# The Master of Mankind cover art



## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Now this looks like the energy injection that the Heresy series needs.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Utterly. F**king. Awesome. :surprise::surprise:


LotN


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

I'll probably get this book, even though I've given up on the series in general, but I'll wait till it comes out in regular format


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## Batarang (Sep 14, 2016)

Wow... very imperesive cover.  I just got the first 2 volumes and the graphic novel of The Horus Heresy series, i can't wait for the books to arrive. I'm so excited. Why did you quit the series Oldman78 ? writing gets bad in later books or something ?


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Batarang said:


> Why did you quit the series Oldman78 ? writing gets bad in later books or something ?


I cannot speak for him, but the general consensus is that the series just grows stale somewhere after _Know No Fear_. It just feels as if it lost all steam and started standing still, with many books coming out but none of them progressing the overall story in any meaningful way and instead focusing on narratives that ultimately have no bearing on the overall plot and a _lot_ of anthologies, limited editions and novellas, often covering already explored sections or just being otherwise pointless.

The Heresy setting also loses a lot of what makes it interesting by devolving into what could essentially be regular Warhammer 40,000 novels for all they bring to the table, devolving into bolter porn on a regular basis just to pad out the page counts. These are not necessarily bad books as such, but they are just not what I want out of the Heresy series.

I myself really started losing interest around _Angel Exterminatus_ due to BL delaying the paperback releases by nine months in favour of first releasing hardbacks, followed by trade paperbacks and only after those two releasing the regular paperbacks that we had so far been purchasing. Being essentially nine months delayed from any meaningful discussion regarding the plot of novels really killed one of the more exciting parts of the series for me and it was also at about that time when the plot stagnated and lost its focus overall. 
I recently made an exception to my buying habits and just out of curiosity bought the audio version of _Praetorian of Dorn_, and I find it to be really good and it feels like we might finally be getting back on track with the series, but there are like 10 releases that came out before it that I have not yet even bought because they are not available in paperback yet so I am really behind in the series, and due to lack of interest I have not even yet started reading the previous two they released in paperback, whatever those happened to be. :|


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## Batarang (Sep 14, 2016)

Doelago said:


> I cannot speak for him, but the general consensus is that the series just grows stale somewhere after _Know No Fear_. It just feels as if it lost all steam and started standing still, with many books coming out but none of them progressing the overall story in any meaningful way and instead focusing on narratives that ultimately have no bearing on the overall plot and a _lot_ of anthologies, limited editions and novellas, often covering already explored sections or just being otherwise pointless.
> 
> The Heresy setting also loses a lot of what makes it interesting by devolving into what could essentially be regular Warhammer 40,000 novels for all they bring to the table, devolving into bolter porn on a regular basis just to pad out the page counts. These are not necessarily bad books as such, but they are just not what I want out of the Heresy series.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thoroughly answer Doelago. I'm still pretty excited cause i'm new to 40k and i'm yet to start reading The Horus Heresy, and i have 18 books to get to the stale parts YAY!  I will probably read Angel Exterminatus even if i'm kind of bored when i get to there cause according to a writing that i read, Angel Exterminatus is connected with Ultramarines series which was written by the same author, Graham McNeill, and i really liked Ultramarines series so much so far so i can't wait to get to that part of HH. (Ultramarines series is the first series which i read of 40k) I think will like even the parts which you found stale cause i'm new and i won't be like bah... bolter porn again... lol i can understand your frustration because of the delays... i would be too. I have never tried an audio book, do the space marines sound bad ass in them ? lol i don't think i will get in to HCs too, i mean they are kind of expensive but hopefuly the HH series will end till i get to the 40th book or something so i won't have the same problem, i hope... 

And i have a question Where do i excatly read The Macragge's Honour HH graphic novel ? after which book ? i couldn't find an answer to it even in wiki...


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Batarang said:


> And I have a question, where do I excatly read the Macragge's Honour HH graphic novel? After which book? I couldn't find an answer to it even in the wiki...


Macragge's Honour is set after the main novel Know No Fear. Once you've read that, a fantastic novel and one of the HH's best in my opinion, you'll be able to fully understand the plot of Macragge's Honour.

As for the so-called stale parts, it's really down to your own individual taste. I enjoyed Angel Exterminatus a great deal, it made Perturabo into an actually interesting character, showed how fall Fulgrim has really fallen, and introduced Nykona Sharrowkyn. Personally I think that the novels in the stale period, 22-38, have some of the best entries in the series like Betrayer, The Unremembered Empire, Scars, Vengeful Spirit, Deathfire, Path of Heaven, and are actually more interesting than some earlier books such as Legion, Mechanicum, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels or Prospero Burns.

You just have to read and judge for yourself. But I do feel that if you drop out of the series at that period, you are missing some of the best parts of the series. Especially anything by Aaron Dembski-Bowden and Chris Wraight.


LotN


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Batarang said:


> . I'm still pretty excited cause i'm new to 40k and i'm yet to start reading The Horus Heresy, and i have 18 books to get to the stale parts YAY!


I definitely hope that I have not made you afraid to dig deep and read the series, as it is definitely a good read, with a few notable exceptions. Even the "stale" parts have good books in them and most of us very critical sounding people are just long time fans of WH40K and have grown jaded and bitter over the years.

The Heresy series in particular has gone on for 10 years now, and while it in the beginning was very exciting with all the revelations and world building that was going it has lost some it‘s magical charm over the years. Back in the day almost every book in the series was met with some level of excitement, even the ones overall regarded as being quite bad, since there was so much new going on. Now that the setting has been built and there is only so much more that can be added, even excellent novels like _The Unremembered Empire_ have been met with some negativity over not "meaningfully" progressing the story towards the battle of Terra. 

With almost 40 novels (we at 39 now?) and probably a dozen limited edition novellas at this point what begun as a short blurb of lore in a rulebook a few decades ago has really spiralled into something quite a lot bigger than most of us expected that we were about to get into and are getting burned out by the amount of "filler" content being released now. All the big important events of the Heresy, like Istvaan, Prospero, Calth, Signus Prime and Phall have by now been covered, or are about to (the War in the Webway) and people are itching for Terra, which we seem to finally be approaching. :smile2:



Batarang said:


> I will probably read Angel Exterminatus even if i'm kind of bored when i get to there cause according to a writing that i read, Angel Exterminatus is connected with Ultramarines series which was written by the same author, Graham McNeill, and i really liked Ultramarines series so much so far so i can't wait to get to that part of HH. (Ultramarines series is the first series which i read of 40k)


If you have enjoyed the Ultramarines series you will definitely enjoy _Angel Exterminatus_ as well I‘d imagine. I find Graham McNeill to be a bit hit or miss. He can either write the most excellent book or an real bad one, and sometimes he writes one that is half good and half awful. 



Batarang said:


> I think will like even the parts which you found stale cause i'm new and i won't be like bah... bolter porn again...


Yeah, this did not use to be a problem for me, but after having read Black Library novels for over ten years now I quickly notice that there is only so many ways to describe something being killed by a boltgun, eviscerated by a chainsword etc and it starts getting so munade, and I start wanting the world building, character development and plot way more than the gritty parts of the books, since they start almost flowing together. This makes me really appreciate novels such as _Prospero Burns_ and the _Ciaphas Cain_ series for being very such different takes on the formula and having a new perspective. 



Batarang said:


> I have never tried an audio book, do the space marines sound bad ass in them ?


Depends on who you ask. The regular audiobooks (which are the novels, but read to you) are just a single narrator putting on different accents and voices for different characters, whilst the audio dramas (shorter stories with music, sound effects etc) have a larger cast of actors. Whatever they sound bad ass like the stereotypical Space Marine would is really up to each and everyones own imagination, for me it works and is very immersive, but some people are put of by the voices not matching what they themselves imagined the characters in question would sound like. 



Batarang said:


> And i have a question Where do i excatly read The Macragge's Honour HH graphic novel ? after which book ? i couldn't find an answer to it even in wiki...


_Macragge‘s Honour_ takes place right after the novel _Know No Fear_, picking up right where it ended.

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Lord of the Night said:


> Personally I think that the novels in the stale period, 22-38, have some of the best entries in the series like Betrayer... The Unremembered Empire.... Scars... Vengeful Spirit


Out of the 16 stale period novels those are the pretty much the four worth reading.  



Lord of the Night said:


> more interesting than some earlier books such as... Legion... Prospero Burns..


This is heresy and *I will fight you* with a knife 1v1.


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## Lord of the Night (Nov 18, 2009)

Doelago said:


> Out of the 16 stale period novels those are the pretty much the four worth reading.


There's more than just those four. Deathfire was very enjoyable, Path of Heaven was fantastic (but it's Chris Wraight's White Scars so that's obvious), Angels of Caliban was also very good, and I quite enjoyed Angel Exterminatus, though McNeill should have limited himself to returning Forrix, Kroeger and Falk. (Toramino and Berossus were too much, Vul Bronn I don't really count because he only appeared in one short story.)



Doelago said:


> This is heresy and *I will fight you* with a knife 1v1.


Heresy is what I do. >


LotN


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Of the later, "dull" period, Betrayer, Scars, Angel Exterminatus, Path of Heaven and Unremembered Empire are about the best of it. The Salamanders novels are fucking dreadful, while all the Shattered Legions and Knights Errant shorts are just tedious to try and keep up with without doing anything worthwhile for the story. I've recently finished Preatorian of Dorn, and while it made me sick to the back teeth of the whole Alpha Legion ninjainfiltratorsaboteursupersecretspy shit, the story has now reached the Sol System, and we finally get to see Dorn in action. Which is all good.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

Batarang said:


> Wow... very imperesive cover.  I just got the first 2 volumes and the graphic novel of The Horus Heresy series, i can't wait for the books to arrive. I'm so excited. Why did you quit the series Oldman78 ? writing gets bad in later books or something ?


Sorry for the late reply, not only does the story get stale but in my opinion the quality of the writing goes to absolute garbage, nonsensical plot twists, just generally very poor, I get angry thinking about how shit it is


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

The Master of Mankind releases this saturday. *excited*


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