# Defensive Vs offensive builds when equipping heroes and lords



## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Hi all,

When you equip your characters do you have a preferred style that you tend to gravitate towards, or do you tend to build for a specific situation each time? I have noticed whilst equipping heroes and lords I have a tendency to think of armour saves and ward saves before worrying about damage output. 

Obviously a balance must be made, but more often that I tend to look for ways to increase my characters survivability first. This is in stark contrast to an opponent of mine who can always be relied on to bring very offensive characters, with little to no defensive gear in general.

I am not advocating one approach to the exclusion of the other, but in general, do you favour offensive or defensive builds when equipping your heroes and lords?


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

When I kit my High Elf Lords, I usually have minimal defensive gear (usually Vambrances of Defense or Temakador's Gauntlets with mundane armor). The rest of the points go straight into offensive capability.

In the case of the High Elves, we pay for ASF, so by not making the most of its benefits, we lose out. Focusing on offensive capability is paramount for a High Elf's survivability. Just look at the Swordmasters.

As for Warriors of Chaos, the do offer some decent stats to do the talking in terms of offense, but a high Toughness and Chaos Armor isn't going to keep that expensive fighter among your ranks for very long, will they? With Warriors Lords, it's best to analyze the character's purpose first. That is, will this guy be used to take down a dragon, or to grind through dozens of Goblins? Point being, here I think gearing a character is a bit more situational.

Overall, though, I just like to use what is cool. The Father of Blades and Armor of Damnation combo is just... awe inspiring. Star Lance on a charge... unbelievable.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Personally, I tend to go for balance (as evidenced by my Pit Fighter). A good example is my Chaos Lord - he's got the MoK, a Juggernaut, Favour of the Gods, a Chaos Runeshield and an Axe of Khorne. All this means that on the defensive end of things, he's got a 0+ Armour save, MR1, and negates enemy Magic Weapons in combat. Offensively, he's got 6 Strength 6 attacks with Killing Blow. And a high potential for improvement pending any Challenges he wins. Clearly nothing to sneeze at! Of course, I pay through the nose for all this (nearly 400 points), and he's a prime target for cannon-sniping with the lack of a Ward save (a problem for all WoC, as there's not a single decent one in the book).

Similarly, I've been looking at a Dreadlord with the Armour of Eternal Servitude, a Sea Dragon Cloak, the Pendant of Khaeleth, and a Crimson Death equivalent. Collectively, he'll have a 4+ Armour save (3+ v. shooting), a Ward Save that's effectively 4+ v. Strength 3 and inversely correlates to the attacker's Strength, and Regeneration, not to mention striking at Strength 6 (and Initiative 8!). I could give further examples with other armies I've tried, but what it boils down to is: why choose? :grin:

Having said that, though, a lot of it does boil down to, as Valor said, "what is cool". Personally, I think it's cool having a General that can kick just about anybody's arse up and down the block, but maybe that's just me .


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I try to build mine so that they give maximum benefit to the unit they are attatched to.
When building a general I always try for survivability over offense but as the armies I use are Empire(difficult to make a good offensive character) Chaos dwarf (hardly any magic to choose from and ld 10 to important to lose) and Ogres (the magic items are mostly pointless) I think survivability is higher on the list than damage output.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

I tend to use the same weapon builds for my charcters, and they are mainly offensive.i once devised a slayer with 6 flaming attacks with unsaved wounds spliting into D6 wounds- a potential of 6x6x2= 72 wounds! i rarly think of defending my characters, so challenges go like this-
(me) ha face my axe of doom!
(oppenent) i strike first. right iv'e wounded you 3 times, take your armour saves at -1.
(me) b*****ks.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

That totally depends the army you play and the character in question. 
If you play VC you should do what you can to make the Vampire Lord survive longer since its game over when his wounds reaches 0 at the end of a phase:shok:

Ogre Tyrants gets standardizer and random other items. Thats enough to know that you will kill any enemy with him and well enough to deter folks from stupid ideas concerning him:laugh:

Dwarven characters tend, and should, be geared for defence firsthand. They will almost never charge so you must survive the enemys pounding before attacking back. Youre Axe of Killkill wont do you no good dead...:no:

Another detail to value is actually if the character will regain his points. A normal hero with full armour and a barded steed and a lance is cheap(relatively speaking) in all armies and still pack decent punch:wink:


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## Mutants_ho! (Jul 3, 2008)

Well with Goblins you really need to have a fair mix of both, as our general is both squishy and weak-ish. If equipped with a few of the better items then he becomes an adept fighter (Well, better than you'd expect of a gobbo), with I5 Str5 WS6 A4. He only has T4 though, so he needs to be protected; I give him the Warboss Umm's best boss 'At, for a +5 ward save (I wish orcs and gobbos could get a better ward) to keep him as protected as possible.

However if i was playing my Orc army then I'd go for more offensive than supportive (The gobbo general is a support character, as he is really the only way for gobbos to get good in CC) And give him an outfit like this

Porko's Pigstikka
Boar
Bigged's Kickin' boots
This would give him str 6 and base attacks 6 on the charge, along with the boars str 5 attack; He would also get 2 more attacks if attacking a unit with a rank 3 bonus. This would also keep him protected too, as (he is a black orc) with a shield heavy armor and a boar he gets +2 save, along with T5. If you wanted to make him even more costly you could add in the best boss 'at, and get a +5 ward as well (though its not strictly necessary.

It really depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the army your playing though (as you can see from the dramatic change in gear my two O&G guys got) so unless asked about a specific army you can't really say much exact stuff.


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## Critta (Aug 6, 2008)

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> he's a prime target for cannon-sniping with the lack of a Ward save (a problem for all WoC, as there's not a single decent one in the book).


You make a fair point, there are however a few useful options that I've found:

a) Crown of Everlasting Conquest for a ward save
b) MoT and blasted standard for 4+ ward vs missiles
c) Whichever armour it is which gives you a ward save vs non-magical attacks

Just some food for thought


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Since the only army I currently play is O&G I don't really have much option to go defensive, with 2 magic armours, one being too expensive for me to ever take. Aside from my general, with the best boss 'at, I never use the talismans either, so I always end up somewhat offensive with the most defensive ones being those too cheap to have any magic equipment at all.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Critta said:


> You make a fair point, there are however a few useful options that I've found:
> 
> a) Crown of Everlasting Conquest for a ward save
> b) MoT and blasted standard for 4+ ward vs missiles
> ...


Aye, there is that, but the Armour of Morrslieb's all but useless when challenging enemy characters, and takes away my Chaos Runeshield (far, far better given his intended purpose - between that and the Axe, he's on even footing with Archaon in a challenge, and capable of absolutely krumping Grimgor Ironhide or Tyrion :grin. Similarly, can't afford the Crown, and, completely apart from the fact that the whole point is to have a frothing, nigh-on invincible devotee of Khorne, you can't get a Jugger with the MoT. Dead on about the Standard, though; 5+ v. cannonballs is a damn sight better than nothing.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

In Warriors of Chaos, I always go for an Offensive Build. Mounted, without a Ward Save, they are as Hard as they already can be. On foot, they're as hard as they can be, and the best Ward Save is a 5+ Save (Tzeentch with Talisman of Protection/Mark of Khorne).

Armour is always therefore an added bonus, and other than the skin hidden plate, I won't say 'no, I can't have that weapon, because I want such an armou', it's always a case of I'll have mundane armour and that weapon.

With High Elves, though, Defensive is my Game. I'm a real fan of the 2+ Re-roll AS and 4+ WS, with the Foe Bane, to deal with Challenges. Put him in some White Lions, and I'm kicking tits - Taking on any unit, I usually Strike First, with Strength 6 warriors around me. A real melee tank. He's there to provide Leadership to the army, and to kill anything too hard for the other units, and is a real killer.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Ascendant Valor said:


> In the case of the High Elves, we pay for ASF, so by not making the most of its benefits, we lose out. Focusing on offensive capability is paramount for a High Elf's survivability. Just look at the Swordmasters.


That's solid gold, Valor. I hope you don't mind, but I'm coaching a few new players who picked up High Elves and I'm definitely going to use that line on them. I've always equipped my Lords pretty offensively for some instinctual reason, but now I know why.


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