# Fantasy etiquette questions



## Firefighter X (Apr 21, 2010)

Whilst I was working on my 2500 pt. High Elf army some time ago and asking for C&C Tim/Steve brought up a point that taking Teclis at any points level game pretty much makes you an arse and is generally frowned upon. I understand he's a powerhouse caster but damn he's 475 points. This got me to thinking, are there other breaches in decorum that I should know about or come to learn, as a new player to Fantasy? I want to play and have fun but not at the risk of being "that guy".

Cheers,

FFX


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

I got forkbanger to use Teclis the other day there against another guy in our campaign, I think he's still in the shower trying to get the dirty off. He's 475 points but he can win games single handily, casting an unstoppable Dwellers from Below every single turn is harsh. But on top of that he chooses his Lore before the battle so he can pick the best lore for any army. 

Some quick rules. 

1) Don't counter pick your lists

2) If something is totally bent in a game don't just keep on using it. Like a Horde of Grave Knights etc.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Pretty much with High Elves, its only Teclis thats frowned on... though maybe a little less so now with the Power Scroll nerf... Its just not that sporting to take him what with magic being how it is and his too good to not be broken magic casting skills. As probably mentioned to you, he's banned from most tournaments.

Otherwise, can't really think of much thats frowned on, appart from the general cheating and being a bad sport stuff that no-one likes from anyone.


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

Firefighter...

I have followed the following for over 20 years wargaming and it serves me well...

1). Communicate with your opponent before the game and get an understanding of what you wish to play... some people like me in a friendly will say yeah use whoever... 

2). As you play do small things to make it easier for you both....

Say things like 10 crossbows shooting, hitting on 4's...... thats 6 hits. As you roll. Don't mumble and say fdafdsfdadfasfdasfas etc as you say what your doing.

Measure correctly and politely give your opponent the benefit of the doubt over a mm or two...

Do not touch another persons figures without permission.

Never interupt a game... just nod politely to adknowledge the players your watching but most can do without a backseat driver.

Always label things so you know what they are... hey they are running... these guys are on overwatch... these guys are...... AND get your opponent to do the same.

If somebody takes advantage of rules or constantly argues with you etc after you have proven your correct via BRB or Codex... then let it go and then never play em again... works for me!


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

GrizBe said:


> Pretty much with High Elves, its only Teclis thats frowned on... though maybe a little less so now with the Power Scroll nerf.


Surely it's more now as he's the only one with the unstoppable bullshit, at least with Power Scroll anyone could buy a mini-teclis.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Personally I generally just frown upon using Special Characters, I don't mind if I'm informed before the game "I bought Teclis with me, mind if I use him?" ect ect so I dont feel guilty repling with "Sure I'll just unpack my Hochland Long Rifle Engineers".

As long as its played in good spirit not many people are that bothered unless you're in a tournement/league and then most SC are banned anyways.

Also the fact that Teclis can pretty much earn his 475points back in a turn or two of magic (against certain armies and set ups) its not really that much of a points sink


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Ratvan said:


> Personally I generally just frown upon using Special Characters, I don't mind if I'm informed before the game "I bought Teclis with me, mind if I use him?" ect ect so I dont feel guilty repling with "Sure I'll just unpack my Hochland Long Rifle Engineers".


Then I guess they bust out their Sacred Incense and turn the game into more of a lottery, can you face shoot him before you fall into a pit.

Even if they have Teclis, don't counter pick as it's a slippery slope. Playing Bret against Lore of Metal is not fun.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> Then I guess they bust out their Sacred Incense and turn the game into more of a lottery, can you face shoot him before you fall into a pit.


 
Basically yes, sucks the fun out so only really has been used once, maybe twice before he just learned that I dont like SC's. They're great for players getting into the game but I just prefer to invent my own characters and build their background.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Ratvan said:


> Basically yes, sucks the fun out so only really has been used once, maybe twice before he just learned that I dont like SC's. They're great for players getting into the game but I just prefer to invent my own characters and build their background.


You do know that counter picking his SC's does make you 'that guy' though, right?

I like Special characters they're fun, I use the Green Knight from time to time, though he didn't do that well against Balthazar Gelt mind you.


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

for friendly games, anything you feel is over the top or just not right is a good guideline.

Tournament lists are nasty. They're supposed to be. That being said, there's comp scores and 'how fluffy was this list' scores at many tournaments. 

I think that 'sure fire win' combos and woefully under-priced items/ models in friendly games will earn some dour looks.

Double hydra in a friendly game, for instance, would not be that friendly

If you say "hey, I really want to try this build" and your opponent is game, then go for it.

Special characters I avoid. They're very fun to read about, but not all are written to the same levels. Tecilis can make a game over in turn 2, that's not what the games about. If curb-stomping your friend is what you want to do, well, that's your friend there on the other side of the table.

Perhaps special character heroes? I don't know, not a huge fan of many. 

Maybe that it's my army book has pretty bad S.C's.....barring Khazrak and Slugtounge.

Really, I always try to ask at the end of a match "hey, was there anything over the top? Anything you felt was unfair?"


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

Aramoro said:


> Surely it's more now as he's the only one with the unstoppable bullshit, at least with Power Scroll anyone could buy a mini-teclis.


Yes but at least now he's even less exploitable.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

It's a shame. I like SC. Some are really cool.

I'd love to use Lord Kroak.... funky SC he is 

I'd love to use Kroq-Gar (or run him as a Oldblood on a Carnosaur) but he is so easy to take down.

I think SC are fun, but super SCers... like Suneater in Chaos (He is sick.. so sick.... check him out, he makes me cry!) and Archaon. Some characters are so powerful, but they have points to represent their power.


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## Firefighter X (Apr 21, 2010)

Right, so avoid Teclis. Check. Avoid SC's as a whole. Check. Unless I play 1 of these 2 douches at my FLGS. Danny & Fernando. Real play to win and be a sore winner types they are. Friendly is where I'm at in terms of playing. I've been in the hobby 17 years and just now decided to give Fantasy a go. Thanks for the tips.

A+ feeback lads,

FFX


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## sybarite (Aug 10, 2009)

l think most special character are fine.

l have every special character in the WoC book and have used all of them.

some are very good for there cost like thorgg and are need if you want a fluff army.

on the other hand (sorry to disagree with you Troublehalf) Suneater is one of the worse special character in game due to, no ward save I 1 and if you take him no hope of winning magic.


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## Troublehalf (Aug 6, 2010)

Well the reason why he is so sick is because he is pretty resistant anyways.

8 Movement, 8 Weapon Skill, 8 Strength, 6 Toughness, 8 Wounds and 7 Attacks! Sure he hits at I1, but when he does, not only does he hit out 7 attacks, but each unsaved wound turns to D3! He also has heavy armor, so 4+ AS... but he also has Scaly Skin 4+, so that's an armor save of 2+!, as well as immune to Lore of Heavens magic (My poor Skinks ) I still think that is pretty good against lots of things. I doubt many armies can knock off 8 wounds through 2+ armor save before he's crashed into a unit. Not to mention causing Terror in doing so.

Saurus Warriors have I1! Feel sorry for them.... I wouldn't mind if they were given Light Armor to take their AS to 4+ (3+ with shield) but alas, they won't. They are just crushed by overwheling Pit of Shades and stuff


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> You do know that counter picking his SC's does make you 'that guy' though, right?
> 
> I like Special characters they're fun, I use the Green Knight from time to time, though he didn't do that well against Balthazar Gelt mind you.


I dont think many heavily armoured knights do well against Gelt in any case.

Also I ONLY use HLR's against special charcters, I dont like going to tourneys and spamming so only "that" guy against other "that" guys. Don't get me wrong I have all of the current Special Characters for the Empire and they do get used but only as standard charcters


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Ratvan said:


> I dont think many heavily armoured knights do well against Gelt in any case.
> 
> Also I ONLY use HLR's against special charcters, I dont like going to tourneys and spamming so only "that" guy against other "that" guys. Don't get me wrong I have all of the current Special Characters for the Empire and they do get used but only as standard charcters


So you would criticise someone playing Throgg then for a Troll Army?

That fact is if you see someone roll out Teclis and THEN you go get your HLR, then your are worse than the Teclis player by far.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Aramoro said:


> That fact is if you see someone roll out Teclis and THEN you go get your HLR, then your are worse than the Teclis player by far.


Aramoro touches on a good issue here: if you know you opponent always plays the same army then taking units/upgrades that are good against that army is not intrinsically wrong; however, if you see your opponent's list then write/alter yours then you are being somewhat impolite.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> So you would criticise someone playing Throgg then for a Troll Army?
> 
> That fact is if you see someone roll out Teclis and THEN you go get your HLR, then your are worse than the Teclis player by far.


Throgg for a troll army is an exception for me as it gives the WOC player something different and also has been one of my favourite match ups, after the battle I pester the crap out of him till i can get a rematch whether it is win/lose/draw.

Yes I am worse by using HLR's against Special Character (especially Teclis) but that way I can still play against that player without using Special characters after a couple of spam off lotteries. I dont mind people use them, I just dont like them being used against/by me.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> Aramoro touches on a good issue here: if you know you opponent always plays the same army then taking units/upgrades that are good against that army is not intrinsically wrong; however, if you see your opponent's list then write/alter yours then you are being somewhat impolite.


With this I do not over use HLR's in friendly or at all in competitively play, the exception being in a friendly game if i am asked can i use this special character then i come back with sure, if i can roll out my HLR toting Engineers.... i dont see it as tailoring to a list as my standard list (1500 points that never changes) is up on our LGC wall


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Why would they ask if they can use their SC? Not that you will ever see Teclis or pretty much any SC at 1500 points mind you.

What you're doing is exactly the same as someone saying, oh I'm playing Brets then you going oh my Lvl 4 Mage now knows Lore of Metal for this game.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> Why would they ask if they can use their SC? Not that you will ever see Teclis or pretty much any SC at 1500 points mind you.
> 
> What you're doing is exactly the same as someone saying, oh I'm playing Brets then you going oh my Lvl 4 Mage now knows Lore of Metal for this game.


I feel like I am not explaining myself especially well at the moment so I will try and explain a little better.

At the LGC my 1500 points list is up on show for everyone to see, I ALWAYS take the units and characters on this list as we are playing a mighty empires campaign and all the starting lists are on show. If playing 2k i take an addional 500points of what ever I feel like playing on that given day.

My entire Empire collection is transported in a big tool box so have all my models including Karl Franz, Luther Huss ect ect as I feel that these have been painted well and I do like to show them off although it is a very very rare occurance that I use them as the special characters.

I really don't see the comparison between what I have done a few times to tailoring as HLRs vs SC's ONLY occur in those friendly matches.

I hope that I made a bit more sense with that....oh and FIREFIGHTER X sorry for hijacking the thread


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Ratvan said:


> I really don't see the comparison between what I have done a few times to tailoring as HLRs vs SC's ONLY occur in those friendly matches.


It can really only happen in a friendly match really, which kinda make it worse you know. Your opponent take his list out and then you go, hmm you've got Teclis eh, well I'll take the HLR/Warrior Priest setup. What do you do against the Green Knight where your HLR won't work, just slip in a cheeky magic weapon or Lore of Metal?

Do you give your opponent a chance to make sure he has Sacred Incense on board?

Yeah taking Teclis is a bit mean in a friendly game, but counter picking him once you know he's on the table is basically cheating.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

List tailoring is a complex issue: I'm against list tailoring, but I'll still tailor my list to the opponent (or give some advice for them to tailor to me) on occasion.

If you are about to have an even game and then you swap half your army to smash the enemy then you are a dickhead... this is the bad kind of list tailoring.

If I'm playing a trial friendly list of all the random crappy units that my army can take and the opponent gets out a tourny-list then I'll tailor my list so that it can compete (or just ignore my initial list and pull out a stronger pre-written list). Similarly if someone produces an army that really isn't going to compete against me then I'll suggest they might want to change, especially if they are friends that I've played and beaten a lot before.
Examples might be someone bringing a lore of metal mage to play my wood elves, or in 40k an eldar player heavy with bright lances fighting my necrons (last time that happened I suggested my friend switched to his white scars).


As for doing things such as switching to HLRs when you know you are playing against Teclis: its quite a prickish thing to do, but then anyone taking Teclis in a friendly game deserves it. Then again, if I ran an empire army I would probably always use 2-3 HLR in each army as standard... they'll always be useful.

On general SC usage: I normally say go for it. It adds a bit of variety and lets you use different models with different rules... but I wouldn't keep using any of the OP SCs. Pulling out a powerful SC for a game or two is fun, using him every game to smash everyone else is a bit rubbish.


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## Ratvan (Jun 20, 2011)

Aramoro said:


> It can really only happen in a friendly match really, which kinda make it worse you know. Your opponent take his list out and then you go, hmm you've got Teclis eh, well I'll take the HLR/Warrior Priest setup. What do you do against the Green Knight where your HLR won't work, just slip in a cheeky magic weapon or Lore of Metal?
> 
> Do you give your opponent a chance to make sure he has Sacred Incense on board?
> 
> Yeah taking Teclis is a bit mean in a friendly game, but counter picking him once you know he's on the table is basically cheating.


Yes I would advise Sacred Incense and I would also say what teh HLR does and point at the obvious targets.

To be completely honest I have never played or seen a Brettonian player in the last 5 or so years. I don't take Metal my wizard lord in my list is a beasts caster (Hans Vletch of the Amber order) and my magic items simple give ward saves and banner increases combat resolution


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## Ravion (Nov 3, 2010)

In my opinion for all this fantasy etiquette, don't worry about what the other player will think when you play Teclis or any other special character. The objective of the game is to have fun and try to beat your opponent.


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## Samules (Oct 13, 2010)

Ravion said:


> In my opinion for all this fantasy etiquette, don't worry about what the other player will think when you play Teclis or any other special character. The objective of the game is to have fun and try to beat your opponent.


No, the objective is for BOTH people to have fun and to beat your opponent. And do you really have fun curbstomping your opponent rather than playing a nice evenly matched game?


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