a hell of a lot further than the majority of manufacturers that people seem to have no problem with.


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> The quality matter is highly subjective and personally I think they're sculpt quality is largely great.
> 
> As to the variety. I do agree with you there. I really like the early kits for their number of bits, but as time has gone on the variety has decreased, mostly due to costs I assume. But hopefully it will pick up again in the next 12 months.
> 
> The thing that annoys me (not you personally bits don't worry) is how quick people are to complain about mantic saying they're ripping of GW but the same people never say a word about all the other companies that do it. Yes mantic make generic fantasy and sci fi minis, but they do have their own rules system and their own fluff. It's a hell of a lot further than the majority of manufacturers that people seem to have no problem with.


It could be [not saying it is, but definitely a possibility] is the way Mantic have gone about doing it... coupled with the fact that it was founded by a former GW sales director and started up with a bunch of former GW staff. 

My personal opininion is that there mins have been ok but nothing special... though more consistant at least than most other mini companies. The new enforcers actually look pretty good imo and seem to have a more generalised sci-fi heavy armour vibe.

They just have done nothing that has made me go "Wow!" so personally i'm ambivilent. So while they simply clone GW stuff; imo they're worthy of nothing but apathy and/or contempt.

If they ever do something original, then i'm happy to reasess


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

From the comments, I know that this has not gone over well (to say the least), but there is some new info. And a nice big pic.










Okay, from what I can see of this image, it looks like jai alai. Teams of three fight over a ball moving 190mph (300km/h). 

Well, that explains the armor; you'd probably die otherwise. (Though I do wonder why the human in the foreground has no helmet, while the others in the back do.) And I like the Orx cesta, only they could make a basket into a weapon.

So now that we know it's not football, what do you all think?

And I've updated first post.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Pretty much sounds like they've ripped off the old Speedball computer game, and jammed it into a bloodbowl esque future setting...

So same old drill as usual for Mantic, ripping off other peoples ideas.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> Pretty much sounds like they've ripped off the old Speedball computer game, and jammed it into a bloodbowl esque future setting...
> 
> So same old drill as usual for Mantic, ripping off other peoples ideas.


So you've played the game and seen all it's similarities have you?

Yes, the game is clearly targeted towards the bloodbowl market. But it's sci fi, not fantasy, a different board style and until it's released, for all you know the game play is totally different.


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

From the picture, it does look like they've tried to make it a bit like futuristic lacrosse. 

I'm willing to see where this goes. It's just the initial set-up (Orks vs humans, for a start) just feels so familiar. They're even in similar colours...


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Anyone else looking at that picture and hearing a faint daft punk tune in there heads ?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Pretty much sounds like they've ripped off the old Speedball computer game, and jammed it into a bloodbowl esque future setting...
> 
> So same old drill as usual for Mantic, ripping off other peoples ideas.


Cool can you give us some game reports then, how did it play? 

Oh wait you're just full of crap like Bits, I forgot. It would be interesting to see if you and bits could get together an come up with an original concept. You seem to believe it's pretty simple, just an outline.

It looks like Speedball which would be a cool little board game if it came out like that.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I dont see how Griz or my ability to come up with an original game concept is relevant, we are perfectly capable of seeing two products and seeing the similarities/influences, plus add to that Mantics obvious strategy of releasing products that have more than just a passing resemblance to GWs core games and as was pointed out by silvertabby, the company is run by unsuccessful GW employees, its difficult to come to anything other than "bloodbowl clone" Ok they have done enough to keep GW legal from the door, they would be stupid not to.

as for being full of shit, i take exception to that, 99% full of shit 1% is piss and wind.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> I dont see how Griz or my ability to come up with an original game concept is relevant, we are perfectly capable of seeing two products and seeing the similarities/influences, plus add to that Mantics obvious strategy of releasing products that have more than just a passing resemblance to GWs core games and as was pointed out by silvertabby, the company is run by unsuccessful GW employees, its difficult to come to anything other than "bloodbowl clone" Ok they have done enough to keep GW legal from the door, they would be stupid not to.
> 
> as for being full of shit, i take exception to that, 99% full of shit 1% is piss and wind.


But see the things is, and I keep bringing it up because no one else seems to acknowledge it: 

The majority of companies on the market (sci fi/fantasy. Not historical) make miniatures with "more than just a passing resemblance to GWs core games" it makes sense to aim your products towards people looking for a cheaper alternatives. That does not make mantic products clones though. 

Kings of war is a fantasy game, but it's rules are nothing like warhammer (except I guess that it uses tape measure, miniatures and dice?) And yes, the current 8 armies are the *archetypal fantasy* races (Not warhammer, otherwise they would already have rats, lizardmen and beastmen)

Now that the staples of fantasy are done, mantic are moving to the celestials, an army of "angels". GW may have some angelic units, but there isn't a whole army devoted to it. 

Dreadball and bloodbowl are both sports games, they both have a variety of races and both use balls - but water and vodka are both wet, both clear and both often mixed with other liquids - so they must be the same right?


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> I dont see how Griz or my ability to come up with an original game concept is relevant, we are perfectly capable of seeing two products and seeing the similarities/influences, plus add to that Mantics obvious strategy of releasing products that have more than just a passing resemblance to GWs core games and as was pointed out by silvertabby, the company is run by unsuccessful GW employees, its difficult to come to anything other than "bloodbowl clone" Ok they have done enough to keep GW legal from the door, they would be stupid not to.
> 
> as for being full of shit, i take exception to that, 99% full of shit 1% is piss and wind.


It is relevant because you constantly criticise Mantic for not being original. No war game or miniature range is really that original, even GW's products are rip off's of earlier concepts. That is why, without a hint of joking, I say you and Griz are full of shit. 

Yes you hate Mantic, we get it, so could you just shut the fuck up about it now?


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Another pic for y'all:









While I do look at it and think speedball and bloodbowl (as anyone in their right mind would - table top american footy style/looking game is always going to be seen as this), I fucking love Bloodbowl (was actually beaten 2-1 last night...), so will have a bash at this too. As with every game, it could be ace it could be shite. I thought man-o-war was shite, but love dreadfleet, so it just depends how it's done.

Like the look of some of the mini's though! Think it could be worth a mooch!


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Aramoro said:


> Yes you hate Mantic, we get it, so could you just shut the fuck up about it now?


sure thing, all you had to do was ask, i wont mention Mantic again......I promise, scouts honour dibdib and all that shite.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> sure thing, all you had to do was ask, i wont mention Mantic again......I promise, scouts honour dibdib and all that shite.


I'm fine with you (or anyone. Everyone is entitled to an opinion) not liking Mantic. I'd just like to start seeing real reasons (don't like the sculpts for x reason, don't like the new price point of sprueless plastic minis, i think they're expanding too quickly etc.) rather than the "ermahgerd they are just copying. they're so shit." and comments like "the company is run by unsuccessful GW employees".


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I'm fine with you (or anyone. Everyone is entitled to an opinion) not liking Mantic. I'd just like to start seeing real reasons (don't like the sculpts for x reason, don't like the new price point of sprueless plastic minis, i think they're expanding too quickly etc.) rather than the "ermahgerd they are just copying. they're so shit." and comments like "the company is run by unsuccessful GW employees".



In some cases Reaper i think that the actions of the company are as valid an opinion as anything else, after all we all get up in each others grills when GW stop indies exporting or raise prices etc 

Plus people are not making these links about copying without good reason,If Mantic had come to the market and not blatantly gone after a share of the warhammer fantasy miniature market they wouldnt have been A,accused of copying GW or B, still been in business. They made there bed so to speak, they wanted to copy GW, because they want a portion of GWs hobbyiest to buy there products, Kings of war rules are just a smoke and mirrors rule set, Mantic are not in this to sell rule books they are in this purely to capture those who dont want to spend more than they can afford on Models but still play warhammer and to some extent 40k,though that seems to have faltered a little with the poor sales of warpath.

But we cant pick and choose what people post in response to a news thread, you dont have to agree with what i feel about Mantic, you dont have to read my opinion about mantic the company, but the company keeps producing stuff that smells like GW,feels like GW so they are gonna keep getting called on it, if they produce a dungeon game with card tiles and heros its gonna get compared to quest, if they produce a scifi version its gonna be called a space hulk/crusade clone, Because they started out as a company trying to emulate GW and steal GWs customers with cheap and dirty models.

If they want to lose the GW rip off tag then let them produce some historic stuff ? Or buy a licence and do a movie tie in or ask palladium books for the rights to Rifts and produce a war game for that universe.

all this text above was me shutting the fuck up by the way


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## SilverTabby (Jul 31, 2009)

Mantic isn't full of "unsuccessful GW employees". Ronnie's tenure as Studio Director was fantastic. Allessio, for all he likes to win at tourneys, is a lovely chap and wrote good stuff. 

If anything, Mantic has been cleverly filling several of the gaps that they've (correctly) identified the public wanted. Squats and Space Skaven, for a start. They've also come close enough to GW that they can get the cross-over market without getting nailed. 

However, sometimes they stray very close to the line, and this is one occasion. I have said I'm willing to give it a go though, and it does look sufficiently different to not be a direct clone. If the "4 stats" mentioned are identical to Bloodbowl then I shall be disappointed. Likely won't stop me playing as I love Bloodbowl (4th Ed) and if they do a Veer Myn team I'm in, but I'd still be disappointed...


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> In some cases Reaper i think that the actions of the company are as valid an opinion as anything else, after all we all get up in each others grills when GW stop indies exporting or raise prices etc
> 
> Plus people are not making these links about copying without good reason,If Mantic had come to the market and not blatantly gone after a share of the warhammer fantasy miniature market they wouldnt have been A,accused of copying GW or B, still been in business. They made there bed so to speak, they wanted to copy GW, because they want a portion of GWs hobbyiest to buy there products, Kings of war rules are just a smoke and mirrors rule set, Mantic are not in this to sell rule books they are in this purely to capture those who dont want to spend more than they can afford on Models but still play warhammer and to some extent 40k,though that seems to have faltered a little with the poor sales of warpath.
> 
> ...


You are mostly right. The reason I get so frustrated is becuase mantic is one of dozens of companies that started out with the aim of pulling away GW players, but they seem to be the only one (aside from chapterhouse) that constantly get called on it. 

And as to the ruleset being a mirror. That may have been the case 3 years ago when it was a 16 page leaflet. But it's hardly that now it has a 144 page hardback book complete with fluff and all the trimmings. There are also two expansion books coming in the next year as well as a series of novels. So it's not really smoke and mirrors. Of course, they all exist ultimately to sell miniatures, but so does every black library novel. What I'm getting at is that to say the rules and fluff is just smoke and mirrors is to do a disservice to the work that's been put into them.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm something of a fence sitter with Mantic - I really like their Ghouls and Zombies but 90% of the rest of their models do not appeal at all.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> You are mostly right. The reason I get so frustrated is becuase mantic is one of dozens of companies that started out with the aim of pulling away GW players, but they seem to be the only one (aside from chapterhouse) that constantly get called on it.
> 
> And as to the ruleset being a mirror. That may have been the case 3 years ago when it was a 16 page leaflet. But it's hardly that now it has a 144 page hardback book complete with fluff and all the trimmings. There are also two expansion books coming in the next year as well as a series of novels. So it's not really smoke and mirrors. Of course, they all exist ultimately to sell miniatures, but so does every black library novel. What I'm getting at is that to say the rules and fluff is just smoke and mirrors is to do a disservice to the work that's been put into them.


They get called on it because of how they went about it, they have placed themselves in direct competition with like for like models, thats different to pulling away players to another game system, because Kings of war isnt another system, its the same system,the rules and fluff might differ and it might have a different name on the sprues but it is "warhammer" its just another companies "warhammer".

They produced models to compete with warhammer and to sell to warhammer players, they produced a sci fi version of that range to sell to 40k players, then they produce a version of the second most popular stand alone box game GW have made, yes water isnt Vodka but whats next for mantic?Little black fronted shops? and Orc racing game perhaps? or maybe a naval battle game called Bloodfleet ?give us something we havent seen or is part of GW fluff. 

At the start PP was accused of being a bit 40k , war jacks looked a little dread like etc, but as time went on PP became more successful and the game is definitely not "warhammer". 
Other companies are trying to get GW players all the time , but most of them are doing it with games very different to warhammer though may share some stuff. 
Some companies produce models that complement or supplement GW core games like Scibor or puppetsofwar.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

bitsandkits said:


> They get called on it because of how they went about it, they have placed themselves in direct competition with like for like models, thats different to pulling away players to another game system, because Kings of war isnt another system, its the same system,the rules and fluff might differ and it might have a different name on the sprues but it is "warhammer" its just another companies "warhammer".
> 
> They produced models to compete with warhammer and to sell to warhammer players, they produced a sci fi version of that range to sell to 40k players, then they produce a version of the second most popular stand alone box game GW have made, yes water isnt Vodka but whats next for mantic?Little black fronted shops? and Orc racing game perhaps? or maybe a naval battle game called Bloodfleet ?give us something we havent seen or is part of GW fluff.
> 
> ...


But kings of war is another system. Completely. It doesn't play like warhammer, the rules are much more streamlined and simpler. 

I imagine in the next 12-18 months is when we will start to see the more "original" stuff from mantic (very little is completely original anyway)

Warpath has a couple more alien races to come (one of which will just be eldar I'll admit ) and kings of war will have the angels/demons/nature armies which hopefully will be different to GW. 

I too would like to see some more original stuff come out of mantic, but at the same time, I recognise the sense in making all the stuff you bring out in your mass battle ranges compatible with "that other game" 

Games like warmachine, infinity and malifaux can be more unique (in my opinion) because they are skirmish games. It takes a lot less investment to get into those games, and if it turns out you don't really like them then it's no big loss. But with a mass battle system, if you decide you don't like it, it's good to be able to use the army in your other system of choice.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

I agree that mantics system is different as are the models etc , but its still warhammer,many of the things that have been put in to make it different i would say are tjere purely to keep the lawyers at bay and who better to dodge that bullet than exstaff.well played but its still warhammer,warpath is still 40k and this game is bloodbowl, they are just mantics versions


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

bitsandkits said:


> I agree that mantics system is different as are the models etc , but its still warhammer,many of the things that have been put in to make it different i would say are tjere purely to keep the lawyers at bay and who better to dodge that bullet than exstaff.well played but its still warhammer,warpath is still 40k and this game is bloodbowl, they are just mantics versions


I question weather you've played Kings of War at all, because it's very different you know. What am I saying, of course you won't have played it, it would mean touching Mantic products which no doubt burn your skin on contact.

Instead just make some baseless accusations, as I said before full of shit. You suck at shutting the fuck up by the way.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> It would be interesting to see if you and bits could get together an come up with an original concept. You seem to believe it's pretty simple, just an outline.


I could tell you my origional concept, but then I'd have to kill you... 

Seriously though... theres a difference between ripping off someone elses work, and making it your own. 

Take Mantic... They copy GW's Stuff and change the setting. Kings of War is just Warhamemr Fantasy, Warpath 40k, and now this one is just Bloodbowl..

Bits pretty much summed up my feelings on them, so i don't really need to repeat him... there are other companies out there capable of doing similar things, Privateer Press for instance, who can take an idea and make it their own, without blatently copying GW.


As for origional ideas... Problem is pretty much everything has already been done, so if you want to do something similar, you'll always get accused of copying if you don't make it unique enough.

Take the new guys doing Dropship Comander... you could easily call foul and say they are ripping off Epic... but the rule system and gameplay are so far different, as are the mechanics of the models, its only an idiot that would call it a rip off.. yet, its a similar scale game based on moving large armies and units about the map in a futuristic setting.

I, off the top of my head, can see a game based on salvage teams, exploting an ancient planet that was the hub of a galactic empire of many different species... and I could draw element of Gorkamorka and Necromunda and Warhammer quest into it, and even from the base idea of 'Salvage teams on an ancient planet', people could run off with their own ideas of it too.

Point is, its hard to be unique, but its easy to not rip off others.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Seriously, Aramoro, do you have some personal stuff going on in your life that's making you lash out on here? Last few weeks you've been big on the insults and short on the temper. You've lost a lot of my respect (which I doubt you care about, but what the hell) with comments like that recently.

Calm the hell down. If you disagree with Bits then say so and quit the thread if reading what he types makes you so angry.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Sethis said:


> Seriously, Aramoro, do you have some personal stuff going on in your life that's making you lash out on here? Last few weeks you've been big on the insults and short on the temper. You've lost a lot of my respect (which I doubt you care about, but what the hell) with comments like that recently.
> 
> Calm the hell down. If you disagree with Bits then say so and quit the thread if reading what he types makes you so angry.


Thing is I like coming to this section and reading what companies are making seeing what new games or minature are coming out. Every Mantic thread has Bits and GrizBe going 'It's shit' every single one of them. Generally not for any good reason other than 'Mantic are shit'. If they stop threadshitting every Mantic thread then i'll be perfectly happy, sunshine and kittens. But if someone is full of shit then i'll say that.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Anyone else getting the impression that Aramoro works for Mantic?


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## SonofVulkan (Apr 14, 2010)

The models look excellent. I might get myself a copy if the price is right.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> Anyone else getting the impression that Aramoro works for Mantic?


Hardly. He's no more defensive of mantic than I. And do you think I work for them


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm not going to speak for Bits but i am going to suggest that other poeple may have shorter memories.

Nobody is suggesting that the gaming system is the same.

What's being said is that the companies sole reason for existing, for starting up; was to try and leverage some of GW's market share by producing miniatures to explicitly compete with GW's ranges but at a cheaper price point.

I'm not sure how well this site is archived, but if it is; you will be able to go view the original posts by Mantic employees on this very site when they were first launching [think it was elves, dwarves and undead]... they damn near advertised themselves as minis you could use for warhammer but cheaper. [in fact they may have said exactly that]

Now i'm a mini centric gamer so if i had to choose to support a company, it'll be the one with exceptional, original and stunning minis... GW does that, Rackham disappeared and PP are getting better all the time... Mantic are still making bland clones of GW stuff; and yes, i kind of resent that if it got to the point of threatening GW's ability to keep making fabulous minis... otherwise i am indifferent.

All this is a long winded way of saying that people are entitled to their opinions and with a little consideration one can quite easily understand the reasoning for them... no real need to be agressive and rude about it other that the internet being serious business.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Well i have downloaded and read the rules kings of war and they have done very little to convince me that its just a chopped down version of warhammer fantasy, Im being told its a different system, but if i were to count the similarities i bet they would out number the differences, ok these are the free rules, so i dont know how much that differers from the hard back but im guessing they are pretty similar, so go on enlighten me what are the things that set this system apart from warhammer fantasy? and i dont want to know about stuff thats in fantasy and not in kings of war, (though i expect the expansions will add some of that like magic).


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

imm0rtal reaper said:


> Hardly. He's no more defensive of mantic than I. And do you think I work for them


I dunno.... *eyes suspicious looking employee nametag*


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

GrizBe said:


> I dunno.... *eyes suspicious looking employee nametag*


:haha: for the record, not an employee  just a fanboy!


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

I want to play speedball 2 now 

The mini's look quite cool, it would be nice to see some really novel designs for the other teams though.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

The website <www.dreadball.com> goes live in a little less than 23 hours as of this writing. Hopefully, there will be more than the drips and drabs that I've been coming across.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

I must say I am pretty ambivalent towards mantic as a company. They produce some interesting stuff which I am not really that interested in.

Now I like bloodbowl and just taking a quick look at this game makes me think it is not like bloodbowl. Besides being futuristic, it all uses hexes. This will certainly alter the dynamics of the game. The minatures look acceptable and it may be one of those games I get to see what its like before I pass judgment.

People are too quick to jump to defend or attack comapnies in my opinion. OK so you dont like mantics take on fanatsy wargaming, thats fair enough, but unless you have actually played it you cant call it a rip off from Warhammer.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Well despite the bitchin of some - and to bring this thread back on track - there is obviously a lot of love for dreadball and mantic out there - it exceeded its target on kickstarter in 3 hours!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game?ref=live


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

The game looks pretty cool on the kickstarter page. I'm quite tempted.


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Yeah it is semi tempting but not really my bag...however this is likely to be a great value package by the time the dust settles....just one of the small ways in which mantic differs from gw :biggrin:


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

slaaneshy said:


> Yeah it is semi tempting but not really my bag...however this is likely to be a great value package by the time the dust settles....just one of the small ways in which mantic differs from gw :biggrin:


They just released the prettiest starter set yet for £65, what more do you want :wink:


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

I've playtested DreadBall so am open for any questions anyone has about the game or the rules. Fire away


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## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

Varakir said:


> They just released the prettiest starter set yet for £65, what more do you want :wink:


More!


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

3 poses per team. No thanks...

I can't find anything I like about Mantic's products. They just seem like GW plastics from 20 yrs. ago.


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

Great article from Jake discussing the comparison between Blood Bowl and DreadBall: http://quirkworthy.com/2012/08/27/dreadball-and-the-elephant-in-the-room/


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## the.alleycat.uk (Jun 11, 2009)

mattjgilbert said:


> Great article from Jake discussing the comparison between Blood Bowl and DreadBall: http://quirkworthy.com/2012/08/27/dreadball-and-the-elephant-in-the-room/


Thanks for this, actually makes it sound a lot more like Speedball, which as per my earlier comment, makes it far more interesting to me.

Also, some of the sculpts look pretty good [more poses for the actual orks would be nice though ;p ] though overall a bit of a mixed bag. 

If there is a little more variety in poses when it comes out; i may even check it out.


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

Well the last stretch goal just added 2 more poses to each team in the box. More stretch goals = more new stuff added


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Why dont mantic just put all the poses in the box from the off and stop making the community jump through hoops,the lack of poses is putting alot of people off by the sounds of it.


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

Because the KS is raising the money to be able to do that. They've been able to fund the basic game and the first sculpts. The KS is to help fund and make the game better. Just like other KS projects for other games  If they had the money to do it, they wouldn't need a KS in the first place...


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Reading the blog just makes it worse, having to actually stand up and tell people that your game is -completely- different from another game that it is actually very similar to, is a bad place to be. 
I quite like some Mantic stuff and think other bits need a major rethink, but Mantic have made a terrible mistake in basing their business around the perceived shortfalls of a rival, GW.
No matter what we may collectively think of GW's business practices or attitude towards their customers, they are where they are for a reason, they make the best stuff and they make it easy to get. As much as I would like to see a real competitor to GW rise out of the mass of mediocrity, I really don't think Mantic will be that competitor, not while they are spending time telling the world that they are not GW.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

I have to say, the Kickstarter doesn't make me want to bid on it, despite actually liking the look of the game. You don't seem to get much bang for your buck.

I've bid on two kickstarters this year, Zombicide and Sedition Wars, and for $100 a pop, I've gotten around 200 miniatures and two games in total. $100 doesn't actually get you very much, the game, an extra three fellas per team and a ref? (ignore the print or what have you, that'd just go in the cupboard! ;-). So to me it makes it an expensive game.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to watch it until the end, if by the 30th September there's 50+ models for $100 I may well pick it up...:biggrin:


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

Well that's the goal. The striker deal is supposed to become very good if they can hit all their goals.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

For an extra $40 though, that was my point 

Game looks good though!


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

Grins1878 said:


> I have to say, the Kickstarter doesn't make me want to bid on it, despite actually liking the look of the game. You don't seem to get much bang for your buck.


Agreed. All i really want is the game, but it's an $80 pledge (which i imagine will be close to retail) so you just get an art print. Striker is good, but i don't want 4 teams for a game i haven't even played yet.


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

Another post by Jake with a glossary of game terms: http://quirkworthy.com/2012/08/28/dreadball-design-notes-a-glossary-of-terms/


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

I've started a post to make it easer to see the difference between Jack and Striker: http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?1891-DreadBall-Kickstarter-rewards-tracker

And Frontline Gamer has a new piece on the game: http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/i-can-talk-about-dreadball-now.html?m=1

More from Jake on Player Roles and stats: http://quirkworthy.com/2012/08/29/dreadball-design-notes-stats-player-roles/


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Well, the Veer-Myn stretch goal has been met:










And the KS is less than 2K away from the Wildcard stretch goal. Here's the concept art:


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

There was rumour of an all female team so this might indicate the look they will take.


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

An all female team could be interesting.

The only thing is I find it hard enough to get people to play bloodbowl, so I wonder how many people will actually be interested in playing this?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

humakt said:


> An all female team could be interesting.
> 
> The only thing is I find it hard enough to get people to play bloodbowl, so I wonder how many people will actually be interested in playing this?


I think you will struggle, being as the traffic on this thread dried up quickly once people found out about the lack of poses and price tag,though if its easy to play and fast paced it might be a good game to play as a filler,we used to play blood bowl back in the day if we didnt have enough time to play 40k/fantasy (back when 40k would take about a week to play 2000 points).

that female team member looks alot like Cora from Tron, and by alot like i mean, thats not concept art, thats a day in court like. Maybe they should add another stretch goal for legal fees or rethink the concept before sculpting these.

Though on a positive note (as i only talk shit about mantic)a female team would be a good addition to the game, gamers tend to have a soft spot for female miniatures, not sure if its a sexual thing or because women miniatures are few and far between,but you cant go far wrong with comic book looking women with tight fitting clothes and gravity defying breasts. But for the love of god make them plastic and do more than 3 poses ffs, good plastic female models could be a gold mine for mantic in terms of sales outside of the game as well as popular within it.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

I've been watching this, and as the goals stretch out, I'm pretty impressed with the way the striker! option is filling out. Looks expensive but it's only about 100 quid, and I'm sorely tempted to pick it up now.

May be able to run this alongside the bloodbowl league we run anyway!

With a house and a holiday to save for this could be an argument inducing purchase though...


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Well shit son, a fucking cathulu race! Awesome! I really *REALLY* hope that this is what the zz'or will look like in warpath. Certainly doesn't scream GW to me. 

I'd prefer his feet to be hooves (like the elites in halo) but this is the first thing from DB that's made me excited!


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

he looks cool and quite original, im seeing him in pale purple or green skin possibly with some blotchy markings and dark armour, i like, but as always with mantic, will have to wait to see the models because the concepts can be misleading.


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm still a bit undecided about this. I have my friends over regularly to play new games and this may make a nice change to "Fantasy Dungeon Crawl" or "4x Space Empire management". 

However the thing that bugs me is:



humakt said:


> The only thing is I find it hard enough to get people to play bloodbowl, so I wonder how many people will actually be interested in playing this?


This is almost the exact reasoning I play 40K or MtG; it's popularity and convenience make them my go-to games. The two big issues I see with Dreadball are as follows: 

A market that's too niche: Sports miniature games are seemingly unpopular around my parts. GRIND, Clix and Bloodbowl have less followings than Subutteo and Scalectrix from what I've seen round here.

Marketing to a Stubborn player base: Existing players of the above games are very hard to shift to new products because of small player bases. And the usual reasoning is "I don't want to play Y because it's a copy of Z" before they try. This means my workload to get people to play the game almost doubles.

It's a shame really. Although I haven't bought Mantic stuff I do like their efforts. I truly think Mantic occupy that strange position where they are waiting to land an absolute winner of a product and ride it out to the "big-time" as it was. Until then, this isn't it.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Moonschwine said:


> I'm still a bit undecided about this. I have my friends over regularly to play new games and this may make a nice change to "Fantasy Dungeon Crawl" or "4x Space Empire management".
> 
> However the thing that bugs me is:
> 
> ...


One benefit mantic have though is their games are relatively quick (much shorter than the GW counterparts) which means you can try them in an evening and still have time left for something else if people don't enjoy them. 

If you're on the fence, I'd say get the game (get a pledge level with the extras and KS exclusives). Then when the game arrives just play a couple of games (maybe with proxies if you don't want to open the minis) and if you don't like it, sell it on the mantic forums, there's bound to be people who want to pledge but can't afford it at the moment.


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

The DB website is now live with some great humour  http://www.dreadball.com/

More options have been added to the KS. The plastic pitch looks nice.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

mattjgilbert said:


> The DB website is now live with some great humour  http://www.dreadball.com/
> 
> More options have been added to the KS. The plastic pitch looks nice.


Just had a looksee, 










Number 88 looks really cool and has some cool fluff.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Annoyingly I'm going to have to pick this up. Totally shouldn't as I need to save for house/car insurance and holiday, but, it's looking better and better as time goes by!


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

Jack is getting quite tempting now, but i can't really afford DV and this....decisions, decisions...


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

Lots of stretch goals hit. The Striker deal is looking better and better. Ronnie mentioned somewhere he's hoping it will contain over 80 models by the end (it's currently on 56 iirc).

New teams announced for the expansion once 200K is hit: Female Corp team, the Zz'or (first look at these as they are not out for warpath yet), Robots and an alien race called the Judwan.

Details here: http://quirkworthy.com/2012/09/08/dreadball-season-2-musings/

Jake also talks about "Ultimate DreadBall": http://quirkworthy.com/2012/09/09/ultimate-dreadball/


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## lord marcus (Nov 25, 2007)

Season two is in, and two more stretch goals added.


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Next stretch goal broken:










And the next one will be a new team of these guys, the Judwan:










I've no real interest in the game itself. But almost all the MVPs have looked awesome to me and made me want to get them. And the last few stretch goals have made me really excited for warpath. A Cthulhu race and the Judwan would certainly go a long way to making Warpath stand out from 40k. Hopefully we'll see a couple more new alien races that could be out into warpath before the end. I think when the warpath kickstarter goes up next year, that's when we'll really see the game branch away from GW and introduce a load on new races we've not seen in 40k.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Every time I come here to update something, I've found that someone else has already done so. :laugh: 

I'm really like the things being unlocked by the stretch goals. I rather liked the female Corporation team. I'd have to see more figures from the new races, but they're looking rather good.


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## mattjgilbert (Feb 28, 2007)

If anyone wants to read the rules to see what the game is all about, they are here: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e62f0c35454fa3ba687404d69/files/DreadBall_Core_Rules.1.pdf


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## Varakir (Sep 2, 2009)

I bought DV in the end, so don't really have the spare cash for the kickstarter. After reading all the articles and the rules, I think i'll be purchasing a set for xmas though!


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## imm0rtal reaper (Jul 15, 2008)

Judwan team is in:










Loving the look of these guys, of all the full teams so far, these are my favourites. Would like a mix of these and the John doe race.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Just a quick necro on this. I got a copy of Dreadball for Christmas and played a but of games now. 

It's a really slick game in the end. It feels a lot more fast and furious than Blood Bowl. With only 6 players a side you can't really cage etc and you have to be a lot more dynamic in your strategies with subs coming on off your bench etc. When we played once we knew the rules a game took about 45 mins all in. The mechanic for doing actions is really different but it works very well really. 

There are 4 races in the main rules

Corporation (Human) - As you'd expect generalists, even numbers of Guards, Jacks and Strikers. 

Marauders (Orcs) - They specialise is brutalising you, their guards hit super hard but luckily goblins aren't very good at scoring. 

Forge Father (Dwarfs) - As you'd expect super tough to put away, good at just grinding the game out. 

Veer-Myn (Skaven) - They're fast but have really poor vision so they are terrible at passing, catching and scoring. They specialise in just running up and stealing the ball out of your hands instead.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks for the write up, makes me really want to buy a set, I really wish I had the extra cash when the Kickstarter originally came out.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> Thanks for the write up, makes me really want to buy a set, I really wish I had the extra cash when the Kickstarter originally came out.


I could do a longer more involved write up if there was interest in it. 

It's like Ice Hockey but the referee only takes a passing interest in the game at best.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

It would be nice to see a write up Aramoro, probably belongs in product reviews.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=211


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would be interested for sure.


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## Grins1878 (May 10, 2010)

Same here, I was pretty gutted I couldn't afford it at the time!


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