# Art question - The emperor of mankind.



## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

Hi, im a digital artist whos doing a picture as some prize support for a local convention. While not a 40k'r i do appreciate the art in it, and have the big ass art book, which is awesome btw. 

Im doing the image as an update to an existing image i have seen in the artbook, but which troubles me on a few points of detail. Im really hoping that being seasoned 40'kers, you guys will have the answers i seek.

The image in question is that of the fallen god emperor on his throne. 

Now, here come the thing that trouble me/ seem to contradict from what i have researched.

The emperor received a variety of injuries, listed on wikipedia in his battle with horus. 

The tendons of his right arm were slashed so he could not hold his weapon. 
His neck/jugular was slashed or partially cut at some point.
His right arm was ripped from its socket.
One of his eyes was ruptured. 
His chest was slashed. 
The flesh was burned from his face. 

However, the image of the emperor on the throne most notably misses out on the right arm being severed. However, to keep in continuity, i plant to have it with the emperor even if it is severed, but being maintained as he is.

The second issue, and the dominant visual one, is that it is mentioned that the chair sustained his life, and is as such tended to with great regularity. However, the image shows the mechanisms to be in very poor condition, and the scene looks like the emperor has not been so much as looked at in decades. His robes are white and tattered. The least i would have expected is that his outward appearance be more maintained, even if the newer cloth is just a throw, or ceremonial covering because they cant move the body. 

The last question is to do with the emperors sword. Was it of special build or significance. If so, would it not be kept with him , should i include it in the image? Or was it passed in canon onto someone else. Similarly, is there any canon reason why the emperors robes would be left to go into bad condition, or the machines look poorly that im missing.

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can bring.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

what pictures are you looking at, eva?


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

You raise some good points indeed, especially about the Emperor and his current state, his clothing I would expect to be immaculate, the same as the machines, and I think his sword would be by his side, many times in history great heroes weapons are left with them, usually with some significance to the afterlife etc.


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## MarzM (Jan 26, 2007)

Well in the fluff (background) the Emperor could have been resurrected. Perhaps surgins re-attached his arm while he was being kept in stasis while the Golden Throne was being built.


MarzM :mrgreen:


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

Thanks for all the info thus far guys.

Im looking at page 116 of ' The art of warhammer 40 k'. 

The reason in my current plan doodles that i keep the sword with him is that he is not dead, so they would definitely not take away the sword, methinks. But if it was just a plain old 40 k weapon, nothing special they probably wouldn't bother leaving it with him. Does anyone know if the sword was especially special?
As for the arm issue, im somewhat inclined to have it semi detached, because i want the image to resolve some of the disparities between that image and the account of what had happened during the battle. I also in visual terms want to bring it up to more along the lines of the 2004 reimagining of the horus/ emperor battle, in terms of iconograpgy, and the use of colour with the emperor, red and gold. So, im kind of updating the throne image to be in line with that reimagining. 

Im thinking in terms of clothing that they would not touch the body from sheer fear of doing something/ it being sacred, so they may use forms of throws or cloth draped over, rather than being actually worn. I also in the doodles have the sword laid across his arms. 

Ill def keep you guys updated as i go. 

Is all that stuff on the wiki about injuries accurate though, or is that all fluff too.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Ohhh thats totally different, really. Pretty much.

That is John Blanche's work. Everything he does is depicted with a grimy, used look.

But your right, he is depcited like a dustball there. I'd ignore that, it is John Blanche and it is his view and it is often messy.

If you were to create a picture, you should have him clean like a whistle, immaculate, but retain those injuries. His right eye is totally gone- and his face flesh is gone. Also, keep in mind the Emperor did recieve more than physical injuries. His fierce mental battle was won, defeating Horus, yet he was rendered nigh nonexistant with his grevious loss of everything bodily due to the force of the battle.

It is known that his physical form is truely decaying, yet it is rigrously well maintained to the best of the priests' abilities.

That is why traitor to the Imperium call him the "Corpse God" as that is basically, and i say it begrudgingly, he is. 

You are right about the arm though--but in the 40k world, anything can be replaced cybernetically and in that picture it looks like it has flesh, but in 40k that is possible. "Synth-skin" i think it is called.

Also--fluff is accurate. The "Fluff" is generally always considered fact. Some fluff is disputed as it may partially conflict with previous "fluff" but then it is just pretty much considered an error of record in the various Adeptus' logs.

Another reason fluff may be disputed is that some people think only things such as Codices (40k rule books) and the Main Rulebook contain the true fluff.

However, 99.99 percent of us agree that any publication in the name of 40k is fact, as the 40k universe is a HUGE one with many possiblities and therefore adding to it only makes it better.


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## death_of_life (Jul 2, 2007)

can somebody post the link for a picture of this?

i cant find one.....


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Its in a book, i dont think they have the book available online--the images are just too good to have floating on the net for free. :| 

"The Art of Warhammer 40,000"-


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## Commissar_Mike (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm pretty sure there's a picture of the Emperor fighting Horus in the main rulebook. If I remember correctly, he had a giant golden power-sword swathed in psychic fire. Although it wouldn't be taken from him, I don't think that he'd want it laying on him for hundreds of years either.

BTW, I'm new. What's up guys?


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Whats up Mike! 

That is true, he had a flaming sword.

I'm not sure if it was uber special though, but id say anything of the Emperor's was sepcial.


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

I'd think the Golden Throne would be more of a sarcophagus, shutting the Emperor's physical appearance away inside like Inquisitor Gideon Ravenor. But in the Emperor's case, an exact likeness of his prouder days would be sculpted into the sarcophagus almost making it seem to be a massive suit of armor upon a throne. His armor and weapons would most likely have been sundered during his battle with Horus and the pieces dispersed to the relic vaults on Terra or even Ophelia VII and spread throughout the segmentums' major temples.
I see something like Dante of the Blood Angels mixed with the Emperor vs Horus with the flaming sword but sitting akin to Marneus Calgar flanked by his Eagle-helmed guards.


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## hephesto (Feb 24, 2007)

There have been a number of pics/art of the golden throne and the emperor in his current more or less dead state. I'll have a look around (can't sleep) and I'll PM them to you (GW probably wouldn't be to happy with me just posting the stuff :wink


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## hephesto (Feb 24, 2007)

Done, check your PM for what will hopefully be some useful materials :wink:





Commissar_Mike said:


> BTW, I'm new. What's up guys?


And hello to you to, hope you'll enjoy your time here mate!


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

From some fluff ive seen its said that not everything of the emperor was recovered so possibly the sword was lost on horus's ship and also remember a bit about what was recovered from the armor was melted down and used for the eagle thingy or something special on termy armor,


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

yee olde under drawing before painting. fluff accuracy/ feedback appreciated.




direct link
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9004/emperortotalbfu4.jpg


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

Pretty damned good.

Its hard to criticize and give great information about the things you asked--noone knows exactly how the emperor looks atm. 

But i think you did a marvelous job.  

Will you be sticking around to post about 40k stuff?


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Wrath of Khaine said:


> I'd think the Golden Throne would be more of a sarcophagus, shutting the Emperor's physical appearance away inside like Inquisitor Gideon Ravenor. But in the Emperor's case, an exact likeness of his prouder days would be sculpted into the sarcophagus almost making it seem to be a massive suit of armor upon a throne. His armor and weapons would most likely have been sundered during his battle with Horus and the pieces dispersed to the relic vaults on Terra or even Ophelia VII and spread throughout the segmentums' major temples.
> I see something like Dante of the Blood Angels mixed with the Emperor vs Horus with the flaming sword but sitting akin to Marneus Calgar flanked by his Eagle-helmed guards.



Wow, that's one helluva'n idea. The sarcophagus looking "whole" while the Emperor inside isn't. I hadn't thought of that.


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

Thanks. Imeant stuff like i maintained the belt from the modern emperor vs horus image. And i included a lot of the distinctive wax sealed scrolls i see in a lot of space marine images. WHta i guess i meant was, thus far does it look like something from 40 k. Is there any piece of iconography or logo missing that might be there. ( emperial logo etc) In terms of colours i plan to dominate in golden hues, reds to match the scheme of the emperors uniform in said emperor vs horus image, and then work in some cooler colours for the background. 

As for posting
hahha, i dunno, i think what i know of 40 k could be put fairly easily on a sheet of A4 paper. Having said that, this is def where ill be reading up on 40 k, and if i have questions, you can bet ill ask them.

edit , while i though what was being said about a full enclosure was interesting, The fluff would indicate that the golden throne was not meant to carry out the role it does now. So i wanted it to have a slightly bodged feel. Also, and more primarily, it would prevent me from actually drawing the emperor himself. I also in the image wanted to get across the feeling behind the name 'corpse god'. 

And of course, i wanted to stay true to a lot of the previous imagery of the emperor, which shows him openly.  In particular though, as mentioned before, i wanted to illustrate the extent of injury to him that is described in text, but in none of the images. For that i needed to display him.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

evamonkey said:


> yee olde under drawing before painting. fluff accuracy/ feedback appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well done.

The art skills are certainly there, and it's got lots of all the right "stuff" to make it 40k.

The only thing I'd do different is possibly pull back the "camera" a bit, and show that it is high up on a giant mechanism, make it look really huge. (well...that's the idea at least, that it's huge. It would however work as-is in the idea that people THINK it's huge, but really it's not).

I've got some other 40k art ideas I could throw at you. I've been remiss in doing 40k art (which is odd because I love the material)


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

Well, i had to make the trade off between showing a huge machine, or simiply implying the machinery extends beyond the sheet. If i zoomed out, the emperor would be proportionally smaller on the page, thus less visible, and his injuries less obvious. 

The final painted a2 /a1 size will be prize support at a local 40 k tournament. My only real concern was whether it would look like its part of the 40 k universe. So it certainly takes the edge off knowing it seems to be being accepted.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

I think the implication works. The detail is great. And I think you're right, I think the tradeoff is necissary...you'd lose all that detail if you went the other way.

It's good stuff.

Things that can help make it fit even more: (just options)
1. Look at a lot of the 40 art and you'll see more tubes going in to the head and body. Like the metal, segmented kind. Porting out of the skull, and possibly tying in to organs etc.

2. Keep the lips, but have them withdrawn (rictus-like). 

3. More Eagle Motif Bits, maybe on a banner (an Aquila), maybe have a banner hanging on the right-hand side.

I honestly can't think of anything else. It looks fab the way it is, and these are just brainstormy ideas for additions, though again, it's already really good.


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

Thanks man. This may sound mildly stupid. but.

Can you guys see the image on imageshack. It refuses to load for me. hahaha.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Yup., it's showing.


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## hephesto (Feb 24, 2007)

amazing, never figured it would turn out this detailed. My compliments, really great work. Can't wait to see how it will eventually turn out!!


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## Sei 'fir (Mar 23, 2007)

yeah i agree with WoK i too thoughtth golden throne was a giant sarcophagus


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Very nice dude, I love the reflections on the sword. Its amazing what work you've done. I'm so jeolous.


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## pathwinder14 (Dec 27, 2006)

Lovely work. I agree with Elchimpster. If you give it a viewing angle that is looking up at the Emperor on some sort of dias, the peice will convey a much more powerful presence, similar to the renaisance paintings of biblical figures.

The only other thing I'd suggest would be to tone down the skull face. Give his face some flesh. Make it look emaciated sure, but if you remove the skin you detach it from humanity and only associate it with death. The Emperor did not die, even though he was mortally wounded. The throne sustains his life energy. If you give him a weathered human face, then people can associate with it better.


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

The local nerds and shop owner gave it the green light, so, im going to take it to paint now. 

The reason the face is mostly skull like lies to the fact that the fluff says the flesh was completely blown off his face( to the point one of his eyes was completely destroyed). So, im trying to go by that as much as possible. 

Remember, what im going for here is - corpse god. 

While a low angle shot would make him look bigger,it would also mean i wouldnt have been able to draw a good chunk of him namely lower arms, lower abdomen etc, because from that angle the chair and his own mass would obscure a lot of him. And since i wanted to show off his injuries, thiese were elements i wasnt willing to lose. 

Elchimpester, i was thinking of putting a large logo in the upper right area on the machinery, but i recently heard that the emperors symbol was a lightning bolt, not the eagle, can anyone shed any light on this? If the machine was indeed buiult pre heresy as i have heard, as part of the emperors attempts to map the warp, would it have a lightning bolt, rather than a double head eagle? 

Also, i have to be vary careful making additions in how they interact with the spiral pattern overall in the image, so ill probably add the logo directly onto the machine embossed or inlaid, rather than draping another banner around in the image.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

You could have a kind of embossed eagle with romanesque three lightning bolts coming downward from the eagle.

http://www.heresy-online.net/download.php?id=67

Sorry for the crappy pic, paint and being at work and all.


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## Anphicar (Dec 31, 2006)

evamonkey said:


> The local nerds


BAN!

:lol: JK.

I know the lightning bolt design is indeed the sign of the Emperor, at least it was before the Heresy.

I do know the Custodes wear the bolt rather than the eagle.

I have no access to older resources of fluff, perhaps someone who has been playing longer can say exactly why the change occured. :?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

The Eagle represents the allilliance between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Emporer - the two heads is the man part of it.

For some reason I seem to think it may also represent looking back to the past and also forward into the future. Although that may be something else. I'm pretty sure on the first reason.


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

I don't use nerd as an insult you must understand. I myself am a huge nerd with a sprinkling of dork for flavour. I believe in nerd pride. And just as other minorities have absorbed the hate words used against them, so too do i wish terms like 'nerd', 'dork' and 'commander of vast virgin armies' to be things we can say with pride. 

Seriously though, being a dork has been cool ever since spiderman 1 came out. People of... minority hobbyist persuasions can graze freely, and even discuss sci fi, role play, anime , ccg and table top subjects in public places. 

Hollywood companies are falling over each other to make movies based on the franchises we championed for years in the dark, like freaking cult members. 

I swear to god, we have never had it this good. So while the going is good, i for one, am taking out those hate names.


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## Elchimpster (Jan 31, 2007)

Yeah, just read Fulgrim, and a part of it, with the Emperor's Children being the only Legion allowed to wear the Emperor's symbol...the eagle...so yeah, the Eagle is his symbol, at least as far as the Black Library gurus are saying (determined by Graham McNeil and Dan Abnett who are in charge of the yay or nay of any fluff changes in the HH series).


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Maybe something like the Renegade Militia? They have sheet-like masks, and the tubes go through holes punched in the fabric. Something like that I suppose. I would guess as a Heretic (Death Guard), the Corpse God is probably covered in sacred sheets from his sacred bed, or just a curtain that Rogal Dorn took off the wall. As a Loyalist (Mountain Angels), I would say the Divine Emperor of Mankind would have the Adeptus Custodes change his shroud twice a week, to keep him looking fresh and clean.

Squeaky clean.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
-Dirge


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## Wrath of Khaine (Dec 29, 2006)

Actually El, it mentioned in Fulgrim when he is admiring the sculpture, the Emperor's signature lightning bolts are throughout his armor, most prominently on his gauntlets and legs.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Ok so the eagle actually means a lot more than the alliance between Mars and Terra. This is what the entry in The Inquistion has to say about it all.

"The sighted head represents the Adeptus Astra Astronimica, the blind head represents the Adeptus Astronomica; the right wing represents the Adeptus Mechanicus, the body the Adeptus Custodes; the crooked claw represents the Arbites and the straight claw the Administration"

You've probably finished it all by now though lol.


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## Viscount Vash (Jan 3, 2007)

I like that alot mate and would be happy to recieve such a class prize.

It does not show full size on my screen so I might have missed them , but I could not see much of the Imperial Eagle on the throne or the main man.

Thats pretty elegant for a power sword they are usally a bit wider in the blade than that. But to be honest if anyone gets to picky about it poke them in the eye for being a cretin. Ow :cyclops: .

Lovely artwork mate please let us see the final results


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

Sorry for the delay guys, but a copy of image was requested to be sent to the GW head offices, so i didnt know if i should show it here, its been a month so, im fairly sure its not a problem.  


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9578/emperorfinishednethd2.jpg

Note, the actual print out is naturally much darker.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Wow dude - thats brillaint. Love the contrast and richness of the colours. That chest wound looks nasty. Photoshopped is it?

Have you heard weather they are going to use it or not?


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

urm... oh wow holy crap thats friggen awsome.. think thats all that can be said.. great job on that.. things i only can hope to aspire to one day, i enjoy doing 40k artwork as well so this is friggen awsome


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## evamonkey (Jul 29, 2007)

thanks guys. means a lot that fans like it. I was kind of surprised at the con because i thought it would be added to the first place prize, but it was the first place prize hahaha. I kept thinking if i had come first id feel robbed, as second got like a hundred euro of GW stuff.

They have the master file on CD, and my contact details. Needless to say, if they wanted to use it, i sure wouldnt stop them.


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## DaemonsR'us (Jan 25, 2007)

Wow evam thats friggen awsome though, having it as the first place prize, im sure alot of people would be impressed to have a original copy... at least in our warhammer community


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## Initiate (Mar 25, 2007)

evamonkey YOU ROCK!!!


i present you with Mr. Green :mrgreen:


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Wow I just now looked back into this thread and saw the pic. Damn nice work mate.


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## Gizor (Oct 1, 2007)

Wow, I see that and imagine a stalwart Imperial cultist coming in and seeing the "God Emperor" as he really is and his or her entire world falling apart. (though I know the Custodes definately do a good job of securing him, just a fancy) 

Very nice work, I can definately see the Black Legion rallying under a banner with that likeness.


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