# Codex: Space Marine Rumors - Updated 18 Aug 2013



## Zion

Predictions Section
 Space Marine Rumored Release
Predicted Release: Pre-Order 31 August 2013, Release 7 Sep 2013

Codex Information
Author: Robin Cruddace
State: Awaiting Release

General Information


176 Pages
Cover features Sicarius
Less Ultramarine-centric (more chapters in the spotlight and then allowing for a proper expansion on the Ultramarines in a supplement)
7 different Limited Editions, priced at $115 USD (regular edition is rumored to be $58 USD)
Black Templars moved back into the codex. *Confirmed*
Black Templars get special mention in the White Dwarf by Robin Cruddace on why they were moved, and are the Battle Report army vs CSM/Daemons *Confirmed*
Black Templars are featured as one of the Limited Edition books *Confirmed*
Space Marine Strikeforce $220 USD - 39 models
New Rules


New codex focus is on synergies between units
Graviton Weapons are being brought into standard 40k *Confirmed*
Black Templars are in the codex. They retain unique access to the Emperor's Champion and Crusader Squads, their allies chart options and can take any option in the codex apart from Librarians. Their Chapter Tactic replaces Vows.
*Chapter Tactics:* (These still work even if the Space Marines are allied to another army, and, unless otherwise stated, apply to all models in the detachment)
*No Chapter Tactics provide Fearless or Stubborn to the army.*


Ultramarines: *(May no longer elect to fall back from combat) *Choose one of the following Doctrines: Tactical, Assault, or Devastator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes who get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase
Imperial Fists: Bolter Drill, which allows them to re-roll any 1s with all Bolter weapons listed on page 56 of the codex (it does not work with Sternguard special rounds), additionally all Devastators and Centurion Devastators gain the Tank Hunters special rules and add a +1 to all rolls to damage buildings.
White Scars: +1 to jink save, auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run on all units, except for Terminators and Centurions (both types).
Raven Guard: Stealth USR and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
Iron Hands: Army wide 6+ Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters . Techmarines and Master of the Forge also get a +1 on their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls
Salamanders: Re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Additionally any character gets to master craft one weapon for free.
Black Templars: Crusaders (gives Adamantium Will and Crusader USRs) and Accept All Challenges, no Matter the Cost (Characters gain Rending and Re-roll To-hit Rolls in challenges).
Second Founding or Later Chapters: Use the rule of your Parent chapter.
Unknown Founding or Homebrew: Pick one.
Chapter Tactics can only be mixed by allying in a separate chapter (this implies a new rule allowing the codex to ally to itself).
*Wargear:*


Graviton Pistol: 12", S*, AP2, Concussive
Graviton Gun: 18", S*, AP2, Salvo 2/3, Concussive
Graviton Cannon: 24", S*, AP2, Salvo 3/5, Concussive
Grav-Amp: Re-Roll Wounds and Armor Penetration rolls with Grav-weapons
*Graviton weapons always wound on the same number as the target's armor save (example: against a Marine it's a 3+, against a Gaunt it's a 6+), against vehicles on a 1-5 it does nothing, on a 6+ it automatically Immobilizes the vehicle and removes 1 hull point. Rules are not yet clear how this applies to models without armor saves.
Graviton Pistols are available to almost any model that can take a pistol
Graviton Guns are a Special Weapon
Graviton Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions
Flak Missiles available for +10 points
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher: 24" Rapid Fire
Chapter Relics include 2 swords, 1 Bolter, 1 set of armor, 1 Storm Shield, 1 banner.
*Warlord Traits:* 1 chart shared between all chapters.

HQ
Special Characters are no longer required to run a specific chapter. Some Special Characters provide bonuses to units from their specific chapter though.

Characters from chapters can only be chosen by those specific chapters. For example: an army with the Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists) can not take Forge Father Vulcan He'stan as part of the main detachment. Characters can still be shared through the use of allying one chapter to another, however. 
No Characters give Fearless or Stubborn to the army.

*Chapter Master:* 

Has 4 Wounds and 4 Attacks,
Still has Orbital Bombardment
*Captains: * 


Replace Black Templar Marshalls (and to an extent Castellans) for Black Templars
10 point decrease base
1 Bike squad of at least 5 models (of which one may be an attack bike) may be taken as a troops choice per Captain on a bike in your army.
No other real changes.
 *Chaplains:* Has 2 Wounds, 2 Attacks and the Zealot USR.
*Librarians:* 


No longer have codex powers, but retain same disciplines in rulebook.
Only unit not available to Black Templars
Mastery Level 1 cost 25 points less
Mastery Level 2 is a 25 point upgrade
Can only get Invunerable Saves through the Relics (one is stated to give a 6++) or Terminator Armor
*Master of the Forge:* 


Still the "shooty" HQ option.
Only access to an Invulnerable save is through Chapter Relics.
*Command Squad:* 

May still take bikes.
No option for Jump Packs
No option for Terminator Armor
*Honor Guard:* 


Honor Guard cost 10 points less per model
Retain Power Weapons, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Artificer Armor, Frag and Krak Grenades
No change to Champion, just points decrease
No listed option for Invulnerable save
Can not take Jump Packs
Elite
*Legion of the Damned*: 


All weapons ignore cover
5 points less a model
*Sternguard Veterans:*


Special Ammunition is unchanged.
Sternguard went down 3 points a model.
*Vanguard Veterans:* 


Heroic Intervention no longer allows the unit to charge from Deep Strike.
New Heroic Intervention: No penalty for disordered charges and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.
1 point cheaper per model
Jump Packs cost 3 points per model
Now Elites
*All Dreadnoughts:*


"Basically the same"
*Assault Terminators:*


Thunderhammer/Stormshield Terminators now cost +5 points each to upgrade
Points cost unchanged.
*Terminators:*


 Heavy Flamer went up in points, while Assault Cannon and Cyclone Missile Launcher got the same points decrease.
No new wargear options.
Points cost for Terminators unchanged.
Troop
*Tactical Squads:*


Tactical Marines cost 2 points less each.
Tactical Squads are similiar to the DA version, and the Marines now cost 2 points less each.
Tactical Squads may not take 2 Specialist Weapons
 Sergeants work the same as the DA codex
*Scouts:*


2 points less each
Can take Land Speeder Storm as a Dedicated Transport.
Telion remains the same points cost, but is updated to use the 6th Edition Sniper rules.
Telion is restricted to armies with the "Chapter Tactics: Ultramarine" special rule.
*Crusader Squads:*


Can take up to 2 Power Weapons/Fists in the Squad if a Sword Brother (Veteran Sergeant) is taken
Initiates cost the same as Tactical Marines and come with the same equipment (Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krack Grenades)
Initiates may trade their Bolters for CCW for free.
May take up to 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes in a squad
May take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport
No special rules beyond ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics (Black Templars)
*ONLY* available to armies with Chapter Tactics (Black Templars)
Dedicated Transport
*Land Speeder Storm: *


Now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts
Cerebus Launcher is now range 18", S 2, large blast, Blind
*Other:*


Black Templars may take Land Raider Crusaders as Dedicated Transports
Drop Pods hold 10 models
Fast Attack
*Assault Marines:*


1 point cheaper per model
No access to melta
Can not be troops choices
*Bikes:* 


1 Bike squad of at least 5 models (of which one may be an attack bike) may be taken as a troops choice per Captain on a bike in your army.
Max size is 8 models
*Scout Bikes:*


2 points cheaper per bike
Still lay mines as per current codex
* Attack Bikes:*


+5 points per model
*Stormtalon Gunship:*


Now an official part of the codex, Death from the Skies not required.
Same as the Death from the Skies version.
*Land Speeder Squadrons:*


May be taken in units of 1-3
No real chances
* Land Speeder Typhoon:*


15 points cheaper
Heavy Support
*Devastators:*


Reduced points cost, close to the DA version
Signum still gives BS5 to one model in the squad
* Thunderfire Cannon:*


No change, same points cost.
*Stormraven Gunship:*


Official part of the codex, Death from the Skies no longer required to use.
Same points cost.
*Vindicator:*


"Basically the same"
*Predator Tank:*


Dakka Pred (Heavy Bolters/Autocannons) +5 points
Las Pred (Lascannon sponsons/turret) -25 Points
* Whirlwind:*


20 point cost reduction, no other changes
 Special Characters
*Captain Cato Sicarius:* 


15 point reduction in cost.
+1 to Reserve Rolls
No longer Seizes the Initiative on a 5+
*Chaplain Cassius: *


5 point increase in cost.
Gained Zealot USR (?)
*Chief Librarian Tigurius: * 


65 point decrease
Mastery Level 3
Knows all disciplines
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers
He can re-roll reserves(even successful ones)
Helm of Hellfire is a psychic hood
He can re-roll failed psychic test
Statline is unchange
*Forge Father Vulcan He'stan:* 


No change in points
Gives Meltas in the Salamander army Twin-Link.
*Kor'ssaro Khan:* 


35 points cheaper
Moondrakkan 20 points cheaper
Bikes and Dedicated Transports in a White Scars detachment have the Scout USR
His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
 *Lysander:* 


Increased cost by +30 points
Still retains Eternal Warrior
No longer has Bolter Drill instead allows all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF) re-roll on morale and pinning test
Same statline
 *Marneus Calgar:* 


Rolls for 3 Warlord traits (re-rolls duplicates) and keeps all three
Terminator Armor now allows him to Sweeping Advance
25 points more expensive than his current incarnation
may take his Terminator Armor for 10 points
It still has a Teleport Homer.
 *Pedro Kanto:* 


10 point increase.
Makes Sternguard Scoring,
Uses Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists)
Retains 12" +1A Bubble
Has 4 Attacks, 4 Wounds
 *Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike: *Can only infiltrate with jump infantry

*Helbrecht:* 


Once per game gives Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics (Black Templars),
Can take an Honor Guard (he's a Chapter Master)
Does *not* get Orbital Bombardment.
W4, A4 like the generic Chapter Master
 *Grimaldus:* 


Has the Zealot and the "It Will Not Die" USRs.
Units within 6" of the servitors get a 6++ invulnerable save.
He has 3 Wounds and 3 Attacks.
*Emperor's Champion:*


Combat Tactics (Black Templar) exclusive
 Sword is AP2 (at Initiative), Master Crafted
Has 2 "stances", one gives +2 Strength (counts-as 2 handed), the other gives Rending
Always has a 2+/4++
Does not take up a FOC slot.
May be the army's Warlord
*Telion*


 Same Points cost
Has Chapter Tactics (Ultramarines) (effectively restricts which armies can take him)
 *Brother-Sergeant Chronus:* 


Remains the same with a points cost decrease.
New Units

*Assault Centurions:
*

Models come with Siege Drills, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers.
Siege Drills are S9, AP2, Armourbane, Specialist Weapon and strike at Initiative.
Flamers can be traded for Meltas
Assault Launcher can be traded Hurricane Bolters.
They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF.
They can purchase an Omniscope which gives the Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
 They do not have an Invunerable save.
 The Assault Centurion statline is as follows: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A1 / Ld8 / Sv2+
 The Assualt Centurion Sergent statline is: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A2 / Ld9 / Sv2+
 Centurions gain +1 Attack for having 2 Specialist Weapons in close combat.
*Devastator Centurions: *


Come equipped with twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters.
Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missiles
Heavy Bolters can be upgraded upgraded to Twin-Lascannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF.
They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
They can be purchased in squads up to 6.
The Devastator Centurion statline is as follows: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A1 / Ld8 / Sv2+
 The Devastator Centurion Sergent statline is: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A2 / Ld9 / Sv2+
 Grav-Cannon is rumored to be AP2 (I am unsure at this time if this carries over to all Grav Weapons or not).
Grav-Amps allow you to reroll to wound rolls.
3 models with no upgrade cost the same as the current price of Predator with no upgrades
*Stalker:*


 Each gun is: 48" Range, S7, AP4, Heavy 4
Can Split fire at reduces BS
AV 12/12/10
Does not have Interceptor
10 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
*Hunter:*


 60", S7, AP2, Armourbane, Heavy 1
AV 12/12/10
Does not have Interceptor
15 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Model Releases


New Captain Model *Confirmed* $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
 New Librarian Model *Confirmed* $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
 New Chaplain Model *Confirmed* $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
 Reclusiam Command Squad 5 Man $90 USD - 5 Model Command Squad, Razorback, and Chaplain
New Sternguard Kit *Confirmed *$50 USD - 5 Model Plastic Box
 New Vanguard Veterans Kit *Confirmed *$50 USD - 5 Model Plastic Box
 Assault/Devastator Centurions *Confirmed *$78 USD - 3 Model box
New Tactical Squad Box (with Graviton Pistol and Graviton Gun options in addition to everything else). *Confirmed *$40 USD - 10 model Plastic Box
 AA Tank: "the Hunter" *Confirmed *$65 USD - combined Kit with Stalker Tank
 AA Tank: "the Stalker" *Confirmed *$65 USD - Combined Kit with Hunter Tank
 Devastator Centurions *Confirmed *$78 USD - 3 Model box shared with Assault Centurions


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## Zion

So in a twist we may have been teased about the larger armor thing before. Some sketches from a GW event:


















Assault Centurions:









Assault Centurions with Helmets:









Stalker Tank:



Vanguard Vets:

















Captain









Not sure who this guy is. Perhaps the Sternguard Sergeant?









Helmetless Librarian 









Sternguard









Chaplain, Captain, Librarian:









Heavy Support Centurions:









Better picture of the Stalker:









And the Hunter:









Possible Limited Edition Black Templar Cover?









Tactical Marines:

















Reloading:









Sternguard with Combi-Melta:









More Sternguard:

























Backshot of the Centurion's Legs revealing a Marine's legs:









Dev blurb explaining where the arms go in Centurion armor:


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## Jacobite

*sigh* a super dread? Really? Surely there is something better they can come up with rather than a simple cut and paste big dread?

That said Rhino Command variants are pretty cool! I'm assuming that the Armoured Recovery Varaint is a techmarine DT.


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## nestor73

Any mention of jump pack command squads or flakk missiles?


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## imm0rtal reaper

Jacobite said:


> *sigh* a super dread? Really? Surely there is something better they can come up with rather than a simple cut and paste big dread?
> 
> That said Rhino Command variants are pretty cool! I'm assuming that the Armoured Recovery Varaint is a techmarine DT.


What things would you have rather seen? A mega-dread makes the most sense to me, even if it is a bit uninspired.


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## Zion

Jacobite said:


> *sigh* a super dread? Really? Surely there is something better they can come up with rather than a simple cut and paste big dread?
> 
> That said Rhino Command variants are pretty cool! I'm assuming that the Armoured Recovery Varaint is a techmarine DT.


Actually I rather doubt the "Super Dread" rumors as Jez Goodwin said in the recent "Into the Citadel" Q&As that he didn't think Marines need a big stompy robot thing. That said, he also said he'd handed the Marines over to the younger guys, so who knows.

That said, the rumors put it not as a Dreadknight but some kind of larger Contemptor, but I still doubt it quite a bit. Ever since the Riptide there have been claims that everyone is getting a big stompy robot, even when not everyone has (Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines didn't get big MC style robots afterall). Plus I could imagine that they're trying to keep the Marines from drifting into feeling to close to being the the same, so giving the Vanilla Marines a Dreadknight would only weaken the Grey Knights.

Besides, the Dreadknight might not even be Imperium tech (that's left murky in the codex) so I don't see it getting passed around to other armies.



nestor73 said:


> Any mention of jump pack command squads or flakk missiles?


Nope. What's there is everything I could find. If I find more I'll add it though.


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## bitsandkits

I think marines are more likely to see land raider and/or rhino varients than a big walker, i do also expect a recut dreadnought and predator and razorbacks and a plastic tech marine because i cant get the resin one for love nor money!


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## Bindi Baji

bitsandkits said:


> i do also expect a recut dreadnought and predator and razorbacks and a plastic tech marine because i cant get the resin one for love nor money!


bearing in mind assault on black reach was the only way to get a basic melta dread I would be astonished if we didn't see one,
I think I heard about a recut predator (but that may have been on here) and I doubt we'll see a plastic techmarine (mainly as it's the thing I want most):grin:


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## Jacobite

imm0rtal reaper said:


> What things would you have rather seen? A mega-dread makes the most sense to me, even if it is a bit uninspired.


Personally I'd rather see the so called "missing link" tank between the Predator and the Land Raider, if I recall correctly the Pred is actually a "scout" tank while the LR is a heavy, although that may have been ret-conned now.

I also question the delivery method of said Mega Dread.

Infantry have Pods or Thunderhawks
Termies have DS or Thunderhawks
Dreads have Pods or Ravens (depending on the chapter)
Vehicles have Thunderhawk Transporters

What would this Mega dread have to keep it mobile?


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## Magpie_Oz

Jacobite said:


> What would this Mega dread have to keep it mobile?


Ceramite feet. It can drop from orbit all by itself ?


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## imm0rtal reaper

Jacobite said:


> Personally I'd rather see the so called "missing link" tank between the Predator and the Land Raider, if I recall correctly the Pred is actually a "scout" tank while the LR is a heavy, although that may have been ret-conned now.
> 
> I also question the delivery method of said Mega Dread.
> 
> Infantry have Pods or Thunderhawks
> Termies have DS or Thunderhawks
> Dreads have Pods or Ravens (depending on the chapter)
> Vehicles have Thunderhawk Transporters
> 
> What would this Mega dread have to keep it mobile?


Deep striking giant robots would be pretty cool!


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## Jacobite

And therein lies a problem that GW has, in my opinion, been suffering from for a while now. They are too busy trying to come up with "cool" stuff first and foremost rather than "cool" stuff that fits within the grim dark. I know I'm in the minority when I say that though.


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## Ddraig Cymry

The rule re-writes to allow semi-custom leaders seems like a very solid idea. Can't wait to see more.

As for their inevitable super unit, I really don't care haha If it's something that looks ike it could fit with the force I'd want to make then great, otherwise I'd either proxy or play without it, kind of like the Helbrute, when I start CSM I'd buy a Forge World Dreadnought and proxy it as a Helbrute.


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## imm0rtal reaper

Jacobite said:


> And therein lies a problem that GW has, in my opinion, been suffering from for a while now. They are too busy trying to come up with "cool" stuff first and foremost rather than "cool" stuff that fits within the grim dark. I know I'm in the minority when I say that though.


Oh I agree with you, I've thought 40k has been getting more and more ridiculous for years. The lord of Skulls is a prime example. I refuse to see how anyone in any kind of "realistic" setting could think that think made sound tactical sense.


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## Magpie_Oz

imm0rtal reaper said:


> I refuse to see how anyone in any kind of "realistic" setting could think that think made sound tactical sense.


I think you'd be doing well to fit _anything_ in 40k into a feasible realistic scenario.


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## imm0rtal reaper

Magpie_Oz said:


> I think you'd be doing well to fit _anything_ in 40k into a feasible realistic scenario.


That is very true. I don't know, I just feel like more and more of GW's products are feeling "toyish" for lack of a better term these days.


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## Magpie_Oz

imm0rtal reaper said:


> That is very true. I don't know, I just feel like more and more of GW's products are feeling "toyish" for lack of a better term these days.


Yeh I agree.

The Khorne Lord of Skulls is a bit meh to me, but my son LOVES it. He's 12 and I've bought him one for his birthday. 

Maybe it is us growing away from the hobby rather than any particular shift in GW's ethos?


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## imm0rtal reaper

Magpie_Oz said:


> Yeh I agree.
> 
> The Khorne Lord of Skulls is a bit meh to me, but my son LOVES it. He's 12 and I've bought him one for his birthday.
> 
> Maybe it is us growing away from the hobby rather than any particular shift in GW's ethos?


It could well be, even the space marine stuff doesn't excite me as much as it used to! 

However, if they were to release a plastic thunder hawk (I CAN DREAM!) I'd be all over that shit!


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## Jace of Ultramar

imm0rtal reaper said:


> It could well be, even the space marine stuff doesn't excite me as much as it used to!
> 
> However, if they were to release a plastic thunder hawk (I CAN DREAM!) I'd be all over that shit!


You and a slew of others (myself included) would take out a loan just to buy one. Plastic Thunderhawk and Warhound Titan :drool:

I personally do not see the Marines with a big stompy robot, since that's what the previously mentioned titan are for.

As for the in between of the Rhino chassis and Landraider chassis, would that be the Land-Avenger that was mentioned last year? I know that was an off the wall rumor thread, but, seems to fit as an answer for the question at hand.


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## Achaylus72

A great excuse for me to build a Space Marine Army, i have just renamed my Chaos Army from Son's of Achaylus to Bonecrushers of Achaylus, now i can build the Son's of Achaylus Army prior to their Chaos conversion, i am thinking happy, happy, joy, joy thoughts.


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## Magpie_Oz

imm0rtal reaper said:


> It could well be, even the space marine stuff doesn't excite me as much as it used to!
> 
> However, if they were to release a plastic thunder hawk (I CAN DREAM!) I'd be all over that shit!


I'd be right there with you on that one.


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## imm0rtal reaper

My predictions release wise are:

at least 3 new finecast characters, be they named or generic. 
A plastic hq choice
A new plastic elite - probably those suit things
The plastic super, whatever it may be
A plastic "veteran" kit Perhaps one that you can make stern/vanguard from. But it will have loads of options on it and new bodies and every marine player up and down the land will buy one even if they don't plan on fielding the unit, just for conversions. 

The 6th ed releases seem to be 3 plastic kits, a plastic HQ (which for dark angels was a whole kit) and some finecast bits.


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## Jace of Ultramar

imm0rtal reaper said:


> My predictions release wise are:
> 
> at least 3 new finecast characters, be they named or generic.
> A plastic hq choice
> A new plastic elite - probably those suit things
> The plastic super, whatever it may be
> A plastic "veteran" kit Perhaps one that you can make stern/vanguard from. But it will have loads of options on it and new bodies and every marine player up and down the land will buy one even if they don't plan on fielding the unit, just for conversions.
> 
> The 6th ed releases seem to be 3 plastic kits, a plastic HQ (which for dark angels was a whole kit) and some finecast bits.


Seems about right, considering everything thus far.


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## Loli

So long as they give me customisable Tech Marines/MotF I'll be happy. 

Please no super walkers, the idea is stupid, I'm happy with my 3 variants, that's enough.


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## falcoso

While the variants on the rhino sound awseome, I doubt they may be true, as why not give DA these shiny new rhino variants when they were updated? Ok granted they may not have thought of them at that point but it will certainly leave DA players pissed that they can't get them without allying, same goes for the super-dread. I don't think they need it and I think it's nice that xenos have these huge constructions instead of for everyone that they can think of a suitable large model for.


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## Zion

falcoso said:


> While the variants on the rhino sound awseome, I doubt they may be true, as why not give DA these shiny new rhino variants when they were updated? Ok granted they may not have thought of them at that point but it will certainly leave DA players pissed that they can't get them without allying, same goes for the super-dread. I don't think they need it and I think it's nice that xenos have these huge constructions instead of for everyone that they can think of a suitable large model for.


The Rhino Variant thing actually got mentioned as early as last year by Hastings, who tended to have rumors based more on models than rules. 

And I don't think GW has to give every army everything. Not every Marine army needs fast Rhinos just because Blood Angels have them. 

I seriously doubt the "Super-Dread" personally as Jes Goodwin mentioned he didn't like the idea of the Marines getting a big robot or super tank and I'm willing to bet he's not the only one there who feels that way.


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## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> What would this Mega dread have to keep it mobile?


Roller skates. Massive roller skates.....


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## Bindi Baji

Tawa said:


> Roller skates. Massive roller skates.....


or a big surf board.......


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## Tawa

Bindi Baji said:


> or a big surf board.......


The vanilla answer to puppy cavalry! :so_happy:


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## Creon

No, the Guard get Surf Boards. They had them in 1st Edition. Gravboots. Sticks his feet in jetbikes.


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## Bindi Baji

Creon said:


> No, the Guard get Surf Boards. They had them in 1st Edition. Gravboots. Sticks his feet in jetbikes.


grav boots are clearly too expensive for IG, however the new plastic stormtrooper models for IG do come with a deep striking spring boots option


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## Jace of Ultramar

I hope sergeants get some new weapon upgrades, like a Stalker Pattern Bolter.


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## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I hope sergeants get some new weapon upgrades, like a Stalker Pattern Bolter.


I've been replaying Space Marine again. I'd kinda like to see the Vengence Launcher makes appearance.

And maybe Purity Seals giving Adamantium Will for a points cost for the Character models?


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## Helion Rain

They need to release LR Ares!!!
For those not familiar with this variant go to forge world archives.
Basiclly its a LR with a dozer blade and vindicator cannon!!!


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## Tawa

Helion Rain said:


> They need to release LR Ares!!!
> For those not familiar with this variant go to forge world archives.
> Basiclly its a LR with a dozer blade and vindicator cannon!!!


I have a pdf of that somewhere.....


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## Jace of Ultramar

Well, I guess within the next few months we will get to see if last year's speculation list from that LOTR site was anywhere close to the actual release. 

Honestly, the Land Avenger from that list had my hopes up for a new tank model.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Well, I guess within the next few months we will get to see if last year's speculation list from that LOTR site was anywhere close to the actual release.
> 
> Honestly, the Land Avenger from that list had my hopes up for a new tank model.


That list went right out the window after the Daemon codex hit due to claims of plastic Greater Daemons that never came and missing the things that were released (the Skullchariot, and the Plague Drones).


----------



## Entarion

I have been fan of Warhammer for 4 years and since then, Space Marines are my chosen. So yes, I am excited about new codex as a little a bit in fear of it.
I have played maybe 3 games, cause I care more about models and my custom chapter rather than game itself. So let me comment. 

*I start with I don't like much:*
*Mega-dread*. Hell no! Contemptor Dread is just about right size and anything bigger is out of scale for me. And because of Cont. there is no reason for this.
*Bigger termies.* No way! I allow GW to come up with new mark of the armor. That would be pretty sweet. But some new bigger unit is bullshit.

*And now some pros and things I wish:*
-Kits for Rhino. Amazing!
-step between Predy and Land Raider? Yes do it!
-now as there are usually 2unit-type boxes, veterans are most logical unit to get this. Sterns/Vanguards really miss this multipart/unit box.
-I would really like to see some HQ box from which I can build 2 models. One in terminator, one in power armor. With bits choices for librarian, chaplain, techmarine and classic captain.
-some new land speeder please? I really LOVE them, especially storm. Sweetest skimmer ever. (Vengeance from DA is nice, but that front turret kills whole model)

When you look at range of Space Marines you can see that there is nothing extra. (like dreadknight). All models have its role and fit to the army. I am really scared a bit, that something shitty will come as we have seen lately. I dont mind some funny flayers rather than some toyish! dreads and big terminator suits.

-not even sorry for long text. Entarion out!

PS. I am glad that Ares was mentioned here. This project is in my mind since I first saw it on lexicanum. As a personal vehicle for my chapter master. Kit would be nice but Land/Vindi conversion is not that hard. And with the rest of Vindi you can do some awesome custom vehicle.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> That list went right out the window after the Daemon codex hit due to claims of plastic Greater Daemons that never came and missing the things that were released (the Skullchariot, and the Plague Drones).


Well, I wasn't aware of that. I think for thrill of it I may go to the drawing board and try to work out a concept for a Land Avenger.


----------



## Chryckan

Anyone know who the author is?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chryckan said:


> Anyone know who the author is?


Probably Matt Ward again.

I'm going to post the list from last year that I mentioned previously for anyone who is curious as to what I was referring to.

Space Marines Speculation List
PL= Plastic
RE= Resin

Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Defence Wall PL 
Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Tower / Pillar of Heroes PL 
Space Marine Astartes Battle Fortress Monastery PL 
Space Marine Land Avenger PL 
Space Marine Praetor Warmachine PL
Space Marine Bike Squadron / Crusader Bike Squadron PL 
Space Marine Skyshatter Cannon RE 
Space Marine Terminator First Hand RE 
Space Marine Librarian with Jump Pack RE
Space Marine Neophytes PL
Space Marine Techmarine with Artificer Squad PL 
Space Marine Sword Brethren / Nightflame Veteran Squad PL 
Space Marine Librarian Epistolary RE 
Space Marine Land Avenger Vulkan / Land Avenger Invictus PL 
Space Marine Bionics Upgrade Pack RE 
Space Marine Defender Upgrade Pack RE 
Iron Father Maalthun RE 
Chapter Master Tu’Shan RE 
Severus Agemman, Regent of Ultramar RE 
Helveticus the Ancient, Bearer of Honour RE
Paladin Marshall Sieghelm RE 
Space Marine Scouts with Astartes Grenade Launchers PL
Space Marine Gale Claw Supremacy Fighter PL
Space Marine Space Marine Tactical Squad PL
Space Marine Land Raider Medusa PL


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Well, I wasn't aware of that. I think for thrill of it I may go to the drawing board and try to work out a concept for a Land Avenger.


I think they missed some other stuff in the Tau and Eldar releases too. Point is that the list fell apart once releases actually started to intersect with it's timeline.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> I think they missed some other stuff in the Tau and Eldar releases too. Point is that the list fell apart once releases actually started to intersect with it's timeline.


Well, that's no surprise. I remember thinking that list was fairly accurate due to some inclusion of serial numbers for each product. I guess someone had too much time on their hands.


----------



## Bindi Baji

To be fair it wasn't entirely awful, 
the spelling was A+, 
as was the fictional writing............


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Well, that's no surprise. I remember thinking that list was fairly accurate due to some inclusion of serial numbers for each product. I guess someone had too much time on their hands.


One of the keys to being a good liar is to give oddly specific details that are hard to check. Serial numbers and a specifically far out date for the start of release were almost dead give-a-ways it was false. Toss in a few educated guesses about the closest releases and you look prescient and like an insider.

But troll is still a troll.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Bindi Baji said:


> To be fair it wasn't entirely awful,
> the spelling was A+,
> as was the fictional writing............


Very true. Its a nice list, but, as Zion has now pointed its defunct.


----------



## Chryckan

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Probably Matt Ward again.


OH FUDGE! (Not sure if you're allowed to curse here yet.)

On the other hand suddenly rumors about mega-dread and awesomesauce armor bigger than TDAs not only makes sense but becomes practically a certainty.

Still gonna be nice to have tactical marines that can wipe out Deathwing terminators and Lysander deathstars.


----------



## Tawa

Entarion said:


> -Kits for Rhino. Amazing!
> -step between Predy and Land Raider? Yes do it!
> -now as there are usually 2unit-type boxes, veterans are most logical unit to get this. Sterns/Vanguards really miss this multipart/unit box.
> -I would really like to see some HQ box from which I can build 2 models. One in terminator, one in power armor. With bits choices for librarian, chaplain, techmarine and classic captain.
> -some new land speeder please? I really LOVE them, especially storm. Sweetest skimmer ever.


I'd buy into that wishlist :so_happy:


----------



## Zion

Chryckan said:


> OH FUDGE! (Not sure if you're allowed to curse here yet.)
> 
> On the other hand suddenly rumors about mega-dread and awesomesauce armor bigger than TDAs not only makes sense but becomes practically a certainty.
> 
> Still gonna be nice to have tactical marines that can wipe out Deathwing terminators and Lysander deathstars.


Before you go flying off the handle about Ward, he wrote the last C: SM book and it was fine. In fact most of what he writes isn't nearly that bad. Battle Focus on Eldar? Ward's idea, Kelly just put it in the book.

That said, Ward hasn't been writing codexes so far this edition (he has done at least one supplement though), and you could almost declare Cruddace missing person at this point.

So far Vetock and Kelly have been doing all of the codexes we've gotten so far, so either of them are a more likely guess right now than Ward.


----------



## Archon Dan

The fact that others have been doing so much of the work actually makes Ward more likely. He hasn't done much since the main rulebook. But Space Marines are kinda like his forte. So even if he isn't the credited author, you can bet he's helping or writing up a supplement.

I don't find his Space Marine or Blood Angel codexes bad. They are pretty nice. The Necron one is good too, aside from the fluff rape. But surely that was collaberative. Just because one guy gets authorship credit, doesn't mean the others don't help. As Zion said, Ward came up with Battle Focus. Anyway, the only codex I really have a problem with that Ward did was the Grey Knights.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth

Ward's fluff is abysmal. My poor Necrons are unrecogniseable, thanks to GW's attempt to get all the 12 year-olds to buy the robots with ray guns. However, his rules are fantastic. Vanilla marines are _still_ competitive, and the dex is what, years old now? If only Ward could write rules and have some kind of Fluff Board to approve all major changes. (Like the C'tan... jeez, you can't just put them in metal bawkses!)


----------



## Chryckan

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Ward's fluff is abysmal. My poor Necrons are unrecogniseable, thanks to GW's attempt to get all the 12 year-olds to buy the robots with ray guns. However, his rules are fantastic. Vanilla marines are _still_ competitive, and the dex is what, years old now? If only Ward could write rules and have some kind of Fluff Board to approve all major changes. (Like the C'tan... jeez, you can't just put them in metal bawkses!)


The reason his codexes holds up is because when they are released are so over powered that it takes years of the other armies getting adjusted to his codexes before they are balanced. 
In years to come GK will still be competitive because draigowing will still be insanely powerful.

Ward is a mediocre game designer and a horrible fluff writer. In a hobby to lives on its fluff that's a combination that annoys people and drives them away from the hobby. Which is a bad thing.
Take Gav Thorpe in comparison. He was also a mediocre game designer but he was great at writing fluff so while people complained about his army lists everyone liked the fluff in his dexes and books. So while using his armies on the table top often lead to one side getting crushed people still enjoyed the feel and imagery of the armies.

Ward managed to alienate a lot of Ultramarines players by making them Mary Sues that fluffwise had failed more than they succeed.
He alienated a lot of Blood angels players by making them worship Robute Guilliman and be buddies with the necrons.
And he drove away scores of necron players by changing them from being a relentless horror that has no other goal than the total extermination of all life into space Egyptians. 

Seriously, coming up one or two rules doesn't excuse something like this...


> "Indeed, it was Guilliman who would have the greatest lasting effect upon the now leaderless Blood Angels. Through the Codex Astartes - that great treatise on the restructuring and ordering of the Space Marines - Guilliman's legacy would reshape the Blood Angels Legion into the Chapters that defend the Imperium to this day." - Codex Blood Angels, p. 7


----------



## revilo44

I agree that some of his ward fluff is kinda rubbish Eg 



> He alienated a lot of Blood angels players by making them worship Robute Guilliman and be buddies with the necrons


This is the thing I hate the most about the blood angles codex . But I do like how he made necons into talking machines with personality.


----------



## Zion

Here we go again about Matt Ward. Weee.



Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Ward's fluff is abysmal. My poor Necrons are unrecogniseable, thanks to GW's attempt to get all the 12 year-olds to buy the robots with ray guns. However, his rules are fantastic. Vanilla marines are _still_ competitive, and the dex is what, years old now? If only Ward could write rules and have some kind of Fluff Board to approve all major changes. (Like the C'tan... jeez, you can't just put them in metal bawkses!)


Necrons were in need of a lot because despite what you think of the flavor of the old codex, it sucked tactically. And from what we were hearing leading up to it's release it was in the works for a while, Ward just finished it. So those changes to the fluff aren't really his fault.



Chryckan said:


> The reason his codexes holds up is because when they are released are so over powered that it takes years of the other armies getting adjusted to his codexes before they are balanced.


Your statement is full of bias, but sure, let's run with it. No, they aren't. Grey Knights, the "most broken army ever" is actually STRUGGLING in this current edition. The same edition Matt Ward helped write.



Chryckan said:


> In years to come GK will still be competitive because draigowing will still be insanely powerful.


Draigowing was a joke then, and it's a show on Comedy Centeral now. It's only saving grace is in kill teams, and you can still table them pretty damned easilly.



Chryckan said:


> Ward is a mediocre game designer and a horrible fluff writer. In a hobby to lives on its fluff that's a combination that annoys people and drives them away from the hobby. Which is a bad thing.


Again, this is personal opinion. I've read claims that Kelly is the worst designer GW has because of what he did with Space Wolves and how Dark Eldar couldn't even stay completely effective in the edition change and how he still hasn't given Banshees assault grenades.



Chryckan said:


> Take Gav Thorpe in comparison. He was also a mediocre game designer but he was great at writing fluff so while people complained about his army lists everyone liked the fluff in his dexes and books. So while using his armies on the table top often lead to one side getting crushed people still enjoyed the feel and imagery of the armies.


Thrope also go so much hate on the CSM codex he worked on that he publicly addressed it and kindly told people that they were wrong about everything. GW writers don't work alone, they usually have instructions on what they're doing unless it's a personal pet project, and even then it needs to be approved by the folks they work with.



Chryckan said:


> Ward managed to alienate a lot of Ultramarines players by making them Mary Sues that fluffwise had failed more than they succeed.


This has been addressed before. When he was tasked with that book it was Codex: Ultramarines. Then right before they decided to print it the choice was made to make it about all the Codex chapters which meant they just kind of got shoved in there on top of what Ward had already done, and there wasn't enough time to make a full set of rewrites on everything so it went as is.



Chryckan said:


> He alienated a lot of Blood angels players by making them worship Robute Guilliman and be buddies with the necrons.


He didn't make them buddies with the Necrons, he had 1 situation where they stopped shooting at each other to shoot at Nids and both sides were so fucked over from that they said "fuck it" and went home (at least the Crons did, knowing their technology they could leave before the Blood Angels could even fire if they wanted too). The _internet_ makes it all about how their "super best friends forever".



Chryckan said:


> And he drove away scores of necron players by changing them from being a relentless horror that has no other goal than the total extermination of all life into space Egyptians.


They've _always_ been space Egyptians, only now they have a wider appeal to more people. You know the only people really hurt by this whole thing? Those who didn't (or refuse to) notice that Necrons have had personality in the past, that the ones who have personality are still just the ones in charge (like before), and you can still play a mindless, shambling horde if you want (because corrupted Tomb Worlds STILL exist).



Chryckan said:


> Seriously, coming up one or two rules doesn't excuse something like this...


Being biased and ignorant of things like the fact that Necron Lords had personalities in the past, or that the Ultramarine fiasco was due to a design change that he didn't decide on that was made worse by time limits and choosing it to blame it on one person is also inexcusable. If you're going to accuse someone of something you might want to look it up.

Now that isn't to say Matt Ward is perfect, none of the design team is, just look at how poorly internally balanced IG are, or how much cheaper Space Wolf EVERYTHING is compared to Space Marines regardless of it being on a similar (or sometimes better) option. Matt Ward is someone who has shown a lot of passion for what he's doing, and really just needs an editor to help him focus his ideas better when he's writing fluff. He's got good ideas, but they often get lost to fan overreactions or badly explained fluff material.

So can we please finally stop bitching about him? Or at the very least do so in a thread over in General 40k so it doesn't drag this one off topic.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

After reading the Necron 'dex I came to the conclusion, as a new player for that time, the they were a mix of the personality of the Goa'uld from Stargate with the Cylon bodies of original series Battle Star Galactica.


----------



## MidnightSun

And you are, of course, aware that the fluff in the Codexes is not objective?

Midnight


----------



## Bindi Baji

Chryckan said:


> The reason his codexes holds up is because when they are released are so over powered that it takes years of the other armies getting adjusted to his codexes before they are balanced.
> In years to come GK will still be competitive because draigowing will still be insanely powerful.
> 
> Ward is a mediocre game designer and a horrible fluff writer. In a hobby to lives on its fluff that's a combination that annoys people and drives them away from the hobby. Which is a bad thing.
> Take Gav Thorpe in comparison. He was also a mediocre game designer but he was great at writing fluff so while people complained about his army lists everyone liked the fluff in his dexes and books. So while using his armies on the table top often lead to one side getting crushed people still enjoyed the feel and imagery of the armies.


Right, go through all of his rules and works and see if that applies to all or most of them, 
if it doesn't then you will be armed with the knowledge that you have been speaking from the incorrect orifice and can now go on to become a better person


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> Large "Super-Dreadnought" (described as "Imagine if the current Space Marine dreadnought was the mommy and the Contemptor was the daddy - and the kid was enormous") (also described as a "large Contemptor dread")
> New "suit" - smaller than a Dreadnought, larger than a Terminator


I think they ran out of ideas and are now stealing from the Tau.


----------



## Mokuren

Zion said:


> Again, this is personal opinion. I've read claims that Kelly is the worst designer GW has because of what he did with Space Wolves and how Dark Eldar couldn't even stay completely effective in the edition change and how he still hasn't given Banshees assault grenades.


Well, in all honesty, banshees still not having assault grenades makes them about as useful as chaos possessed, who have no assault grenades, don't shoot for shit and will therefore always attack at I1 forever because all it takes is for one model in the entire unit to stump his toe against a pebble and they all get slaughtered.

Same thing for daemon princes or anything CC based that isn't an infantry model with grenades, even the "Siege Crawler" walker is effectively stopped and annihilated by a single pebble in the way. So much for siege crawling.

I blame the core rules for this, there should be an exception to that rule for certain types of creatures or a special rule or something that allows people to ignore it even if they don't get the standard-issue grenades because it sincerely doesn't make sense for them to have fluff-wise.

So I understand a lot of the hate is misguided, but this doesn't mean there aren't issues around, including Matt Ward's works. Whether it's his fault or not, you try and play a 750 points league with no fortifications or allies allowed and be sisters against necrons that field 4 skimmers, three of which with AV 13, jink, 4 TL shots that can as well become 12 if one is outrageously lucky that slaughter all of your infantry and blow up your tanks with about the same ease, and the fourth one has 4 hull points and automatically resurrects his troops, and every single one of these pieces is way cheaper than your only long range anti-tank option in the entire "codex".

Okay, I deserve to lose because I insist in playing sisters and they're right in taunting me and calling me an idiot, but this doesn't change the fact that there's people against which I might as well concede without bothering to pull out the minis and we'd all have more fun that way.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Mokuren said:


> So I understand a lot of the hate is misguided, but this doesn't mean there aren't issues around, including Matt Ward's works. Whether it's his fault or not, you try and play a 750 points league with no fortifications or allies allowed and be sisters against necrons that field 4 skimmers, three of which with AV 13, jink, 4 TL shots that can as well become 12 if one is outrageously lucky that slaughter all of your infantry and blow up your tanks with about the same ease, and the fourth one has 4 hull points and automatically resurrects his troops, and every single one of these pieces is way cheaper than your only long range anti-tank option in the entire "codex".


To be fair that problem has more to do with the lackluster SoB codex (which was lackluster when it was released) than the Necron codex. Until the Sisters get a proper codex with 6ed gear I think they are just going to be in for a rough ride. I have about 600-700 points of Sisters and I haven't even wanted to bring them out as allies (which is unfortunate because they are great models). The only other player in our LGS that plays sisters allies them with Grey Knights (which I think exacerbates the problems with both armies, but /shrug). Fielding a competitive solo sister army is rough.

Ward is just the popular puppy to kick right now. I'm sure someone else will take the mantle of internet whipping boy and then people will be longing for the days of Ward dexes.

***As for Space Marine Rumors***

Has there been anymore confirmation/speculation that some limited form of Chapter Tactics will return other than some of the earlier rumors?


----------



## Emperor's Wolf

Sounds Amazing Thank Zion!


----------



## Vaz

Anyone who complains about Ward Dex's clearly never played against Phil Kelly's 4th ed Eldar or Nids.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

It always annoys me when people blame one individual for a perceived crappy or overpowered codex. A codex is not written by one person, it's a group project headed up by the named individual. Just look inside the cover at the list of contributors. You can't credit every crappy piece of fluff or broken rule to them.


----------



## Arcticor

Ok so I'm on my local GWs Facebook page and they're having a september 7th "release party". 

"Saturday September 7th Release Day Party! Big release coming for this one. What could it be? Stay tuned to find out, I'll post more details as we get closer."

from this we can only assume space marines come out the seventh.


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> Ok so I'm on my local GWs Facebook page and they're having a september 7th "release party".
> 
> "Saturday September 7th Release Day Party! Big release coming for this one. What could it be? Stay tuned to find out, I'll post more details as we get closer."
> 
> from this we can only assume space marines come out the seventh.


Not so I'm afraid, that's the first Saturday of the month and if the Inquisition game is coming that's when it'll be released. Let's not count our chicken early just because Faeit212 is.

EDIT: Speaking of September here's the second unique rumor I've seen out of all the rumors saying that September is the release date:



Best_Pone said:


> Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.
> 
> - There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.
> 
> - New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).
> 
> - First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.
> 
> - There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
> - This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.
> 
> - There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.
> 
> - There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.
> 
> - A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.
> 
> - A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.
> 
> - New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I've thought on this post for a while now and I'm going to post some minor predictions for what imm0rtal reaper mentioned as to what I think we might see.


imm0rtal reaper said:


> My predictions release wise are:
> 
> at least 3 new finecast characters, be they named or generic.
> On this I'm calling the following:
> Crimson Fists Captain Cortez
> Salamanders Chaplain Xavier
> Ultramarines Captain Severus Agemman
> 
> A plastic hq choice
> For some reason I see this as a Librarian with a Jump Pack.
> A new plastic elite - probably those suit things
> Agreed.
> The plastic super, whatever it may be
> Honestly, I see this being a Knight Titan. The Terminus Ultra just doesn't seem to fall in line IMHO due to the fact that its just a regular Landraider with minor sprue upgrade from the Razorback and Predator kits.
> A plastic "veteran" kit Perhaps one that you can make stern/vanguard from. But it will have loads of options on it and new bodies and every marine player up and down the land will buy one even if they don't plan on fielding the unit, just for conversions. Personally, I love this idea. But, it would render the current Sternguard/Vanguard kits obsolete. However, it would mean more sales of the upgrade kit in conjunction with the Tactical/Combat squad boxes. Hmm...
> 
> The 6th ed releases seem to be 3 plastic kits, a plastic HQ (which for dark angels was a whole kit) and some finecast bits.


That's about it. As much as I'd love a plastic Thunderhawk or Warhound Titan, which aren't happening, I do think we will see the possibility of a redesigned Knight Titan. The Rhino variants seem like they're probably a solid feature, mainly due to my putting faith in what Zion reports.

***Composition of this post took a while and I wasn't aware of Zion's post before clicking the Post Reply Button.***


----------



## Loli

Woot, I'm ordering a Limited Edition IH variant of the codex then. Yippee. Can't wait, I've never had much interest in the limited edition variants, until I got this. 

I'm curious what the new plastic HQ would be, I just don't see it being a jump pack Libby. 

I agree with Jace regarding the fine cast characters, but I'm just psyched for it. Though regarding the 7 variants I just don't see it being BT. Since then in theory if the rumours of their own dex are true they then get two LE Covers. Plus I imagine their dex to be different to the Vanilla so in theory you telling Templars players to use the Vanilla in the mean time which can screw them over if some of there purchases aren't available in the BT dex, I know you could always allies them I but I just can't see it. I honestly think, if it's going to be another Loyalist chapter it will be Crimson fists instead of Templar.

Reading the comments, all the DA players whinging is unreal.


----------



## Arcticor

noooo I thought I found something useful  I guess I'll leave that job to you Zion.


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> noooo I thought I found something useful  I guess I'll leave that job to you Zion.


Don't quit posting stuff just because I don't agree with the September timeline being when Space Marines MUST be coming out (I did update the first post to show September-October as a projected release however). Seriously we can always use more people posting rumors.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Loli said:


> Woot, I'm ordering a Limited Edition IH variant of the codex then. Yippee. Can't wait, I've never had much interest in the limited edition variants, until I got this.
> 
> I'm curious what the new plastic HQ would be, I just don't see it being a jump pack Libby.
> 
> I agree with Jace regarding the fine cast characters, but I'm just psyched for it. Though regarding the 7 variants I just don't see it being BT. Since then in theory if the rumours of their own dex are true they then get two LE Covers. Plus I imagine their dex to be different to the Vanilla so in theory you telling Templars players to use the Vanilla in the mean time which can screw them over if some of there purchases aren't available in the BT dex, I know you could always allies them I but I just can't see it. I honestly think, if it's going to be another Loyalist chapter it will be Crimson fists instead of Templar.
> 
> Reading the comments, all the DA players whinging is unreal.


Honestly, I'd prefer it to not be a Jump Pack Libby either, but, its just the feeling I have due to a kit for this particular Libby variant not being on the retailer shelves. I'd much rather prefer a boxed plastic HQ similar to the Build-A-Captain that we currently have.


----------



## MidnightSun

Zion said:


> [*] New Tactical Squad with Grav Pistol and Grav Rifle options.


No. Tactical Squads have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, and Power Armour, with a Heavy and Special Weapon at 10 men. This is the nearest GW get to sacred.

Midnight


----------



## Loli

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Honestly, I'd prefer it to not be a Jump Pack Libby either, but, its just the feeling I have due to a kit for this particular Libby variant not being on the retailer shelves. I'd much rather prefer a boxed plastic HQ similar to the Build-A-Captain that we currently have.


I'd rather it be a build a HQ. A single power armoured HQ with Libby and Chaplain bits included. I'd even take a price increase on that. I doubt I'd get that but still.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Loli said:


> I'd rather it be a build a HQ. A single power armoured HQ with Libby and Chaplain bits included. I'd even take a price increase on that. I doubt I'd get that but still.


You and I share a dream on that. I'd personally love to see a wish-list of the following for the release.

:hq:
Finecast of Xavier, Cortez, and Agemman
Plastic box of build a Chaplain and box of build a Librarian
:troops:
Recut Tactical Squad with new sculpts (not happening)
:elites:
New armoured suits
Squad box of Sternguard in plastic customizable sprues
:fa:
Squad box of Vanguard like the Sternguard
:hs:
Knight Titan


----------



## Zion

MidnightSun said:


> No. Tactical Squads have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, and Power Armour, with a Heavy and Special Weapon at 10 men. This is the nearest GW get to sacred.
> 
> Midnight


I think you're misreading what I wrote. It's supposed to be a new Tactical box that will ALSO have a grav pistol and a grav rifle options in the box in addition to everything else.

Grav Weapons date back to Rouge Trader, and make an appearance in the Horus Heresy stuff so it's not impossible to see them show up elsewhere.


----------



## Cypher871

It's about time they produce some decent customizable plastic Sternguard and Vanguard kits!



> I think you're misreading what I wrote. It's supposed to be a new Tactical box that will ALSO have a grav pistol and a grav rifle options in the box in addition to everything else.
> 
> Grav Weapons date back to Rouge Trader, and make an appearance in the Horus Heresy stuff so it's not impossible to see them show up elsewhere.


Lol, Grav weapons...they will be bringing back Webbers next :laugh:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Cypher871 said:


> It's about time they produce some decent customizable plastic Sternguard and Vanguard kits!
> 
> Lol, Grav weapons...they will be bringing back Webbers next :laugh:


Next we'll see them with the Shuriken Catapult, Autogun, Needle Gun, and Hand Flamer.


----------



## Entarion

Entarion said:


> *And now some pros and things I wish:*
> -now as there are usually 2unit-type boxes, veterans are most logical unit to get this. Sterns/Vanguards really miss this multipart/unit box.
> -I would really like to see some HQ box from which I can build 2 models. One in terminator, one in power armor. With bits choices for librarian, chaplain, techmarine and classic captain.


^ You see guys. My dreams are coming true. Probably not dual kit for veterans (i guess those suits get it) and HQ multipart box. But still we get new models! And tactical squad ! Feel so happy 

PS. No comment those suits... it will be totally horrible or surprisingly awesome (first choice i guess)


----------



## Zion

So in a twist we may have been teased about the larger armor thing before. Some sketches from a GW event:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Thank you, Zion.


----------



## Arcticor

ok ive definitely seen the second picture before, in another rumor thread. not anything for space marines, perhaps chaos space marine obliterators or something. but that image has definitely surfaced before. it obviously wasn't in CSM, so I don't know what that means. anyone else remember this?


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> ok ive definitely seen the second picture before, in another rumor thread. not anything for space marines, perhaps chaos space marine obliterators or something. but that image has definitely surfaced before. it obviously wasn't in CSM, so I don't know what that means. anyone else remember this?


They're from 2004 and were in one of the publicly shown sketchbooks at a GW event. That's all I got there, but they seem to match descriptions that we've seen which is why I shared them as possible sources for the new unit.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Zion said:


> They're from 2004 and were in one of the publicly shown sketchbooks at a GW event. That's all I got there, but they seem to match descriptions that we've seen which is why I shared them as possible sources for the new unit.


They look like slightly over grown tactical marines to me in the second picture. I guess that might be in the right size are with the rumor. Interesting design anyway.


----------



## Zion

Well with the talk of Graviton Weapons in the rumor I decided to break out my copy of _Betrayal_ and see what the weapons do (that is not to say that this _is_ what we'll see, just posting a possibility):


Graviton Gun: 18", S*, AP4, Heavy 1, Blast (3"), Concussion, Graviton Pulse*, Haywire
Graviton Cannon: 36", S*, AP4, Heavy 1, Large Blast (5"), Concussion, Graviton Pulse, Haywire

Graviton Pulse: Instead of rolling to wound normally with this weapon, any model caught in its blast must roll equal to or under their Strength on a D6 or suffer a wound (a roll of a '6' always counts as a failure). After the Graviton Pulse weapon has been fired, leave the Blast marker in its place. This area now counts as both difficult and dangerous terrain for the next turn thanks to the gravity flux.

From what I saw in _Betrayal_ is that they run about the same cost as a Plasma gun. Now if the weapons wound versus armor they may have changed it so the Characteristic test may be versus their armor instead of their Strength.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Interesting.


----------



## Loli

I just don't see Marines getting grav weaponry, I just think it's someone has gone, oh well since its in Betrayal it will be in Vanilla 40k. Since I know many people prefer using Betrayal instead of the Vanilla because of the scope and so many awesome ways you can customise squads and stuff. If Grav stuff enters the Marine codex I'll be genuinely surprised.


----------



## Zion

Loli said:


> I just don't see Marines getting grav weaponry, I just think it's someone has gone, oh well since its in Betrayal it will be in Vanilla 40k. Since I know many people prefer using Betrayal instead of the Vanilla because of the scope and so many awesome ways you can customise squads and stuff. If Grav stuff enters the Marine codex I'll be genuinely surprised.


From what I gathered, Best_Pone is currently like 19/19 for his rumors to date. So I'm erring on the side of the odds and saying it's possible that Graviton Weapons are making a comeback.

EDIT: And it looks like Graviton Guns aren't gone just yet as the FW Boarding Assault Upgrade set has one: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...PACE_MARINE_BOARDING_ASSAULT_UPGRADE_SET.html

It's the gun that's not connected to any hands.


----------



## Loli

Zion said:


> From what I gathered, Best_Pone is currently like 19/19 for his rumors to date. So I'm erring on the side of the odds and saying it's possible that Graviton Weapons are making a comeback.


Don't get me wrong, it would be nice, I'm just wary :-(


----------



## Zion

IA IX: Badab War pt 1 has the Graviton Gun rules:

18", S*, AP3, Heavy 1, Blast (3"), Pinning

It follows all the same rules as the other Graviton Weapons listed earlier (Strength test or take a wound, leave the marker in place) but it glances vehicles in a 5+ instead of having Haywire.

So there is that version to consider as well.


----------



## Zion

From the comments section of Faeit212:



> The name of the new unit is Centurion. And they are a heavy support choice.


The original post has since been deleted, but that's possibly something?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I'm curious to see if we just get the plastic Librarian, Chaplain, and Captain for HQ. I wouldn't really be surprised if that's the case.
Centurions, that sounds cool.


----------



## Achaylus72

Be interested in what they get, and of course it will make every non imperial army out there second rate.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Achaylus72 said:


> Be interested in what they get, and of course it will make every non imperial army out there second rate.


You mean the same way the Dark Angels Codex did(n't) ?


----------



## Zion

Achaylus72 said:


> Be interested in what they get, and of course it will make every non imperial army out there second rate.


I'd love to know how the rumors are spelling the doomsday I keep reading about. Was there something I missed about Marines becoming immune to low AP weapon (CSM/DA) or the quasi-rending of Eldar, or the superior Rapid Fire range of the Tau, or the number of toys the Daemons can bring? If so I must have missed it and would appreciate being pointed towards the source.

The thing is Marines will still keep their weaknesses. They'll still feel every casualty painfully, they'll still hurt when hit with low AP weapons, they'll still be generalists who can't compete against armies that can specialize to a role better.

Their strength will remain as it always has: being a well balanced army that doesn't have any major strengths or weaknesses and can be played effectively if in the right hands, that's it. I haven't seen anything that says otherwise.


----------



## Rhomdruil

Bravo to Brother Zion! I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## Karyudo-DS

Rhomdruil said:


> Bravo to Brother Zion! I couldn't have said it better myself.


Agreed. To me Marines have always seemed good, but mostly because that by being generalists they have an easier time adapting to crazy situations. That excelling part though, not as much.

I'm assuming some things are going to simply get better for them. I just hope that after DA, C:SM doesn't try to one up it again with something like 10 pt Tactical Marines or something. They already get the Bigger-Toy-Box advantage.



Magpie_Oz said:


> You mean the same way the Dark Angels Codex did(n't) ?


Well to be fair, the last cycle C:SM was pretty much a slap in the face for DA anyway.


----------



## Zion

Time for more rumors! Credit/blame goes to 40k Radio who posted them on their Facebook.



> Centurions:
> The guys are a heavy support choice. They're a marine cased in heavy armor with powerfist with lascannons under slung on one pic and heavy bolters on the other. Think of a heavier terminator armor that a marine straps into. I think this is where Chaos Oblits came from. They look to be on 40mm and I'm really starting to dig these models.
> 
> Plastic Chaplain:
> Like other plastic HQ's that have come out. He is armed with a Crozius and bolt pistol. He has ornate armor and he is in a dynamic pose.
> 
> Plastic Librarian:
> Same as above regarding previous HQ releases. He is helmetless and he's armed with a staff. He also has a wicked cherub flying off his pack pack. I really like this model.
> 
> The Hunter:
> I believe this will be anti-air rhino. Its a cross between Vindicator Heavy Armor and a whirlwind style weapon mounted on the back. It comes with two cannons that have three barrels.
> 
> Vanguard Plastic:
> I saw two separate pics one armed with TH/SS and one with a pair of Lighting claws, finally. Same Marine bodies just with some new iconography to freshen up the models.
> 
> From what I have seen so far the Marine release is going to be huge for GW. Sorry about no pics but I promised.


----------



## Doelago

^No retarded mega Dreadnought... This might still turn out to be a great release.


----------



## Zion

More from their Facebook:



> The pic we saw had the marine holding a new type of weapon rumored to be a grav weapon. The only difference in the armor I saw was 4 tiny studs across a MK VII helmet......so it appears they will fit in fine with your current tactical squads


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Of course this will be a huge thing for Games Workshop, these are their cash cows after all.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Ddraig Cymry said:


> Of course this will be a huge thing for Games Workshop, these are their cash cows after all.


Or, as my niece calls it, Money Moo Moos.


----------



## Tawa

> Centurions:
> The guys are a heavy support choice. They're a marine cased in heavy armor with powerfist with lascannons under slung on one pic and heavy bolters on the other. Think of a heavier terminator armor that a marine straps into. I think this is where Chaos Oblits came from. They look to be on 40mm and I'm really starting to dig these models.
> 
> Plastic Chaplain:
> Like other plastic HQ's that have come out. He is armed with a Crozius and bolt pistol. He has ornate armor and he is in a dynamic pose.
> 
> Plastic Librarian:
> Same as above regarding previous HQ releases. He is helmetless and he's armed with a staff. He also has a wicked cherub flying off his pack pack. I really like this model.
> 
> The Hunter:
> I believe this will be anti-air rhino. Its a cross between Vindicator Heavy Armor and a whirlwind style weapon mounted on the back. It comes with two cannons that have three barrels.
> 
> Vanguard Plastic:
> I saw two separate pics one armed with TH/SS and one with a pair of Lighting claws, finally. Same Marine bodies just with some new iconography to freshen up the models.
> 
> From what I have seen so far the Marine release is going to be huge for GW. Sorry about no pics but I promised.


*fap fap fap fap* :crazy:


Seriously though, the description of the "Centurions" makes me feel a little bit better about the whole idea. Pics will either make or break this unit for me though 

As for the other stuff: EHRMERGERRDD!!!! :yahoo:


----------



## Archon Dan

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Or, as my niece calls it, Money Moo Moos.


LOL. Nice.

The Marine stuff is sounding pretty cool. Can't wait to fight and crush it. LOL


----------



## Zion

From Faeit212. This is either someone's guesswork or implying things about what's to come. It's really not clear and Faeit212 has not specified things further.



> _If a new tactical box was made, it would include more options than the current one and allow all things specific to tactical marines to be built. _
> _This box would only include 2 heavy weapons, and devastator boxes or resin direct only upgrades would need to be purchased for other heavy weapons. _
> _If this box was made, it would also probably be made alongside the new razorback, which is split into two variants: assault and support; where assault would come with twin-linked heavy flamers, and TL assault cannons, and the support variant would have TL heavy bolters, TL lascannon and Las/Plas options. _
> _The rhino kit would be discontinued since it could be made from the razorback kit. _
> _And IF this was done, readers of your blog would certainly rage that the tactical box went up by ~£7, despite having tons more bits and definitely spew hate that their beloved rhino could no longer be purchased and that the evil games workshop is gouging all those who just want rhinos £5. _


----------



## ntaw

Firstly, :laugh: at the last sentence of that quote.

Secondly, if GW _actually_ make TLHF and Las/Plas upgrades for Razorbacks and split them assault/support....what are the chances of the assault ones having some sort of upgrade to make them assault vehicles? Some serious wishing here since that whole thing was heavily based around *IF *the kit happens.


----------



## Zion

ntaw said:


> Firstly, :laugh: at the last sentence of that quote.
> 
> Secondly, if GW _actually_ make TLHF and Las/Plas upgrades for Razorbacks and split them assault/support....what are the chances of the assault ones having some sort of upgrade to make them assault vehicles? Some serious wishing here since that whole thing was heavily based around *IF *the kit happens.


The IFs are why I'm not sure why it was posted as news, unless Faeit knows something about this we don't and wanted to share it. Unlike BoLS I'm not adding this to the summary at the start of the thread until we know more, it's just not specific enough to quote as rumor yet.


----------



## ntaw

It would make sense if there's different types of Rhino that there may very well be different types of Razorback. That being said, if this _were _a true rumour why would it propose that the Rhino box be scrapped if we have Rhino variants on the mill? If I were to weigh in on that thought I'd say it's the Rhino box that's getting repackaged to include the ungrades (and actually sell Rhino boxes), and we won't see a spit of difference in the way the RB is moved unless there's a resculpt of the Rhino chassis that almost all SM tanks are based off of. It would be friggin' great to have more accessible turret options, but sadly I don't see it happening without a reason for it to go down in the rules (ie. RB variants with upgrades to benefit troops).




I'm still (not so) secretly hoping for a assault vehicle upgrade if anything happens to RB's. If that happened and trickled down into the new BA dex down the line....well....I'd be happy, let's leave it at that.


----------



## Zion

ntaw said:


> It would make sense if there's different types of Rhino that there may very well be different types of Razorback. That being said, if this _were _a true rumour why would it propose that the Rhino box be scrapped if we have Rhino variants on the mill? If I were to weigh in on that thought I'd say it's the Rhino box that's getting repackaged to include the ungrades (and actually sell Rhino boxes), and we won't see a spit of difference in the way the RB is moved unless there's a resculpt of the Rhino chassis that almost all SM tanks are based off of. It would be friggin' great to have more accessible turret options, but sadly I don't see it happening without a reason for it to go down in the rules (ie. RB variants with upgrades to benefit troops).


The new Rhinos may not need new parts. It could be an upgrade that doesn't need more than a paint job at most to show what it is (Blessed Hull upgrade for the Black Templars comes to mind). That or the idea may have been scrapped. That rumor is a bit old now.



ntaw said:


> I'm still (not so) secretly hoping for a assault vehicle upgrade if anything happens to RB's. If that happened and trickled down into the new BA dex down the line....well....I'd be happy, let's leave it at that.


I don't think they'll go the Assault Vehicle route honestly. Land Raiders kind of have that role and giving that to another tank would take away part of the job of the almighty bunker.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Honestly, I don't see the Razorback getting such a change. Nor, do I see the Rhino dropping from the product line either. However, it would be nice to see the Heavy Flamer, AssCan, and Las/Plas finally issued.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

The main thing I am worried about at the moment is the possibility of a rebox/price of things that are mainstay like Tacticals. If they go the way of Dire Avengers then I am going to struggle to carry on with a Marine army and I am a grown man in full time work!!


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> The main thing I am worried about at the moment is the possibility of a rebox/price of things that are mainstay like Tacticals. If they go the way of Dire Avengers then I am going to struggle to carry on with a Marine army and I am a grown man in full time work!!


On the flip-side if it gets too expensive than those cool looking FW Marine models are still an option!


----------



## Archon Dan

I can and simultaneously can't see them dropping the Rhino box. I would be very easy to go the Tau Hammerhead route. I myself have never bought a Rhino; I switch out the Razorbacks or Whirlwinds as needed. But there are those who just want Rhinos and I'm sure Rhino sales warrent keeping it around.

As for Tactical squads ... I really hope the rumor of Grav Weapons is just that, a rumor. Unless they supply a weapon sprue seperate, you'll be spending a lot of money to get the new weapons in your army.


----------



## Zion

Oh my. Brace yourselfs for a salt overdose. From Faeit212:



> *via an Anonymous Source on Faeit 212*
> a AV 12/11/10, 11 transport capacity, skimmer tank, fast attack option with medium weaponry that can be taken as a dedicated transport by vanguard veterans


I'm going to go out on a limb and say "Frosty the Snowman has a better chance of ice skating in Hell". That said I am trying to find out more, like if this is a "reliable source" or not.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Oh my. Brace yourselfs for a salt overdose. From Faeit212:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and say "Frosty the Snowman has a better chance of ice skating in Hell". That said I am trying to find out more, like if this is a "reliable source" or not.


Doubt it.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Doubt it.


I agree, that is the most likely scenario, but following up on rumors is one of those things I do. The more I can track down about stuff the more information we get, ect, ect.


----------



## Entarion

Ehm..So am I the only one who finds 11seat-skimmer tank (whatever it looks like) for vanguard pretty cool ? Would actually fit perfectly for my Fallen Hunters unit. 10-man squad led by chaplain. But okay..dreaming again..


----------



## Zion

From 40k Radio's Facebook:



> Centurions:
> UPDATE: Comes with a grav weapon option. I've seen a picture of the back and it is a suit that a power armor marine wears.
> 
> Chaplain:
> UPDATE: Chaplain comes with helmetless option that has a bionic eye option.
> 
> Hunter:
> UPDATE There’s another cannon option that looks similar to the epic version. It’s a heavy cannon option, possibly shoots missiles.
> 
> Vanguard:
> UPDATE: They have options for beaky, relic blades, and a bareheaded marine w/ mohawk! The Vanguard Vets are more action oriented, think of the Blood Angels Death Company sprue.
> 
> NEW:
> 
> Sternguard plastics:
> These models look pissed off, GW really captured the old grizzled look. Sternguard have a marine with bald head w/ beard and another mohawk head! The bolters also have the drum magazines. I have seen the following combi-weapons flamer, melta, and plasma. GW did an amazing job on this kit, I'm super pumped for this kit.
> 
> Tactical Marines:
> The Armor has been updated will small studs, purity seals, and some new leg poses. These will mix really well with the current tactical squad. Missile launch backpack in the new tactical squad matches the devastator one with robo arm. There is a new arm set that has a marine loading a magazine into his bolter.
> 
> All Marine models have been painting in the following chapters: Crimson Fist, Iron Hands, and Ultrmarines.


----------



## Arcticor

damn Zion you beat me to it by 12 minutes. Are there any rumors/speculation about what the hunter is? Like I know its an AA tank but anything on how it shoots, like multiple lesser shots or one big one? Or is it too early to know stuff like that....


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> damn Zion you beat me to it by 12 minutes.


Sorry!



Arcticor said:


> Are there any rumors/speculation about what the hunter is? Like I know its an AA tank but anything on how it shoots, like multiple lesser shots or one big one? Or is it too early to know stuff like that....


Sorry, I haven't seen anything yet. I'll post it as soon as I do.

However I did see this exchange on the Facebook page:



> Q: Are the tac squads goin to be nocked down to five men boxes?
> A (40kRadio): I think it stays 10 man.


----------



## Arcticor

no don't apologise, it's great that you're on top of the rumors and delivering them to us this quickly. I just hope the Hunter doesn't turn out like the IG hydra, aka useless.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Zion said:


> Oh my. Brace yourselfs for a salt overdose. From Faeit212:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and say "Frosty the Snowman has a better chance of ice skating in Hell". That said I am trying to find out more, like if this is a "reliable source" or not.


what is it about these rumours that are repeated every time a codex comes out, there was lots of people saying this was a definate before the last SM codex :headbutt:

if you're going to make up something at least make it original and plausible


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Zion said:


> Oh my. Brace yourselfs for a salt overdose. From Faeit212:
> 
> Quote:
> via an Anonymous Source on Faeit 212
> a AV 12/11/10, 11 transport capacity, skimmer tank, fast attack option with medium weaponry that can be taken as a dedicated transport by vanguard veterans
> I'm going to go out on a limb and say "Frosty the Snowman has a better chance of ice skating in Hell". That said I am trying to find out more, like if this is a "reliable source" or not.


Really hope this is false. Probably is, but whatever.



Zion said:


> Quote:
> Centurions:
> UPDATE: Comes with a grav weapon option. I've seen a picture of the back and it is a suit that a power armor marine wears.
> 
> Chaplain:
> UPDATE: Chaplain comes with helmetless option that has a bionic eye option.
> 
> Hunter:
> UPDATE There’s another cannon option that looks similar to the epic version. It’s a heavy cannon option, possibly shoots missiles.
> 
> Vanguard:
> UPDATE: They have options for beaky, relic blades, and a bareheaded marine w/ mohawk! The Vanguard Vets are more action oriented, think of the Blood Angels Death Company sprue.
> 
> NEW:
> 
> Sternguard plastics:
> These models look pissed off, GW really captured the old grizzled look. Sternguard have a marine with bald head w/ beard and another mohawk head! The bolters also have the drum magazines. I have seen the following combi-weapons flamer, melta, and plasma. GW did an amazing job on this kit, I'm super pumped for this kit.
> 
> Tactical Marines:
> The Armor has been updated will small studs, purity seals, and some new leg poses. These will mix really well with the current tactical squad. Missile launch backpack in the new tactical squad matches the devastator one with robo arm. There is a new arm set that has a marine loading a magazine into his bolter.
> 
> All Marine models have been painting in the following chapters: Crimson Fist, Iron Hands, and Ultrmarines.


Can I ask what a grav weapon is? Other than that the new kits sound awesome! Plastic Sternguard sounds great!

Also, another thing I just thought of, remember in the latest Flash Gitz animation where the Games Workshop CEO brings up the idea of a Space Marine inside of another Space Marine? What if that's the Centurion, and Flash Gitz have been giving us hints all along


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Ddraig Cymry said:


> Also, another thing I just thought of, remember in the latest Flash Gitz animation where the Games Workshop CEO brings up the idea of a Space Marine inside of another Space Marine? What if that's the Centurion, and Flash Gitz have been giving us hints all along


That'd be hilarious. I certainly hope we get a kit of hot college chicks with our pink Hello Kitty marines if that last vid they did is any indication.


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Jace of Ultramar said:


> That'd be hilarious. I certainly hope we get a kit of hot college chicks with our pink Hello Kitty marines if that last vid they did is any indication.


They'd of course would have to come with a snatch hatch standard haha


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Ddraig Cymry said:


> They'd of course would have to come with a snatch hatch standard haha


Of course!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Bindi Baji said:


> what is it about these rumours that are repeated every time a codex comes out, there was lots of people saying this was a definate before the last SM codex :headbutt:
> 
> if you're going to make up something at least make it original and plausible


Umm... Ok.

Included in the release is a new... kit.

That's all I have... for now.

Sounds plausible... Yup.


----------



## Zion

From Faeit212:



> *via an anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> _the big dreadnought that has been seen is not for the 40k sm release, but in fact the big mechanicum walker that was pictured at games day._


Only a day behind me. I took that out of the summary yesterday because it just had no really supporting evidence and I had a gut feeling it was just bunk.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Only a day behind me. I took that out of the summary yesterday because it just had no really supporting evidence and I had a gut feeling it was just bunk.


Good, I didn't think we needed a large mega anything. As much as the Knight Titan may have been cool, the lack of a SM big stompy set very well with my wallet.


----------



## Archon Dan

I like the idea of plastic vet kits and updated Tac squads. But I still dislike Grav weapons. The Bolter hasn't worked for the past 10,000 years. It will continue to not work for the next 10,000.


----------



## Zion

From BoLS:



> *New Combo-box builds Tactical OR Sternguard*
> 5 man box on 3 sprues, similar to the Blood Angels kits.
> 
> *Shooting Weapons*
> 6 heavy weapons (HB, HF, ML, PC, LC, MM)
> 2 flamers
> 2 hand flamers
> 2 plasmaguns
> 2 meltaguns
> bolt pistols
> ? grav guns
> bolters
> grav rifle
> plasma pistol
> 3 combi bolter bases
> 3 combi-plasma add-on bits
> 3 combi-melta add-on bits
> 3 combi-flamer add-on bits
> 3 storm bolters
> 
> *Marine Bodies*
> 5 Legs
> 7 Torsos
> 12 Heads
> 5 Backpacks
> 18 Pauldrons
> 
> *Assault Weapons*
> Power sword
> Power fist
> Power maul
> Lightning claw
> Chainsword
> 
> *Misc*
> Back banner
> Many purity seals and other thematic bits
> 
> *Note*: this is a highly unusual rumor release window with directly contradictory reports coming in from reputable sources. Standard caveats apply...


As the BoLS rumor says, salt applies.


----------



## Zion

More from BoLS, this time from a commenter on their post:



Roly said:


> Saw the new models last night, very nice. New chaplain, new Libby, the AA rhino, and those two new marine+ models. Very nice. V guard, not that interesting.single pose Libby is a stunner with its little cherub
> 
> The new marine+ models look like fat tech marines with actual dreadnought feet, heavy bolter/las cannon sling under the arms a la marneus, and either hurricane bolters on each side of the chest or missiles. Armour playing like a col Rhodes style war machine almost. The grav gun looks like something out of halo. The new chaplain is reminiscent of the old blood Angela chaplain, but with blowy scrolls like the apostle. The librarian standing on a rock is a stunner, the cherub thingies will be removing. The six barrelled auto cannon rhino looks bulkier too, with ground stabilisers looks solid. From the picture I'd say it will 99% have split fire. Each set of three has a separate turret. Different front end too.


I'll be honest, it rather bothers me a bit that so many people have claimed to have seen the new modes yet we can't find a single leak anywhere.


----------



## Entarion

Zion said:


> I'll be honest, it rather bothers me a bit that so many people have claimed to have seen the new modes yet we can't find a single leak anywhere.


This is bothering me as well. New rumors were approaching fast last few days and it is like pictures have to show up every second. I hope that we see pictures in less than two weeks. Is there possibility that new marines are more likely coming on September rather then October ?


----------



## bitsandkits

i seriously cant see GW doing a 5 man tactical squad and i honestly cant see them putting that many weapons on to the one sprue, i could see them doing a veteran sprue with that amount of stuff but i would expect the standard tactical squad with ten men to survive if that were the case. 

Even with maxed out special/heavy weapons in the squad a tactical squad is still mostly marines with bolters and i cant see that changing with this codex, but a recut tactical squad is seriously over due.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Well, I hope the recut Tactical Squad is a ten man squad. The thought of the veterans box being like the the Death Company is very appealing.

I'm sure I'll do nothing more than on the release day than buy the new 'dex.


----------



## Zion

From Warseer:



Endobai said:


> Ok. Some info from the White Dwarf. Not much, no images because I've promised and the forum rules.
> No PM with requests please - soon it will leak smewhere anyway.
> 
> Black Templars are back in the Codex SM, but seem to keep everything - Crusader squad is there, Neophytes too, Emperor's Champion as well.
> Don't know about the vows, though.
> 
> The codex is *MASSIVE*- 176 pages, so almost twice as big as other books in this edition. Slightly more expensive, but seems like a good deal. Still FW books are cheaper (per page), but this book might be like the most flexible SM codex ever considering it covers the BT within its core rules (traits? Most likely).
> 
> Veteran boxes - Vanguards and Sternguards are separate boxes. Sternguards are a bit cheaper.
> 
> Both have massive number of heads, with helmeted and unhelmeted options.
> 
> 
> Tactical isn't too expensive for so many new options including two of the new grav weapons.
> Sadly, it seems there is only one Mk VIII Errant chestplate, but maybe I'll find more later.
> 
> Hunter/Stalker is a combi-set covering two AA tanks with different weapons.
> 
> 
> Centurions are big and expensive, in a set of three - about the Land Raider price, but seem to come on 60 mm bases so like SM bigger (more options) KillaKans.





Endobai said:


> More info.
> 
> There is definetely *more archaic armour pieces* in the Tactical set.
> 
> I've noticed Mk VI legs as before and Mk V Heresy chest plates. Maybe even for Mk VI Corvus, but the angle doesn't allow to confirm that.
> Looks like there is a Mk IV Maximus helmet and Mk IV legs (!).
> 
> 
> 
> Sternguards
> 
> One Mk IV bionic helmet (and the rest of the armour seems like Maximus too).
> Corvus armour legs and helmet for sure. The chest is as always a problem.
> The pissed off Marine with beard head is really great.
> 
> Vanguards
> 
> Mk IV, Mk VI helmets and legs. The mohawk head looks great.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I'm in complete anticipation of pics.

I don't but that BT are in the 'dex though.


----------



## Zion

From Faeit212, looks like someone leaked the US release list:



> *via anonymous sources*
> *Space Marine Codex*
> 176 pages!!!!! $58
> by Robin Cruddace
> Cover pic is a close up Ultra Marine pointing forward into battle
> 
> *War Zone: Damnos*
> by Phil Kelly
> 68pages $33
> 
> *Space Marine Stalker/Hunter*
> $65
> The three barreled Stalker and the Single large barreled Hunter
> 
> *Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad*
> $90
> Includes Razorback 5 man command squad and a space marine chaplin
> 
> *Space Marine Captain*
> 1 model $30
> 
> *Space Marine Librarian*
> 1 model $30
> 
> *Space Marine Strikeforce*
> 39 models $220
> 
> *Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad*
> 3 models $78
> 
> *Space Marine Tactical Squad*
> 10 models $40
> 
> *Space Marine Sternguard*
> 5 models $50
> 
> *Space Marine Vanguard*
> 5 models $40


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Zion said:


> Black Templars are back in the Codex SM, but seem to keep everything - Crusader squad is there, Neophytes too, Emperor's Champion as well.
> Don't know about the vows, though.


Damn, a sham they can't have their own book, if this is true that is.



Zion said:


> The codex is MASSIVE- 176 pages, so almost twice as big as other books in this edition. Slightly more expensive, but seems like a good deal. Still FW books are cheaper (per page), but this book might be like the most flexible SM codex ever considering it covers the BT within its core rules (traits? Most likely).


Sounds nice, might be worth the extra money.

I'm not sure how I feel about the archaic suits of power armor being included. I'm no fan of Mk. VI, and anything prior to that I feel should be considered a chapter relic and thus reserved for more veteran marines. If they included more Mk. VIII armor then I'd be super happy haha


----------



## bitsandkits

im still sceptical, but the release list with prices feels "right" compared to other releases, templars back in the marine codex isnt too much of a surprise if true. Semptembers gonna be crazy at B&K HQ!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> From Faeit212, looks like someone leaked the US release list:


Wow, just wow. Curious to see what is in the Strike Force to say the least.

I wonder if the Chaplain in the Reclusium Command Squad is new or the same as the plastic issue Chaplain.


----------



## Loli

Can someone put up list with rough English price equivalents up? 

I just find it hard to accept Templars being included. If they are it puts and end to speculation regarding the fate of the BTs and if they get their own codex but I just buy then being included.


----------



## Zion

Another bit of info from Endobai:



Endobai said:


> Sternguards.
> 
> Many, many, many combi-weapons. Looks like hv.bolter and heavy flamer are both there.
> 
> Interesting, but it seems they've decided to split offensive weapons and combi/ranged options from the veteran finecast set so Vanguards got all close combat options (relic blade, lightning claws, TH and SS, power axe etc).
> 
> A nice touch is that Vanguards are shown in Raven Guard colours (except obligatory Ultramarine photos).


EDIT:


Loli said:


> Can someone put up list with rough English price equivalents up?


Not really. GW doesn't use the exchange rates to set their prices. Someone would have to find similiarly costed items already on the site and then flip over to the UK side of the GW site to give you the best guess on that, and frankly that's a lot of work to just ask people to do for you.

Alternatively you could just Google: "XUSD in GBP" (without quotes) where X is the amount. That'll give you the exchange rate at least.



Loli said:


> I just find it hard to accept Templars being included. If they are it puts and end to speculation regarding the fate of the BTs and if they get their own codex but I just buy then being included.


I'm reserving judgement on accuracy of rumors until we get pictures. I like to go by the "It's all false until we see proof" mantra when it comes to these things afterall.


----------



## Zion

A (possible) summary of the WD from Dakka:



> I managed to get a deeper look into the upcoming White Dwarf which obviously showcases the new SM stuff. I promised not to take any pictures and since my possible future early insight into WD depends on it - I won't
> Take it as you wish, but this isn't salt - this is what exactly is coming
> 
> BOOKS:
> - Codex: Space Marines with a very nice picture of badass looking Space Marine (probably best C:SM cover so far)
> - confirmed the 7 limited versions
> - none showed in WD, all mentioned obviously as mail-order only
> - small Apocalypse Warzone will also be released (unsure if it's digital only or not) - Damnos (see the BL book "Fall of Damnos" - basicly Necrons vs. Ultramarines)
> 
> PLASTIC KITS:
> 
> *Space Marine Captain & Space Marine Librarian* (2 separate clamp-packs)
> - not to confuse with multi-part customisable Space Marines Commander set which should stay around
> - those are like Cadre Fireblade, Aspiring Champion etc... 1 pose, plastic
> - Captain has Cato Sicarius-like helmet and lots of bling, has a very similar pose to Captain from AOBR, Power Sword and Combi-Grav
> - Librarian has beard (a lot of SM beards + bald heads in this release ) and a skull-cap thingy wihich makes him look a bit like... Merlin
> - Librarian also has a power staff (or whatever you call that) held horizontally, and one ugly herub-like servitor cupid (creepy stuff)
> 
> *Reclusiam Command Squad*
> - not sure if this replaces SM Command Squad kit
> - contains the mentioned SM Command Squad (don't see any changes here), a plastic Chaplain and... Razorback - all for 55£
> - this definetly isn't the prettiest Chaplain model out there but it has some nice bitz, nice big skully Crozius and 2 heads - one bald with Kano-like face implant and the other is a skull helmet (looks a bit iffy)
> - he also has purity seals with massive ribbons/parchments blown by the wind
> 
> *Sternguard Veterans*
> - A W E S O M E!
> - all the best elements fromt heir old metal versions, long loincloths, tons of bling, ornaments on helmets and armor, seems to have lot of bitz
> - finally we get plastic versions of combi-weapons, all seem to be here including the new Combi-Grav
> - nice new plastic Heavy Flamer and Heavy Bolter (version with drum-mag)
> - badass heads and poses (yap, another bald head with beard)
> - sergeant has a "roman-mohawk" on his helmet (not the Sicarius one, other way around )
> - 5 models in box
> 
> *Vanguard Veterans*
> - slightly less bling then their on-foot veteran brothers
> - nice ornaments on chainswords and power sword (relic/master-crafted versions?)
> - mohawk head for sarge (like Lord Executioner, perhaps it's a trend for jump-packers? )
> - some nice aquila markings on jump packs
> - awesome power-sword / relic blade
> - not as jaw dropping as Sternguards, sadly
> - 5 models in box
> 
> *(NEW) Tactical Squad*
> - 10 models, price increased slightly (we could have seen that coming, couldn't we? )
> - not many changes here, will nicely mix with bits from old kit
> - major addition is more head variants and new Grav-Gun and Grav-Pistol
> - some new ornaments on backpacks and shoulder pads (not all, just few bits to make some difference among marines)
> - interesting bits: Auspex is back! (but DA heralded that already), set of bolter/arms during reload (looks cool), badass Combi-Flamer, nice new (smaller) Power Fist
> - I would suggest buying a box of Tactical Squad that's currently in sale before next month (it'll surely be gone by then) to have a wider array of bits (unless you already have tons of them )
> 
> *Now let's clear some rumors regarding new vehicles:*
> - NO new rhino kit, still the same, old, badly cast chassis with massive holes after you glue it (
> - NO new versions of Razorback / Predator / Whirlwind - all stays the same apparently
> - NO sign of Rhino-variants (but perhaps they just differ rule-wise)
> - NO "Big Walker" - forget about Dreadknight / Riptide / Wraithknight counterpart for SM (
> - NO new Skimmers / Flyers (especially no sign of one that was mentioned in rumours recently)
> - NO new Bikes, Landriders or Dreadnaughts
> - basicly, unless I mention it as a kit above or below - it's not getting any update / remake / new model
> 
> *Stalker / Hunter*
> - the rumored dual-kit AA tank
> - lots of new parts, side armor is massive and has some kind of pistons that seem to be pinning it to the ground
> - front plate is also different from other vehicles on Rhino-chassis: Stalker / Hunter has one that looks a bit Heresy-era with a "bumper" that looks similarly to the one Landspeeder has (that belt-of-cubes bumper thing)
> 
> - *Stalker* is the one with dual 3-barrel autocannon-like guns, it also has a nice radar dish, really badass look
> - it's described as rapid-firing AA (guess it's SM version of IG Hydra)
> - now here's big thing: it's not twin-link! those are TWO SEPARATE guns that are mentioned to be able to shoot at TWO SEPARATE targets
> 
> - *Hunter* is the one that looks like that vintage SM Hunter tank - one massive AA turret barrel
> - shoots "Skyspear Rockets" but no details on special rules here
> 
> *Centurion Devastator Squad / Centurion Assault Squad*
> - the "Big Suits" everyone is talking about, apparently they are this release's big spotlight
> - Devastators are Heavy Support (duh!) and Assaults are... Fast Attack (what did you expect?)
> - come in plastic kits, 3 models per box
> - they really look like if the exoskelton is worn ON the Power Armour - their heads look super tiny
> - they remind me more of power loader that Ripley piloted in Aliens movie than "child of contemptor and dread" as someone described
> - they all seem to have same weapon in each hand and something mounted on the chest
> - the Devastator options displayed contained Lascannons and Heavy Bolters
> - the Assault options were Breaching Drills (like that arm FW's Siege Dread has) with Stormbolters(?) attached, no other arm option shown
> - the "chest weapon" apparently gave us choice of : frag lanuchers, mini-hurricane bolter (?!) and some rockets (chest mounted Typhoon ML?)
> - it will take some time getting used to those models on battlefield but with their bulky simplicity they will surely be canon part of fluff in few years


----------



## bitsandkits

someone better leak those photos goddamit !!!


----------



## Entarion

bitsandkits said:


> someone better leak those photos goddamit !!!


lol was going to post same thing :biggrin:

sad is that we get probably blurry images as always...


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I'm exited for this release now and I'm going to be over the moon if a tactical squad is £25.50!

May have SM to do as my next 49k army (yeah I know I just did DA.) just did a captain and combat squad of star dragons to test a scheme too lol. Or a home brew? Humm.


They may not Know no fear but my Wallet does.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Interesting.


----------



## Djinn24

May have to add onto my small SM army. Hmmm.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

djinn24 said:


> May have to add onto my small SM army. Hmmm.


May, just may?


----------



## pookie9121

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> They may not Know no fear but my Wallet does.


Well put. :grin::read:


----------



## ntaw

hmm.....this may very well be why I haven't painted any of my tactical marines red yet. Come on, sweet SM dex.


----------



## Asamodai

Really excited about this. Looks like time to finally start my new (3rd!) marine army. Just need pictures now!


----------



## Zion

From Faeit212:



> *The Space Marine Stalker*
> Comes with a Icarus Stormcannon Array. Both of these turrets can move independently, and can shoot at two targets at once. Both turrets are three barreled guns.
> 
> *Space Marine Hunter*
> Fires a Skyspear Missile from a large single barrel.
> 
> Both tanks have several side stabilizers and appear to more heavily armoured along the front and sides. (no stats)


----------



## revilo44

This is very cool, it looks like Space Marines are here! Anyone got a uk prices?


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Gahhhhh!!

IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR I NEED PICTURES!!!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Gahhhhh!!
> 
> IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR I NEED PICTURES!!!


----------



## d3m01iti0n

Its been fun guys. My army got squatted (or is it Demiurged, because were still there as an afterthought). I couldnt even bring myself to paint today. Im no longer a customer of this backwards company.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

d3m01iti0n said:


> Its been fun guys. My army got squatted (or is it Demiurged, because were still there as an afterthought). I couldnt even bring myself to paint today. Im no longer a customer of this backwards company.


BT are still in just in the book. Crusader squads are still in, so is the champion and now BT will get all the nice new flashy stuff too. Cheer up!


----------



## Zion

d3m01iti0n said:


> Its been fun guys. My army got squatted (or is it Demiurged, because were still there as an afterthought). I couldnt even bring myself to paint today. Im no longer a customer of this backwards company.


A squatted army is one that no longer exists, and it's model line and rules dissapear. You got Catachan'd (that is rolled into a related faction's rulebook).

Well at least Sisters and Templars can be on the same table without spending the game giving each other angry looks.

As for pictures, I will post any I can find as soon as I find them. The second post of this thread is reserved for rounding them up as well, so once they are posted I'll repost them there. If anyone has pictures, but doesn't want to post them PM me and I'll do it for you, or feel free to post them yourselves if you desire and I'll take care of getting them rehosted as needed.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

All you had to do was swear in that post and it would 100% describe why I left Whineseer.


Fuckcheese.

There. I did it for you lol.


----------



## d3m01iti0n

We wont be getting brand new chapter specific models and our own book. GW just appreciates DA, BA, and SW players business more than mine. Im a consumer, plain and simple. I know when a company is fucking me.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Dude the upgrade box is all we need, the BT specific parts are awesome as they are, throw them into the new kits and pure win is the result.

I will not tolerate your defeatism for much longer brother. Continue and I shall issue you harsh penance.


----------



## Zion

d3m01iti0n said:


> We wont be getting brand new chapter specific models and our own book. GW just appreciates DA, BA, and SW players business more than mine. Im a consumer, plain and simple. I know when a company is fucking me.


You've been put in a codex that'll be updated EVERY EDITION. At least wait and see what the codex actually does to your army before you just give up. 

Now if your army basically doesn't exist anymore as is, I understand, but honestly until we know how they're going to work it's too early to throw in the towel.


----------



## d3m01iti0n

I dont role play. I do business. If Wal Mart stops carrying my favorite brand of dishwashing detergent Ill take my business elsewhere. You dont even play BT, despite your name and avatar. Weve been waiting years for our new book, having to stay true to our army and get pounded to shit but knowing we would have our day. Now were black and white ultramarines with four pages of rehashed 4th edition rules to shit us up. DA and BA got their shots and we didnt rate. Thats bad business to me and I dont have to support it. Maybe people dont agree, maybe people think Im whining, but I could care less. Its my opinion and my choice.


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> All you had to do was swear in that post and it would 100% describe why I left Whineseer.
> 
> 
> Fuckcheese.
> 
> There. I did it for you lol.


 I'm not sure who you're talking to on this.


----------



## Zion

d3m01iti0n said:


> I dont role play. I do business. If Wal Mart stops carrying my favorite brand of dishwashing detergent Ill take my business elsewhere. You dont even play BT, despite your name and avatar. Weve been waiting years for our new book, having to stay true to our army and get pounded to shit but knowing we would have our day. Now were black and white ultramarines with four pages of rehashed 4th edition rules to shit us up. DA and BA got their shots and we didnt rate. Thats bad business to me and I dont have to support it. Maybe people dont agree, maybe people think Im whining, but I could care less. Its my opinion and my choice.


Honestly you sound a bit like a spoiled child who is having a hissy without even seeing what they're actually getting. I get you don't like the news but the least you could do as a reasonable adult would be wait, judge the actual product then make a decision, not kneejerk about it on the internet.

That isn't to say you can't quit playing if you want, I just think you're giving up too easily and it's frankly pretty lame how you're doing it.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Just found this:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2013/08/no-longer-rumors-here-is-space-marine.html

No Longer Rumors. Here is The Space Marine Release


OK, lets get past rumors, because now I have the actual releases. Very exciting. There is a new Anti-Air tank, with two variants, the Stalker and the Hunter. They look to be amazing releases, and the codex is larger than any other 6th edition codex. 176 pages!!!! Oh yea, Robin Cruddace is the Author.


This is very cool, it looks like Space Marines are here!
Officially until there is an announcement, we still have to classify these as rumors.

via anonymous sources
Space Marine Codex
176 pages!!!!! $58
by Robin Cruddace
Cover pic is a close up Ultra Marine pointing forward into battle

War Zone: Damnos
by Phil Kelly
68pages $33

Space Marine Stalker/Hunter
$65
The three barreled Stalker and the Single large barreled Hunter

Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad
$90
Includes Razorback 5 man command squad and a space marine chaplin

Space Marine Captain
1 model $30

Space Marine Librarian
1 model $30

Space Marine Strikeforce
39 models $220

Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad
3 models $78

Space Marine Tactical Squad
10 models $40

Space Marine Sternguard
5 models $50

Space Marine Vanguard
5 models $40


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

@Zion. I was directing it at You, the whole post pictures, talking to users and getting involved and not being an ass. as a mod. you win. All you get on Whineseer is needles post deleting, threatening and general assholeism.

Demo, I don't have a full BT army but i have an allied contingent worth, about 700pts. The Army can still be used and I'm just trying to get you to look at the positives. Templars don't need a whole new book, a page with a couple of rules is all the Army needs. 

My DA wont be getting the new tank, new centurions and wont be getting grav weapons either. 

I'm not going to accuse you of whining but if you yourself are starting to think that's what others will think.....

Edit. Well.... see what Zion said.


----------



## ntaw

Words_of_Truth said:


> No Longer Rumors. Here is The Space Marine Release


:laugh: Are they _actually_ suggesting the dude from the game Space Marine is on the cover?!


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> Just found this:
> 
> http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2013/08/no-longer-rumors-here-is-space-marine.html
> 
> No Longer Rumors. Here is The Space Marine Release
> 
> 
> OK, lets get past rumors, because now I have the actual releases. Very exciting. There is a new Anti-Air tank, with two variants, the Stalker and the Hunter. They look to be amazing releases, and the codex is larger than any other 6th edition codex. 176 pages!!!! Oh yea, Robin Cruddace is the Author.
> 
> 
> This is very cool, it looks like Space Marines are here!
> Officially until there is an announcement, we still have to classify these as rumors.
> 
> via anonymous sources
> Space Marine Codex
> 176 pages!!!!! $58
> by Robin Cruddace
> Cover pic is a close up Ultra Marine pointing forward into battle
> 
> War Zone: Damnos
> by Phil Kelly
> 68pages $33
> 
> Space Marine Stalker/Hunter
> $65
> The three barreled Stalker and the Single large barreled Hunter
> 
> Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad
> $90
> Includes Razorback 5 man command squad and a space marine chaplin
> 
> Space Marine Captain
> 1 model $30
> 
> Space Marine Librarian
> 1 model $30
> 
> Space Marine Strikeforce
> 39 models $220
> 
> Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad
> 3 models $78
> 
> Space Marine Tactical Squad
> 10 models $40
> 
> Space Marine Sternguard
> 5 models $50
> 
> Space Marine Vanguard
> 5 models $40


We snuck that in a couple pages ago. 



Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> @Zion. I was directing it at You, the whole post pictures, talking to users and getting involved and not being an ass. as a mod. you win. All you get on Whineseer is needles post deleting, threatening and general assholeism.


Ah, okay. I wasn't sure because I didn't have the fully context I wasn't sure what you meant. I'm glad to hear I'm not doing horrible. :biggrin:


----------



## d3m01iti0n

I have the freedom to do so. Given GWs track record Im positive that I outlined exactly what we get. And Im sure SoB gets the axe next, or gets rolled into Inquisition. If youre cool with that, more power to you. Youre a better person than I.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Clearly if you define how good a person is on how well they take the news of their plastic toy soldier hobby.

I judge a person more on their Loyalty, Integrity and Selflessness but each to their own I guess!


----------



## Zion

d3m01iti0n said:


> I have the freedom to do so. Given GWs track record Im positive that I outlined exactly what we get. And Im sure SoB gets the axe next, or gets rolled into Inquisition. If youre cool with that, more power to you. Youre a better person than I.


I won't stop anyone from quitting if they want, I just feel that quitting before you've seen the actual result is rather premature.

Also this rumor thread is about Codex: Space Marines, please keep it on that. Let's not turn this into a thread about the evils we _think_ GW might be about to do to other armies. Thank you.


----------



## Bindi Baji

BT weren't in the drafts,
if it's in - it's a late addition, i'm still not convinced though,
there were quite a few rumours of BT sprues a year ago and while the other BT rumours were admitted to be made up I tend to think there was something to the sprues rumour.



d3m01iti0n said:


> My army got squatted





d3m01iti0n said:


> I have the freedom to do so. Given GWs track record Im positive that I outlined exactly what we get. And Im sure SoB gets the axe next, or gets rolled into Inquisition. If youre cool with that, more power to you. Youre a better person than I.





d3m01iti0n said:


> I want my mummy, it's not fair.


somebody local please give him a slap, 
it doesn't need to be too hard, 
just hard enough to wake him from the hysteria


----------



## Loli

d3m01iti0n said:


> I dont role play. I do business. If Wal Mart stops carrying my favorite brand of dishwashing detergent Ill take my business elsewhere. You dont even play BT, despite your name and avatar. Weve been waiting years for our new book, having to stay true to our army and get pounded to shit but knowing we would have our day. Now were black and white ultramarines with four pages of rehashed 4th edition rules to shit us up. DA and BA got their shots and we didnt rate. Thats bad business to me and I dont have to support it. Maybe people dont agree, maybe people think Im whining, but I could care less. Its my opinion and my choice.


Oh please STFU! 

First up all this is rumour! It wasn't a month ago that there were 'leaks' of rules and such for a BT dex which you were stroking your skin for. And now again because of rumour with no proof to support it your crying like a butt hurt child. This is all rumour with no images to even support it. Even if you use the argument the rumour has come up a few times, without images, that could just be one guy seeing a rumour and then typing something similar and calling it news. 

And hell, if they are true, you're being included into a dex that gets updated every edition, always gets new toys. Loads of players would love that. And heck as a Sisters player I'd love to be in a position like that! Oh and I also play Iron Hands, which aren't even in the current book and barely get a mention, let alone playable rules and specific models, and they are a fucking first founding chapter and have been around since before the HH, all while your crappy Imperial Fists off shoot apparently get their own entries. Again loads of people would love to be in the position BT are RUMOURED to be in. 

Or would you prefer your BTs be omitted so you can go back to whining about how your chapter is of unknown status using a vastly outdated book with no sign of renewal?

And even if the do get rolled in, that doesn't mean it's the end. There is a wonderful thing called supplements. Maybe a BT supplement will have those rules and stuff you were stroking your skin not to long ago. Oh will yo complain about that too?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Bindi Baji said:


> somebody local please give him a slap,
> it doesn't need to be too hard,
> just hard enough to wake him from the hysteria


With or without pants on?


----------



## Zion

Alright, we've gone far enough off topic. If you wish to discuss if someone should or should not quit playing 40k because of the codex rumors please take it to General 40k. Thank you.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

OK  Back to topic!


I'm wondering how long it is until we get the little teaser off the GW site. Pics usualy start to leak just after that. (that inevitably has a little clip of DoW or Space marine sound track lol)

The thing I most want to see is the Tactical squad set. Being the most fundamental part of any marine army I think this is the most important.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Alright, we've gone far enough off topic. If you wish to discuss if someone should or should not quit playing 40k because of the codex rumors please take it to General 40k. Thank you.


I was waiting for the red text to show up and figured that last comment would do it.

Moving on.

Any word on if the multiple Codex issues will have Raymond Swanland as the artist?


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> OK  Back to topic!
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how long it is until we get the little teaser off the GW site. Pics usualy start to leak just after that. (that inevitably has a little clip of DoW or Space marine sound track lol)
> 
> The thing I most want to see is the Tactical squad set. Being the most fundamental part of any marine army I think this is the most important.


Pictures show up anytime in the month prior to release but the teaser shows up on the Monday prior to the Saturday that pre-orders go live (last Saturday of the month when the WD goes live).



Jace of Ultramar said:


> I was waiting for the red text to show up and figured that last comment would do it.
> 
> Moving on.


I'd like to not be an asshole mod, please don't try and put me into that position. I prefer to bring rumors and news instead of infractions and red text.



Jace of Ultramar said:


> Any word on if the multiple Codex issues will have Raymond Swanland as the artist?


I haven't seen anything about who did any art for this.

I HAVE seen a claim that the fluff is being handled by a separate group from the Devs as of this year (apparently the change over was Lizardmen) and the Devs are all focusing more on the crunch which means they can be working on more projects at once if this is true.


----------



## Loli

Zion said:


> I HAVE seen a claim that the fluff is being handled by a separate group from the Devs as of this year (apparently the change over was Lizardmen) and the Devs are all focusing more on the crunch which means they can be working on more projects at once if this is true.


Well hopefully then this will put an end to the Ward kills fluff crap that pops up once a month or so. Though this is a good idea regardless.


----------



## ntaw

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> The thing I most want to see is the Tactical squad set. Being the most fundamental part of any marine army I think this is the most important.


Amen brother. I think I have ~20 unpainted tactical marines that I _desperately_ want to paint a colour other than red....and to have new stuff thrown into the mix? I'm down.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> I'd like to not be an asshole mod, please don't try and put me into that position. I prefer to bring rumors and news instead of infractions and red text.


 And I'd rather not be the asshole who causes the necessity of red text, but, hey. It was needed for some steering at that moment. You're alright in my book Zion, I'm sending you a kitten for Christmas





Zion said:


> I haven't seen anything about who did any art for this.
> 
> I HAVE seen a claim that the fluff is being handled by a separate group from the Devs as of this year (apparently the change over was Lizardmen) and the Devs are all focusing more on the crunch which means they can be working on more projects at once if this is true.


Well, I'm just curious. He's one of my favourite artists and that's why I asked.


----------



## Zion

Loli said:


> Well hopefully then this will put an end to the Ward kills fluff crap that pops up once a month or so. Though this is a good idea regardless.


I can't verify it as I've only seen it mentioned once so far but it would make sense for them to be able to keep this schedule up.

EDIT: From BoLS forums:



> *Centurion Devastator Squad*
> Shooting weapons mounted both on sides of torso and under each fist.
> Fist weapons: HB, LC, Graviton Cannons
> Torso weapons: Hurricane Bolters, ML
> 
> *Centurion Assault Squad*
> Shooting weapons mounted both on sides of torso and close combat weapons under each fist.
> Fist Weapons: Siege Drill w/Melta, or Flamer per arm.
> Torso weapons: Hurricane Bolters, Ironclad Assault Launcher.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Any word on what the prices list are, US or UK?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

So any guesses on how these new exo suits are going to be introduced fluff wise?


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Any word on what the prices list are, US or UK?


Yes:



Zion said:


> From Faeit212, looks like someone leaked the US release list:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *via anonymous sources*
> *Space Marine Codex*
> 176 pages!!!!! $58
> by Robin Cruddace
> Cover pic is a close up Ultra Marine pointing forward into battle
> 
> *War Zone: Damnos*
> by Phil Kelly
> 68pages $33
> 
> *Space Marine Stalker/Hunter*
> $65
> The three barreled Stalker and the Single large barreled Hunter
> 
> *Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad*
> $90
> Includes Razorback 5 man command squad and a space marine chaplin
> 
> *Space Marine Captain*
> 1 model $30
> 
> *Space Marine Librarian*
> 1 model $30
> 
> *Space Marine Strikeforce*
> 39 models $220
> 
> *Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad*
> 3 models $78
> 
> *Space Marine Tactical Squad*
> 10 models $40
> 
> *Space Marine Sternguard*
> 5 models $50
> 
> *Space Marine Vanguard*
> 5 models $40
Click to expand...


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Words_of_Truth said:


> So any guesses on how these new exo suits are going to be introduced fluff wise?


I really hope it is a recent creation being rolled out alongside MK VIII Armour. I'm not a big fan of the "Oh it was always there we just forgot to tell you"


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Yes:


Damn, I hope this pricing is off. The $40 on the Tactical makes sense. The $30 on the Captain and Librarian seems a bit off.


----------



## Jacobite

That would certainly be a better way of doing it!


----------



## ntaw

Jace of Ultramar said:


> The $30 on the Captain and Librarian seems a bit off.


Unless they come with sweet succulent bits.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

ntaw said:


> Unless they come with sweet succulent bits.


True dat.


----------



## Achaylus72

With the new Space Marines Codex coming out i have the core of a Space Marine Army.

So i am looking forward to getting my Nurgly hands on that false tome of the false emperor.


----------



## Zion

Speaking of bits, from Faeit212 comes this:



> *via anonymous sources on Faeit 212*
> The Tactical Squad box comes with 180 components. Full of an array of options, including 3 mk 6 helmets, 1 mk 7 helmet, and a mk 8 errant chestplate. The box makes 10 marines.
> 
> The Sternguard box makes 5 sternguard with 108 components. 5 custom bolters, and 8 combi-weapons (were very hard to get until now), power fist and sword.
> 
> Vanguard are not left out this month, with a new boxset making 5 Vanguard, each with a different jump pack. There are 4 sets of lightning claws, 4 sets of thunderhammer and stormshields, along with grav pistol, power axe, and relic blade.
> 
> Each box has tons of options, from heads to weaponry. Truly a ton of options to customize your new Space Marines.


----------



## ntaw

Depending on the look of the battleforce-type set I might have to indulge. If Sternguard is in it... and if the Vanguard kit has 4 WHOLE SETS of LCs...me wants new shiny.


----------



## Entarion

I still have lot of bits from Megaforce I bought like 3 years ago (150$, 31 models) so I am pretty excited of new Strikeforce. If it will include all new models or at least vets, tact and centurions it is definitely cheap! But still hope that prices get a bit adjustment.


----------



## Zion

More succulent tidbits from Warseer:



Endobai said:


> *Captain, Chaplain and Libraria*n.
> 
> All models come in Power Armour (Mark VIII Errant for the Captain). Can be probably used as artificer, but nothing more.
> Captain has a combi-weapon which is a combi-grav. Looks *very* similar to the AoBR captain, but has an optional Sicarius-style helmet. In my opinion nothing spectacular.


In response to someone doubting the BT in the codex:


Endobai said:


> Sorry, but it is happening.
> I cannot post pictures, but the BT are using the codex in a battle report against Chaos and one of limited editions SM codexes/codices shows them on the cover.





> Q: Do the Templars look like they still have the mixed large squads or just like tactical squads, and do you see an emperor's champion in the battle report?
> Endobai: Yes. 5 Nephytes added to one, 10-men squad with close combat weapons (and a grav-gun), including a sergeant.
> Emp. Champion is there.
> 
> Also 8 marine crusader squads have one special and one heavy weapon so 10 Astartes aren't required to have both, at least for the BT.
> 
> FOLLOW UP Answer about the Templars: There are two 8-men Crusader squads, both with two weapons of this kind - one heavy and one special. Missile launcher has flakk missiles. Also both units (and the big ccw armed squad with Neophytes are Crusader squads, not tacticals so this unit is definetely a BT special thing.
> We will see if they come with BS3 as rumoured. Still possible to happen.


Looks promising for the Templars, assuming the Battle Report is right on how units should be setup (they have in the past goofed on this, namely by doing the Battle Report before making a key rule change in the codex, causing a conflict between the two).

Also for those who didn't notice: *Black Templars are the Battle Report Army for the Marines.

*That's good press for the Templars (gotta excite people to want to play them somehow after all) and shows me that GW understands the concerns and put them in the spotlight to make sure we see that they aren't being swept under any rugs.


----------



## Zion

Assault Centurions:









Stalker Tank:


----------



## Jacobite

That's a fairly chunky looking rhino! I can see those turrets being re-purposed for some SM DIY Tank sponsuns very easily! 

As for those Centurions... I think I'm going to vomit.... Do they not have helmets? Actually I don't think that could save them.


----------



## humakt

That stalker looks pretty good. 

It looks like I will be expanding my marines after all. I wonder how many new toys I can fit into 1500 points?


----------



## Doelago

The tank is cool, the Centurions... Well, I am not all that fond on them... They look like an Ironclad and a Venerable Dreadnought had a child.


----------



## Entarion

Wohooo! Centurions look pretty oldschool dont you think ?


----------



## Jacobite

Those Centurions look like something Tony Stark would come up with... if he had fetal alcohol syndrome... was 3... and quite possibly high...


----------



## Zion

Jacobite said:


> That's a fairly chunky looking rhino! I can see those turrets being re-purposed for some SM DIY Tank sponsuns very easily!
> 
> As for those Centurions... I think I'm going to vomit.... Do they not have helmets? Actually I don't think that could save them.


Consider a Marine wearing extra thick armor, of course he isn't any bigger so he looks rather tiny headed. I don't know if they come with helmets but they seem okay to me. Not great, but okay. I'm sure the 360 view will sell me on these a lot more.


----------



## humakt

Doelago said:


> The tank is cool, the Centurions... Well, I am not all that fond on them... They look like an Ironclad and a Venerable Dreadnought had a child.


I am just wondering if this is the 'poor' photo problem we always get with leaked pictures. The stormraven in the orgional leaked pictures looked atrocious, but looked better once you saw it in the flesh.


----------



## Zion

humakt said:


> I am just wondering if this is the 'poor' photo problem we always get with leaked pictures. The stormraven in the orgional leaked pictures looked atrocious, but looked better once you saw it in the flesh.


I always assume the leaks are at LEAST 2x worse than the actual models. The flash (or a light being aimed at the magazine because someone doesn't know about diffused lighting when taking pictures) being on in these pictures doesn't help any.


----------



## tu_shan82

At last, pictures! All I can say is WOOT! I'm actually a huge fan of the Centurions, and I think that the Devastator variant will look even better still. The tank looks fucking amazing too, little peeved that I can't take one for my Dark Angels, but my local store manager said I'm allowed to use FW stuff provided my opponent agrees, so I'm going to run a pair of Mortis Dreads to handle AA. For my Sallies I'll definitely be running the new AA tank though, and some of the Centurions if I'm allowed.


Edit: As an after though it occured to me that with a little conversion work and chaosifying, they'ed make for good counts as Oblits for my Red Corsairs army, considering I hate the current Obliterator models.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Total 100% AWE-fucking-SOME


----------



## revilo44

I'm not sure about them at the mo I just want a plastic HQ's

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Tactical Squad box comes with 180 components. Full of an array of options, including 3 mk 6 helmets, 1 mk 7 helmet, and a mk 8 errant chestplate. The box makes 10 marines.

The Sternguard box makes 5 sternguard with 108 components. 5 custom bolters, and 8 combi-weapons (were very hard to get until now), power fist and sword.

Vanguard are not left out this month, with a new boxset making 5 Vanguard, each with a different jump pack. There are 4 sets of lightning claws, 4 sets of thunderhammer and stormshields, along with grav pistol, power axe, and relic blade.

Each box has tons of options, from heads to weaponry. Truly a ton of options to customize your new Space Marines.


----------



## Stella Cadente

What a steaming great pile of crap, are GW seriously so mentally retarded to release this shit?, those suit things are awful, who designed those?, my dog could shit better models, and he's been dead for over 15yrs, _you'd have to be like stuff I don't like_ to like those things


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I'm starting to like these releases even more.

I hope the centurions come with the option of Helmets or that its easy enough for me to convert them. From a fluff point of view having a heavy weapon carrier or sige device with no helmet is idotic. Unless they have force fields?

So far, me happy


----------



## Magpie_Oz

The Centurions look to have Fast Attack icons ?


----------



## Entarion

Stella Cadente said:


> ....you'd have to be some ass spawned reject of the gene pool to like those things


Okay...


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Lol, I just saw that.... Owch man, owch.

Though I can't help they look a lot like the marine type dudes from Starcraft. Be careful there GW!


----------



## Entarion

Magpie_Oz said:


> The Centurions look to have Fast Attack icons ?


Centurion Devastator Squad / Centurion Assault Squad
- Devastators are Heavy Support (duh!) and Assaults are... Fast Attack (what did you expect?)


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I'm hearing of other pics such as the devestators version in IF colours but I can't find them, any one got any links?


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Entarion said:


> Centurion Devastator Squad / Centurion Assault Squad
> - Devastators are Heavy Support (duh!) and Assaults are... Fast Attack (what did you expect?)


I'd actually expected heavy Support for both or at least the Assault Centurions being regarded as upmarket Assault Terminators and ergo, Elite.


----------



## stephen.w.langdon

A better pic, but as always GW are not good at taking pics anyway










Will hold off my thoughts until I see them in person


----------



## Codex Todd

Picture of Imperial Fist Assault Centurions
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1350/y66o.jpg


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Lol Ninja'd!

Thanks guys, was still looking for them then haha.

Edit: Helmets!!! YES!!! Result


----------



## Codex Todd

Stephen you beat me to it!!  But I am liking these, and the new tank looks sexy as hell can't wait to add them to my chapter


----------



## humakt

They do look better with lids on. How tall are they? And those are some big boots.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Ain't very good taking pics or making models, they obviously don't like making money.

But then who am I kidding, these could be dog shit on a base (well they are close) but even people that hate them will buy them if they are a "competitive viable option", sad.


----------



## Entarion

:yahoo: Don't mind me, just being happy. I was really afraid of them but I love them! And now only good things await. Superb veterans and new tactical box.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Each to his own Stella, each to his own.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I kind of like the Imperial Fist ones, the idea is still weird though, especially when there's already terminators.


----------



## Doelago

These look ridiculous. Those _things_ won‘t be catching anything in CC unless it falls over pissing itself laughing from having watched these guys attempt to run it down. 



Words_of_Truth said:


> especially when there's already terminators.


But these are Terminators... Inside of another Terminator.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

They look more like mini dreadnoughts tbh, from the style of their feet to the power plant on their back.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Stella Cadente said:


> you'd have to be some ass spawned reject of the gene pool to like those things


Steady on there Tex, that might be seen as a bit personal by some.


----------



## Stella Cadente

It's like that bloke from pump my ride

"we heard you like space marines, so we put space marines in your space marines, so you can space marine while you space marine"


----------



## jams

i quite like them. will be interesting to see the shooty build


----------



## Bindi Baji

really like the look of the new rhino variant,
will need to see a better pic of the centurions though,
that said I can see some brilliant conversion possibilities for techmarines!




Magpie_Oz said:


> The Centurions look to have Fast Attack icons ?


it's a bit confusing bearing in mind you can't see the jet skates in that picture :grin:


----------



## Djinn24

So... If terminators are tactical dreadnought armor, what exactly is a Centurion going to be classified as? 

The pictures of the assault Centurion d do look better except the middle one who looks like he has to pee. These almost seem like living dreadnoughts, more weapons since there isn't a life support system.


----------



## Old Man78

tank looks like it has potential, the centurions look shite, and I do not think seeing them in the flesh will change my mind!


----------



## bitsandkits

really not liking the centurians, they just dont feel "space marine" enough, some potential for conversions how ever(can anyone say plastic mega nobs) i sppose these guys are in effect marine killa cans /oblits / broadsides/ mid size nids etc ,like the new rhino variant looks suitably heavily armoured. would like to see the other standard marines


----------



## Old Man78

Looking at those centurions again, and in hindsight they are not shite, they are fucking eye bleedingly awful, like the flyers I do not care how good they are I will not get these models!


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Hmm maybe we could use the rules but provide our own converted models? What could stand in for them do you think?


----------



## Grokfog

The tank looks pretty good, but the centurions just look awful IMHO. It's nice to see new units being created, I just wish GW would find inspiration from somewhere other than the bottom of the mecha-barrel.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Words_of_Truth said:


> Hmm maybe we could use the rules but provide our own converted models? What could stand in for them do you think?


Well, they look like they'ron a Dreadnought sized base. Maybe take and kit bash a 'nought into these? Perhaps an Ironclad?

I'm holding off on the kits until I've gotten time to read the new 'dex.


----------



## scscofield

Someone should sue GW


----------



## Jacobite

Yea even with heads on those things look horrible. Their thighs touch for gods sake, how the hell can something that will by it's very nature have to waddle like a 120 kg morbidly obese KFC addict be considered "fast" attack. It also appears that they can't twist their torso.

The whole 2 weeks for concept design from start to finish is really starting to show GW and it's not fucking pretty.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

scscofield said:


> Someone should sue GW


As funny as that is, its not close enough.


----------



## Jacobite

An up gunned/weapon version of this:










maybe?

At least that looks like it could actually move more than a inch with a step.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Ranged version?


----------



## scscofield

You could find a lotion bottle and cut some arms and legs onto it and get the same effect.


----------



## Doelago

The above piece of shit has to be fake... Seriously...


----------



## revilo44

In a daring move to push players onto the other 40k races, GW is making increasingly ugly minis for the SM range.


----------



## Doelago

It has to be this one with a Whirlwind Scorpius missile launchers stuck on the arm? Yes? *Yes*?


----------



## Grokfog

Yeah, this turned up on the Overlords Facebook page. The responses there were pretty hilarious


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

So glad that's fake haha.


----------



## Bindi Baji

bitsandkits said:


> (can anyone say plastic mega nobs)


not with a straight face, no


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I hope we get pics, soon, of the other stuff. I'm much more interested in the Tactical, Sternguard, and Vanguard.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I hope we get pics, soon, of the other stuff. I'm much more interested in the Tactical, Sternguard, and Vanguard.


Yeah I second that. Show me tacticals damn you interwebz!


----------



## Stella Cadente

I bet the tacticals will be the same we have had for years, just a new box


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Not if the rumours are right, older bits of armour and grav weapons are allerady new stuff in there.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Not if the rumours are right, older bits of armour and grav weapons are allerady new stuff in there.


I hope there are older looking bitz and not a repackaged squad. I'll use these as Sternguard and Vanguard in conjunction with the Sternguard and Vanguard kits that are, supposedly, getting new bitz.


----------



## Zion

Stella Cadente said:


> I bet the tacticals will be the same we have had for years, just a new box


Word has been pretty consistent that it's a new kit with new options. We'll see though.

EDIT: 
This image is fake:








Also it's apparently based on this:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

What on earth is that from?


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Armored Trooper Votoms.../early 80s anime. Actually a pretty hard core war story, if you like old school anime I recommend checking it out.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> What on earth is that from?


The model the fake is based on? Some kind of model kit sold in Japan. I don't know where it's from exactly. It was posted a few pages back and I just wanted to make sure no one thought it was real.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I figure if I'm going to use these new centurions rules then I'll use the new Castellax model if it's around the same size.


----------



## Tawa

stephen.w.langdon said:


> A better pic, but as always GW are not good at taking pics anyway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will hold off my thoughts until I see them in person


Hmmm. A touch underwhelming..... 


This:



Tawa said:


> *fap fap fap fap* :crazy:


Forget I said it..... :laugh:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

iamtheeviltwin said:


> Armored Trooper Votoms.../early 80s anime. Actually a pretty hard core war story, if you like old school anime I recommend checking it out.


 Would it be along the line of old Robotech? If so, I'm down.



Zion said:


> The model the fake is based on? Some kind of model kit sold in Japan. I don't know where it's from exactly. It was posted a few pages back and I just wanted to make sure no one thought it was real.


 I never thought it looked legit, more like an 80's Tau cconcept.



Words_of_Truth said:


> I figure if I'm going to use these new centurions rules then I'll use the new Castellax model if it's around the same size.


The Castellex looks too big by comparison from the pic... I think.



Tawa said:


> Forget I said it..... :laugh:


No, its on the webz fo'eva!


----------



## Entarion

Because here is more hate than love for Centurions, I am making personal challenge to convert these sons of Emperor for my Black Lions chapter so people can say: "Hey, I actually like Entarion's conversion. They are not that bad."


----------



## notsoevil

Ah, and now I have the base models for my Chaos Oblits.


----------



## Bayonet

I'd agree! Underwhelmed, not very dynamic - however I'm an optimist and holding out hope for the Sternguard boxes and new HQs to blow my mind.


----------



## Tawa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> No, its on the webz fo'eva!


Dagnammit!



Bayonet said:


> I'd agree! Underwhelmed, not very dynamic - however I'm an optimist and holding out hope for the Sternguard boxes and new HQs to blow my mind.


Yeah, I suppose there are still other shinies to wait for


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

The Stalker tank looks nice at least, and I'm betting the Assault variant is going to be based on super heavy/monstrous creature removal, and the standard gun variant will be a bit better overall. Plus I bet someone's going to find a way to pose them in a more dynamic way. Personally I like them, all the detail looks nice and they indeed look like where Obliterators come from.


----------



## ntaw

I'm saddened by those Centurions. I'm sure the other stuff will be cooler, but yeah...they've missed the mark in my books.


----------



## tu_shan82

The only thing that disappoints me about the Centurions, and this only and after thought that has nothing at all to do with how the models look or anything, is the fact that the devastator variant is rumored to only be armed with heavy bolters or lascannons. As a Sallies fan I would love to equip them with multi meltas. They would have been a great way to field relentless multi meltas (at least I assume they'll be relentless, probably slow and purposeful too), without having to use land speeders or attack bikes, which while being really cool and pretty damn effective anti tank, are no where near as fluffy as a giant exo suit of armor for the Sons of Vulkan.


----------



## GrizBe

Been busy all day so only just seen the centurions.... Dear gods, its no wonder I'm seeing them refered to as termitubbies. 

They look much, much better with the helmets on, but that said I feel it should have been more of a dome helmet, ala the Hulkbuster armor.

That and they need to loose the, what I am assuming are, defensive grenade launchers at the side of the torso.

Otherwise, I quite like them... but definately terrible GW photography again. The guy who takes their pics really needs sacking.


----------



## Tawa

GrizBe said:


> Dear gods, its no wonder I'm seeing them refered to as termitubbies.


Wha...? :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## Entarion

tu_shan82 said:


> ...is the fact that the devastator variant is rumored to only be armed with heavy bolters or lascannons.


You mean that box wont include more then HB and LC or the rules wont allow them to equip other weapons ? I am actually hoping for HF or AC. If not in box I will make conversion.



GrizBe said:


> That and they need to loose the, what I am assuming are, defensive grenade launchers at the side of the torso.


Definitely agree on that part. And maybe get hands closer to torso ?


----------



## GrizBe

Entarion said:


> Definitely agree on that part. And maybe get hands closer to torso ?


I'm assuming that the arms are remote robotic ones given the scale of the model.. otherwise they've crossbred marines with jokero to fit these things.


----------



## Doelago

Shamelessly stolen from The Overlords FB page. Immediately looks a lot better.


----------



## Loli

Doelago said:


> Shamelessly stolen from The Overlords FB page. Immediately looks a lot better.


That win and looks neat.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

With nothing but a head swap and some teeth! I think I will see these a lot in Ork armies lol.


----------



## Asamodai

A little underwhelmed by the Centurions but reserving judgement for Devastator variants and better pictures.


----------



## TheReverend

Any pics of the new tacticals or veterans yet? Not liking those Centurians much... maybe after I wolf them up a bit


----------



## Jacobite

As Orks those suits work perfectly well!


----------



## Tawa

Doelago said:


> Shamelessly stolen from The Overlords FB page. Immediately looks a lot better.


That right there is a vast improvement :so_happy:


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Those centurions are a huge fail for me. The weapons look ok, but the helmets make them look like they're from a completely different system. Pure shite.


----------



## GrizBe

Okay.. orkifying them they look hugely more appealing. Could almost argue that someone started to design them as Ork meganobz, then got bitchslaped for not making enough things in smurf flavour.


----------



## Straken's_Fist

I just love the amount of nerdrage this is causing! 

Just saw several posts on facebook swap shops "I hate the new SM models so much I am selling my entire warhammer collection! Fuck you GW!" - I shit you not, these are genuine comments...The funny part is that it turns out none of them actually collect Space Marines, so wtf lol


----------



## Loli

Straken's_Fist said:


> I just love the amount of nerdrage this is causing!
> 
> Just saw several posts on facebook swap shops "I hate the new SM models so much I am selling my entire warhammer collection! Fuck you GW!" - I shit you not, these are genuine comments...The funny part is that it turns out none of them actually collect Space Marines, so wtf lol


I do think that comments like this are a bit much. No one is forcing people to buy them, I admit if they become the only competitive choice for their respective slots but I just don't see it happening. It's all kinds of funny reading the comments. 

Though honestly they just seem way more fitting for Orks though after seeing those altered images.


----------



## Jacobite

I've never understood that mentality of "GW releases X mini so therefore I'm going to rage quit and sell everything" - now as I'm sure it's obvious by now I think those new Centurions are quite possibly the most retarded thing GW has put out in a VERY long time. I'd actually go so far as to say they are the worst minis ever (and that's saying something sitting alongside the likes of Storm Talon/Beasts of Nurgle and Helldrake) however nobody is forcing you to buy them, hell if you like the rules but hate the minis so much do what I do and -not use them- but instead get some plasticard, greenstuff and your dam bits box and apply a little creativity instead of blindly following what's in the codex or box art. If somebody gives you grief for not using the miniatures as shown in the codex kindly inquire why their army isn't painted to 'eavy metal standard if they are so concerned about whats in the book.


----------



## Tawa

Straken's_Fist said:


> "I hate the new SM models so much I am selling my entire warhammer collection! Fuck you GW!"


I wish I was surprised by people coming out with this shit, I really do. Do I like the Centurions? Not really. Am I going to bin my entire collection of 40k stuff and go play Pokémon? Nope. :laugh:

Hell, I may buy some at a later date just for a sense of "completion" if you will :wink:


----------



## Zion

Found this while checking around for more pictures, it was in the same post as the ones we have. The Captain kit perhaps?










And from the ol' B&C:


Kastor Krieg said:


> There is a BT Emperor's Champion in HQ, 140 pts, unspecified
> what for. There's also a 125 pts jumpy chappy with a melta bomb and
> plasma pistol.
> Crusader Squads are mixed Neophytes with Inititates.
> There's also a "Sword Brother" in most every unit, very likely a "Veteran Sergeant".
> There's a Sword Brethren unit, with a Castellan for Sergeant.
> The Hunter, a Rhino AA Variant (think ZSU Shilka) is 70 pts.
> 3 shooty Centurions with missile launchers, the new grav cannons and some "grav amps" are 280 pts.


Vanguard Veterans Box Leaked as well:


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


>


Gimmeh! Gimmeh naow! :so_happy:


----------



## Jacobite

Don't think that's the Captain Z, it could be but at a quick glance it appears to be made from:

UM Chapter Standard Bearer Sword
MK3 FW Arms and Legs
Severan Loth Bodyguard Breastplate and Loth's hand
Mk4 FW Head

Couple of other parts as well, mostly FW but the point is: it's all stuff already available.

Fucking nice conversion though.

I must say that VV is very underwhelming and looks to be simply re-iconed parts that are already available in the SW and BA ranges. At least two of those heads are and I think at least one of the LC pair's are as well. Anybody else see it?


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Jacobite said:


> I'd actually go so far as to say they are the worst minis ever (and that's saying something sitting alongside the likes of Storm Talon/Beasts of Nurgle and Helldrake


Why do I like everything people say is atrocious  I like the Storm Talon, and these Centurions, while not having much on their own, could be chopped up into something really interesting. Haha I agree with the other two though, (non-Forge World) Beasts of Nurgle are too busy looking, and the Helchicken is rediculous in my opinion.

If you don't like something, don't. Buy. It. Centruions are more than likely not going to be a massive part of the Space Marine codex, plus they'll probably be worth a shit ton of points. You could buy other kits and fill the hole it's supposed to work in. Not that hard really.


----------



## Jacobite

Ddraig Cymry said:


> If you don't like something, don't. Buy. It. Centruions are more than likely not going to be a massive part of the Space Marine codex, plus they'll probably be worth a shit ton of points. You could buy other kits and fill the hole it's supposed to work in. Not that hard really.


Exactly - I'm looking at the FW Castellax Battle Automata to fill that gap should I ever need it, I don't mind paying FW prices for something that actually looks decent!


----------



## Zion

Jacobite said:


> Don't think that's the Captain Z, it could be but at a quick glance it appears to be made from:
> 
> UM Chapter Standard Bearer Sword
> MK3 FW Arms and Legs
> Severan Loth Bodyguard Breastplate and Loth's hand
> Mk4 FW Head
> 
> Couple of other parts as well, mostly FW but the point is: it's all stuff already available.
> 
> Fucking nice conversion though.


True, it could be a conversion, but if it is I'm betting that it's a staff conversion in the WD. But it fits the descriptions out there.



Jacobite said:


> I must say that VV is very underwhelming and looks to be simply re-iconed parts that are already available in the SW and BA ranges. At least two of those heads are and I think at least one of the LC pair's are as well. Anybody else see it?


It makes sense that they basically would be. Let's be honest, they're Vanilla Marines, they're not going to look THAT off, especially since Vanguard Vets are also in the BA book.


----------



## bitsandkits

looking good, impressed with the earlyness and quality of this leak so far, cracks are clearly showing in GWs plan to black out rumours till release day


----------



## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> Don't think that's the Captain Z, it could be but at a quick glance it appears to be made from:
> 
> UM Chapter Standard Bearer Sword
> MK3 FW Arms and Legs
> Severan Loth Bodyguard Breastplate and Loth's hand
> Mk4 FW Head
> 
> Couple of other parts as well, mostly FW but the point is: it's all stuff already available.
> 
> Fucking nice conversion though.


Nothing showing up for me :scratchhead:


----------



## Jacobite

Zion said:


> It makes sense that they basically would be. Let's be honest, they're Vanilla Marines, they're not going to look THAT off, especially since Vanguard Vets are also in the BA book.


I know they won't be any more flashy than the others but what I'm saying is that some are those parts look to be exactly the same sculpts as in the DC kit but with a different icon sculpted on top. 

Suppose it reduces production time for them, they already have the basic moulds.


----------



## Zion

Tawa said:


> Nothing showing up for me :scratchhead:


Here's the URL with no tags: http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2899/xbmj.jpg


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Gah will teach me to refresh before I post.

I wonder if they've changed the rules for them, I'd love to add vanguards or assault troops to my marines but they don't seem sensible at the moment.


----------



## Zion

Turns out someone got the actual box early somehow. From Dakka:



> I already assembled them, so I can't really provide you with proper pictures of the sprues, but I can show you my assembled marines along with what's left of them, if that's of anybody's interest..
> 
> I promise that the lightning claw dudester looks cooler when looked at from above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sprue pics are sort of crap, but whachugonndo.


EDIT: There are some bits that aren't show because the poster used them in other models he didn't post.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Wow, nice pics.
I think the Vanguard look ok. They're about what I expected.

I'm still curious as to "what" the Strike Force will have in it. The last one GW did looked like this.









So, that's a Captain, Command Squad, Two Tactical Squads, Two Rhinos, Vindicator, Whirlwind, and a Landraider. I'm speculating the new one will have the new AA instead of the Vindi and Whirlwind and the updated Tactical Squads. Probably not the Landraider, but, I can hope.


----------



## MidnightSun

Jacobite said:


> I must say that VV is very underwhelming and looks to be simply re-iconed parts that are already available in the SW and BA ranges. At least two of those heads are and I think at least one of the LC pair's are as well. Anybody else see it?


Agreed. Those Lightning Claws are the spitting image of the Space Wolf ones.

Midnight


----------



## Zion

Oh look, more images.

Another Captain picture?









Not sure who this guy is. Perhaps the Sternguard Sergeant?









Helmetless Librarian 









Sternguard


----------



## Zion

MidnightSun said:


> Agreed. Those Lightning Claws are the spitting image of the Space Wolf ones.
> 
> Midnight


Not to be an ass, but outside of chapter logos how can you really make Lighting Claws -different-?

I'm perfectly fine with GW recycling perfectly good bits (assuming they did that) into a new kit to save time instead of remaking something that already existed.

At least they aren't the Finecast ones with the wonky blades.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Sweet


----------



## Arcticor

Looks as if the veteran sgt is holding a grav pistol. I wonder if the kit comes with more than the 4x LC and 4x TH/SS options (or maybe they get cheaper at least), otherwise that would be a lot of expensive marines....

*edit: Zion, those LCs and the arms attached to them are in the exact same pose that you get in the SW kit. Personally, I'm just happy we get plastic lightning claws*


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> Looks as if the veteran sgt is holding a grav pistol. I wonder if the kit comes with more than the 4x LC and 4x TH/SS options (or maybe they get cheaper at least), otherwise that would be a lot of expensive marines....


5 of each possibly. And yes, that is likely a Grav Pistol.



Arcticor said:


> *edit: Zion, those LCs and the arms attached to them are in the exact same pose that you get in the SW kit. Personally, I'm just happy we get plastic lightning claws*


Human limbs have how much range of motion again? There aren't THAT many ways to repose arms for a multi-use kit.

And I'm -pretty- sure the Space Wolves ones have wolf skulls on them. Just sayin'.

The thing is that the design of lighting claws is pretty much standardized outside of what iconography gets put on the back of the hand. So realistically we weren't going to see any major changes to them in this release or any other unless they're for a specific chapter.


----------



## Zion

And now for some rules rumors from Dakka:



Mr Farson said:


> Vanguard down 6 points
> 3pts for jump packs
> Shifted to elites





Mr Fasron said:


> For gear 10pts for a shield, 5pts meltabomb, heroic intervention appears the same. Unknown prices for other weapons
> 
> Sternguard down 3pts per model





Mr Farson said:


> 19pts for a vanguard without jump pack


As always, points costs are just rumors so don't get TOO excited until the book comes out.


----------



## Arcticor

Right right I wasnt expecting any new fancy LC things or anything. And I'm not mad at GW for not giving us 100% unique poses (or something). It was just a comment about how they're similar is all. And I read the prices as "vanguard down to 6 points" I'm like what?? Glad to hear its no longer 30 points for a SS


----------



## Zion

REALLY generic sounding info here from Faeit212:



> *via an anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> Legion of the Damned are listed under the elite section of the codex, as revealed in the new White Dwarf. Even though I have seen this entry, its very hard to make out, so no other information, sorry. They are revealed in shown pictures of codex entries, which includes Dreadnoughts and more.


So Legion of the Damned is still in.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> REALLY generic sounding info here from Faeit212:
> 
> 
> 
> So Legion of the Damned is still in.


I didn't think they were going anywhere, they're pretty awesome.


----------



## Zion

From Dakka: 



> Q: Can Centurions take Drop Pods?
> Mr Farson: Unsure on pods, mentions deep striking however


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Deep Striking Centurions, huh? I guess they'll teleport in similar to Deathwing?


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Deep Striking Centurions, huh? I guess they'll teleport in similar to Deathwing?


Or you know, Terminators haha They'll have a use, we'll just have to see if it's worth the models haha


----------



## Zion

More from Dakka:


Mr Farson said:


> Tacticals point costs down to around the same as Da





> Q: Rules wise, any new options for Tacts?
> 
> Mr. Farson: Gravity gun and pistol, gravity gun seems to be a special weapon instead of a heavy. Apart from that nothing else mentioned in the wd


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

GW is gonna let my guys who love power armour wear power armour over their power armour? I think with so many awesome models kama had to balance everything out and give one utterly shit-tastic unit.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Ddraig Cymry said:


> Or you know, Terminators haha They'll have a use, we'll just have to see if it's worth the models haha


Which is why I'll have the 'dex in hand before purchasing.


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Which is why I'll have the 'dex in hand before purchasing.


Not gonna lie, I was bound determined to start a Night Lords army around the holidays, but now that this is happening I'm not so sure anymore haha the Carcharodons are calling my name!


----------



## Zion

So after doing some math with the Vanguard Vet info Dakka has posted they are rumored to be 22pts each before upgrades (19 points buys a Veteran apparently, and 3 points buys they jump pack according to info).

I don't know how this effects their overall points cost to be honest, or what rules they get.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> So after doing some math with the Vanguard Vet info Dakka has posted they are rumored to be 22pts each before upgrades (19 points buys a Veteran apparently, and 3 points buys they jump pack according to info).
> 
> I don't know how this effects their overall points cost to be honest, or what rules they get.


I'm actually very eager to see the 'dex entries fo all of them.


----------



## Zion

More Dakka math:



> Q: Ah I see now, when you said 6 points you meant off the original 125, so that would be 119 for the base squad, even if it's still 125 with 19 points for each subsequent one, and 3 points jump packs the vanguard squads will be much more functional.
> 
> Something like between 244-250 for a full squad of 10 with jump packs. Still 60 points over a standard assault squad but very very potent threat.
> 
> Mr Farson: 0.o Yeah lets go with that math, its too late/early for me to double check it


----------



## ntaw

I'm going to have to buy that Vanguard box and smash it with a Death Company box. It'll be a mean lookin' ten marines that come out of that mix fer sure, eh?


----------



## Arcticor

Well considering your average assault squad is around (in my case) 235, that doesnt seem outrageously overpriced. But in the end we'll have to wait for the dex (so not getting my hopes up too high)


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

ntaw said:


> I'm going to have to buy that Vanguard box and smash it with a Death Company box. It'll be a mean lookin' ten marines that come out of that mix fer sure, eh?


I'm sorry, but, when you ended that with "eh?" I imagined your planned Marines looking like this.


----------



## ntaw

:laugh: no doubt about it man. I typed it in that accent for sure.

SCTV for the win, every time.


----------



## Zion

From Faeit212:



> There are several new limited editions coming out with the new Space Marine codex on Sept 7th. I can already imagine the collector who is going nuts having to order all of them. (that would be cool, and expensive).
> 
> Here is what is coming.
> 
> 
> Limited Edition Space Marine Codex (online only) $115
> 500 copies only for each book (numbered endpaper)
> 
> 1. Iron Hands
> 2. Imperial Fists
> 3. Ultramarines
> 4. Ravenguard
> 5. Salanders
> 6. White Scars
> 7. Second Founding Edition
> Black Templar cover (with many chapter symbols vertically along right border)
> Crimson Fists Dust Jacket


Before anyone panics, I'm willing to bet that the price we see here is AUD. The Eldar Codex in Australia is 83.00 so this isn't a major price jump seeing as it has about 70 more pages than the Eldar one. 

Working off of price differences between Australia and the US we find that their price is 1.6767676767676767676767676767677x higher than the US one, so 
IF that price is the Australian one it would be $68.584337349397590361445783132558 in the US, but we'll call it $69.50 to match GW's pricing pattern for the Eldar book.

Now that's just speculation of course, and I'm waiting for a reply back from Faeit on the answer, but before we panicked about it, I wanted to throw that possibility out there.

EDIT: For a bit of good news, here's some more pictures!

Chaplain, Captain, Librarian:









Heavy Support Centurions:









EDIT 2: Just as I was about to go to sleep a new Stalker appeared!










...Okay, so it's the same one as before, but a MUCH batter picture.


----------



## The Irish Commissar

The captain I like, the chaplain I like but the librarians head looks a bit to chaos for me. Nice pose though. Those centurions are starting to grow on me, they look better in that last picture. The only thing I can say about the aa rhino is wow, amazing model.


----------



## bitsandkits

a busy night for you zion, thank you for posting, is it me or does the new platic captain look very similar to the old snap together one from the assault on black reach box ? i think the heavy suppost centurians look far better and the helmets reming me of the ones from jes goodwins prototype terminator armor from the 80s.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Nope, better than the termitubbies, but far too busy model wise, and the captain is a rip off, its just altered version of the plastic black reach captain


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Great work Zion. The Chaplain and Librarian look really sweet, the Captain looks too Ultramarines for me. I also really like the Heavy Support Centurions, so sue me haha. Not surprised at all about the different Space Marine books.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Thanks for the pics Zion.

The captain is a little meh to me but i like the libby and chaplain.

just one for people bitching about lightening claw poses. Imagine you had lethal long fingers like that, how d you reckon you would move? probably swaying across your front like the ones in the pic?

And still. No Tactical pics!! lol Only ones I really want to see!


----------



## Doelago

That was a busy night, thanks for all the pics. 

So ignoring the Centurions and not too big on the re-hashed Captain either, I might end up ordering pretty much everything else by the looks of it. 

*goes off to sell a kidney and take a loan*


----------



## tu_shan82

Wow, freaking awesome stuff. I'll be broke come September. Thank god I gave up smoking just recently as I'm going to need the extra money. I'm going to get the Second Founding and Sally versions of the codex, a Librarian, two Chaplians (one for my Sallies and one for my DA), plus numerous versions of the new kits and some of the already existing kits for my various marine armies. I already know how I'm going to convert the Chappy for my DA. Back before I bought my limited copy of Dark Vengeance, I bought one of the limited Interagator Chaplains from Ebay, so I now have two and plan on using the head and crozius from one, along with a power fist, on the new Chappy and use him as my Co. Chaplian. For the Sllies Chappy I'm going to give him a bare head, thunder hammer (back in 3rd ed you used to be able to swap the crozius for a TH for free, I'm hoping they bring that back in this new codex, but even if they don't I'll pay the extra points because it's really fluffy) and a combi melta.


----------



## Jacobite

As Stella says that Captain is just a rehash of the AOBR one and I wasn't a fan of that either.

Rhino looks good, very "mobile" fire base type look to it.

I'm not a huge fan of the pose on the Libby or the fat baby but the head is good and the staff will no doubt come in handy to many people, I won't be rushing to replace my Cato Sicarus based libby though.

Like the Chaplin except for the head but then again it's not like GW is lacking in skull helmets.

Now those heavy support Centurions... they are marginally better than the assault ones... still won't be getting them though.


----------



## Kreuger

So the new command models look lovely as do the veterans.

The Centurions are pretty bad. The designer departed quite drastically from the graphic-design elements that make a model a "Space Marine." In addition they're sort of ugly. 

Though for everyone in this thread who proclaimed Centurions the worst GW models ever, I think you might have blocked out the recent Chaos Mutilators.

Perhaps someday we will be favored with a duel between them . . . an ugly duel.


----------



## humakt

I love the picture of the Stalker. Now I know I will need to do some rebuilding of my marine list. One more amry to my list to build/reconfigure.


----------



## Entarion

I probably will be only one here (and therefore hated by most) but.. I love new Centurions! I love their bulky-heresy-era-master-of-the-forge like armor, their big fists with heavy weapons and their unending will to destroy enemies of Mankind..eh but seriously I love them. Maybe most of all new models (probably because they are new).
For the others I like veterans but not much excited aboutf Hunter/Stalker kit.
Absolutely happy with new release.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Jacobite said:


> Rhino looks good, very "mobile" fire base type look to it.


It seems to have hydraulic struts lowered to stand on so I'm betting there will be a "no move" requirement to fire.



Jacobite said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the pose on the Libby or the fat baby ...


I'm tipping that will be a combat familiar



Entarion said:


> I probably will be only one here (and therefore hated by most) but.. I love new Centurions!


You're not, (they can kiss my arse) and ... I do too.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Entarion said:


> I probably will be only one here (and therefore hated by most) but.. I love new Centurions!


If someone hates you for liking the look of a plastic toy sci fi soldier that they don't like the look of then they are not worthy of your consideration and time, just let them crawl back to their pathetic basement in their mums house and they can share it between themselves and the blog that they wright but no one reads.

I think the devastator version is a lot better but it still doesn't quite cut it for me yet. Possibly change my mind once I see the real thing.


----------



## revilo44

I may just have to get some of these for Blood angels. Oh and I like the Libby and Chaplin poses and agree the captain is rubbish.


----------



## Entarion

Haha thank you guys. Anyway I agree completly with this opinion

_Is it bad that my head thinks that’s how Terminator’s should have always looked? 
If you go by the fluff its tactical dreadnought armour. An this is the original fluff. _

And also my friend, seeing them for the first time, said: "It will sound weird, but that is how I have always imagined SM. You know, I dont have that feeling from classic Power armor that they are 3m tall and weigh a lot."


----------



## Adramalech

GW sure is doing a shitty job of representing the imperium's state of technological regression.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Well they may retcon them into always have been there.


----------



## Adramalech

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Well they may retcon them into always have been there.


Wouldn't help, really. It doesn't look like technological regression when they have access to so varied an array of war-toys. Besides, it still breaks the willing suspension of disbelief of existing players.


----------



## Bindi Baji

Adramalech said:


> GW sure is doing a shitty job of representing the imperium's state of technological regression.


As has happened with every marine codex as well as countless other army books and codexes they will be retconned into having always been there, the disbelief of existing players is not factored in as generally they couldn't care less and are more often then not just happy with their new toys


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Bindi Baji said:


> ...they couldn't care less and are more often then not just happy with their new toys


This


----------



## Waizer

not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but here's the missile version of he stalker/hunter


----------



## Jacobite

Nice find Waizer!


----------



## Waizer

cheers 

I'm really excited about this codex release. Sold all my armies a while ago and haven't touched the hobby since, but these new models have really got me interested again. Actually finding myself watching battle reports again to try and get into the swing of things... really can't wait


----------



## Words_of_Truth

The helmet on the chaplain looks weird from that picture and I'm not a fan of bald heads with beards, if I got the librarian which is my favourite from the three shown I'd have to replace it.


----------



## Brother Anvil

@Jacobite: Seen the sweet centurionhelmet with crest? I sense a few of those incoming as soon as they're available from bits sites


----------



## Magpie_Oz

It's good to see some variations being brought in with beards and so forth as I have dozens of SM heads that all look more or less the same. If you don't like a particular one just swap it.


----------



## Jacobite

Brother Anvil said:


> @Jacobite: Seen the sweet centurionhelmet with crest? I sense a few of those incoming as soon as they're available from bits sites


I did yeah, love the crest, loath everything below it I'm afraid, those helmets remind me Angry Marines for some reason, I am waiting to see if the rumours regarding the crests in the SG and VV kits are true as I haven't seen any evidence of them yet. The crests in whatever form will be very popular I imagine!

While I'm not going to turn some down or not buy them if they are available I'm stillmquite happy using Dire Avenger crests.


----------



## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> It's good to see some variations being brought in with beards and so forth as I have dozens of SM heads that all look more or less the same. If you don't like a particular one just swap it.


I agree, and the bearded heads also fit in with non-UM armies as not every Marine is trying to recreate Rome in space.

I may end up going all plastic for my Exorcists Company project if the rumors on the Tact Marines pan out.

From Warseer:


75hastings69 said:


> Hmmmm, space marines next, chapter tactics, suit sized between a termie and dread with chest mounted launchers, 2 x AA rhinos...... I feel like I've read this before ;-)


Looks like the Stalker/Hunter are what he meant by "new Rhino variants" last year then.



Jacobite said:


> I did yeah, love the crest, loath everything below it I'm afraid, those helmets remind me Angry Marines for some reason, I am waiting to see if the rumours regarding the crests in the SG and VV kits are true as I haven't seen any evidence of them yet. The crests in whatever form will be very popular I imagine!
> 
> While I'm not going to turn some down or not buy them if they are available I'm stillmquite happy using Dire Avenger crests.


That small piece of triangular chin armor that covers up part of the mouth vent, making it look like an angry frown is likely why you think of Angry Marines. That and the REALLY BRIGHT YELLOW used on those Imperial Fists.

----

Just a small heads up: due to a number of obligations today I won't be online to post things for most of the day. I'll play a frantic catch up this evening and get everything together as quickly as I can then. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up in advance so I wasn't leaving anyone waiting all day for me to post updates when I won't be around to do so.

EDIT: Hunter added to the 2nd post of the thread. If anyone wants to see all the pictures so far in once place here is the place to do it: LINK

EDIT 2: So regarding the Limited Editions, it seems the ARE $115 USD according to the reply I got from Natfka. This is only $15 more than the Eldar one which probably translates to the actual codex costing around $60-70 USD. Considering that it's got about 70 more pages than the Eldar book, I think that's not too unreasonable.


----------



## Deneris

Is it me, or do these guys remind me of Ork Mega-armor? I guess some techmarine got jealous of Da Boyz... :biggrin:


----------



## Entarion

As I stated before I really like Centurions but I never think about vanilla models. I always think about conversions and how to turn models more to my liking. And so I thought about Centurions. Beautiful big models with many posibilities. But those feet made me frown. I was like "They really must be so slow and those dread feet dont fit well for them. Hmm. What about Contemptor feet or..let me try this..yea much better (erased inner thumbs of feet) Is it better? Tell me your opinion guys!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

That actually looks better. Nice job.


----------



## Waizer

Personally I never had a problem with how the centurions looked... however the little mod you did to that pic imo makes it look more capable of hitting high speeds running

nice subtle improvement


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

The Devastator version of the Centurions look much better than the Assault version, still not a model that I will be adding to my White Scar based army. 

I do like the alternate rhinos and the Vanguard box looks good as well...too bad I just got all the jump marines I wanted recently so no excuse to pick them up.


----------



## Zion

I like the wide feet better, it looks like the design is to make them more stable and to spread their weight out over a wider area so they become less likely to become stuck in deep mud and the like.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

iamtheeviltwin said:


> The Devastator version of the Centurions look much better than the Assault version, still not a model that I will be adding to my White Scar based army.
> 
> I do like the alternate rhinos and the Vanguard box looks good as well...too bad I just got all the jump marines I wanted recently so no excuse to pick them up.


You may find an excuse, a very good excuse. If you do, I suggest using it


----------



## Kreuger

@Enterion, Yeah. The same idea occurred to me. And that really does make the legs look better. The inner toes really pushed the feet over "the line."

@Deneris, if you go back a few pages in the thread somebody posted a photoshopped set of Centurions with Ork heads. They look a lot better and waaaay more contextually appropriate.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I wonder what changes the named characters will see?


----------



## revilo44

i for one am liking this decision from GW. 
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/black-templars-in-space-marine-codex.html


----------



## ntaw

A thought just occurred to me, sorry if I'm repeating something previously stated in this 37 page thread.

If the tactical squad is having work done to it, do you think other battleforce boxed sets that have tactical squads in them (ie. BA, SW) will be repackaged and subtly re-released involving the new bits or will GW keep pushing out stuff that isn't cast anymore?

I'm sure there will be a period of time where they get rid of their stock of older pieces...maybe? Or would GW just pull all current tactical squads as they aren't being cast that way any more?


----------



## Entarion

Zion said:


> I like the wide feet better, it looks like the design is to make them more stable and to spread their weight out over a wider area so they become less likely to become stuck in deep mud and the like.


I see. Maybe this would fit to Devastators version but they still have hydraulics on the side of legs to help them move in harsh terrain. I would go for "eject" function on those if needed. 
On the other side this slim version fit better for Assault. They need to get fast to enemy. And with those wide legs there could be funny situation when marine actually stumbles during his assault.

But yea we still have to wait for fluff why they are here and what is their purpose.


----------



## Bindi Baji

revilo44 said:


> i for one am liking this decision from GW.
> http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/black-templars-in-space-marine-codex.html


That is very interesting, I know some BT fans won't be happy *but* if it's done properly (and it does sound promising there) then i'm all for it


----------



## Zion

Entarion said:


> I see. Maybe this would fit to Devastators version but they still have hydraulics on the side of legs to help them move in harsh terrain. I would go for "eject" function on those if needed.
> On the other side this slim version fit better for Assault. They need to get fast to enemy. And with those wide legs there could be funny situation when marine actually stumbles during his assault.
> 
> But yea we still have to wait for fluff why they are here and what is their purpose.


The hydraulics could also be one the outside because they ran of room for everything on the inside...


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

ntaw said:


> A thought just occurred to me, sorry if I'm repeating something previously stated in this 37 page thread.
> 
> If the tactical squad is having work done to it, do you think other battleforce boxed sets that have tactical squads in them (ie. BA, SW) will be repackaged and subtly re-released involving the new bits or will GW keep pushing out stuff that isn't cast anymore?
> 
> I'm sure there will be a period of time where they get rid of their stock of older pieces...maybe? Or would GW just pull all current tactical squads as they aren't being cast that way any more?


I'm willing to bet that when backstock of the current Battleforces run out that we will see a new set with the new tactical squads.


----------



## Doelago

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'm willing to bet that when backstock of the current Battleforces run out that we will see a new set with the new tactical squads.


And the new price tag.


----------



## ntaw

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'm willing to bet that when backstock of the current Battleforces run out that we will see a new set with the new tactical squads.


Is that the GW tradition? Somehow I feel like they've (maybe) planned this and have low stock on the battleforces already, or have repackaged them. Don't you feel like it would be weird for GW to have two available tactical squads?


----------



## SonofVulkan

I hope the thigh and groin armour plates are optional on them Centurions. They look like they are just a hindrance. Taken away they would look a lot more mobile. Looking forward to a nice big codex book though.


----------



## ntaw

SonofVulkan said:


> I hope the thigh and groin armour plates are optional on them Centurions.


My hobby knife says yes.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

revilo44 said:


> i for one am liking this decision from GW.
> http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/black-templars-in-space-marine-codex.html


As am I. Especially seeing as the new
Chapter I have brewed up for codex sm
Is another space bound crusade fleet who are also sons of Dorn.

Not as zealous as Templars though and not as fussy as getting to CC. If it dies they are happy.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> Here's the URL with no tags: http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2899/xbmj.jpg


Still nothing 



Zion said:


> Chaplain, Captain, Librarian:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavy Support Centurions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT 2: Just as I was about to go to sleep a new Stalker appeared!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Okay, so it's the same one as before, but a MUCH batter picture.


Liking the Librarian, although that fat baby will be getting pruned!

The Centurions, I'm swinging back towards liking them now we have a bigger clearer picture :blush:

I quite like the Stalker, however*




Waizer said:


> not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but here's the missile version of he stalker/hunter


*THIS is fucking awesome!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

And Tawa faps again! :biggrin:


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Hmm my chapter The Warmongers  may end up coming under some other primarch, I wouldn't say it was especially tank hunting focused but it is rather siege orientated, has a vindicator and thunderfire cannon.


----------



## Entarion

SonofVulkan said:


> I hope the thigh and groin armour plates are optional on them Centurions. They look like they are just a hindrance. Taken away they would look a lot more mobile. Looking forward to a nice big codex book though.


They are definitely optional but as far as I can see those 3 plates are connected together as one bit so you will have to cut out the middle one and replace it with cloin or fur tabard as I will do.



Tawa said:


> The Centurions, I'm swinging back towards liking them now we have a bigger clearer picture :blush:


Welcome back. Glad you like them now and feel free to join our Centurion-lovers club :biggrin: (Check my light-feet conversion :secret: )


----------



## jams

Those AA rhinos are ace. The Hunter looks the best but you know the stalker will have the better rules. I really like the centurions. The devastator variants look badass


----------



## MidnightSun

They are buttresses on the side to brace the weapons, I knew it!

The single-fuck-off-massive gun variant looks *really* cool.

Midnight


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Saw this on Tumblr, didn't see a source right away but this looks genuine.


----------



## ntaw

That marine looks like he's been doing his crunches. Slimmest profile I've ever seen I think!


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

He does look a tad thin. Might be because of some of his gear. I think it looks pretty slick.


----------



## Zerodyme619

Wow...
The centurions look horrible..
I was really a fan of almost anything GW released in the last months. Eldar, Chaos, DarkAngels... But these things look ridiculously bad. Undynamic, sluggish, more like toys than models.
Like the Stalker and Hunter though. A little bit sad, that my DA can't use them without resorting to allies


----------



## Asamodai

Wow, can't believe the amount of new pictures that have shown up.

Devastator Centurions are an improvement. 

Vanguards look awesome.

Captain is ok but is too much like the AoBR model that I'm not too fond of.

New Chaplain and Librarian seem cool too though the Librarian's head freaks me out a bit.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Liking the chaplain and librarian, and the vanguard look nice enough. Any pics of sternguard floating around?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Khorne's Fist said:


> Liking the chaplain and librarian, and the vanguard look nice enough. Any pics of sternguard floating around?


If only. I'd love to see those and the Tactical Squad too.


----------



## Zion

Khorne's Fist said:


> Liking the chaplain and librarian, and the vanguard look nice enough. Any pics of sternguard floating around?


Just this small one of these Sternguard that's already been posted:


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Zion said:


> Just this small one of these Sternguard that's already been posted:


Those combi weapons look a bit more bulky than we're used to. From what I've seen so far, I can see myself picking up a v/guard and s/guard box just to pad out my bits box.


----------



## ntaw

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'd love to see those and the Tactical Squad too.


GW's best kept secret thus far! hahaha


----------



## Zion

My best rollup of everything to date, to include some new info:
LINK


----------



## Djinn24

The truth comes out.


----------



## Zion

djinn24 said:


> The truth comes out.


Not seen: the mindwipe that immediately follows (I'll let you decide why :grin: ).

Seriously though, I have some fluff info on the Centurion armor in that blog post.


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

djinn24 said:


> The truth comes out.


Now that's just adorable haha


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

ntaw said:


> GW's best kept secret thus far! hahaha


Yeah, sure seems that way.


----------



## Arcticor

from 40k radio:

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.

Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne bolters.Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.


----------



## Arcticor

also rumored (from 40k radio again) to be S/T 5, 2+, no invuln. I was expecting them to be tougher, but rumors


----------



## Zion

Here's some snippits of the roll-up I posted over on the *Talk Wargaming Blog*.



> *Fast Attack*
> Models:
> Assault Centurions
> 
> Rules:
> Assault Centurions have Siege Drills (which are S9 melee weapons) and come equipped with twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade the Flamers to Meltas and the Assault Launcher can be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters. They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF. They can purchase an Omniscope which gives the Night Fight and Split Fire special rules. They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. Lastly they have a 2+ save, no Invulnerable save and their Strength and Toughness is 5.





> Devastator Centurions $78 USD - 3 Model box shared with Assault Centurions
> 
> Rules:
> Devastator Centurion come equipped with twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters. Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missiles and the Heavy Bolters upgraded to Twin-Lascannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp. They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF. They can purchase an Omniscope which gives the Night Fight and Split Fire special rules. They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport. They can be purchased in squads up to 6. Lastly they have a 2+ save, no Invulnerable save and their Strength and Toughness is 5.
> 
> *Lore*
> Centurions: A fairly recent adoption by the Space Marines, these suits are only 5,000 years old and are primarily used for line breaking. They are not piloted by Veterans, but rather by Assault Marines and Devastators instead.


I'll be trying to post nice, well detailed roll ups over there every Friday. I'll still do the ones here, but the nicer ones will be over there.


----------



## Arcticor

Woah, I beat Zion to a rumour!


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> Woah, I beat Zion to a rumour!


Not _quite_. If you look on the previous page you'll note a post were I link the blog post I posted about 3 hours prior to this post. It's in there. I was trying to give people an incentive to look as that info I share in my previous post on this page is the new info I was talking about.

Keep trying though! I always like more people trying to bring in fresh rumors!


----------



## Arcticor

noooooooooooooo. I'll get it one day  

But about the actual rumors, I'm surprised the centurions don't have an invuln. Hopefully they're multi-wound or bs5. That would make me happy


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

A Landraider for a transport? They look too big for that.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> A Landraider for a transport? They look too big for that.


They follow the "Extra Bulky" rule, just like the FW Mechanicum Thallax Cohorts do, which means they each take up 3 slots on the transport.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> They follow the "Extra Bulky" rule, just like the FW Mechanicum Thallax Cohorts do, which means they each take up 3 slots on the transport.


Suddenly, the Benny Hill theme plays as these things hop out of the different doors of the Landraider. 
Sorry, but, the first thing that comes to mind was that. The Landraider can't even transport a full squad. I guess to me, it makes no sense. A Drop Pod seems much more along the lines of the right transport.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Suddenly, the Benny Hill theme plays as these things hop out of the different doors of the Landraider.
> Sorry, but, the first thing that comes to mind was that. The Landraider can't even transport a full squad. I guess to me, it makes no sense. A Drop Pod seems much more along the lines of the right transport.


Land Raiders can't fit 10 Terminator either....

On the flip side if the Assault Ram's rules don't change you COULD fit a full squad in there (as it's current rule means models only take up 1 position, regardless if they're Bulky, ect)...but I have a feeling that MAY change.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> Land Raiders can't fit 10 Terminator either....
> 
> On the flip side if the Assault Ram's rules don't change you COULD fit a full squad in there (as it's current rule means models only take up 1 position, regardless if they're Bulky, ect)...but I have a feeling that MAY change.


True, but, the Terminators at least look as if they would reasonably fit. 
The Centurion, by comparison, is Chris Farley singing Fat Man in a Little Coat while it rattles around inside.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> True, but, the Terminators at least look as if they would reasonably fit.
> The Centurion, by comparison, is Chris Farley singing Fat Man in a Little Coat while it rattles around inside.


Let's be honest, no full sized unit (or at least to the max of transport capacity) every "fits" in their transport's troops carrying compartment, except MAYBE Orks...if the vehicle is a conversion, scratch build your you like stacking them on top of each other into a green pyramid.

I never consider the models to be the right scale, but rather just representations of something smaller than controls a space approximately as wide as the base. About the only thing I see being the right "size" in that case though is the vehicles, everything else is just too big (and takes off their bases when they get inside  ).


----------



## Arcticor

counterpoint. catacomb command barge. ok zion question though you mentioned a grav amp on the centurions..... what exactly is that? or rumored to be


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> counterpoint. catacomb command barge. ok zion question though you mentioned a grav amp on the centurions..... what exactly is that? or rumored to be


I apologize for forgetting chariots (now that I think about it, Daemons have them too), but the basic point remains that most transports can't hold as many models as claimed.

As for the Grav-Amp, all I remember seeing is that it does something to make the Dev Centurion Grav weapons more powerful, but I don't recall details on it, assuming there have been any posted.

EDIT: Found the answer with Google's help. From Faeit212:



> *via an anonymous source on Faeit 212*
> Grav-weapons are powerful. They roll to Wound against target's armor save. And amps are giving them re-rolls. I don't know if they have AP value, but in the report 3 Centurions are wiping out power-armored squad a turn.


----------



## Arcticor

40k radio says all grav weapons are ap2


----------



## Archon Dan

Zion said:


> Let's be honest, no full sized unit (or at least to the max of transport capacity) every "fits" in their transport's troops carrying compartment, except MAYBE Orks...if the vehicle is a conversion, scratch build your you like stacking them on top of each other into a green pyramid.
> 
> I never consider the models to be the right scale, but rather just representations of something smaller than controls a space approximately as wide as the base. About the only thing I see being the right "size" in that case though is the vehicles, everything else is just too big (and takes off their bases when they get inside  ).


To be fair, I think most of the vehicles are a different scale than the infantry models. Necron Transports in general are big enough for how they carry their units. The Ghost Ark does carry them. But there is no way a Rhino can carry its payload, though a Razorback might be able to. And the Dreadnought sarcophagus doesn't look nearly big enough, depending on how much is left of the Marine.



Zion said:


> I apologize for forgetting chariots (now that I think about it, Daemons have them too), but the basic point remains that most transports can't hold as many models as claimed.
> 
> As for the Grav-Amp, all I remember seeing is that it does something to make the Dev Centurion Grav weapons more powerful, but I don't recall details on it, assuming there have been any posted.
> 
> EDIT: Found the answer with Google's help. From Faeit212:





Arcticor said:


> 40k radio says all grav weapons are ap2


Really starting to dislike Grav Weapons. But I like how they wound, implying they turn the weight of your armour against you. Hello, Wyches.


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Archon Dan said:


> To be fair, I think most of the vehicles are a different scale than the infantry models. Necron Transports in general are big enough for how they carry their units. The Ghost Ark does carry them. But there is no way a Rhino can carry its payload, though a Razorback might be able to. And the Dreadnought sarcophagus doesn't look nearly big enough, depending on how much is left of the Marine.


The Chimeras look like they'd fit twelve Guardsmen. Vendettas aren't that far from believeable either.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Archon Dan said:


> To be fair, I think most of the vehicles are a different scale than the infantry models. Necron Transports in general are big enough for how they carry their units. The Ghost Ark does carry them. But there is no way a Rhino can carry its payload, though a Razorback might be able to. And the Dreadnought sarcophagus doesn't look nearly big enough, depending on how much is left of the Marine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really starting to dislike Grav Weapons. But I like how they wound, implying they turn the weight of your armour against you. Hello, Wyches.


Death by thong constriction lol.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I fear we might be a wee bit OT due to a remark I've made. 

So, with Vanguard supposedly in the Elites section now that puts a crimp in my Pedro Kantor list I've had in the back burner. Then again, it also might make the build cheaper. Seriously though, I was genuinely wanting to load a Landraider Crusader with Kantor, 5 Honour Guard, and 10 Vanguard and bull rush it intobbattle while 30 Sternguard were running around holding objectives.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

You can only put one unit in the transport anyway so that wouldn't have worked bro!

Never know. The rules for Kantor may change a bit to make them troops.....


----------



## ntaw

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I was genuinely wanting to load a Landraider Crusader with Kantor, 5 Honour Guard, and 10 Vanguard


:laugh: Gimaldus has it right, you certainly wouldn't be doing that. One unit per transport, and while Kantor could join the Vanguard, he can't join both squads and be the glue that makes them one super squad.

Though I suppose we haven't read the codex yet.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

What about in apoc games, would that be allowed?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Ok, the impression I had was that the HQ, in this case being Kantor & HG, could join a Unit. I thought that because the HG didn't count against the HQ that they were with Kantor regardless and that the 6 of them would consist of a single HQ joining the Vanguard in the LRC.


----------



## Entarion

I've been thinking about Vanguard veterans. I checked those pics of sprues and I am a bit disappointed.

1. They are Elites now 
2. No extra purity seals, icons and other bits to use with other models
3. Extra CCW don't come with full arm but only hand attached -> losing extra arm bit for every weapon.
4. No classic backpacks -> possibility they can't be played with them anymore ?

And one more question related to this rumour

_-Generic characters will be able to purchase alternate Combat Tactics options to represent a wider range of Chapters/companies. 
-Combat Tactics for the following Chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice. _

If I get it right, I have custom chapter, so I create HQ and then can use rules specific for example for Salamanders ? I am looking for someone who can take veterans as Troops


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

I don't think we will ever see vets as troops, that would probably unbalance things too much.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Ok, the impression I had was that the HQ, in this case being Kantor & HG, could join a Unit. I thought that because the HG didn't count against the HQ that they were with Kantor regardless and that the 6 of them would consist of a single HQ joining the Vanguard in the LRC.


The HG don't count as a HQ but are still a squad. Kantor allows you to take them but doesn't HAVE to join them ever. They still work as a squad, just don't take an FOC (like a tec marine and servitors)


----------



## Zion

Entarion said:


> I've been thinking about Vanguard veterans. I checked those pics of sprues and I am a bit disappointed.
> 
> 1. They are Elites now
> 2. No extra purity seals, icons and other bits to use with other models
> 3. Extra CCW don't come with full arm but only hand attached -> losing extra arm bit for every weapon.
> 4. No classic backpacks -> possibility they can't be played with them anymore ?
> 
> And one more question related to this rumour
> 
> _-Generic characters will be able to purchase alternate Combat Tactics options to represent a wider range of Chapters/companies.
> -Combat Tactics for the following Chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice. _
> 
> If I get it right, I have custom chapter, so I create HQ and then can use rules specific for example for Salamanders ? I am looking for someone who can take veterans as Troops


The new Vets are honestly better than the hodge-podge kit they had before where you had no options, so I'm okay with it.

I'm not sure how they plan to handle the Chapter Traits just yet. All we know so far is that all the first founding chapters (that are in the book) have one and it provides 2 rules, but the rules have been very vague so far.


----------



## Entarion

Zion said:


> The new Vets are honestly better than the hodge-podge kit they had before where you had no options, so I'm okay with it.
> 
> I'm not sure how they plan to handle the Chapter Traits just yet. All we know so far is that all the first founding chapters (that are in the book) have one and it provides 2 rules, but the rules have been very vague so far.


I am glad they have plastic kit finally. I just expected a lot more extra bits. Anyway is it 100% true they are now Elites ?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> The HG don't count as a HQ but are still a squad. Kantor allows you to thanks them but doesn't HAVE to join them ever. They still work as a squad, just don't take an FOC (like a tec marine and servitors)


Gotcha. Misunderstanding on my part.


----------



## Zion

Entarion said:


> I am glad they have plastic kit finally. I just expected a lot more extra bits. Anyway is it 100% true they are now Elites ?


It's been said by multiple sources that they are, so I'm guess that it's likely so.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> It's been said by multiple sources that they are, so I'm guess that it's likely so.





Entarion said:


> I am glad they have plastic kit finally. I just expected a lot more extra bits. Anyway is it 100% true they are now Elites ?


I understand why, if true, they're changed to Elites as Vets would be considered as such due to experience. Still, can't wait for the kit to issue.


----------



## Loli

Just out of curiosity has anyone seen how the BT specific units work? Do they take up a single entry in the codex like with Kroot for Tau as troops? 

Now that, not that I've seen the Centurion things in other colours instead of the bright yellow the first photo had them in, they have grown on me, I still don't like them, but they aren't as bad looking as I immediately thought. Has there been any pictures on both versions yet?


----------



## Zion

Loli said:


> Just out of curiosity has anyone seen how the BT specific units work? Do they take up a single entry in the codex like with Kroot for Tau as troops?
> 
> Now that, not that I've seen the Centurion things in other colours instead of the bright yellow the first photo had them in, they have grown on me, I still don't like them, but they aren't as bad looking as I immediately thought. Has there been any pictures on both versions yet?


Pictures can be found in the second post or in the rumor roll up over on the Talk Wargaming blog.

As for the Templars, they're rumored to have limited access to some parts of the book (they were mentioned to get Thunderfire Cannons and Centurions though) but in exchange have their own chapter traits, and have unique access to the Emperor's Champion and Crusader Squads as well as the "Everybody can ride in a Landraider" thing.


----------



## Tawa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> And Tawa faps again! :biggrin:


And again, and again, and again...... :wacko:



Entarion said:


> Welcome back. Glad you like them now and feel free to join our Centurion-lovers club


Glad to be back :wink:



MidnightSun said:


> The single-fuck-off-massive gun variant looks *really* cool.


Much prefer it to the other version :so_happy:



djinn24 said:


> The truth comes out.


Bahahahahaaaa!!!!



Jace of Ultramar said:


> Suddenly, the Benny Hill theme plays as these things hop out of the different doors of the Landraider.


:laugh:


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I like the sound of the generic character picking a legion trait.

Just because someone's successors are raven guard they may not be stealth orientated. Now we have the option to just slightly flavour our successors. Really like the sounds of this.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> I like the sound of the generic character picking a legion trait.
> 
> Just because someone's successors are raven guard they may not be stealth orientated. Now we have the option to just slightly flavour our successors. Really like the sounds of this.


Ditto.


----------



## Zion

Heretics.....we have Tactical Marines:


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

So, we have some nice new arm poses, I always tried to get that stright firing guy but couldnt quite do it. A better cut Mk8 torso and legs. A flat Mk6 set of pads and the grav gun, plus what looks like slightly straighter legs too.

Im happy


----------



## Zion

Sternguard with Combi-Melta:


----------



## Zion

RELOADING:


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Reloading one: awesome.

Sternguard: come on Zion you know what a combi melta looks like by now


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Reloading one: awesome.
> 
> Sternguard: come on Zion you know what a combi melta looks like by now


Only when I'm not bouncing between several windows at once. Having an army with proper combi-weapons would help too.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Awesome, Zion. Simply awesome.


----------



## Doelago

Thank god. I can now sleep well during the night knowing that the Tactical Squad is still awesome.


----------



## Archon Dan

So, the re-loading one goes in the front of the squad right? So he's the first taken out because he's not paying attention. Good model of course.


----------



## Macas

Like the new Tactical Squad.


----------



## Entarion

Hm hm..no walking/kneeling legs again ? Okay.. I see slightly better right hands, they were making me crazy all the time. Some leg poses are nice, too. I like "new" tactical squad but from this point of view it is 50/50 I am not taking them. I'll wait for sprues. And it is easy to do reloading marine but the aiming one is good addition.

Sternguard looks gorgeous but I expect same static poses for all of them. Where Centurions/Vanguard/Sternguard are insta-buy I probably take IMHO the best marine models as extra veterans instead of new tactical box. Best box ever:


----------



## Bayonet

Some more sternguard.


----------



## Bayonet

And apparently the Combi-Weapon in the Tac Marine box is an assembled one, so one combi bolter bottom and a choice of 4 combi weapon tops you glue on.


----------



## Jacobite

I like the head and the sword arm on that sergeant, will have to pick them up from Bits and Kits at some point.


----------



## Entarion

Great models


----------



## bitsandkits

Jacobite said:


> I like the head and the sword arm on that sergeant, will have to pick them up from Bits and Kits at some point.


cool thanks, i have started putting together my order


----------



## Jacobite

I imagine they are going to be very very very popular, every Marine player will be after those SG and VV parts!


----------



## Entarion

Does sergeant use some kind of reinforced plasma pistol ?? It looks pretty cool except the scope


----------



## Jacobite

Looks similar to the style that the Chaos Marine Plasma Gun is, just a bit more plating round the barrel.


----------



## Waizer

Another new sternguard pic


----------



## OIIIIIIO

Waizer said:


> Another new sternguard pic


I saw him and in my head I heard Jay from Jay and Silent Bob strike back screaming "You are the ones who are the ball lickers!"


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

OIIIIIIO said:


> I saw him and in my head I heard Jay from Jay and Silent Bob strike back screaming "You are the ones who are the ball lickers!"


Congrats, OIIIIIIO, your post made me laugh so hard I woke my wife in the other room!


----------



## Waizer

OIIIIIIO said:


> I saw him and in my head I heard Jay from Jay and Silent Bob strike back screaming "You are the ones who are the ball lickers!"


omg I'm now going to hear that in my head everytime I see that mini on the tabletop


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Hahahaha awesome. Brother Jay it is then.


----------



## Entarion

Brother Jay is big-headed mother..badass :biggrin:


----------



## Zion

Nice find with those Sternguard pictures! I'll add them to the second post.

So it's time to answer that popular question: how to Marines wear the Centurion armor?

Here's a shot at the back of the legs, where you can see the Marine's power armored legs:









And here's a dev blurb on where the arms go:









EDIT: pictures updated.


----------



## arlins

just a quickie ( oh err ) popped into local GW and just bluntly asked about the release

Whilst the manager said he knew nothing of the new stuff ( he must have had some grit in his eye cos he was constantly winking to try to clear it ) he did say the store would be opening at midnight on the 30th ( fri) for a special marines evening .

so its looking likr the 31st 

( apologise if that's been confirmed anywhere else in the thread  )


----------



## Zion

arlins said:


> just a quickie ( oh err ) popped into local GW and just bluntly asked about the release
> 
> Whilst the manager said he knew nothing of the new stuff ( he must have had some grit in his eye cos he was constantly winking to try to clear it ) he did say the store would be opening at midnight on the 30th ( fri) for a special marines evening .
> 
> so its looking likr the 31st
> 
> ( apologise if that's been confirmed anywhere else in the thread  )


No it hasn't been mentioned but it sounds about right for the normal pre-order timeline.


----------



## Barnster

Are the new Sternguard plastic or Finecast?

If plastic I may pick up a few boxes, especially if there is a big variety of combi weapons.

The nicest pieces in the tact squad is the MKIV legs and the missile backpack. I just have far too many tacticals to consider picking them up


----------



## Zion

Barnster said:


> Are the new Sternguard plastic or Finecast?
> 
> If plastic I may pick up a few boxes, especially if there is a big variety of combi weapons.
> 
> The nicest pieces in the tact squad is the MKIV legs and the missile backpack. I just have far too many tacticals to consider picking them up


From what I've read they're plastic.


----------



## tu_shan82

Still waiting for the pics of the Heavy Flamer, come on Heavy Flamer pics.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

tu_shan82 said:


> Still waiting for the pics of the Heavy Flamer, come on Heavy Flamer pics.



While not in the Tactical Squad, here is a plastic Heavy Flamer. Taken from 4chan.


----------



## Zion

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> While not in the Tactical Squad, here is a plastic Heavy Flamer. Taken from 4chan.


Oooooh that's shiny.

EDIT: Tiny Black Templar Centurions! Looks like the Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amp. I guess the Amp is part of the package deal then?


----------



## Entarion

All those images are scanned, yes ? Why do we have only crop out models instead of full squad pictures? If I had new WD so early I take my time and do more proper pictures. Anyway still better than pics of Lizardmen at least.



Zion said:


> Oooooh that's shiny.
> 
> EDIT: Tiny Black Templar Centurions! Looks like the Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amp. I guess the Amp is part of the package deal then?


Guys please. Look at those sexy black templars centurions and tell me how you can't love them. 

PS. we have almost all pics I guess so next 3 weeks will be so boring before pre-orders show up on GW site :/


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> Oooooh that's shiny.
> 
> EDIT: Tiny Black Templar Centurions! Looks like the Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amp. I guess the Amp is part of the package deal then?


Amps supposedly allow for reroll failed wounds on Grav weapons. Supposedly. If that's true... Terminators will hate this gun. Rerollable 2+ to wound and AP2. 

I will have to get 2 of those Rhinos and convert them to look like Crucio Siege Tanks. 

Those Tacticals are sublime. Just the small fixes and additions they needed without overwhelming the original aesthetic. They need to make a box with MkV and MkIV armor. Some of those were in the Sternguard set. 



My buy list:
Centurions (1 box)
Tactical Squad (2 boxes)
Sternguard (1 box)
Librarian (1 pack)
New Rhino tank (2 boxes)

Hopefully Salamanders and Imperial Fists Chapter tactics are unique and well thought out.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Its funny. But in the Ultra Colours the centurions sucked. Then I saw them as Fists and they were a little better, Then Templars and even more better.

I guess Ultras just suck.


----------



## Entarion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Its funny. But in the Ultra Colours the centurions sucked. Then I saw them as Fists and they were a little better, Then Templars and even more better.
> 
> I guess Ultras just suck.


Templars always make everything more badass


----------



## Entarion

Anyway I did my work and here, all new sternguard


----------



## Arcticor

I've never understood helmetless space marines. So I certainly hope the new boxes come with 5 helmets...


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Yeah no helmet pisses me off. It's just retarded. 

There was an Iron warrior who made a point of shooting Imperial fists in the head who didn't have helmets on and even he remarked how stupid it was.


----------



## locustgate

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Its funny. But in the Ultra Colours the centurions sucked. Then I saw them as Fists and they were a little better, Then Templars and even more better.
> 
> I guess Ultras just suck.


I hated both of them.


Entarion said:


> Templars always make everything more badass


Yeah centurions are better with templars, they look less like giant walking babies and more like clunky dreadnaughts.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> Heretics.....we have Tactical Marines:


Lovely stuff! :so_happy:



Zion said:


> Sternguard with Combi-Melta:


Quite a big fan of this guy :grin:


And I want the sword arm from that Sergeant


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

The helmetless tradition is done by senior Space Marines as a sign of rank and courage, their skulls are still strong enough to repel a lot of projectile and melee attacks, but not nearly as much as a helmet. I prefer them with helmets in my opinion. The Sternguard look great, and the new Tactical Marines will fit in perfectly with any previous models.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Not in my Chapter it isn't. It's a sign of bravado an frowned upon.

Your head may be re-enforced but its not going to stop most of the weapons of 49k. Meltas, lascannons, auto cannons, bolters. The list goes on.

Its stupid lol.


----------



## Tawa

Did I hear mention of "reloading" arms? :yahoo:


----------



## Barnster

Lack of helmets just tries to humanise the space marines. Plus gives painters an excuse to paint a different colour!

Although I agree the lack of a helmet is silly in a live fiee area, look at what happened in starship troopers. It does look good if not overly done


----------



## Khorne's Fist

What weapon is the tactical sgt holding? Is it some sort of combi weapon?


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Most likely the new grav pistol, If not a combi-grav.


----------



## locustgate

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Most likely the new grav pistol, If not a combi-grav.


Grav pistol? New type of weapon....is it anti infantry or vehicle? It sounds like it would have a blast template.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

From the rumours it is ap 2 an you roll to wound on the targets armour value (eg marines on 3, guardsman on 5)

Not sure on vehicle effects yet.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

From the rumours it is ap 2 an you roll to wound on the targets armour value (eg marines on 3, guardsman on 5)

Not sure on vehicle effects yet.


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Most likely the new grav pistol, If not a combi-grav.





Khorne's Fist said:


> What weapon is the tactical sgt holding? Is it some sort of combi weapon?


Actually I think it looks like a plasma pistol with some kind of cover and a scope on it. The front end looks very plasma-weapon-eske.


----------



## locustgate

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> From the rumours it is ap 2 an you roll to wound on the targets armour value (eg marines on 3, guardsman on 5)
> 
> Not sure on vehicle effects yet.


So...It basically causes your armor to kill you...damn.....that seems kind of oped. or is it Right on the armor value i.e. only on 3 and 5.
All I got was a lousy ion accelerator.


----------



## Zion

Tidbits from 40k Radio:


> 40K Radio No bionic rules but Iron Hands have army wide 6+ FNP and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters .





> 40K Radio No new shooty HQ. MoF is still in the dex so he's your beat option. No way to make termies troops or scoring. I [guess] GW wanted to keep that a DA thing.





> 40K Radio The only one that deviates in this way is Kantor, he allows sternguard to score. Khan gives bike and dedicated transports in the WS detachment scout.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Anything for fists or salamanders?


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> Actually I think it looks like a plasma pistol with some kind of cover and a scope on it. The front end looks very plasma-weapon-eske.


It...looks like it is also missing the vents around the barrel, I'm kind of skeptical about it being a plasma pistol.


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

locustgate said:


> Grav pistol? New type of weapon....is it anti infantry or vehicle? It sounds like it would have a blast template.


Technically not "new", but reintroduced. The Graviton Gun dates back to Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition. In the old days it would automatically immobilize (completely. No moving or shooting) infantry models and had a bonus to armor penetration and damage on vehicles and structures. And it had a small blast template (1.5").

The idea was that it increased gravitric pressure on the target and used the same technology as that which powers skimmers.


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

locustgate said:


> Yeah centurions are better with templars, they look less like giant walking babies and more like clunky dreadnaughts.


I can't really see any improvement, but either way, it's like saying gingivitis is better than an abscess in your jaw. :grin:


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> Anything for fists or salamanders?


Nothing yet.



locustgate said:


> It...looks like it is also missing the vents around the barrel, I'm kind of skeptical about it being a plasma pistol.


If you look closely it has two vents on the side of the barrel, just below what I want to call the shroud.


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> If you look closely it has two vents on the side of the barrel, just below what I want to call the shroud.


Maybe it is....not really sure....but looking at the grav gun, lex, and the combi weapon of the captains on the 1st looks very much like a graviton gun. I also don't want plasma guns to look like THAT, captain 1st page.


----------



## Protoss119

Veteran Sergeant said:


> Technically not "new", but reintroduced. The Graviton Gun dates back to Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition. In the old days it would automatically immobilize (completely. No moving or shooting) infantry models and had a bonus to armor penetration and damage on vehicles and structures. And it had a small blast template (1.5").


Graviton weapons are still around. They've been seen in Space Marine service as recently as the Badab War (IA9, pg. 153) and Graviton cannons can be taken by Rapier Armored Carriers in _The Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal_. The Deathwatch possesses some as well (_Rites of Battle_, pg. 137-138). With that in mind, and knowing that the Graviton gun tests against a target's Strength rather than its armor save, alongside a host of other effects, the grav gun looks to be a completely new weapon.


----------



## Zion

Speaking of Grav Weapons, someone screen-shotted this from Facebook:


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

How does he have the book? Could this be part of the vital advertising Gee Dub is up to?


----------



## locustgate

Zion said:


> Stuff


Can you take inv saves?


----------



## Zion

locustgate said:


> Can you take inv saves?


As far as I've seen so far, yes. The only thing special it has going in is wounding rolls = armor save and AP2.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Still. Wounding on +2 and only getting a +5inv sucks If your a Terminator.


----------



## Arcticor

that'll be 2+ rerolling thanks to the grav amps


----------



## locustgate

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Still. Wounding on +2 and only getting a +5inv sucks If your a Terminator.


I hope they cost an ass ton of points.


----------



## Arcticor

locus, keep in mind they'll be near useless against tyranids and the like. it's an interesting concept because most weapons are the opposite of that.


----------



## Zion

Arcticor said:


> that'll be 2+ rerolling thanks to the grav amps


It looks like only the Centurions get the Grav Amp, but they're likely firing less shots to do it too.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Zion said:


> It looks like only the Centurions get the Grav Amp, but they're likely firing less shots to do it too.


Would be awesome if you could give a dread a grav cannon with an amp as an upgrade.

Centurions with 2 grav guns and one having an amp is still 5 shots (or 3, with 2 being re roll hit aswell)


----------



## Stella Cadente

"i have the book" yeah right, and I shit rainbows and piss pure gold out of my 2' cock


----------



## Waizer

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Yeah no helmet pisses me off. It's just retarded.
> 
> There was an Iron warrior who made a point of shooting Imperial fists in the head who didn't have helmets on and even he remarked how stupid it was.


Pretty sure in thousand sons its mentioned that the space wolves are wearing no helms and they get picked off because of that.

"Many charged into battle without helms, either casting them aside in their blood lust or too stupid to care about protecting their most vital organ. Phael Toron made them pay for that by picking his targets, blasting skulls from shoulders with every shot."

And theres the quote for you


----------



## Loli

As an Iron Hands I'm disappointed, if we keep the Master of the Forge as the go to Iron Hands character fine but he better be able to take upgrades akin to what the Techmarines in the DA codex can take. 

Regarding it will not die of Dreads, while I imagine it would be fun, the way I see this will encourage the use of Dreads which from all I've read isn't really Iron Hands like and if this is meant for Iron Hands seems a change. But still at least it's something I guess. 

Regarding Grav weapons, I like the idea of them being better on the more elite units with good armour. Keeps my DE and Nids safe but Termies and such will hate it, am I right in thinking this will be nasty for Grey Knights?


----------



## Waizer

I think personally with the new grav guns btw there will be alot of variation of lists because of them. Offensively to face an all comers list you may need a few grav guns for easy killing of 2+ and 3+ troops, but then to make sure you don't lose out to low save models (orks ect) you will be forced to balance out the list with things like flamers.

It also opens other options, defensively. You may be a space marine army but to make sure you don't get beaten by a very heavy grav gun based army you might want to take some imperial guard or take more scouts than usual.

Quite looking forward to this codex


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Kind of another way of pushing armies into shooting more before it used to be power weapons that dealt with 2+ saves but now it's just shooting unless you want your own head cut off with a slow melee weapon.


----------



## locustgate

Waizer said:


> It also opens other options, defensively. You may be a space marine army but to make sure you don't get beaten by a very heavy grav gun based army you might want to take some imperial guard or take more scouts


Or go with my time tested tactic...mark and snipe or in the case of vehicles mark and missile, for Tau players only, haven't tested mark and ion accelerator yet. I'm hoping that the grav guns' range is small.


----------



## Zion

Stella Cadente said:


> "i have the book" yeah right, and I shit rainbows and piss pure gold out of my 2' cock


That has to _burn_ when you pee.

There is a reason I list the rules stuff as rumors, not fact. The only things I've confirmed to date in my merry little list are things we have pictures of.

What's more likely is they got a WD somehow, or got pictures of one because all of the things they said were coming model wise (except pictures of a command squad with a razorback and a chaplain) have come true.

But I'm not holding my breath. :grin:



Words_of_Truth said:


> Kind of another way of pushing armies into shooting more before it used to be power weapons that dealt with 2+ saves but now it's just shooting unless you want your own head cut off with a slow melee weapon.


Gunline style players will always play gunline armies no matter what. People who want models to get in there and punch models in the face will still play that way.

I highly doubt the volume of fire for these grav weapons will be high enough to properly nuke squads, outside of the Centurions, and even then you trade doing well against one kind of unit (heavy infantry) to do poorly against another (anyone who wears a t-shirt as armor).


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I tend to have balanced armies, so I have some firing and some combat. My heresy army is going to have a lot of flamers and melta weapons though so will probably need a lot of melee to.


----------



## ntaw

I _just _took in that this guy has a sheathed power sword on his hip.










I have wanted to have sheathed power swords on my Sanguinary Priests for so long. I've tried puttying up spare swords to make it look that way...and I'm not quite good at it. So far, the new Vanguard for its plastic LCs and TH/SS options combined with the plastic Sternguard is killing it for me. With the exception of the reloading bolter arms (which I'm kind of underwhelmed by in the picture, but I'll reserve that final judgement until I get to play with them a bit), the Grav weapons and the slightly altered ML backpack, what is even different about the Tactical squad box? I doubt we'll see the other battleforces repackaged since those armies do not have codex access to those weapons. I'm looking at you, SW and BA.


----------



## Loli

ntaw said:


> I _just _took in that this guy has a sheathed power sword on his hip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That model is starting to grow on me, the sheaved sword is nice. But I like the helmet not the paint scheme but now matter how many times I look and tell myself otherwise it just looks like he has a Monocle! I'm sorry but a space marine will a monocle what's not to like.!


----------



## Zion

Faeit did a nice roll up of 40k Radio's Facebook postings:



> Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
> 
> Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
> 
> Kantor is in.
> 
> Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.
> 
> Lysander is still in there and he is still bad ass but he is 30pts more.
> 
> No new shooty HQ. MoF is still in the dex so he's your beat option. No way to make termies troops or scoring.
> 
> The only one that deviates in this way is Kantor, he allows sternguard to score. Khan gives bike and dedicated transports in the WS detachment scout.
> 
> No bionic rules but Iron Hands have army wide 6+ FNP and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters .
> 
> Centurion "devastator" come with Twin-Linked Heavy bolter and hurricane bolter for 60 pts. You can have up to 6 in a squad.
> 
> Legion of the Damned have flaming projectiles. All ranged attacks have ignore cover special rule.
> 
> Black templars are in the book. They can not take some selections but have access to Centurions, Thunderfires, and so on. They have special rules for Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Chapter Tactics for the following chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.
> 
> Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.
> 
> Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne bolters.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> (Centurions) Two plus save no invul. Toughness and strength of five.
> 
> Also you can not deep strike the centurions.
> 
> Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
> 
> Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
> 
> Kantor is in.
> 
> Legion of the Damned are 25 points a model.
> 
> No Vows (Black Tenplars), just chapter tactics.
> 
> Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.


And let the crying begin in 3....2....1....


----------



## Words_of_Truth

You repeated the last 6 lines


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> Faeit did a nice roll up of 40k Radio's Facebook postings: Centurions


And people were already bitching about the Centurions being more powerful than Obliterators... lol. 

They have no invuln, no Deep Strike, they have to upgrade to get better weapons, no mentioning of multiple wounds, and do not have access to other weapons like Flamers, Plasma Weapons, or Assault Cannons. 

People amaze me. 

If Lysander keeps Bolter Drill I could see some funny shenanigans with base Centurions and Lysander soaking wounds.


----------



## Arcticor

the centurions weapons are already twin linked so lysander wouldn't do anything. I certainly hope (just like everyone) that they aren't single wound....


----------



## ntaw

Zion said:


> And let the crying begin in 3....2....1....


Zion, you make me laugh.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Arcticor said:


> the *centurions weapons are already twin linked* so lysander wouldn't do anything. I certainly hope (just like everyone) that they aren't single wound....


Where was that confirmed?


----------



## Arcticor

Zion said:


> Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> You repeated the last 6 lines


No I didn't. This is a straight copy/paste from Faeit, and honestly these things could have been posted there multiple times.



ntaw said:


> Zion, you make me laugh.


I try. 

More from 40k Radio:


> 40K Radio The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.
> 
> 40K Radio Tactical Marines are fourteen points each.
> 
> 40K Radio Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.


Even MORE from 40k Radio:


> IF  get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.
> 
> Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

> *Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
> 
> Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
> 
> Kantor is in.*
> 
> Legion of the Damned are 25 points a model.
> 
> No Vows (Black Tenplars), just chapter tactics.
> 
> *Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.*


4 of those are exactly the same as the first 4 lines. That's all I was pointing out, wasn't trying to insult you.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> No I didn't. This is a straight copy/paste from Faeit, and honestly these things could have been posted there multiple times.
> 
> 
> 
> I try.
> 
> More from 40k Radio:


Wooh Raven Guard with Stealth. That's pretty nice. 3+ cover in ruins with Tacticals and Devastators? Womp, womp. 



Arcticor said:


> Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.


Ahh. Very good.


----------



## Zion

Words_of_Truth said:


> 4 of those are exactly the same as the first 4 lines. That's all I was pointing out, wasn't trying to insult you.


I'm not upset, just pointing out that I didn't type the list. 

So more from 40k Radio, this time on our two anti-air tanks:



> both weapons are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.


And about Templars:


> Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.


And an answer about homebrew/unknown lineage chapters:


> If you're an unknow founding or a home brew chapter you can pick what Chapter Tactics you want.


And about Crusader Squads:


> The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.


EDIT: A QnA from 40K Radio:


> Q: Any new wargear (along the lines of auspex from DA codex)?
> A: There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.
> 
> Q: How high is the rate of fire for the other AA tank?
> A: Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.
> 
> Q: Can you please confirm whether or not pure bike armies are no longer legal to field?
> A: No you can not. You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.
> 
> Q: Are storm ravens/storm talons in the book. or are we required to use "Death from the Skies"?
> A: Yes they are in the book and you do not need Death from the Skies.
> 
> Q: Do UM retain their "fall-back from combat and may act normally" ability? Thanks in advance!
> A: No that rule does not exist anymore. Like all the chapters their Chapter Tactics are set.


EDIT 2: In response to being asked about Vows and what the Emperor's Champion does now:


> The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders"


----------



## Entarion

I cry only about Vanguards moved to elites slot. Always wanted to make army based on veterans like 10x sternguard, 10x vanguard and 5x terminator. Rly makes me sad.


----------



## Waizer

Sallies get to reroll wounds and armour pen with flame weapons, does this mean they now no longer get bonuses with melta's & multimeltas? (unless its a char holding the melta and he master crafts it ofc)


----------



## locustgate

Loli said:


> That model is starting to grow on me, the sheaved sword is nice. But I like the helmet not the paint scheme but now matter how many times I look and tell myself otherwise it just looks like he has a Monocle! I'm sorry but a space marine will a monocle what's not to like.!


He kind of reminds me of the space marine version of the monopoly guy.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Well, with all of this, that just leaves the Chaplain & Command Squad w/ Razorback and the Strike Force.


----------



## Zion

Just when you thought the rumors stopped....they didn't. Here's more from 40k Radio:



> Q: Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?
> A: Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.
> 
> Q: Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?
> A: No, Only bikes.
> 
> Q: Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.
> A: Those do not exist. That was wish listing.
> 
> Q: Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?
> A: Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.
> 
> Q: Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.
> A: No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.
> 
> Q: Did sternguard special ammo change at all?
> A: Remained the same, SG went down to 22 points
> 
> Q: Are there any other scoring units besides sternguard, tac, and scouts?
> A: Only Tac and scouts. SG if you take Kantor and 5 man bike squad if you take a Captain on a bike.
> 
> Q: Any changes at all to the Black Sword or is the EC just some sort of challenge monkey now? I wonder what "for his points will be a good character hunter" could mean.
> A: EC has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.
> 
> Q: Thank you so much, a final question, the BT situation sounds like we were better off with a 4th ed codex, do the special characters give anything special? What does Helbrecht and Grimaldus look like and do for the army?
> A: No they do not add anything. They've been basically upgraded to 6th ed. For a BT will be happy with all the options they will have.
> 
> Q: Just out of curiosity, does Accept any challenge give them rending in Challenges, or allows them to reroll rending throws?
> A: They have rending.
> 
> Q: Is there any way for Templars to have access to CC boosting USRs via characters?
> A: Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)
> 
> Q: Any idea if the Champion is still BT-only or they opened it up for other chapters that have them in the fluff (IF and CF for example)?
> A: EC are only for BT armies.
> 
> Q: Is that 3-5 man bike squad as troops, or 5-10 man bike squads to count as troops? Also, is the attack bike still an upgrade to a bike squad, as well as a separate choice?
> A: Its a 3-5 man. You can upgrade one to an attack bike.
> 
> Q: how big can a crusader squad be?
> A: Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.
> 
> Q: what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
> A: Grimaldus gives Zaelot
> 
> Q: what units are restricted to Templars?
> A: Only librarians
> 
> Q: how do Castellans work?
> A: You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.
> 
> Q: Does the Emperor's Champion's sword still have the +2 to strength in addition to being AP2?
> A: Yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.
> 
> Q: And does the 4++ invulnerability now work outside of close combat, too?
> A: Yes he is always 2+/4+.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Waizer said:


> Sallies get to reroll wounds and armour pen with flame weapons, does this mean they now no longer get bonuses with melta's & multimeltas? (unless its a char holding the melta and he master crafts it ofc)


Via 40k Radio

Salamanders get to reroll wounds and failed penetrating/glancing hits with flame weapons. Characters can Mastercraft a single weapon for free. Vulkan still gives the Melta TL. 



On another note:

Imperial Fists get Bolter Drill. Reroll 1s on Bolters to hit, but does not work on Sternguard Ammo. In addition, they also have Tank Hunters on Devastators and Centurion Devastators with a bonus of +1 to buildings. 


Gotta say, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Ultramarines look mighty appealing due to their Chapter Tactics.


----------



## Waizer

Ultramarines actually seem like they got some nice rules there.
rerolling to hit in shooting for tactica squads and rerolling all 1's elsewhere is pretty sweet.
rerolling charges and giving fleet to bikes/assault marines also not too bad.
the devastator one seems quite nice too, rerolling snap fire and overwatch shots and making devastators relentless.

Kinda stuck for which chapter I want to go with now


----------



## Zion

Looks like this will be the last batch for a little bit, the rumors have stopped flowing for the time being:



> Q: can castellans/marshals take command squads
> A: Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.
> 
> Q: can Helbrecht take an honor guard
> A: Yes because he is a Chapter Master
> 
> Q: what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
> A: Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.
> 
> Q: which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
> A: Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.
> 
> Q: did the costs of dedicated transports change?
> A: Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.
> 
> Q: also, do you mind sharing any changes to devestator costs or the potential load-outs for tac squads?
> A: Devs went down. Close to Dark Angel book.
> 
> Q: any way to get 2 special weapons?
> A: No way to get 2 specials.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Nah, it's still trickling in. He just answered a few questions on Grav weapons. They have concussive in addition to be solid shots. No blasts on the Grav gun itself I guess. Maybe the bigger one will have more shots or be blast.


----------



## Zion

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> Nah, it's still trickling in. He just answered a few questions on Grav weapons. They have concussive in addition to be solid shots. No blasts on the Grav gun itself I guess. Maybe the bigger one will have more shots or be blast.


I was referring to more that there was break in the rumors. I'll keep doing roll-ups of the questions.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> I was referring to more that there was break in the rumors. I'll keep doing roll-ups of the questions.


My mistake, carry on!


----------



## Tawa

LS-Storms as dedicated transports. Me likey! :so_happy:


----------



## Jacobite

Makes a lot more sense than having them as FA choice that's for sure!


----------



## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> Makes a lot more sense than having them as FA choice that's for sure!


Upon first glancing at that when the 'dex came out, I couldn't help but Derp......


----------



## Zion

Here's more!



> Q: Are grav weapons solid shots or blast? Do they have any other special rules ex: haywire?
> A: Solid shot and they have concussive
> 
> Q: Any improvements to dreads?
> A: Dreads are basically the same.
> 
> Q: Are the whole range of Ultramarines Special Characters still in there?
> Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Chronus, Telion, and Sicarius?
> What do they do nowadays?
> A: Yes all Ultra characters are in and are Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.
> 
> Q: If BT indeed use regular SM Chaplain entry, do the chaplains have two or three wounds, and two or three base attacks?
> A: W2 A2
> 
> Q: Does Lysander give any special rules?
> A: No. He went up in points but he is still gnarly.
> 
> Q: Can Sternguard become Troops?
> A: No they can not. Kantor allows them to be scoring.
> 
> Q: Does Lysander still have Eternal Warrior?
> A: Yes, he still has EW.
> 
> Q: You covered BT, UM, Ravenguard, Fists, Salamanders, and Iron Hands. Is that all of the chapters? Or are there more special chapter rules for other chapters?
> A: If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.
> 
> Q: So to confirm, you can't take an all bike army?
> A: Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.
> 
> Q: Any change to Honor Guard?
> A: They went down in points. That is their big change.
> 
> Q: Is there any way to get an extra attack on tacticals? Such as a combat blade?
> A: There is no way to do that.
> 
> Q: Did Vindicators change in price or function?
> A: Right about same points. No big change, basically the same.
> 
> Remember that CF with use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Vanguard Veterans are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.
> 
> Q: Can we just get the whole Centurion statline out of the way once and for all?
> A: WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+
> 
> Q: Any changes to Shrike or Kor'sarro?
> A: Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
> Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
> 
> Q: For salamanders. Do flame weapons include melta and flamestom cannon. Also what does vulkan do for the army?
> A: Only for flame weapons covered on page 56 of the Rulebook. Meltas get twin-linked if you take Vulkan.
> 
> Q: For BT Chapter tactics, is the reroll and rending only in a challenge? Or is it reroll all the time and rending in challenge?
> A: Yes that is only in a challenge. When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.
> 
> Q: How many attacks do the Centurians have?
> A: 1A and Sgt 2A. The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version...
> 
> Q: Would you happen to know if the capacity on the land raider is still 12?
> A: LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12
> 
> Q: Are there terminator command squads?
> A: No Termie command squads.
> 
> Q: What buffs does Lysander have other than EW?
> A: Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.
> 
> Q: So only characters benefit from the BT chapter tactic?
> A: Yes for challenges. Your army also gets Crusader USR and Adamantium Will USR.
> 
> Q: What does Grimauldus specifically give? You mentioned Zealot, is that army wide?
> A: No army wide rule. Zealot USR works for him and the unit he is in. If a units is within 6" of the servitors they get a 6+ invul.
> 
> Q: Any special characters for Iron Hands?
> A: No Iron Hands Characters.
> 
> Q: Any changes to the Master of the Forge?
> A: Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Q: Is it possible to give the MoF invl save now? < big iron hands player wanna run a themed force with ironfather HQ but i think ill need the invl for CC
> A: Looks like 6+ FNP will be the best you can get unless you take a Chapter Relic, which gives a 6+ invul.
> 
> Q: Is that +1 to the blessing for IHs a specific rule of the MoF or part of the IH traits that applied to all techmarines?
> A: +1 is only for IH Chapter Tactics
> 
> Q: And does bolter drill still work on all bolt weapons (minus the sternguards) or just rifles/combirifles?
> A: All Bloters on page 56 of Rulebook and combi-wepon bolters. You can not use it on the special ammo that the sternguard use.


And yes, there HAVE been a lot of Black Templar questions. I'm just going to leave it at that.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> Here's more!
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, there HAVE been a lot of Black Templar questions. I'm just going to leave it at that.


Almost too many. It got to the point where it was the entire discussion. No offense to Black Templars, but take it down a notch. There are plenty of options to be had.


----------



## Zion

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> Almost too many. It got to the point where it was the entire discussion. No offense to Black Templars, but take it down a notch. There are plenty of options to be had.


Honestly it bothers me the most when someone asks more than 1-2 questions at a time. And there are a lot of repeating questions because people haven't gone back to read old ones first.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> Almost too many. It got to the point where it was the entire discussion. No offense to Black Templars, but take it down a notch. There are plenty of options to be had.


Ditto.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> Honestly it bothers me the most when someone asks more than 1-2 questions at a time. And there are a lot of repeating questions because people haven't gone back to read old ones first.


Yeah, I accidentally asked a question that had been answered about the Hunter and the Stalker. So that was my fault. 

I agree though, a lot of repeated questions about some of the most mundane things. Like Chaplains functions in BT groups?

Why not ask something about the CC Centurions or the new AA tanks AV and other things? 

Ultramarines have a pretty powerful set of Chapter Tactics. Tactical being brutal.


----------



## Zion

From Blue Table Painting:



> Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.
> 
> Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne bolters.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+


----------



## Zion

40k Radio rollup:



> Q: What are the White Scars Chapter Traits?
> A: +1 to jink save, Auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run except for termies and both sets of Centurions.
> 
> Q: What does Khan do?
> A: He gives Bikes and Transports the Scout USR
> 
> Q: What are the options for the Crusader Squads?
> A: Crusader squads are basically the same as last BT. You get the option of a Sword Brother upgrade(Vet sgt). So you could put 2 power weapons in one squad. There can still be up to 20 models in one unit.
> 
> Q: Has Marneus Calgar changed at all?
> A: Calgar gets three warlord traits, his armor does not prevent him from preforming a sweeping advance, and he went up in points. He's a supreme badass but you pay for it.
> 
> Q: Are those big fists on the shooty Centurions powerfists? What about the assault version- do they strike at initiative because they have Ironclad assault launchers?
> A: Centurion Devs do not have PF. The Assult Centurions do strike at initiative, the drills are not unwieldy.
> 
> Q: Are black templar's still prohibited from allying with non-grey knight psykers? (Sanctified Psykers, Inquisitors with Psionics, etc)
> A: BT are still Ally of Convenience. You will still follow the rule book.
> 
> Q: And does the Emperor's champion take up a force organization slot?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: What chief librarian tigurius? Is going to give other pysker's a run for their money?
> A: I think Tigurius is easily the most improved SC. He will be very tempting for Ultramarine players and he comes in relatively cheap. Overall A+ over last edition.
> 
> Q: Can the Emperor's Champion be taken as the Warlord?
> A: Yes because he is taken as a HQ choice.
> 
> Q: Is Calgar above 300 points?
> A: Calgar is 275
> 
> Q: Have TH/SS termies gone up in price?
> A: TH/SS Terminators cost +5 points
> 
> Q: What're the rules for the Assault Centurion's drills?
> A: S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, armorbane, strikes at initiative
> 
> Q: What is Grimaldus' stat line like? Any variations from a standard chaplain? And does he have anything like Eternal warrior or IWND?
> A: He has "It will not Die", no EW.
> 
> Q: Any special BT items or upgrades?
> A: Nothing special for Black Templars, you just get the full access to the codex. So you get Vanguard, Sternguard, Centurion and so on. You have the ability to put multiple power weapons in crusader squads. One is a non-character which can not be challenged. You get to hide a power weapon.
> 
> Q: Is there any limitations to the EC? Can anybody take one?
> A: EC can only be taken by BT and they're a HQ choice.


----------



## Jacobite

Those drills sound bloody horrible, a PF without striking last. Hope they cost a bit to balance that out otherwise shooty terminators just got curbstomped.


----------



## Zion

Jacobite said:


> Those drills sound bloody horrible, a PF without striking last. Hope they cost a bit to balance that out otherwise shooty terminators just got curbstomped.


Actually they're basically S9 CHAINFISTS that go at I4. That's 2 attacks for the regular guys (3 on the charge) and the Sarge gets 4 on the charge.

But they're SnP, so there is a trade off!

I am collecting more questions but I like to put them together into nice chunks before I post them.


----------



## Zion

More from 40k Radio:



> Q: Is a "Castellan" a BT sgt in a vet squad?
> A: Castellans are gone. Vet Sgts are Sword Brothers.
> 
> Q: Mind a rundown of the 6 Chapter Relics?
> A: he relics consist of two swords, one bolter, set of armor, one storm shield and one banner.
> 
> Q: Are there Space Marine Warlord Traits?
> A: Yes, one chart for all armies.
> 
> Q: Does Imperial Fist Bolter drill give rerolls to hit and to wound of 1? Or just to hit?
> A: To hit rolls of 1's.
> 
> Q: Is Telion cheaper/different?
> A: Telion is the same points and all updated with sniper rules for 6th
> 
> Q: Same with Chronus? Is he worth considering now?
> A: Chronus is cheaper but still not worth it. Just increases the BS by 1
> 
> Q: Is the basic Chapter Master differentiated from a Captain with more than orbital bombardment?
> A: CM has A4 and W4 and access to honor guard as command squad.
> 
> Q: Does the command squad of a master have better/different options than a captain?
> A: It's Honor Guard.
> 
> Q: Is the Storm Raven more expensive in these new rules? Different in any other ways?
> A: Storm Raven stayed 200 points.
> 
> Q: What sort of special tricks does Tigirius bring to the list?
> A: Tight is ML 3, knows all disciplines, he can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers, he can re-roll reserves(even successful ones), HoH is a psychic hood and he can re-roll failed psychic test.
> 
> Q: are drop pods still 12 to a pod?
> A: Dop pod is back to 10.
> 
> Q: Landraider redeemer the same?
> A: LRR is 12
> 
> Q: How is Heroic Intervention different?
> A: They do not get the penalty for disordered charge and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.
> 
> Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
> A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.
> 
> Q: Do the Vanguard Veterans still get to assault the turn they deep strike jump packs then?
> A: No. That rule is gone.
> 
> Q: How many wounds and attacks does Grimaldus have?
> A: Grim is W3/A3
> 
> Q: And are Reclusiarchs in the codex?
> A: Reclusiarchs are gone. There is one Chaplain to chose from.
> 
> Q: For those with non first founding chapter & BT, is there a system of making your own chapter tactics(like the chapter traits from the 4th edition codex)?
> A: No. You will have to chose out of the Chapter Tactics provide.
> 
> Q: Did the predator tanks and devestators have their prices modified in the codex?
> A: They both got point decreases.
> 
> Q: Is the old Power Armored Marneus Calgar mini nonexistent?
> A: He's in Artificer armor. For 10 points more he gets Termie armor.
> 
> Q: Are there any new Ultramarine Characters?
> A: No new characters.


----------



## ntaw

My jealousy of SM drop pods is laid to rest...potentially?


----------



## Zion

Last post by me for the night. I put last one in because frankly it needs to be said as a reminder.



> Q: Does Orbital Bombardment still exist?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Is Calgar's Termie Armor the same? Built in Teleport Homer, or does it do anything special?
> A: Same, but let's you sweeping advance in Terminator Armor and still has homer.
> 
> Q: There are so many BT on because we are getting screwed by GW who is basically trying to make us in to a lame variant of a codex chapter, something we are definitely not. The more I read, the less I want to continue playing 40K.
> A: I think the BT are better. You have more options than you know what to do with and most if not all of your troops are cheaper. It's not that bad.


----------



## redmapa

> Q: There are so many BT on because we are getting screwed by GW who is basically trying to make us in to a lame variant of a codex chapter, something we are definitely not. The more I read, the less I want to continue playing 40K.
> A: I think the BT are better. You have more options than you know what to do with and most if not all of your troops are cheaper. It's not that bad.


I have yet to see a BT player that doesnt see the loss of vows and special rules in exchange for chapter tactics that are useless in CC as something else then a nerf

I hope the codex is better then what the rumors make it to be


----------



## Entarion

As a fan of LS Storm..does it change anything that it is transport for scouts now ? I mean price for whole unit remains same ??


----------



## Loli

redmapa said:


> I have yet to see a BT player that doesnt see the loss of vows and special rules in exchange for chapter tactics that are useless in CC as something else then a nerf
> 
> I hope the codex is better then what the rumors make it to be


But they are rolled into a codex that gets updated every edition, have access to everything in save for Librarians, still get there characters and such. Really Black Templars just want to have there cake and it eat. 


I'm disappointed that the MotF is staying the same but maybe with IWND die he will be slightly decent. 

I don't know about the assault centurions just seem meh. 

Still liking theatre new tanks even if thwy don't get me interceptor.


----------



## humakt

I think people are jumping the gun with BT here. GW needed to do something about the number of codexes. There were just too many Power armour dexes out there. So a switch to include BT in the main marine codex is a good option. Remember they were only a supplement when they first arrived so switching back into the main dex makes sense.

I think you will still be able to field a characterful bunch of fanatics the same as when Codex Armageddon came out.

Looking at all the rumours so far I am far more encouraged they have given something to Marines since the 4th edition 'dex. People can now choose Ultras/vanilla marines and not just get a plain dish of power armour and bolters. Not sure about salamanders yet. I have those as a succesor chapter for my main marine army, but I am not so melta heavy I need to stick to them if I want to switch back to an IF based chapter.

Thanks for the good work coalating all the rumours Zion.


----------



## Waizer

Tbh I don't get what all the fuss is about with the BT players. Yes you may lose vows but you get updated more than ever, have access to all the newest gear and units now.

If I'm honest I have no clue which chapter I'd like to go for now. I was 99% going to be a sallie but seeing the ultramarine chapter tactics and seeing alot of info on the BT's I'm more and more torn between those 2 chapters. Decisions decisions


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Waizer said:


> Tbh I don't get what all the fuss is about with the BT players. Yes you may lose vows but you get updated more than ever, have access to all the newest gear and units now.
> 
> If I'm honest I have no clue which chapter I'd like to go for now. I was 99% going to be a sallie but seeing the ultramarine chapter tactics and seeing alot of info on the BT's I'm more and more torn between those 2 chapters. Decisions decisions


Yeah jury is out for me. I'm doing a new chapter for the Codex so I will wait to see what fits my playstyle/fluff.


----------



## arlins

always had a ultra successor ( not blue lol ) and stuck with them , and TBH im liking the price decreases and chapter tactics so IF, when the books in hand it all pans out as the rumours have stated ill be a very cheery lil marine


----------



## Tawa

I can see a re-tooling in the not to distant future of my SM's


----------



## The Irish Commissar

Liking the chapter tactics rules for ultra marines. I can finally say I'm proud to be ultra marines. ( shit did I just say that .)


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> I can see a re-tooling in the not to distant future of my SM's


Same here. I'm actually waiting for the book to issue so I'll know if the 18 bikes, 3 Attack Bikes, and 5 Landspeeders I have will end up black and with my Ravenwing -OR- white and as a White Scars army.


----------



## Tawa

The Irish Commissar said:


> Liking the chapter tactics rules for ultra marines. I can finally say I'm proud to be ultra marines. ( shit did I just say that .)


Yes you did. Shame upon you :wink:



Jace of Ultramar said:


> Same here. I'm actually waiting for the book to issue so I'll know if the 18 bikes, 3 Attack Bikes, and 5 Landspeeders I have will end up black and with my Ravenwing -OR- white and as a White Scars army.


Here's hoping for a good result 
I've got one speeder at the minute, but another two lined up for construction at some point :so_happy:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Tawa said:


> Here's hoping for a good result
> I've got one speeder at the minute, but another two lined up for construction at some point :so_happy:


I'm curious to see if the Landspeeder Squadron grows in size the same as the Ravenwing. Plus, I'm not too keen on the thought of a Biker Captain unlocking only one bike squad for troops.


----------



## Tawa

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I'm curious to see if the Landspeeder Squadron grows in size the same as the Ravenwing.


Why, how big are the RW squadrons?



Jace of Ultramar said:


> Plus, I'm not too keen on the thought of a Biker Captain unlocking only one bike squad for troops.


Yeah, that's a bit gash to be fair.

"Hey, fancy coming to war with me, Fellow-Captain?"
"Take your all your bikes, Fellow-Captain."
"Alas, Rowboats Big Book of Space Marines say's I cannot."


----------



## Mokuren

So glad to hear that Centurions are T5 W2. The early rumours put them at T6, W3, 2+/4++ at but 20 points more than an unmarked Obliterator, if that turned out to be true I'd have thrown a fit.

All in all sounds decent, I am so glad they're also trying to reduce the amount of Space Marine 'dexes, if they're going for the supplement bloat like in 3rd I'd be okay if there was just one big Space Marine codex and supplements for other chapters.

I mean aside from special characters and variants what else was ever there? Maybe _one_ new model per chapter? _Two_? That's a bit too little to warrant an _entirely different codex_.


----------



## Zion

Here's what I missed while I was asleep:



> Another BT player raising his complaints....
> Q: More options but if CC crusaders are not getting any bonus in CC then BT are WORSE in CC then with the 4th ed book and because termies will get 1 less heavy weapon in a squad of 5 BT Gunline will have less missiles
> A: Those things had gone they way of the dodo bird a half a decade ago. Even if they got their own dex there ways no way that you were still going to get two heavy weapons in five termies and other outdated rules.
> 
> Squads are just as good as there 4th codex iteration. They're cheaper, they come with frag/krak grenades, up to two power weapons, 2 flyer types, and the list goes on. There are far more pluses than minuses.
> 
> If you were banking on rules that are old and outdated then you will be disappointed. If you look at all the options then you will be excited about the possibility and the flexibility that the new dex offers.
> 
> Back to the Q&A:
> 
> Q: Ironclads the same?
> A: Ironclads are the same.
> 
> Q: About Honor Guard, have they gotten cheaper? Has the chapter champion got more bad ass or is he still...meh?
> A: Honorguard are cheaper and the company champion is the same, at least he's cheaper.
> 
> Q: landspeeders the same? Or similar to the dark angels cost wise? Doubt they get 1-5 too.
> A: Speeders are 1-3
> 
> Q: What about Cassius and Sicarius?
> A: 1)Sicarius is 15 points cheaper and basically the same.2)Cassius is 5 points more.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Any word on the super dread that was hinted at previously?


----------



## ntaw

Khorne's Fist said:


> Any word on the super dread that was hinted at previously?


I think that boiled down to the Centurions. Not sure though.


----------



## Ddraig Cymry

Damn, I think I might need to start Black Templars next haha


----------



## Zion

Khorne's Fist said:


> Any word on the super dread that was hinted at previously?


It doesn't exist. Someone screwed up somewhere and either confused a FW model for a new unit or they confused the plus sized master for the model. Either way it's non-existant.

More from 40k Radio:



> Q: Any change regarding the Whirlwind?
> A: Nope. Missiles do the same and its 65 points.
> 
> Q: Does IF bolter drill only apply to boltguns/bolt pistols (minus special ammo) or does it apply to hvy and hurricane bolters as well?
> A: It works on every bolter on page 56 of the rule book. Hurricane bolters already get a re-roll and you can't re-roll a re-roll.
> 
> Q: Can you give the full breakdown of grav-weapons? S value? how do they work v. vehicles? difference between grav gun and grav cannon?
> A: Grav weapons wound the target based on their armor save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is immobilized and loses a HP.
> 
> Q: Did the Codex Powers change?
> A: They use the psychic powers out of the rule book, so null zone and the other powers are gone.
> 
> Q: What are te ranges on the new Grav Guns? Are they rapid fire?
> A: Pistol: Range 12", Gun: 18" salvo 2/3, and Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5
> 
> Q: Did the dreadnoughts gain any rules (like the rumored Inspiring Presence)?
> A: No, I think that's more wish listing.
> 
> Q: Do the Devs get Flakk Missles?
> A: Yes. They have to pay and additional 10 points.
> 
> Q: Can Honor Guard get and invunerable now (storm shields)?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Is there some caveat to the first half of the UM tactical rule (like..i don't know,does not work on heavy weapons for example...) or is it just a plain better version of the IF one even without the extra bonus for tactical squads?
> A: It will work on any weapon that rolls a 1, while the IF only works on bolter type weapons.
> 
> Q: How many points are the Scout Bikes?
> A: 18 points
> 
> Q: Did they change the Cereberus launcher on the LS storm? used to be -2 leadership to enemies assaulted after disembarking.
> A: It's not the same. It's range 18" S 2 large blast Blind.
> 
> Q: Do BT get Land Raider Redeemers as Dedicated, or only Land Raider Crusaders?
> A: Just LRC.
> 
> Q: Out of intrest, is there anything in the book that stops BT from allying with a psyker? (I know they cant take one)
> A: Im not seeing anything that will stop you from allying.
> 
> Q: Any change to the Sternguard ammo types?
> A: Same as before
> 
> Q: Who can take the Grav Weapons?
> A: Basically anyone who can take special weapons or pistol upgrades. They heavy one is only on the Dev Centurions.
> 
> Q: How much cheaper are Honor Guard exactly?
> A: They dropped 25 points.


----------



## Loli

25pt cheaper honor guard? Seems nice.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Loli said:


> 25pt cheaper honor guard? Seems nice.


Seems workable, IMHO.


----------



## redmapa

I hope there's something missing for BT Crusader Squads or some kind of special rule to help in CC otherwise there will be nothing to help in an assault

I was really hoping to stop playing gunline BT but I dont think it'll happen : /


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

redmapa said:


> I hope there's something missing for BT Crusader Squads or some kind of special rule to help in CC otherwise there will be nothing to help in an assault
> 
> I was really hoping to stop playing gunline BT but I dont think it'll happen : /


The Crusader USR will make sure you can run up on them. You have to remember that you will get all of the options within Codex: Space Marines too. This can get them in faster, or you can purchase units to tie them up. Such as Vanguard "Sword Bretheren" units, Drop pod Dreadnoughts with Heavy Flamers, Sword Bretheren Terminators, and Assault Centurions in a Storm Raven. Those seem pretty fluffy to me. 

Now if you wanted the old Righteous Zeal rule where you would move forward after taking casualties, I doubt that is going to happen or make it back in.


----------



## Zion

More from 40k Radio:



> Q: Does the Signum still work the same?
> A: Yes it give one member BS5
> 
> Q: So they actually gave the straight better rule to ultramarines (at least with other chapters they have different rules...Here it's just...better)...That makes me kind of sad.
> A: Not really you have to invest a lot points into Tac squads and there essentially picking your army for you.
> 
> Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
> A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75
> 
> Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
> A: No.


40k Radio are going to Gencon, so the Q&As are likely going to stop for a while in the near future. Once they do I'll post up the full roll up.


----------



## redmapa

> The Crusader USR will make sure you can run up on them. You have to remember that you will get all of the options within Codex: Space Marines too. This can get them in faster, or you can purchase units to tie them up. Such as Vanguard "Sword Bretheren" units, Drop pod Dreadnoughts with Heavy Flamers, Sword Bretheren Terminators, and Assault Centurions in a Storm Raven. Those seem pretty fluffy to me.


but then all of those units will have LESS assault potential then when we had access to tailor our army via vows, no more rage/Preferred Enemy, no more '+1S -1I' or Fearless in CC, if these rumors are true then what we had in an outdated 4th ed book from 8 years ago is actually giving us MORE incentive to play an assault army then what our 6th ed book apparently will

Unless I wasnt aware that our 4th ed book was totally overpowered or broken then it is a nerfing to both the Black Templar theme and their CC power


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

The codex is sounding pretty awesome, but so help me If those centurions are better than obliterators I'll nerd rage so hard...


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

redmapa said:


> but then all of those units will have LESS assault potential then when we had access to tailor our army via vows, no more rage/Preferred Enemy, no more '+1S -1I' or Fearless in CC, if these rumors are true then what we had in an outdated 4th ed book from 8 years ago is actually giving us MORE incentive to play an assault army then what our 6th ed book apparently will
> 
> Unless I wasnt aware that our 4th ed book was totally overpowered or broken then it is a nerfing to both the Black Templar theme and their CC power


There is no helping you then...

Few units with powerful special rules vs a slew of new units with decent supporting rules. That is what is happening right now. 

Apparently you want Powerful rules with updated units and some new ones. That isn't going to happen. If you get Assault Centurions with Rage and Preferred Enemy other Marine players would complain or follow suit. More than likely the former. 

+1 Str and -1 Initiative is meh at best now that you mention it (Krak Grenades being the answer to the issue since the start of 6th), Marines are practically Fearless as is, invest in a Chaplain if you want to be Fearless. I hear they are fluffy for Black Templars. Fearless in CC can be a huge drawback if you get charged and end up in a CC you do not want to be in. 

Just give the book a new chance. I guarantee that all of the new options will make up for those few rules that you lost. Assault Centurions, Vanguard, Honor Guards, buffed Crusaders, Flyers, AA vehicles... I mean seriously you get decent AA now.


----------



## redmapa

> Just give the book a new chance. I guarantee that all of the new options will make up for those few rules that you lost. Assault Centurions, Vanguard, Honor Guards, buffed Crusaders, Flyers, AA vehicles... I mean seriously you get decent AA now.


I will give the new book a chance and I WILL stick to my Templars regardless of how nerfed they are or how complete garbage their chapter traits are, I will seriously laugh in the face of anyone who claims that 'Black Templars are a viable 6th ed assault army' yeah right...


----------



## Zion

redmapa said:


> but then all of those units will have LESS assault potential then when we had access to tailor our army via vows, no more rage/Preferred Enemy, no more '+1S -1I' or Fearless in CC, if these rumors are true then what we had in an outdated 4th ed book from 8 years ago is actually giving us MORE incentive to play an assault army then what our 6th ed book apparently will
> 
> Unless I wasnt aware that our 4th ed book was totally overpowered or broken then it is a nerfing to both the Black Templar theme and their CC power


Give the codex time to drop and the ink to dry before you go condemming the Templar options. We really don't know how everything will interact as you're getting all the options from the Vanilla book injected into the jugular right now.

I'm not saying don't have an opinion, but I think judgement should be saved until after we actually have the book out and new ideas can start forming on how the Templars will play.



ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> The codex is sounding pretty awesome, but so help me If those centurions are better than obliterators I'll nerd rage so hard...


Please don't start nerd raging. It's all that I see other than the actual rumors and it's draining to wade through.


----------



## Zion

Here's the last bit from 40k Radio as they're boarding the flight now. There will be more information coming, but for the moment we're having a timeout.



> Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
> A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.
> 
> Q: Oh, do the Chaplains get any melee weapon options, or are they stuck with Crozius only?
> A: They have other power weapon options and they can also have Chapter Relics.
> 
> Q: With the Ultramarines Chapter Trait do you choose, or is it based on how you build your army?
> A: You choose but it will kind of force yourhand to build a certain way to take advantage of CT.
> 
> Q: Do Grav have haywire as some early rumors suggested?
> A: Grav have concussive.
> 
> Q: On the stalker model it seems that its two weapon turrets can move seperatly, there was also a rumour before that they could split fire. Is there any indication of this or does the stalker simply have a s7 heavy 4 gun?
> A: You're very astute. There is an option to fire at two targets with a lowered BS.
> 
> Q: What are the specs of the flame launcher on LoD with ignores cover USR?
> A: All shooting attacks ignore cover saves.
> 
> Q: Do we get interrogator chappie/reclusiarch?
> A: No, basic Chaplain for all.
> 
> Q: Did shooty Terminators get better/cheaper?
> A: Heavy Flamer went up in points, while assault cannon and cyclone saw a same points decrease.
> 
> Q: How many points costs Tigurius now?
> A: 165 points. Down 65 points.
> 
> Q: How much do ML 1 and 2 librarians cost?
> A: ML1 = 65 and ML2 is a 25 point upgrade.
> 
> Q: Does Thunderfire Cannons get any advantage of IH Chapter Tactics? I mean, FNP or It never dies? Their techmarine gets de +1 on Omnissiah's blessing?
> A: Yes the Techmarine would get FNP, +1 Omniissiah, and it will not die.
> 
> Q: Has auxillary grenade launcher changed?
> A: 24" rapid fire.
> 
> Q: Are Tactical Squads basically the same as in CodexA, as far as organisation and equipment options go?
> A: Yes


Up next the FULL roll-up of all the questions thus far.


----------



## Zion

Alright here's the full roll-up thus far (first Faeit212's and then the Q&A stuff I collected)



Faeit212 said:


> Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
> 
> Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
> 
> Kantor is in.
> 
> Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.
> 
> Lysander is still in there and he is still bad ass but he is 30pts more.
> 
> No new shooty HQ. MoF is still in the dex so he's your beat option. No way to make termies troops or scoring.
> 
> The only one that deviates in this way is Kantor, he allows sternguard to score. Khan gives bike and dedicated transports in the WS detachment scout.
> 
> No bionic rules but Iron Hands have army wide 6+ FNP and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters .
> 
> Centurion "devastator" come with Twin-Linked Heavy bolter and hurricane bolter for 60 pts. You can have up to 6 in a squad.
> 
> Legion of the Damned have flaming projectiles. All ranged attacks have ignore cover special rule.
> 
> Black templars are in the book. They can not take some selections but have access to Centurions, Thunderfires, and so on. They have special rules for Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Chapter Tactics for the following chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.
> 
> Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.
> 
> Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne bolters.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> (Centurions) Two plus save no invul. Toughness and strength of five.
> 
> Also you can not deep strike the centurions.
> 
> Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
> 
> Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
> 
> Kantor is in.
> 
> Legion of the Damned are 25 points a model.
> 
> No Vows (Black Tenplars), just chapter tactics.
> 
> Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.





40k Radio said:


> Q: How do scouts look?
> A: The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.
> 
> Q: How about Marines?
> A: Tactical Marines are 14 points each.
> 
> Q: What do Raven Guard get?
> A: Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
> 
> Q: What are the Imperial Fists chapter traits?
> A: IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.
> 
> Q: What did Salamanders get?
> A: Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.
> 
> Q: What's up with the new tanks?
> A: both weapons are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.
> 
> Q: What do the Templars look like?
> A: Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.
> 
> Q: How do homebrew/unknown lineage chapters work?
> A: If you're an unknow founding or a home brew chapter you can pick what Chapter Tactics you want.
> 
> Q: What's the situation with Crusader Squads?
> A: The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.
> 
> Q: Any new wargear (along the lines of auspex from DA codex)?
> A: There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.
> 
> Q: How high is the rate of fire for the other AA tank?
> A: Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.
> 
> Q: Can you please confirm whether or not pure bike armies are no longer legal to field?
> A: No you can not. You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.
> 
> Q: Are storm ravens/storm talons in the book. or are we required to use "Death from the Skies"?
> A: Yes they are in the book and you do not need Death from the Skies.
> 
> Q: Do UM retain their "fall-back from combat and may act normally" ability? Thanks in advance!
> A: No that rule does not exist anymore. Like all the chapters their Chapter Tactics are set.
> 
> Q: What is going on with the Emperor's Champion?
> A: The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders"
> 
> Q: Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?
> A: Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.
> 
> Q: Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?
> A: No, Only bikes.
> 
> Q: Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.
> A: Those do not exist. That was wish listing.
> 
> Q: Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?
> A: Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.
> 
> Q: Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.
> A: No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.
> 
> Q: Did sternguard special ammo change at all?
> A: Remained the same, SG went down to 22 points
> 
> Q: Are there any other scoring units besides sternguard, tac, and scouts?
> A: Only Tac and scouts. SG if you take Kantor and 5 man bike squad if you take a Captain on a bike.
> 
> Q: Any changes at all to the Black Sword or is the EC just some sort of challenge monkey now? I wonder what "for his points will be a good character hunter" could mean.
> A: EC has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.
> 
> Q: Thank you so much, a final question, the BT situation sounds like we were better off with a 4th ed codex, do the special characters give anything special? What does Helbrecht and Grimaldus look like and do for the army?
> A: No they do not add anything. They've been basically upgraded to 6th ed. For a BT will be happy with all the options they will have.
> 
> Q: Just out of curiosity, does Accept any challenge give them rending in Challenges, or allows them to reroll rending throws?
> A: They have rending.
> 
> Q: Is there any way for Templars to have access to CC boosting USRs via characters?
> A: Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)
> 
> Q: Any idea if the Champion is still BT-only or they opened it up for other chapters that have them in the fluff (IF and CF for example)?
> A: EC are only for BT armies.
> 
> Q: Is that 3-5 man bike squad as troops, or 5-10 man bike squads to count as troops? Also, is the attack bike still an upgrade to a bike squad, as well as a separate choice?
> A: Its a 3-5 man. You can upgrade one to an attack bike.
> 
> Q: how big can a crusader squad be?
> A: Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.
> 
> Q: what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
> A: Grimaldus gives Zaelot
> 
> Q: what units are restricted to Templars?
> A: Only librarians
> 
> Q: how do Castellans work?
> A: You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.
> 
> Q: Does the Emperor's Champion's sword still have the +2 to strength in addition to being AP2?
> A: Yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.
> 
> Q: And does the 4++ invulnerability now work outside of close combat, too?
> A: Yes he is always 2+/4+.
> 
> Q: can castellans/marshals take command squads
> A: Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.
> 
> Q: can Helbrecht take an honor guard
> A: Yes because he is a Chapter Master
> 
> Q: what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
> A: Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.
> 
> Q: which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
> A: Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.
> 
> Q: did the costs of dedicated transports change?
> A: Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.
> 
> Q: also, do you mind sharing any changes to devestator costs or the potential load-outs for tac squads?
> A: Devs went down. Close to Dark Angel book.
> 
> Q: any way to get 2 special weapons?
> A: No way to get 2 specials.
> 
> Q: Are grav weapons solid shots or blast? Do they have any other special rules ex: haywire?
> A: Solid shot and they have concussive
> 
> Q: Any improvements to dreads?
> A: Dreads are basically the same.
> 
> Q: Are the whole range of Ultramarines Special Characters still in there?
> Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Chronus, Telion, and Sicarius?
> What do they do nowadays?
> A: Yes all Ultra characters are in and are Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.
> 
> Q: If BT indeed use regular SM Chaplain entry, do the chaplains have two or three wounds, and two or three base attacks?
> A: W2 A2
> 
> Q: Does Lysander give any special rules?
> A: No. He went up in points but he is still gnarly.
> 
> Q: Can Sternguard become Troops?
> A: No they can not. Kantor allows them to be scoring.
> 
> Q: Does Lysander still have Eternal Warrior?
> A: Yes, he still has EW.
> 
> Q: You covered BT, UM, Ravenguard, Fists, Salamanders, and Iron Hands. Is that all of the chapters? Or are there more special chapter rules for other chapters?
> A: If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.
> 
> Q: So to confirm, you can't take an all bike army?
> A: Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.
> 
> Q: Any change to Honor Guard?
> A: They went down in points. That is their big change.
> 
> Q: Is there any way to get an extra attack on tacticals? Such as a combat blade?
> A: There is no way to do that.
> 
> Q: Did Vindicators change in price or function?
> A: Right about same points. No big change, basically the same.
> 
> Remember that CF with use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Vanguard Veterans are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.
> 
> Q: Can we just get the whole Centurion statline out of the way once and for all?
> A: WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+
> 
> Q: Any changes to Shrike or Kor'sarro?
> A: Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
> Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
> 
> Q: For salamanders. Do flame weapons include melta and flamestom cannon. Also what does vulkan do for the army?
> A: Only for flame weapons covered on page 56 of the Rulebook. Meltas get twin-linked if you take Vulkan.
> 
> Q: For BT Chapter tactics, is the reroll and rending only in a challenge? Or is it reroll all the time and rending in challenge?
> A: Yes that is only in a challenge. When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.
> 
> Q: How many attacks do the Centurians have?
> A: 1A and Sgt 2A. The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version...
> 
> Q: Would you happen to know if the capacity on the land raider is still 12?
> A: LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12
> 
> Q: Are there terminator command squads?
> A: No Termie command squads.
> 
> Q: What buffs does Lysander have other than EW?
> A: Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.
> 
> Q: So only characters benefit from the BT chapter tactic?
> A: Yes for challenges. Your army also gets Crusader USR and Adamantium Will USR.
> 
> Q: What does Grimauldus specifically give? You mentioned Zealot, is that army wide?
> A: No army wide rule. Zealot USR works for him and the unit he is in. If a units is within 6" of the servitors they get a 6+ invul.
> 
> Q: Any special characters for Iron Hands?
> A: No Iron Hands Characters.
> 
> Q: Any changes to the Master of the Forge?
> A: Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Q: Is it possible to give the MoF invl save now? < big iron hands player wanna run a themed force with ironfather HQ but i think ill need the invl for CC
> A: Looks like 6+ FNP will be the best you can get unless you take a Chapter Relic, which gives a 6+ invul.
> 
> Q: Is that +1 to the blessing for IHs a specific rule of the MoF or part of the IH traits that applied to all techmarines?
> A: +1 is only for IH Chapter Tactics
> 
> Q: And does bolter drill still work on all bolt weapons (minus the sternguards) or just rifles/combirifles?
> A: All Bloters on page 56 of Rulebook and combi-wepon bolters. You can not use it on the special ammo that the sternguard use.
> 
> Q: What are the White Scars Chapter Traits?
> A: +1 to jink save, Auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run except for termies and both sets of Centurions.
> 
> Q: What does Khan do?
> A: He gives Bikes and Transports the Scout USR
> 
> Q: What are the options for the Crusader Squads?
> A: Crusader squads are basically the same as last BT. You get the option of a Sword Brother upgrade(Vet sgt). So you could put 2 power weapons in one squad. There can still be up to 20 models in one unit.
> 
> Q: Has Marneus Calgar changed at all?
> A: Calgar gets three warlord traits, his armor does not prevent him from preforming a sweeping advance, and he went up in points. He's a supreme badass but you pay for it.
> 
> Q: Are those big fists on the shooty Centurions powerfists? What about the assault version- do they strike at initiative because they have Ironclad assault launchers?
> A: Centurion Devs do not have PF. The Assult Centurions do strike at initiative, the drills are not unwieldy.
> 
> Q: Are black templar's still prohibited from allying with non-grey knight psykers? (Sanctified Psykers, Inquisitors with Psionics, etc)
> A: BT are still Ally of Convenience. You will still follow the rule book.
> 
> Q: And does the Emperor's champion take up a force organization slot?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: What chief librarian tigurius? Is going to give other pysker's a run for their money?
> A: I think Tigurius is easily the most improved SC. He will be very tempting for Ultramarine players and he comes in relatively cheap. Overall A+ over last edition.
> 
> Q: Can the Emperor's Champion be taken as the Warlord?
> A: Yes because he is taken as a HQ choice.
> 
> Q: Is Calgar above 300 points?
> A: Calgar is 275
> 
> Q: Have TH/SS termies gone up in price?
> A: TH/SS Terminators cost +5 points
> 
> Q: What're the rules for the Assault Centurion's drills?
> A: S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, armorbane, strikes at initiative
> 
> Q: What is Grimaldus' stat line like? Any variations from a standard chaplain? And does he have anything like Eternal warrior or IWND?
> A: He has "It will not Die", no EW.
> 
> Q: Any special BT items or upgrades?
> A: Nothing special for Black Templars, you just get the full access to the codex. So you get Vanguard, Sternguard, Centurion and so on. You have the ability to put multiple power weapons in crusader squads. One is a non-character which can not be challenged. You get to hide a power weapon.
> 
> Q: Is there any limitations to the EC? Can anybody take one?
> A: EC can only be taken by BT and they're a HQ choice.
> 
> Q: Is a "Castellan" a BT sgt in a vet squad?
> A: Castellans are gone. Vet Sgts are Sword Brothers.
> 
> Q: Mind a rundown of the 6 Chapter Relics?
> A: he relics consist of two swords, one bolter, set of armor, one storm shield and one banner.
> 
> Q: Are there Space Marine Warlord Traits?
> A: Yes, one chart for all armies.
> 
> Q: Does Imperial Fist Bolter drill give rerolls to hit and to wound of 1? Or just to hit?
> A: To hit rolls of 1's.
> 
> Q: Is Telion cheaper/different?
> A: Telion is the same points and all updated with sniper rules for 6th
> 
> Q: Same with Chronus? Is he worth considering now?
> A: Chronus is cheaper but still not worth it. Just increases the BS by 1
> 
> Q: Is the basic Chapter Master differentiated from a Captain with more than orbital bombardment?
> A: CM has A4 and W4 and access to honor guard as command squad.
> 
> Q: Does the command squad of a master have better/different options than a captain?
> A: It's Honor Guard.
> 
> Q: Is the Storm Raven more expensive in these new rules? Different in any other ways?
> A: Storm Raven stayed 200 points.
> 
> Q: What sort of special tricks does Tigirius bring to the list?
> A: Tight is ML 3, knows all disciplines, he can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers, he can re-roll reserves(even successful ones), HoH is a psychic hood and he can re-roll failed psychic test.
> 
> Q: are drop pods still 12 to a pod?
> A: Dop pod is back to 10.
> 
> Q: Landraider redeemer the same?
> A: LRR is 12
> 
> Q: How is Heroic Intervention different?
> A: They do not get the penalty for disordered charge and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.
> 
> Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
> A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.
> 
> Q: Do the Vanguard Veterans still get to assault the turn they deep strike jump packs then?
> A: No. That rule is gone.
> 
> Q: How many wounds and attacks does Grimaldus have?
> A: Grim is W3/A3
> 
> Q: And are Reclusiarchs in the codex?
> A: Reclusiarchs are gone. There is one Chaplain to chose from.
> 
> Q: For those with non first founding chapter & BT, is there a system of making your own chapter tactics(like the chapter traits from the 4th edition codex)?
> A: No. You will have to chose out of the Chapter Tactics provide.
> 
> Q: Did the predator tanks and devestators have their prices modified in the codex?
> A: They both got point decreases.
> 
> Q: Is the old Power Armored Marneus Calgar mini nonexistent?
> A: He's in Artificer armor. For 10 points more he gets Termie armor.
> 
> Q: Are there any new Ultramarine Characters?
> A: No new characters.
> 
> Q: Does Orbital Bombardment still exist?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Is Calgar's Termie Armor the same? Built in Teleport Homer, or does it do anything special?
> A: Same, but let's you sweeping advance in Terminator Armor and still has homer.
> 
> Q: There are so many BT on because we are getting screwed by GW who is basically trying to make us in to a lame variant of a codex chapter, something we are definitely not. The more I read, the less I want to continue playing 40K.
> A: I think the BT are better. You have more options than you know what to do with and most if not all of your troops are cheaper. It's not that bad.
> 
> Another BT player raising his complaints....
> Q: More options but if CC crusaders are not getting any bonus in CC then BT are WORSE in CC then with the 4th ed book and because termies will get 1 less heavy weapon in a squad of 5 BT Gunline will have less missiles
> A: Those things had gone they way of the dodo bird a half a decade ago. Even if they got their own dex there ways no way that you were still going to get two heavy weapons in five termies and other outdated rules.
> 
> Squads are just as good as there 4th codex iteration. They're cheaper, they come with frag/krak grenades, up to two power weapons, 2 flyer types, and the list goes on. There are far more pluses than minuses.
> 
> If you were banking on rules that are old and outdated then you will be disappointed. If you look at all the options then you will be excited about the possibility and the flexibility that the new dex offers.
> 
> Back to the Q&A:
> 
> Q: Ironclads the same?
> A: Ironclads are the same.
> 
> Q: About Honor Guard, have they gotten cheaper? Has the chapter champion got more bad ass or is he still...meh?
> A: Honorguard are cheaper and the company champion is the same, at least he's cheaper.
> 
> Q: landspeeders the same? Or similar to the dark angels cost wise? Doubt they get 1-5 too.
> A: Speeders are 1-3
> 
> Q: What about Cassius and Sicarius?
> A: 1)Sicarius is 15 points cheaper and basically the same.2)Cassius is 5 points more.
> 
> Q: Any change regarding the Whirlwind?
> A: Nope. Missiles do the same and its 65 points.
> 
> Q: Does IF bolter drill only apply to boltguns/bolt pistols (minus special ammo) or does it apply to hvy and hurricane bolters as well?
> A: It works on every bolter on page 56 of the rule book. Hurricane bolters already get a re-roll and you can't re-roll a re-roll.
> 
> Q: Can you give the full breakdown of grav-weapons? S value? how do they work v. vehicles? difference between grav gun and grav cannon?
> A: Grav weapons wound the target based on their armor save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is immobilized and loses a HP.
> 
> Q: Did the Codex Powers change?
> A: They use the psychic powers out of the rule book, so null zone and the other powers are gone.
> 
> Q: What are te ranges on the new Grav Guns? Are they rapid fire?
> A: Pistol: Range 12", Gun: 18" salvo 2/3, and Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5
> 
> Q: Did the dreadnoughts gain any rules (like the rumored Inspiring Presence)?
> A: No, I think that's more wish listing.
> 
> Q: Do the Devs get Flakk Missles?
> A: Yes. They have to pay and additional 10 points.
> 
> Q: Can Honor Guard get and invunerable now (storm shields)?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Is there some caveat to the first half of the UM tactical rule (like..i don't know,does not work on heavy weapons for example...) or is it just a plain better version of the IF one even without the extra bonus for tactical squads?
> A: It will work on any weapon that rolls a 1, while the IF only works on bolter type weapons.
> 
> Q: How many points are the Scout Bikes?
> A: 18 points
> 
> Q: Did they change the Cereberus launcher on the LS storm? used to be -2 leadership to enemies assaulted after disembarking.
> A: It's not the same. It's range 18" S 2 large blast Blind.
> 
> Q: Do BT get Land Raider Redeemers as Dedicated, or only Land Raider Crusaders?
> A: Just LRC.
> 
> Q: Out of intrest, is there anything in the book that stops BT from allying with a psyker? (I know they cant take one)
> A: Im not seeing anything that will stop you from allying.
> 
> Q: Any change to the Sternguard ammo types?
> A: Same as before
> 
> Q: Who can take the Grav Weapons?
> A: Basically anyone who can take special weapons or pistol upgrades. They heavy one is only on the Dev Centurions.
> 
> Q: How much cheaper are Honor Guard exactly?
> A: They dropped 25 points.
> 
> Q: Does the Signum still work the same?
> A: Yes it give one member BS5
> 
> Q: So they actually gave the straight better rule to ultramarines (at least with other chapters they have different rules...Here it's just...better)...That makes me kind of sad.
> A: Not really you have to invest a lot points into Tac squads and there essentially picking your army for you.
> 
> Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
> A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75
> 
> Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
> A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.
> 
> Q: Oh, do the Chaplains get any melee weapon options, or are they stuck with Crozius only?
> A: They have other power weapon options and they can also have Chapter Relics.
> 
> Q: With the Ultramarines Chapter Trait do you choose, or is it based on how you build your army?
> A: You choose but it will kind of force yourhand to build a certain way to take advantage of CT.
> 
> Q: Do Grav have haywire as some early rumors suggested?
> A: Grav have concussive.
> 
> Q: On the stalker model it seems that its two weapon turrets can move seperatly, there was also a rumour before that they could split fire. Is there any indication of this or does the stalker simply have a s7 heavy 4 gun?
> A: You're very astute. There is an option to fire at two targets with a lowered BS.
> 
> Q: What are the specs of the flame launcher on LoD with ignores cover USR?
> A: All shooting attacks ignore cover saves.
> 
> Q: Do we get interrogator chappie/reclusiarch?
> A: No, basic Chaplain for all.
> 
> Q: Did shooty Terminators get better/cheaper?
> A: Heavy Flamer went up in points, while assault cannon and cyclone saw a same points decrease.
> 
> Q: How many points costs Tigurius now?
> A: 165 points. Down 65 points.
> 
> Q: How much do ML 1 and 2 librarians cost?
> A: ML1 = 65 and ML2 is a 25 point upgrade.
> 
> Q: Does Thunderfire Cannons get any advantage of IH Chapter Tactics? I mean, FNP or It never dies? Their techmarine gets de +1 on Omnissiah's blessing?
> A: Yes the Techmarine would get FNP, +1 Omniissiah, and it will not die.
> 
> Q: Has auxillary grenade launcher changed?
> A: 24" rapid fire.
> 
> Q: Are Tactical Squads basically the same as in CodexA, as far as organisation and equipment options go?
> A: Yes


And here's the full roll up of Centurion Information we have from Blue Table Painting:


Blue Table Painting said:


> Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.
> 
> Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne bolters.
> 
> Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
> 
> They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
> Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
> 
> WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+


----------



## Loli

redmapa said:


> I will give the new book a chance and I WILL stick to my Templars regardless of how nerfed they are or how complete garbage their chapter traits are, I will seriously laugh in the face of anyone who claims that 'Black Templars are a viable 6th ed assault army' yeah right...


For fucks sake, we don't even have the codex yet, all you bloody Templar players seem to want to have your cake and eat and frankly it's starting to piss me off. 

Anyway, congratulations to Zion, what you have done keeping this thread regularly updated is awesome and the effort is great so I'm going to give you a rep. You more than deserve, it 40k Radio are having break then so should you.


----------



## Zion

Loli said:


> For fucks sake, we don't even have the codex yet, all you bloody Templar players seem to want to have your cake and eat and frankly it's starting to piss me off.


While I sympathize that the whinging from multiple sources is growing tiresome, I'd like to kindly remind everyone to be cool to each other.

That said, if people want to discuss the full implications of the rumors on the Templars both the Wargaming Chat or the 40k General Discussions area are good places to launch those topics instead of taking over this thread. _Yes_, they are related to the rumors, but frankly every where I got at the moment the Templar players are taking over every discussion of rumors with their complaints and I don't want to see that continue here as well.



Loli said:


> Anyway, congratulations to Zion, what you have done keeping this thread regularly updated is awesome and the effort is great so I'm going to give you a rep. You more than deserve, it 40k Radio are having break then so should you.


I appreciate the sentiment and I am taking a short one, only to come back and start working this into the weekend roll-up I do over on TWG's blog.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

redmapa said:


> I will give the new book a chance and I WILL stick to my Templars regardless of how nerfed they are or how complete garbage their chapter traits are, I will seriously laugh in the face of anyone who claims that 'Black Templars are a viable 6th ed assault army' yeah right...


I would laugh at anyone's face if they said that any army in 6th Edition is a 'viable' assault army. Shooting is too strong.


----------



## redmapa

> every where I got at the moment the Templar players are taking over every discussion of rumors with their complaints and I don't want to see that continue here as well.


HAHAHA oh wow that is amazing, that confirms that most BT players are mad stubborn zealots..ONWARD BROTHER, THE BITCHING AND MOANING CRUSADE HAS ONLY JUST BEGUN!!

Thank you Zion for organizing the rumors, its a great help.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Loli said:


> For fucks sake, we don't even have the codex yet, all you bloody Templar players seem to want to have your cake and eat and frankly it's starting to piss me off.


I agree. Until the masses get a hold of the codex and spend some time studying their options and working on their lists BT players should just keep quiet instead of crying over milk that hasn't even been spilled yet. I think the fact they are being rolled into the main SM codex instead of getting their own can only be a good thing, greatly increasing the options available to them.


----------



## Zion

redmapa said:


> HAHAHA oh wow that is amazing, that confirms that most BT players are mad stubborn zealots..ONWARD BROTHER, THE BITCHING AND MOANING CRUSADE HAS ONLY JUST BEGUN!!
> 
> Thank you Zion for organizing the rumors, its a great help.


Actually from what I've read it's more that they're hung up on the things the lost (Vows mostly) and ignoring the numerous unit options they gained, or the fact that the Emperor's Champion has an AP2 weapon with two different fighting options, and he rends in challenges (you know, he's ACTUALLY a badass now) more than anything else.

The book was old. It was basically a 3rd Edition book that came out at the start of 4th, and it was hurting pretty bad. It lost some stuff in the update, but it retained a lot of it's unique elements and received a steroid injection that'd make Bane look like a wuss.

Honestly the whinging is pretty bad because everyone gets over worked up on the things lost, but refuse to look at the options gained.



Khorne's Fist said:


> I agree. Until the masses get a hold of the codex and spend some time studying their options and working on their lists BT players should just keep quiet instead of crying over milk that hasn't even been spilled yet. I think the fact they are being rolled into the main SM codex instead of getting their own can only be a good thing, greatly increasing the options available to them.


I wouldn't say they shouldn't have any reactions at all, but they do need to tone it down about 10 levels. They're starting to eclipse the DA AND the CSM players who are whining.


----------



## Creon

Hey, my Codex Army is Raven Guard so the changes sound good to me. BT players sound like they got a good deal in the update, but lost some things that players are used to having, and some feel are iconic to the chapter, and it hurts while waiting to read the codex. 

Also, and Ecodex might show up, and suddenly you'll find Vows and stuff coming back. 

As to a viable Assault codex, Chaos Daemons work that way for me. You just need to accept death is going to come a lot for you, and some stuff will make it.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

thanks for the passage of Info Zion, appreciate it!


----------



## SonofVulkan

It'll be interesting to read how they write some of the new toys into the fluff in the codex. Just hope it's not silly.

And a Gold medal for Zion please.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Well, I could care less about the fluff of how the new units fit in. I'm down for the gameplay and that's pretty much it. :grin:

Any word on the Chaplain & Razorback set or the Strike Force?


----------



## EmbraCraig

That's a great pile of an infodump Zion - good work.

My worry (mainly as an Imperial Fists fan) is that the Ultramarine tactical option sounds pretty much strictly better than the Imperial Fist bolter drill, but hopefully it's just been over abreviated and the UM option is a bit more limited than simply 're-roll all ones to hit'. Obviously devestators getting armour bane makes up for it somewhat (although the +1 on the damage chart vs buildings is a bit poor, although a nice fit for the fluff). But I am quite happy to see that the rules reflect the IF's skill as attackers in a siege, rather than just defenders as they're often made out to be.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Well, I could care less about the fluff of how the new units fit in. I'm down for the gameplay and that's pretty much it. :grin:
> 
> Any word on the Chaplain & Razorback set or the Strike Force?


No new pictures. I guess everyone was too busy reading all the 40k Radio posts to post any. :shok:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> No new pictures. I guess everyone was too busy reading all the 40k Radio posts to post any. :shok:


I guess so. :wink:

By the way, Zion, good job on all the work you've put into this.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I guess so. :wink:
> 
> By the way, Zion, good job on all the work you've put into this.


Thanks!

If you like what I've assembled so far then this weekend's roll-up on TWG will knock your socks off. It's all organized and easier to see that bigger picture with. 

Plus it has all those pretty pictures.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Is there a way we can compile all of it and add it to the first post?


----------



## Zion

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> Is there a way we can compile all of it and add it to the first post?


The roll-up I'm doing for TWG goes live Saturday. I'll take that roll-up and out it into the summary here Sunday.

Nothing personal, but it's a lot of information to port over one way or the other. 

With school starting for me here at the end of the month I'll be doing the same for all future rumor roll-ups. It goes live, then the next day I port it over here into the first post in full. I'm sorry if that annoys anyone, but I've got to consider my school requirements too. 

I'll still do my best to get the rumors -here- and I back things up into Notepad to work off of, so it'll still make it into the first post, just not every day (after all once school starts I can't be up until 2am every day).


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Zion said:


> The roll-up I'm doing for TWG goes live Saturday. I'll take that roll-up and out it into the summary here Sunday.
> 
> Nothing personal, but it's a lot of information to port over one way or the other.
> 
> With school starting for me here at the end of the month I'll be doing the same for all future rumor roll-ups. It goes live, then the next day I port it over here into the first post in full. I'm sorry if that annoys anyone, but I've got to consider my school requirements too.
> 
> I'll still do my best to get the rumors -here- and I back things up into Notepad to work off of, so it'll still make it into the first post, just not every day (after all once school starts I can't be up until 2am every day).


Sorry I meant the bit you posted two pages ago. That was a goof on my part.


----------



## Zion

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> Sorry I meant the bit you posted two pages ago. That was a goof on my part.


Much to my surprise we didn't hit the character cap!

It's up until Sunday then, when it'll be replaced with the easier to read through roll-up.


----------



## Entarion

Maybe stupid question but is there any chance DA are geting some web update to use Centurions too ?


----------



## Zion

Entarion said:


> Maybe stupid question but is there any chance DA are geting some web update to use Centurions too ?


Not so far as what has come out for rumors, no.


----------



## Tawa

Zion said:


> No new pictures.


Shame that


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Entarion said:


> Maybe stupid question but is there any chance DA are geting some web update to use Centurions too ?





Zion said:


> Not so far as what has come out for rumors, no.


Imagine, Deathwing and Ravenwing versions of the Centurions. Ooooo... shiny.


----------



## Creon

It appears the DA will have to suffer with Allied Centurions. A shame.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Creon said:


> It appears the DA will have to suffer with Allied Centurions. A shame.


Last time I checked, there wasn't anything preventing you from painting the Allied Detachment the same as the Primary or as a Successor to the Primary.


----------



## Zion

Little more from the 40k Radio guys. They're answering small batches about once a day while at Gencon it seems.



40k Radio said:


> Q: Grav Amp lets you reroll wounds, that's the only information on it that has come out so far.
> A: Grav Amp allows you to re-roll failed wounds and armor penetration with grav weapons.
> 
> Q: Are Vanguard Vets for sure FA or Elites?
> A: They are elite.
> 
> Q: Does Vulkan get Eternal Warrior?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: How many points is Vukan and does he still mastercraft Thunder Hammers?
> A: Vulcan is 190 and he no longer upgrades thunder hammers to MC.
> 
> Q: Can you mix your army. Like have some units be ultra marines and others be salamanders?
> A: Yes. They're allowed to ally out of the same codex.
> 
> Q: Can Independent Characters (captain, chapter masters, techmarines,etc) take centurion armour as part of their wargear?
> A: No, that is not a wargear option.
> 
> Q: Can non-Black Templar armies (homebrew/unknown founding chapters) choose the Black Templar Chapter Trait? If they can do they have to take Crusader Squads instead of Tactical Squads?
> A: The writing on it is a little vague. I would say yes but it may need a FAQ to clear it up.
> 
> Q: Any Salamander Relics?
> A: No Sally Relics. The are space marine relics shared by all chapters.
> 
> Q: Any idea how grav weapons work against units with mixed armor saves ie Dlord + Wraiths?
> A: It does not but I would figure you would wound on the majority armor save.
> 
> Q: And do Chapter traits work for allied detachments?
> A: No, some SC characters have abilities that effect other units but they must have the same CT to receive that bonus.
> 
> Q: Any new pieces of common wargear like DA got (auspexes, infravisors, power field generators, etc.)?
> A: Mostly grav weapons, Omniscopes, new weapon types for the AA weapons and generally moving wargear to be inline with 6th Ed.
> 
> Q: I keep hearing Vulkan twinlinks Melta and is the same, although it would be a mercy if someone came out and said there are no MC thunder hammers. Can you please confirm? Also I just saw on Natfka that Sallies get to re-roll armour saves from flame weapons including Melta- does this mean invul saves as well?
> A: 1)Vulkan TL meltas
> 2) He does not master craft TH anymore.
> 3) Only works on flame weapons which are on 56 of the Rulebook.
> 
> Q: How many points for Kantor and Vulcan?
> A: 1)Kantor 185
> 2)Vulkan 190
> 
> Q: Sorry - meant if you have an allied detachment of say Ultramarines with Tau, do the Ultramarines still benefit from CT despite being Allies?
> A: Yes, their abilities will work on that detachment. They do not lose CT for allying.


----------



## bitsandkits

I would expect a FAQ about using these new units with none codex chapters to follow pretty quickly after the codex hits the shelves, GW are not going to miss the chance to flog these kits to absolutely every space marine general if they can, with maybe the exception of grey knights.


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> I would expect a FAQ about using these new units with none codex chapters to follow pretty quickly after the codex hits the shelves, GW are not going to miss the chance to flog these kits to absolutely every space marine general if they can, with maybe the exception of grey knights.


Personally I doubt it. We're finally seeing GW start to make the Marine books more divergent (cue more whining from the internet) and the New kits may just be a thing that stays Vanilla only.

IF anyone gets anything I'd expect Space Wolves to get the Hunter/Stalker tanks. It's an option that'd go well for them to have.


----------



## Entarion

I hope they do some update. After Vanguard moved to Elites slot, DA codex seems to be better choice to play veteran themed army for my successor chapter.
Azrael/Belial/Sammael, take termies as troops and have 3 elites slots to take DA veterans and make them shooty/melee 
And for a flavour take 3 heavy centurions instead of dread.



Tawa said:


> Zion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No new pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> Shame that
Click to expand...

We saw them all in pretty good quality. Now we can wait in peace for official pre-order pics.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

Entarion said:


> I hope they do some update. After Vanguard moved to Elites slot, DA codex seems to be better choice to play veteran themed army for my successor chapter.
> Azrael/Belial/Sammael, take termies as troops and have 3 elites slots to take DA veterans and make them shooty/melee
> And for a flavour take 3 heavy centurions instead of dread.
> 
> 
> 
> We saw them all in pretty good quality. Now we can wait in peace for official pre-order pics.


Well we just have another week and a few days. Won't be long.


----------



## Loli

bitsandkits said:


> I would expect a FAQ about using these new units with none codex chapters to follow pretty quickly after the codex hits the shelves, GW are not going to miss the chance to flog these kits to absolutely every space marine general if they can, with maybe the exception of grey knights.


No they won't and they really shouldn't FaQ them. If DA got the use them faqed then what's the point in having a separate book for the DA is they faqed for every new shiny the vanilla codex get. 

IF BA and SW get them - which they shouldn't - then yes DA should be FAQed for them, but otherwise they should be happy to ally them end of.


----------



## Entarion

Tawa said:


> Shame that





Kalishnikov-47 said:


> Well we just have another week and a few days. Won't be long.


Yea. Last week, when first pictures started to appear I was like "Give me new models already. I cannot live without them!!" But then rules appeared with so much text that I got bored and calm down :biggrin:

But what I would like to really see now is content of Strike Force. If it actually contains all new models than it is marvelous deal as Megaforce was.


----------



## Kalishnikov-47

I just wish those Strike Force deals were not GW only and they gave a discount. I look forward to them, but they never offer a discount for bundling which I find odd since they used to and still do on certain box sets. 

Oh well.


----------



## Zion

Kalishnikov-47 said:


> I just wish those Strike Force deals were not GW and they gave a discount. I look forward to them, but they never offer a discount for bundling which I find odd since they used to and still do on certain box sets.
> 
> Oh well.


_Well..._ GW *did* discount some Eldar models in small bundles for a time before their release so nothing is impossible.

On another note I'd like to apologize but I've removed the summary bits I had as they are woefully incomplete, or wrong. Add in that massive wall of text and me creeping towards that character limit and I felt it was best to remove them for now until the proper summary can go up this weekend. I apologize for anyone who feels like I'm short changing you but all the information I'll be posting you can already see, I'm just reorganizing it is all.


----------



## tu_shan82

Just curious if anyone has any idea how FW characters relate to the new codex. For example Carcharadons are a Ravenguard successor, so do they use the chapter tactics in the codex, or if taking Tyberos, do they take the chapter tactics in IA11?


----------



## Zion

tu_shan82 said:


> Just curious if anyone has any idea how FW characters relate to the new codex. For example Carcharadons are a Ravenguard successor, so do they use the chapter tactics in the codex, or if taking Tyberos, do they take the chapter tactics in IA11?


If they don't have Chapter Tactics they use what ever their parent chapter is. If they don't have a parent chapter then you pick something.

HOWEVER in the case of the FW stuff, I expect to see FAQs when it drops to address this, at least for the chapters that have Chapter Tactics rules.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Honestly, I'm ready for this book to drop. I need it for reorganizing my lists... and to determine if my bikes end up as White Scars or Ravenwing, the Captain entry and White Scars supplement will determine that.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Honestly, I'm ready for this book to drop. I need it for reorganizing my lists... and to determine if my bikes end up as White Scars or Ravenwing, the Captain entry and White Scars supplement will determine that.


I'm ready for the book to drop so I can start working on what my 3rd Company Exorcists army will have in way of toys. :grin:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> I'm ready for the book to drop so I can start working on what my 3rd Company Exorcists army will have in way of toys. :grin:


I hope you post something over in the modeling & painting section with that project... as well as a army list. I really want to see how it turns out. Hopefully the book plays well into what you've planned.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I hope you post something over in the modeling & painting section with that project... as well as a army list. I really want to see how it turns out. Hopefully the book plays well into what you've planned.


I'm mostly going to post them into the staff section and then keep copies in the Plog area for posterity. 

Since I'm making a Battle Company (1 Captain, 1 Command Squad, 3 Dreads, 6 Tacts, 2 Assault and 2 Dev) most of the new toys I don't need. Doesn't mean I won't use them, I just don't -need- them.


----------



## Tawa

Entarion said:


> We saw them all in pretty good quality. Now we can wait in peace for official pre-order pics.


Yeah, but I can be an impatient bastard sometimes :laugh:



Entarion said:


> But what I would like to really see now is content of Strike Force. If it actually contains all new models than it is marvelous deal as Megaforce was.


I dreading this for a very good reason! :wink:


----------



## Zion

Here's tonight's roll up! From 40k Radio:



> Q: Do the AA tanks have to snapshot at ground targets (i.e. do they only have skyfire, but no interceptor?)
> A: AA tanks do not have interceptor.
> 
> Q: Does honour guard get to keep both their weapon and 2+ save for their new low price?
> A: HG get Arti armor and power weapons.
> 
> Q: Does Helbrecht gain Orbital Bombardment?
> A: Helbrecht does not.
> 
> Q: Does Kantor still keep his 12" +1A bubble?
> A: yes Kantor does.
> 
> Q: Thanks for the answer, do crusader squads have any other special rule besides ATSKNF and Chapter tactics?
> A: No BT do not.
> 
> Q: How many points is a LS typhoon?
> A: Typhoon 75 points
> 
> Q: How many points for a Dakka Pred/Las Pred?
> A: Las 140 and Dakka 95
> 
> Q: Did they reduce the cost of the Captain?
> A: Captain is 90
> 
> Q: Can models with different chapter tactics be in the same detachment? i.e. Can I take UM and IF in the same primary army then ally in some DA if I wanted them?
> A: No they would have to ally those detachments together.
> 
> Q: How does work sergeants on tac squads? there is an extra cost for sergeant and veteran sergeant like dark angels?
> A: Same as DA
> 
> Q: Any changes on attack bikes in cost, size of unit, etc.?
> A: Attack bikes are now 45
> 
> Q: Is there any unit or weapon in the new codex with Interceptor rule?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Any changes on Land Speeders?
> A: Same
> 
> Q: Are crusader squad availabe to other chapter tactics than BT?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Do Kantor and Helbrecht both have W4 A4 like the generic chapter masters now apparently get?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Are Lysander's stats the same, wounds and such?
> A: Same
> 
> Q: Legion of the damned weapon costs and special rules?
> A: Went down and all their shooting attacks ignore cover.
> 
> Q: Can you go a little bit deeper into what the Chapter Relics are?
> A: Going to cover on the show.
> 
> Q: Am I right to assume that generaly speaking, the costs of units and vehicles that are also in the DA book are the same as they are in that book?
> A: Pretty close to each other.
> 
> Q: Is the Storm Talon the same cost as in Death from the Skies?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Can you use characters from a different Chapter than the one whose trait you are using? In other words, can I make an Iron Hands chapter but still use Tigurius, for example?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Does the Tactical trait affect only infantry units or does it affect vehicles too?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Do SM get their own Warlord Traits table, and if so, what are the traits?
> A: Yes, we will cover it on the show.
> 
> Q: Does Calgar get to pick his traits or does he just get 3 rolls on the tables?
> A: Three rolls on the chart, re-roll doubles.
> 
> Q: how do Grav weapons work on models who don't have armor saves (like Daemons)?
> A: I would say a 5+, might be FAQed.
> 
> Q: Any change to shotguns?
> A: Shotguns S4 assault 2.
> 
> Q: When you say you can ally out of the same codex, is that through the actual ally rules, or that you can mix two armies and their Chapter tactics?
> A: You have to ally the two detachments.
> 
> Q: Raven Guard CT: is Stealth handed out to Vehicles too?
> A: Yes, models in the detachment gain stealth.
> 
> Q: Khan: How much does he cost? How much does Moondrakkan cost?
> A: Khan 125 and bike 25.
> 
> Q: Has the war gear for normal terminators changed .... Ie Can they take combi weapons?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Any improvements to regular captains not previously mentioned? ie cheaper or wargear options besides the relics?
> A: Pretty close to the same.
> 
> Q: Terminators of either type cheaper?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Scout bikers still lay mines or is that different?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Can we get elaboration on the Stalker? All I know right now is "S:7 Heavy4"
> A: S7 AP4 Range 48"
> 
> Q: Can it split fire or something?
> A: You can split fire
> 
> Q: Any special rules, or is it basically just two glorified AA-Autocannons?
> A: Glorified Autocannon
> 
> Q: What is the range on the Hunter's gun?
> A: 60"
> 
> Q: The Ultramarines' Tactical Doctrine only re-rolls 1's for shooting, right?
> 
> Q: Have Tigurius' stats changed at all?
> A: Stats are the same.
> 
> Q: Does a bike Captain only make a bike squad a Troop if it numbers exactly 5 bikes, or or can it be a full "8 man + attack bike" squad?
> A: At least 5 bikes can be up to 8.
> 
> Q: Anything changed with assault squads? Can they be taken as troops? A: 17pts and can't be troops.
> 
> Q: Can command and honor guard take jump packs?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Do librarians have invuln saves? If not, can they buy them as upgrades?
> A: Only in Terminator Armor.
> 
> Q: Do any of the characters or chapter tactics give fearless or stubborn?
> A: No
> 
> Q: What about assault squads? Did their cost decrease a little too? Can they finally take meltaguns?
> A: 17 Points and No Melta Guns.
> 
> Q: So for clarification on the bikes: any 1 bike unit of at least 5 models (of which may be upgraded to an attack bike) can be a troop choice per captain in your army?
> A: Correct.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

That's a lot of info.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> That's a lot of info.


You should see how long the first post is then. It takes MINUTES for it to load after I hit "submit".

They're at Gencon so they're currently answering a large batch of questions all in one go.


----------



## Achaylus72

I have just seen the photo's and gotta say i love the new guff, Son's of Achaylus are gonna get some lurve when i can afford it.


----------



## Zion

Well Heresy is back online, so here's the next chunk of Q&As from 40k Radio (they answered a few questions after I posted the previous batch).



> Q: How many base attacks do Centurions have?
> A: Centurions have A1. Centurion Sergeants have A2.
> 
> Q: Beyond being 15 pts cheaper, any changes to Sicarius?
> A: You get +1 to reserves and no longer seize the initiative on a 5 or 6.
> 
> Q: How many power weapons can a Crusader squad take (besides the Sergeant) and is there an option to take a pair of lighting claws (either for normal BT marines or the Sergeant)
> A: Power Weapon or Power Fist.
> 
> Q: Just to make sure I got it right, Honor Guard get: artificer armour, power weapon, Bolter and bolt pistol for 25 points? That sounds like a good deal even if they don't have a invul save.
> A: Yes, but don't forget about the frag and krak grenades.
> 
> Q: Does the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine trait (Rerolling Ones for non-tatical marines) apply to vehicles? (The answer before was unclear)
> A: Yes, it says "models" in the detatchment. Vehicles are models.
> 
> Q: Does the rule for not taking non-chapter characters apply to Telion?
> A: Telion is marked as an Ultramarine character and has CT(Ultramarines).
> 
> Q: Just to confirm, chapter tactics affect all models in a detachment, to include vehicles, unless otherwise stated, correct?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Lastly, is each gun on the Stalker Heavy 4 or is each gun Heavy 2?
> A: Stalker is Heavy 4. There is an ability to fire at two separate targets. That will be covered on the next show.
> 
> Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?
> A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.


----------



## Haskanael

Miniature dreadnoughts and the Imperium is finaly modernising. What the actual fuck are they thinking? apparently a boat load of new STCs has been found guys.


----------



## Waizer

lot of info there, cheers zion


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Zion said:


> Q: Does the rule for not taking non-chapter characters apply to Telion?
> A: Telion is marked as an Ultramarine character and has CT(Ultramarines).


This is going to affect a lot of people.

150 for Khan on Drakken...Love it.


----------



## Entarion

Do you think that current veteran models dissappear when new ones hit the shelves ? I would really like to pick up old vanguard box together with new one and mix it together.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Entarion said:


> Do you think that current veteran models dissappear when new ones hit the shelves ? I would really like to pick up old vanguard box together with new one and mix it together.


At the GW stores, yes. At the Indie retailers, probably not... unless someone buys them up. Then again, there is always eBay.

So, am I mistaken or does Telion only work with Ultramarines due to Chapter Tactics or whatever?


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> So, am I mistaken or does Telion only work with Ultramarines due to Chapter Tactics or whatever?


As odd as it sounds, it seems so at the moment, yes. It looks like he only works in armies that have Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines.

That said we could be surprised and there could be stuff that was missed or 40k Radio got wrong so we'll need to wait for the full book (or at least leaked scans from China) to make their way around the internet to know for sure.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> As odd as it sounds, it seems so at the moment, yes. It looks like he only works in armies that have Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines.
> 
> That said we could be surprised and there could be stuff that was missed or 40k Radio got wrong so we'll need to wait for the full book (or at least leaked scans from China) to make their way around the internet to know for sure.


True. I guess I'm just anxious to have the book in hand. I'm wondering if Bolter Drill and a Chaplain's Liturgies of Battle will stack or just be one or the other.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> True. I guess I'm just anxious to have the book in hand. I'm wondering if Bolter Drill and a Chaplain's Liturgies of Battle will stack or just be one or the other.


I'm pretty sure the first one is only for shooting, and the second only for assault so I don't think they can stack.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> I'm pretty sure the first one is only for shooting, and the second only for assault so I don't think they can stack.


Yup, totally confused that... Ghhhkk.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Eg:

Bolter drill affects shooting hits
Liturgies affects close combat hits

Ergo- either they don't stack or it doesn't really matter if they do as they don't affect each other.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth

The Centurions... maybe they look better in the flesh. But to me it just looks so static and blocky.


----------



## arlins

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> The Centurions... maybe they look better in the flesh. But to me it just looks so static and blocky.


look like the first transformer toys from back in the 80,s ............maybe theyl transform into preds


----------



## SonofVulkan

Does anyone know if the Centurions are a dual-kit? It'll be easier to make mega-armoured Nobz and Obliterator's if they are.


----------



## Zion

SonofVulkan said:


> Does anyone know if the Centurions are a dual-kit? It'll be easier to make mega-armoured Nobz and Obliterator's if they are.


They *are* a dual kit, but that back section is at least partially exposed, showing the Marine's legs.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

That's easy for oblits, GS over the foot so it looks like a single pice. For Orks? Nail on more armour plates!!!!

MOar Iz BEttah!!!


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> That's easy for oblits, GS over the foot so it looks like a single pice. For Orks? Nail on more armour plates!!!!
> 
> MOar Iz BEttah!!!


The scale of these models seems to be larger than a Terminator, but smaller than a Dreadnought, which makes them a bit on the large scale for either of those.


----------



## Farseer Darvaleth

Does anyone remember that Flashgitz spoof-video of GW?



> A Space Marine... inside a Space Marine...


----------



## Zion

Farseer Darvaleth said:


> Does anyone remember that Flashgitz spoof-video of GW?


Yes. It's only brought up in every single rumor thread for this ever.

It doesn't even apply because it's a Space Marine inside of a heavy exo-suit.


----------



## Protoss119

Zion said:


> It doesn't even apply because it's a Space Marine inside of a heavy exo-suit.


That's what they said about the Dreadknight, too, and look what happened. Mind, I guess that's a subject for another thread.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Still anticipating the Chaplain & Command Squad box, if true, and Strike Force.


----------



## Entarion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Still anticipating the Chaplain & Command Squad box, if true, and Strike Force.


Shouldn't be command squad same or with slight improvement and new chaplain just simply added to them with razorback? And I really need to know content of strike force so I can prepare muy order. Zion can you try get this info out of someone ? :biggrin:


----------



## Zion

Entarion said:


> Zion can you try get this info out of someone ? :biggrin:


If I had someone to ask I would! 

Seems 40k Radio is too busy with Gencon and Space Hulk to answer questions right now.

If/when I find out more I'll pass it along.


----------



## Zion

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-rumor-roll-up-part.html
One rumor rollup a_ little_ bit early.

EDIT: The post unpublished itself. Teach me to schedule the post and then publish it early!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Umm... nothing is there. Broken link?


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Umm... nothing is there. Broken link?


Sorry about that. It decided to misbehave. The beatings have sorted that out.


----------



## Waizer

still looks like its down to me


----------



## Zion

Apparently I was having issues with clipboard and didn't know it. Here you go: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-rumor-roll-up-part.html#.Ug9PSWt5mSM

Stupid Firefox.

If that still doesn't workfor you, it's on the Talk Wargaming blog which can be found through the banner at the top ofthe page.


----------



## Zion

Apparently I was having issues with clipboard and didn't know it. Here you go: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-rumor-roll-up-part.html#.Ug9PSWt5mSM

Stupid Firefox.

If that still doesn't work for you, it's on the Talk Wargaming blog which can be found through the banner at the top of the page.


----------



## Zion

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marine-rumors-closer-look.html

I cover the rumors and give some thoughts on them. 

And don't worry, I haven't forgotten. The summary gets updated tomorrow.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marine-rumors-closer-look.html
> 
> I cover the rumors and give some thoughts on them.
> 
> And don't worry, I haven't forgotten. The summary gets updated tomorrow.


I saw this. Nice. I especially like how you included your own opinion on each unit.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> I saw this. Nice. I especially like how you included your own opinion on each unit.


I figured that I had enough to say that it warranted it's own post. I am catching a small amount of flak on reddit (from one person) for saying I won't play against people who change their chapter traits all the time to suit mechanically suit their lists.

And I won't. You want to play Salamanders on bikes? Cool. Find a way to do it so you benefit from those chapter traits. Don't go changing over to White Scars just because it's more mechanically sound for you this game.

Frankly that's not the kind of game I want to play. I want to sit down with someone who has taken the time to really theme their army, and has done a solid job of it, not someone who just jumps from ruleset to ruleset because they want their army to be the best at everything and have all the advantages and no disadvantages.


----------



## Zion

New summary is up with all the current info.


----------



## Mossy Toes

Hmm. Anybody else feel that Black Templars rules will be used for a bunch of CSM players who want to field Berzerkers armies? I mean, I had Crusader pegged for a BT special rule the moment 6e rolled around, but I had hoped Adamantium Will would be included in the MoK--nope, just here. Add in a badass Emp's Champ, maxed out Crusader squads, and ATSKNF, and you have a badass-yet-disciplined berzerker horde. Damn it.

Ooh! Idea! 2k point army: minimal dual force org IG (CCS and 2 Vet squads x2, plus maybe a Vendetta/Russ) to represent Blood Pact, then allied Khârn/Juggeraxelord CSM AND Allied Black Templars. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!


----------



## Zion

Mossy Toes said:


> Hmm. Anybody else feel that Black Templars rules will be used for a bunch of CSM players who want to field Berzerkers armies? I mean, I had Crusader pegged for a BT special rule the moment 6e rolled around, but I had hoped Adamantium Will would be included in the MoK--nope, just here. Add in a badass Emp's Champ, maxed out Crusader squads, and ATSKNF, and you have a badass-yet-disciplined berzerker horde. Damn it.
> 
> Ooh! Idea! 2k point army: minimal dual force org IG (CCS and 2 Vet squads x2, plus maybe a Vendetta/Russ) to represent Blood Pact, then allied Khârn/Juggeraxelord CSM AND Allied Black Templars. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!


What I'm curious about is if the the Templars _have_ to accept/give challenges or not. That'd be pretty fluffy for them.


----------



## Waizer

Zion said:


> I figured that I had enough to say that it warranted it's own post. I am catching a small amount of flak on reddit (from one person) for saying I won't play against people who change their chapter traits all the time to suit mechanically suit their lists.
> 
> And I won't. You want to play Salamanders on bikes? Cool. Find a way to do it so you benefit from those chapter traits. Don't go changing over to White Scars just because it's more mechanically sound for you this game.
> 
> Frankly that's not the kind of game I want to play. I want to sit down with someone who has taken the time to really theme their army, and has done a solid job of it, not someone who just jumps from ruleset to ruleset because they want their army to be the best at everything and have all the advantages and no disadvantages.


I agree, unfortunately alot of ppl will use homebrew chapters and just use the best chapter rules for each opponent.

I believe though that the ppl who stick to and master 1 chapters rules will be the ones to watch out for, especially in tournaments ect where I imagine you will have to declare your chapter tactics before had


----------



## Jacobite

Waizer said:


> especially in tournaments ect where I imagine you will have to declare your chapter tactics before had


I'll be very surprised if tournies don't run like this.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Was in my local GW this weekend. It was hillarious, is tood there waffling about all the rumours and pics and i could see the staff really wanted to join in, poor bloke was nearly bursting but he couldnt speak!

They are holding a party on the 31st where a drop in and paint a chapter scheme is going on, winner will have their scheme painted on 1500pts of a store army. Also doing arena of death with Space Marine characters and 500pt SM no FoC games.

All off a whim he told me, with tears in his eyes lol. Bit of luck that means I can buy it on 31st. A man can dream!


----------



## Entarion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Was in my local GW this weekend. It was hillarious, is tood there waffling about all the rumours and pics and i could see the staff really wanted to join in, poor bloke was nearly bursting but he couldnt speak!
> 
> They are holding a party on the 31st where a drop in and paint a chapter scheme is going on, winner will have their scheme painted on 1500pts of a store army. Also doing arena of death with Space Marine characters and 500pt SM no FoC games.
> 
> All off a whim he told me, with tears in his eyes lol. Bit of luck that means I can buy it on 31st. A man can dream!


Wish we had GW store in our country...


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Was in my local GW this weekend. It was hillarious, is tood there waffling about all the rumours and pics and i could see the staff really wanted to join in, poor bloke was nearly bursting but he couldnt speak!
> 
> They are holding a party on the 31st where a drop in and paint a chapter scheme is going on, winner will have their scheme painted on 1500pts of a store army. Also doing arena of death with Space Marine characters and 500pt SM no FoC games.
> 
> All off a whim he told me, with tears in his eyes lol. Bit of luck that means I can buy it on 31st. A man can dream!


I'm pretty sure it's just pre-orders on the 31st, but that's the day the WD drops, the curtain falls and he can pour out his deepest, darkest feelings about everything. And talk about the new Marines.


----------



## arlins

Zion said:


> I'm pretty sure it's just pre-orders on the 31st, but that's the day the WD drops, the curtain falls and he can pour out his deepest, darkest feelings about everything. And talk about the new Marines.


yeah when I talked to the local GW manager last week, pre-orders is what I got told on the 31st .

and yeah theyre all itching to talk about it , But cant ( I actually believe theyd get in trouble if they didn't feign ignorance ) .


----------



## Entarion

So I was talking with one of my local Warhammer sellers about my order of new SM but I want also old Vanguard and MK2 veterans. Unfortunately he orders things only once in a month and I am afraid that vanguard and maybe even mk2 disappear with new models. I wanted to buy it from GW but more you order, bigger the shipping is and it was 17£ for those 2 boxes.
So how to get models which disappear from GW site ? I mean is it possible somehow to get it from GW other way ? I would rather refrain to get it from ebay or other shops though and do one order only.


----------



## The Irish Commissar

Do they not usually keep old models like that on the web store. Like if you go to space marines they have loads of old models still on sale for direct order. The sternguard and vanguard might get added there.


----------



## Entarion

The Irish Commissar said:


> Do they not usually keep old models like that on the web store. Like if you go to space marines they have loads of old models still on sale for direct order. The sternguard and vanguard might get added there.


I know. Actually MK1-2 and Tyrranic are alternatives. So I hope they keep them. Unfortunately, not sure about Vanguard/Sternguard when new kits hit the shelves though and have no one to ask expect here.


----------



## returnoftheclown

Zion said:


> Stalker:
> Each gun is: 48" Range, S7, AP4, Heavy 4
> Can Split fire at reduces BS
> AV 12/12/10
> *Does not have Interceptor*
> 10 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
> 
> Hunter:
> 60", S7, AP2, Armourbane, Heavy 1
> AV 12/12/10
> *Does not have Interceptor*
> 15 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades


So, with the mention of no interceptor, curious to know does this mean they are purely anti-flyer with just skyfire or that they will have a skyfire mode or none of the above?


----------



## Zion

returnoftheclown said:


> So, with the mention of no interceptor, curious to know does this mean they are purely anti-flyer with just skyfire or that they will have a skyfire mode or none of the above?


I don't know yet honestly. I've been waiting for 40k Radio to start answering questions again so I can ask if either has a Groundfire mode.


----------



## Waizer

with a skyfire and ground fire mode i can see the hunter having a nice little place in an army. With that armourbane it should take out flyers quite effectively and engage vehicles if no flyers available... and if none of the above are avail you have a s7 ap2 gun with 60" range so a good 2+ save killer


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Can't wait for September 7. C'mon!


----------



## Zion

More Marine Stuff from 40k Radio!



> Q: Is it true that what you guys have is an early playtest material, not the actual printed C:SM codex?
> A: I have the final print copy.
> 
> Q: Are their any new Special Characters?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Is honour guard still 3-10 models, or only available as 5 models similar to command squads or BA honour guard?
> A: 3-10
> 
> Q: Is relic blade still S+2 AP3 two-handed?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Do Legion of the Damned get Soulblaze like in Apoc?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Can the LotD still Deep Strike?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Does the LotD still have Slow and Purposeful?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Can the LotD be joined by characters?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Does Cassius have the Zealot rule?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Do the AA tanks have an alternate fire mode that lets them shoot at ground targets?
> A: No, only one firing mode
> 
> Q: Can child chapters take the SCs of their parent chapters?
> A: No (those are unique to their chapter)
> 
> Q: Can Pedro and Lysander be in the same army without using allies?
> A: No (CF is one chapter, IF is another)
> 
> Q: Are Techmarines slotless HQs like the DA book?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Can Captains still take Artificer Armor?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Do Sternguard combi-weapons still cost 5 points?
> A: No, they're 10 points
> 
> Q: Does Helbrecht have any other special rules besides the once a game rule that gives fleet/hatred?
> A: No
> 
> Q: What is the cost of a five man scout squad with a Vet Sergeant?
> A: 65 Points
> 
> Q: Any changes on Kantor's rules?
> A: Basically the same (will be covered on show)
> 
> Q: Do bikes and centurions get combat squads rule?
> A: Bikes yes, Centurions no.
> 
> Q: Is there is any vehicle able to get grav weapons?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Are neophytes of crusade squad an independent squad that can join the main unit as it was rumoured, or crusade squads are a full unit option?
> A: No, like last BT Dex.
> 
> Q: Is there option for crusade squads of getting two special weapons?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: If one crusader squads takes a CLR as transport, it has any point cost reduction?
> A: I don't have the BT Dex to check.
> 
> Q: Have black templars access to biker scouts?
> A: Yes. They have access to everything except Librarians.
> 
> Q: Marneus Calgar "God of War" rule is still in there? Has it been replaced by the 3 warlord traits rule?
> A: It's different and cool (will be covered on the show).
> 
> Q: How many points cost a grav-gun as special weapon on a tac squad?
> A: 15 points.
> 
> Q: How many points are the lascannon and missle launcher upgrades on the Centurion Devastators?
> A: Lascannon is 10, Missile is 10
> 
> Q: How much do Relic Blades Cost?
> A: Chapter Master and Captain get it for 25 points.


----------



## Djinn24

Spiffy. Really makes me want to play space marines again.


----------



## Zion

Another batch from 40k Radio:



> Q: Does the codex include a Power Field Generator (DA Wargear that generates a 4++ for a unit)?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Can Tactical Marines take a Special Weapon at 5 models?
> A: A Squad of 5 can have a special weapon or heavy weapon.
> 
> Q: Can Calgar still take up to 3 units of Honor Guard?
> A: Yes
> 
> Additionally, does his still have the rule that lets him choose to pass or fail morale checks at will?
> A: Yes (more in the show)
> 
> Q: Are Black Templar Characters required and/or accept challenges?
> A: Not required, but they will be sick in challenges
> 
> Q: Bikes squads that can be made troops, a minimum of 5 models or 5 models max? there is some conflicting sounding information so people just want to confirm.
> A: At least 5 (max 9 with Attack Bike) and if your Captain or Chapter Master is on a bike you make take them as troops.
> 
> Q: So Chapter Masters on bikes can unlock bike squads of at least 5 models as troops too?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Do LotD still have their 3++ save?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Can the Bikers take the grav gun options?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Can Scout Squads take locator beacons or teleport homes?
> A: Teleport Homers.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Like the Bike squad as troops, fits my theme perfectly.

I'm still interested in how the hell these lot have a codex.


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Like the Bike squad as troops, fits my theme perfectly.
> 
> I'm still interested in how the hell these lot have a codex.


Matt Ward?

More from them:



> Q: Does Shrike have any other rules?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Do Chapter Tactics cost anything?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: The Stalker, does it have 4 shots total that it can split fire with or does each gun fire 4 shots each?
> A: 4 shots each (this will be covered on the show)
> 
> Q: Do any of the SC's have Stubborn or Fearless?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Does the Emperor's Champion take up an HQ slot?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Does Sicarius still re-roll his Sieze Initiative attempts?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Any change to Razorbacks?
> A: I believe they went up 5 points
> 
> Q: Does the Ultramarines Tactical Chapter Tactic affect Sternguard special ammo?
> A: I believe so.
> 
> Q: Also, are bike upgrades for Space Marine Captains cheaper?
> A: I think the upgrade stayed the same.
> 
> Q: Are normal bikes cheaper?
> A: Yes
> 
> Q: Are all these answers from an early rendition or playtest and subject to change? Or are these concrete answers from a full codex?
> A: The book I have looks like the final. If this is a fake then a ton of effort has gone into this.


If anyone has questions they want me to ask (beyond Templar ones, I'm pretty sure they've covered just about everything Templar related) post it up and I'll ask it!


----------



## ntaw

I can't wait for my red muhreenz to be able to take a special weapon in 5 man tactical squads.

All this stuff looks like good times for SM players!


----------



## Zion

Here's another small batch from 40k Radio:



> Q: Is there any way to assault from vehicles besides assault ramps on land raiders and stormravens?
> A: The Land Speeder Storm.
> 
> Q: How do Successor Chapters work exactly?
> A: This will be covered on the 1 Sept show. The answer is really long and it's easier to just explain it verbally than type it out.
> 
> Q: If you have two different chapters that use the same chapter tactic, can they ally to each other?
> A: This will als be covered on the 1 Sept show.
> 
> Q: How do Camo Cloaks work?
> A: +1 to cover, or 6+ cover if not in cover
> 
> Q: Can any of the HQs get Camo Cloaks?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Is there a way to get Eternal Warrior?
> A: Yes (will be covered in show (Zion's Speculation: It's a Relic))
> 
> Q: Can any of the HQs buy any special rules?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Do the HQs still have access to Hellfire rounds?
> A: No
> 
> Q: Can we get a rundown on what Grav Weapons will cost?
> A: Grav will be on the show.
> 
> Q: In 5th Edition you were encouraged to use SCs as "Count-As" special characters to give you some new/interesting combinations. Is there anything in the new book that allows you to do this?
> A: You can no longer do that due to Chapter Tactics.
> 
> Q: Just to confirm, this means the Camo Cloaks and the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic stack, right? +2 to their cover saves for having both?
> A: They do stack, but there is a caveat to the Raven Guard rule that will be covered on the show. All Chapter Tactics will be covered on the show.
> 
> Q: BT High Marshal (Chapter Master equivalent?) Helbrecht has no Orbital Bombardment, but BT can take a "regular" Chapter Master and get the OB from him?
> A: Correct, Helbrecht does not have it, but regular Chapter Masters do.


----------



## Zion

This one just got answered:



> Q: To confirm then, successor chapters who use the same Chapter Tactics as their Parent Chapters can't use the SC of their parent chapter, even as a "Count-As"?
> A: Can't use "Count-As" because those are specific to the parent chapter.


This likely applies to homebrew as well.

We also got this:



> Q: Define caveat in terms of Chapters. What are the caveats? Will you go over every chapter?
> A: You have not been given all the details of the CT. We're saving that for the show. We weill cover all the CT in detail.


So they've been holding out on us on some info that may make or break how these rules work.


----------



## Zion

More answers:



> Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
> A: Some went down.
> 
> Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
> A: 10 points.
> 
> Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
> A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.
> 
> Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
> A: Similiar.
> 
> Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
> A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.


----------



## Zion

More answers:



> Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
> A: Some went down.
> 
> Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
> A: 10 points.
> 
> Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
> A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.
> 
> Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
> A: No.
> 
> Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
> A: Similiar.
> 
> Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
> A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

So... I can't use Vulkan, Shrike, or Lysander with my Crimson Fists?


----------



## Zion

And more:



> Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
> A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.
> 
> Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
> A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).
> 
> Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
> A: Generally the same, per units choices.
> 
> Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
> A: PF same.
> 
> Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
> A: 15.
> 
> Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
> A: Yes at 25 points.
> 
> Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
> A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.


----------



## redmapa

> There are many layers to the CTs


I wonder what he means exactly by this


----------



## Zion

redmapa said:


> I wonder what he means exactly by this


I think he means there is a lot more to the Chapter Tactics than we currently know.

EDIT:


Jace of Ultramar said:


> So... I can't use Vulkan, Shrike, or Lysander with my Crimson Fists?


From what I've seen that is correct. You'd have to use them as allies instead.

Sorry about the delay, I didn't see this before.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

No problem. So, this Codex allies with itself.


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> No problem. So, this Codex allies with itself.


From what they've said, yes. But they have to be different chapters. I haven't gotten an answer if they have to have different chapter tactics.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Zion said:


> From what they've said, yes. But they have to be different chapters. I haven't gotten an answer if they have to have different chapter tactics.


Interesting. I need this book, sooner rather than later.


----------



## Zion

Looks like 40k Radio is now undergoing radio silence for the night, but I am still collecting questions and I've got all the ones from today that were answered here:
http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marine-q-roll-up-21-august.html

Just in case anyone wants to see them all in one post.

Of course everything we get this week will end up in the week-end roll-up as well.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Jace of Ultramar said:


> So... I can't use Vulkan, Shrike, or Lysander with my Crimson Fists?


Of course you can, just don't use his CT, Just like I will use Kor'sharro Khan for my White scars successors. Hell I'm using the same CT, i will paint my model how the hell i want!

We have a chaos player we let use storm talons so I'm pretty sure i can get away with this, hopefully your group is as flexible.


----------



## Brother Anvil

I'm a little confused as to the 'counts-as' restrictions.I play Minotaurs, wich don't have 'official' codex rules.So I can use wichever CT I want then? Or do I have to use some generic CT that applies for 'unknown' parentage chapters?

And if I choose let's say the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine, I can't use Pedro ( this would be logical, at least to me ) and can only use the UM SC's?


----------



## Loli

Brother Anvil said:


> I'm a little confused as to the 'counts-as' restrictions.I play Minotaurs, wich don't have 'official' codex rules.So I can use wichever CT I want then? Or do I have to use some generic CT that applies for 'unknown' parentage chapters?
> 
> And if I choose let's say the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine, I can't use Pedro ( this would be logical, at least to me ) and can only use the UM SC's?


Nope which is how it should be. So if you end up using the Ultra trait you can only use the Ultramarines characters. Though regarding stuff like Minotaurs considering FW have a list for them - I think - they ain't going to be covered in Vanilla so using that you will only be Minotaurs in colour really. 

Zion, any chance you can ask if Techies can take upgrades like in the DA codex and if they still get bikes?


----------



## Brother Anvil

Aha, thanks for clearing that up .So Basically I can use UM SC's as long as the trait is UM.Salamander SC as long as I use salamander trait, etc etc.Good to know


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Of course you can, just don't use his CT, Just like I will use Kor'sharro Khan for my White scars successors. Hell I'm using the same CT, i will paint my model how the hell i want!
> 
> We have a chaos player we let use storm talons so I'm pretty sure i can get away with this, hopefully your group is as flexible.


If I had a group. Its hard getting people together in my area since everyone is spread out at different stores.


----------



## Sangus Bane

Loli said:


> Nope which is how it should be. So if you end up using the Ultra trait you can only use the Ultramarines characters. Though regarding stuff like Minotaurs considering FW have a list for them - I think - they ain't going to be covered in Vanilla so using that you will only be Minotaurs in colour really.
> 
> Zion, any chance you can ask if Techies can take upgrades like in the DA codex and if they still get bikes?


The Master of the Forge can take a bike, not sure about regular Techmarines.


----------



## Zion

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Of course you can, just don't use his CT, Just like I will use Kor'sharro Khan for my White scars successors. Hell I'm using the same CT, i will paint my model how the hell i want!
> 
> We have a chaos player we let use storm talons so I'm pretty sure i can get away with this, hopefully your group is as flexible.


Not everyone plays in an area that's so...flexible with how the game is played. That said, we don't have the actual verbatim rules just yet because 40k Radio won't give them to us until their show. 



Brother Anvil said:


> I'm a little confused as to the 'counts-as' restrictions.I play Minotaurs, wich don't have 'official' codex rules.So I can use wichever CT I want then? Or do I have to use some generic CT that applies for 'unknown' parentage chapters?
> 
> And if I choose let's say the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine, I can't use Pedro ( this would be logical, at least to me ) and can only use the UM SC's?


As far as we know, it's at least that restricted. Maybe more so.



Loli said:


> Nope which is how it should be. So if you end up using the Ultra trait you can only use the Ultramarines characters. Though regarding stuff like Minotaurs considering FW have a list for them - I think - they ain't going to be covered in Vanilla so using that you will only be Minotaurs in colour really.
> 
> Zion, any chance you can ask if Techies can take upgrades like in the DA codex and if they still get bikes?


Minotaurs have characters in IA12 for use with Codex: Space Marine. If FW doesn't give them (or any other chapter, like the Exorcists) Chapter Tactics to use with those HQ characters then you pretty much use whatever you want. And if those HQ characters do get rules, then if you use them depends on you using those rules.

And I added your inquries to the list.


----------



## Zion

Just a heads up: I got a message from 40k Radio. Their still playing catch up from Gen Con so there is a good chance that there won't be a Q&A tonight.

I'm still hanging onto the questions (list is currently 18 long, not counting the ones already waiting on their FB page).


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Wow, Zion, keep up the great work!


----------



## bitsandkits

this is all cool stuff but some more photos would be nice.


----------



## Doelago

So we got pics of all the minis, but no one has yet posted a picture of the Codex cover art?


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I'm still dubious on 40k radio having one. A shot of the first page credits would shut me up....


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> I'm still dubious on 40k radio having one. A shot of the first page credits would shut me up....


I just can't see such a high profile group in the community doing this just for Lulz, so I tend to trust they have their hands on stuff. (Plus someone obviously got their hands on one of the vanguard boxes so the items are printed and done). I am not entirely sure I trust their information 100% for the simple reason they have intentionally and publicly withheld some info that might change the nature of what we have been told.


----------



## Waizer

iamtheeviltwin said:


> I just can't see such a high profile group in the community doing this just for Lulz, so I tend to trust they have their hands on stuff. (Plus someone obviously got their hands on one of the vanguard boxes so the items are printed and done). I am not entirely sure I trust their information 100% for the simple reason they have intentionally and publicly withheld some info that might change the nature of what we have been told.



I agree. If they have everything avail, rules wise, they wouldn't release it all in 1 go as why would ppl come back to them after?

I honestly think that we know alot, but the rules/caveats they are withholding will make a massive difference to the armies we are all probably constructing in our heads. The raven guard info they are not releasing I think could make a massive difference to how that chapter works

Guess we'll all know soon enough


----------



## Zion

Waizer said:


> I agree. If they have everything avail, rules wise, they wouldn't release it all in 1 go as why would ppl come back to them after?
> 
> I honestly think that we know alot, but the rules/caveats they are withholding will make a massive difference to the armies we are all probably constructing in our heads. The raven guard info they are not releasing I think could make a massive difference to how that chapter works
> 
> Guess we'll all know soon enough


Well since it popped up in response to seeing if camo cloaks and the RG chapter tactic stack...I wonder if their scouts get free camo cloaks.


----------



## kickboxerdog

when are pre orders up for the new marines?


----------



## Zion

kickboxerdog said:


> when are pre orders up for the new marines?


31st of September. We should see a teaser video on Monday.


----------



## Waizer

Zion said:


> Well since it popped up in response to seeing if camo cloaks and the RG chapter tactic stack...I wonder if their scouts get free camo cloaks.


so scouts can get +2 to their cover saves (so 2+ in ruins) and might get the cloaks for free too... doesn't sound too bad


----------



## Zion

Waizer said:


> so scouts can get +2 to their cover saves (so 2+ in ruins) and might get the cloaks for free too... doesn't sound too bad


It's just speculation of course. I don't know the full extent of things yet.

And here's some clarification from 40k Radio:

From a Message Conversionation with 40k Radio:

Q: Which Chapters are we missing Chapter Tactics on?
A: You have all of them, but not the full extent of the rules (Zion's Notes: I'm waiting to get a little clarification on this)

Q: Could you give us a summary on how this SC restriction works exactly?
A: The SC only work for their Chapter. For example, Telion can only be in an Ultramarines army.

Q: Is there a way to take SCs in another army (for example, a homebrew or in an army that doesn't have Chapter Tactics?).
A: The only way that can happen is if they play Ultras and use their CT, but you paint them Blood Ravens. You have to match the SC to the CT.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Ahh so my whole I will use white scar ct and korsharro thing is moot as I am allowed lol.


----------



## Zion

Got a little clarification on the first question: 
Q: Which Chapters are we missing Chapter Tactics on? 
A: You have all of them, but not the full extent of the rules (Zion's Notes: I'm waiting to get a little clarification on this) 
CLARIFICATION:RG and Ultras. mostly about how they work. 

That's right, we don't have the full story on the UM Chapter Tactics. 

I kind of want to guess perhaps it's once per game?


----------



## Loli

So the other chapters get two traits that's it's yet Ultras and RG get something funky as well as two traits?


----------



## Zion

Loli said:


> So the other chapters get two traits that's it's yet Ultras and RG get something funky as well as two traits?


I think we're missing stipulations like "Stealth only in terrain" or the Ultramarine Tactical CT only working if they are holding an objective or something. They said we have all the rules, we just don't have to full rules on how those rules are used or what limitations they actually have.


----------



## Zion

Alright, newest summary is live now: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marine-rumor-roll-up-iii.html

I'll add it to the front page this weekend.


----------



## Zion

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-roll-up-special.html

And the most recent/accurate information I can bring you is live.


----------



## redmapa

Helbrecht has rites of battle, not valor..

Thanks for organizing the info : )


----------



## Zion

redmapa said:


> Helbrecht has rites of battle, not valor..
> 
> Thanks for organizing the info : )


I don't have my copy of the codex immediately handy for them so I just typed what they said. It's fixed now. Thanks!


----------



## redmapa

So is it the Sword of the High Marshalls that give +d3 attacks to Helbrecht (same as now) or the 'legacy of dorn' special rule? 40kradio wasnt very clear on that..

Chronus getting +1LD is kind of stupid considering all vehicles are LD10 for whatever may cause a vehicle take a leadership test


----------



## Zion

redmapa said:


> So is it the Sword of the High Marshalls that give +d3 attacks to Helbrecht (same as now) or the 'legacy of dorn' special rule? 40kradio wasnt very clear on that..


Having re-listened to it I THINK they mean that they sword has the rule "Legacy of Dorn" which gives the +d3 attacks.



redmapa said:


> Chronus giving +1LD is kind of stupid considering all vehicles are LD10 for whatever may cause a vehicle take a leadership test


If his tank is wrecked or explodes he has a chance to hop out of the tank so it matters there for that pinning check I think.

EDIT: He's also an Independent Character too.


----------



## loki619

now this might kick off a little bit but having all the 6th edition codex so far ether myself or with friends do u know think that this one is going to be very overpowering with these changers if they are all correct because the way i see it , soon it wont be warhammer 40k it will be space marine 40k


----------



## Loli

As far as I'm aware Vanilla doesn't excel at specific area, Jack of all trades, Master of none. Honestly I don't see that changing. Tau will still out shoot, Demons out combat etc. I don't see units changing too much. Maybe in a month or so people will find out mixing the traits with certain units create strong combos, but that applies to most codicies. There is also a chance this codex could slaughter flyers like Tau depending how it's AA is and such, but don't see it dominating that much. 

Could and probably will be wrong though.


----------



## Zion

Loli said:


> As far as I'm aware Vanilla doesn't excel at specific area, Jack of all trades, Master of none. Honestly I don't see that changing. Tau will still out shoot, Demons out combat etc. I don't see units changing too much. Maybe in a month or so people will find out mixing the traits with certain units create strong combos, but that applies to most codicies. There is also a chance this codex could slaughter flyers like Tau depending how it's AA is and such, but don't see it dominating that much.
> 
> Could and probably will be wrong though.


Vanilla Marines will always be the Jack of all Trades, Masters of None. It's their defining trait. That said, it doesn't mean they can't win, they just can't hope to do so by trying to outshoot Tau, or out maneuver Eldar. They win through a combined arms approach, each unit supporting another with a solid plan.

It's why Marines are easy to learn (because they have a lot of easy to use things) but hard to master (because they don't REALLY have a list you can just slap down that is so easy it'll win everytime with no effort). It's something people overlook a lot honestly.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

From the looks of the "rumored" new rules and the minor tweaks to points costs, all that is happening is that you will probably see a bit more variety out of C:SM lists. Some rarely taken units will be more likely to be chosen and some rules like the return of the 5 man w/ special weapon tac squad is a welcome return to older editions of the rules. The CT rules actually removes one of the cheesiest mechanisms the SM have right now (the run away when we want rule) in exchange for specific playstyles. Even the "twin-linked" marines are still a low body count model firing a basic bolter...nothing as scary as a massed fire warrior gun line. SM will still be a solid army for anyone to pick up, but just won't excel at any one area of the game.


----------



## Zion

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marine-covers-revealed.html

Codex Covers by the way of /tg/.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Oh man! That codex is bad ass! The limited ed ones are awesome too!! Going to be hard choosing the one I want!


----------



## Doelago

*HOLY SH*T* :shok: 

Saddest part of this is that the regular cover art is so much better than all of the rest combined that I am suddenly wondering whatever I will even be ordering any of the limited editions.


----------



## jams

I'm very impressed with the standard edition cover art. The limited editions are a bit meh


----------



## Loli

Doelago said:


> *HOLY SH*T* :shok:
> 
> Saddest part of this is that the regular cover art is so much better than all of the rest combined that I am suddenly wondering whatever I will even be ordering any of the limited editions.


Agreed. I was going to get the Iron Hands version to show my support for my beloved chapter. But now I'm not sure especially regarding the price. But maybe in the end I'll cave. Still like them all.


----------



## Waizer

Doelago said:


> *HOLY SH*T* :shok:
> 
> Saddest part of this is that the regular cover art is so much better than all of the rest combined that I am suddenly wondering whatever I will even be ordering any of the limited editions.


Totally agree. Makes my decision easy about which codex to buy.... standard it is


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I like the fists and hands ones, show the marines in proper firing stances, quite dynamic. Though the plain back ground is a let down.

Should get our teaser tomorrow.


----------



## Loli

Anyone know how much LEs cost? I'll probably get the Iron Hands one assuming it's affordable. The more I look at it I think the Sallies and Iron Hands are among the best of the limited ones though. They show off the unique thing those chapters do. Iron Hands - Bionics. Salamanders - Flamers. BT is nice though honestly I don't get what the other chapters sigils are doing on it, surely that's more fitting of Deathwatch or am I missing something?


----------



## projectda

I'm going for IH. Theyer my chapter I use on the table.


----------



## Asamodai

The LE covers are a bit disappointing if you ask me, especially when compared to the standard cover. In their own right they're nice images but they lack character. Why doesn't the Raven Guard have a jump pack and lightning claws? Why is the White Scar not on a bike? I know not all members of these chapters I like this but you'd think for cover art they would use a quintessential member of the chapter rather than a generic one. 

Maybe they're saving that for supplement codexes.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Wow...exciting...*yawn*


----------



## Bindi Baji

Stella Cadente said:


> Wow...exciting...*yawn*


try vitamin D or B-12, that should help you stay awake, 
if you feel tired when excited then maybe you have a vitamin deficiency :grin:


----------



## Jacobite

Asamodai said:


> The LE covers are a bit disappointing if you ask me, especially when compared to the standard cover. In their own right they're nice images but they lack character. Why doesn't the Raven Guard have a jump pack and lightning claws? Why is the White Scar not on a bike? I know not all members of these chapters I like this but you'd think for cover art they would use a quintessential member of the chapter rather than a generic one.


+1 to that. The Salamanders and Iron Hands I get but the Scars and Raven's?


----------



## Zion

Someone spilled the beans on the Strikeforce from the WD, and someone else did a price analysis:



> So Strike Force is $225 USD for:
> 1x Multipart Captain $22.25
> 1x 5-man Command Squad $35
> 2x 10-man Tactical Squads (I assume the new one) $40 each so $80
> 1x 5-man Scout Squad (sniper scouts?) $25
> 1x 5-man Assault Squad $33
> 1x Venerable Dreadnought $46.25
> 1x Drop Pod $37.25
> 1x Razorback $41.25
> 
> 39 models retail of $320. Seems like about 30% off.


Mind you, that's current prices, but if the more expensive stuff goes in there the savings on the box go up.


----------



## Zion

And on another note: 
From 40k Radio:



> Two things to clarify from stuff I am seeing pop up
> -Yes Sicarius still has Rites of Battle
> -And no Melta Weapons are not in the Flame Weapon category...not quite sure where this train of thought came from


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp

Teaser is up!


----------



## Loli

Took long enough


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Lol, it did. It's also fantastically underwhelming. The Tau one was cool and i was all like "yeah! That's cool!" But this one is a bit meh and I was like "this is a bit Meh".


----------



## Zion

The White Dwarf has some leaks.

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/september-2013-white-dwarf.html


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Umm... TWG isn't going to get a C&D from GW for those pages... is it?


----------



## Zion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Umm... TWG isn't going to get a C&D from GW for those pages... is it?


We aren't the original source (thanks China!) and by the time I posted them they'd been posted several times elsewhere. Dakka has a link to the Chinese site that is several hours before the time I posted.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Ah, ok. Just wanted to make sure that site wasn't going to see any trouble.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

No we're just on the band wagon.


----------



## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> No we're just on the band wagon.


And as long as we're not driving we're not responsible for the way it drunkenly weaves through traffic!


----------



## Entarion

Very disappointed with Strike Force  But maybe this was expected.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Ooooooo! Erebus looks bad ass. 

Looks like I will have to get this WD!


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Entarion said:


> Very disappointed with Strike Force  But maybe this was expected.


Why? I'm curious, not critical. The Strike Force is an easy way to buy into the game and fill the FOC right away with required units. Honestly, we could have predicted the Captain, Command Squad, and two tactical squads based off past Strike Forces. The Dreadnought and Drop Pod are a bit unexpected, I would've thought there would've been more transports. But that's still an awesome combo.


----------



## bitsandkits

Zion said:


> The White Dwarf has some leaks.
> 
> http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/september-2013-white-dwarf.html


are we only posting new photos on TW now? shall we just close down HO and ship us all over lock stock and barrel?


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> are we only posting new photos on TW now? shall we just close down HO and ship us all over lock stock and barrel?


Bits, I'm taking college classes all day. I only really have time to post on one or the other. The roll-up will get updated this weekend when I have more time to work with. If you don't like it, fine, but don't bitch about something you're getting for free: namely my time and effort to share stuff with you when I post it.


----------



## Entarion

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Why? I'm curious, not critical. The Strike Force is an easy way to buy into the game and fill the FOC right away with required units. Honestly, we could have predicted the Captain, Command Squad, and two tactical squads based off past Strike Forces. The Dreadnought and Drop Pod are a bit unexpected, I would've thought there would've been more transports. But that's still an awesome combo.


I own Megaforce already so nothing really "must have" in this box. But it was stupid of me to think they include more new models in it with discount. Anyway If there was LR, LS, some bikes and Vindi, I'd take it. 
Doesn't mean it is bad box. It is actually suprisngly good for new players though.


----------



## iamtheeviltwin

Entarion said:


> It is actually suprisngly good for new players though.


This was my thought. Not a great deal for existing SM players, but it is a decent core force for a new player and that is a decent $$ cut for models that most players will use regularly.


----------



## Djinn24

Price list, it's small and blurry but if you look towards the bottom there is a 1 click deal for an entire fucking chapter for just shy of €10k.


----------



## Zion

Thanks to Djinn's tip there I found some images to go with it, and have a _slightly_ larger one over on TWG: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/space-marine-product-leaks.html

Thanks for the info Djinn!


----------



## GrizBe

What I noticed on that list where the sprays... Mephiston Red, Caliban Green, Maggragge Blue and The Fang. A return of the coloured basecoat sprays like they used to have years ago?


----------



## Entarion

Zion said:


> Thanks to Djinn's tip there I found some images to go with it, and have a _slightly_ larger one over on TWG: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/space-marine-product-leaks.html


As I thought SM Reclusiam Command Squad is old models with new chaplain. But 40€ for sternguard..wow..fortunately I won't buy antyhing from GW for a few years after this order.
Actually, old prices in $ are wrong as veterans were for 40$ and that would be pretty cheap


----------



## Doelago

GrizBe said:


> What I noticed on that list where the sprays... Mephiston Red, Caliban Green, Maggragge Blue and The Fang. A return of the coloured basecoat sprays like they used to have years ago?


Hopefully. Still got a spray cans worth of Ultramarines Blue Spray hanging around.  

Also, One Click Chapter Bundle. :rofl:


----------



## Djinn24

Son of a bitch, I could have grabbed those to but I figured they were already up. One day I will trip that magic number of rumors and get another shiney for my collection!


----------



## Djinn24

Those alternate covers seem to be add one to the standard codex at €5 each and not a redesigned codex. So book covers?


----------



## Doelago

Just me or has the Tactical Squad box been removed from Games Workshops website?


----------



## kickboxerdog

Doelago said:


> Just me or has the Tactical Squad box been removed from Games Workshops website?


yep looks that way, must be in preparation for the new tactical box up for preorder on sat.


----------



## Zion

djinn24 said:


> Son of a bitch, I could have grabbed those to but I figured they were already up. One day I will trip that magic number of rumors and get another shiney for my collection!


Don't feel too bad, your info was still good, and it revealed more stuff. That's never a bad thing.



Doelago said:


> Just me or has the Tactical Squad box been removed from Games Workshops website?


They may have run out of the old kit from which ever distribution center you're ordering from. Other countries likely still have it in stock.


----------



## Waizer

no tactical marine boxes avail on GW UK site, only combat quad box available.

looks like they're gearing up for the new boxes


----------



## ntaw

Not on the Canadian site either! Vanguard and Sternguard are gone as well.


----------



## Zion

So I decided to email FW, and played a little coy about the release to get some info out of them:

Q: I just saw the teaser video on the GW site showing that there are Space Marines coming. Does this mean we can expect an update for the Badab War characters?
A: We plan to review all of the Badab Chacaters once the Space Marine Codex has been released. However, we don't have a specific time frame for this so please accept our apologies.

So will be an FAQ (as is expected), they just don't have a planned release for it just yet.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Haha just shy of 10k for a chapter. I wonder if anyone actually buys that?? 

Interesting to see we may be getting colour spray paints again. Bet GW are losing a lot of potential money to people like army painter.

It's funny. If they had come out a year ago I'd have jumped at them. Now, prefer to paint myself over a black or white coat, think it looks better too.


----------



## ntaw

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Now, prefer to paint myself over a black or white coat, think it looks better too.


But you can spray it black or white and then spray your first coat of colour as well. Even if I don't use it on the standard mini I would for sure use that on vehicles.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Then you have to go back and re blacken anything not supposed to be the colour. That can take ages. Plus a 2nd layer of spray after a undercoat can look thick.

Vehicles however, yeah I'm with you there.


----------



## Djinn24

If two layers of spray paint makes it look thick, you need to reevaluate how you primer. Also GW had color sprays waaaaaaay before Army Painter had theirs. Seems as if you know this but shocking how many people don't and are saying GW is copying Army Painter.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Oh yeah I know. I used to thrive off the blood red spray! 

But then they binned it and lost out!!

I could be doing something wrong. But when I spray a space marine black and then blue and then I re blacken the chest eagle or soft armour that's at least 2 coats of paint i don't need on there!!

Still..... I may look into them for some Nids at some point.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Double post deleted by the Inquisiton. Alpha legion taint suspected. Avert your eyes and pray to the emperor.


----------



## Djinn24

That's the bonus to airbrushing. I have gotten into the habit of even primering the model with it. You can get pretty much any color you want.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Yeah I need to look into air brushes to be honest. A lot more accurate. Any you recommend?

Also. 2 Days to WD! May actually purchase this one for the Bat Rep. See how the Templars roll.


----------



## Djinn24

All depends how much you want to spend. When you're ready start a new thread.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

Got a sneaky peak at a copy of WD tonight. Holy shit, but that stuff is expensive. It looks like the new chaplain model comes as part of a box that includes a razorback, command squad and the chappie, all for €76. Fuck that. €35 for the v/guard and s/guard. A bit steep for 5 models, but the S/guard box has 16 heads, 8 combi weapons, a heavy flamer and a few other bits. The v/guard box has 4 sets of LCs, same of TH and SS, various bolt, plasma and grav pistols, fancy power sword. The captain and libbie are €25 each. Not seeing me buying too much of this release at all.


----------



## Tawa

I've still got a can each of the Blue, Red & Green somewhere :laugh:


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

A local Hobby store still has Goblin Green from years back, not sold and still sitting in a back room. Surprisingly, they won't sell them... weird.


----------



## redmapa

The only things Im buying are the vanguard for the power weapons and to make them into an honour guard and the centurion devastators but that may change after I get the codex and see what I have and what the new entries are exactly


----------



## Zion

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/08/codex-space-marines-roll-up-special_29.html I've compiled 40k Radio's latest podcast for easy reading!


----------



## Entarion

Doelago said:


> Just me or has the Tactical Squad box been removed from Games Workshops website?


Along with van and stern veterans. Hopefully, managed to get old resin vans from Wayland.


----------



## Kobrakai

Thankfully I got paid on the 28th... looks like i'll need the whole lot!


----------



## Jacobite

Doelago said:


> Just me or has the Tactical Squad box been removed from Games Workshops website?


Don't worry I'm sure it's just a technical glitch in the site and they will be back up in a few days, it's not an indication of new minis at all. No Sir.


----------



## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> Don't worry I'm sure it's just a technical glitch in the site and they will be back up in a few days, it's not an indication of new minis at all. No Sir.


Thanks for clearing that up Jac :wink:


----------



## Jacobite

What I'm here for mate :victory:


----------



## Tawa

I'm interested to see how the book is going to be less Smurf-tastic.

The cover has a Smurf of it, and the character list still looks the same. I.e. Smurf-tastic.


Not bitching, just curious.


----------



## Jacobite

Well lets face it, the only way it could get more smurftastic than the last one is to have Marnus Calgar on the cover getting Eifel Towered by Papa Smurf and Hefty Smurf.


----------



## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> Well lets face it, the only way it could get more smurftastic than the last one is to have Marnus Calgar on the cover getting Eifel Towered by Papa Smurf and Hefty Smurf.


I'd pay to see that on the 'dex cover :laugh:


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Paid today. WD and preorders should be this weekend  time to get my shiny new book!!


----------



## Doelago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r68S2Tmwhu0#t=38

Warzone: Damnos at the end of the "trailer".


----------



## Zion

Doelago said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r68S2Tmwhu0#t=38
> 
> Warzone: Damnos at the end of the "trailer".


Warzone Damos wasn't a surprise honestly. We'd been exoecting it since Apoc after all.


----------



## Doelago

But we had not yet seen the cover, no?


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

Tawa said:


> I'm interested to see how the book is going to be less Smurf-tastic.
> 
> The cover has a Smurf of it, and the character list still looks the same. I.e. Smurf-tastic.
> 
> 
> Not bitching, just curious.


I've never really understood why this is an issue. It's always been the Ultramarines' codex, going back to 1995, and nobody complains that the Spwolves, Dangels and Blangels get their own codex books. Heck, the Blangels are less divergent from C:SM than the Black Templars were, lol.

But heaven forbid the Ultramarines are the star of a show, that's a travesty. :wink:


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Vet; it's more the blatant fanboyism in the last dex that pisses people off.

Comments like "though other chapters can never be ultramarines for they do not share the same genetic father they strive to uphold the ideas of robute"

As If the white scars and raven guard cry themself to sleep because Guilliman isn't their dad and wish they could be ultramarines.

And other gems. Such as Clagars one to one bitch slap of an avatar.

Oh and there is the "greatest of them all are the ultramarines" quote.

It's sort of a , get over yourself FFS!!!


----------



## Jacobite

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Quoted for the thruth


This^ 100 times this. Also it may have been Codex Ultramarines in 2nd edition but it's not supposed to be now. It's Codex SPACE Marines, if I wanted to read about how awesome the Blood Angels were I read Codex BA, same with SW's etc 

I realise that GW has to have a flagship chapter, that's fine, what'd be really great is if they didn't try to make that flagship chapter the supposed be all and end all, and if they do if they could do it in such a way where it's not "WE IS UBERR AWESME AT EVRYTING ND EVRY ODA MRINE WANTS TO B UZ". The Smurfs are based on the Romans and the Greeks so why not go down the path of make them a highly disciplined force of warriors excelling at unit tactics. Juluis Ceaser wasn't one of the best generals of all time because he went around punching the Goth generals in the face, he sat back and directed his forces so he didn't need to.

Every other Marine Chapter wants to be an Ultramarine... try telling that to this guy:


----------



## Asamodai

That picture makes me want to collect Minotaurs.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I wonder what my Warmongers should be now, I don't want Imperial Fists and Ultramarines may be to bland.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

That sounds Iron Hands to me bro.

Isn't there a chaos renegade chapter by that name?


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Nah it's a loyalist chapter, there may be a renegade titan legion with the same name though I think


----------



## Kobrakai

Well everything for SM is up on Games workshop site, and the site has crashed?

Must be such a wave of people getting onto the site, crazy times!


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

But I ask again. If the BA, DA, & SW have their own Codex, why get mad when the Ultramarines do?


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

Okay, I take no credit for these. These all come from Shaun Carlin on B&C> He might well have stolen them too, but hey, I'll cite _my_ source, lol.


----------



## Veteran Sergeant




----------



## Veteran Sergeant




----------



## Jacobite

Veteran Sergeant said:


> But I ask again. If the BA, DA, & SW have their own Codex, why get mad when the Ultramarines do?


I won't get mad when Ultramarines have their own Codex when it's called Codex: Ultramarines, not Codex Space Marines. Shove all the wanky Smurf love in it you want for all I care. Codex Space Marines should be about *all* the chapters that don't have a specific dex, not just one with some other's thrown in here and there.

Nice grabs from the GW Website Vet!

Just seen the price for the Limited Edition Codex's. 230NZD? You've got to be fucking kidding me!


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

No problem. I figure people can see them here since the GW site is a mess right now. 


I dunno. I've just always realized it was renamed C:SM because that was easier for new players to identify than Codex: Ultramarines. No confusion about what was the "basic" Space Marine book, or if there was one, etc. Purely a marketing decision. 

The reality is that the fluff has stayed Ultramarines (especially in 4th Ed), and the painting guides have been Ultramarines, and the Ultramarines are _the_ Codex Chapter. What it's called has been somewhat irrelevant. There's a Big Four in 40K. BA, DA, SW, and UM, and it's been that way for almost 20 years. It's not that the other Chapters are less. 

But if you chose an SM chapter that wasn't one of the Big Four, you accepted you were choosing one of "Those Other Guys" in Codex: Space Marines, Starring the Ultramarines, With Appearances By Those Other Guys.


----------



## Jacobite

3rd Edition Codex wasn't UM centric if I recall, Crimson Fists on the cover, yes it had 2 UM special characters but that's about it. The painting guides, example minis I think were a pretty good mix of various chapters. Fluffwise it wasn't a hard on for the boys in blue.

Even if GW site wasn't playing silly buggers it's nicer to see all the things here in one easy scroll down.


----------



## ntaw

Whoa. Crisp pics.


----------



## Zion

Veteran Sergeant said:


> No problem. I figure people can see them here since the GW site is a mess right now.
> 
> 
> I dunno. I've just always realized it was renamed C:SM because that was easier for new players to identify than Codex: Ultramarines. No confusion about what was the "basic" Space Marine book, or if there was one, etc. Purely a marketing decision.
> 
> The reality is that the fluff has stayed Ultramarines (especially in 4th Ed), and the painting guides have been Ultramarines, and the Ultramarines are _the_ Codex Chapter. What it's called has been somewhat irrelevant. There's a Big Four in 40K. BA, DA, SW, and UM, and it's been that way for almost 20 years. It's not that the other Chapters are less.
> 
> But if you chose an SM chapter that wasn't one of the Big Four, you accepted you were choosing one of "Those Other Guys" in Codex: Space Marines, Starring the Ultramarines, With Appearances By Those Other Guys.


Painting guide in the WD goes (in order of detail): Ultramarines, Black Templars, everyone else.


----------



## The_Werewolf_Arngeirr

why does it not suprise me, the space marines get a dedicated anti aircraft tank.

Chaos did not really get anything for anti aircraft, I dont recall any being in the tau codex when I read it too, but the mareens get one with a new kit at that.


----------



## Zion

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> why does it not suprise me, the space marines get a dedicated anti aircraft tank.
> 
> Chaos did not really get anything for anti aircraft, I dont recall any being in the tau codex when I read it too, but the mareens get one with a new kit at that.


You do know that Tau have a piece of wargear that gives them Skyfire right? And that the Heldrake can hit other flyers on their side armor at S7 without allowing cover saves?

What Marines got where more variety. They represent most of the armies in the entire game and the book has taken lengths to (attempt at least) to provide the army with different tools to handle jobs so armies don't end up being cookie cutters of each other.

Also, those new tanks don't have Interceptor. Marines got NO new options with Interceptor in fact for their anti-air.


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

Jacobite said:


> The painting guides, example minis I think were a pretty good mix of various chapters.


Nah, it's literally titled "How to paint an Ultramarine". 
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=62&pictureid=378

There was no real fluff in most of the 3rd Ed books, just a handful of short short stories since they were rushed to compensate for the fact that 3rd & 2nd were totally incompatible, but you're right that it had that ugly ripoff of the old RT Crimson Fists on the cover, lol. However more than half the pictures in it are of Ultramarines.


----------



## Veteran Sergeant

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr said:


> why does it not suprise me, the space marines get a dedicated anti aircraft tank.
> 
> Chaos did not really get anything for anti aircraft, I dont recall any being in the tau codex when I read it too, but the mareens get one with a new kit at that.


I think you're looking in the wrong place if you want to complain about codex favoritism. Just like the Chaos Marines, Space Marines have been hit squaw in the face by the power armor nerf bat. The Tau were issued a Win-Button codex with a giant rape-train robot. A underwhelming AA tank that doesn't have Interceptor is hardly some kind of gift from on high. There's still a lot of debate about whether or not it's even any better than just taking the quad gun.


----------



## Arcticor

pre orders!!!


----------



## Doelago

GW seem to have gone mad and are giving away a totally legit paint guide for free. 

How to Paint Citadel Miniatures: Tactical Marines


----------



## xenobiotic

Hm, a release that will make me want to continue my pre-heresy Night Lords and my Brethren. Now I just need to free up about 200£ as well as save up another 300£ for the Games Day releases... As if I even have time for this...


----------



## Zion

xenobiotic said:


> Hm, a release that will make me want to continue my pre-heresy Night Lords and my Brethren. Now I just need to free up about 200£ as well as save up another 300£ for the Games Day releases... As if I even have time for this...


I feel your pain. My army project is mostly FW myself. Even the tanks! Yeah, I've gained Hatred AND Preferred Enemy: Wallet lately.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Words_of_Truth said:


> Nah it's a loyalist chapter, there may be a renegade titan legion with the same name though I think


Ah yea that's the one :-D **** name though.

Edit: Holy shit! That's a bad typo! I said cool!


----------



## xenobiotic

Zion said:


> I feel your pain. My army project is mostly FW myself. Even the tanks! Yeah, I've gained Hatred AND Preferred Enemy: Wallet lately.


Indeed, luckily the wallet is only magic numbers on a computer screen these days. I have mostly infantry thus far (about 100 marines/terminators from FW) but I'm branching into tanks as soon as the next book hits the shelves... 

I see potential for a lot of the plastic pieces in these new boxes even for a Pre-heresy/Heresy era army, it's just that there's still a lot of pieces that won't fit, mostly the newer armour marks (legs/torsos/helmets) - kind of a waste not to use them for something, right?

I'm pretty much forced to make my Pre-Heresy army playable with the SM codex anyway because my friends aren't all that keen on playing the Heresy list all the time.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

GW site is reeeeeeeeealllllyyyy slow! Guess it's getting a lot of traffic at the mo! I have made it to the front page in about 25mins. Cant get past that! I just want a codex!


----------



## Asamodai

These new kits look great. Lots of variation. Was cool seeing the new pictures with the Salamander stern guard etc. so thanks for those. I'm even liking the look of the Librarian now. I was worried he'd be hard to alter but it looks like a head and arms swap will be easy.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

The biggest surprise for me is that they weren't ready for the sheer volume of traffic on the site that even the dumbest gamer could have anticipated for the preorders. I know even the best and biggest sites will have problems if the volume of traffic is large enough, but it appears to have collapsed completely. I haven't been able to get on at all in the last 2 hours. "This web page is unavailable."


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I'm still trying to get on. I just want a simple codex. Just the standard one. I don't want any minis. No limited ed stuff. Just a codex.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> I'm still trying to get on. I just want a simple codex. Just the standard one. I don't want any minis. No limited ed stuff. Just a codex.


You forgot to end that with "For now."


----------



## Bayonet

Wow GWs site is spanking in alot today. I bet they're rubbing their hands together in anticipation of the metric fuck-ton of cash that's coming their way!


----------



## GrizBe

Bayonet said:


> Wow GWs site is spanking in alot today. I bet they're rubbing their hands together in anticipation of the metric fuck-ton of cash that's coming their way!


You mean that would be coming their way if anyone could get onto the site....


----------



## Stella Cadente

Although at the end of all this they might wonder why not a single box of centurions haven't sold


----------



## bitsandkits

Stella Cadente said:


> Although at the end of all this they might wonder why not a single box of centurions haven't sold


As much you would love that to be the case its far more likely they will sell out,they may well be one of the most illconceived ideas gw has thrown out into the 40k world but nothing get a space marine player hard like more power armour,suck it up, they are here and they are....er centurians power extreme !


----------



## Old Man78

Please do not mention centurions, it gets my rant o meter going into the red, I HATE THEM arrrggggghhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Zion

Oldman78 said:


> Please do not mention centurions, it gets my rant o meter going into the red, I HATE THEM arrrggggghhhhhhhhhh


What about the Black Templar Centurions in the battle report? 

So the iPad version has an Army Builder built in:










EDIT 2: And here it is with me pointing out the spelling errors:


----------



## March of Time

Oldman78 said:


> Please do not mention centurions, it gets my rant o meter going into the red, I HATE THEM arrrggggghhhhhhhhhh


centurions,centurions,centurions,centurions,centurions :laugh:


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I'm still thinking of ways to make my version of centurions, maybe something based on Terminators with shoulder mouned heavy weapons like broad sides.


----------



## GrizBe

Centurions?


----------



## Zion

GrizBe said:


> Centurions?


Only 3 weeks late on getting in on that joke while it was fresh Griz. 

EDIT: 40k Radio must be tired of answering my questions because they ignored mine, but here are ones they did answer:



> Q: What does the Auspex do?
> A: Instead of shooting the model can reduce the cover save of a unit by 1, range 12".
> 
> Q: Who can take an Auspex?
> A: Anyone who can take Special Issue Wargear
> 
> Q: What's the range for the Primarch's Wrath bolter?
> A: 24"
> 
> Q: The Relic armor, what kind of armor is it exactly?
> A: Artificer armor
> 
> Q: How many bikes can take special weapons? Is it 1 in 5?
> A: Up to 2 models.
> 
> Q: Since you didn't mention Storm Shields for Chapter Masters and Captains, I am assuming they are still available at the same price as before as well?
> A: SS are the same
> 
> Q: Also, are Storm Shields available for Libbies in power armour too now (at 10 pts per)?
> A: Librarians only get it in Termie armor
> Follow-up: You could always take the Chapter Relic SS.
> 
> Q: Can chapter masters and captains take relic blades and can they take them with terminator armor?
> A: Yes, the option is in their profile, but Terminator armor Captains and Chapter Masters do not have access to Relic Blades.
> 
> Q: What's the limit on Relics?
> A: Only one of each per army.
> 
> Q: Did I hear you right? The captain comes in artificer armor? Or does it the option for it?
> A: He has the option to buy it for 20 points.
> 
> Q: So I can take 2 relics on one character?
> A: Yes, but it'll be pricey.
> 
> Q: If I'm playing Black Templars, do I have to take an Emperor's Champion?
> A: No, the Emperor's Champion is not mandatory.


----------



## Tawa

Jacobite said:


> I won't get mad when Ultramarines have their own Codex when it's called Codex: Ultramarines, not Codex Space Marines. Shove all the wanky Smurf love in it you want for all I care. Codex Space Marines should be about *all* the chapters that don't have a specific dex, not just one with some other's thrown in here and there.


This. A thousand times this!



GrizBe said:


> You mean that would be coming their way if anyone could get onto the site....


:laugh:


----------



## Khorne's Fist

12 hours on and the site is still down. Someone really dropped the ball on this one. Interesting to see if any heads roll for it.


----------



## Zion

Khorne's Fist said:


> 12 hours on and the site is still down. Someone really dropped the ball on this one. Interesting to see if any heads roll for it.


The site is up, sort of, but good luck getting in. And really this isn't as bad as when the last Sim City game (with it's always online requirement). People were having trouble getting in for about a week!

EDIT: Someone at a GW made an interesting connection:










I got to admit the resemblance is kinda there. Especially with the CPT Titus-esk head.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

It is so blatantly him. Same studs on his head and the same scar lol. Awesome.


----------



## projectda

Anyone want to place a order might be able to now. I was able to now. Took 20mins to get in then the last 2 mins it was loading well for me.


----------



## GrizBe

Seems to be semi behaving now. Still laggy, but its at least useable.


----------



## ntaw

Holy nuts, anyone notice the sweet as fuck plastic combi weapons that they've done for the Tactical Squad box? 

.....AND THE TWO OF EACH IN THE STERNGUARD BOX?!?!


I am content.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I dunno if it's worth even getting any of the new stuff, aside from the anti air stuff. I already got around 2k worth and doubt I'll need any more. What do you guys do, do you stop at a points level or keep buying stuff for your army?


----------



## Jacobite

I stop when it's thematically it's "done" so for me with my Minotaurs I still need to buy 20 Tartaros Terminators, Hectan Aceros, 6 drop pods, 1 Storm Talon, 5 Deathshroud and either a Storm Eagle or Ceastus, 2 rhinos, 1 razorback and 3 preds. And if FW ever puts out a Corvus Recon squad I'll be getting that.

So yeah none of the new releases are really any good for me.


----------



## ntaw

Words_of_Truth said:


> What do you guys do, do you stop at a points level or keep buying stuff for your army?


I have about 6k in BA and counting. I'll be nabbing some Sternguard and Vanguard and kit bashing them with DC kits to make some sweet new veteran squads for my army....it will never be finished. With my Deathwing and Necron armies I will stop at 1.5/2k each depending on how I've filled out what I have in my head for those lists model wise.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Yeah, I'm doing a salamander crusade army, so I guess I'll only add the bare minimum of the new stuff and focus the rest on my salamanders.


----------



## projectda

Id like to get up to 10k points over time. To have a IH clan. My other armies might not get so big. Tau I'm thinking of 6k. DE I've lost some of them, but id like to get a good amount.


----------



## Orochi

Man, that's a lot of (at first glance) overpowered crap.

I nearly vomited when I saw the price of the Captain and Libby.


----------



## ntaw

Orochi said:


> I nearly vomited when I saw the price of the Captain and Libby.


Considering they're one pose pieces with little to no malleability without a knife...I didn't quite gag per se, but I certainly moved on.


----------



## Straken's_Fist

Words_of_Truth said:


> What do you guys do, do you stop at a points level or keep buying stuff for your army?


Basically I stop when I feel I have enough models to play several different styles of list. 
I used to just want to aim to collect everything, but realise now that is just impossible and pointless. Impossible because I am not a millionaire (even with my ebay/paint stripping to keep costs down), pointless because even if I could afford everything I would never have time to paint it. 
So I try to keep to limitations: But that is admittedly a challenge sometimes, as all too often 'side-projects' can turn into another 5000pt army. Example: I felt I had reached completion of my Guard army (felt I had played every style and list that I could enjoy), so wanted a couple of 'side projects' to mix things up: One was to collect a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons army. But now i've become full-time Chaos and have basically amassed 3000pts within half a year. I think that is mainly down to the Chaos codex allowing so much creativity and variation...On the other hand, my other side project has remained a side-project and I am happy keeping it so: Dark Angels Deathwing-Ravenwing. 

Finally, there is Blood Angels: I 'accidentally' ended up with a 4000pt army after a mate sold me his entire 40k collection. I sold what I didn't want until I broke even. Was gonna sell the rest, but for now just happy I got 4000pt army essentially for free and actually they make great allies to my Deathwing and find them really fun from a purely gaming side of things. So keeping hold of them.

This is gonna be my last army though. 4 large armies is enough IMO. It is pointless collecting any more because I will never have time to give them attention and play them enough to justify the time/cost...Also I am going to start with Malifaux, Warmachine and Dystopian Wars soon...So I am done after I have finished my Chaos.


----------



## Jacobite

ntaw said:


> Considering they're one pose pieces with little to no malleability without a knife...I didn't quite gag per se, but I certainly moved on.


The Captain is simply a resculpt of the AOBR Captain, and that mini's not exactly a tower of beauty or dynamic posing. They've changed the head, the gun, some parts of the cloak and a couple of bits of bling but it's very obvious what it's based on. NOT worth $40 NZD at all. You can do far better with either of the Veteran boxes and a sloths dose of immagination.

The Libby despite looking like he is using his force staff to keep away a slightly drunk zombie is at least a fresh sculpt. The FFB (Fat Flying Baby) on his shoulder is the worst part of the sculpt, while it's not something I'm going to drop 40 NZD on either, it's a darn sight better than that Captain. Again you could come up with something better with the veteran boxes though.


----------



## Zion

Jacobite said:


> The Captain is simply a resculpt of the AOBR Captain, and that mini's not exactly a tower of beauty or dynamic posing. They've changed the head, the gun, some parts of the cloak and a couple of bits of bling but it's very obvious what it's based on. NOT worth $40 NZD at all. You can do far better with either of the Veteran boxes and a sloths dose of immagination.
> 
> The Libby despite looking like he is using his force staff to keep away a slightly drunk zombie is at least a fresh sculpt. The FFB (Fat Flying Baby) on his shoulder is the worst part of the sculpt, while it's not something I'm going to drop 40 NZD on either, it's a darn sight better than that Captain. Again you could come up with something better with the veteran boxes though.


Looking at the sprue images the cherub-servitor is a seperate bit. I'm thinking of getting one, or at least his icon'd shoulder pad to make a press mold out of for my Exorcist Marines. It's -perfect- for what I want and would save me some sculpting.


----------



## Jacobite

That is true Z, that'd be gold for you. I hadn't put the two together.

Nice to see some alternative armour Mk torso's sneaking into the tactical squads as well.


----------



## Zion

Jacobite said:


> That is true Z, that'd be gold for you. I hadn't put the two together.
> 
> Nice to see some alternative armour Mk torso's sneaking into the tactical squads as well.


I was planning on sculpting the icon and then press molding it, but I like the look of that one, and it rules out the possibility that I might not be able to nail the look.

Plus he's a nice kit. He easily looks like he's shooting mind bullets.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Of course we would never make a press mould of someone else's sculpt


----------



## ntaw

Magpie_Oz said:


> Of course we would never make a press mould of someone else's sculpt


Of course not. Nor a liquid silicone one either. :nono:


----------



## Zion

Magpie_Oz said:


> Of course we would never make a press mould of someone else's sculpt


I would, but only for personal, not for trade or sale, use. And I have no intent on trading, selling or even giving away on a whim any of the ones I make.

It's the same thing as just buying a 107 of them from a bits seller, only I'm not funding bits sellers this way.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Magpie_Oz said:


> Of course we would never make a press mould of someone else's sculpt


I dunno, I want to press mold 150 krieg lasguns, backpacks and various equipment bits to convert 120 Perry Austrians


----------



## bitsandkits

normally i can usually defend GWs pricing but £18 for a plastic libby or captain???? the price isnt so much the issue as the fact that you can still buy the resin ones for £9.50, or the multipart captain for £14???? absolutely bat shit crazy ass pricing, the limited edition chaplain from dark vengeance only topped out at about £15 and he was limited in number.
the warhammer fantasy equivalent model in the empire army is £9!!!!, exactly half the price, it decisions like this that make people say "nah fuck you GW i aint buying that i will just make my own"


----------



## Stella Cadente

Even all the FW HQ's are cheaper


----------



## Firewolf

>> Makes me glad i'm a Space wolves player. The prices are fukin rediculon! £35 for dex ok as its bigger than other codex's, but £70 for the collectors is a jip, twice the price cos you get a different front cover and a shiney bookmark ribbon thing, aye!!!:shok:


----------



## Jacobite

Stella Cadente said:


> Even all the FW HQ's are cheaper


Jesus wept, I didn't notice that and which would you take? Somebodies smoking some serious crack in Head Office.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Jacobite said:


> Somebodies smoking some serious crack in Head Office.


That would be that cashing in on the popularity of the new release you were suggesting earlier I think.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Worried FW may massively increase their prices now. :/


----------



## Stella Cadente

Jacobite said:


> Jesus wept, I didn't notice that and which would you take? Somebodies smoking some serious crack in Head Office.


If I was buying a captain this guy
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...ccessories/SPACE_MARINE_MkIV_COMMAND_SET.html
Ok it is more, but you get the banner guy for £12.50 and going by the price GW put Kell (£15) your still making a saving in essence, and you could easily convert him

And for a Libby I'd just go with 
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...N-OF-THE-RED-SCORPIONS-WITH-HONOUR-GUARD.html
Ok so its £38, but that means in theory your getting an honour guard of resin models for £20, you can easily shave resin scorpions away, its cheaper in the long term


----------



## Barnster

Everyone baulked when the finecast ones were £15, now monopose plastic is £18? 

Have to admit, the only things in this release I think are fairly priced is the vanguards, everything else is way over

I'll consider bits ordering some combi weapons and maybe parts to make either a hunter or stalker, but I honestly don't like either modes of the tank especially considering its nearly as expensive as a land raider! If anyone has some nice ideas for potential conversions and count as let me know

I still think that FW will release combi weapons to make virtually the whole release skip-able 

Won't even address the centurions, which i personally hate, but think will be really good in the book to encourage sales


----------



## Jacobite

Magpie_Oz said:


> That would be that cashing in on the popularity of the new release you were suggesting earlier I think.


Nope cashing in would be not bothering with that Captain in particular and instead putting the resources into the Tactical and Veteran's Squads. Would you buy that Captain for that price? I wouldn't be surprised if the Libby sold out, despite the price, we all know the other releases will and Marines have never had a plastic Libby but I will be shocked if that Captain will.



Words_of_Truth said:


> Worried FW may massively increase their prices now. :/


It's only a matter of time, my money is on when the rumoured GW site update happens and FW is available through them, expect a huge price update then.



Stella Cadente said:


> Pretty FW minis


My thoughts exactly. That FW Captain blows the plastic one outa the water and the standard bearer can easily not be one. If you are going to drop that amount of money on a Command Model you'd be missing out by not buying the FW version and using both.

As for Loth, still the best Libby mini (if not SM Character) the company as a whole has ever put out. I also think his command squad shits on the new VV kit, I'd rather take them due to the far more interesting shoulder pads and bodies. Yes you do get JP's in the new kit unlike Lok CS. However even buying the JP's separately from GW it's still cheaper to buy Loth and the jump packs than it is to buy the plastic Libby and a VV (at least in NZ anyway).


----------



## Loli

The Tactical box I'm fine with its pricing because of all the options and it's still 10 men, but I'm glad I'm not really using captains, chaplains and librarians. The prices are nuts. I was going to bits make my chapter master and captains anyway, the pricing just made that's choice definite.


----------



## GrizBe

Sometimes I really think that GW's pricing policy consists of them all doing Absinthe shots then throwing pointy object off the studio roof at the minions below and adding together the results of who-ever didn't die. 

Its why prices are going up lately.. they're getting better at dodging.


----------



## Logaan

Sooo.....the new Captain model is £18.00 but an entire Marine command squad is £21.50. 

My brain cannot work this one out. There is just no correlation between products. Having seen the sprue, there really is not £18.00 worth of plastic in that model.

As Jacobite says - crack pipe pricing.


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

Yeah it is pretty mental. I think the model is boring anyway!


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

GrizBe said:


> Sometimes I really think that GW's pricing policy consists of them all doing Absinthe shots then throwing pointy object off the studio roof at the minions below and adding together the results of who-ever didn't die.
> 
> Its why prices are going up lately.. they're getting better at dodging.


I think it's more like:

"Fuck these nerds are stupid, lets see how much they bitch on the internet when we raise the prices again; then we'll go swim in our money pool, which they've kindly provided us."


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Does anyone remember what the special rule for white scar descendants were?


----------



## GrizBe

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> I think it's more like:
> 
> "Fuck these nerds are stupid, lets see how much they bitch on the internet when we raise the prices again; then we'll go swim in our money pool, which they've kindly provided us."


----------



## Straken's_Fist

Stella Cadente said:


> And for a Libby I'd just go with
> http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...N-OF-THE-RED-SCORPIONS-WITH-HONOUR-GUARD.html
> Ok so its £38, but that means in theory your getting an honour guard of resin models for £20, you can easily shave resin scorpions away, its cheaper in the long term


Incidentally, I have him for sale if you are interested.


----------



## Tawa

Let's leave out the topic of mould-making and casting shall we lads? 





Logaan said:


> Sooo.....the new Captain model is £18.00 but an entire Marine command squad is £21.50.
> 
> My brain cannot work this one out. There is just no correlation between products. Having seen the sprue, there really is not £18.00 worth of plastic in that model.
> 
> As Jacobite says - crack pipe pricing.


Yeah, but I want that Librarian! 
With a re-sculpted head if I can convince a certain friend of mine to do it for me :so_happy:


----------



## Varakir

I'm mostly excited about the multi-part sternguard, as i've been slowly trying to make my own for ages. That box will trim off a lot of time and make the results 100% better. I'm still going to wince at paying an extra £5 for half the marines though 

My main disappointment is the Chaplain, i'm not a fan of any of the power armour options at present, so i was pretty excited to see the leaked photos of the new sculpt. Then we find out that you can't get him without buying the box set, and if they do release him on his own i assume he will follow suit with the captain and the libby and clock in at 18 quid :/

At least we finally have combi weapons!


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

eBay mate. Guarantee you can find that chaplain on eBay within a few days if the release.


----------



## Tawa

Varakir said:


> My main disappointment is the Chaplain, i'm not a fan of any of the power armour options at present, so i was pretty excited to see the leaked photos of the new sculpt. Then we find out that you can't get him without buying the box set


Somebody dropped the ball with that one I think....


----------



## Bindi Baji

Tawa said:


> Somebody dropped the ball with that one I think....


The ball, the field, the whole fucking sport, what a waste...........................


----------



## Orochi

If that captain and Libby are worth £18...

I'm going to wait 2 years - my Chaplain from Dark Vengeance should be worth £300 by then?


----------



## Varakir

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> eBay mate. Guarantee you can find that chaplain on eBay within a few days if the release.


Aye, i'm sure they'll be on there in force and people will be making a tidy profit off them - it just seems like such a wasted opportunity.

When i first saw the 3 new HQ's i thought they might be packaged as a set of 3 for £25 -30 ish. I'd happily pay that just to get the chaplain - an extra captain and libby are always nice to have and it'd be decent value.


----------



## shaantitus

What the hell are the centurions supposed to be? Terminator armour does the walking tank bit but these things are just ridiculous. They are some of the most stupid looking fanboy bullshit I have ever seen. Why GW why? From a fluff perspective the imperium's technology is stagnating, where are all these new designs coming from, and why are they all blue? And $95 for three fat terminators? Fuck Right Off.


----------



## Kreuger

Well, it's how the imperium makes obliterators.

Take a terminator and insert a marine _all the way_ up its butt. 

To make them the mechanicus partnered with one of those *Fist* chapters.


----------



## Tawa

Bindi Baji said:


> The ball, the field, the whole fucking sport, what a waste...........................


There's people on the pitch! :laugh:


----------



## ntaw

Orochi said:


> I'm going to wait 2 years - my Chaplain from Dark Vengeance should be worth £300 by then?


You've diluted the market just by mentioning it.


----------



## psactionman

shaantitus said:


> What the hell are the centurions supposed to be? Terminator armour does the walking tank bit but these things are just ridiculous. They are some of the most stupid looking fanboy bullshit I have ever seen. Why GW why? From a fluff perspective the imperium's technology is stagnating, where are all these new designs coming from, and why are they all blue? And $95 for three fat terminators? Fuck Right Off.


I'm actually excited to read where the Centurians and Grav weapons came from. But, in terms of models I agree, they are some of the dumbest models I have ever seen. I like the idea behind them but someone failed in the design department.


----------



## Orochi

ntaw said:


> You've diluted the market just by mentioning it.


That's okay.

Someone once sold me a 2002 Emperor's champion - unopened - for £5 at an actual GW store.

I've had my share of luck


----------



## kickboxerdog

i really like the centurians and have ordered 2 boxs for my imperial fists oww yeah


----------



## ntaw

^ There's an apocalypse formation now that uses three squads. One more to go!


----------



## Tawa

ntaw said:


> ^ There's an apocalypse formation now that uses three squads.


That's convenient :laugh:


----------



## Orochi

shaantitus said:


> What the hell are the centurions supposed to be? Terminator armour does the walking tank bit but these things are just ridiculous. They are some of the most stupid looking fanboy bullshit I have ever seen. Why GW why? From a fluff perspective the imperium's technology is stagnating, where are all these new designs coming from, and why are they all blue? And $95 for three fat terminators? Fuck Right Off.


Pretty much this.

Probably to counter/mirror Obliterators/mutilators. 

They should release them with a singular blue sock with a nice big white U on it.


----------



## ntaw

Orochi said:


> They should release them with a singular blue sock with a nice big white U on it.


uh....I think the Ultrasock is actually intended for another use...


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

kickboxerdog said:


> i really like the centurians and have ordered 2 boxs for my imperial fists oww yeah


Well someone has to!!


----------



## Tawa

As of five minutes ago :shok:


----------



## Words_of_Truth

When is all this out, gamesday?

I think I've decided to go with White Scars for my marine's progenitor as I've had the idea of combining the space marine bikers set with the new plastic vanguard assault squad to make a kick ass command squad or something.


----------



## Achaylus72

Australian Prices for the new stuff.

Limited Release Codexes $195
Normal Codex $90
Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad (Inc Razorback) $120
Centurians $90
Stalker/Hunter $85
Sternguard $70
Vanguard $65
Tactical Squad $65
Space Marine Captain $30
Space Marine Librarian $30
Strike Force $350
Apocalypse; War Zone Damnos $48
Black Templars Lastrati Crusade $1242
Codex Space Marine 1 Click Launch Collection $650


----------



## Jacobite

Is it just me or are there no offical online pictures of the Centurions with bare heads? Only those ones from the WD?


----------



## ChaosRedCorsairLord

Achaylus72 said:


> Australian Prices for the new stuff.
> 
> Limited Release Codexes $195
> Normal Codex $90
> Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad (Inc Razorback) $120
> Centurians $90
> Stalker/Hunter $85
> Sternguard $70
> Vanguard $65
> Tactical Squad $65
> Space Marine Captain $30
> Space Marine Librarian $30
> Strike Force $350
> Apocalypse; War Zone Damnos $48
> Black Templars Lastrati Crusade $1242
> Codex Space Marine 1 Click Launch Collection $650


Wow. Those limited edition codices must be written on jesus skin paper.


----------



## Achaylus72

ChaosRedCorsairLord said:


> Wow. Those limited edition codices mush be written on jesus skin paper.


Not really compared to all other limited release stuff.


----------



## infernalcaretaker

Anyone worked out the base size on the Centurions? I have a feeling it might be 50mm...


----------



## melinore

I'd like to know if anyone has the size of the Centurions as well. I ordered a set because they look interest, but I have no idea how big they will be. I've been searching the internet, but all anyone seems to have is guesses.


----------



## Zion

GW hasn't listed the size of the bases anywhere, but they look like they're likely on a 50mm base.


----------



## Stella Cadente

GW doing 50mm bases?, unlikely, they never have
25, 40, 60


----------



## r9a9g9e

in the pre-order section their is a pic of them in the BT bundle. left of jump marines.


----------



## Barnster

I'd guess 40mm bases. They don't look much bigger than terminators, after all their just a space marine in a suit of power armour inside another suit of armour (Am I the only one who thinks this is a stupid concept?) Their definitely smaller than the 60mm dread base, but its hard to tell with no terminators to compare with 

Also @Jacobite, theres 7 Heads in the centurion box, 3 unhelmeted and 4 helmeted


I've been looking at the Stalker hunter sprue and it looks like if your not bothered about the ground clamps/ stilts (I'm certainly not) there is enough bits in the set to build both a stalker and hunter if you have a spare rhino chasis. Might be a good idea to try and set up some bits trades for the spares with mates. Alternatively it probably will fit on quite nicely by not gluing the turret down you can get easy weapon swaps.


----------



## Jacobite

Barnster said:


> Also @Jacobite, theres 7 Heads in the centurion box, 3 unhelmeted and 4 helmeted


Yeah that's what I thought but all I can seem to see from the offical pictures on the net is the helmeted ones, no images of them with bare heads other than in the WD.


----------



## Magpie_Oz

Barnster said:


> ... after all their just a space marine in a suit of power armour inside another suit of armour (Am I the only one who thinks this is a stupid concept?)


Well it isn't the first time it's been done:

"The new special armour concept was developed by the British Army's research facility in Chobham, England, and was based on a classified system of layers of ceramic composites inside steel armour, mounted on top of a normal steel armour. This new armour, which became known as Chobham armour, ... "


----------



## Zion

Stella Cadente said:


> GW doing 50mm bases?, unlikely, they never have
> 25, 40, 60


Actually they made a 50mm round base for the Hobbit (it's the mounted one from what I understand).



Barnster said:


> I'd guess 40mm bases. They don't look much bigger than terminators, after all their just a space marine in a suit of power armour inside another suit of armour (Am I the only one who thinks this is a stupid concept?) Their definitely smaller than the 60mm dread base, but its hard to tell with no terminators to compare with.


The problem is that a regular Space Marine's feet only reach the Centurion's knees (when you line it up with the Marine scaled properly and match up the heads), which makes it about 1.25-1.5" tall. That makes it bigger than a Terminator.



Jacobite said:


> Yeah that's what I thought but all I can seem to see from the offical pictures on the net is the helmeted ones, no images of them with bare heads other than in the WD.


Did you look at the cover of the WD?


----------



## Barnster

Jacobite Check out the sprue images on GW site. The heads are all backwards, so you cant see the faces but they are definitely there 

they look like the standard ball joint for the head which is on all marines so should be easy enough to swap


----------



## bitsandkits

Zion said:


> Actually they made a 50mm round base for the Hobbit (it's the mounted one from what I understand).


are you sure ?looks alot like a 60mm to me being as its more than double the 25mm base next to it


----------



## Djinn24

Anyone have an graphic program that measures pixels? You could do some CSI stuff and figure the head ratio and figure out the base size.


----------



## ntaw

It says on the GW site in the blurb about the models that the heads are interchangeable with other SM kits.



> The Space Marine range is designed so that all of the plastic parts can be swapped between different kits. Whilst the Centurion Devastator Squad is a really unique unit all the heads can be interchanged with those of the rest of the Space Marine range. As can the myriad extra pieces of equipment that can be found in other Space Marine kits, allowing the opportunity to create truly unique collections of miniatures.


----------



## revilo44

oh i may pick up some cents if that is the case thanks ntaw. does anyone know how many successor chapters are going to be in the book?


----------



## jimbo1701

djinn24 said:


> Anyone have an graphic program that measures pixels? You could do some CSI stuff and figure the head ratio and figure out the base size.


I did a cut and paste of the same plane assault marine and its base came to exactly halfway along the base of the centurion. Pixels measured at 43 and 85 respectively. Also, the dreadnought further back is 93 pixels, significantly larger than the centurion base despite the perspective and distance. That's pretty conclusive that they're 50mm bases I think. Unexpected, but maybe the beginning of a trend with tyranids and orks around the corner.


----------



## Zion

bitsandkits said:


> are you sure ?looks alot like a 60mm to me being as its more than double the 25mm base next to it


Apparently it's a 50mm from what I've been hearing. 

Either way when you scale it to Dreadnought sized basing the Marine inside is too big when you make it Terminator sized he's too small, so he looks like he has to be somewhere in the middle.


----------



## melinore

I don't find the idea of the Centurions all that dumb. If you think about it, the concept is along the same lines as a Dreadnought, but without waiting for a Space Marine to be near death first. 

@Barnster I was looking at the Hunter/Stalker sprue as well and I have the same hope that I can use that kit along with a spare rhino that I have to create both versions. I think I should be able to just stick the gun on to it and it'd be close enough.


----------



## Protoss119

melinore said:


> I don't find the idea of the Centurions all that dumb. If you think about it, the concept is along the same lines as a Dreadnought, but without waiting for a Space Marine to be near death first.


Don't get me wrong, the concept's pretty great. The execution, however, did not appear to go over so well, according to some. The challenge for me will be to adapt it to my homebrew chapter somehow.


----------



## Zion

Protoss119 said:


> Don't get me wrong, the concept's pretty great. The execution, however, did not appear to go over so well, according to some. The challenge for me will be to adapt it to my homebrew chapter somehow.


That was the complaint I recall hearing about the Dreadknight. Eventually people get used to things and the complaints go away.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Along the same lines as a dread...without the guy being dead...so terminators?


----------



## Varakir

I don't mind the look of the centurions - the ranged ones look pretty decent. I'm not really a big fan of single pose models though and i'd prefer to see what the kits are like and whether i can convert them.

Can't see any reason you can't run both options from the Hunter/Stalker kit. If you magnetise the top hatch you could run it as either gun or a Rhino with extra Armour.


----------



## Zion

Stella Cadente said:


> Along the same lines as a dread...without the guy being dead...so terminators?


Ah yes, but remember that Terminator armor is limited and is usually reserved for when they need to do boarding actions.

On the flip-side Centurions are a kind of powered support platform (the designer says that they're not really armor) which are used for dealing with breaking heavilly entrenched enemy lines.

It's not an unreasonable idea, and I think the execution is decently solid with the only hiccups really existing in the arms of the Assault Centurions due to the need for modularity between it and the ranged version, but I can live with that.


----------



## Khorne's Fist

The only reason they were designed was to make more money, and as they are a profit making organisation I don't have a problem with that. But putting space marines in power armour into... more power armour, just seems like a cop out. A whole new vehicle might have gone down better.


----------



## Straken's_Fist

Well, they do remind me a lot of those russian dolls...


----------



## bitsandkits

Zion said:


> Apparently it's a 50mm from what I've been hearing.
> 
> Either way when you scale it to Dreadnought sized basing the Marine inside is too big when you make it Terminator sized he's too small, so he looks like he has to be somewhere in the middle.


Well that likely means that we should expect other infantry of a similar scale to be in the pipeline, meganobs for a kick off


----------



## Words_of_Truth

How big are they in relation to the Castellax mechanicum robot?


----------



## Loli

Allegedly from Warseer content from the fluff of the new book. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?380204-Bg-changes-from-C-SM&p=6905950#post6905950



> -it's stated that the IF found ONLY ONE HAND of Dorn after his assault on the black crusade,retconning both the old versions
> -there's artwork of both a sergeant and a veteran sergeant,both using standard UM helmets,again,retcon
> -they added a second IF-only holyday:day of the founding,on the day the second funding happened,all the marines from Dorn's blood chapters that are not in-action will regroup at the reclusium of their chapter where chaplains will read stuff written by Dorn and everyone that feels like doing it (but mainly veteran) will retell stories of their actions to inspire everyone
> -the attack on the starfort Endeavur of Will (from the same name BL novella) has been basically rewritten
> -a little change about the iron cage:the new version says that,if not for the ultrmarines jumping in,the IF legion and the IW legion would have utterly destroyed each other during the siege
> 
> -Stronos,maybe the most WTF moment of the wardex,has been somehow retconned:the IH chapter is ruled by the chapter meeting of the various clan's iron fathers..but when **** really hits the fan they make one of their own de-facto leader of the chapter,with powers complety equal to those of a chapter master.Stronos is the most successful iron father to ever have takn the role.he's also trying to reform the chapter to bring it away from the dogmatic "machine above all" way of thinking (a new quote from him goes "With iron we are stronger but without a soul we are nothing")by shifting more "places of power" from techmarines to apothecaries/librarians/etc etc,but not everyone in the council is ok with that
> To keep it short,think craftworld eldar's autarch.
> 
> -References to BL and FW stuf pop out some places and are missing in others (Fire Lords listed as a unknown prognitor chapter,while BL has them as If descendants b placing them in a feast o Blades....The audio Eye of vengeance is named in the UM timeline...The econd battle of Damnos is there just as a date...Siege of Vraks in the timeline Etc etc)
> 
> -The seventh company of a codex chapter is now also trained in the use of storm talons (in addition to land speeders)
> 
> -Rainbow warriors are back (they are mentioned in the timeline)
> 
> -The fate of the Schytes of the emperor is now clear:they are still alive and rebuilding (well,it was alredy clear thanks to BL but...)
> 
> -Calgar managed to hadoken-KO the swarmlord in a rematch after Macragge
> 
> -Black templars don't blindly hate all psykers (the opposite,the book says they revere astropaths an navigators because of their connection with the emperor/ability to see the light of the astronomicon).And the fact that they don't field librarians is because they don't have anyone with psychic powers anymore.The book gives a few options about why that happened to the chapter but the truth is unclear because,with the loss of the librarium,most of the ancient BT lore went missing too.It also ends saying that they'd gladly accept them if they ever resurfaced
> 
> -Trazyn tried to steal the Spear of Vulkan from He'stan.When he failed the irst time,he set a trap saying hat he had found one of the missing relics of Vulkan only to have the opportunity to try again.So,He'stan has a necron stalker now
> 
> -there is a callback to the "the blood ravens are descendants of the Thousand sons":in the "unknown founding" part it's said that only the ordo malleus knows the true origin of the Exorcists and Blood raven chapters


If true, as an Iron Hands fan I'm pissed.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

As an Imperial Fists fan I'm dancing!

After all the arguments and discussions I've been part of, I finally feel vindicated.


----------



## projectda

I have no problems with the sound of the IH fluff. Not everyone would be ok with, ' oh my arm is perfectly ok *chop*, better' thought. Its also what The primarch wanted to do too. This weekend should be good. I should have the codex on Saturday. And ill have my face in it for a fewdays.


----------



## Zion

projectda said:


> I have no problems with the sound of the IH fluff. Not everyone would be ok with, ' oh my arm is perfectly ok *chop*, better' thought. Its also what The primarch wanted to do too. This weekend should be good. I should have the codex on Saturday. And ill have my face in it for a fewdays.


Actually their Primarch wanted to put a stop to it and get them to realize they had value and strength without the augmentations (he wanted to go as far as stripping everyone he could from them, and the metal from his hands after the Crusade).

That of course never happened.


----------



## Protoss119

They retconned Kardan Stronos. I think I might be able to die a happy man.


----------



## Jacobite

Iron Hands fluff sounds interesting, gives room for both the pro and anti augmentation camps. Nice to see them get some love. 

As for the great blue smurf train riding in to save the day for the Imperial Fists. Really? It'll never happen but I really hope one day the Moloc makes a kebab out of Calgar with his spear and decimates that Chapter.


----------



## projectda

Zion said:


> Actually their Primarch wanted to put a stop to it and get them to realize they had value and strength without the augmentations (he wanted to go as far as stripping everyone he could from them, and the metal from his hands after the Crusade).
> 
> That of course never happened.


I meant it as he agreed with Stronos, and that some may disagree with augmenting. my fault, I was using my phone and didnt reread what i wrote.
thanks for the correction


----------



## melinore

I like to think of Space Marines as fairly direct thinkers. They found that Power Armor is great, so what do they do when Power Armor isn't enough? MORE POWER ARMOR. It's like Iron Man. There isn't a problem in the world that can't be solved by the right kind of Power Armor. 

It seems likely that they have various designs available depending on what the situation called for. Also the Centurion armor with drills in the arms could be a converted design that Space Marines used for mining. Those fortresses don't build themselves and it may be they just adapted the design for warfare. Because everything in 40K needs to be used to kill people at some point.


----------



## ntaw

melinore said:


> the Centurion armor with drills in the arms could be a converted design that Space Marines used for mining


Pretty sure that's what servitors and work crews are for. A Space Marine mining seems like a vast miss allocation of resources.


----------



## tu_shan82

My friend who is interested in 40k as well said exactly that when I showed him the pics of the Centurions in the latest WD He thought that they looked like some sort of mining equipment. Thinking about it more, I believe that there could be some validity to the theory. As a lot of people know, in the background, TDA was was based on the exo suits worn by enginseers while they were working on the warp engines and plasma reactors of the large star ships, only that they were up scaled and adapted for use by the astartes in various theaters of war. Perhaps Centurions have a similar origin, maybe they were used for low gravity, low oxygen mining operations in asteroid clusters and other hazardous environments and then later were modified and up scaled for warfare as well. I guess we'll find out what the dealio is with them tomorrow when the codex comes out.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Space Marines are out tomorrow! Whoo-hoo! Too bad I'm going to the opening game for UTSA instead of the LGS... the Roadrunners better win.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Yay we can finally buy our £18 characters and £50 termitubbies.........oh the fucking excitement.....


----------



## Zion

Stella Cadente said:


> Yay we can finally buy our £18 characters and £50 termitubbies.........oh the fucking excitement.....


Are you secretly Ben Stein? I ask because you never seem to be excited by anything.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Zion said:


> Are you secretly Ben Stein? I ask because you never seem to be excited by anything.


If I wasn't excited by anything, why would I of posted models up that I enjoyed building and painting?, seems an odd statement with no actual basis in fact, very strange.


----------



## Zion

Stella Cadente said:


> If I wasn't excited by anything, why would I of posted models up that I enjoyed building and painting?, seems an odd statement with no actual basis in fact, very strange.


I don't see all your posts, just the one where you don't enjoy stuff, hence my question. Consider my ignorance to created by my limited exposure to you resulted in a misunderstanding.


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

Hmm... is there a good reason why I can't find a Space Marine helmet that resembles The Stig's helmet so I can have a bad-ass driver in my army?


----------



## OIIIIIIO

I have Codex in hand ... have to go read some of the fluff now :victory:


----------



## psactionman

Am I the only one who can't download it?


----------



## Jace of Ultramar

psactionman said:


> Am I the only one who can't download it?


Nope, I can't download it either. I'll just have to go buy the book.


----------



## Loli

Got my LE, just need save up for my Strikeforce, then I can make my first Plog


----------



## kickboxerdog

ive picked up 2 boxs the centurions and i must save really like them and the base is the size between terminators and dreads so nice to work with.


----------



## Djinn24

So the base is a 50mm. That's new to 40k.


----------



## Words_of_Truth

Oh god, apparently everyone still aspires to be like the Ultramarines - 

"While they still venerate their own Primarchs, they nevertheless also aspire to the high standards and wise teachings that Rouboute Guilliman put down in the Codex Astartes"

pg 14


----------



## Barnster

I view that as they read the and venerate the book book rather than loving robot girlyman

It seems strange that based on my initial impressions its good to have an unknown founding so you can play about with your list each game to really find what works best. Though I'm liking the fists bolter drill trait. FA section seems weak compared to the other sections.

These tiny tweeks are all that was needed for CSMs 

Centurions look good on paper, though their best against hordes. Not sure their that survivable though, with no invuln, any plasma weapons will eat them. Their small squad size also makes them vulnerable to weight of fire. That said I may have to include some in my Tyrants legion list


----------



## psactionman

Jace of Ultramar said:


> Nope, I can't download it either. I'll just have to go buy the book.


Finally got it downloaded. Can't find the new collection manager though...


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I can't decide what traits my chapter should use, the only one that really benefits me is the Imperial Fists one as I have a lot of bolters but pretty much everyone at my local store is going to use it as well and I want to shake it up.


----------



## Scion of Khan

psactionman said:


> Finally got it downloaded. Can't find the new collection manager though...


I can't find the collection manager either. I'm rather disappointed by that. I was most eager to check it out.


----------



## Stella Cadente

Well after having a little look at the book in my local, I couldn't help but laugh over how utterly shit the centurions actually are in game, no reason to take them at all over terminators as far as I could see


----------



## Arcticor

No reason to take them over terminators? Sorry, gotta disagree with you there. they:
Have a better RoF than normal terminators (heavy bolters and hurricane vs storm bolter)
Much more survivable (+1T and double wounds)
Ultimate heavy weapons platform (LC and ML, yes please)
and most of all, grav cannons. I can already hear my friends crying cheese about them.
(oh and they take up a different slot, so lets say you max out in elites or something)
but in the end to each his own


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I'd take them, just not set on the models, although in my colour scheme I do think they may look cool. I dunno everything is telling me they are wrong, but everything is telling me they are the perfect extension for my style of fighting.


----------



## kickboxerdog

ive got 2 boxes these guys and i love them , currently just going to build them as dev centurians, 3 with grav cannons and amps and 3 with lascannons all with missile launchers, nice hi powered gun platforms


----------



## Barnster

Assault centurions No way take TH/SS terminators far more survivable 

Devastator centurions are really good. Hurricane bolters plus two heavy bolters means really high fire. Death to hordes and glancing light vehicles to death, misiles are a good choice as well. I think they will be worth it


----------



## Stella Cadente

Arcticor said:


> No reason to take them over terminators? Sorry, gotta disagree with you there. they:
> Have a better RoF than normal terminators (heavy bolters and hurricane vs storm bolter)
> Much more survivable (+1T and double wounds)
> Ultimate heavy weapons platform (LC and ML, yes please)
> and most of all, grav cannons. I can already hear my friends crying cheese about them.
> (oh and they take up a different slot, so lets say you max out in elites or something)
> but in the end to each his own


Yes the ROF is better
More survivable?, 5 terminators is practically the same cost, with only 1 less wound, yes 1 less toughness, but unlike the termitubbies a unit of 5 terminators can be shot by a AP2 ordnance shot and actually have a third of the unit survive due to invuns, something these lack, that makes them even less useful than hammer terminators, and crap compared to wolf guard beyond belief
And grav weapons are not that impressive really

In a static position I can see them as a better choice, like stuck in an aegis, but static defences are monuments to the stupidity of man


----------



## Words_of_Truth

I want a new command to replace my terminator "shooty" squad and terminator commander. Just not sure which way to take it with the new codex and models, perhaps a commander on bike with a command squad.


----------



## psactionman

Stella Cadente said:


> Yes the ROF is better
> More survivable?, 5 terminators is practically the same cost, with only 1 less wound, yes 1 less toughness, but unlike the termitubbies a unit of 5 terminators can be shot by a AP2 ordnance shot and actually have a third of the unit survive due to invuns, something these lack, that makes them even less useful than hammer terminators, and crap compared to wolf guard beyond belief
> And grav weapons are not that impressive really
> 
> In a static position I can see them as a better choice, like stuck in an aegis, but static defences are monuments to the stupidity of man


Your limited viewpoint on everything is what makes theory crafting in Warhammer so damned frustrating. Yes, if you have a giant pie plate of death coming down then TH/SS is better. But what about when you don't? What about when you have a host of Gants running at you? When facing down a horde of anything I would rather have RoF. And SaP isn't as bad anymore. You still move a full 6" each turn but you can do that and still blast the crap out of everything with Heavy Weapons. You can still be mobile without being able to run. When facing a lot of AP2 you will want to make sure they have cover for sure, but a 2+ is a 2+ against anything AP3 and above. In certain situations they are less survivable but by your logic I should take Terminators over everything that doesn't have an invulnerable save, which is ridiculous.

And Grav weapons are not always going to be good, but neither is anything else. Against Terminators they will be awesome. 2+ to wound and AP2? Yes please. I play a Terminator loving BA player who is dreading our first game. Even against Marines/warriors, heck what other weapon do you know that can wound a Bloodthirster on a 3+ at AP2 and shoots 3 times? I didn't think so.


----------



## Stella Cadente

If you think that's what my logic means, then your far off the mark and I don't particularly give two ducks either, I'm not going to discuss a unit designed by a mental retard so it doesn't matter, even if they were the single most amazing unit in 40k, they are still crap models, so I see no point bothering to defend or attack them


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

But you persistently attack them?


----------



## Stella Cadente

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> But you persistently attack them?


Yeah because I am REALLY the only person who has/does -_-


----------



## Chaplain-Grimaldus

I have never liked them and always said that. If you won't talk about it then why do you keep doing so lol.


----------



## kickboxerdog

i really like the new warzone book damos as it got a deathwatch formation for apoc games oww yeah


----------



## psactionman

I think the models look lame that is true. But not wanting to consider that they may have their purposes and uses because you hate the models is close minded and stupid. Not to mention you have a funny way of not talking about them...


----------



## Barnster

I don't like the models, so will be using different ones, though not sure what for yet.

Though for my Word bearers counts as Tyrants legion list I'll use converted standing obliterators, on the new base size


----------



## psactionman

Scion of Khan said:


> I can't find the collection manager either. I'm rather disappointed by that. I was most eager to check it out.


I read something over on Dakka about the Apple servers having technical difficulties and the collection manager being delayed. This sounds plausible given the difficulties I had downloading it last night...


----------



## SSG.House

Has anyone else purchased one of the limited edition covers? I just got the White Scars one in....
Its a nice book...but I wish there was more White Scars to it.....the majority of the book is crammed with Smurf bullshit.

I dont know if the only diff is the cover....but Im tired of the Smurfs getting shoved in everyones faces.


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## Asamodai

Yeah I'm pretty sure the Limited Editions are just an extra cover which is just the same piece of artwork that is already in the book.


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## Stella Cadente

Yep pretty much, you honestly thought you were getting more for £70?, and just think, dust covers are so easily damaged, especially during constant use, enjoying putting your dust cover in the bin in a year or so


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## Bindi Baji

Stella Cadente said:


> Yep pretty much, you honestly thought you were getting more for £70?, and just think, dust covers are so easily damaged, especially during constant use, enjoying putting your dust cover in the bin in a year or so


Don't forget the special edition receipt featuring the words "special edition"


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## psactionman

Finally got the collection manager and it is a half-assed half finished version of a great idea. Very poorly implemented. Right now you can only add HQ, troops, and heavy support, and they haven't even added the Command Squad yet. Don't give me this half finished dribble. Very disappointed.


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## dragonkingofthestars

so when is this thread going to get unsticked?


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## Zion

dragonkingofthestars said:


> so when is this thread going to get unsticked?


Saturday when Dark Elves officially drop. Since people were still discussing the codex I was trying to be nice and let them keep talking about it until then at least.


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## bitsandkits

we should take a moment to remember the failed rumours, the half baked wishlists that people chucked in to the fray to add spice to the rumour mill! will be interesting to see what we get as a second wave so to speak when they have ploughed through the other codex updates.


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## Cypher871

The 'Special Edition' bollox is just that...a way for our favourite purveyor to milk more cash for the same product. That's why my Chapter is peculiar to me...the only person that gets to dick with the fluff is me. :wink:


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## Djinn24

And no one twists your arm to buy them and you can still get the normal one no problem.


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## Tawa

Cypher871 said:


> That's why my Chapter is peculiar to me...the only person that gets to dick with the fluff is me. :wink:


This. It's pretty much all I've ever done apart from a 2ed dabble with DA


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