# Paint changes



## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

I'm sure people won't be surprised by this,
but towards the end of this year / beginning of next all citadel paints will move over to the foundation style pots.

I'm unaware of any colours disappearing as yet and hopefully none will do so.
If I find out anything however i'll add it


Not the most interesting news i'll admit


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## Wolfblade (Mar 18, 2008)

Maybe not the most interesting of news, but a welcome one. I hate the look of the old pots, they're so clunky! The foundation pots look so much better, and help my desk look a little tidier. One less thing to get nagged for


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

hope fully this will mean a better quality of standard paint rather than the french shite they currently sell, the foundation and washes are made in china(along with a growing number of other GW products) and i think they are brill


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

Going to miss the fact that the old paint pots could be stacked.


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## SoupyC (Jun 24, 2008)

asianavatar said:


> Going to miss the fact that the old paint pots could be stacked.


Same  I hate the rounded pots.


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## newt_e (Jan 1, 2008)

As long as they get the lids right, I'm not too fussed. A number of my foundation paints tend to drip paint over the hinge and then down the back of the paint pot.


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## subtlejoe (Sep 23, 2008)

newt_e said:


> As long as they get the lids right, I'm not too fussed. A number of my foundation paints tend to drip paint over the hinge and then down the back of the paint pot.


Same is a real pain and a real waste aswell, at least with the current one it sits on the lip happily.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I never found the foundation paints to do that. It was always the normal paints that never dripped properly because the lip was not long enough.


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## mcmuffin (Mar 1, 2009)

i actually prefer the old pots. they are less likely to drip and also are less likely to tip over


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## when in doubt shoot! (Oct 19, 2008)

Seems like another bad decision by GW in my opinion, I really hope they don't go through with this, because at the moment, all my paints are stacked in one area, about 4 or 5 high. Anyone got an idea where I can put 40+ paints instead? :laugh:


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## VictorLazarus (Mar 5, 2009)

I find the new pots seem to leak more as the lids don't seem to seal as tight. I'm sure they'll loose a few of the old paints (because they do every now and then, I really miss bilious green that I used for my eldar) but I'm mostly using foundations and new washes now because they work better.

MVL.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Ah well, still got me old Paint Pots from the Screw Lids  Best way to do it.

Anyone thought GW could help the environment by having a paint mixer and utilising old pots? Also helps people to make their own mixes in bulk, and would be a real selling point, even over the better quality paints such as Vallejo and Reaper (I personally mix Reaper and GW, depending on the focus of the model), mainly because my skill doesn't deserve vallejo.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

VictorLazarus said:


> I really miss bilious green that I used for my eldar)


I have at least one bilious green floating around, pm me if you want it


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Well, i like the old pots, you can make towers with it, so it takes less room. However, the new ones are smaller...but i think the problem is not the pots, but the paints. I dont know if the "new" paints are going to have the same quality as the foundation ones, and if we will be able to use them with the Citadel Spray gun.
Does anyone know if you can put Boltgun Metal in a Spray gun? If yes, my next purchase at GW will be a paint flammer and a can of propelant: painting IW would be sooooooooooooo easy with it!



bitsandkits said:


> hope fully this will mean a better quality of standard paint rather than the french shite they currently sell


WHAT?!?!?!?!? :angry: French shit?!?!?!? :ireful2: 
Remember me to avoid buying thing on you website
...english basterd

(just joking, dont think it's personnal)


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Bindi Baji said:


> ...Not the most interesting news i'll admit


Uhm youre kidding right? 
This is probably the single best idea they have had for their paints since the old hexagonformed pots with white soft-plastic lids. Most of my paints are still from the good old "citadel colour paintset" and the "ork and eldar paintset". IE the round pots with white lids and they still work, unlike most of the retarded screwcork ones they plunged out afterwardsuke:

Allthough I have surredered. I buy VGC when I need new paints nowdays, Ive grown tired of "reviving" paints in shitty pots that will die again and again:suicide:


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Dies Irae said:


> Well, i like the old pots, you can make towers with it, so it takes less room. However, the new ones are smaller...but i think the problem is not the pots, but the paints. I dont know if the "new" paints are going to have the same quality as the foundation ones, and if we will be able to use them with the Citadel Spray gun.
> Does anyone know if you can put Boltgun Metal in a Spray gun? If yes, my next purchase at GW will be a paint flammer and a can of propelant: painting IW would be sooooooooooooo easy with it!
> 
> 
> ...


sorry my comment wasn't meant to be a slur on the french people.

bolt gun metal might split if its thinned down for a spray gun because its shite


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

The Spray gun is shite, get a paache airbrush for shooting metals if you have to spend money, and then you can actually use it on other things as well. Looks at Damned Fists models in the painting section, those are all with a Paasche.

The old Hexagon bottles if I remember correctly were french paint as well, just a different company. I think they were made by Coat D'arms. I would use Hexagon paints even over Vallejo, which is my normal choice of paint.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

*picks up the most awesome collection of working old paint left in existence*

the original citadel paint in round pots with red/white labels dosent say where it was made
same with the round pots with red/yellow/black labels

the hexagonal ones were made in the uk according to the stickers.

im keeping my old pots when they run out now as every single gw foundation i have runs out the back of the pot unless i take 5 mins to open them.:ireful2:

cant say im a fan of the new washes, i just got some and its far too thin, the older washes were stronger and i just thinned them for a lighter coat. 

from the new range of gw paint iv noticed a significant number of the colours i have here are missing. 

all the coloured metallics, some of the brighter colours, and iv just been told badmoon yellow has gone as well.
any one noticed the older pots are 17.5ml (.62fl oz) and the new pots are 12ml (0.4fl oz) but are the same price :angry::aggressive:

any one know if there is a equivalence chart for the other companies (ie reaper and vallejo) also if there is a good online store to pick them up from as i have no idea of anywhere around Swansea (south wales) 

its a shame that gw see fit to make a veteran go looking elsewhere for these things as i have 140 paint pots here. thats a significant bit of revenue at £2.25 each. (over £300)

[edited for poor spelling - hey its late here ok.]


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## lostonexxx (May 15, 2009)

The new foundation pots are terrible for leaking. I have decanted some of mine into other empty pots as well.
When you say the old washes were better, did you mean the inks or the oollllddd washes with the blue tops?
I was comparing thraka green with the old green wash a couple of weeks ago, and the old green was awful in comparison. The old washes were very shiny. As for the new ones, I only use badab black and devlan mud, and I flippin love em.
I hope they don't change the pots though. I really REALLY hate the new foundation pots.
P.s. would also love to hear of an online supllier of vallejo paint other than ebay.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

im going back to when they had black tops and came in round pots with names like Hybrid purple, vortex blue and lava orange. 
i know they are slightly different in terms of use as there inks rather than washes and could be used to tint paints which is what gives them more of a shine but still they dont do any brighter washes at all now.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

GW really hasn't figured out paint yet, and it's a little disturbing. Part of the reason that Reaper and Vallejo have better product is because they package it in eyedroppers, which not only helps you measure for your mixes more precisely, but it keeps it in a relatively air-tight environment, so you don't lose paint to drying. I've had some of my Reaper Master Series paints for about six years now, and they're still good. 

Citadel paint isn't necessarily bad. It's not great... it's really about on par with Apple Barrel and things of that tier, but it's usable. I think if they were to package them in eyedroppers so you could stop the loss of half the pot to spillage and drying out due to a poor container, they'd actually have competitive product for serious painters to consider. 

The simple fact that nobody else makes Foundation-style paint with absurdly high pigment count is the only reason GW sells it-- I bet if Reaper or Vallejo decided to put stuff like that out, GW wouldn't sell nearly as many. I know I wouldn't use the stuff if Reaper or Vallejo had something similar; and I only bother with GW's washes because they're convenient and consistent from pot to pot-- it's a time saver, but those are all ultimately things you can make with any regular paint and some water. 

Something else GW really ought to do is expand their actual range of regular paint. If you'll notice, Reaper and Vallejo both follow a rough "triad" model-- Reaper actually labels their paints as such. They make a base color, a shade color, and a highlight (or several variations of shade and highlight for a base color, in Vallejo's case). Games Workshop doesn't have a lot of mid-tone colors, and it's a point that hurts their sales, I think. If GW made a mid-tone red (Red Gore is rather dark, and Blood Red is very bright-- there's no mid tone between the two, and Scab Red is almost brown-- not even a shade so much as a base tone for things like leather and rich browns) they'd be on the right track-- all of the "main" colors-- blue, red, green, yellow, flesh tones, and bone all could use a triad-like approach rather than a shade and a highlight.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm mostly afraid they'll remove certain paint lines, the loss of flesh wash is annoying, the GW staff even dug through their collection and gave me theirs as they realised how sucky it was for me .

I wish GW wouldn't abandon paints all the time or change them, of all of their products, paints NEED to be consistant, large armies take months and often years for some people to paint, so changes in paints available is something which I find frustrating, I don't want to mix up a colour when I have 140 skeletons to paint .

Although, to add to that I have found GW paints superior in many aspects to other brands, except that they dry out too fast, not sure if that's bad design or intentional. Their containers are also not UV resistant which means they will dry up inside the pot. The old hexagonal-tall pots from yonks ago were excellent, never dried out either the ones that were made in the UK.

The paints made in the UK were actually made in Aussie and then packaged in the UK I found out the other day from a friend who worked there and are still available apparently, may be an alternative for people wishing to buy older citadel paints.....I'll try and find the name out at the games club sometime soon if anyone is interested...


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

The Son of Horus said:


> GW really hasn't figured out paint yet, and it's a little disturbing. Part of the reason that Reaper and Vallejo have better product is because they package it in eyedroppers, which not only helps you measure for your mixes more precisely, but it keeps it in a relatively air-tight environment, so you don't lose paint to drying. I've had some of my Reaper Master Series paints for about six years now, and they're still good.
> 
> Citadel paint isn't necessarily bad. It's not great... it's really about on par with Apple Barrel and things of that tier, but it's usable. I think if they were to package them in eyedroppers so you could stop the loss of half the pot to spillage and drying out due to a poor container, they'd actually have competitive product for serious painters to consider.
> 
> ...


Oh, GW used to do that...heh, they used to have roughly 3 pots per colour and shades that matched each colour, they've scaled back their paint range, least it seems that way and now there's far less variety, especially in 'fringe' colours, like orange/pink etc.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

they have drastically scaled back the paint range they have dropped everything bar there core colour chart, and looking at the prices and colour ranges of there competitors it seems that it has only been done to maximize profit.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

NagashKhemmler said:


> I'm mostly afraid they'll remove certain paint lines, the loss of flesh wash is annoying


indeed, the loss of flesh wash and tentacle pink (and much further back ork flesh!) was a pain, luckily I had enough notice to get some spare before they disappeared completely


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## VictorLazarus (Mar 5, 2009)

Most of the 'how to paint' models tutorials in 'White Dwarf' have most of the colours being mixed (which is sort of how I get bilious green now using scorpion green with some white and yellow) but it does show a little lack of colours. The new devlan mud wash work on many things though. (flesh, skulls, armour etc)

MVL.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

ok, iv just discovered this http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/full_line.php in a sticky in the painting section, should help out anone looking to jump ship at this latest news about gw paint.


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## lostonexxx (May 15, 2009)

Bookmarked that links, cheers angels, thats very helpful. :victory:


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

GW has never really been a leader in paint. I think since it's the first thing you're exposed to as a new hobbyist you tend to think it's great at first. Thanks to the internet learning about different options out there has really helped alot of people out.

Son of Horus. Vallejo paints are all foundation paints in respect to comparing them to GW. Their pigment levels are much higher and therefore much better...

The news of changing pots is ridiculous. They are smaller than the current ones, they leak out of the back. God, closing the pot, lifting it up only to have huge amounts of paints on my fingers is pretty annoying, especially when the paint ends up on my models because I didn't know it had leaked out of the back! CURSE YOU GW!!! Thank god I really only use a smaller selection of them now. Denehb Stone is probably my mainstay Foundation!


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## Poomba (May 21, 2008)

The Son of Horus said:


> GW really hasn't figured out paint yet, and it's a little disturbing. Part of the reason that Reaper and Vallejo have better product is because they package it in eyedroppers, which not only helps you measure for your mixes more precisely, but it keeps it in a relatively air-tight environment, so you don't lose paint to drying. I've had some of my Reaper Master Series paints for about six years now, and they're still good.
> 
> Citadel paint isn't necessarily bad. It's not great... it's really about on par with Apple Barrel and things of that tier, but it's usable. I think if they were to package them in eyedroppers so you could stop the loss of half the pot to spillage and drying out due to a poor container, they'd actually have competitive product for serious painters to consider.
> 
> ...


Completely agree - i am phasing out all my GW paints except for Foundation and washes. I remember hearing down the grape vine that some 3rd party did a test on the Val and GW paints - Val had more pigment than GW (Less foundation) but GW metallics had a larger amount of some compound that makes dry brishing easier - or something like that. I have also heard about a new Aussie company getting into mini paint - im going to buy some and give it a go. Big 36ml eye dropper style paints with a great range (All GW paints colours have be replicated plus some more). I will leava thread when i get my hands on some.

http://www.matisse.com.au/pages/miniscolour.htm


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## Wolfblade (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm surprised to hear that so many people dislike the foundation pots because of dripping. I've just checked all my pots, and not a single one of them has paint dripped down the back.

Having said that, I only use the foundation paints and washes, so the rest of the range changing pots doesn't concern me. I've never liked stacking paints, I like to see where each paint is, without having to rummage through others on top of them. I guess that's another advantage Vallejo has; though you can't stack them, they're tall and thin, so they take up less space *and* you can see every pot.

As for the quality of the older paints, I don't really remember as there was a ten year painting gap for me. What I do remember was that the old white top pots sucked for keeping paint in. Seemed like every time you opened one, you'd have to peel a dried crescent of paint from the rim.

Anyway, as I originally stated, on a purely aesthetic level I welcome the change.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

as for the paint keeping in the older pots about 50% of my stuff is over 7 years old and still good.


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## magician847 (Jan 4, 2007)

The pot that is in current use was supposed to be designed so the paint wouldn't fall on the rim, but the thing is that if the holder thing was long enough to do that, it wouldnt close, and they arent going to make a bigger pot, thats silly *sarcasm*, and so they left it as it is now, leaky and stupid. Im glad we will get a pot that works, even though I might switch to Vajello or something 

M


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

i have had problems with the foundation paints leaking out the back, as well as the hinge breaking fairly easily, which is annoying.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Angels Of Flame said:


> im keeping my old pots when they run out...
> 
> any one noticed the older pots are 17.5ml (.62fl oz) and the new pots are 12ml (0.4fl oz) but are the same price :angry::aggressive:
> 
> any one know if there is a equivalence chart for the other companies (ie reaper and vallejo) also if there is a good online store to pick them up from as i have no idea of anywhere around Swansea (south wales)


I have "refilled" my old good paintpots since they introduced the fucked up screwcork sollution. The best way to go by far. Totally with you there!

Old round ones had 20mm(0.68 oz) so they were actually even better back then. Money talks, even in this buisness:sarcastichand:

About comparison chart: Someone, which I believe was Djinn, linked a comparison guide somewhere on the forum. Search around a bit and I bet youll find it. As for stores Im 100% convinced that there are lots of stores in GB that will MO sell VGC or equivalent. Give bitsandkits a shout, he(she?) even frequents the site here:wink:


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

Not a bad idea and if this is so then all the paints can be poured into the spray gun and things will be ALLOT Easier-Would really help my marines with their Turqoise colours rather then mixing paints that can be used for the spray gun)


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

if there was a local place that sold Vallejo i'd switch over most of my paints to them. Sadly it just isn't worth the hassle and shipping cost to order them online.


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

MaidenManiac said:


> I have "refilled" my old good paintpots since they introduced the fucked up screwcork sollution. The best way to go by far. Totally with you there!
> 
> Old round ones had 20mm(0.68 oz) so they were actually even better back then. Money talks, even in this buisness:sarcastichand:
> 
> About comparison chart: Someone, which I believe was Djinn, linked a comparison guide somewhere on the forum. Search around a bit and I bet youll find it. As for stores Im 100% convinced that there are lots of stores in GB that will MO sell VGC or equivalent. Give bitsandkits a shout, he(she?) even frequents the site here:wink:


well spotted, i actually had to pick one of the old pots up to check, and yep 20ml.

i think bits and kits would have a nice niche market there if they do start selling them. reeper master series would be good as far as i can see theres hardly anyone in the uk doing them.

as for vallejo iv looked around a bit and it seems 17ml comes to about the same price with a few places doing 20 pots of your choice for £35.

:clapping:


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

i tried vallego paints and really didn't like them. They are very thin and don't cover very well.


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

I have to say I can't grasp why Vallejo or Reaper are so popular. I can see certain shades being useful if you lack them in your own collection, but I do prefer the GW paints. The Foundation paints are excellent I find, so if they're all going that way, great. I do miss some of the depth of colour from the washes - the inks were great IMO.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

I like Vallejo because they don't dry out so fast in the pot and they mix well in my experience. Having said that my favourite paints are the old GW white tops from the 90s. I still have a selection that are perfectly good more than a decade after I bought them.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't know what most of you mean. Nobody ever said that the _paint_ was changing - just the _paint pots_. I think that some of you are taking this to mean that every paint will become Foundation paint, with extra pigment. As far as I can see, this is wrong.

Anyways, I welcome the change. It'll take up less space now.


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## your master (Jun 14, 2008)

my experience like others is that they drip like hell but i dont care as long as they dont stop doing paints altogether:biggrin:


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## Shadow Hawk (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm not too worried about this, I use vajello anyway. The foundation pots are rubbish, they should stick to the old pots. Why change them?


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

The new pots are: 
1) Made in China (cheaper workforce). 
2) They are smaller, but they hold the same amount, thus saving a little bit of money in production. 
3) Because they look better.

Question answered.


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

i wouldn't say they look better, i prefer the look of the current pots to the foundation ones. plus they are stackable.


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## Judas Masias (Jun 5, 2008)

I wish GW would go back to useing the old paint pots from 2nd edition. I still have some of the old pots some of witch were never opened and are still good after all of these years. It's like they say " They don't make'em like they used to "


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

it makes sense that the paint will also change along with the pots, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have the pots produced in china and the paint made in France then have someone fill the pots.And going on that logic i expect the new range to be better than the old range because i think the foundation paints and washes are brilliant,will be interested in how the metallic's turn out because they are considered by many as the best liquid metallics available. on the flip side though the current range of GW tools and brushes which are produced in china are in my opinion rubbish.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

But then what would be the point in Foundation paints? Notice, they are still made by CITADEL.

Bear in mind guys, the Foundation paints were made so that they could be a basecoat for the proper paints, i.e. red and white. If all of the paints become "Foundation paints" then none of them will act as a foundation for the others (d'you realise the meaning behind the name now?).

Understand?


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## Wolfblade (Mar 18, 2008)

No body mentioned anything about all paints becoming foundation paints.

B&K was pointing out that the latest efforts were very good, and that a new range of paints to the same quality would be welcomed.

Understand?


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> But then what would be the point in Foundation paints? Notice, they are still made by CITADEL.
> 
> Bear in mind guys, the Foundation paints were made so that they could be a basecoat for the proper paints, i.e. red and white. If all of the paints become "Foundation paints" then none of them will act as a foundation for the others (d'you realise the meaning behind the name now?).
> 
> Understand?


Ahhh now i understand, i thought foundation paints were invented because GW had created a generation of people who primed everything black and didnt realize that primers could come in other colours that made it possible for you to not have to use 25 coats of red to paint your blood angels. Plus we all know pro painters use white primer :grin:


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Kitsunex said:


> if there was a local place that sold Vallejo i'd switch over most of my paints to them. Sadly it just isn't worth the hassle and shipping cost to order them online.


www.thewarstore.com Order more the 4 or 5 and you break even on the shipping. And there is no hassle with them. 



jigplums said:


> i tried vallego paints and really didn't like them. They are very thin and don't cover very well.


Sounds like you need to shake them more. the worst thing about RMS, VGC and GMC is they have such a pigment content you have to shake the hell out of them to get the pigment through the entire bottle.



Cato Sicarius said:


> But then what would be the point in Foundation paints? Notice, they are still made by CITADEL.
> 
> Bear in mind guys, the Foundation paints were made so that they could be a basecoat for the proper paints, i.e. red and white. If all of the paints become "Foundation paints" then none of them will act as a foundation for the others (d'you realise the meaning behind the name now?).
> 
> Understand?


While the "Foundation" name does imply they are for bascoating they are just normal Acrylic paints with a very high pigment content. I am also willing to guess that they have flow improver in them as well to keep the pigment from clumping, now I know there is something else in the paint as well, maybe a different (thinner) acrylic medium as well since there is a drastic difference in smell and taste of the paint.

Overall, as I have said before:
Wash, Base, Metalics: GW
Normal Paints, Inks, Washes (including armor and flesh): P3
Normal Paints: VGC and VMC

That is the break down of my 200 bottles of paints. Never used RMS but I have heard some great things about them and will probably order a couple triads when I do a reorder on my VMC.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevertheless, according to GW themselves, they are for basecoats, never mind what most people do. Mainly because most people prefer using black primer, as it is actually easier to prime with black than white.


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## Grand Master Z (May 18, 2009)

I find myself as more of a gamer and modeller. I could care less what the paint pots look like as long as they work!


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Cato Sicarius said:


> Nevertheless, according to GW themselves, they are for basecoats


according to one of the original release statements for the foundation range:

"Foundation paints have been created to apply a single application of paint over any undercoat"


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## Fire Lord (Feb 15, 2009)

Your doing it wrong if your tasting your paint!:grin:


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## HorusReborn (Nov 19, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> Nevertheless, according to GW themselves, they are for basecoats, never mind what most people do. Mainly because most people prefer using black primer, as it is actually easier to prime with black than white.


Hmm didn't know there was a rule on using a paint a specific way! Guess I'm painting all wrong! Also though black primer comes out of a can the same way as white does, so don't know how it is harder to prime with white?? You the kind of guy that lets GW tell you how to use your paints? Foundaitions are a good foundation as a base, and for mixing... nothing could be more wrong in your comment!


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## Angels Of Flame (Feb 22, 2009)

iv been using solar orange with about 50% badmoon yellow and a touch of yellow ink as a top coat for my angels, and a white primer. 
and i agree on the taste, im doing it wrong.


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## Cato Sicarius (Feb 21, 2008)

I never said it was wrong to use them as normal paints, I'm simply saying that basecoats are what they're there for. heck, GW don't actually care, I've seen employees using them as normal paints, but nevertheless, the fact remains.


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Cato Sicarius said:


> I never said it was wrong to use them as normal paints, I'm simply saying that basecoats are what they're there for. heck, GW don't actually care, I've seen employees using them as normal paints, but nevertheless, the fact remains.


calm down dear its only foundation paint :biggrin:

To be honest they do a great job at covering black primer, could do with GW expanding the range a bit so that more paints do the same which will help alot of people paint armies faster which is always a good thing.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

Cato Sicarius said:


> I'm simply saying that basecoats are what they're there for.


they were designed to apply an initial coat over the base coat, 
here is the web page for foundation paints


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...t1290200&prodId=prod1095433&rootCatGameStyle=


"Specially formulated to complement the existing Citadel Colour and Citadel Washes ranges, the Foundation Paints have been designed to provide great coverage, creating a solid block of colour with one application *over any undercoat*.".

there is no reason you can't use them for an undercoat if you wish, but that wasn't the reason behind them being released


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## weasly (Jun 18, 2008)

newt_e said:


> As long as they get the lids right, I'm not too fussed. A number of my foundation paints tend to drip paint over the hinge and then down the back of the paint pot.


Agreed so much I couldn't agree more. It loses a lot of paint this way. Another annoying point is that paint seems to cake up the side of the top of the pot. Then when you try to get paint out it goes all over the side of the brush. 

Lol heres an interesting point. Did anyone ever find this: When the paint pot was virtually finished (ie only scrapings left over lol), screw the whole lid off and in the outer ring would be quite a bit of paint, enough normally to finish the job you were doing.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

To be honest, I think we could do with 5 or 6 more Foundations...although I personally have found the pots more prone to leak that the current main range. I have at least one pot from every generation, even the screw-tops (although I'm not sure any of those paints still work...) and the 90's ones, and the previous round white lids with no info, are the best by far. Screw tops are excellent for storing my own mixes, albeit temporarily.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Black is a rubish color to primer with, lighter colors in the long run are a better color to undercoat. Half the paints out there, even foundations, will have to have miltiple coats to cover it properly and I am sorry for you if you are trying yellow or orange over black, that is hell waiting to happen.


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## Thanatos (Mar 23, 2009)

with the whole primer arguement going on here.. ive always used black primer for any metalic or darker colours and white for reds, yellows, orange etc. i think its perfectly fine that some people use foundation paints as undercoats, everyone paints differently. that also includes tasting paints- apparently it gives a better consitency than water but ive never done it, especially after that time i got 'ard coat gloss varnish in my mouth

i actually havnt had any of the new foundation paints leak yet, it was always the previous black capped paints that leaked.

i have yet to try any other paints apart from the GW/Citodel range, i think i might go out for a 1 1/2 hour drive (lolz) and pick some up.

before i forget, as i was reading through the 7 pages of comments i developed a theory as to why so many people have trouble with GW paints leaking and drying up- they do it on purpose for the profits. think about it, u spill or have some paint leak, u nead to go buy some more and the same goes for paints drying out to quickly, maybe theyve added something to age the paint quicker or have it dry out.

Thanatos Reporting In.
EDIT:That just doesnt sound right.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> Black is a rubish color to primer with, lighter colors in the long run are a better color to undercoat. Half the paints out there, even foundations, will have to have miltiple coats to cover it properly and I am sorry for you if you are trying yellow or orange over black, that is hell waiting to happen.


That does depend. Obviously my Ulthwe Eldar are largely black anyway, but even with that, if you get a nice even coat from the spray, best achieved by drying in bright direct sunlight, then a very thin black coat can get the model up to a great base very quickly. If you achieve this, Macharius Solar Orange is easy to apply over the top, although I can't imagine anyone wishing to leave the orange at that, it's an excellent base for Blazing. For yellow, I've had success with Iyanden Darksun, followed by a mix of Iyanden and Bad Moon (Think it was Bad Moon, I'll edit it if wrong)


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

OK, yeah was late when I posted that lol. If the model is black then yes I will concede that black primer is best, and you can use black primer now-a-days to paint your models up to cheat shading, but for competition white is normally the standard from all the folks I have spoke with.


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## Bindi Baji (Apr 23, 2009)

djinn24 said:


> but for competition white is normally the standard from all the folks I have spoke with.


it all depends on 

A: what level of skill you are at

B: what colour scheme you are using

and

C: what you prefer

I know profesional painters who use black and slightly more that use white, it's more a matter of what you prefer and have got used to


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I've not had a problem with black primer at all since the foundation paints came out, they seem to cover just about anything in a couple of thin coats. 
It all depends on what sort of finish you want to achieve, use white for a brighter finish, black for dark.
As for using foundation paints as primer, if it works for you then go for it but remember that it won't key onto the surface as well as a proper primer so it won't be as hard wearing and will be easier to chip or rub off.


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