# Vyper Jetbike Tactics



## Arduous Miles (Jun 2, 2008)

I couldn't help but notice that very few lists include vyper jetbikes these days. I would like to see what people think about vypers in 5th edition and what they think the possible/best uses for them could be.

I think I would run them with 2 shuriken cannons, much the way that many people use warwalkers. This unit could hunt transports and then put pressure on objectives or harass enemy tanks. They cost more than warwalkers, but they're much faster and use a fast attack choice instead of heavy support.

What do you guys think?


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## Rated-PG (Mar 25, 2009)

i use them with bright lances or scatter lasers and cannons in my jetbike army the bright lances for AV 14 and the scatter lasers for inf/transports


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## Ancient Tiel' a fier (May 5, 2008)

I use them with just the one shuriken cannon, as cheap as possible. Then i tend to use them as vehicle rear hunters, a cheap way to crack vehicles with armour 10 rears and youve always got an ifintary hunter too.


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## Kyban (Mar 24, 2009)

I think their biggest problem is their low armor and BS, other than that though they're fairly cheap and could sit back with a BL and dart forward for objectives in the end.


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## aegius (Mar 24, 2009)

Vypers are very expensive for what they do. If you are just after some extra firepower, then warwalkers are a better option as they can pack 2X as many heavy weapons and not for twice the cost.(Ignoring shuriken cannons). If you are after hunting the rear armour of vehicles then guardian jetbikes are a better choice. Not only do the GJB's count as scoring, but you have the option to include a warlock with singing spear, this guy is guaranteed to damage a tank if it only has av10 on the rear armour(If he hits). This squad may cost slightly more than a shuriken cannon armed vyper, but it is far more survivable and gives you more options.

I'm not saying that vypers are bad, but they just cost too many points.


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## Arduous Miles (Jun 2, 2008)

I think you're right about that, and in my opinion, all Eldar fast attack is that way. Vypers' BS3 and low AV let them down somewhat, but they can still be good at many things, as so many people above have indicated. However, they do seem to just be too costly to be a good option.

I think all of the Eldar fast attack are just a bit too costly when something else in the codex could do the job for cheaper (and usually just as fast). All of them have the potential to be good. Hawks are used quite a bit as monolith-killers, spiders have their strengths as well, and I personally like spears quite a bit, although I can't deny that they're a lot of points and can be killed fairly easily.

Maybe this is something that will be addressed in the new codex?


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## Kyban (Mar 24, 2009)

If the army is about speed why are the fast attack so mediocre?


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## Arduous Miles (Jun 2, 2008)

It seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

I think the main thing is that they cost too many points for squads that aren't good enough at the jobs that units must now have in 5th edition. Fast attack units can't claim objectives and they sacrifice lethality for speed (ours do, anyway), and therefore, they get overshadowed by two high-mobility eldar units: the wave serpent and the fire prism. Basically, the wave serpent is an extremely good, very fast transport that is available to a very large number of our infantry squads. This makes practically any troops or elites choice as fast (if not faster than) anything in fast attack. That means that our specialized and effective infantry units like dire avengers, fire dragons, and howling banshees tend to overshadow their fast attack counterparts, which are based more on speed as a primary goal and killing/countering certain things as secondary. Additionally, my personal favorite heavy support unit (and that of many Eldar players), the fire prism, provides a reliable way to kill several unit types anywhere on the battlefield. The fire prism is fast, it has better range than any fast attack choice, and two of them can basically counter anything. I like to say, "I have a prism cannon setting for that," about any unit someone else is particularly proud of, and that underscores just how much of an overshadowing effect this unit can have. So it seems that our fast attack units are stuck between great specialized aspect warrior infantry and great generalized firepower.

Honestly, though, I think that having a good transport unit and a good fast tank should not automatically mean that fast attack units aren't worth it. Many of our fast attacks have well-defined roles and they have intrinsic speed that they don't have to rely on transports for. The main problem with them is that they just pay too high a cost for that intrinsic speed. it's the same reason no one would take guardian jetbikes if they weren't scoring units. Just think how cool swooping hawks or warp spiders would be if they could claim objectives, but they can't, so we don't want to pay over 20 points per model for them. That's just my long-winded take.


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## aegius (Mar 24, 2009)

Arduous Miles said:


> IHawks are used quite a bit as monolith-killers, spiders have their strengths as well, and I personally like spears quite a bit,


The thing with monoliths is that they are 235pts of non-necron models, making phase out easier. I've found that monoliths can cause a whole load of casualties, but they just cant make up for their 235pts.


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## Arduous Miles (Jun 2, 2008)

The main problem I have with monoliths is how it allows the necron player to reroll WBB. You're probably right though. I'm leaning towards ignoring them more and more.

I wasn't referring to my own experience with the hawks, though. When I got after monoliths, I prefer witchblades or prism cannons.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

I run any Vypers that actually make it in to my army nowadays are run with a Shuri-Cannon and EML. I just fire the blast as it negates the low BS and allows me to still move 12"

The main issue with them in 5th is the fact that they cant fire two weapons over S4 which means you move 6" (same as a warwalker) and fire two, so not worth it anymore.

peace out:victory:


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

aegius said:


> The thing with monoliths is that they are 235pts of non-necron models, making phase out easier. I've found that monoliths can cause a whole load of casualties, but they just cant make up for their 235pts.


Monoliths easily make their points. You have to include the number of casualties + the number of WBB re-rolls they allow. They can easily earn 100pts per turn just in WBB re-rolls, so they are very high value targets for Necrons. 
If you manage to kill a Monolith then you have done real harm to the army. The trick is to kill it *VERY *fast. If you don't have the 'umph' in your army to kill one by turn 3 then forget about it, but if you do have lots of 'umph' then absolutely go for it.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

I prefer war walkers because,
1) - they are cheaper than vipers
2) - they are not open top like vipers
3) - they can take two weapons
4) - they have scout
5) - they are good to tie up a unit of infantry with a S3 or S4

What I do like about vipers is they can take holo fields.


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## yWizePapaSmurfy (Apr 18, 2008)

Ah silly silly. Vypers are still grand -

Starcannons - Suck, period. Have the chance to get around screening but the 2 shots still kills this gun's once godly status.
BLs - Eh, not too keen on them anymore but if you want the cheapest BLs you can get, they'll hafta be on these or War Walkers anyways.
EMLs - Can handle the most variety of threats, Pinning!
Dual Shuricane - Cheaper Torrent option.
Scatter Laser and Shuricane - Torrent output at fair support range. Can still fire all of it @ Combat speed.
Single Shuricane - Cheap as chips.

Now why Vypers are good comes into play if you have other vehicles/threats in your list that are just as mobile. If other things get your opponent riled up, they have their uses as they won't be targetted immediately.

BEST thing they are for is cockblocking enemy movements and providing Cover Saves where one doesn't naturally exist. Mine commonly block a Land raider after going Flat Out! so they get right in front, Lascannons cat see 'em, The LR tries and usually fails to Ram them due to them having a 3+ Dodge Save against that sort of thing, and if it uses the Hvy Bolter/ Assault Cannon on them it's not on my important choices AND they get the Flat Out! save.

Vypers are incredi-useful, just gotta use a lil' ingenuity.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Arduous Miles said:


> I couldn't help but notice that very few lists include vyper jetbikes these days. I would like to see what people think about vypers in 5th edition and what they think the possible/best uses for them could be.
> 
> I think I would run them with 2 shuriken cannons, much the way that many people use warwalkers. This unit could hunt transports and then put pressure on objectives or harass enemy tanks. They cost more than warwalkers, but they're much faster and use a fast attack choice instead of heavy support.
> 
> What do you guys think?


I found My Vypers useful. I have 2. 1 with Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon and the other with M. Launcher/S. Cannon. And both are highly mobil Weapon Platforms. I can easily hit tanks from behind or flank squads. I also use them for contesting objectives of my enemies (They can move 24" a turn!!!) so I always win with what little I control. There awsome. And quite Cheap.


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## beenburned (May 15, 2008)

I run my vyper in a similar role as my vibro cannon - a handy points filler. They're so cheap, they normally fit in all my lists, since I never get to play around with my armylist much. I'm normally a few points short, no matter how hard I try.


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## kain350 (Mar 12, 2009)

i have to go with war walkers in my army. their is only three key differences to the vypers and walkers. 1.) ones a heavy support and the other is fast attack 2.) the vyper can be upgraded with the holo-field which makes a big difference in the choice .) the difference in point cost is 15pts or more depending on upgrades.(vypers can get more upgrades)

i choose walkers more because they can take care of mobs and then can tie up if needed. on the other hand, vypers cant tie up but can speed around causing havoc and when in danger have the holo-field to increase the chaces of nothing happening to it. the more i talk about it the more i agree that vypers serve a purpose but it all depends on what your going to use it for. think about what you are going to do with it and incorporate it into your army where it will serve it purpose.


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## doomliger (Jul 31, 2008)

I actually have a different prespective here, it depends on the total points of the battle and the size of the map you are playing on, eg if u were playing 2000 pts battle, 3 heavy support slots would be used up, for eg 2 prism, and a falcon (for eg fire dragons etc).

so that leaves you the option of more likely to take vypers than walkers. Also you may find that mobility on a bigger map, and a higher point cost battle (hence more antitank weapons on both team) mobility may be a more important factor for survival as it can get you from cover to cover better.

as vypers can move flatout, its also possible to gain that 4+ save, and using a farseer to fortune that, making that hard to kill.

in a smaller battle, where the enemy may have limited anti tank weapons, it may be a better choice to take walkers, since you are probably using scout ability, and are just using them as torrent fire platforms. and nothing is really worth competiting for that heavy slot. (eg, falcons very expensive with upgrades) , fire prism, not enough points for 2 etc. walkers would also be more useful as it can deal enough damage in low point cost games before adaquate anti tank weapons takes all 3 of them.

then the vyper is made redundant. 


I think that concludes it. I prefer vypers myself due to 1stly the WOW factor, (come on they are soo cool), and secondly they are usually lower as target priority if you don't take too many weapons upgrade on them. (eg 3x vypers, 3 SL, 1 SC, with one with holofield) - 1 vyper SL holofield, 2 vyper SL SC, 3 vyper SL SC. Take a wild guess which one gets armor penetration rolls ^^, acting as a shield for the other 2. Keep in mind that squadron functions like a normal squad, meaning even if vyper 1 can't be seen by the firer, he can still take a bullet for the team. 

Oh, and one more point why vypers are ace, do u ever see walkers being able to rush to contest objectives? Nooooo?

but vypers can move flatout/ into terrain to get that cover save. and CONTEST any objectives as it nears the end of the game, and hopefully survive it.


note, the above setup for vypers is just cheap and general purpose. if you wanted a bit more tank hunt, just change to scatter lasers to EML as suggested before in earlier post, can move 12'' firing SC and then using plasma missile shots) but keep in mind that EVERY extra weapon u add to the squad increases their point value, but also increasing their threat level, so more likely the enemy would target them earlier, destroying them earlier in the game!

final conclusion - you need to be cheap enough to last long enough turns to deal enough damage to gain the cost of them back. (or alternatively go pop enemies REAR armour of their tanks)

Sorry for the late posting, hope someone will find it useful


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## ride of the valkyrie (Sep 1, 2010)

this a discussion on vyper tactics not on vyper vs war walker so in my opinion take both if you have the points. use war walkers with 2 EML and vyper with scatter laser, use the war walker to crack open a transport and mow down the ex-embarked unit with the vyper. hope this helps sorry for late post and bieing blunt


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

"Late" in this case meaning "Year and a Half"...

I don't think anyone who posted on this is either still around or cares. Sorry!


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