# How much is enough?



## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

In a standard 1500-2000 point game how much Anti Tank is enough? Or if its easier, How much is too little? I guess I would rather be on the heavy side dealing with Eldar/Tau Mech armies. I play BA and feel that I would have a hard time dealing with these list. 

So how much should any army bring to the table? 

How much do you normally bring?

Does anyone have a formula (points vs anit tank)? ie. for every 500 points bring X amount of Anti Tank. :biggrin:

I know the post is somewhat vague, but its nice hear peoples thoughst on this issue. Thanks


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

If you know you're fighting mech anyhting anti tank is a must so for every tank bring 1.5 anti tank-weapon


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## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

For SM players when they fix Assault Cannons many are going to realise how short on anti-tank they are (had to get that in). 

I'll say 2 anti-tank per tank. If you're SM for example it can depend on Power Fists / Chain Fists / Melta-bombs you have also.


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## Red Orc (Jun 14, 2007)

"The Road of Excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom"

or, less poetically,

"You never know what's Enough, until you know what's _more than_ Enough".

My ratio is "am I more worried about hordes than tanks? Take more anti-horde: am I more worried about tanks than hordes? Take more anti-tank" until the two balance out.

Then I take a few of each out of the list and put some more missile launchers in, coz they can do both.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

Over eight years of playing, I've found a couple things. First, tanks rarely make up the majority of your opponent's points, so it doesn't necessarily make sense to bring the majority of your points to combat them. Second, there's very little you can't accomplish by being tactically flexible with your units. Rather than gear them towards specific tasks, making sure the unit has something, even if it's just krak grenades, to deal with armour if you need them to. I rarely take anti tank weapons in my armies purely for the task of dealing with armour-- the exception is that I'm quite fond of the Predator Annihilator with heavy bolter sponsons, since it's mobile. I lean pretty heavily on meltaguns. A lot of people think of meltas as anti-tank weapons, and I suppose they technically are, but S8 AP1 works just fine against...well...anything. When you're packing boltguns these days, the 12'' range isn't quite what I'd call inhibitive, and if you're playing Blood Angels, you're wanting to get stuck in anyway so range (or lack thereof) shouldn't be a major consideration. Now that I really think about it, I lean more heavily on meltaguns than I do on almost any other non-standard-issue weapon in the game, purely because you can do anything you need with it. 

Similarly, I tend to take missile launchers or heavy bolters in infantry squads that have heavy weapons. Missiles are quite flexible--don't write off frag missiles completely, because you can get a fair few number of models with 'em, and you'd be surprised what they do to Terminators. More reliable to shoot a terminator squad with a frag missile than a krak missile, oddly enough. Now, you're probably asking why I mentioned the heavy bolter. Against skimmers, you're better off with higher numbers of shots that only glance at best anyway. You ultimately end up with more chances to do damage with a heavy bolter against something like a land speeder or the like than you are with a lascannon. Yes, generally speaking, you'll use the heavy bolter against enemy infantry-- that's what it's really there for-- but you'd be surprised what you can do with it in a pinch. In my opinion, heavy bolters are the most under-points heavy weapons in the game-- five points in Codex: Space Marines. They're more appropriately priced in the Angel Codecies, I think, since they make such a mess of anything not in power armour. And let's be honest... there's a hell of a lot out there that doesn't have a 3+ armor save. Best weapon for fighting Tau to boot, I think... kills 'em on 2's, and outranges pulse rifles.


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## Terminator (Nov 17, 2007)

It depends on many factors, with a tournament army in mind. One must consider that every point for anti-tank is one less for something else. It's fine to field nine lascannons, until you go against a hormagaunt or ork horde. It also depends on your type of weapons and their effectiveness, and how they are placed, are they mobile etc. 

For marines, assault cannons and missile launchers are great, versatile weapons - but to specialize, melta and lascannons are better. Then you have to consider balancing those out with anti-infantry. It depends if units are dedicated tank killers or mixed units simply capable of taking out a tank. And it depends on your ballistic skill.

For my current tournament 1850 ultramarines, I take: 2 twin-linked lascannons, 4 missile launchers and 2 assault cannons. All the squads have a powerfist, the termies have 2 chainfists and the assault squad has meltabombs. (On the flip side, there's 5 heavy bolters, plasma guns and flamers along with many almighty bolters to help with infantry).

I'm not sure about a formula: I'd say for 1500-2000 points, having 6-8 units with versatile weapons (like missiles) or an equivalent 3-4 units with specialized anti-tank weapons (multi-meltas, las/ML dreads, etc) for BS4 armies like marines. For different BS and other armies, this formula would obviously have to be adjusted. That's just my guess.


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## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks for the advise guys, I run BA and utilize the Melta Gun quite a bit, actually all my Tac and Vet Squads have them, along with a few A-Bikes with MM. I field 6 Meltas, 4 Multi-Meltas, a Baal and Vindicator. Plus my Sarge and Vets sport Power Fists. I have no other Heavy Weapon, however all my squads are mobile Rhinos/Jump Packs. Its worked Okay so far, but I really have to be aggressive. C&C is very welcomed...


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## Vashtek (Nov 2, 2007)

There is no easy answer to this. Bear in mind if you are heavily close combat orientated/ very resilient or are very manoevrable you can dodge the tanks so will need less guns. 

It depends completely on your list. You also need to judge the meta game- e.g. codex orks has just been released- you may want to pack heavy boltersor you know eldar are going to be popular- you want autocannons etc etc.


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## Frodo (Nov 13, 2007)

Plaing T'au I outfit all of my battlesuits with missile pods which can take light vehicles as well as infantry. same with railheads. the pulse rifle is also surprisingly effective against light tanks.


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## Hicks (Nov 20, 2007)

Anti-tank weapons are also great against heavy infantry, anti-infantry weapons are useless against tanks. With that in mind, I always split my heavy weapons 50/50 between anti-tank and anti-infantry, if I have more points to spare I had more anti-tank. My special weapons and ordinance are always chosen as anti-heavy infantry.


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## Terminator (Nov 17, 2007)

Anyone else have their loadout for a tournament force?


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## Chambers (Nov 30, 2007)

I am not sure that there is a correct answer that fits all armies across the game. 
For example in my Mech Eldar list at 1500 points I have nine units and all nine can deal with light armor (AV10+) and five can deal with heavy armor (AV 13+). Where as in my 1500 point Death Guard List I have seven units and of those only four have any real chance of dealing with armor of any kind. 

To take a stab at your question; I think the minimum number of AT weapons should be around one plus one for every five hundred points. But again that is just a stab in the dark and not any kind of magic number, it just seems to work for me.


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## The Red Thirst (Dec 11, 2007)

I like to ridiculously overpower all of my squads as BA and I try to include at least 1 ultra heavy weapon per squad (assault squad plasma pistols, tactical lascannon e.t.c)


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## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

this ones a 2000 pt BA list:

The beauty of the new DA/BA dexes is that all the marine squads already get krak and frag grenades as standard! Many old school marine players can forget this in the heat of the moment...



*Even if you discounted krak grenades, all 10 of my units can deal with tanks on their own. Over half of these more than one way. If need be, I can split into combat squads and field 15 units all having some AT ability.* 

Even my Attack Bikes and speeders are fast and survivable enough to get bolter/hvy bolter shots on AV10 rear armour...

Yesterday my Predator shot it's TL Lascannon turret at its counterpart's side armour. This shot stunned it. I proceeded to glance three times with the "defensive" heavy bolters and killed that tank dead twice over. 

I am more of a "peace thru superior firepower" type of guy...

I field two full sized dev squads, one with maxed out lascannons, the other with missile launchers.

Why so much? Anti-tank is also anti-MEQ!

I pad this with a Predator packing TL Lascannon and Heavy Bolters.

I show some love to the horde by packing an additional 3 heavy bolters on my attack bikes, along with a Landspeeder with Hvy Flamer/Hvy Bolter.

Add to this 3 full size tac squads with power fists, melta guns, frag and kraks...all mounted in rhinos that have the potential to travel 18" a turn.

Too little anti-horde, you say?

When you have rhinos, and use terrain intelligently, you control the fight against hordes and have a very good chance of getting that all important rapid-fire.The best anti-horde weapon in the 40K universe? 

A rapid-firing bolter held by a marine getting in rapid-fire range first!

Don't forget the tank shock and template weapon combos as well. 


A few other AT surprises in there...but you get the gist.


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