# WoC vs Skaven 3k - and meta - advice sought



## reubiedoo (Mar 21, 2009)

Long story short I am Starting WoC and my first battle will against Skaven at 3000 points, in about a week.

I have no models, and will be buying everything I need in the near future. Against an anticipated arsenal of warp-lightning I thought Kholek might be a good choice, but the other armies I face regularly are HE DE and VC, and he is pretty useless against all those, so don't know if I want to shell out for him.

Any advice would be appreciated. Atm I am probably going to to be taking 3 Nurgle Sorcerers - undecided on Lords - and Trolls and KhorneHalberd and NurgeGW Warriors as my core, with big units of Skullcrushers.

Any advice for future engagements with Elves of all flavours and Vampire Counts would also be warmly recieved.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

R


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## DivineEdge (May 31, 2012)

I can tell you right now that 3 nurgle sorcerers is repetitive, you don't need that many. Festus is a great option if you want the nurgle spells, because he'll also give his unit the constant 5+ regen, which is a big deal. 

Kholek is cool, but is a big points commitment, and means no sorc. lord. 

Also, a battle standard bearer of some kind isn't a necessity, but is pretty darn good. 

Maybe post up a rough army list in the armylist section and you can get some more help from that.


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## Brother Dextus (Jan 30, 2013)

I wouldn't worry - skaven usually turn and run away pretty swiftly. Avoid getting bogged down by units of 50 slaves/clanrats. They will be in a 10 x 5 formation where you will (if the player has any sense) be attacking the front 5 - the clanrats wont turn tail unless you thin the ranks, so always attack the widest part of any skaven formation.


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## KarnalBloodfist (Jan 30, 2010)

A few general tips:
1) Marauders are over-pointed for what they do (or, rather, what they won't do now).
2) Warriors are rock hard! They can pull double duty as hammer or anvil, depending on how you kit them out.
3) Gorebeast chariots will make your opponent say, "WTF!?" when you tell them they have T6 and 5W.
4) Skullcrushers, in both small and large units, can be scary if used right. They are good, but don't expect them to blow out a horde of White Lions on the charge.
5) Chaos knights are still deadly. They get overshadowed by Skullcrushers and chimeras a lot. In a large 3K game you should be able to easily fit in a unit of 5 or 6 as a bit of a surprise. MoK works nice as the riders will pump out 3 attacks a piece. Just watch out for Frenzy-baiting.
6) Chimeras are a good unit but be careful what you charge. At T5 and I2 they can easily lose to faster units like Skaven, and all flavors of Elves. Use them to combo charge. Regenerating Flesh and Fiery Breath are good additions. I like to use the breath weapon in CC to do 2D6 attacks on top of the 6+D3 regular attacks and the D6 Thunderstomp attacks.
7) I would almost always suggest a BSB. There are some pretty sick builds out there (*cough*unkillable Tzeench*cough*).
8) If you really want to be hated: Hortense disco lord or Slaanesh sorcerer lord on steed of Slaanesh in a unit of 9 or 10 Hellflayers (Lore of Slaanesh can be so very dirty. Probably the new title holder for "Most Broken" IMHO).
9) Daemon Princes ARE that good!!! At 3K you could do a combo of combat prince and sorcerer lord.
10) Vanguarding hounds are great chaff units. Drop them early and then vanguard them toward enemy chaff or towards your main line to act as missile screens.

Tips vs the rats:
1) Watch out for the Hellpit Abomination. They can be deadly with all the special attacks they have and will hold you up to no end w/ their ability to regenerate and come back from the dead. Not to mention they're Stubborn as well. A unit of Nurgle or Khorne warriors w/ halberds or great weapons and the Banner of Eternal Flame can be useful there. Even a unit of knights w/ lances and the banner can do the job. Just be careful they don't throw a fire extinguisher character at you - someone w/ the Dragonhelm or Dragonbane Gem.
2) Like Brother Dextus said, watch out for the tarpit units: 50+ slaves or clanrats. If you go infantry heavy you will be the one getting charged most of the time. If he has 3 or 4 units like that there's not much you can do to avoid them.
3) If you know there's going to be a lot of warp lightning flying about, dragon ogres and a shaggoth will help out. I'd avoid Kholek. He's a huge point sink and he doesn't have a ward save. There's a lot out there that can ignore armor and I1 can be very dangerous vs some of the killer spells. T8 can help but only if he's in combat which should happen by round 2 w/ him but, again, tarpits will drag him down.
4) Combo charges will help a lot vs the tarpits. Anything plus a chariot/chimera will help. I haven't played a 3K game in this edition but I have had a prince and chimera dual charge large units and just decimate them.

Vs Elves:
1) Watch out for the ASF for the new books. Warriors have high I but all the enemy has to do is equal your I and they get a reroll. Not to hard to do w/ Elves. I can only assume that WE will be getting ASF when GW gets around to their book in 2137.
2) Haven't faced any of the new elf books but new DE have core witch elves. They will pump out an obscene amount of poisoned attacks so beware.
3) Frostheat Phoenix will give ASL to units in BtB. Watch for combo charges from that and blocks of infantry or Dragon Princes.
4) Not sure how new book is but old DE had a killer shooting phase. Repeater crossbows and reaper bolt throwers can turn your troops into pin cushions.

Vs VC:
1) A Terrorgheist is a pain. Dual are brutal. They can scream into combat and it will hurt. Hortense disco lord will help a bit here as long as you get the charge and can do some damage.
2) Watch out for psychology tests. Chimera only have Ld5 and only Chaos Lord and Daemon Prince have 9. W/ flying DP or lord it's hard to keep stuff in range of Inspiring Presence. Ld 8 is just a pip over average. Marks of Slaanesh and Khorne will go a long way to combat that. Also the BSB's Hold Your Ground rule to reroll Ld tests helps a lot.
3) Beware hex wraiths. They're Ethereal and you need magic attacks to hit them. A typical prince build can take them but you usually want him hitting a juicier target. Their attacks also ignore armor and are flaming added w/ the fact that they can move through your units and for each model that does, it does an automatic S5, flaming, armor-negating hit. Small units will feel the brunt of that more. If you can lock them down w/ a smallish unit of knights w/ ensorcelled weapons you should be ok. You'll go first, be able to actually hit them, and will ignore their armor. Again, they cause Terror so marks of Khorne or Slaanesh.
4) Most of the VC army has terrible I so anything in Chaos armor will kill them in droves. Just watch out for challenges by unit champions. They are always the first to come back and your characters cannot avoid challenges. You'll get lots of rolls on the Eye of the Gods chart but your killy characters won't be helping take out VC characters or RnF.
5) VC have a lot of chaff to throw at you to hold you up while screamers do their thing. Disc riding characters w/ magic weapons can help clear chaff like units of 5 dire wolves, single spirit hosts, and 2 fell bats. They can't flee so you shouldn't have problems getting to them.
6) Black coaches usually aren't a problem for most but Chaos Warriors have to be careful if the VC player starts rolling a lot of 6s to boost it. I've had turn 3 flying, ethereal coaches crashing into me and it hurts. High S, magical attacks will help.
7) Blender vamp lords are brutal. Very killy and they gain wounds back like nobody's business. Watch out for large units of black knights escorting a vampire or 3.


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## reubiedoo (Mar 21, 2009)

Wow thanks Karnal! +rep.


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## KarnalBloodfist (Jan 30, 2010)

NP boss. 

And a quick correction - Frostheart Phoenix will give ASL to enemies in BtB, not ASF. I corrected above.


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