# Chaos Space Marine Army



## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

So far i have 2 CSM squads, a Ksons squad, and a possesed squad

As an HQ i have a chaos lord in termi armor

any ideas on where to expand for a good balanced list???


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Two daemon princes, one squad of zerkers, three rhinos, nine obliterators, and two squads of plague marines.


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

/\ play that list, and 99% of the time you will get punched in the face and
l no one will play you. For balance i would say get around 0-1
l more Berzerkers squad 1-2 thousand sones 1-2 squads of noise marines 
l and 1-2 squads of plague marines and then get a demon prince. That 
l Way you will be able to field an army that has a few different roles. As
l you start playing more your stare leaning towards a play style and god,
:ireful2: like 1k sones or berzerker rush or plague marine walking and then mech or foot sloggers


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

haha fasho 
do u have any suggestions for making regular CSMs worth while?


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

*Chaos Space Marine assistance*

I run with CSMs

and i need some assistance in taking down some special SM unts

landspeeders, landraiders, and devi squads are given me problems

and suggestions on units, how to equip them, and how to use them?


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

i would recommend doing what lordwaffles said, unless you are very competitive or playing in a tournament. If you use that list a lot you will not be able to find anyone to play against or you might even earn a punch if there is anyone you play against who has a short temper


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

Chosen (particularly with melta guns) are a fantastic unit. Their infiltrate ability allows them to get close very early and start popping tanks. A Chosen Champion is also the cheapest unit that can be possessed by a Greater Daemon, which normally means that Daemon will pop in close with the enemy.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

xCr0okz- said:


> I run with CSMs
> 
> and i need some assistance in taking down some special SM unts
> 
> ...


Obliterator lascannons for the land speeder.

Melta Chosen for Land Raider, or deep striking Obliterators in Melta range.

A psyker with Lash of Submission should be able to drag Devastator squads into the open where they can be hacked apart by all of our wonderful CC specialists.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Gul Torgo said:


> Obliterator lascannons for the land speeder.
> 
> Melta Chosen for Land Raider, or deep striking Obliterators in Melta range.
> 
> A psyker with Lash of Submission should be able to drag Devastator squads into the open where they can be hacked apart by all of our wonderful CC specialists.


What did I just goddamn say!?

Thanks Gul Torgo, you have my spinal column in mind.

Regardless if people want to punch you in the face, break their weak fist with the overwhelming might of your face. See how the sissy can't hit back your powerful list that GW forces us to play if we want to win.


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

> Thanks Gul Torgo, you have my spinal column in mind.
> 
> Regardless if people want to punch you in the face, break their weak fist with the overwhelming might of your face. See how the sissy can't hit back your powerful list that GW *forces* us to play if we want to win.


A balanced CSM list can still rip people in half. That list is the most OP thing invented. You have Obliterators which are RIDICULOUSLY under costed. Compare it to say, a necron heavy destroyer, or a squad of havocs. Couple that with Lash princes and its just dumb. You take out their only defense(cover) by using a power. In my and everyone I plays opinion this is basicaly the most OP list in the game. I have seen this 2k list wipe out 5k points of the opponents army in a 10k team apocalypse battle. In addition to that, it is not fluffy at all, which is what chaos revolves around. Nurgle, slaanesh, and khorne in the same army? No. Only Horus could have this happen. This would never happen under the new *horus* (abbadon) who could get spanked by the emperor even though he's 1/2 dead. I'm sorry for my rant, but i have seen sooo many other lists works in chaos and still be fully fluffy that i just get a bit ticked when this list is used.

Back on topic. normal CSM can be equipped however you want, but i lean towards CC. I've seen a horde (yes horde) army of around 60 generic marines all marked with PF and MOK for 2 squads of 20, and then 2 squads of 10 with the MOS and PW and then a sorc with LOS. It actualy did quite well against my Khorne Berzerker army. I won with the Zerkers, but it was mainly due to him taking his sorc out of his unit right in front of my LR 2nd turn.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

nice all sounds good
but yea so i have a 500 tourney coming up at my local GW
and i have a termi sorcerer, a termi lord, 2 CSM sqauds, a ksons squad, possesed and a rhino
can any one help me out to put together a list that will do well against most opponents with what i have for 500 points???
any help would be greatly appreciated


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

123birds said:


> A balanced CSM list can still rip people in half.


It can rip bad lists in half. And define balanced? Having lashing princes/blits/zerks/plagues is balanced offense and defense wise.



123birds said:


> That list is the most OP thing invented. You have Obliterators which are RIDICULOUSLY under costed. Compare it to say, a necron heavy destroyer, or a squad of havocs. Couple that with Lash princes and its just dumb. You take out their only defense(cover) by using a power.


Herpaderp tactical advantage. Welcome to a war game.



123birds said:


> In my and everyone I plays opinion this is basicaly the most OP list in the game. I have seen this 2k list wipe out 5k points of the opponents army in a 10k team apocalypse battle. In addition to that, it is not fluffy at all, which is what chaos revolves around.


oh-ho~ fluff you say? We don't have any. We're all warbands and the gods don't have any animosity. Welcome to fourth edition.

And nob bikers/eldar seer council/bolter bitches. They play just as well.

Hell if somebody took 5k worth of grot squads and played badly, I could kill them with just a land raider.



123birds said:


> Nurgle, slaanesh, and khorne in the same army? No. Only Horus could have this happen. This would never happen under the new *horus* (abbadon) who could get spanked by the emperor even though he's 1/2 dead. I'm sorry for my rant, but i have seen sooo many other lists works in chaos and still be fully fluffy that i just get a bit ticked when this list is used.


They can be fully fluffy, they'll just play like shit.



123birds said:


> Back on topic. normal CSM can be equipped however you want, but i lean towards CC. I've seen a horde (yes horde) army of around 60 generic marines all marked with PF and MOK for 2 squads of 20, and then 2 squads of 10 with the MOS and PW and then a sorc with LOS. It actualy did quite well against my Khorne Berzerker army. I won with the Zerkers, but it was mainly due to him taking his sorc out of his unit right in front of my LR 2nd turn.


The only way you could have possibly lost that encounter is if his marines got the fabius bile upgrade for free. Now think if you had a lashing prince? You'd get the charge and beat down THOSE monsters. Lash is awesome.

As for basic marines, arm them(if you MUST take them) with two special weapons and a powerfist.


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

I'm just not going to say anything else waffle. So heres a balanced list with what you have. 
Lord 160
-Termi Armor
-Daemon Weapon
-MoS
-Combi Melta
_Good Character killer, and can kill monstrous creatures thanks to instant death_

5xKhorne Berzerkers 180
-Skull Champ
-PF
-Rhino
_Will kill most things when it gets into combat. Will also be a distraction for your opponents tank fire_

6xMarine 160
-Champ
-Combi Melta
-Power Weapon
-MoS
-Melta Gun
_Will do well against infantry due to high iniative and can kill tanks once within range. Lord goes here._
Total: 500
So basicaly you have 1 melta and 2 combi meltas for tanks, the Berzerkers who can kill most infantry and the PF for against high T and characters and tanks, 5 slaanesh marked marines with PW for killing infantry squads, since they will strike first against MEQ's. And then the Lord for killing infantry, characters, and monstrous creatures thanks to instrant death. Or you could switch the Lord for a Sorc and drop the 6th CSM for this
Sorc 175
-MoS
-LoS
-Termi armour 
-Combi Melta
-familiar
-Warp time
_Good support, using lash to bring things towards you to get in CC faster, or put thos pesky heavy weapon teams somwhere where they have to move to be in LOS making them unable to fire. Due to WT can also do well in CC against characters and Monstrous Creatures? (dont know rules for 5th edition force weapons)._


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

did a necron player seriously just call someone overpowered?


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

haha waffles i think u might be taking this thig a little too seriously but thx 4 the list birds
the one thing is i know my buddy will be bringing a LR and idk how to get the meltas close enough to pop it
and also i dont have beserkers yet 
so i might need an alternative


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## NoiseMarine (Jun 8, 2008)

xCr0okz- said:


> haha waffles i think u might be taking this thig a little too seriously but thx 4 the list birds
> the one thing is i know my buddy will be bringing a LR and idk how to get the meltas close enough to pop it
> and also i dont have beserkers yet
> so i might need an alternative


 infiltrating chosen in a rhino with melta guns should pop it. hopefully


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

can u infiltrate in a tranport if is dedicated?


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

NoiseMarine said:


> did a necron player seriously just call someone overpowered?


You are joking right? Necrons got their shit funked by 5th Edition. One of the bottom rung armies currently in my opinion.

If the unit has the infiltrate rule then yes. But you have to come on in the Transport, not besides it or whatever


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

Oh, i thought you said you had a khorne squad, but then i saw you had 1k sons lol. yes, you can infiltrate a transport im pretty sure. Seriously though, how can you fit a LR into a 500 point list. Are you guys playing you need 2 troop and an HQ cause he will be seriously under powered if 1/2 his points are in 1 vehicle, and he still has to fit 2 troop and an HQ into a margin of 250 points. Also noise, by "did a necron player seriously just call someone overpowered" i don't know what you mean. It is actualy a kinda underpowered race. We have NOTHING that can do anything in close combat, our HQ sucks(C'tan argueably, but it can just be ignored). our troops get killed soooo easily. the only thing i can say we have that is a bit OP is a monolith, but where i play 5 lascannons is the minimum in most armies, so it goes down pretty quick, and an alternitive tactic is to just ignore it. Our vehicle is also weaker than a landraider. I know that by saying that you think im wacko, but a monolith NEVER has cover, has no smokes, only can move 6 inches a turn. Our codex was made in like 3rd edition. So please do not call necrons OP. Kill the warriors and you will win. 

EDIT: Argggggggggg!!!!! you beat me to it by 1 minute Concrete hero. lol


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## Concrete Hero (Jun 9, 2008)

I am Ninja Masta!

Oh and don't forget Assault spells absolute doom for Necrons 123birds


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

:suicide:haha yea true true but i heard that a new codex is coming out around october
but yea im trying to figure out how he would fit a LR in there
i also heard him talking about bringing in a chaplian
but i was thinking about using CSMs as Chosen and loading them up with meltaguns to deal with it or at least distract it so i can move and kill everything else


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

The reason daemon princes and obliterators are so popular is that they answer all these problems. Land raider trouble? Well the DP can beat it up if he's lucky and the obliterators have a choice of lascannons, multi-meltas and twin linked melta guns. In any case, if he's charging towards you in a land raider, that's good news.

Jasonfly and 123 Birds please note that punching somebody because of their army selection in a game of toy soldiers is one of the most pathetic things imaginable. Seriously, Waffles says the same thing every time somebody mentions a chaos army and people rise to it every time.

Waffles, change the record. A 9 obliterator list isn't really optimal at that points value. Don't be lazy.


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## mrrshann618 (Jun 6, 2008)

Melta are your friends, especially in a unit that you want to charge with afterwards. I'm going to give a small voice of opposition. Yes Obliterators are a very cheap and versitile unit. However, I find them vulnerable to small arms fire. I just started to run 2 Preds and a Vindicator, I have had far more success with those as my heavy choices. While they can not DS in and blow the crud out a a unit from behind, those tripple LC can reach across the table, put that tank behind a low bush or wall, and you get a 4+ cover save to boot.


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

Crookz, those chosen with melta are great for tanks. Problem is that at 500 points you can't field them without troops having no gear at all. Just go fore combi and melta guns in the squads, as 3 shots should suffice a game if used corretley.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

true true i tried to include them but i couldnt get a decent 500 point list
sooo this is wat i have so far

Sorcerer-MoS, LoS -125
Zerkers- 5x,champ w/ PW -135
CSM-10x, champ w/ meltabombs , meltagun, missle launcher-170
rhino- either combi or havoc launcher, deamonic possesion -70
total:500

i have to use 1 list for the whole tourney so give me some feedback


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## 123birds (May 17, 2009)

Decent list but their are a few problems
Sorc-good pick. Will do well with the Zerkers, though proxying something as kharn the betrayer will help if your so worried about tanks. Hes 40 points more, and pure killyness +he gets 2d6 pen and is immune to phykic powers.

Zerkers-Good, combat oriented set up, Only problem i see is that with a PF they strike last, but will be able to kill things on a 3+ followed by a 2+ instead of 3+3+ if you get the charge off or 3+4+ without charge. It also instant deaths characters which is always a good thing

CSM-Heavy weapon, melta bomb and a melta gun. Never set up a squad like this:nono:as it will either be moving or firing the heavy weapon, and most people won't put a vehicle next to the squad unless its something like a rhino that they dont care about at all. It's better to just make CSM for CC, as none of the heavy weapons that a vanila CSM squad can take are worth it, its pretty much a waste of 9 other men. I'm telling you, when in range combi-meltas will do the trick against vehicles. I also think your points are off, as a normal squad with champ and melta bombs is 170. Plasma pistols also do the trick. 

Rhino-Havoc launchers are a big no IMO. They cost as much as a SM and since you'll normaly be moving full distance. Daemonic possession is also a no on a rhino. Too much, as it never shoots. Just give it extra armor if anything. The main advantage of rhinos is that they are dirt cheap.


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

fasho thx
so wat might u recommend 4 the CSM squad as a good fire support 4 holding objectivs or otherwise a strong unit 4 kill points 4 around the same point cost
and yea throwing kharn in the mix is a good idea
but even 4 such a low cost game???
I like having the lash to pull a squad in 4 the zerkers 2 pummel on
i also like the PC idea b/c the sorcerer is In 6 so I would have a wide range of attacks


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I disagree. Use moar chaos spawns. The enemy will never expect it!

And they go together great with a lash sorceror, that way you can coordinate their somewhat bizzarre movements with just a psychic test. Trust me, they start getting amazing right there. Since they don't have any frag grenades and count as SaP for assault, just assault things that you know won't cause three wounds to T6. Five man tac squad? I'm looking at you.


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

Concrete Hero said:


> If the unit has the infiltrate rule then yes. But you have to come on in the Transport, not besides it or whatever


Sorry, but where in the rulebook is it stated that you can inflitrate with a transpoter. So far as I know, you can just outflank in an transporter, but not infiltrating!


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## xCr0okz- (Jul 20, 2009)

yea im not sure but if u take it as a dedicated you might be able to
but yea thats a good idea but not 4 my 500 hundred point range waffles 
if you could suggest a 500 point list with wat i have i would appreciate it


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