# So what do we know about Ahzek Ahriman?



## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

I know that he is NOT in service of Tzeentch and goes about the galaxy and raiding daemonic artifacts to gain psychic power but how large or a force does he have at his command? I believe I read somewhere that he took some Thousand Sons with him but I didn't know how much he did. Because Magnus cast him out to search to understand Tzeentch but it seems he did not go alone. 

So what forces are at his disposal? I can imagine a large number of cultists. But what about ships and tanks?

And do the cultists and TS marines follow Tzeentch or do they not worship Tzeentch/Chaos?

(I think that even though Ahriman dosen't recognize Chaos as his master he is just as much a pawn of Tzeentch)

And if you Had to measure in some degree of Ahriman's psychic power, how strong do you think he is? 
Apparently Tigurius is one of the most powerful SM psykers so who do you think would win in a fight? I have read that he can tap into the Hive Mind but if he can do that I imagine that Ahriman is just as or even stronger.

And on a final note, what if Ahriman HAD officially sided with tzeentch? How powerfull do you think he could be?


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)

The real question is, what knowledge did Ahriman gain from Jollana that "would bring the Imperium to it's knees..."

Most other information about Ahriman can be found in the Chaos Codex or http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ahriman


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Ahriman as a psyker is strong, but not on the level of psykers like Tigurius or Mephiston. His power is derived from a combination of knowledge and a lack of ethics. 

Whereas Tigurius would never use daemonic pacts to increase his power, Ahriman does exactly that. His is not restricted by notions of dogma or forbidden lore, but that does not necessarily mean he is some uber psyker. 

He commands a cult of like minded sorcerers and followers. He does not have an army at his disposal, but he is not without influence.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Androxine Vortex said:


> I know that he is NOT in service of Tzeentch


Ahriman thinks he isn't.

This quote relates to when Ahriman casts the rubric and was about to get owned by Magnus for what he had done

_Tzeentch itself spoke: "Magnus, you would destroy my pawns so readily?" then Magnus knew that his master had planned for all of this_




Serpion5 said:


> Ahriman as a psyker is strong, but not on the level of psykers like Tigurius or Mephiston. His power is derived from a combination of knowledge and a lack of ethics.


I'm pretty sure he's the strongest psyker in the material realm after the Emperor and potentially a reputable Farseer.

Tigurius couldn't even pierce a veil employed by the Necrons in Fall of Damnos and yet in other fluff was able to pierce the Tyranid Hive Mind which apparently is only something the Emperor could do without going insane.

Ahriman on the other managed to get into the Webway and if I am not mistaken actually entered the Black Library and stole something.

And due to Ahriman's long existence, he has learned all sorts of tricks and I would imagine obtained all sort of powers as well.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

No Malus that`s incorrect. Ahriman has not succeeded in entering the Black Library; in fact his primary goal seems to be exactly that. 

And Ahriman himself muses on the irony of his position during a ritual in DoW Tempest. He reflects upon how the others of his cabal look up to him for being so powerful, when in reality his greatest power is knowledge. His power has a source beyond his own ability, and Ahriman holds rank because he keeps that knowledge secret. 

Like I said, on his own he is not an exceptional psyker, at least not among the standards of well known psykers. 


And Tigurius? You`re comparing Tigurius to the Emperor? While I`m sure the Emperor could look into the Hive`s eye and not blink first, Tigurius did not have it easy as you seem to think. He glimpsed the commanding presence once, he did not overcome its will and he is not able to replicate such a feat on a whim. He saw the Hive Mind second hand through a tyranid warrior organism, certainly not directly.


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## demonictalkin56 (Jan 30, 2011)

even though he wants to enter the Black Library he would not be able to until he conquers the chaos within himself (cannot remember the source).


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Serpion5 said:


> No Malus that`s incorrect. Ahriman has not succeeded in entering the Black Library; in fact his primary goal seems to be exactly that.


Well he succeeded in illegally entering the Webway which is a feat itself.



Serpion5 said:


> And Ahriman himself muses on the irony of his position during a ritual in DoW Tempest. He reflects upon how the others of his cabal look up to him for being so powerful, when in reality his greatest power is knowledge. His power has a source beyond his own ability, and Ahriman holds rank because he keeps that knowledge secret.


He's very knowledgeable in forbidden lores and histories true but to think he is a lesser Psyker than Tigurious doesn't seem logical to me.



Serpion5 said:


> Like I said, on his own he is not an exceptional psyker, at least not among the standards of well known psykers.


The Rubric was an extremely potent spell, and it's just one example of his growing powers. What has Tigurious done? Glimpse the Hive Mind which is something only the Emperor apparently is capable of doing. 

I would say this particular accomplishment is something along the lines of Draigo taking a stroll through the Warp and carving initials in Daemon Primarchs's hearts



Serpion5 said:


> And Tigurius? You`re comparing Tigurius to the Emperor?


No I am not. I am saying that only someone as powerful as the Emperor could do something as glimpse the Hive Mind which is a psychic presence with power beyond imagining and come out unscathed and yet we have an Ultrasmurf doing so. To me this reeks of Calgar V.2.0 when he owned an Eldar Avatar.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Serpion5 said:


> Like I said, on his own he is not an exceptional psyker, at least not among the standards of well known psykers.


I disagree. If anything, Ahriman is up there in the upper echelons of mortal psykers/sorcerers. Pre-Heresy he was a powerful Psyker, one of the greatest of the entire Legion and bore Magnus' geneseed. Post-Heresy he is a pawn of Tzeentch and no doubt makes countless daemonic pacts (in which he gains power from the very essence of daemons). He also bears the _Book of Magnus_, the collected knowledge of most psychically adept Primarch (and something so full of knowledge shall we say, that a copy is said to be present in the Black Library itself). Also being a sorcerer rather than _just_ a psyker gives him an edge I would argue.

He was also the architect of a spell which felled an entire Legion and blanketed an entire world in devastating warp energy which made even daemons flee from its potency. Also apparently his _"knowledge of the Dark Arts is rivalled only by the Greater Daemons of his patron."_

So yeah, Ahriman is hardly _"not an exceptional psyker."_


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Whew when I saw 'Last post by Child of the Emperor' I thought I was going to get fluff schooled lol. And I was going to mention the Book of Magnus/Daemons ran from his rubric spell bits of fluff but I doubted the Lexicanum


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Sorry Serpion but I do have to disagree with you. He was an extremly powerfull psyker even before the Heresy and he continues to grow stronger. You say that he only gains power from daemonic artifacts. In a sense that is true, but he must have some sort of power to be able to control it. Also keep in mind that he hasn't become corrupted by Chaos (yes he is most likely a pawn of it but NOT corrupted) With that being said, we can already assume that his psychic abilities are very well mastered.

And as CotE said his single spell did do a lot of damage and was a pretty powerfull spell.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Not that this is particularly on-topic, but I've always liked Ahriman's depiction. He strikes a nice balance between; awesome, flawed, tragic and mysterious.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

In the DoW Omnibus, Ahriman makes it to what appears to be the main Harlequin planet off the Webway, but gets punked by the Eldar when he thinks he's going to the Black Library. During this story, he appears to have a squad of TS's with a Thunderhawk, but he could have more troops at his command back on the Planet of Sorcerers.

I think Ahriman is a victim of too many GW writers getting their hands on his juicy conflicted personality. In the DoW Omnibus (editorial comments about quality of story aside :suicide, Ahriman doesn't seem to be particularly potent as a psycher, considering a squad of Blood Ravens almost kick his and the TS squad's ass. I would think that a psycher of his otherwise noted caliber could just pull an Emperor on a non-psycher SM and blast them out of existence.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Well to be fair the piss poor writing of the DOW books needs to be considered. Perhaps he had a sick day, I get them :grin:. This guy byhimself punked like half SM chapter in the GK codex by leaving simple traps. Also GD of Tzeentch are top echelons of Psy/Sorc power. Ahriman rivals them. Tigerious and even Mephiston get punked bad by power standings alone. Ahriman in a Thousand Sons is the most powerful and gifted Psyker in Magnus Legion, and with Magnus big scary book of awsome he becomes 10 times that. In MOST other fluff hes the end all be all for Sorcerors.


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## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

And I'm not sure how much help he had but didn't he also summon a warp leviathan? Which by my understanding is one of the most powerful demons ever brought into the realm, could be mistaken though.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Cowlicker16 said:


> And I'm not sure how much help he had but didn't he also summon a warp leviathan? Which by my understanding is one of the most powerful demons ever brought into the realm, could be mistaken though.


I was just going to correct you and say the Leviathan has to do with the Tyranids but turns out I'm wrong.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Ahriman is the most powerful human psyker in the Galaxy. However, his powers are augmented by Sorcery. He cast the Rubric, the most powerful spell ever used by a Human Psyker. He travels through the galaxy, accumulating arcane knowledge to further his sorcerous abilities. 
@ Serpion- read A Thousand Sons. Ahriman was one of the foremost psykers in the Thousand Sons, a legion on supreme psykers. He was Magnus the Red's right hand... man (super human). No one can argue that he was not the most powerful psyker in the Imperium next to the Emperor. So it is, for lack of another description, utter bullshit, to say that Ahriman is "not an exceptional psyker".


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## High_Seraph (Aug 28, 2009)

Malcador was said to be the Second strongest psyker and the first to undergoe the soul binding ritual.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

*Ahirman is probably the most powerful human psyker in the galaxy.. i am willing to bet his psyker abilties are on par with magnus and maybe even the emperor*


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> *Ahirman is probably the most powerful human psyker in the galaxy.. i am willing to bet his psyker abilties are on par with magnus and maybe even the emperor*


You lose. I'd like my money now.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Emperorguard500 said:


> *Ahirman is probably the most powerful human psyker in the galaxy.. i am willing to bet his psyker abilties are on par with magnus and maybe even the emperor*


uhhh, I already talked about this in your post about Ahriman that sort of lead onto talking about Magnus so yeah...


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

NOPE! 

I`m standing my ground on this one. Badly written or not, BL is canon, so I will take Ahriman`s own words over yours, sorry. 

I am not doubting he is a very powerful psyker. But so is Tigurius. So is Eldrad. So is Mephiston. So is Stern. 

See my point? What I`m saying is Ahriman is special because of what he knows how to do to make himself special. That is all.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Though I normally find myself agreeing with Serpion5's opinions, I have to disagree with him here.

Ahriman is among the most powerful mortal psykers in the galaxy. I don't think there's any loyalist librarian who would be able to beat him. Even guys like Mephiston and Tigurius who could potentially be equal to him in terms of pure, raw psychic power don't have anywhere near the knowledge and experience he has. And then there's the matter of Ahriman boosting his powers via sorcery and daemonic pacts. 

Also, as Ahriman was considered to be the greatest psyker in Magnus's legion and the Thousand Sons were considered to have the most powerful librarians during the Great Crusade (probably the height of Imperial power), it would arguably have made Ahriman among the strongest (if not _the_ strongest) Space Marine librarians during the Great Crusade era. That, I think, is definitely saying something. And this isn't even considering the power boost he received upon arrival at the Planet of the Sorcerers or after the Rubric.

And as for DOW:Omnibus, I'm sorry but I'd always regard other BL books above that. I mean, in that same book Ahriman owns a Solitaire with a blast of psychic energy, even though (as far as I know) they're supposed to be immune to all that. Goto is a fluff butcher and worse even than Ward in my opinion. His writing is retarded. A few Blood Ravens fighting off Ahriman and his Prodigal Sons is ridiculous. It's like Gabriel Angelos in the first book killing a freakin' chaos lord with thousands of years of xp in like 3 seconds.


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## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Ahriman has also been around since before the heresy, even with the fucked up time in the EoT it probably gives him quite a few years on his loyalist counterparts.

PS: Solitaire's are said to be soulless and as such they're not immune to psychic powers that cause physical injury, but rather the ones that target their 'soul', or lack of.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> NOPE!
> 
> I`m standing my ground on this one. Badly written or not, BL is canon, so I will take Ahriman`s own words over yours, sorry.
> 
> ...


Alright then :grin:, in a Thosaund Sons Ahriman is the Head Librarian and Magnus himself tells him hes the most powerful Psyker in the Legion. So Im going to take the WAY MORE recent HH Novels canon over your piss poor older DoW canon. Paper Rock Scissors, GO!:wink:


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> Alright then :grin:, in a Thosaund Sons Ahriman is the Head Librarian and Magnus himself tells him hes the most powerful Psyker in the Legion. So Im going to take the WAY MORE recent HH Novels canon over your piss poor older DoW canon. Paper Rock Scissors, GO!:wink:


:goodpost: 

Is Goto even writing for BL anymore? He sucks major ass. I disregard every piece of fluff he has ever written. Ahriman was the heir to Magnus the Red before he cast the Rubric, which ultimately saved the Legion. The most powerful Space Marine psyker at a time of enormously powerful Psykers. Slightly more powerful than a suped up ultramarine, supported by Mat Ward, or some Blood Angel who overcame the Red Thirst, also supported by Mat Ward. Ahriman has power to rival the Lords of Change, the embodiments of Tzeentch, the lord of sorcery. 
If Ahriman and Tigurius went head to head in a Psychic Battle, Tigurius, while he could probably hold his own, would be dwarfed by Ahriman's 10000 years of knowledge of Sorcery. With the Book of Magnus at his disposal, he could ravage Tigurius. While Tigurius has been fighting battles for maybe 500 years, Ahriman has been collecting knowledge to augment his power for 10000 years. I think the more powerful psyker is quite obvious.


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## forkmaster (Jan 2, 2010)

Then we have to look in definiting terms. As I know it the Emperor and Malcador are born as simple humans with strong powers. Magnus is created in a lab and Ahriman is evolved also in a lab from Magnus genes.  So in natural respects, I would say Malcador is the strongest _natural-born_ human alive at least.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

I would like tp point out that most of the guys refuting me have referenced Ahriman`s knowledge, which is exactly the point I was trying to make. 

I already acknowledged he was a powerful psyker. Then I stated that what made him greater was his sorcerous _knowledge_. Is there a misunderstanding?


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

mcmuffin said:


> :goodpost:
> 
> Is Goto even writing for BL anymore? He sucks major ass. I disregard every piece of fluff he has ever written. Ahriman was the heir to Magnus the Red before he cast the Rubric, which ultimately saved the Legion. The most powerful Space Marine psyker at a time of enormously powerful Psykers. Slightly more powerful than a suped up ultramarine, supported by Mat Ward, or some Blood Angel who overcame the Red Thirst, also supported by Mat Ward. Ahriman has power to rival the Lords of Change, the embodiments of Tzeentch, the lord of sorcery.
> If Ahriman and Tigurius went head to head in a Psychic Battle, Tigurius, while he could probably hold his own, would be dwarfed by Ahriman's 10000 years of knowledge of Sorcery. With the Book of Magnus at his disposal, he could ravage Tigurius. While Tigurius has been fighting battles for maybe 500 years, Ahriman has been collecting knowledge to augment his power for 10000 years. I think the more powerful psyker is quite obvious.


Thats a great post. I agree with you. But I thought that Magnus was furious at Ahriman for what he had done and banished him out of rage? (at least that was what i was told)



forkmaster said:


> Then we have to look in definiting terms. As I know it the Emperor and Malcador are born as simple humans with strong powers. Magnus is created in a lab and Ahriman is evolved also in a lab from Magnus genes.  So in natural respects, I would say Malcador is the strongest _natural-born_ human alive at least.


Yeah Malcador was one of the strongest psykers as well. He made his ultimate sacrifice by sitting on the Golden Throne while the E fought Horus so in a sense he was able to keep up with the Emperor's psychinc might for awhile.


But what no one has answered yet are Ahriman's followers. Are they associated with Tzeentch or not? And who is all at his disposal?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Serpion5 said:


> I would like tp point out that most of the guys refuting me have referenced Ahriman`s knowledge, which is exactly the point I was trying to make.
> 
> I already acknowledged he was a powerful psyker. Then I stated that what made him greater was his sorcerous _knowledge_. Is there a misunderstanding?


It was your previous post that suggest he wasnt the baddest cause what he said in the DOW books. When infact hes right under Magnus... who is right under the Emp... Then add the Sorcery power to that and BAM.



Androxine Vortex said:


> Thats a great post. I agree with you. But I thought that Magnus was furious at Ahriman for what he had done and banished him out of rage? (at least that was what i was told)
> 
> But what no one has answered yet are Ahriman's followers. Are they associated with Tzeentch or not? And who is all at his disposal?


As far as I read it Magnus was upset at Shriman, but Tzeentch I guess ultimatly made the desciosion on what would happen to him.

Ahrimans follwers are all gifted Psykers and Cultist followers that he gathers. In the fluff of the recent dex it mentions he (or the TS Legion, I just cant make sense of the wording) steal followers and recruits from one another. So his Floowers are Psykers of measure and I guess cultist or whatever he can get his hands on. Daemons seem to be the stable force he uses. I guess TS can be added to his small force. However its generally a small force. Every Fluff hes in is a in and out type of scenario.


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## Androxine Vortex (Jan 20, 2010)

Warlock in Training said:


> It was your previous post that suggest he wasnt the baddest cause what he said in the DOW books. When infact hes right under Magnus... who is right under the Emp... Then add the Sorcery power to that and BAM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


kinda what i figured. I just wonder i f he allows his followers to worship Tzeentch? I don't think it would matter because he would just manipulate them just as he manipulates Chaos.


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