# Cracking Mechanized Eldar.



## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

So undoubtedly Eldars tanks can be irritating to penetrate at times. With their falcons and fire prisms having holo fields (rolling 2 dice for any glance/pens and selecting the lowest), and their serpents having the F and S armor cutting all STR hits down to 8, and not letting anything roll 2 dice against them (i.e melta)...it makes their armor 12 very ..deceiving to say the least. 

I play normal codex marines, and have had 4 games against him so far, and were even in games as far as wins go. But any of my wins have been very close where as when he wins I manage to down almost all his troops, but his tanks and their 'Eldar Trickery' combined with bad dice rolling on hits and those damn holo feilds all managed to stay alive. And either be able to turbo boost turn 5-6 to contest or their sheer point value outweighs what I have left. 

Now...heres what Ive tried to bust him with so far.

Attack Bike Squads 3 strong with 3 multi-meltas.

Devastator squads 6-8 strong armed with 4-5 ML's (one game I fielded two of these squads...10ML's in a 1250 pt game. Didn't bust a single tank.)

Assault Terminator groups all armed with Thunder Hammers and Storm shields. Yes I know these are foot sloggers, but; his first few games his tactic was to use his speed to be at me 2nd turn with 1-2 blade storms followed up by screaming laughing harlequins that reaped death with their rending all over the place. So when his tanks sped onto my side they could assault back armor. 

Scout Bike squads , sarg with Power fist. Yes..scout, figured sarg has same stat line as a normal marine aside from the save, and now I'd be able to outflank turn 2-3 to pop fire prisms

Predators - I got tired of missing las cannon and ML shots and tossed in 2 of these, worked ok if I got lucky rolls but usually the wave serpents cutting its str from 10 to 8, and the falcons/prisms making me reroll all pen/glances and taking the lowest or one pred getting popped or weapon destroyed turn 1-2 would trump them. 

Ironclad Dreads - Lets just say they went for a good jog, (damn skimmers hopping buildings and this and that) and ended up killing troops instead. They had fun...but didn't serve their purpose. 

I'm not really too sure what to field, tanks are usually a bad idea, that's why I haven't even bothered to try a predator with 3 lascannons because his fire dragons would pop it with ease. Any suggestions how to deal with this in a small pt game? 1000-1500? 

usually he doesn't have a single unit not in a vehicle, aside from maybe rangers / pathfinders with a 2+ cover save that's usually fortuned...sigh Or some harlies with a farseer...so you can't range them, hitting them with fast attack or a rhino full of marines ready to rapid fire works well...but now he just puts them in a falcon..

:ireful2:


**Quick Edit.

I also want to bring up something a bit off topic from the original post. A few of the games I tried using a Librarian as an HQ as an attempt to counter some of that nasty eldar psychic powers. Mainly...doom,guide,fortune. So any spell he casts, its my LD+D6 vs his LD+D6. If I beat his total, spell is denied. 

Heres a few concerns, the hood is great don't get me wrong, but he puts runes of warding on his farseer, every. game. Forcing me to roll 3d6 to pass my psychic tests, which pretty much makes me never want to cast a single spell unless Its life or death anyways. Now that libbies have only 2 wounds since the new dex, and have no option for iron halo, the chances of rolling double 5's on the terminator invuln save to prevent that perils of the warp wound makes it not even worth taking. 

So I feel like I'm wasting half the use of my libby. Now If I can down the farseer turn 2-3 great but the thing is...HES IN A DARN TANK TOO, so that's doubtful taking my first issue into account. Not to mention he loves to bust out the dreaded seer counsel in bigger games.


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Marines do have trouble vs mech eldar Marines have trouble with eldar in general. They don't have the volume of shots they need to pop their 4+ cover save (re-rollable with fortune) 12 AV tanks.

One tactic I've found that works well is to turtle. This may seem a bad idea versus templates, but his wave serpents picking off your troops one by one is worse. Don't forget, ANY damage result vs a prism means it's useless in the following phase. He also won't be able to dump the obligatory two squads of bladestorming dire avengers next to a squad and wipe it because your units are well supported and he'll lose his only troops.

One thing that may work is to run your attack bikes as single bikes. This may seem silly, but if you turbo boost first turn, you have a 3 3+ cover, t5, 2w models that he HAS to kill. 24" first turn plus 12" second should get you in shooting range of his tanks. Hopefully behind. This is a very cheap and very effective anti tank technique. However it doesn't work well in KP games.

Surprisingly, I've had success with LRC/LRRs. Their assault cannon is deceptively good versus eldar tanks. Each shot has an 8/9 chance of hitting, so you have a good chance of hitting with all of them. With rending, 6's auto pen. Combined with it's MM, it has a good chance of killing something.

Another tactic I like is to run TL-Lascannon dreadnoughts, and sit them next to my devastators. This means his assault troops won't be able to assault your devastators without getting charged by a dread they can't kill.

Couple things I haven't tried, but could work: Deep striking multimelta Land Speeders could potentially drop behind his tanks and utterly wipe the floor with them. Vanguard vets armed with melta bombs could also work. Remember, his shield doesn't work in combat, although you'd need 6's to hit.

Don't even bother with librarians. His farseers are way too good vs psychers.

That's all I can think of right now. Mech eldar is very hard for marines, and if you figure it out you'll be a better player than most. I wish you luck my friend. I also started out playing against eldar with my marines, and I know how frustrating it can be.

Hope this helps.


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## tastytaste (Mar 31, 2009)

I really hate eldar contesting on the last turns. I use assault cannon dreds all the time seems to be the best way to get them down. Also I will shoot at them just to make them stop moving then follow up with an assault troop which no longer are hitting on 6s. Really that has been the best way of killing them in CC for me. Of course getting them to stop moving is the hard part.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

I think some Assault marines with melta bombs could help you out. Make sure they are full squads and keep them cheap. Here is why they could help:

Firstly, the 12" move can help them counteract the redleploying Eldar bikes and transports. Secondly melta bombs will make mincemeat of their tanks, yes if your oponnent has half a brain youl will only hit on 6s, you will have 10 attacks, your gonna get som hits in at least (ps, go for the transports if you can). Thirdly, if you get the charge on the Harlequins they aren't _as_ scary as you might think.

2 squads like this should set you well. Another thing to think about might be Chronus in a predator or better yet a Land Raider (normal version). Mount your Terminators in the land raider and move towards the enemy deployment zone. Power of the machine spirit means you can move 12" and still fire a TL Lascannon (I'm not sure if you can use Chronus' BS for this though). Once you get to his baseline unload the Terminators and start chopping up his Fire Prism then start wailing on his other tanks with Ballistic skill 5 TL Lascannons with the Land Raider. This is a bit dependant on the Eldar player not realisng how much mobility he has but even so. it could still be fun to watch.

If you take anything from this just remember, assault marines...


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Assault marines can't take melta bombs any more. Vanguard vets can however. LRs can work, but remember: they're only AV12 to their S9 lascannons and fire dragons rape LRs. Hell, the exarch is modeled STANDING on a LR track.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

englanda said:


> Hell, the exarch is modeled STANDING on a LR track.


Lulz



> Assault marines can't take melta bombs any more. Vanguard vets can however. LRs can work, but remember: they're only AV12 to their S9 lascannons and fire dragons rape LRs.


Shows I hardly use assualt squads doesnt it  Vangaurds are a tad pricey though so maybe just stick to one squad of those and another RAS to go hunting clowns?


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

Chronus gives the vehicle BS5 which the POTMS would use as well.

Also if you want your Libby to survive perils give him a Stormshield which will make taking that 3 D6 test a little less worrysome.

Holofields deffinantly make taking down a Falcon a crap shoot usually but using Melta weapons should improve your chances due to the AP1.

As for Waveserpents get them in assault since their not protected on the rear and hell just take pock shots with Missile Launchers since everything else seems to be a waste and I usually loose mine to ML more often than not and if your opponent is silly enough to present their rear armour (not usually likely) capitalise on it, also on anouther note deepstriking Landspeeders with Multi-Melta behind them could be effective as well though on the chancy side due to misshap.

Anyways my 2 bits.


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Chronus in a LR is a waste of points. TL BS4 is a 8/9 chance to hit or ~89%. TL BS5 is a 35/36 chance to hit or ~97%. You're paying 70 points for an extra hit 8% of the time. If you fire both lascannons every turn for 7 turns that's 14 shots. TL BS4 gets you 12.5 hits, TL BS5 gets you 13.5. You're paying 70 points for 1 extra hit if the game goes a full 7 turns and you fire every single turn. For that cost you could field a Razorback with a TL Lascannon getting you 6 hits for the 1 you get with Chronus.

Please correct my math if I messed up, it's rather late here (or early, depending how you look at it).


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

He also prevents shaken and stunned though I admit he is pricey I do like to use him especially in a Landraider Crusader but thats just a personal prefrence.


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Ferik said:


> He also prevents shaken and stunned though I admit he is pricey I do like to use him especially in a Landraider Crusader but thats just a personal prefrence.


Good point! Still, I don't like him. Extra armor is way cheaper and you can still always fire one weapon.


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## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks for the quick replys. It seems in general that no matter what list I pull out its going to be a tough fight against mech'd Eldar, but that's not always a bad thing :grin: 

I'm going to try and hit a few things that you guys said but obviously can't hit them all. Someone suggested to just shoot them enough to stop them then hit them up with some assault troops, maybe a power fist or two. Only thing about that is his serpents always can at least move, they ignore that on the dmg table.

The LR idea could work as well, only thing is alot of our games right now are only at 1,000 pts. Which I can't really fit one in that, if I did, with my luck It would get popped 2nd turn by fire dragons due to lack of pts to back it up.

Someone also mentioned hunting clowns with assault squads...Not a good Idea in my opinion. The clowns initiative is massive compared to assault marines. They'd attack first, and with a just a few rending hits take your squad down completly or past half making its attacks back miniscule, and next turn theyd strike first, again, and finish you.

Best bet I've found so far for Harlies, is actually just Tactical Marines. Rhino them up, get in rapid fire range, which conveniently enough is usually good enough to see them despite the Shadowseers efforts, and unleash. Unless they managed to get fortuned, their 5+ invuln save just wont cut it. Even with fortune they'll fail the majority of saves.

I cant really find an assault group in the SM codex to deal with Harlies. Even the legendary assault terminators fall to harlies due to lack of initiative and rending cutting right through their 2+ armor save. A couple storm shields may keep you alive around longer, but the harlies usually prevail. Its much worse if he tosses them in a tank as well.

Over all I think its just a tough matchup not just for marines, but for this pt value. 1,000 pt games are just too tiny for an elite army to get enough in to deal with those tanks and still have enough troop to hold obj ect.


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Well maybe play bigger games : P


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## MJayC50 (Oct 30, 2007)

i play asw chaos marines and have similar problems after my dp drops dead.

you dont even need assault marines to take down these pesky pointy eared fly-by-nights - i have had quite a bit of success just using my frag grenades that come with the marine (both naughty and nice)(the marines that is - chaos and loyal). still need a bit of luck and choose ur targets carefully - good vs prisms coz they cant move 12 and shoot - good when u stun something so you auto hit - remember ur going against back armour so 4s to glance 5's to pen - then u got ur fist aswell - never leave home without one!

if your looking for a unit to take down his tanks u aint gonna find one - do the math - they suck alot of fire and how many times have you rolled 5,1 ... 6,1... or my fav 1,1 - and b4 that lottery you got to hit and beat the armour! makes me grumble:ireful2:

what you need to do is stay in your rhino's (yes never leave these in the lock up either) then wait for him to not move his fast stuff far enuf to get a good shot in (u may have to bait him into it) or bomb it 12 each turn to his prisms - it will get crowded in there with eldar soo id harry them with small stuff while big stuff stuns em! if u throw enough shit some of it is bound to stick 

and i quote "bet ur bag of dice didnt see this one coming you pointy eared freak...":threaten: :sarcastichand:


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Drop pod full of meltagun/cobmi-melta sternguard is pretty well set to destroy a tank or two. Split them into combat squads and land them behind 2 skimmers that are close together. Much death ensues. However, this option is about as expensive as the two tanks they kill. However, 10 marines with the special sternguard ammo aren't anything to laugh at.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Just had a thought to help win in objective games (mainly)

Take a couple of scout squads in a storm (arm the storm with a MM and shotguns and cloaks for the scouts). Use the outflank rule to come on later in the game and contest those objectives while the Storms pop some tanks.

This idea is a bit fragile but then so are the Eldar. Kinda fighting fire with fire.

Any thoughts?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Culler said:


> Drop pod full of meltagun/cobmi-melta sternguard is pretty well set to destroy a tank or two. Split them into combat squads and land them behind 2 skimmers that are close together. Much death ensues. However, this option is about as expensive as the two tanks they kill. However, 10 marines with the special sternguard ammo aren't anything to laugh at.


I play 6 Grav Tanks in my 2k army, and these are the only thing I fear.
I'd like to know how many you regularly face, especially given that a fully tooled Harlie squad is a LOT of points...


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

TheKingElessar said:


> I play 6 Grav Tanks in my 2k army, and these are the only thing I fear.
> I'd like to know how many you regularly face, especially given that a fully tooled Harlie squad is a LOT of points...


Me? Usually 1 drop pod with sternguard and 2 with dreads. I realize you're asking how many skimmers I usually face with drop pod sternguard but I don't play marines. I only know it's an effective tactic because it usually claims a hammerhead unless I can surround my tanks with troops (yay, kroot!).

My Tau fight skimmers with railgun fire and missile pods and occasionally deepstriking stealth suits behind a tank to rock it with str 5 ap 5 fire to the rear. My Orks fight them by making a trap with my bikers and walking mobs then using powerklaws, snikrot kommandos, and lootas to knock them down.


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## OrdoMalleus (Apr 24, 2009)

Sorry... this relates back to earlier in the thread about the pesky farseer

Have you tried a culexus assasin? you`d need either a Witchhunter or daemonhunter inquistor in your force, but considering he is an anti-Pysker assasin he hasnt really got an equal at taking out farseers.

Since he already comes with Psyk-out grenades meaning all he has do is leadership against the farseer (with his reduced leadership) and the farseer loses the difference in wounds.
You then get the chance to do exactly the same thing is CC with "soul drain", and more importantly he an also target the farseer with a (slightly over kill) AP1 weapon.

Did i mention he makes all the pyskers around hims ld 7 ? 

If you start him off inflitrating, hes almost certinly going to kill the farseer, let alone making it a lot easier for your pysic hood to work.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

As an Eldar player theres three things that bugger my game play up against marines:

1) Librarians: Now I know I take RoWard and RoWit but, when he gets null zone off on my harlies/Dire Avengers with shimmer shield (all be it in combat) or my Warlocks, my Eldar drop like flies, thats if he gets it off though, it could be worth a shot.

2) Land Speeders: they can match the Serpents and such in speed, and consequently usually carry the same aresenal as a dreadnought, those in to the rear armour I would say is your best bet at poppin one of the tanks.

3) Termies: Of course packing 2 Fire prisms, or more they arent much of an issue really but the rest of the Eldar arsenal is limited in AP 2 fire really, I should say affordable AP2 fire. A couple of termies with thunder hammers should do it, cant seem them not doin it really, The land raider would certainly get you there faster

Just my two cents.

Peace out:victory:


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## Eric.West (Sep 16, 2008)

In our 1,000 pt games he usually has 2 serpents and 1 falcon or fire prism. I do admit nullzone on a seer counsel and harlies would be great, but like you stated, very hard to cast. 

Someone mentioned thunderhammer wielding termies again, but this just isn't an option for me in 1,000 pts, 200 pts to have them footslog it and never catch that tank anyway, or 500 pts to toss them in a raider and be 50% of my pts spent on 1 unit which is more then likely going to fall to the clowns.

OrdoMalleus you mentiond combining sisters of battle I think? I strictly play codex marines now, I may look into trying a split list like that, but first I don't know the exact rules, I know they can share some SM stuff but not all of it , e.i thunderfire cannons ect.

I think another issue is because we have been playing annihilation, so he has been able to just send his entire force at me head on. If we played some objective games it would split the board up and it would be easier to hit that back armor with having units on either side of the bored appose to a war of attrition head on. 

Things like dropping sternguard fully armed with meltas behind the vehicle, then if the vehicle turns around you speed at its other side with multi melta attack bikes, could work. Risky, expensive, but could work. 

Anyways we'll be having a game Thurseday of this week. I'll let you guys know how it went.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Hmm... at 1,000 points it's a tough one - sounds like he's got way more points than that TBH - those fire dragons aren't cheap, neither are Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent, or fully tooled out Falcons - maybe double check his arithmetic? 

Any case, I think you should either a) play him at his own game or b) play static gunline.

For a) Mechanise your army - easy to do and fairly cheap with marines.
Keep your ten-man tactical squads cheap with the free Flamer, chuck them in extra-armoured Rhino's so you should be able to move towards him each turn at least 12"
Fill up with Predators with lascannons and any spare points on a Razorback w/Lascannon for your Captain.

Your tanks should be able to at least stun/shake his support tanks for most of the game, or blow them up if you're lucky - after one can't fire next turn, ignore it and focus on damaging another.

Your Marines can kill Eldar tanks in CC; Krak Grenades will do nicely, but don't get them out until you can either kill one of his squads outright after they've disembarked, or charge a tank that's not moved/moved 6". 

For b) - fill up with your free Missile Launchers, get a Master of the Forge as an HQ, fill up with Devastators with Missiles - not much point taking anything else against Eldar as after you've done in his tanks, switch to Frag!

My mate sometimes plays Mech Eldar and I don't have too many problems with them using my Dark Angels, then again, he's not that experienced with them either.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Eric.West said:


> Anyways we'll be having a game Thurseday of this week. I'll let you guys know how it went.


First of all, is he actively meta gaming, or does he come in with a list and army already selected?

Secondly, those harlequins he takes? Absolute garbage. Ever since fifth edition came around, you now have a nasty way of nerfing them that's entirely legal.

Let's say your termies get charged by five harlequins, each with kisses.

They attack 4 times a piece on the charge right(It's been so long...), and they strike first. Of course they have the shadowseer and other eldar bullshittery, but this is for the rending wounds.

So 20 attacks 13 hits 2 rends 2 wounds(But you're doomed. As always. Eldar bullshittery.)2 more wounds, 1 more rend.


Ouch, according to old rules you're rolling 3 five ups and 4 normal wounds. Yikes. But this is Fifth edition.

What you do is you first take a rending wound on the captain of the squad, than allocate four normal wounds onto the fists, than you wrap back around and take ANOTHER rending wound on the captain. And you pass out the last rend to come poor sap in the squad.
The captain will most likely die twice due to rending(Thus saving a terminator) and than you roll the four normal wounds(feh.) and an additional rend(Which you may save). In this way, you'll save yourself alot of headache.

And if he has power weapons striking at the same initiative? All the better. You put all the invul saves on the squad, and all the normal saves on the captain(They'll bite it, but he'll keep swinging)

Rending got ALOT worse this edition and their isn't too much to fear from the flying effing circus. Fire dragons, banshees, eldrad, and prisms are still a pain to deal with, but if you can deal with the fire dragons and keep glancing the prisms, he can't really effectively deal with dreadnoughts(Especially ironclads).

Run one of those into his harlequins and he can kiss the squad goodbye(They can ONLY ever glance the damn thing) And he'll merrily crunch anywhere from 2-3 of them a turn.

Lascannons still aren't a bad idea. You have the ability to touch anything across the field, and you'll annhilate any farseer foolish enough to step out of his Phil Kelly-protected behemoth tank with but a single well-placed shot.

Not to mention, even if it is reduced to s8, you're still rolling 4's to glance and 5's to pen.

Multimelta drop-podding dreads do well(Drop, shoot, scare away everything nearbye that isn't a fire dragon.)

And honestly, like said before, turtle up. Eldar are fantastic at picking off weak units in an army, but if you amass your entire force to meet their hit and run units, you'll easily sweep them aside.


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## Juiceypoop (Jun 5, 2008)

I still think you should consider assault marines, in fact, I think you should assault his veichles with any space marine squad any chance you get, since space marines have krak grenades, and all assault attacks are resolved against the rear armour. 

A 10 man assault squad with a power fist would make a decent eldar tank hunting unit.


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## englanda (Dec 2, 2008)

Juiceypoop said:


> I still think you should consider assault marines, in fact, I think you should assault his veichles with any space marine squad any chance you get, since space marines have krak grenades, and all assault attacks are resolved against the rear armour.
> 
> A 10 man assault squad with a power fist would make a decent eldar tank hunting unit.


10 krak grenade attacks: ~1.66 hits. 4 to glance. .83 damage rolls. It's really not consistent. You might get 1 or 2 damage rolls, you might get 0.

Melta anything is the way to go. Melta bikes, melta dreads, melta land speeders (or storms), melta marines. As long as they can get behind the tanks, you're golden. Remember, even if you don't get in melta range or fire against the front armor, it's still a s8 hit.


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## kain350 (Mar 12, 2009)

i dont know how this would work but for that fire prism use a deep strike with dreads to get behind it. although, it has the holo-field and you have to re-roll you could still get some damage in. it all depends on the luck of your dice rolls. also dreads back up by marines or something will do some great damage behind his units although you cant assault you can still get shots in.


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