# New to WFB



## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Well my friend convinced me to get into WFB with him and put my second 40k army on hold. After reading the rule book I can see why , it really does look alot more tactical than w40k.
So we put some money together and got the battle for skull pass and the rule book plus some army books.
So we played though the missions in the BFSP book and then added the other units and have been having alot of fun. We still dont know everything and need to look at the rulebook alot mostly with magic but playing is the best way to learn.
We have come to the hardest bit choosing an army. My friend is thinking of staying with Dwarfs or O&G but I have seen him looking at Hordes of Chaos.

I am stuck between three armies- Tomb kings, Beasts of Chaos and Skaven.
So which army would you think is best for a new player.

With Tomb kings I was thinking alot of Chariots, Ushabti and tomb scropians as I love the models. 

With Beasts of Chaos I was thinking again Chariots and monsters
Skaven would be themed around the Warlock Enginners and Clan skyre.

So as you can see I like Chariots and Monsters


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

You seem to have picked out 3 of the more complex armies in the game. The Tomb kings are not really an army I'd recommend for beginners as their magic phase is overly complex when compared to any other armies plus they have other rules unique to undead.
The Beast of Chaos take time to get used to as you will mainly be dealing with Skirmishers and the ambush rule added to that its a really expensive army as a large amount of the models are metal.
The Skaven are fairly close to a normal list but can shoot each other and can hide characters in the back of units. The sheer amount of models you need for a Skaven force even with the great range of plastics makes it a less popular with beginners.
At the end of the day though its your army and as long as you like the look of it its up to you. What I suggest is if you can look through the army books before you decide.


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

As said before these armies are a bit complex. If you are having some difficulty with magic I would not suggest Tomb Kings. Skaven require a lot of tactical thinking because their low leadership makes them very vulnerable to running away. while beasts of chaos I don't have a clue.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

despite the complex magic phase, if you like tomb kings, they're not too bad a force to have, and if you love the models, go for it. I'm not too fond of Beasts of Chaos myself, old models, mostly metal, and I just never really liked the look of most of them. 

Skaven though, I'm rather fond of them, especially Clan Skryre (good choice!). The weapons and engineers of skryre really give it a lot of character, and a lot of conversion potential. It can be a very fun army to play, but expect to have more than a few set backs, especially when just getting used to how fantasy works, as skaven have a tendency to turn tail and run if not used right, but they can be a fearsome opponent when you get the hang of them.


well, as fearsome as a bunch of ratmen can be...


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

plus skaven are due for a re-release the rumour mills have churned up the return of the old favourite. the doomwheel!!!!!!! now if the vermin lord sees a return i'll join you on the skaven armies matey 

but yea skaven are great fun huge units hiding their sneeky git charactors and shooting themselves they're a good fun army just a little complex to win with


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Frankly speaking all WHFB armies are somewhat complex, the whole game is alot more complex then 40k. Thats the grand charm with the game. No matter which army you choose you will learn to use it eventually...

Go for the looks, pick what you think looks "kewlest" and blaze away 

Check here for info on a bunch of WHFB armies
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20695


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

pick the ones with the models you like the most, but dont pick skaven... (summer?)


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a few skaven models in my bitz box such as the Vermin Lord, Doom wheel, 20 Clanrats, Grey seer and boneripper and a few Stormvermin. Not sure why I think I must have picked them up when I first started W40k all those years ago.
I had heard that those 3 armies where quite complex. I suppose I could just my 40k Daemon army with a few changes and make a movement tray that can hold round bases but I have heard they are quite strong and I would like to start a new WFB army.

That intro thread to the armies is great and has helped me alot just saw you updated it for tomb kings thanks so much.
I have not a fan of the good races such as high elfs, lizardmen, Brets and dwarfs. I think I will make a list for tomb kings and post it up and then look at the DE, Vampire counts, Warriors of Chaos and Empire.
Only really looking at Empire so I can make really religious army so lots of warrior priests and fantic type units and that they are easy to convent.

Sorry for the double post, it is not letting me edit my old post.
I have read though all the army books for all the armies but the Dark Elfs and the new Warriors of chaos as I dont have them.

I have decided to play Tomb Kings no other army stood out for me. I loved the idea of there magic phase and some of the magic items seem really cool.
I would love to include a casket of souls in my army as it just reminds me of the ark in Raiders of the lost ark.

So now I am trying to make a list before I ordered the battalion box. I am having a hard time with, as it seems alot more complex then with 40k I think due to all the items you can have and all the different weapons.

So does anybody have any tips for me in making a 1000 point list. My friend and I are sort tof copying the tale of four games and making are armies together. He is making a O&G army and I am doing tomb kings. We thought this would be good as there is a story in the book about the TK driving out the Orcs so we are doing are own sort of campaign for it.
We are starting at 500 points then going up 500 points each month or how every long it takes use to paint our models up to 2500 points.
With the 500 point game we are just using that to get to grips with are new units so we will just be using the want is in the battalion boxs ( will have to see if there is a large point difference)
So at 1000 points we are making are our lists. 
Here is what I have so far- I think I have put to many points into my lord

Tomb King-295
-Flail of skulls
-Armour of the Ages
-Chariot 

Liche Priests-190
-2x Dispel Scroll
-Hieratic Jar

Core
4x Chariots-225
-Standard bearer- Banner of Undying Legion
-Champion


I know I need more core units and as I am running out of points I think I should get rid of the tomb King and just add more skelles. But what is a good way to run skelles with just shields and spears or should I give them armour. Any point giving them bows ?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

You can't take a Lord at 1000 pts .

Get two Lich Priests, make one a Heirophant, and give it Cloak of the Dunes.

Core should be Skele Archers, Skele Warriors, and some Light Cavalry, with a couple of units of Chariots. At 1500, look to a Screaming Skull Catapult, a second Warrior unit, and a Prince. At 2000, upgrade Prince to Lord, and increase numbers of units, either add Prince BSB (Undying Legion), or another Priest.

At 2500, you can look towards Giants, or a second Screaming Skull, Or a Casket of Souls, or the Killing Blow Guard.

Spare points at any stage should go to Ushabti.

I'll find my book, and hopefully help you out with a better list tomorrow 

Good luck.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Doh did not notice the no lord before 2000 points was to busy look at how many core I needed.
Ok how about this:
Tomb Kings 1008

Liche Priest-160
-Cloak of Dunes
-	Heiratic Jar

Liche Priest-135
Serpent Staff

Core

20 Skeleton Warriors-200
-Light armour
-Spears shields

20 Skeleton Warriors-225
-Light armour
-Spears shields
-Full command

20 Skeleton Archers- 160

8x Heavy Horsemen-128


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## jigplums (Dec 15, 2006)

looks good for small pts. always take lots of magic with tomb kings, they really rely on it


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Ok, first of all you also need either a King or a Prince in the army to make it eligable due to TK rules, so in short your characters will be a Prince and a Lich Priest with the option of adding a 3d character :wink:

If you settle for CC skellies do not give them spears. There is a hand weapon and shield rule that gives better save if the unit fights with normal CC weapons which is far superior to spears. Skeletons are way to bad fighters to gain anything from spears, the loss of better save is not worth it. Even more so when it actually costs extra points to screw your save over :angry:

If you wanna be a mean ass(gamingwise) then include a Casket of Souls. It'll rip the Orc army to shreds by itself if it gets trough meaning that he almost must let your other incantations go during the magic phase to stop that one


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks did not see that with the hand weapons, got alot still to learn. Well I brought the battlelion box and a liche priest and hero model. Next looking to get some more horseman and a casket of souls.
changed my list a bit. 

Liche Priest-160
-Cloak of Dunes
-	Heiratic Jar

Tomb Prince- 139
-Biting blade
-Dispel scroll
-Light armour+ Shield
Core

20 Skeleton Warriors-200
-Light armour
- shields+hand weapons

20 Skeleton Warriors-225
-Light armour
- shields+ Hand weapons
-Full command

20 Skeleton Archers- 160

8x Heavy Horsemen-128


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Hmm more ideas/criticism.

The Prince can not have the scroll. Only Wizards can buy arcane items(which scrolls are) _however_ TK have an item that does the same that a Prince can buy: Brooch of the Great Desert. Drop the biting blade tho on him, give him a Great Weapon instead and maybe some magical protection or just rely on his high T.

Id drop the 20block skellies that dont have FC(full command), and split the 20 archers in 2x10 so all can shoot. This will give you 3 core units, meaning that in theory you dont need more then that for a 2k battle 

For those 200 pts Id toss in 3 Ushabtis or 4 Charriots and give the Prince a ride too. You need some punch in the army, skeletons really arent that killy.

Have you assembled the cav yet? Id make them have Bows and use them as Light Cav instead. Personally I really dont like the "heavy cav" that have the awsome save of 4+ :angry:


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks for the help Maiden Manic I am still stuck in 40k mode where I dont what to put tons of points into a hq and i still think I need tons of troops.
Well the other day my cousin rang me up and said that because he is off to the army he wont have time for Warhammer so he has given me a bunch of his old models. He collected Wood Elfs(6000 pts) and Hordes of Chaos(2000 Pts).
So I am going to put his wood elfs away so when I see him again he can play me using them but I think I am going to expand his hordes of chaos well Warriors of Chaos now. I have taken the few daemon units he has into my w40k daemons. I have stripped the paint off this warriors and I got the warrior army book.

So I have put my tomb kings on hold for now- I will paint them up ( thinking purple and gold for shields) but wont add anything.
The main reason is now when I finish the warriors of chaos I will have a Chaos WFB army- CSM, Daemon and Traitor guard for 40k so all aspects of Chaos. Which I think will look good on my shelf. I have heard bad things about this book but oh well if I wanted a strong WFB list I would just use my daemons.


Here is what I have so far 800 points. I think I need to add some big hitters like some Chaos warriors or a Wizard. The reason I what Wulfrk is because I like the model and the Seafang rules looks good for getting at warmachines as I dont have any fliers.

Wulfrik the wanderer-185

19xMarauders-144
-Slaanesh
-Shields
-Light Armour
-Full Command

20x Marauders-150
-Slaanesh
-Shields
-light armour
-Full command

10x Warhounds-60
10x Warhounds-60

10xMaruader Horsemen-210
-Khorne
-flails
-Full command
809


Here is my 1000 point list to start.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

What bad things have you heard about the WoC armybook? It is shaping up to be one of the really competitive books, it certaily doesn't compare badly to the other Fantasy armybooks.

As for the list, you should look at getting some chaos warriors and knights as your list as it is lacks staying power in my opinion, and a caster or two. The thing with the WoC book is that though they are lacking good shooting units and warmachines (there are a few possibilities but nothing to compete with gunlines) they make up for it in their very powerful melee units and their magic phase, neither of which are being utilised well in your list.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks well I was on warseer and they seem to complain about everything there. Stuff about nearly all of the tactics gone stuff about no ward saves. But I looked over the book and to me it looks good.
Yea will my spare 200 points was thinking of adding a block on nurgle warriors. When I move to 1500 points will add knights and wizard. I could get rid of the second block of marauders and add the knights. 
Are forsaken worth it as I think I could make some really cool models for them.


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## Hudson (Jun 3, 2008)

exactly well said sqeek i mean there is a tzeentch spell cast on 15+ that destroys a unit!
no army saves nothing all dead.

plus warriors if khornate with two hand weapons.....thats alot of dice rolls for attacks


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Ha, Whingeseer no wonder you thought the book was bad! 

I recommend you take a look at this introduction (originally written by Vaz) that is part of the Fantasy Introduction series we are writing up. It is one of the most comprehensive introductions written and would seem to answer most questions in a lot more detail than I can give, not being a WoC player myself.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes just after I posted my list I saw that the intro thread had been updated. 
That thread has been a godsend I really need to give some rep out for it.
I was trying to go for a large marauder horde but now I see that the power of Maruaders is really as a spam unit and that the true power is the warriors.
It seems you cant make a good list with just marauders or warriors that you need to use them to support each other. 
My theme is not monogod but would like to make a very mutated host so lots of warshines, Forseken and spawns or would this not really work ?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Warshrines and Spawn are both Rare Choices. You only need one warshrine for the main benefit, but if you want to increase the potency of your units, then two is prefereable. 

Spawn are good on their own, but a tagteam (Khornate and Slaanesh work well together, as do Tzeentch and Nurgle) is a far better choice. Personally, I reckon Spawn should be like Bolt Throwers in that two should be able to be taken per selection, but they're not.

Chosen recieve the blessings of the Gods more so than Warriors, and the models reflect this - just check out the Chosen Champion =). They won't be too far of a step away from your list. Forsaken are rather rapid - as well, so knights/Chariots aren't too much of an issue - especially with a Warshrine near to a Chosen unit, possible results include giving them a Strength of 8 with Great Weapons, a 0+ Armour Save on foot, 5 Attacks with 2 hand weapons etc. Remember, you can't count on the Warshrine being favourable, you may roll insanity, or the Eye is Closed.

Marauders, despite my stating that they are Spam units, having a 6 point model with WS4 S5 is Not to be sniffed at. Although they don't have the Armour Save, Empire Greatswords are the same stats (IIRC), and they are rather expensive. Marauders are extremely good, and theoretically, an army of them can taken on anything and win.

True Power does not come from models. While Warriors are able to dish out 2 Str 6 attacks a turn with Great Weapons, remember that Marauders can field nearly 3 Marauders for the same cost. It's all relative.

Still, if you make another list, I will be more than happy to help you out .


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Sorry, I have just checked, and have seen you already have a list set up. 

There are a few things I noticed though. Wulfrik is good. But ideally, you need him as a Second Hero - an Exalted Champion will give a much needed Leadership boost to your Marauders (as on a 2D6, rolling under Average is not too easy), and he can come on.

To this end, I'd switch the 10 strong Marauder Horsemen to a 5 Strong unit, and fund the cost of an exalted champion, Great Weapon, Shield, and the Gift that gives him MR (2) and a 4+ Ward Save vs Spells is a good option.

As you only have one Marauder Cavalry unit, I'd take off the Mark of Khorne, and stick with Nurgle or Slaanesh. Stops the main heavy hitters for the flanks of your opponents Charging off after some Dark Riders or Terradons.

Your warhounds are a bit too large for this size of battle. Splitting them into a units of 5 is sound. They are large enough that small ranged units aren't going to cause too much damage, and small enough so that he isn't able to concentrate fire on them. After all, it still takes 2 kills to panic them, and with Ld5, is not too good. With 10 models, they still only need to cause 3 for a panic test. Save the 10 strong units for 2000points .

Don't give the Marauders with Wulfrik shields either - give em Flails. Alternatively, swap the Armour and Shield for Great Weapons. That bonus to their strength turns wounding on a 4 to on a 2. A massive difference, doubling the number of wounds caused per hit nearly.

When they are coming on behind an opponent, they don't need to have the armour - only Skirmishers and FastCavalry can fire, and in 800pts can be a bit too risky to have them loitering just in case, so you should be able to get a good march and charge in before you lose the 5 models. However, on the other Marauders, they are perfectly fine.

If this set up loses too many games/makes the results too close, consider downgrading the Wulrik Marauders into a unit of 11, and the other warrior unit into two units of 16. Take points from the Warhounds as an when you need.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

Well I have changed my army. I got bored with Warriors of Chaos as they are to like my w40k army for me. Painting Power armour is pretty similar to painting Chaos armour I find. I also had problems getting the flesh colours right. I will still use them a bit as they where given to me. 
Now my friend has started to make this army which is empire and a small dwarf army ( just building on BFSP) I have taken up the goblins as they are fun to play and paint. Very different colours to my Warrriors nad EC. 
Now I have all the units from BFSP and I got the Orc and goblin army box off ebay for £30. 

So far I have:
2 Heroes
1 Shaman
1 Big boss
40 Orcs ( not sure how to model them yet)
1 Troll
1 Chariot 
60 gobbos
20 Gobbo archers
20 Spider riders
20 Black Orcs
3 Fanatics

So any advice on O&G I have played a few games with them already and no they arnt the strongest army but they are so much fun to play.
I think I need to pick up some boarboyz is there anything else you think I really need ?


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## Othiem (Apr 20, 2008)

Talos said:


> So any advice on O&G I have played a few games with them already and no they arnt the strongest army but they are so much fun to play.
> I think I need to pick up some boarboyz is there anything else you think I really need ?


You need spear chuckka's. And if you're getting cav, I'd suggest savage boar boyz over the standard boar boyz. They're frail, so screen them with some of your spiders, but they hit much harder. 

For your orcs, choppa + shield seems the most popular way to go, however dual choppas can be fun as well. Spears are almost never taken, mainly as the extra str you get from the choppa is just too good to give up.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

If you are likely to play undead or other fear causing armies a lot then you can't go wrong with either sort of squig unit, both are ItP so they can charge about and totally ignore the zombies pulling silly faces.

A couple of boar chariots is always a good bet, a doom diver is fantastic for shooting holes in large armoured formations. As far as characters are concerned you should consider taking Black Orcs as they are by far the most useful warbosses and big bosses. They can keep your big blocks of Orcs on track, deal a lot of damage and are able to take heavy armour along with all their weapons, so can go toe to toe with other characters easily. Also, for a decent armour save you should look at mounting them on a boar, which can sit in a block of infantry nicely in 7th ed.

Any specific advice feel free to pester or post a list up.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I will post up a list tomorrow. I just have a few questions on a few units so are these units worth it :
1. Wolf riders 
2.Spider riders
3. Is the netters -1S worth it ?
4. Giants 
5. Trolls
6. Squig hoppers and heards
7. Big Uns ?


Also do you guys use orc or Goblin Shamans


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Talos said:


> I will post up a list tomorrow. I just have a few questions on a few units so are these units worth it :
> 1. Wolf riders - yes, good fast cav for flanking and warmachine hunting, use in 5s for best results
> 2.Spider riders - yes, reasonable fast cav for march blocking and warmachine hunting, use in 5s for best results, weaker than wolves
> 3. Is the netters -1S worth it ? - yes, it is expensive, but when used against powerful units in conjunction with a hammer unit like BOrcs it is effective
> ...


Comments above.

I use night gobbo shamans as they are nice and cheap and have better wargear for what I want to do with them. The staff of sneaky stealin' and magic mushrooms are particularly worth a look at.


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