# What do you think of Space Hulk?



## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

Basically what do you think of Space Hulk and what is your favorite mission?

I really like it and my favorite mission is ... er ... cleanse and burn!

Sorry about double post. But also what team do you prefer, nids or termis.

For me it's nids :victory:

Please remember we have an [EDIT] button if you have something you need to add after making a post -G


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## Imperial Dragon (Dec 22, 2007)

Space Hulk is pretty good, i only so far have played the first mission, getting to know the rules, but once my friend also understands i'm sure we will play the other missions.

I enjoy playing as the termies more, but they nids do look pretty fun.


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## immense010 (Feb 3, 2009)

ive only played mission 1 so far, but ive played as both stealers and termies. personally i prefer termies, but genestealers are also really fun. all ill say is the bigger the match the better


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## bitsandkits (Mar 18, 2008)

the games i have played have been as good as ever, seriously impressed with the quality of the box contents,the brood lord is my favorite model in the box and i love playing the "gene-sneakers" as my brother puts it.


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## njfed (Jan 28, 2008)

Four of us have played four games and the Termies are yet to win. We all love the game, but the Nids seem to be the easier side.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

njfed said:


> Four of us have played four games and the Termies are yet to win. We all love the game, but the Nids seem to be the easier side.


You guys probably just haven't got he knack of it yet.
I haven't played, but I'm looking forward to it!

What amuses me, is that technically you can finish the first mission in 1 turn.
It says that when you flame the room, the mission ends IMMEDIATELY.
Since Command Point use is only checked at the end of the turn, and by then you've already won the game, you can use infinite command points to just run your Flamer dude along the board :laugh:

I'd just use a little house rules (it's never said in the rule book!) that 6 uses is the limit to what you can use, no matter what you draw


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Winterous, you beard!

Anyway, I love it, just like last time. :biggrin:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Winterous, you beard!
> 
> Anyway, I love it, just like last time. :biggrin:


...
Why am I a clump of facial hair?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

One-Turn-Win through blatant cheating, that's why! :laugh:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Its easy to win with the Marines...you just phsyic block the stealer and run past >=D


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> One-Turn-Win through blatant cheating, that's why! :laugh:


Ooooooh.
That's certainly a strange term.
I've head 'beardy', but not 'you beard'.


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## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

you beard, lol:laugh:

anyway back on topic has anyone made up scenarios ?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Commander_Culln said:


> you beard, lol:laugh:
> 
> anyway back on topic has anyone made up scenarios ?


No, but you could do some very interesting ones.
I've been thinking about making a campaign, like a series of missions, kinda like the book that comes with the game :laugh:

I haven't played the game yet.
:O


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Winterous said:


> No, but you could do some very interesting ones.
> I've been thinking about making a campaign, like a series of missions, kinda like the book that comes with the game :laugh:
> 
> I haven't played the game yet.
> :O


Would one happen to be Mephiston siting down for a nice cup of tea with the broodlord?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Witch King of Angmar said:


> Would one happen to be Mephiston siting down for a nice cup of tea with the broodlord?


I think you'd call it a Tealord in that instance.
And no actually.
I was thinking more along the lines of:
Plant Bomb, Run The Fuck Away!


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

Winterous said:


> I think you'd call it a Tealord in that instance.
> And no actually.
> I was thinking more along the lines of:
> Genestealer's and the terminators racing to get them the sugar!


Fixed! k:


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

I was really really impressed, I havent had the chance to play the original - I went in to the store on saturday to buy one just because I collect old GW games and didnt want to miss out on this one.

Having played the first mission 4 times now I think it has excellent replay value - and my marines just cant seem to get to that room for the flaming, if anyone has managed it I would love to know how - we had one game get very close but to win would have need the flamer termie to hand to hand a stealer - and it didnt work 

The biggest issue I am having is not being able to walk marines through other marines -otherwise I think the first mission would be much easier.

Anyway, I really like the game - and well beyond just the shininess


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's been a long time since I've played Space Hulk, and I can tell there are a few changes to the rules in the new edition. They all seem pretty solid, though, so I'm really looking forward to getting to play the new edition.

It occured to me there are a ton of things you can use Space Hulk for besides playing Space Hulk. The obvious, of course, is to put the minis on round bases and use 'em in 40k. Less obvious, perhaps is the board itself. Since it's done in squares, you can easily use it for Dark Heresy, D20 Modern, or Star Wars (either the RPG or the collectable minis game). The blips are usable in 40k, if you want to throw back to the old Hidden Setup rules which were always a lot of fun, in my opinion. They also could be used as random-value objective markers-- for example, a blip with a 1 on it could be worth 1 victory point, but one with 3 on it could be worth 3-- and you never know how much that objective is worth until you flip it over and see when there's a unit in range to claim it.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Ooooooh.
> That's certainly a strange term.
> I've head 'beardy', but not 'you beard'.


I enjoy using verbs and adjectives as nouns, and vice-versa.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Bubblematrix said:


> Having played the first mission 4 times now I think it has excellent replay value - and my marines just cant seem to get to that room for the flaming, if anyone has managed it I would love to know how - we had one game get very close but to win would have need the flamer termie to hand to hand a stealer - and it didnt work


I've played that mission several times as well, the best strategy I've come up with is as follows:

in the first room you enter, park a regular marine on the left in overwatch, watching the hall on the right ( blow open the door if you have to )

Send your sergeant forward and go left, use guard stance and advancing shooting to block off the coridor ahead, possibly aided by a second marine to open the door to the flame target.
Meanwhile, use your flamer marine to toss flamer templates into the crossing in the other hallway to block off the genies coming from the 2nd right coridor and down the hallway.
If you manage to do this properly, you will have 1 or 2 maybe even three flamer templates left when it's time for your flamer marine to walk into that crossing, the door to the room having been opened and shoot a flamer template inside.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah sounds like the way we eventually concluded would be the way to do it - think one of us may actually suceed next time we play.

I like that is it close fought for the marines - gives the game a nice long lifetime imho


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

I have a question about the rules actually.
In regards to range, in most situations this question doesn't matter (requires LOS).
But for the purposes of blocking spawn points, and using the Psychic Storm power, how do you measure range around corners?
My best guess is that you 'walk' the range, as in, measure it how you would walk a character.
There's no grid off the board, so you can't measure directly to the target around a corner.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

For Blips etc, it says 6 squares to the Entry Point, which, to me, is the first square they step on. They all have an Auspex, obvs, so it's fine out of LOS. IMO. 

Haven't read the Libby rules yet.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> For Blips etc, it says 6 squares to the Entry Point, which, to me, is the first square they step on. They all have an Auspex, obvs, so it's fine out of LOS. IMO.
> 
> Haven't read the Libby rules yet.


I mean like.
When you're not measuring the distance in a straight line, do you measure it how you'd walk?
ie: Do you have to move around corners? Can you measure a diagonal movement as 1 square?


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Yes, measure as walking - all squares as 1AP, ignore the fact SMs can't turn.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Yes, measure as walking - all squares as 1AP, ignore the fact SMs can't turn.


Measure as the blip runs :laugh:


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

since 1st edition of space hulk speed is existential for the termies to win (in most mission).
if you lag behind only moving one or two squares per round and then set overwatch you will lose. simple as that. it means free support to the genestealerplayer and he just have to mass the nasties up. each round the termies hesitate from taking decisive actions puts the genesteales ahead in numbers. the will have the opportunity to gather at nearly all strategic points just out of your los. when the termies eventually decide to go for it then the numbers and odds are so much against them that no spent command point for clearing jams will save them from being shredded.

my advice: don't hesitate from taking a 1:1 chance. take actions and grab every opportunity! don't just shoot.. move and shoot! it's for free! whenever possible block the genies entrances by moving within 6 squares or setting the whole section on fire, even if there's no genie in it. efectively buying you time. make sure your back is save. position 1 or at max 2 termies with stormbolters in tactically good positions to ensure you're main force isn't ambushed from behind. best bet on killing the broodlord is the assaultgun. with 3 dice it's quite likey that you roll a killing double hit already at your first or second shot at it. don't take chances here or this beast will simply slaughter your whole team. if it's protected with a genie-shield flame them first whenever possible.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> The truth.


This man speaks the truth!

I think most people just think of it as:
Terminators trudge through the corridors, blasting Genestealers when they show up.
In reality, it is:
Terminators run like fuck, desperate to achieve their goal, trying really hard not to die.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Also, lead with the Serg. That way he can survive CC with a Stealer, and maybe even win! You can shoot it, since there's no locking in combat. Also, don't be afraid to shoot doors rather than open, it's quicker, if not easier. Also reveals better LOS - this isn't Dead Space you're playing!


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

TheKingElessar said:


> Also, lead with the Serg. That way he can survive CC with a Stealer, and maybe even win! You can shoot it, since there's no locking in combat. Also, don't be afraid to shoot doors rather than open, it's quicker, if not easier. Also reveals better LOS - this isn't Dead Space you're playing!


Actually the Sergeants are quite good in melee.
The Stealers have a possible score of 1-6, while the sword Sarge has 2-7, he can also make the Stealer reroll his highest die, which means he's a lot less likely to get a 6.
Also if you use Guard (incredible), you're pretty hard to beat.

Normal dudes drop like flies, they simply fail too much in melee; so making sure there is absolute minimum chance of you getting hit is important, and if it's unavoidable, make sure they guard.


And yeah, shooting doors open is a much better thing to do than opening them.
In most situations the door serves no purpose to the Marines other then an obstruction, you don't care about the door, the door is your enemy.
While you run forward, blast it, it's a free shot.


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

well, neither sarge with sword or hammer is really that good in melee vs stealers.. it's mr. lightning claw on guard that will save your day. that 2D6 +1 is even better than the hammer and shield sarge with 1D6 +2. chances are better to compensate a single bad roll with an additional roll..

well, best advice: think marine! move boldly! position cleverly! show no fear! don't let them take the initiative from you!


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> that 2D6 +1 is even better than the hammer and shield sarge with 1D6 +2. chances are better to compensate a single bad roll with an additional roll..


Wait really?
You're crazy, hammer and shield any day!


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

Hell, I just spent over 2 hours just getting the board pieces all separated, counters and blips etc. punched out and the models loosely assembled! This box comes with a ton of stuff! My son set up the first mission board as I was separating the pieces and I must admit, it looks awesome. The pieces have great details and everything seems to be of excellent quality.

Unfortunately I have a board section that was damaged right out of the box. It is badly scored and peeling apart. Also one of the steelers had a hand broken off too. I guess I could call GW to see if they will replace the damaged pieces.

From skimming over the rules they seem to be quite similar to the originals in many respects. I enjoyed playing the game 20 years ago so I don't see why I will not really like it now.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I played 1st mission as Stealers and Termies and won both times, and have played as Stealers in the 2nd mission but lost due to my opponent running down a dead-end side corridor, turning around and going on overwatch with his sole surviving termie. In a single turn he annihilated over 10 Stealers running at him, clearing jams with action points. The turn after he took out another 7. That's 17-18 stealers in 2 turns from one guy. Overwatch is OP when the stealer player has limited reinforcements.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Unforgiven302 said:


> Unfortunately I have a board section that was damaged right out of the box. It is badly scored and peeling apart. Also one of the steelers had a hand broken off too. I guess I could call GW to see if they will replace the damaged pieces.


Give them a call, they should replace the board piece at very least.
If they don't replace the model, just model him to look like his arm was blown off.



Sethis said:


> Overwatch is OP when the stealer player has limited reinforcements.


He just got lucky.
Also you can ONLY clear jams with Command Points, not remaining Action Points, once you end a model's turn, any unused Action Points are wasted.


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Wait really?
> You're crazy, hammer and shield any day!


no. chances are higher to score bad with a single roll, than with two dice.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

I thought if the termie did anything other than shoot then he went off of overwatch?


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> no. chances are higher to score bad with a single roll, than with two dice.


Not if you're on guard, which you should be if you're expecting to get attacked.



Bubblematrix said:


> I thought if the termie did anything other than shoot then he went off of overwatch?


The only exception is clearing jams, you can clear jams with Command Points and continue shooting, they just get a 'free' movement when that happens.


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## Bubblematrix (Jun 4, 2009)

Winterous said:


> The only exception is clearing jams, you can clear jams with Command Points and continue shooting, they just get a 'free' movement when that happens.


Thanks, Im still very much novice at the game and that will help in those akward moments when 41st milenium technology becomes early 20th century


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

Winterous said:


> Not if you're on guard, which you should be if you're expecting to get attacked.


yeah, but since i move and attack most of the time i can't guard that much :wink:
and for blocking, a termie with stormbolter on overwatch is much more effective.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> yeah, but since i move and attack most of the time i can't guard that much :wink:
> and for blocking, a termie with stormbolter on overwatch is much more effective.


Not if you have no room.
If you're in a T-intersection and you're at the top of the stem, you only get 2 shots at them before they start hurting you.
If you're one block down from the top, you only get ONE shot before they hit you, then you lose your Overwatch!

Melee guys are effective and useful.


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## Commander_Culln (Jul 6, 2009)

since the mission xiii template has come out o the GW website has anyone come up with any missions?:victory:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Graf Spee said:


> well, neither sarge with sword or hammer is really that good in melee vs stealers.. it's mr. lightning claw on guard that will save your day. that 2D6 +1 is even better than the hammer and shield sarge with 1D6 +2. chances are better to compensate a single bad roll with an additional roll..


whu?

my lightning claw guy dies after 1 genestealer, my hammer guy kills an average of 8 in one mission every mission, and has not yet died in any mission I've played, especially on guard, that +2 on my roll -1 attack on the enemy and my re-roll is deadly, you got a better chance than mr claws doing anything with his 2 dice and the enemy still getting 3, even with the re-roll.

mr claws is pretty useless really, hes just cannon fodder to hold up the enemy for 1 turn, and only then if hes really lucky.


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## Skye (Oct 22, 2008)

I love the models (even more so that I play both armies:victory and the background story. I laughed about the jest that the one guy was a servitor :biggrin:..."of course he didn't get what was so funny."
Termes are harder to play if you don't know how: an 11 year old beat my 37 year old father....yeah...
After reading the battle report though... I find myself understanding it further. I suggest you start by reading White Dwarf.


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

Stella Cadente said:


> whu?
> 
> my lightning claw guy dies after 1 genestealer, my hammer guy kills an average of 8 in one mission every mission, and has not yet died in any mission I've played, especially on guard, that +2 on my roll -1 attack on the enemy and my re-roll is deadly, you got a better chance than mr claws doing anything with his 2 dice and the enemy still getting 3, even with the re-roll.
> 
> mr claws is pretty useless really, hes just cannon fodder to hold up the enemy for 1 turn, and only then if hes really lucky.


well, the maths is with me here.. as i said, without guard rolling only 1D6 against 2D6 (even with +2) is your death sentence in more than 45% of your melees. with 2D6+1 vs 3D6 it is under 40%.


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

Graf Spee said:


> well, the maths is with me here.. as i said, without guard rolling only 1D6 against 2D6 (even with +2) is your death sentence in more than 45% of your melees. with 2D6+1 vs 3D6 it is under 40%.


maths don't mean a thing to me I've made that clear thousands of times, all it proves is people have too much free time, with or without guard hammer and shield guy seems to win allot more than claw guy, claw guy is useless, simple as.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Received it yesterday. First game last night. Sooo impressed with the miniatures and the floor panels. Very solid package. The detail on the terminators is excellent.


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Ahh, just played the 4th mission with my bro there, I was the stealers. It started with me stocking up huge amounts of blips then losing a good few to good overwatch rolls. Finally I penetrated his perimeter but he compensated and managed to hold me at bay. By this time both his flamer and assault cannon were really close to the objectives, guarded by the sargents. Then I scored a couple more kills including Lorenzo (power wpn sarg) and placing a stealer right infront of his flamer and penning in the assault cannon, who made some lucky CC rolls. Then his assault cannon chewed through a stealer and killed the first objective, and the flamer burned himself and his attacker alive.
I realised all I could do was block the other objective room, and it would all come down to comand points. But he drew 4, reloaded the assault cannon, swiveled round, chewed though a door and another stealer and won the game (I made him roll dice for every shot he fired into the room to see if he blew up ) Models left on the board; thunder hammer termie, storm bolter termie, assault cannon, and 2 stealers, epic game! :biggrin:


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## LongseerEldrad (Aug 23, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> well, the maths is with me here.. as i said, without guard rolling only 1D6 against 2D6 (even with +2) is your death sentence in more than 45% of your melees. with 2D6+1 vs 3D6 it is under 40%.


Um, someone I think does not quite understand the rules....

Page 14 Space Hulk Rulebook:
"In a close assault both players roll a number of dice, and then compare their scores. Genestealers roll three dice in a close assault, and space marines roll just one. Compare the HIGHEST roll for each side, and whoever has rolled higher has won the close assault."

With sargent with TH and SS it will be 1d6+2 (re-rolled on guard) against 2d6 PICKING THE HIGHEST  even the broodlord can have difficulty even when he adds them.....:victory:


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

LongseerEldrad said:


> Um, someone I think does not quite understand the rules....
> 
> Page 14 Space Hulk Rulebook:
> "In a close assault both players roll a number of dice, and then compare their scores. Genestealers roll three dice in a close assault, and space marines roll just one. Compare the HIGHEST roll for each side, and whoever has rolled higher has won the close assault."
> ...


Aah nice pickup, I thought he was just stupid.
But no, he misread it.


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Over lunch I spent some time doing rolloffs for the 3 CC dudes (the librarian can't really be counted because of his psi points)

I know that it isn't that mathamatically sound, but I couldnt think of a formula that allowed you to pick the highest of 2d6 or 3d6, so this was the next best option  25 rolls each.

Thunder Hammer: 12 wins, 11 losses, 2 draws
On guard: 23 wins, 0 losses, 2 draws

Power sword: 11 wins, 9 losses, 5 draws
On guard: 15 wins, 5 losses, 5 draws

Lightning claws: 16 wins, 6 losses, 3 draws
On guard: 12 wins, 5 losses, 8 draws


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

KarlFranz40k said:


> Over lunch I spent some time doing rolloffs for the 3 CC dudes (the librarian can't really be counted because of his psi points)
> 
> I know that it isn't that mathamatically sound, but I couldnt think of a formula that allowed you to pick the highest of 2d6 or 3d6, so this was the next best option  25 rolls each.
> 
> ...


Wow, go hammer en guarde!


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## LongseerEldrad (Aug 23, 2009)

KarlFranz40k said:


> Over lunch I spent some time doing rolloffs for the 3 CC dudes (the librarian can't really be counted because of his psi points)
> 
> I know that it isn't that mathamatically sound, but I couldnt think of a formula that allowed you to pick the highest of 2d6 or 3d6, so this was the next best option  25 rolls each.
> 
> ...


It seems the best way to kill any of them is to get them from another angle as they lose their +1 modifier for TH and -1 stealer dice for SS/re-roll stealer highest dice for PW/ +1 dice and +1 modifier for LC. 

And if they still win they don't even kill the stealer. :scare:

Poor, poor space marines :taunt:


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## LongseerEldrad (Aug 23, 2009)

(sorry about the double post...)
I was wondering, can a terminator look around two corners in space hulk? it only talks about looking around one corner in the rulebook and it doesn't say anything about two corners...


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

You mean, left and right at once? Yes.


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

My son and I just finished the first couple of missions and we are loving it! 

As for the lightning claws VS. Thunder hammer/storm shield debate, I have to say that I just used the TH/SS guy to very impressive results. On the second mission, "exterminate" I used him to wipe out 11 steelers and survive the game. After pushing him down a corridor as quickly as possible I just placed him on guard and let them come to him. He was no match with a +2 to result, re-roll and reduce attack to only two. We tied only twice and I didn't try to re-roll because I would have needed a 5 to win as he rolled a six. 
Now when the mission with the lightning claws came around, he lost after he ran into only his third steeler. Not a good result for a guy who is supposed to deal it out in mêlée.

Which mission can you never seem to win no matter what you do, and as which side?

For me it's the first one as marines. I can never get the flamer to the room before being eaten!


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

LongseerEldrad said:


> Um, someone I think does not quite understand the rules....
> 
> Page 14 Space Hulk Rulebook:
> "In a close assault both players roll a number of dice, and then compare their scores. Genestealers roll three dice in a close assault, and space marines roll just one. Compare the HIGHEST roll for each side, and whoever has rolled higher has won the close assault."
> ...


dude, i play this game for about 15 years now. i know the melee rules. and you mistook me. of course there is no adding together (except for the broodlord). now do your homework and start calculating and fracturing chances. start with the fact that one dice versus 2D6 fractures you down to 0,5 basic factor. 2D6 vs 3D6 is at 0,667. you know the chances of rolling a specific number with on D6? you know what the average roll with a D6 is? and you know how those result are calculated in rows? good. i bet you can figure out the rest with some 5th grade mathematics as well.. :good:

again, i'm not talking of termies on guard here.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> dude, i play this game for about 15 years now. i know the melee rules. and you mistook me. of course there is no adding together (except for the broodlord). now do your homework and start calculating and fracturing chances. start with the fact that one dice versus 2D6 fractures you down to 0,5 basic factor. 2D6 vs 3D6 is at 0,667. you know the chances of rolling a specific number with on D6? you know what the average roll with a D6 is? and you know how those result are calculated in rows? good. i bet you can figure out the rest with some 5th grade mathematics as well.. :good:
> 
> again, i'm not talking of termies on guard here.


Nutting down to the maths of it is going to be a LOOOOOONG process man.
It's doable, but it'd take me a day.

And what the hell do you mean by "2D6 vs 3D6 is at 0,667."?
That doesn't make sense.


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## LongseerEldrad (Aug 23, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> dude, i play this game for about 15 years now. i know the melee rules. and you mistook me. of course there is no adding together (except for the broodlord). now do your homework and start calculating and fracturing chances. start with the fact that one dice versus 2D6 fractures you down to 0,5 basic factor. 2D6 vs 3D6 is at 0,667. you know the chances of rolling a specific number with on D6? you know what the average roll with a D6 is? and you know how those result are calculated in rows? good. i bet you can figure out the rest with some 5th grade mathematics as well.. :good:
> 
> again, i'm not talking of termies on guard here.


(sorry about mis-understanding you)

I see what you are talking about, but don't forget the TH gives another +1 (making +2) giving him a 0.3333 chance of instant winning (getting a 7 or 8). And i didn't say the lightening claws were much worse (see karl franz's post) they are all killing machines 


One other thing, when will a termie with LCs or TH and SS NOT be on guard?

Just like Unforgiven said:second mission I charged TH guy with about 15 stealers in one turn (he was camping on guard on the middle corridor with no way to go around) he killed all of them:threaten:


Finnaly about my corner post Elesser, I don't mean left and right at once, I mean a terminator is standing at the entrance to a room, looking in and a stealer is standing at the other entrance to the room to his left or right. Can he see through the corner he is beside across the corner of the room and through the corner the stealer is at?
Like the picture that should be here:


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## Unforgiven302 (Oct 20, 2008)

As for the marine being able to shoot the steeler through a room from one entrance to another 90 degrees from each other, that is a good question. 

I think it is no, he cannot. 

The rule for corners on page 12 of the rulebook says that a marine can only see around a corner that he is standing next to. Seeing as the steeler is in a corner that isn't next to him then he cannot see it and therefore cannot shoot at it.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Sorry, that makes more sense now. I'd go with no. It's dark. Ever played Dead Space? Yeah, like that. I might know the bastard is there, but I can't shoot it yet.


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> now do your homework and start calculating and fracturing chances. start with the fact that one dice versus 2D6 fractures you down to 0,5 basic factor. 2D6 vs 3D6 is at 0,667. you know the chances of rolling a specific number with on D6? you know what the average roll with a D6 is? and you know how those result are calculated in rows? good. i bet you can figure out the rest with some 5th grade mathematics as well.. :good:


dude, I really couldn't care less about your mathhammer, the experience of everybody else here is that hammerdude kicks ass, so either your methods of calculating are wrong, or probability is a myth


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

LongseerEldrad said:


> One other thing, when will a termie with LCs or TH and SS NOT be on guard?


when he attacks on the move  i tend to move a lot.



LongseerEldrad said:


> Just like Unforgiven said:second mission I charged TH guy with about 15 stealers in one turn (he was camping on guard on the middle corridor with no way to go around) he killed all of them:threaten:


you charged a th segeant on guard from the front? now that's a waste. :grin: either find a way around him or just stay on the tile in front of him blocking his move. if that's not possible just ignore him when he's on guard.



LongseerEldrad said:


> Finnaly about my corner post Elesser, I don't mean left and right at once, I mean a terminator is standing at the entrance to a room, looking in and a stealer is standing at the other entrance to the room to his left or right. Can he see through the corner he is beside across the corner of the room and through the corner the stealer is at?
> Like the picture that should be here:


he *can* see the stealer. simple 90° rule of line of sight. 3 tiles in first row, 5 tiles in second row, 7 tiles in third row and so on. absolutely no fucking with that. seriously. that's no thing about corners.


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

KarlFranz40k said:


> dude, I really couldn't care less about your mathhammer, the experience of everybody else here is that hammerdude kicks ass, so either your methods of calculating are wrong, or probability is a myth


and i couldn't care less about your opinion on that. so what? my style of play. not yours. math is second nature to me and the very basic tool at my job. the consideration of a chance like the one described takes me less than 5 secs and adds much to the flair of a disciplined and well organized force advancing on purpose (like marines, you see..). they're not some adventurer horde taking really silly risks at every chance. i have some very experienced opponents in my gaming group. if i wouldn't consider things like that, i wouldn't stand a chance against them and vice versa. 
i played versus some really young and inexperienced dudes during the last few days. most of them were rediciously easy to beat no matter which side they played. very seldom they realised why the lost. it's no fun to me if my opponent just acts stupid and without thinking twice. this no-tactic kind of slaughter is simply boring and frustrating to me.

and hey, some good roll will kill hammer-, claw-, sword-, whatever- dude on the first go. no matter how the chances are. 

oh and if you think probability is a myth, you've missed something during schooltime.


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## LongseerEldrad (Aug 23, 2009)

Graf Spee said:


> you charged a th segeant on guard from the front? now that's a waste. :grin: either find a way around him or just stay on the tile in front of him blocking his move. if that's not possible just ignore him when he's on guard.


It was mission 2 where it was kill all stealers; he had blocked one entry for half the game so all my stealers came in from the other side- I then had no more blips . He then stood in the central corridor of the map (the one with no other way around) going on guard. Now we could have sat for so many turns doing nothing as he had nothing else to do but sit tight so I had to do something .


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

LongseerEldrad said:


> It was mission 2 where it was kill all stealers; he had blocked one entry for half the game so all my stealers came in from the other side- I then had no more blips . He then stood in the central corridor of the map (the one with no other way around) going on guard. Now we could have sat for so many turns doing nothing as he had nothing else to do but sit tight so I had to do something .


ah.. i see your dilemma. all other termies were already dead or behind him, i assume? well at a choke point position it is really difficult. he didn't wanted to move and attack, therefor to lose his advantage of staying on guard and offering you the chance to attack from the side or rear. and you've seen no sense in actually sacrificing many stealers of your limited number to take him out but had no chance otherwise. well, tricky. of course he couldn't have possible won with you just sitting tight and waiting for his move. well it's cheesy, cuz the game has to end one way or the other. of course two can play that way in this mission. but i admit i would have done the same in your place. even though it's not very stylish of a marine player that is under pressure to clear the area to just sit tight. but yeah, bad luck for you to get in such a situation. 
a good way to avoid such a situation is to place the sergeant in a room near one of the stealers entrance zones (so not in one of the middle rooms), thus baiting him to run up to your entering points quite quickly to secure them. a bit manipulating but works quite often :wink: keep him occupied by NOT attacking him but denying him ground by just blocking his path or slow him down to only one tile per round, forcing him to attack if he wants to go further (no guard on offence = good chance for you to get him). in the meantime mop up the other part of the killteam on the other side quickly. then allow him to move the sarge into the entrance zone moving him further away from the choking point. and he will do so if he doesn't want to face stealer rushes from two entrance zones. he will most likely have another termie as company but you shouldn't worry about that too much. once the line termie is down you'll be able to get at the sarge from two sides. he's toast then.
i know the marine player will position one termie first at the start of the game and it's stupid for your baiting plan when he chooses the sarge first, but most of the time people pick the assault cannon termie first leaving you to place the sarge in a nice position to traet him in the way described above. hope you see what i mean. it's not all about brute force but manipulation as well.. 

cheers :mrgreen:


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## Dagmire (Oct 9, 2008)

6 games withs kiras brother and its 3 all. 
loving the game. playing termis second go round has its plus sides as you see the mistakes the first guy makes


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

My brother and I sat down and played both sides of Mission I last night.

Initial thoughts: 

Fuck the sand timer (It's been sitting on the table for 12 hours and has only poured out about 3/4 of the sand) We used an old watch with a stopwatch function. Most of the time we didn't need it. Average marine turn lasted about a minute and a half. Only the last turn where the marine player is agonizing about his last remaining mini did we push the edge of it

Marines really have it rough. We played the mission twice and both times the nids won before the marines got within sight of the control room. That first intersection was a deathtrap both times. But I think our folly was in keeping the flamer towards the middle, essentially blocking it from being useful until most of the others were killed and the nids were too close. 

But it was fun!

My brother and I set down some Rec Room League rules
1: Any night where there's nothing on after work is a valid game night, with at least one game a week.
2: We play each mission twice, switching sides and using slain nids as scorekeeping tools in the event that the same side wins both times.
3: We do not advance to the next mission until the Marines win at least once. (in the unlikely event that marines win both times we'll play til nids win, but it seems unlikely)


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## Graf Spee (Apr 29, 2009)

Galahad said:


> But it was fun!
> 
> My brother and I set down some Rec Room League rules
> 1: Any night where there's nothing on after work is a valid game night, with at least one game a week.
> 2: We play each mission twice, switching sides and using slain nids as scorekeeping tools in the event that the same side wins both times.


yeah, we do the same here. good and fair thing.




Galahad said:


> 3: We do not advance to the next mission until the Marines win at least once. (in the unlikely event that marines win both times we'll play til nids win, but it seems unlikely)


have fun with mission 1 again then. it's really tough going for the marines there. it's so much more fun when you move your flamer up to the front to cleanse sections and a single stealer is lucky enough to escape the inferno on a roll of 1. had this once. lost the game imediatly due to melee incompetence :mrgreen:
mission 2 is much more easy for the marines.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Well, fortunately the marines only have to win once ;-) If we both run the flamer guy out front next time, chances are one of us might actually pull it off.

Unrelated: 
I realize it's always been the rules, and it's needed for game balance, but I find it hilarious that the best warriors of the super-enhanced space marines, wearing the strongest armor concieved by man and using powerfists capable of crushing tank armor...are completely and utterly useless in assault compared to a grubby little genestealer.

I mean, sure, three rending attacks before you can swing certainly counts for something...but one die to represent a pair of S8 armor-ignoring PF attacks, and 2+ save armor and 5+ invul save...seems a bit too lane to me.

What would a guardsman end up getting to roll if a terminator is 1 die? LOL

Works fine in the game though.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Galahad said:


> Unrelated:
> I realize it's always been the rules, and it's needed for game balance, but I find it hilarious that the best warriors of the super-enhanced space marines, wearing the strongest armor concieved by man and using powerfists capable of crushing tank armor...are completely and utterly useless in assault compared to a grubby little genestealer.
> 
> I mean, sure, three rending attacks before you can swing certainly counts for something...but one die to represent a pair of S8 armor-ignoring PF attacks, and 2+ save armor and 5+ invul save...seems a bit too lane to me.
> ...


You have to keep in mind though the environment in which the fight takes place.
The Terminators are cramped, they don't have room to move very well, and that seriously hinders their performance.
The Genestealers and smaller and more agile, they can move freely and out-perform the Terminators in every way.

It's like comparing a Dog and a Cat of the same size in an enclosed space.
The Dog gets stuck, the Cat just performs some ridiculous feat of spinal flexibility and turns around.


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## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

If anyone's interested, I found this list of supplements online. They're all for 1st and 2nd Ed Hulk, but it shouldn't be hard to port them over, given the rules haven't changed much.


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