# Defilers/soul grinders and counts as



## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I have an incomplete demons army and a couple of defilers. Is there anyone else who uses soul grinders as counts as defilers? I just use the harvester guns as the autocannons and the mouth as the battle cannon and allow for an additional Dccw. Its just that the soul grinder is a much nicer model.


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## asianavatar (Aug 20, 2007)

I think in most cases it would be okie. I would try and armour it up a bit to make it seem more like a defiler.


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## solkan (Apr 24, 2008)

Among the various things that your opponents could object:
1. Modeling for advantage by having the battle cannon mounted higher than normal.
2. The model's not WYSIWIG because it's missing the two base dreadnought close combat arms in the front where the Soul Grinder has legs.
3. It's an icky _proxie_ substitution.

Having noted those, I'll admit to fielding Soul Grinders as Defilers and vice verse in friendly games. As always, for tournaments the decision of the organizer (or the people you're actually playing) matters, not the opinions of forumites.


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

solkan said:


> Among the various things that your opponents could object:
> 1. Modeling for advantage by having the battle cannon mounted higher than normal.
> 2. The model's not WYSIWIG because it's missing the two base dreadnought close combat arms in the front where the Soul Grinder has legs.
> 3. It's an icky _proxie_ substitution.


1. Put a cannon in the chest 
2. IT HAS HUGE DAEMON ARMS, I THINK THOSE COUNT!
3. Slap them.

:so_happy:


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## PapaSmurf124 (Mar 28, 2010)

Winterous said:


> 1. Put a cannon in the chest
> 2. IT HAS HUGE DAEMON ARMS, I THINK THOSE COUNT!
> 3. Slap them.
> 
> :so_happy:


I agree. Its basically the same model. I know there are some differences, but still, I'd allow it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

At least it`s the same basic model. I`m not a fan of proxie, but I agree some models have much better looking substitutes. One of my Hive Tyrants is actually a heavily converted Warrior/Ravener/Lictor hybrid, mounted on a large base and made taller to keep the size right. 

I don`t see any problem with a simple proxie now and then, but if it`s going to be permanent, you should at least convert it a bit to better represent a defiler, if only to keep the whiners happy.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

It's hardly proxying to use a Soul Grinder as a Defiler, or vice versa. The hobby is about conversion, and prior to the Soul Grinder kit, in the 4th Edition Chaos Space Marine Codex, Defilers could have the Mutated Hull upgrade. I know of lots of folks who carried those defilers over to a daemons army after the Mutated Hull upgrade (which most people modelled as having the daemon engine unbound) went the way of the dinosaur. What if you had a Word Bearers army, where a daemon would be more fitting than a daemon engine? If your army has a very mechanical feel, the Defiler model is more suitable. If you have a more mutated theme, then the Soul Grinder is more suitable. They're armed identically for all intents and purposes, and are similar sizes. 

If you're opposed to that line of thinking, this may not be the right game for you. There are loads of other games out there that require the official model with no conversions for tournament use-- GW has always only required that models be -mostly- GW parts, which may or may not include parts from the official model as the player decides. As long as everything is WYSIWYG and everyone's clear on what everything you're looking at is, then it's all good.


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## Partof1 (Mar 2, 2010)

I wouldn't have a problem, just check with whoever you're playing ahead of time and mount all the weapons on it.


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## Vanchet (Feb 28, 2008)

I would leg it go-though I think the standard can be just as nice with alittle work


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

Just convert it so there's a cannon sticking out of his mouth!


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## Winterous (Mar 30, 2009)

Boc said:


> Just convert it so there's a cannon sticking out of his mouth!


..There already is.


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## Boc (Mar 19, 2010)

...well...shit

It's been a while since I've seen a soul grinder...


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Actually, putting armour plates on a Soul Grinder to be more like a Defiler is... well... odd.  I mean, the SG is 13-13-11, while the Defiler is 12-12-10. So lol at armour plates. 

I'd go with Horus' idea, if your army has more of a mechanical feel then I'd raise an eyebrow over the SG, just like the other way around. Other than that I don't see why anyone in their right mind wouldn't allow you to use SGs as Defilers.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Thanks for the input and sorry about the delay replying. I have the beginnings of a demons army with two soul grinders with a third in the pipeline. However i prefer the soul grinder model to the defiler.


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