# Molding and Casting



## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

I have been interesting in learning the art of making molds and casts of models lately and a serious question entered my mind. Is it legal to make casts of GW models? If I bought a model and made molds of it does that break their copy write or do I have to sell a cast to make it illegal? This has been on my mind for a while now and its the only thing preventing me from getting into casting my own stuff.

Thoughts?


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

i would suggest that before you cast them, make alterations to make them your own, like brother argos, he has made the cadian sprue into a steel legion one, but has converted each peice so that its his own work. if you were to cast the item straight out of the box i understand that it would be breaking the copyright law that gamesworkshop has, so yes it would be illegal.

and anyway, half the fun of playing Warhammer/40k is going out and buying the kits, then brining them home.

and in all reality, its really just taking away money from the guys that take their time to crate these models, and well, in reality it could be considered stealing, just like downloading songs from limewire etc.

rant over.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

I copletely understand that part of it. My thought was to convert a wraithguard into a new pose and make casts of that so I'm not paying $200 for one squad. And it would be my own work like you mentioned. How would you feel about that?


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

well dude i think if you convert it into a new pose it should be "alterations" - dirty-dog-

so like it should be legal


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## humakt (Jan 2, 2008)

Chocobuncle said:


> well dude i think if you convert it into a new pose it should be "alterations" - dirty-dog-
> 
> so like it should be legal



I dont think this is strictly true. Casting a figure to make a squad of figures could potentialy get you into trouble. Copyright law is a very complex subject and my advise would be to err on the side of caution.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

As long as you have changed the individual pieces enough to be able to honestly say that they are now your own work then it shouldn't be a problem.
On the other hand, I'm not a copy right lawyer so don't take it as gospel.


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## fdshfn (Jun 24, 2009)

just change them enough and you should be fine, however, because you dont know wat is enough, id probly do quite a bit of changing


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

make a lot of alterations so that it is your own work, and not a copy of GW. I would have a VERY thorough read through GWs copyright laws. Your safest bet is to not do this at all, but i can completely understand not wanting to spend $200 on one squad. I would probably do what you are planning to do, but make extensive modifications to it so that it is not breaching any copyright laws.


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## Haekmo (Mar 1, 2009)

There is a pecentage value on what it will be, tho be carefull, gw no like copy cats...
i pull a few of my own moulds incorperating a few bits n peices but i wouldnt go mass producing just a remodeled pose.. GW will have all bases covered in the whole copy right law bullshit...

what type of moulding you thinking of pulling , www.tekcast.com have some decent gear for thermo plastic moulds, metal or resin.... well semi pro gear if you got the coin.
few home made jobs floating round cyber space to...

ps.. no GW i dont rip your moulds off, tho ive read there has been a crack down on people who do.....


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Here's the deal:

As far as discussing the topic here is concerned, it doesn't matter if copying GW models is legal or not.
Discussing copying GW models is not something we encourage or allow. It's right up there with discussing how to steal PDFs of GW books online. It's against the forum rules, and something that GW could have us shut down for if they thought we encouraged it.

Here's GW's official stance on the subject


GW legal said:


> 4. COUNTERFEITING/PEER-TO-PEER FILE SHARING
> 
> We are encountering people who counterfeit our miniatures and products more and more frequently. Counterfeiting is a crime in most countries worldwide. In addition to the other penalties, you can go to prison for counterfeiting. The same is true of peer-to-peer file sharing – if you have not paid for the material and you download it using peer-to-peer software, you are engaging in illegal activity. The same is true even if you already own a copy of the relevant Codex or Army Book. Please remember that Games Workshop does not produce its rule books or codices in electronic format – if you ever see any such material in electronic format, it is likely to be the product of criminal or infringing activity.
> 
> ...


Here's a link to GW's IP policy there's also an article there discussing what you can and cannot do with GW's copyrighted property. (which also governs what you can do as far as fan sites like ours goes)

One of their big no-nos is that you cannot "Create, distribute, or use any material that devalues any Games Workshop product in any way." posting on here about how to counterfeit GW minis, and us distributing that by hosting it would bot fall under 'devaluing' their products.

They also specifically mention casting...


different article from GW legal said:


> Casting
> 
> Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide.


So, if you want to talk about casting and moulding in general, that's fine...but be careful and be aware that any discussion of copying GW models is against the forum rules.

GW won't come to your house and repossess your hand-mounded space marines (at least not in the US or maybe UK), but if you sell them, buy them, or tell people how to make them then they come after you and anyone who helps it along the way.


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## Desolatemm (Feb 2, 2008)

Very good Galahad. I did not mean for this to become a chat about ripping off GW. My intent was to know what GW's stand on the subject was, not how to get around it. Thank you for the well sited post on the subject.

I believe it might be a good idea to make this a Sticky so other people who were curious about the subject are informed of their limitations and so we clearly show this forum is against casting GW miniatures.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Understandable, and I wouldn't want anyone to think I was accusing anyone of trying to get around GW, I just wanted to completely underline the issue.

As for making a sticky about it, we do have one, it's called the Forum Rules ;-)
Sure, the exact whys and wherefores aren't as spelt out there as they are here, but it's in there.

But as I said, you're free to talk about casting, just not about casting copies of GW models.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

As far as i know, enough to be able to cast it would be not being able to recognise any gw parts. so insted of casting gw stuff, why not have a go at sculpting some of your own and using gw stuff as insperation? 

its your own work, but make it different so there is no law breaking.

infact, if your really worried about the law, why not contact gamesworkshop about it?


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Remember GW also owns the images and names.

If you sculpt a space marine from scratch and it looks exactly like a space marine and/or you call it a space marine, you're still on GW's shit list.

As for contacting GW, the previous page I linked to and quoted from GW's legal copy on the subject


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

what i mean by contacting gw is stuff that you might not understand fully.

But anyway, as i said earlier, buying is half the fun of it.


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## Jason (Jun 20, 2009)

Ive always wanted to do the same, but im afraid that yes unless you alter them, they could sue you for all your monies and your kids monies (cuz there evil like that ) 

Jason


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

Alot of people were getting ripped off by people recasting rare/oop minis on ebay a few years back which lead GW to strengthen its policy,they are now very very keen on protecting their IP.


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## Kitsunex (Mar 8, 2009)

Galahad said:


> Remember GW also owns the images and names.
> 
> If you sculpt a space marine from scratch and it looks exactly like a space marine and/or you call it a space marine, you're still on GW's shit list.
> 
> As for contacting GW, the previous page I linked to and quoted from GW's legal copy on the subject


so how is what Brother Argos is doing with his Steel Legion legal?


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## officer kerky (Jun 12, 2008)

hey try this site i love it.
http://the-warforge.com/index.pl?Tutpressurecasting
it helps heaps.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Kitsunex said:


> so how is what Brother Argos is doing with his Steel Legion legal?


I haven't seen the thread (got a link?) but if he's copying minis, it's probably not. But that's between him and GW, I suppose.

If he starts explaining to people how to copy GW minis though, it needs to be reported and the mods will deal with it.

For the record: Heresy does not care if your models are sculpted, moulded or kitbashed. I've made a warhound out of plasticard, which is something else GW specifically frowns upon, and I've posted it to Heresy.

The thing is, we *do* care if you start *telling* people *how* to copy GW miniatures. GW does not like it if forums turn into meeting places for pirates and counterfeiters.

So if you make something, by all means post it. But don't go about giving tutorials on how to make casts from GW minis.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Glad you caught that Gal as you gave a far better answer than I might have.

I will second Gal's statements though: we don't really care if how you made, built, sculpted, etc, a model as that is your business. We just can't allow you to tell people HOW it was done, especially concerning a subject like casting. So long as you don't go into depth about how you used said casting process with this amount of mixture and the like, all will be well. And if it treads too far over the line, we will step in as needed.


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

well brother argos is converting his miniatures rather well, he has severly altered the legs, and chests, and he has converted helmets aswell. but dont forget that he isnt selling them, its for his use only.


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## Haekmo (Mar 1, 2009)

so is it all cool if we talk bout different product materials?? love to know what other people use???

like brother argos i like to do my own personal lil bits to personalise my army, and wouldnt by any means break rules or laws.. but would be interested in what other people use? 

Or is that a no no as it could lead to the dodgy bastards out there to better products?

thort id ask, as its a aspect of the hobby i find interesting...


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Haekmo said:


> so is it all cool if we talk bout different product materials?? love to know what other people use???


That's fine, and talking about how to make moulds and casts is fine too (that video tutorial earlier was great). Just so long as we;re talking about doing it for the purpose of original, personally sculpted accessories and whatnot.



> like brother argos i like to do my own personal lil bits to personalise my army, and wouldnt by any means break rules or laws.. but would be interested in what other people use?
> 
> Or is that a no no as it could lead to the dodgy bastards out there to better products?


Indeed. Making your own detail pieces and insignias is a good use for 
this sort of technique. If you want to talk about casting your own creations, that's fine. If someone uses the knowledge for nefarious ends, that's between them and GW legal and none of our business, just so long as it's understood that we don't discuss copying GW minis/IP (or anyone else's for that matter)



> thort id ask, as its a aspect of the hobby i find interesting...


Perfectly legitimate question.

Like I said, we don't care if you make your own minis, so long as you do not discuss how you copied GW minis. If you want to talk about casting that's ok, so long as it's with the understanding that it's not for copying GW minis. Just in the context of copying your own sculpts, or your own personally designed bits, etc


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## dirty-dog- (May 14, 2008)

Hey thanks for clearing that up Galahad,

makes a little bit more sence now.


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## Phenious (Jun 10, 2009)

Ok here is some thing I thought of but was not covered yet here, maybe some where else on the forums. I have a legitimate tyrant on its way (at least I hope its legit) and I got to thinking. Is it against GW policy if I were to cast the torso and head and tail for use as a base to create and customize a flyrant? It would start as a copy but then be turned into a whole new model through converting and green stuff. Would casting for means of something to build off of violate those rules?


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