# daemons vs null zone



## yamnosaj (Apr 3, 2010)

I have recently devised a list that I am quite proud of save for the fact that against null zone I always get my ass well and truly handed to me. Does anyone have any helpful tips on how to survive against this. 

The Librarian is either put in a drop pod or a rino and just absolutely rips me apart with null zone. I've tried flamers but they never inflict enough wounds. My combat units don't survive long enough to get into base to base. I just don't know.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

What does the Null Zone do?


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

darklove said:


> What does the Null Zone do?


Makes your re-roll your successfully invu saves. Very brutal verse daemons.

I would try to shoot the Liberian with a soul grinder. Yet I'm not really a chaos daemon player so I wouldn't know how effective this is.


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## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

Dunno what Chaos God you're playing, but I promise that if you assault with any Khorne models or a unit of Fiends of Slaanesh and allocate about a third of your total attacks to the Librarian, that Librarian will be very dead before your models have to start throwing Invulnerable saves. Two wounds, I4, WS5, no invulnerable save himself, is just bad for the health of any IC in CC.


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## Ferik (Nov 5, 2008)

TimberWolfA said:


> Dunno what Chaos God you're playing, but I promise that if you assault with any Khorne models or a unit of Fiends of Slaanesh and allocate about a third of your total attacks to the Librarian, that Librarian will be very dead before your models have to start throwing Invulnerable saves. Two wounds, I4, WS5, no invulnerable save himself, is just bad for the health of any IC in CC.


Not necessarily true you can eguip them with Termie armour for a 5++ save or even better a stormshield for the 3++ save which I myself normally do, but as you said mass combat attacks on the libby unit should do the trick if said units are still alive after the marines initial attack on the deamon forces.

Also something else to keep in mind is utilize cover more which you should try to do since most deamon saves suck doing so will negate null zone almost entirely.


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## Deus Mortis (Jun 20, 2009)

Also, psychic powers last a full turn (unless stated otherwise, like the quickening lasts one assault phase only [I believe]). So if he casts null zone, it lasts the full assault/shooting phase, even if the psyker is killed. But I could be wrong on that front!

Adressing the actual question, I have 2 thoughts:
1) Plaguebearers. T5 (I believe, ages since I looked at a deamon codex), have feel no pain which basically gives you 2 lots of 4+ saves, and poisoned weapons, which means re-rolls in combat. Enough attacks will bring him down.
2) Daemonettes. I 5 so can kill him before he strikes them, 3/4 attacks on a charge (can't remember how many base) and rending. Enough attacks, or against a power armoured/terminator armoured but no storm shield, a couple of rending attack will put him down.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter though, someone might have a better plan.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Against Null Zone you pretty much just suck it up an lose. You have no psychic defence and no real option of not being within 24"'s of him. 

Just one of those bad luck situations. I'm not saying you will definitely lose, but the odds are quite literally stacked against you. You'll fail 90% of your 5+ saves and 75% of your 4+ ones. If you can get him into combat do it as soon as you can, direct your attacks into him and see if that works. 

Aramoro


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I like to cry, personally.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I reckon using a Greater daemon like a Lord of Change (has best save) and rushing into combat can solve this. Once in combat the libby cannot cast psychic powers.


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## yamnosaj (Apr 3, 2010)

A couple of things he suggested was (as he usually drops the librarian in a drop pod with the sternguard) was to go second so the drop pod lands and then I can scatter my daemons away from him. And the other was to use cover A LOT more. 

my biggest problem as I already said was my combat units (bloodletters, I play a khorne/tzeentch list) get shot down WAAAAAAY before they can even reach him. I know once he's in combat he's dead, but I can't even get that far at the moment.

I tried a Lord of Change list and he got bolted down. I had 4 saves to make, passed them all first time, failed them all the second time. Brilliant. 

Also reading through this someone said if the libby is in combat he can't use psychic powers? Is that true? 

My list is 2 tzeench heralds on chariots with all the bizz, 2 sets of three flamers, 3 crushers (1 icon, 1 fury), 12 bloodletters, 13 bloodletters, 5 horrors (bolt and changling) horrors (bolt) and two soul grinders with phlegm. His is 5 assault squads (10 in each, all with rinos) sternguard with libby (in a drop pod) and a cannon. 
All that I can handle except the freaking null zone, it just destroys me.


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## TimberWolfA (Jan 12, 2010)

Ferik said:


> Not necessarily true you can eguip them with Termie armour for a 5++ save or even better a stormshield for the 3++ save which I myself normally do, but as you said mass combat attacks on the libby unit should do the trick if said units are still alive after the marines initial attack on the deamon forces.
> 
> Also something else to keep in mind is utilize cover more which you should try to do since most deamon saves suck doing so will negate null zone almost entirely.


Apparently I 'forgot' that Null Zone is an actively used power and not an ongoing effect, my apologies, straight up SM are not so familiar to me. However, my point was that between one and two dozen S5 attacks levied on that Libby in CC (since you can do that since he's an IC and counts as a separate unit in assault) will end his threat very quickly. I guess it will only help starting next turn though. Ooh, look how awesome reading is... Null Zone can only be cast at the beginning of the Librarian's shooting phase and expires at the end of the player turn, which means when you assault and kill him Null Zone won't be active and you won't have anything to worry about; case solved.

You should try something like a kitted out unit of 5 Crushers. Remember that the Crushers are S5 T5 and have 3+ armor saves. His Sternguard can wound you on 2's and let you have armor saves (which Null Zone won't affect) or he can ignore your armor and wound on 5s. That should let those boys wander in there and just start breaking MEQs apart with their 4 powered attacks each at S6 and I5 on the charge (oh my freaking goodness MEQs die so fast to Bloodcrushers).


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## Cruor99 (Mar 11, 2009)

Well, if he drops him in with Sternguard... Then you are in luck! Most just hole him up inside a land raider where we can't get to him.

Take 2nd, if possible, and drop just out of reach of him with Fiends or Seekers (you'll need something fast  ) and then charge him when possible. 

Alternatively, suicide a flamer squad or two into the sternguard. Bolt and breath combined should finish the squad enough to leave the libby alone to get bolted to death.


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