# Black Legion Codex supplement



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The Black Legion codex supplement is now available for pre-order on the *iBook Store* and will be released on the 17th of August.



> Description
> The Black Legion are among the most hated foes of the Imperium, vile traitors and fearsome warriors responsible for ten thousand years of terror and murder.
> 
> About this Book:
> This Codex: Chaos Space Marines Supplement charts the history of the Legion, along with their Warmaster Abaddon, who stands poised to lead them to victory over the Imperium. Also inside you will find a showcase of Chaos Space Marine Citadel miniatures, presenting the warband colours and icons of those sworn to serve the Black Legion, supplemental rules that, in conjunction with Codex: Chaos Space Marines, allows you created a Black Legion force and a series of narrative missions that enable you to play through the Black Legion’s bloody history.


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

Seems really strange to start with the BL considering the codex is pretty much BL. I thought they would start with a unique legion like the Death Guard or Night Lords

I guess will be more of the same of the previous supplements with a few new pieces of wargear and a new warlord table


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Barnster said:


> Seems really strange to start with the BL considering the codex is pretty much BL. I thought they would start with a unique legion like the Death Guard or Night Lords
> 
> I guess will be more of the same of the previous supplements with a few new pieces of wargear and a new warlord table


You know what this means....smurf supplemental.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

That's a really odd choice. Really odd. Why BL? I know UM are popular (feck knows why) but I didn't think BL were, I would have though they would have been last on the list frankly! Is there even any need for them to have it? The standard dex covers them pretty well I thought!


----------



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

locustgate said:


> You know what this means....smurf supplemental.


Nope, it means abaddonwing


----------



## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm just confused. Then again the supplements are primarily for fluff as opposed to gaming and to me this seems to be about Abaddon as opposed to BL since I assumed that's what the codex was. William be interesting to see what this adds, but I just think there are more interesting and unique to go with as the first - presumably - chaos supplement.


----------



## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> The standard dex covers them pretty well I thought!


Yeah, as much as C:SM is pretty much a Smurf dex, I've always viewed the C:CSM as a BL 'dex.

So to give them a supplement seems a wee bit odd to me.


----------



## LazyG (Sep 15, 2008)

Could this be tied to the ADB Black Legion novels somehow?


----------



## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

I disagree with you chaps that think BL are 'vanilla' Chaos - seriously look at the fluff and history.
This legion unites all others for Black Crusades, they were the Warmasters own, and have resisted the corruption of Chaos unlike many other chapters.
Therefore i'd suggest these guys do need a mini dex quite early on to reflect their better leadership, discipline and focus, probably a more elite force list, which is not reflected in the dex at present.
I'd say similar applies to the Ultramarines.


----------



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

slaaneshy said:


> I disagree with you chaps that think BL are 'vanilla' Chaos - seriously look at the fluff and history.
> This legion unites all others for Black Crusades, they were the Warmasters own, and have resisted the corruption of Chaos unlike many other chapters.
> Therefore i'd suggest these guys do need a mini dex quite early on to reflect their better leadership, discipline and focus, probably a more elite force list, which is not reflected in the dex at present.
> I'd say similar applies to the Ultramarines.


The difference with black legion is that it represents every aspect of chaos (which is why most people are wandering why they are getting the suppliment.) Ultramarines do not represent every space marine. For example here are no firedrakes in the ultramarines but there are plauge marines in the black legion.

Most likely the book will represent the sons of horus that survived the heresy and not all the various forces that have flocked to the warmasters cause.


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

slaaneshy said:


> Stuff


Their fluff is the are a legion who as a whole says they 'use chaos but is not used by it'. CSM codex 4th?. If they have resisted chaos then why do the have marines that are possessed or devoted to the gods, the Night Lords and Alphas are far more resistant to chaos that the BL.



warsmith7752 said:


> BL words Smurf words


If they wanted a army that represents every god then why not Word Bearers, they are far more interesting than the Legion.

Both BL and Smurfs are the vanilla marines they are the basic Marines that all others are compared to.
What makes them unique. 
BL:
They are resistant\ do not en mass worship the chaos gods:
-So do the AL, IW, and NL
They represent all 4 choas gods
-So does every other chaos legion except for Sons, EC, DG, and WE

Smurfs:
They follows the rules THEY made
-ok.....so does every other chapters


----------



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

locustgate said:


> I am a dipshit


The black legion is diverse enough to encompass every other legion and then still have some unique stuff. Unlike the smurfs who are literally vanilla. They have no unique units or stratagems other than named characters. Whereas black legion are labelled vannilla because they are the closest thing to a plain chaos army.

From lexicannum:



> The principle tactic of the legion - one illustrative of their overall attitude - was a decisive surgical assault aimed directly at the command element of the enemy. A compact but hard-hitting force of marines up to several companies strong would compose the initial (and ideally total) thrust of the effort; this battle philosophy was referred to as the Speartip. [3f] Their defeat and exile was a crushing blow to the collective ego of the Legion, and they broke down and fragmented easily without a purpose or powerful leader to act as the point of their spear.


The current codex does not give black legion players a way to represent this. Sure we can deepstrike terminators with abaddon but our troops, heavy support and fast attack are left doing the same thing as normal. However the traditional play style of the other legions is much better represented by the use of cult troops/daemon engines/raptors.


From some guy on faeit:



> Also, it looks like there is a section on Black Legion Warbands, with alternate paint schemes. They show one painting with standard black and bronze, but with a single red shoulder pad to show the trooper's dedication to Khorne... They are called the Hounds of Abaddon and are lead by Urkanthos, master of the Black Fleet. Cool!


not sure where he got the name of the guy but there is a little bit about the hounds in the preview.

This goes to show that a codex supplement about black legion that contains something completely knew. It would be very difficult to do this with many of the other legions as they still maintain a semblance of their previous structure where the black legion have pretty much deviated completely save for Abaddon and his personal warband.


The only other legion i would have considered to be a better fit for a supplement would be alpha legion as i feel they are the worse represented legion in the codex.

Word bearers don't represent every god in the same way. They worship chaos undividedly whereas the black legion is divided on who to worship.


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

warsmith7752 said:


> I am an ass that insults those I don't agree with and misspells *NEW*


A surgical strike is nothing new for SMs the only ones I know that don't do it are WE and well they are frothing mad men. Hell the AL is a hell of lot better than at it than the BL. 

For ages it has been stated that the legions are now made of multiple warbands, how does that make the BL unique?


----------



## Double Heretic (Jul 7, 2013)

As someone who reads books and knows plenty about the Black Legion, I'd be happy to buy this supplement. Justaerin termies, the individual warbands that support Abbadon, all cool in my book. But I won't buy the supplement, because I can't. I don't own Apple products. I never want to own Apple products. Should it come out as an alternate digital release for Android or as a PDF, I might consider it. But otherwise, print or GTFO GW.


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Double Heretic said:


> As someone who reads books and knows plenty about the Black Legion, I'd be happy to buy this supplement. Justaerin termies, the individual warbands that support Abbadon, all cool in my book. But I won't buy the supplement, because I can't. I don't own Apple products. I never want to own Apple products. Should it come out as an alternate digital release for Android or as a PDF, I might consider it. But otherwise, print or GTFO GW.


The farsight supplemental they released on BL site in mobi and ..epub I think. They may do the same.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin (Nov 12, 2012)

Double Heretic said:


> As someone who reads books and knows plenty about the Black Legion, I'd be happy to buy this supplement. Justaerin termies, the individual warbands that support Abbadon, all cool in my book. But I won't buy the supplement, because I can't. I don't own Apple products. I never want to own Apple products. Should it come out as an alternate digital release for Android or as a PDF, I might consider it. But otherwise, print or GTFO GW.


Looks like the eBook version will be available on Sep 7. The iBook version comes first though on Apr 17.


----------



## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

locustgate said:


> Condescending prick who reminds me why I barely frequent forums any more


Well, since GW ARE releasing a supplement to add some unique flavour, frankly it makes no difference if you think they deserve it or not - they have it! :thank_you:


----------



## Svartmetall (Jun 16, 2008)

Double Heretic said:


> ...I won't buy the supplement, because I can't. I don't own Apple products. I never want to own Apple products. Should it come out as an alternate digital release for Android or as a PDF, I might consider it. But otherwise, print or GTFO GW.


This, to the _N_th degree. Fuck Apple. Fuck them right in the ear.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

OK enough with the snarky snaps at each other. Any more and you'll both be getting slapped. Clear?


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Looks like the eBook version will be available on Sep 7. The iBook version comes first though on Apr 17.


Two things 1 why is it when I click on iBook it goes to ebay? and I think you mean Aug 17.



Jacobite said:


> OK enough with the snarky snaps at each other. Any more and you'll both be getting slapped. Clear?


Actually it was 3 people but....shutting it now.


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Didn't they release the iyanden supplement in hardback? Seems odd they don't still do it. 

The only thing I can think if that thy can do for BL is that they focus more on chosen as the original sons of Horus, or some sort of bonus for veterans of the long war. 

I would personally like to see some supplements which bring back the old characters like cypher and the war smith, as weren't there rumours that some supplements would have unique models/supplements. After all they have brought the fallen back in the DA fluff an there were rumours about them coming back in the original CSM dex.

I personally don't think there is much point of a BL supplement and that it will be mainly fluff based but I am certainly interested in what they have made as rules.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

falcoso said:


> Didn't they release the iyanden supplement in hardback? Seems odd they don't still do it.
> 
> The only thing I can think if that thy can do for BL is that they focus more on chosen as the original sons of Horus, or some sort of bonus for veterans of the long war.
> 
> ...



The whole point is to showcase Abaddon, the first among the chosen of the Ruinous Powers, and the legacy of the Sons of Horus legion. The supplement series are more about fluff than anything else, which is why the "iconic" army from each Codex seems to be getting one. Rules-wise, it's an army that lets you overindulge on Elites units as Troops (i.e., Chosen and Terminators) and build an army of the most elite of the Chaos Space Marines regardless of whether you have Abaddon leading them or not.


----------



## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

falcoso said:


> Didn't they release the iyanden supplement in hardback? Seems odd they don't still do it.



All supplements are being released in Hardback as GW Direct items only. Though a LONG time after the digital release

Personally I think they have handled the supplement releases disastrously. If they stocked them in stores casual people would have likely picked them up. They have not really been advertised heavily and they don't add any real value to the codexes.

Would have been nice if each supplement added a unique character/ unit rather than just wargear/ warlord and potential for slight force org changes


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Barnster said:


> Would have been nice if each supplement added a unique character/ unit rather than just wargear/ warlord and potential for slight force org changes


I agree. Beyond GW stores no FFG is likely to tell every casual customer that they can order a direct supplement. Not as much in it for them anymore though some of my stores have stocked them anyway.

From my understanding of rumors was that supplements are intended to ramp up starting with army variants with fewer rules before ones with bigger sweeping rules. Would make sense for balance testing to make sure they don't rock the boat to much and get a good idea of what they can do. Least that's the only logical way I would get Black Legion instead of my "siege masters".


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Karyudo-DS said:


> I agree. Beyond GW stores no FFG is likely to tell every casual customer that they can order a direct supplement. Not as much in it for them anymore though some of my stores have stocked them anyway.
> 
> From my understanding of rumors was that supplements are intended to ramp up starting with army variants with fewer rules before ones with bigger sweeping rules. Would make sense for balance testing to make sure they don't rock the boat to much and get a good idea of what they can do. Least that's the only logical way I would get Black Legion instead of my "siege masters".


The farsight added a couple new commanders. But it didn't add any new models.


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

COULD be an interesting read and something to mirror DraigoWing. Not saying These will make great armies, but I'm all for even more options.

Still, the price tag puts me off, just like it put me off the previous 2.


----------



## Bearer.of.the.Word (Aug 11, 2013)

The worrying thing is that so far only one supplement per army, as opposed to the three each idea that was pretty solid, my hope for a word bearer supplement is flagging slightly.


----------



## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Bearer.of.the.Word said:


> The worrying thing is that so far only one supplement per army, as opposed to the three each idea that was pretty solid, my hope for a word bearer supplement is flagging slightly.


Little while ago, a week or so there was rumor of another sup for Tau, Kroot, and eldar, Biel-Tan(sp?).


----------



## Loli (Mar 26, 2009)

I think new supplements have always worked for GW on the basis of, if it sell then we will make more. So if the Black Legion one sells then you might get other Chaos ones. Admittedly this theory sounds borked but it's possible.


----------



## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

I think this is a case where GW are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It costs a lot more to produce a print book than an e-book. If GW stick to print the development and release cycle remain longer. If they move towards electronic people are left out, or feel marginalized.

What GW can do with this is use the accelerated release schedule of the electronic format to continually balance the game. Of course every build for every faction can't be balanced, but it does mean they can provide options to each faction that meet those needs as the macro-meta-game evolves.

Hmm, I wonder if a supplemental codex will count as a different "book" for the purposes of choosing detachments?


----------



## Karyudo-DS (Nov 7, 2009)

Bearer.of.the.Word said:


> The worrying thing is that so far only one supplement per army, as opposed to the three each idea that was pretty solid, my hope for a word bearer supplement is flagging slightly.


Supposedly the Supplements have no concrete release schedule and are trickling down as their done. I would like to see a few other Chaos ones as well though I'm expecting they'll want to spread the love. Which doesn't really seem like a great idea for an "experiment". I would snatch up an Iron Warrior book as fast as humanly possible but Black Legion? Night Lords? Any of the others with awesome possibilities? Probably not. I'm sure they're interesting books and I could use them with the Codex anyway, but I would imagine some of us are just waiting for our specific legion/etc.

Of course at this speed with the Codex's they might have to turn to filling out more Supplements to keep the money flowing. So there's hope.


----------



## falcoso (Apr 7, 2012)

Kreuger said:


> Hmm, I wonder if a supplemental codex will count as a different "book" for the purposes of choosing detachments?


I reckon if they do a BT supplement then they will have their own allies but I doubt others will as they aren't in the allies matrix


----------



## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Rumor current has it that BT are keeping their current Allies rules.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

anyone pick up the iboook an can bestow us with the gist of it? Is it worth picking up? I dont have an ipad, but am curious as to what it grants BL.


----------



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

From some guy in the faet212 comments,



> Black Legion: Chaos Space Marine Codex Supplement... $39.99 off of iBooks.
> 
> 1 - 5 Ranking (1 = Low, 5 = High): 3... Or so...
> 
> ...


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Thanks warpsmith, that sure makes my decision easy. That's pretty garbage, save the hand of darkness.


----------



## warsmith7752 (Sep 12, 2009)

some more detailed info on some of the rules, 

via Cheexsta on warseer


> Supplement is out in Australia.
> 
> There's a new Daemon Sword, slightly cheaper than the Axe of a Blind Fury. Gives a bonus to initiative. Should've always been in the codex, IMHO.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Chosen as troops is bad. Chosen with having to take votlw is worse. Intact everything that can, must take votlw. The d3 pen vehicle blast is 75 points, and ap4. It has its uses though. The daemon sword bumps I, and is a nice alternative to axe khorne lords. The mantle lets you give EW to your princes (making them even more ridiculously expensive). 

If anything the supplement will allow cheese balls to ally in the supplement and run 4 heldrakes. Oh joy.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

_"It presents some very minor artistic, drawn images of what a CSM from each of the Black Legion's Warbands looks like: Hounds of Abaddon (Khorne), Children of Torment (Slaanesh), Sons of the Cyclops (Tzeentch), Bringers of Decay (Nurgle), The Tormented (Possessed?), and The Oath Broken (Legionnaires who failed Abaddon in battle and now have cybernetic augmentations; completely aesthetic no actual unit enhancement). None of these Warbands have any specific rules or anything more than a brief description of who they are and a picture of them in the typical Black Legion color scheme, but with a highlight of their Chaos God's typical color thrown somewhere on their armor (Red, Purple, Blue, Green-ish). "_

Wait... fucking what?

I thought the whole point of Supplements was to add fluff *and* alternative/optional rules for exactly this sort of thing. Great, gleaming fucksticks this is Rampant. Fucking. Idiocy. Guess if I wanted to play the Hounds of Abaddon I'll have to wait for a Supplement to the Supplement to the Codex huh?


----------



## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

I think the only supplement I can think of that I'd use would be an Alpha Legion one--first because they're my favorite legion, and second because I imagine it would provide some excellent sneaky, infiltrate and the like options. I wish.


----------



## Sephyr (Jan 18, 2010)

This is just plain lazy. Farsight Enclaves at least had the decency to add a whole new flavor and came with a ton of fluffy, unique bodyguards for the title character. Iyanden also very much shifted how an Eldar army functions (ignoring Serpent spam, that is).

Black Legion seems to just make CSM more expensive, bloat the FOC with more helldrakes and do exactly nothing to help with mobility, bad psyker powers or subpar elites. It has nothing to help with reserves or deep strikes, no psychic defense, no fun characters (Hell, give us 5 HQs named Talons of the Warmaster to sell some termi lord kits, at least!). Just a way to bump basic chaos marine price even higher while loyalists go to 14 with ATSKNF, chapter tactics and drop pod availability. 

I picked poorly when I chose CSM and Dark Eldar as my armies.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

I dont see what theyre trying to do with this supplement. Id say this is the worst rules wise to date. It literally does nothing to the already weak CSM codex but make it more expensive. Chosen at 20 pts BASE are not a good troop choice. Having to take votlw on everything adds up at 1850 pts. I had high hopes for this supplement, but after seeing its contents it just aggravated me. At least farsight shifted crisis suits to troops and changed the way to play the tau codex.


----------



## slaaneshy (Feb 20, 2008)

As a Black Legion player, disapointed. I can see where the idea was going - making them more 'elite', but of course this has made them more expensive.
These rules could be useful to add some 'allies' to another force, but stand alone, less convinced. Oh well - perhaps a repaint is in order?


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

Just 'ally' in black legion to your csms and run 4 drakes. We are codex heldrake afterall. (And yes this will be a thing in tournies, and its completely sad).


----------



## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

So, can I use Terminators as troops? I hear 'Chosen' are troops, but does it include termies?

Was considering picking up the Ibook when I am paid... but, I'm feeling discouraged!


----------



## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Chosen are a special brand of Marines, under the "Elite" section of the regular codex. This does not apply to Terminators.


----------



## Nordicus (May 3, 2013)

Chosen are a special brand of Marines, under the "Elite" section of the regular codex. This does not apply to Terminators.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

This is genius, charge money to make the most bland chaos marines available, because using the basic book cannot produce the most basic chaos legion.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

This is genius, charge money to make the most bland chaos marines available, because using the basic book cannot produce the most basic chaos legion.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

This is genius, charge money to make the most bland chaos marines available, because using the basic book cannot produce the most basic chaos legion.


----------



## Ravner298 (Jun 3, 2011)

No, no troop terminators. You can run chosen as troops without using abandon, but you're required to buy votlw for them (20pts base) and everything else in the army that can take it. 

This, ontop of GW saying that putting legions into the main csm book would be impossible, and then turning around and doing chapter tactics for multiple SM legions in the same codex, has csm players in an uproar.


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord (Apr 17, 2009)

Might have been ok if VotLW was free, but having to buy it is a bit shit-tastic. 

It's funny in the fluff they mention that the black legion is willing to accept anyone who'll swear allegiance to abby. That doesn't sound like an 'elite force' to me.


----------



## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Simple fix for this supplement is to cherry pick its few good elements by allying them in. That way you get access to the decent artifacts list, and can avoid the stupid cost of entry by taking their mandatory troop unit as basic cultists. See problem solved. Hell just think of it as a cheap way to get another fast/heavy unit into your basic force org under pts 2000 I know I will when I end up taking 4 havok squads in my 1850 pt list.


----------



## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Sephyr said:


> This is just plain lazy.


I completely, 100% agree.



Sephyr said:


> Black Legion seems to just make CSM more expensive, bloat the FOC with more helldrakes and do exactly nothing to help with mobility, bad psyker powers or subpar elites. It has nothing to help with reserves or deep strikes, no psychic defense, no fun characters. Just a way to bump basic chaos marine price even higher while loyalists go to 14 with ATSKNF, chapter tactics and drop pod availability.


Now this however, I completely disagree with.
See the fact that the supplement was written as lazily as possible has bent inwards from awful to awesome with the bafflingly inexpensive table-changing powers.
Take the Last Memory of Yuranthos. For the price of two plasma guns, you get a free mastery level and the best anti-tau power in the entire game. It's a nova with a radius of 6" per warp charge you burn. Put this on a sorceror on a bike, give him an entourage of shambling spawn or other bikers, and he'll be potentially blinding the entire opposed army every turn with a fucking ridiculous 37" bubble of damage. The only downside is if he fails his psychic test, he is removed instantly. Which is a laughable downside as for the price of a plasma gun we can reroll our psychic test on ld10. We only mathematically fail when Eldrad fails a psychic test now. Not to mention, the nova springs for 2d6 s4 ap5 ignores cover hits per squad it brushes. So say goodbye to an entire army worth of combat squad marines by turn three.
This is all for a fucking joke price tag of two plasma guns. The item also makes you capable of blasting it at full power every single turn and have a warpcharge left for a biomancy spell of your choice. Lock him in combat in turn two against a tarpit, and keep blasting apart his army at your own leisure.

If you're worried about VotLW coming up, just take cultist and tanks. Mauler/Forgefiends, cultists, and any tank aren't eligible to be VotLW'd. If you want to take a big unit of havocs or oblits, ally them in.
Or if you want to, just take the game-breakingly overpowered relics, pay five points for your allied Black Legion ic to have VotLW, and take a single ten man of cultist for mandatory troops.

While we don't get any named special characters to use(which, seriously fucking lazy on the part of the writer. Abaddon's had a four-man team of ass-beating champions who desperately need statlines), we do get access to things that make our own hand-made ICs infinitely more powerful.

Worried about flying dp's of nurgle with instant death weapons punking your Lord? Take the skull of kerg'nar. For the price of four melta guns, you get eternal warrior and adamantine will. Slap the Lord on a palanquin with a retinue of cultists and you have an unkillable board denier who can slowly walk en masse toward things that need their teeth kicked in.

Is IG giving you trouble? For the price of a minimum unit of screamers you get that infinite range large blast that also straight up ignores cover. Camo nets? Mo' like gtfo the table...in a net...I'm still working on this one.

Point being they gave us the option to have an entire allied foc for the base price of five points(For the IC to take VotLW), and hilariously broken artifacts depending on the opposition.



Sephyr said:


> I picked poorly when I chose CSM


Your friends picked poorly when they didn't.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Ravner298 said:


> has csm players in an uproar.


And yet still, nobody cares because chaos players get in an uproar every 5 minutes about something new, even laughing at chaos players isn't fun anymore.


----------

