# Help with anti-eldar



## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Tonight I got badly beaten by my friends Eldar. I don't realy know where I went wrong so I'm posting here for help.

My list:

Cassius
2 ML/Meltagun Tac squads in Rhinos
5 LC Assault Termies
2 Vindicators
LRC
5 Sniper Scouts

His list:

Doom/Fortune Farseer + Council
3 Serpents
Banshees
Dragons
Gaurdians
2 5 man DAs
2 3 man DR squads each with Exarch w/Tempest+Crack shot
Some Harlies with a Shadowseer

I new there would be no hiding from the Tempest Launcher so I tried to stay in my tanks but the Eldar just tore the Rhino apart with little problems and quickly munched the juicy centre. My Termies just epic failed on armour save and didn't realy do much once they got out of the immobilised LRC.

What changes should I make to my list and what tactics would you recommend?


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

Couple of questions before a decent response can be given.

How many points are you guys playing?

and

What heavy weaponry is he taking?


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Heres your problem, You have a Ultras in your list . SMs against Eldar, hmmmm.... his list does not look super impressive, Ignore the Fortune Council, take out the serphants by hitting them with Twin Link Meltas and burn the weaker armore Gaurdians, Banshees, Dragons, and DAs with Flamers/Heavy Flamers. 

My Advice is invest in a Vulkan Hestan. Your Snipers are worthless, Harlies gets the Shadow Seer, no shots there, and 3 Serphants, no damage to be done, and finally Seer Council with Foryune, no kills there. So get rid of them.

Also ML are usless against AV 12 WS armore. 2 Melta Guns are advisable or at leat a Multi Melta. The Vindi also be usless, the WS will pop those puppies with side shots from a distance. This guys army is Close Range. Again Vulcan Hestan is the best Character for ya. TL on all Melta weapons (= dead Serphants) and TL on Flamers (mostly a HF) will kill off the Majority Eldar with no saves. One more thing, Out Flank something. If you had DPs you could easily get to those Units hanging back i.e. DRs. Vangaurd could be helpful here.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

He takes all Shurican cannons on the Serpents and has a Star Cannon in the Guardians and its 1500pts 

Secondly, Multi meltas don't get the extra dice for armour pen against a Serpent so the only advantage is the AP1 vs extra range. Although twin-linked with Vulkan might not be a bad idea but lets hear some more suggestions.

BTW: This isn't an Ultra-smurf list, maybe Cassius hates me for that...


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Calamari said:


> 2 Vindicators
> LRC
> 5 Sniper Scouts


These four units are probably the problem. None of them are particularly good at Eldar killing. Eldar tend to be a slippery bunch so sledgehammer units like Crusaders and Vindicators tend to struggle a lot to land a telling blow and Scout snipers will probably lack any worthwhile targets since most Eldar armies tend to be heavily mechanized.

Predators instead of Vindicators will help a lot here, especially if they're given lascannon sponsons.

The Land Raider is a bit difficult... Eldar have access to a lot of weapons that have an easy time of dealing with Land Raiders. Bright lances can be mounted on almost all of their vehicles and Fire Dragons are pretty much purpose-built to deal with heavyily armored tanks. It's hard to suggest an alternative since the Terminators rely so heavily on it for transportation.

As for the Scouts, giving them a heavy bolter should make them more of a threat.

Hope this helps,

Katie D


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> These four units are probably the problem. None of them are particularly good at Eldar killing. Eldar tend to be a slippery bunch so sledgehammer units like Crusaders and Vindicators tend to struggle a lot to land a telling blow and Scout snipers will probably lack any worthwhile targets since most Eldar armies tend to be heavily mechanized.
> 
> Predators instead of Vindicators will help a lot here, especially if they're given lascannon sponsons.
> 
> ...


So I guess what you're suggesting is a complete re-write? The LRC, Terminators and Vindicators are the main meat of the list. If I drop them I do free up about 800pts. After the Laspreds, what should I spend the points on?


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

did steve use his vibrocannons in your game too jake?


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

jams said:


> did steve use his vibrocannons in your game too jake?


Yes he did but they couldn't hit if their life depended on it lol.


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

ah. i was thinking that one way we could counter his reapers is by DS-ing in behing his lines with tac termies and barbequing his reapers while an assault squad deals with the support platforms.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I play a lot of Eldar and especially with Dark Reapers. I would say drop the Vindi's and take some Land Speeders, Storms or Typhoons. They have the speed and fire power to easily take down all the Reapers on the first couple of turns. 

Aramoro


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Hmmm, the cogs are turning. I have a few rough ideas.

First, drop Vindis, take a Laspred and swap Cassius for Khan so a can go crashing around his back line (furious charge Terminators are cool).

Secondly, work in a full assault squad with flamers (could work well with outflank) and a land speeder with a HF and maybe Typhoon launchers.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Calamari said:


> So I guess what you're suggesting is a complete re-write? The LRC, Terminators and Vindicators are the main meat of the list. If I drop them I do free up about 800pts. After the Laspreds, what should I spend the points on?


Unfortunately. I don't mean to be harsh or a power gaming lunatic that thinks your entire army is bad or anything. It's just that in my experience with Eldar (which is a lot, much to my dismay) some units work whereas others don't. Eldar are a really frustrating bunch to play against.

I'd personally try something along these lines.

Khan or Shrike
2 Tactical Squads with missiles and meltas in Rhinos
Terminators with cyclone missile launcher
Land Speeder Typhoon with heavy bolter
10 Assault Marines with fist, flamer and plasma pistol
2 Predators with autocannons and lascannons

It's not exactly 1,500 but it's pretty close. I struggle with Eldar myself, so I can't offer much "exact" advice.

Hope this helps!

Katie D


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

To everyone saying "Meltas are good" then I hate to disappoint you, but you're wrong.

12" range. You're never going to get that close unless you Deep Strike against a good Eldar player.

2D6 Penetration. Doesn't happen against Wave Serpents. Waste of half the value of the weapon.

The key to taking out Grav Tanks is sustained Autocannon/Lascannon/Missile Launcher fire. Anything higher than Str 8 is a waste, as is anything that rolls 2 dice to penetrate.

To edit your list, I would turn the LRC into a Vanilla one, and remove the Vindies for 2x Dakka preds or Auto/Lascannon Preds if you've got them.

Dark Reapers are terrible, as all of your good units are mounted. This means that they'll sit around doing nothing until he pops a Rhino, and even then, you've got a good chance of being in cover. Make good use of cover, try to keep your fire lanes open, focus your fire on 1 tank at a time and don't be afraid to pop smoke.


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## exsulis (Jul 17, 2008)

As Katie posted Eldar don't stand up well(infantry) against a large volum of shots. And the current Cyclone missle launcher is a two for one: more shots, and higher str.

Missile Launcher Devs work pretty well for their cost  

Now for Eldar does your opponet play the I tank shock you off the objective game on Turn 5, or 6? Cause there isn't much you can do against Eldar tanks. The foul things can take stupid amounts of fire, and fly away


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I forgot that the Serphants have Shields to negate the 2D6. 

As I went back to my Eldar days (first army and just sold them) I realise Eldar are really really good against Marines. So with some thought I advive Devastators with MLs, Cheap and good Anti Tank. The key really is to ignore his tanks as they have Shields to negate Meltas 2D6, I think Str 8 and higher counts as Str 8, and if they Flat Out they have a Cover Save anyway. ML Devastators. 

The Majority Troops AV is 4 so I suggest Scouts with Flamers or a Heavy Bolter and again Frags from the ML Devistators. 

Ignor his Seer Council, almost impossible to kill unles your throwing out high # attacks. So again I suggest Assault Troops or even a Vanguard. 

Do not use Terminators. They will be targeted by those Damn Banshees. Put the points to the Assault Squad or Vangaurd. With Heroic Intervention You can arrive and whip the crap out of anybody who is severly threatening you. Or make a Sterngaurd to out shoot any threats. 

The Land Speeders is a real good Idea too. There quick on the move and can deal with any Eldar Target.

As for Special Characters I use Khan on a bike. Get a Bike Squad running.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> Unfortunately. I don't mean to be harsh or a power gaming lunatic that thinks your entire army is bad or anything. It's just that in my experience with Eldar (which is a lot, much to my dismay) some units work whereas others don't. Eldar are a really frustrating bunch to play against.
> 
> I'd personally try something along these lines.
> 
> ...


No offence taken, you spoke the truth lol, it's what I need.

I was thinking of something along the lines of what you suggested but can I ask why you put the lone plasma pistol in the assault squad? Surely its a bit of an all or nothing thing?



Sethis said:


> To everyone saying "Meltas are good" then I hate to disappoint you, but you're wrong.
> 
> 12" range. You're never going to get that close unless you Deep Strike against a good Eldar player.
> 
> 2D6 Penetration. Doesn't happen against Wave Serpents. Waste of half the value of the weapon.


Half the weapon is 2.5 points, hardly worth moaning about when you still get a Strength 8 AP1 shot. I know its not perfect but what else would you suggest? In the game that sparked this, the Multimelta on my LRC was probably the star of the show, blasting Serpents out of the sky like nobodies buisness.



> Dark Reapers are terrible, as all of your good units are mounted. This means that they'll sit around doing nothing until he pops a Rhino, and even then, you've got a good chance of being in cover. Make good use of cover, try to keep your fire lanes open, focus your fire on 1 tank at a time and don't be afraid to pop smoke.


Reapers aren't terrible, at least against my list. My plan was to stay mounted but he popped my Rhinos and then took the marines apart.

Back to the re-write though. I think that Shrike would be good because I can infiltrate the Assault squad and fleet will help them keep up with the Eldar.

Keep the advice coming guys it all helps!


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

Calamari said:


> I was thinking of something along the lines of what you suggested but can I ask why you put the lone plasma pistol in the assault squad? Surely its a bit of an all or nothing thing?


It is, but the high Strength shot can come in handy. That being said, if you're planning on running Shrike then it's probably best to leave the plasma pistol at home since you'll likely be spending a lot of time taking advantage of _Fleet_.



Warlock in Training said:


> Do not use Terminators. They will be targeted by those Damn Banshees.


I'd disagree here. The point of tactical Terminators with a cyclone launcher isn't to get up in the Eldar player's face - their job is to sit back at 24+" and dakka at whatever needs dakkaing at. Wave Serpents are a great target since the cyclone can throw out two krak missiles on the move. Since the Terminators will likely be so far away, the Banshees will have a really long walk (which will get them shredded and killed) or at least one turn of Flat Out movement from a transport to close the distance. All kinds of countermeasures can be taken while the Banshees try to reach the Terminators.


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## Inquisitor Malaclypse (Dec 6, 2008)

good advice Katie.

i don't know what units you own in particular, but to boil it down:

1. Kill Eldar tanks. doing so will slow down Eldar players as just about all Eldar units can take these: Fire Dragons, Seer Council, Banshees, and DA are common in Serpents.

your other priority should be Fire Prisms.

the best way to do this IMO, is to ML spam, or dakka spam. a weakness of Eldar armor is its predicable nature: they have nothing better than AV12. true, a LC glances on a 3 but due to Eldar tank special rules (whether using Energy Fields of Holo Fields) an easy glance is not as good as having a lot more glances.

ML are cheaper, in SM armies, and can also put the hurt on foot sloggers.

2. go with opposites. don’t engage Banshees in cc unless you’re using a purposely sacrificial unit, shoot at them. don’t sit back and get into a fire fight with Reapers and Fire Dragons, engage them in cc. the greatest/worst thing about Aspect units is that they are so specialized in one area, they suck in the other hard.

over all however, the best way to kill most Eldar any thing is to cook it to death: again, flamers.

3. try a dirty trick. if psykers play a major role in his army, look at the Daemon or Witch Hunters for an allied Inquisitor (the Elites choice) with a psychic hood (it has unlimited range) and the henchmen that increase his Leadership to a 10. makes those psychic test scarier for your opponent. 

based on what your opponent fielded, this is what I would use to beat his list. the only thing I’m not sure about are Harlequins, as they’re not used as much any more.


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## jams (Sep 19, 2009)

jake i had a brain wave, sternguard can take cover ignoring ammo. that could be the key to smoking out those reapers


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

jams said:


> jake i had a brain wave, sternguard can take cover ignoring ammo. that could be the key to smoking out those reapers


Naw, if I was the player controlling the Dark Reapers I'd thank you for firing Dragonfire rounds at them.

Dark Reapers have a 3+ armor save, so unless they manage to get into 2+ cover somehow you'd be better off firing hellfire bolts at 'em. Wounding on a 2+ will force them to take a ton of saves, so they won't last long at all.

Speaking of brain waves - I bet a Dreadnought with an assault cannon and heavy flamer in a Drop Pod would be rather irritating for this Eldar player. He's got more footslogging units than most (Harlies, Guardians, Dark Reapers) and seems to lack much in the way of high Strength firepower other than in the hands of his Fire Dragons. A turn 1 Drop Pod Assault could easily have a Dreadnought landing right next to any of these footslogging units and lighting them up (literally when using a heavy flamer). Harlequins, Dire Avengers and Guardians hate heavy flamers with a passion and even Dark Reapers won't appreciate it.

Katie D


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

A dreadnought could tie up his banshees or harlies if needed, definatley something to consider, and I have 2 of them...

Ok here we go for a new rough list, have yet to work out points.

Librarian (for the psychic hood, he can hide in the tac termies)
Tac Termies with a cyclone launcher.
2x Tac squad in rhino ML+MG
2x AssCan Dreadnoughts
HF Typhoon (For the krak missiles and smoking things out of cover)
10x Assault squad with 2 flamers and power fist
Autocannon Predator with Las-sponsons.

I'm tempted to go on the offensive with this list but I think the key is to castle for a bit while the assault squad and Typhoon cause trouble in the mid field. The dreadnoughts are to tarpit his cc units (not the council though, damn witchblades! Hopefully the Assault Squad will take care of them if I don't get hit with destructor.)

Any more comments?


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## Black Crusader (Mar 17, 2008)

LR Redeemer? Drop pod dreadnoughts with heavy flamers? Land speeders with multi melta and heavy flamers? Match speed for speed. And get all up in their face with the drop pods.


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## Calamari (Feb 13, 2009)

Marines cant out speed Eldar, drop pods may seem like a good idea but the dreadnoughts will just get ganked. My best bet is to castle up and have everything supporting eachother.


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## Truthteller (Sep 2, 2009)

FWIW I use CSM and my main sparring partner uses Eldar. At first I got shot to bits but then I realised that Eldar have a weakness - range. 

Most Eldar weapons are max 36" range. MLs, Lascannons, are 48" range. Use this to make sure you start the shooting war. It's why the Typhoon LS is really good value it can keep hitting whilst outside of the Eldar's counter-fire. The Eldar are then forced to move towards it (away from the main objective if you are crafty) or ignore it. 


Getting Eldar to move towards you is very useful. It means you can get to him quicker too! So whilst you are hitting from 48" you are also moving the Rhinos forward. Now if he moves to close the range to take down your long range stuff, you can get to him with your SMs in the Rhinos. If he concentrates on shooting the Rhinos your long range stuff is free to pound him. 

TT


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## Siphon (Jan 17, 2009)

As Eldar are my primary army, things I don't like when facing SM are...

Librarians - I would say Farseers are the most common HQ choice for Eldar, I know I generally always take one, and Hoods can seriously mess with my day.

Flamers - Auto hits and you wound so easily on my T3. Sigh.

Heavy Flamers - Same as above and now you are denying most of my armies armor saves. Thanks...

Mass STR 8 shots - Your big fat STR9 and 10 shots don't mean a lot to me and I laugh at your meltas since my transports cut them to STR 8 only. You won't get shots at my rear unless I mess up, so your best bet is to dump a lot of STR 8 hits on my transports.

Plasma Weapons - Yes, the much maligned plasma guns are actually still useful vs. Eldar HQs. One plasma hit and wound will insta kill almost all my HQs except for special characters and the Avatar. They will wound the Avatar pretty easily though and force him down to his lower Invul save. Considering he will also ignore your meltas, plasma guns are your next best way to drop him quick.

Anything Fast and Tough - Being fast is my forte and when my opponent can do it and be tougher then me, it makes my cold alien heart cry.


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