# Hellcannons



## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I've been looking around here and in the Tactics section, but I couldn't find a thread about Hellcannons (if there was one then lol at me ). I came across one post that said they sucked, but it would be unfair to call a unit crap just because one person said it is.
So I've been playing around with Mark of Chaos and when I first heard the Hellcannon shoot and hit, I fell in love with it. The ethereal, eldritch blast that sends the cannonball (or whatever) toward the walls of the weak men of the south, the sound of the impact, like the hammer of the gods beating on the puny defences of mortals... Then I wondered if they are good in WHFB too or is it just me facing reality after having set myself up for disappointment? In the game they had a bit of an issue with hitting what they were meant to, but after a while the Gods seemed to favour my actions and often they hit running units and boy did they fly. 

In short: Hellcannon - yay or nay? And why?


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's really no different on the tabletop. They're obnoxiously effective...when they hit. The problem with hellcannons (and really, any stone thrower) is that they're hideously inaccurate. And that's assuming they shoot in a given turn-- there's a chance (albeit a relatively small one-- it's about 16%) that it'll just decide to go crazy instead. Admittedly, the flip side of that is that the hellcannon is actually absurdly dangerous in close combat, so if it ends up in combat, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

When you think about it, though, a war machine like the hellcannon rolls the artillery dice to see if it misfires. So right there, you've got a one in six chance of a problem, on top of the 16% chance that it decides it's going to be running instead of shooting. THEN, the thing scatters. When you consider that it scatters at least two inches, and the template itself is only three inches in diameter, you've only got a one in six shot of a direct hit. Now, when you do hit something, it's downright devastating, and often can take a unit out of the game with the panic test that follows. But the real trick is getting the thing to hit. 

It's open to debate as to whether or not the somewhat low chance of the hellcannon hitting its target is worth its price tag in points. For the same cost, you can bring another unit of Warriors, which are significantly more reliable, although they do fill a different role on the table. When you consider that Chaos doesn't have much in the way of shooting though, playing to the strength of the army in having the best close combat units in the game isn't so bad.

However, all metagaming aside, if you like the hellcannon, whether because you think it's cool (and it is), you like the model (and who doesn't?), you like the feel of it mechanically on the tabletop, or whatever other criteria you can come up with-- by all means, bring it in your army. Find how to make what you like work for you-- that's what the gaming end of the hobby is really all about at the end of the day, I think.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

I use one since the model is great. Like hours said, the thing just isn't that consistent, which is something people look for in a "good" unit. However, when it hits, it hits hard, when it gets into combat, it's a monster, and I like the fact that my warmachine can fight off flanking light cav all on it's own. People also like to complain about the points, but I figure you pay a premium to perform a task (i.e. shooting) in an army that is not supposed to. Even when the hellcannon fails to make it's points back, it still generally forces my opponent to spread their forces out more to avoid getting pie platted too hard. I find this helpful since I play a warrior heavy list and am usually far outnumbered. 

Leave it home for a competitive game, but it's a fun unit that will at least entertain you, and if you're lucky it'll break free and run right into enemy lines.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it really depend on the type of army your fighting against, Small elite forces like elves, chaos and deamons its too hard to hit anything Horde armies like Skaven, Empire O&G and some Lizardmen builds it will kill loads 
Its should also be ok against most static armies like Dwarven or Empire gunlines as the units tend not to move to much so you get plenty of goes to range your shots but fast armies it will be a lot harder to hit much.
Perversly the armies that its not so good against will suffer the most if it does actually hit them as the cost per model is a great deal higher than your average horde trooper.
So really its a trade off between killing lots of cheap troops that your warriors and knights will destroy anyway or maybe taking out 1 unit from a game that could possibly damage your troops but leaving smoking craters everywhere else.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

So you're saying that its good against carpets of troops, but when you actually have to hit something it probably won't work? How about large(r) targets? 
So far they sound like a nice if rather pricey means to 1, give you a shooting phase 2, handle/soften masses of troops that could potentially defeat your troops in SCR 3, have a trap for outflanking units 4, draw away some fire from your troops to the Hellcannon, which is also a trap if you think about it. Is that correct or am I still in the dark?


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats pretty much it 66.6% of the time it will scatter between 2 and 10 inches in a random direction added in the fact that you need to guess how far away each unit is every time you fire (which is a lot easier if they stand still)
When faced with massive blocks of troops who's only hope of winning is scr you'll probably mess up a good few ranks (especially if you get a direct hit even if its not the unit you aimed at ) Which could turn a combat or 2 in your favour.
I wouldn't aim to much at large targets as any scatter over 4 inches means you'll probably miss but if you aim at a unit near it theres always the chance of an accidental hit.


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> So you're saying that its good against carpets of troops, but when you actually have to hit something it probably won't work? How about large(r) targets?


That's true of all stonethrower type weapons. Why I like it in chaos is that due to being outnumbered, horde armies can gives you some trouble, and that's when the hellcannon is at it's best. Versus smaller elite armies, your chaos warriors are better than their special troops, so you are at an advantage and can afford the non-optimalness of the hellcannon. 

Unless you are crazy good at guessing distances and get really lucky by not scattering so you can drop the template center on their head, large targets are probably the worst use of a stonethrower type weapon, as you only get one would per base you hit.


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## forestreverie (Sep 10, 2009)

my usual opponent plays chaos and always takes a hellcannon.
addmittedly in most games he hopes for misfires just to see it charge towards my lines, which is always great fun, but it also does a lot of damage...when it hits.
I wasn't too keen on them before i saw one being played, but now if i got a chaos army I'd definatley get one. 
lends some hard firepower to the Chaos army too, which cant be a bad thing (except that it uses up points which could be spent on more combat troops!)

on another note, the Hellcannon also wins the award for "Model which would hurt most if thrown at your face"


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Even when the hellcannon fails to make it's points back, it still generally forces my opponent to spread their forces out more to avoid getting pie platted too hard. I find this helpful since I play a warrior heavy list and am usually far outnumbered.


Sums it up nicely I think. I have started to use one myself and while it can be unpredictable it can also hand you the game. One of my primary opponents is a dwarf gunline player and I continually lose to him thanks to all the shooting. By the time my army slogs across the table, even the knights and fast movers, they have been damaged far too much to be effective, especially against full units with top scr. And the organ gun is a ridiculous weapon for that, doing more damage than anything else in his army. 

The first time I took the hellcannon I got a lucky shot off on the organ gun that destroyed it in the first turn and sent the crew fleeing. That alone made the game FAR more even and allowed my knights to get into combat mostly unwounded. From there the hellcannon proceeded to target the blocks of dwarfs and remove ranks, caused one to flee for a turn before rallying, and generally caused insane amounts of havoc. In the end, that single model handed me the game and was my mvp for sure. Since then my games with it have either been like that or saw the thing charging the enemy and doing gross damage in combat. I will never play without it again.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Sounds nice so far. 

Is it a good idea to leave your units close to it (say, wizards and the like if I feel like making a gunline (well, cannon-line-with-shiny-staves lol)), or should I run away from it as if it were an exam period?  (I hate exam periods, they're the bane of all who live, especially me)

Another thing that bugs me is the combination of units. Since these guns will take a heavy toll on my point limit, it seems to me that it would be best to pair them up with cheap(ish) Tzeentchian Sorcerers for an intensive magic phase and Slaaneshi Warriors for protection and of course the usual puppy screen. But then I rely too much on my Hellcannons actually doing something and I'm lacking a serious plan "B", which is never a good thing. 
Perhaps adding Wulfrik with a nice big unit of Marauders might tip the scales in my favour. Imagine: Hellcannons firing from the other end of the table, Warriors in the middle with Sorcerers turning your men to ash and bunnies, and then suddenly a large unit of Marauders start knocking on the heads of your wizards/archers/gunners. This setup is of course lacking the iron balls of the Knights, but thanks to the chaos it causes it might just work. But that is all theory spawned by the "I don't want to do exams" panic.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I recently have decided to make up a list with hellcannons, the idea is to use two hellcannons in a single list, I have found from past experience that the effectiveness of one artillery piece is a quarter of two of them used in tandem.

I'm horribly accurate with my guesses, worst case I'm 1-2 inches off, sometimes more but very rarely, I frequently guess on top of monsters and big things and wipe them out.

To me the hellcannon is a must have, as wraithlord said, my biggest downside to the khornate list/warriors etc is that I get bombed with cannons/bolts etc and barely make it to the enemy, same with magic. The hellcannon will enable me to give my guys covering fire and as a large target it doesn't even need to be placed on a hill to give good fire to whatever target it wants.

Sorry for the thredomancy, but I felt the need to chirp up about the hellcannon, I think it's really useful...


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