# Starting WoC



## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

hey there.
I'm a long time Word Bearer and Space wolves player in 40k and am planning to start an army of Warriors of Chaos. (my die rolls always seem to end badly when not playing chaos, the gods must not be pleased.)

Anyway i digress, i have already picked up the army book and rulebook and am wondering what is a good starting points level to get to? and what units to get. I'm sure alot of people say this but i am mostly just interested in the warriors and knights, chosen etc. I dont really want the army to have marauders, (though im sure they can be good if played correctly as with most units) and am not really interested in things like giants, trolls and the ogres. 

So yeah any pointers would be great.
As a side note, are Chaos spawn actually useful in fantasy? in 40k they are next to useless so i was wondering if that caried over.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Start with warriors... and get more. An army with little besides warriors in it is still a pretty good army. Personally I've never regarded chosen that highly: they'll make just about the most powerful unit in the game if built/used right but they are also very easily avoided... which is exactly how I fight them.

1000pts is probablythe first milestone to work to, but 1500 and 2k are better for standard gaems, but with WoC you'll hit 2k incredibly quickly. By that time I think you should have a hellcannon and lord sorcerer to back up your warriors... though I might suggest you have another few options just to keep things different and interesting.


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## GiftofChaos1234 (Jan 27, 2009)

what do i get in terms of commanders? (bear in mind i need something alittle forgiving cause i've played island of blood once or twice -.-)

i'd love to have a daemon prince but i know that wont be viable until atleast 1500 points


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Daemon Princes are very expensive for what they do; I would suggest only taking one for fluff reasons.

As WoC characters are so expensive it is very hard to include more than one in a low level game; fortunately Warriors are brutal enough that you do not need Heroes to cut things up. Therefore I suggest a Sorcerer rather than Exalted Hero; I almost always include a mounted Sorcerer with Infernal Puppet as it gives good magic protection.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Yes to the advice above. One of the advantages WoC armies have is that their wizards can be mounted and have chaos armour a barded mount with chaos armour adds up to a 2+ armour save. Add a shield or dragonhelm and you then have a 1+ armour save on a wizard. Because the look out sir protection applies to same type and a Tzeentch wizard on a disc of tzeentch counts as cavarly, you can run the wizard in a unit of cav for protection and them fly it out when it is safe and makes sense to do so. Also, with the miscast consequences, the infernal puppet is an incredibly effective item for punishing miscasts because it allows you to move up or down on the miscast table by D3 the outcome on the roll. Pushing the miscast into the lowest numbers gives you a 50% chance that the wizard will blow itself up with no save and a very high chance (even if the wizard survives) of destroying a lot of models in the unit the wizard is in. Pushing the result into the highest part of the miscast table causes the wizard to lose D3 levels and D3 spells it knows, very handing in nerfing the wizard for the rest of the game. 

The biggest drawbacks with WoC armies are the very high costs per character (due in large part to them having the ability to take chaos marks and their chaos armour). Those costs are often justified but they really limit what heroes and lords you can play in your army at various points levels and the high cost of characters runs against a lot of the trend in 8th edition armies of trying to limit heroes to one general/lord and one BSB hero and maybe one other "utility" or wizard hero/lord and attempting to maximize points spent on larger units (either elite or units so large they are tough to kill and remain steadfast) and war machines/special items. 

Also, you will face a couple of disadvantages for your investment in some of the best models in the game. First, you really do not have much good shooting (hellcannon is really a super stone thrower that is great if it hits something, especially with low LD, but it can also die faster than I'd like and be unpredictable when it goes charging off or misfires). Second, with the exception of cav and monstrous infantry, you troops will march off at M4. Even with the new charge rules making it easier to make a longer charge, you will sometime find a rank and file heavy army taking a lot of magic and shooting damage before it can get into combat where it excels and the rules generally prevent targetting shooting and magic against unit in combat. That problem is compounded by the absence of a lot of troop options and the lack of a unit that can deploy as scouts. The one unit that can go after gunlines, skirmishers, and cav is the marauder cav. The rule kind of nerfed cav in 8th edition, but used correctly this cav can be effective in at least distracting, baiting and threatening war machines and such but don't expect a marauder cav unit to survive consistently. Third, your troops are vulernable to units with killing blow and great weapons and higher strength, like Daemons bloodletters, vampire grave guard, Tomb kings tomb guard and magic augmented units, and dark elf units blessed with killing blow by the cauldron of blood. A single hit on a chaos knight with killing blow and the knight dies absent a successful ward save (usually no ward save, 6+ ward with MoTz). 

Given your preferences, I'd suggest considering running two war shrines with Mark of Tzeentch (the mark boosts their ward save to 3+ so that they get a 4+ armour save and 3+ ward save and can, as monster troop type, keep up with the troops and provide flank protection and attack flanks). A unit of chaos knights led by an exalted hero/BSB with the right armour and stuff and with something having favour of the gods (allowing you to manipulate by +1 or -1 the gift of the gods blessing provided by the war shrines) can be very effective, especially if they get the #12 gift of stubborn and 4+ ward save. Then max out on warriors. 

If you do not want to go heavy magic, a couple of tricks are to make an exalted hero into a lvl 1 wizard by having him take the book of secrets, give him mark of tzeentch (+1 boost to ward save and +1 to all casting attempts) and the third eye of tzeentch (gift of chaos that can be separately used without using up the normal 50 points limit of common and army magic items to equip the character) to allow him to steal speals from an opposing wizard with view. Alternatively, take a lvl 2 with MoTz and third eye and something like infernal puppet and a cheap 6+ ward save (becomes 5+ ward with Motz and even better if in unit that gets the #12 gift of chaos blessing). 

Don't discount chaos chosen. They are expensive relative to warriors, but they get a free roll on the gift of chaos chart at the beginning of the battle which can be incredibly valuable if the right roll comes up. Alsoe, their champion has the ability to take favour of the gods to manipulate that dice roll. Getting an extra gift of chaos blessing in combination with two war shrines increases the chance that the unit with get the #12 (can keep forcing re-rolls on the chart by pushing the result into a gift the unit already has). 

I find that warriors are very competitive at 2500 points and above and become really good at 3000 points because at those levels they begin to be able to optimize their lord and hero combos and maximize the magic banners (some of the best in any army book) and marks of chaos on units and run effective combinations of units.


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