# Was the Emperor actually a woman?



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

From the books, codex, and other materials I have read I interpret that Emperor was in all statistical likelihood a female. Furthermore I believe the emperor projected a psychic illusion which was some saw through such as the man in the church...why the empress did this was due to knowing that as a woman others would be less likely to follow her. Thus the emperor masqueraded as a man to more easily influence others, I also believe the Emperor (empress) was deeply in love with Horus, and thus why she had so much difficulty in bringing herself to slay him, as she so deeply loved him.

The other primarchs also were aware, and were all competing for her affection, thus why so much jealousy erupted for some were far more physically close to the empress then others.

Additionally the Emperor was known for extreme mood swings, such as eliminating a legion for a "unknown heresy". It could be that it was the Empress's time, and her being mentally unstable interpreted what the two lost legions did as far more severe then they actually were and thus utterly took her wrath out upon them. However once her mood and mental stability stabilized she realized what she did was too severe, but couldn't undo what she did otherwise would undermine her own rule.


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## Eleaxus (Aug 1, 2009)

The Emperor was a man. Could it have been an illusion? Who cares, if you keep saying stuff like this I am going to warn the Inquisition.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

No.

There is not a single iota of canon that even comes close to such a concept.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Euphrati said:


> No.
> 
> There is not a single iota of canon that even comes close to such a concept.


Well I do not believe the Emperor was a man, due to the many many comments by many in universe characters that the Emperor was not a man/human.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

And Lux is off, again!

Are you really claiming that the Emperor eliminated two whole Legions because of PMS and that because he was in fact a she, she/he was mentally unstable? 

Really?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> And Lux is off, again!
> 
> Are you really claiming that the Emperor eliminated two whole Legions because of PMS and that because he was in fact a she, she/he was mentally unstable?
> 
> Really?


I am a claiming that the Emperor was a female yes, I also believe the Emperor eliminated one of the two legions due to being in a unstable state of mind due to pms which altered her mood and perception.

Thus the reason why the emperor did not reveal what the legions did that made them deserving of being erased from all records, is due to that it wasn't really all that bad. However for the emperor to go back on what she did, would be to undermine her actions in the eyes of all her followers. Thus she erased the records to cover her own political rule.


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

End of thread.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

So, women in power are dangerous because they may have to deal with things at a difficult time of the month and end up slaughtering thousands? 

I can't see any way in which that may possibly be offensive to anyone, at all.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

normtheunsavoury said:


> So, women in power are dangerous because they may have to deal with things at a difficult time of the month and end up slaughtering thousands?
> 
> I can't see any way in which that may possibly be offensive to anyone, at all.


You need to keep in mind, this fictional universe is very grim dark.

Furthermore, the Emperor was the product of tens of thousands of shamans who died and reincarnated into one being...thus pms for the empress would be thousands of minds, histories experiencing pms at once. 

Thus your comparison of how it could be insulting to females is really poor, if that is what you were getting at.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)




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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Lawl the septic tank overflowed again and Luxed all over the fluff forum.


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## SynthNine (Oct 26, 2011)

This sounds a lot like the "Is God a man or a woman" argument.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

So the crusade was just one huge cosmic PMSfest?












SynthNine said:


> This sounds a lot like the "Is God a man or a woman" argument.


It's really Alanis Morissette


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

_Lux_ you always do this, you always spout your theories and cite this line (or a variation thereof) as your sole piece of evidence: _"From the books, codex, and other materials I have read..." _

However, in not a single one of your threads have you ever directly quoted lore from said books, codicies or other materials which support your claims. If you want your theories to be taken seriously (which by the vast majority of people they never are) then you have to take more time to establish a more reasoned argument backed up with relevant lore.

Just saying.

For example what lore could you possibly cite to claim that the Emperor projected a psychic illusion to hide his gender? What lore could you cite to claim that the Emperor was in love with Horus (in any other capacity than the love present between father and son)? What lore could you cite to claim that a primary reason for jealously amongst the Primarch brotherhood was because some were "physically closer" to the Emperor than others (despite the fact that all lore points to the Primarchs being asexual)? Also what lore could you cite to claim that the Emperor was known for extreme mood swings? If you could answer all those questions (there are probably several more) in a flawless manner some may be able to take you seriously. However, knowing the lore like I do I know for a fact that you could never answer those questions satisfactorily.

And eradicating two Legions due to PMS is ludicrous. The Emperor was occupied with ruling the Imperium; guiding the Astronomican, leading the Legions in the Great Crusade, fending off the _"worst depridations of Chaos"_, putting into motion his incomprehsibly long-term plans for an entire species, he would have already been under huge amounts of pressure. The stress of PMS would have been nothing to what he was used to and wouldn't have caused him to eradicate two Legions. Also, im not exactly sure how this would work but given his age wouldn't he have technically gone through the menopause millennia before?!


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Nah, Alanis Morissette is a Noise Marine in disguise, have you heard her music?


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## Jerushee (Nov 18, 2010)

Child of the Emperor, I actually appreciate you take the time to analyse what I write...I will try to answer your questions...seriously I am trying here....

Where he projects psychic allusions is mentioned several times, once in the church where the man states how he sees past the emperor's psychic mask and sees "it" for what it truly is. Second...the keeper of secrets in the warp when speaking to Lorgar as their ambassador states the emperor is the anathame to them...and it is quite foolish to call the emperor a man...a human...when it is a "it"....

As for the emperor loving Horus...and keep in mind the emperor in this thread would be a woman....would be how the emperor grew closer and closer to Horus through the years she was solely with Horus....she grew attached to them....in more ways then just conceptually....

As for mood swings...the emperor goes from being entirely caring for her creations...to being entirely willing to eradicate a legion for not being efficient or effective...


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Jerushee said:


> Child of the Emperor, I actually appreciate you take the time to analyse what I write...I will try to answer your questions...seriously I am trying here....
> 
> Where he projects psychic allusions is mentioned several times, once in the church where the man states how he sees past the emperor's psychic mask and sees "it" for what it truly is. Second...the keeper of secrets in the warp when speaking to Lorgar as their ambassador states the emperor is the anathame to them...and it is quite foolish to call the emperor a man...a human...when it is a "it"....
> 
> ...



So Lux has two accounts here.... Interesting....


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

My 2 cents:

If The Emperor were actually a woman, I doubt Humanity would have made it this far, emotions would have run high, not to mention, the Shaman's projected them self to be born again as one man(or something like that) you have to take into thinking that in a work of God(s) anything is possible, gender is by far NOT uncontrollable before birth by a God, or immensely powerful being, supremely powerful psychic, I've never delved into lore enough to make an argument on changing anything, but I do have my facts straight, no matter how indoctrinated I am into the Imperium's mindset, because Imperial fact was he is indeed male, Imperial fact is he sacrificed millions of people for the greater good of Humanity, and The Emperor(or as you say Empress) being in love with Horus, haven't you ever heard of a Father loving his son very much?

I mean, put it this way, a man who very much loves his son and has given him the world(as in gives him just about whatever he wants) and now see's his son become a murderous criminal, the Father with all his love would probably try his hardest to talk to his son about it, even if his son is hurting him, and this love is deep, because they are kin, family, overtime though the Father will realize the son he loved is no more, he was instead killed sometime ago.

The Horus the Emperor remembered and favored died back on that Chaos world when Horus was tainted, the Horus that the Emperor knew was to all intents, dead before even reaching Terra.


Hope I made sense.


Oh, and, for the record, I reported you to the Inquisition, you are in DESPERATE need for mind-scrubbing :biggrin:



And another thing, God(s) is/are whatever they choose to be, TBH, reality bends to their will if you forgot.


I admit, I've grown quite attached to family members and animals, could I bring myself to kill them? most likely not, as I would try reasoning with them, infact, I grow attached to a lot of people, Man alone is easy to love as your own, Mankind as a whole is hard to love, because it is varied, it's emotion's run high and low, and won't hesitate to turn on you in a moment's notice, despite if you would never do the same to them.

This may be sounding like a little bit of a rant, which it is, I'm ranting how I'm very trustful of people and hate them for betrayal, but I am all forgiving, come to me and give up your transgression's against me, and I shall forgive.


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## Wolfbane (Oct 22, 2011)

As to wether this is true or not, I dont know.

However, I can totally believe a pre menstrual uber bitch would destroy a legion for something silly.


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## Jerushee (Nov 18, 2010)

scscofield said:


> So Lux has two accounts here.... Interesting....


Shh....only you...me....and the mods know....


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## Emperors Mercy (Oct 31, 2011)

Ok just sayin, I don't think the emp can even reproduce except on the test tube level. I mean if he just walked around and banged random chicks we'd have more super humans than we know. 2 if he was a she, why would he/she need to make the primarchs in test tubes why not use her own womb? Ultimately I think it's more hinted that the priest seeing it for what it was was a reference to his possible god like possibilities. And the Daemon means nothing. Anatheme means hated one. So you dehumanize something by calling it "it". Even in our world we don't kill people we kill terrorist. Then again on a less serious note the Chaos gods were saying the Emp was a diety who didn't want praise so come praise us. Oh well need sleep tried.. I can't believe I wasted time responding to this topic.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Wow, I thought i had read some retarded bullshit in my time...


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## Emperors Mercy (Oct 31, 2011)

DeathKlokk said:


> Wow, I thought i had read some retarded bullshit in my time...


Airborne!


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Fantastic a completely unfounded theory with zero canonical evidence that is also sexist! What's next?

I've given up trying to reason with you Lux. You never, every supply supporting lore and canon, you just hand wave it all away.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

This is extremely interesting. Not the post. The Billy Madison video completely sums up what I feel about the theory presented. You have two accounts to present and substantiate your own ideas. It looks like you have a problem with honesty as your trying to pass yourself off as two people. I don't think you believe anything you say and you just enjoy getting a rise out of board members. I'm not going to respond to the post idea as it's nothing respectable.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Emperors Mercy said:


> Ok just sayin, I don't think the emp can even reproduce except on the test tube level. I mean if he just walked around and banged random chicks we'd have more super humans than we know. 2 if he was a she, why would he/she need to make the primarchs in test tubes why not use her own womb? Ultimately I think it's more hinted that the priest seeing it for what it was was a reference to his possible god like possibilities. And the Daemon means nothing. Anatheme means hated one. So you dehumanize something by calling it "it". Even in our world we don't kill people we kill terrorist. Then again on a less serious note the Chaos gods were saying the Emp was a diety who didn't want praise so come praise us. Oh well need sleep tried.. I can't believe I wasted time responding to this topic.


In the material it is alluded to that the emperor (empress) actually did biologically reproduce with normal human beings...resulting in the birth of multiple (unknown number) sensei.

Why create the primarchs even if the Emperor (empress) could biologically create children? I imagine the 14 month birth process would hamper her plans in terms of time lines for creating all 20 generals simultaneously...additionally, the empress wanted generals not sons and daughters...and it is shown in the materials (outcast dead for example) that the emperor was willing to willing sacrifice his primarchs as chess pieces in order to win the round...


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Retarded Troll is retarded.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

No ... Just Fucking ....... No. I am actually at a complete loss here. Should we make it standard that people be drug tested? Not for Pot or Cocaine but perhaps to see if people are main veining Liquid Drano?


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## Dawnstar (Jan 21, 2010)

This should sum up the thread quite nicely:










Although, I must say that it's an entertaining idea. Would be interesting to see an alternate story where the Emperor IS a woman


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

DeathKlokk said:


> Retarded Troll is retarded.


Why such cruel words?...I have flamed no one....I even try so har....to explain my perceptions....


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Heresy! *BLAM*


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Someone get the commisars, Lux is at it again.!.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)




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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Moving on however....I do believe most of all the sources in the warhammer 40k verse...point to the emperor being a female....the very concepts of creating life...children....all narrative allusion to the process of giving life.

The primarchs are the children of society....where the emperor is the mother, and the imperium..man...is the father that impregnated the empress. Thus the primarchs are the children and byproduct of society, as seen in their reflection of the emperor's ideals which are the ideals of humanity.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Lux said:


> Moving on however....I do believe most of all the sources in the warhammer 40k verse...point to the emperor being a female....the very concepts of creating life...children....all narrative allusion to the process of giving life.


I see. So, being a woman, what need for cloning vats then? The primarch project took years anyway, why not bear children the traditional way? 

So who was the father? Malcador? 



> The primarchs are the children of society....where the emperor is the mother, and the imperium..man...is the father that impregnated the empress. Thus the primarchs are the children and byproduct of society, as seen in their reflection of the emperor's ideals which are the ideals of humanity.


The Emperor is a parallel to God, the primarchs his arcangels, the astartes angels. They are not the children of society, they were made to shape and control it. That was their purpose, not the other way around.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

Lux said:


> Moving on however....I do believe most of all the sources in the warhammer 40k verse...point to the emperor being a female....the very concepts of creating life...children....all narrative allusion to the process of giving life.
> 
> The primarchs are the children of society....where the emperor is the mother, and the imperium..man...is the father that impregnated the empress. Thus the primarchs are the children and byproduct of society, as seen in their reflection of the emperor's ideals which are the ideals of humanity.


One, that is all I ask for is ONE piece of literature in the Black Library or ANY codex that gives you any kind of leg to stand on.


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## papa nurgle (Jan 11, 2010)

It would seem i have walked in on a heresy domestic... oh dear... sorry Lux, but the heresy fluff operates much like a court of law. if you can't substantiate your claims then the big wig just says no. I don't know you and cannot therefore find a decent reason to actually have any form of grief with you but there's no denying that your digging a very deep hole. The idea that the Emperor was a woman is a little far fetched.. ok very, but don't try to justify your own opinion for the sake of justification itself. I think that this has reached the point where it should just be forgotten. Clearly you have no intention of backing off on your claim and the heresy community is adamant that this theory is completely unfounded. All are entitled to their opinions, but don't use that as an excuse to stir things up.

And guys, name calling isn't our thing. Let's be civil about this.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Wow.....just wow, even for you.


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## Emperors Mercy (Oct 31, 2011)

Watch out serpion he'll use the same reason he used to "unarm" me. I guess we have a 14 month birthing process that the emp wanted to avoid.


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

pssst. I think Lux is emperorguard500 in disguise....


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

No- if the Emperor was a woman, Matt Ward would have had him/her killed off with most of the Sisters of Battle and anything else with mammary glands in the realm of 40k. Probably by Grey Knights or by Trazyn pickling him/her in a water cooler.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

This... This is probably the single most retarded thread you have made... I mean, seriously...? Wow...


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Lux said:


> Why such cruel words?...I have flamed no one....I even try so har....to explain my perceptions....


I'm going to go ahead and keep assuming that you are in fact being completely serious.

When you come out and say something like that, you have to back up what you're saying with some facts. "The Emperor killed off two Legions because it was her period" is not only silly, but it's actually very offensive. There is nothing in the canon to back up this statement, at all. When you say something that inflammatory, with no evidence, people will assume that you're "trolling," or at least not putting any thoughts into what you post on these forums. Either way, you can expect a fairly harsh response (though, for what it's worth, I assumed you were being serious)End state is, you need to think before you post. 

Assuming (again) that you meant for this to be a serious topic of conversation and are honestly confused as to the reaction you're getting, I hope my response will help you understand.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

And this is why I love Lux.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Poor poor Emperor. So confused. Eldar god, C'Tan, FEMALE... this dude has been through more transformations than Madonna.


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## AngelofHope (Mar 14, 2009)

And Lisa Minelli combined.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

i cannot express the NO! of this concept. it just dosnt stand up to any inspection. i second the motion that you should give a book/codex/etc that proves this theory and yet throughout this thread you have failed to do so. also you seem to just pop up with some random comment then hide again and say nothing to everyone else.

P.S. who thinks this will be ignored like the rest?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I think....the majority of you need....to see outside the box....perceive the macro and not purely the micro...

A paradigm restricted is at most blind sights....but when you are able to truly perceive all material in the black library as canon....which it has been stated that everything is canon and not canon....it becomes much more clear....


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

Lux said:


> I think....the majority of you need....to see outside the box....perceive the macro and not purely the micro...
> 
> A paradigm restricted is at most blind sights....but when you are able to truly perceive all material in the black library as canon....which it has been stated that everything is canon and not canon....it becomes much more clear....



Oh christ. I think you might be a genius. I don't know but you might be a genius.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Or a total Tool that think's he's a genius.

My vote's for B.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I am glad some of you understand this, Vaz and C'tan chimera seem to be able to perceive past the boundaries....you would make a unique inquisitor.

Ultimately it lies within the Empeor's understanding of the human psyche seeing as she is the surmised gestalt of tens of thousands of human beings...each of which was thousands of human beings prior to its final incarnation....

The experience in its wake left wisdom...enough to understand that humans follow and respect males more so then females in most societies...of which this literature known as warhammer 40k was based upon....females are seeing as passive...non commanding...thus why therep resence is so minimal in the literature....the Emperor knew this.....it forsaw past the fourth wall and put up a facade so it could not only led humanity more effeciently but also to lead the readers more effeciently...

The majority of the market that belongs to warhammer 40k is primarily males in their early twenties to middle aged age range....this is due to the economic costs of the game as well as its introduction...its market has aged with it....thus the Emperor being the main centerfolding point of the entire Warhammer 40k franchise....knew that in order to stay alive it needed followers...just like the chaos gods who feed on emotion of their followers so too does the emperor feed on the money spent of her followers to keep her alive...

Thus the empress as female took on the guise of a male so her followers could relate to her and her offspring the primarchs better....and thus spend more money to keep her alive...

now do you understand?


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

I don't care if any mod bans me, gives me an infraction or otherwise, but on behalf of the community I must say this:

You are stupid beyond all imagination and you seriously need to stop trolling.


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

Lux said:


> I am glad some of you understand this, Vaz and C'tan chimera seem to be able to perceive past the boundaries....you would make a unique inquisitor.
> 
> Ultimately it lies within the Empeor's understanding of the human psyche seeing as she is the surmised gestalt of tens of thousands of human beings...each of which was thousands of human beings prior to its final incarnation....
> 
> ...


Tell me though, in the actual Codex's and books made by GW, is there any reference of he being called a she? or the Emperor being called an Empress, all I have ever seen(and everyone also too as I've noticed) is you state non existent fact according to us, why? because you have not provided any sourcing.


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## Wusword77 (Aug 11, 2008)




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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

> Why create the primarchs even if the Emperor (empress) could biologically create children? I imagine the 14 month birth process would hamper her plans in terms of time lines for creating all 20 generals simultaneously...


14 Month Birth Process

14 Months

14


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Lux said:


> I think....the majority of you need....to see outside the box....perceive the macro and not purely the micro...


It's one thing thinking outside the box, but you seemed to have climbed outside the box, jumped on it, wrapped it tinfoil and sold it to the hobo down the street for firewood.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

SonOfStan said:


> Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube


I find this response to be hilariously appropriate


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> I don't care if any mod bans me, gives me an infraction or otherwise, but on behalf of the community I must say this:
> 
> You are stupid beyond all imagination and you seriously need to stop trolling.


Let us not resort to verbal assault please....intellectual dicussion of the philosophic proportions of the emperor and their correlations to us....need not involve such....hostility.....


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Lux said:


> Let us not resort to verbal assault please....intellectual dicussion of the philosophic proportions of the emperor and their correlations to us....need not involve such....hostility.....


I'm sorry, but everything that you have posted on this forum has been pretty much a verbal assault on everyone's intellect.

Now post the sources of your Empress theory or otherwise my comments about your lack of intelligence remain valid.


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## papa nurgle (Jan 11, 2010)

Why.... so many full stops.... in the middle.... of sentences? There is no such thing as an asthmatic keyboard. It does not divulge any elderly mysticism unto your area of argumentation. 

You need evidence! An intelligent discussion void of supporting literature is simply a baseless and delusional grab at a justification of your cause. 

Show me evidence and i will treat you to an intelligent discussion. It's that simple.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

My god it all makes sense! And behold this is what the god empress would look like!

Hell she even had enough pseudo magical power to get another race to worshiper her in a alternate form

Trololololo silly thread is now sillier!


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Whaa.. what Heresy is this? The Emperor a... girl. Well I never... time to get my lippy out... :laugh:


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## Azkaellon (Jun 23, 2009)

No read the fluff pretty sure its a DUDE WHEN THEY SAY "HE AND HIM"


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Emperors Mercy said:


> Watch out serpion he'll use the same reason he used to "unarm" me. I guess we have a 14 month birthing process that the emp wanted to avoid.


A battle of wits requires ammo, and I have the infinite ammo cheat so I`ll be fine. 



Lux said:


> I am glad some of you understand this, Vaz and C'tan chimera seem to be able to perceive past the boundaries....you would make a unique inquisitor.
> 
> Ultimately it lies within the Empeor's understanding of the human psyche seeing as she is the surmised gestalt of tens of thousands of human beings...each of which was thousands of human beings prior to its final incarnation....
> 
> ...


I understand completely what you`re trying to say. But as always you lack evidence. You lack any form of compelling source that what you say is credible, instead posting inane crap and trying to pass it off as deep and meaningful. 

This might work on some forums, but not here. FFS, I`ve seen a _furry_ oriented forum that made more sense than your threads. 

This thread has been reported because flaming has already begun and our local mod remains absent. So assume the higher ups will take action, because too much shit starts when you do this Lux.


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

Serpion5 said:


> This might work on some forums, but not here. FFS, I`ve seen a _furry_ oriented forum that made more sense than your threads.


And you know this why? :shok:


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## Digg40k (Sep 7, 2008)

Lux, I don't know what these jokers are talking about. I totally agree with you.


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## yanlou (Aug 17, 2008)

Not again, not one of these god awful theories, were the heck is the evidence to support this, the Emperor a women, ridiculous the fluff does not support this, even reading between the lines has its limits, thats all you can do not this think outside the box which doesnt not work on established fluff, 

so sorry Lux i think its time to go, no one is going to take what you say seriously when you come out with stuff like this all the time and then create a 2nd or 3rd? account to justify yourself

Really this maybe harsh by i say ban all his accounts he really doesnt seem to add anything constructive to the site all he does is rile people up.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

ThoseKrazyKasrkin said:


> And you know this why? :shok:


Because I joined it. How else? :victory:


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

Azkaellon said:


> No read the fluff pretty sure its a DUDE WHEN THEY SAY "HE AND HIM"



Remember that Lux said the Emperor disguised herself? lol, still, I want to see what Lux has as evidence that he was actually a she, and from my looking over all of these pages, Lux has yet to provide any evidence, preferring to go onto a "just trust that I'm right" basis.

Or a:"I have sources that tell me the Emperor was actually an Empress, will I show you my sources? no"


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The fact that he assumes I'm supporting him from my words should disprove any theories.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

yanlou said:


> so sorry Lux i think its time to go, no one is going to take what you say seriously when you come out with stuff like this all the time and then create a 2nd or 3rd? account to justify yourself


And by what right do you have to tell a member of these boards it is time for them to go? Oh yeah I forgot! Your a co-founder of Heresy right? 

No your not? Well then you can most definitely leave calls and decisions like that to the site owner and anyone he allows to make such calls.




yanlou said:


> Really this maybe harsh by i say ban all his accounts he really doesnt seem to add anything constructive to the site all he does is rile people up.


News flash people! We are not the likes of Warseer or some of those other places, we do not crack down and ban people for having theories that others do not agree with as long as they do not cross very clear lines. Baseless theories or not, Lux does not cross those lines (and we are talking quite obvious things, like linking theories to the nazi's or molestation or something.)

Yeah some of this, that Empress having a bad time of the month and wiping out legions, is heading towards those lines but skirting the line is not crossing it. Some people do it every day here, some are even praised for it.


Now last I checked, all Lux is doing is throwing out these theories, some of the idea's are a tad insulting and all of them are lacking in any kind of proof. (Come on Lux, stop skirting around the request and give some of these members evidence so they can either start to understand your thoughts, or give you a more intelligent back and forth rather than resort to the likes off petty trolling.)

And in regards to a number of you in this thread, stow the trolling unless you would all like to find yourselves in a spot of trouble. A word of advice: its not worth it. You don't like what you see here, well you can clearly tell who the OP is and that should be enough for you to avoid the thread, and if its not you can ignore him and not have to worry.


By the way, where did this fourteen month pregnancy thing come from?


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

Vaz said:


> The fact that he assumes I'm supporting him from my words should disprove any theories.



I know, I also want to see proof where it was mentioned he is a she.



darkreever said:


> By the way, where did this fourteen month pregnancy thing come from?


I don't know, but all I've ever asked for when I jumped onto this thread was for proof, as least in my II legion thread I found proof, but it was refuted because it hasn't been pushed since 2nd edition and the legions are both having more and more revealed on htem to an extent to where being actually lost is actual lore.


and my II legion topic was I was DIYing my own legion, but I gave that up upon learning that the legions are officially lost.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

GeneralSturnn said:


> I don't know, but all I've ever asked for when I jumped onto this thread was for proof,


Nothing wrong with that, I don't believe there is a single one of us here that does not want some shred of proof provided.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Maybe Malcador used the bathroom after the Emperor and saw that the toilet seat was down... :biggrin:


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

Let's compromise: the Empra might be _partly_ female.

Why? Because he's meant to be a congealed psychic lump made from a whole bunch of shamans. And who is to say how many of those shamans (shamen? shamens?) were women?


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## ThatOtherGuy (Apr 13, 2010)

Frist off, if this was Lux's first thread about his crack pot theories, then I really wouldn't be so annoyed about it, in fact, might have found it funny.

But the problem lies in the fact that every theory thread that he has coughed up has been without any form of support. In fact he has blatantly refused to give any evidence and instead calls us delusional fools based upon his own whacked out reality. While he is certainty not flat out calling us retards, he is defiantly stirring the pot in which a rational person can tell that he is doing for his own amusement. If making silly theories that makes the community lash out as a probably form of entertainment is not trolling, then I have no idea what is.

My two cents.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

ThatOtherGuy said:


> Frist off, if this was Lux's first thread about his crack pot theories, then I really wouldn't be so annoyed about it, in fact, might have found it funny.
> 
> But the problem lies in the fact that every theory thread that he has coughed up has been without any form of support. In fact he has blatantly refused to give any evidence and instead calls us delusional fools based upon his own whacked out reality. While he is certainty not flat out calling us retards, he is defiantly stirring the pot in which a rational person can tell that he is doing for his own amusement. If making silly theories that makes the community lash out as a probably form of entertainment is not trolling, then I have no idea what is.


Alright well here's the deal: this is not Lux's first thread, you and many others damn well know that. You are fully aware by now that he does not support his wild theories, and some of those are fairly insulting.

So when you see a new thread by him what does that mean you should do? Why ignore it of course.


You should already know from past experience with Lux that he will not comply with the request of proof, and that all responding to him will do is make you look worse for it. So as they say, stop feeding the troll and move the fuck on.

Because really, its that hard for you not to respond right?


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

I dont know fluff tbh or background i only paint. 

But this is how i picture the big E. Note lack of chesticles.


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## Sturmovic (Jun 18, 2011)

stevey293 said:


> I dont know fluff tbh or background i only paint.
> 
> But this is how i picture the big E. Note lack of chesticles.


Horus on the other hand.....


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

The best way to deal with threads of this nature is to counter them with even further insanity till the op self destructs. I recommend some theories about the emperor being a autobot. Or maybe secretly a chaos god?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Lux said:


> The majority of the market that belongs to warhammer 40k is primarily males in their early twenties to middle aged age range....this is due to the economic costs of the game as well as its introduction...its market has aged with it....thus the Emperor being the main centerfolding point of the entire Warhammer 40k franchise....knew that in order to stay alive it needed followers...just like the chaos gods who feed on emotion of their followers so too does the emperor feed on the money spent of her followers to keep her alive...
> 
> Thus the empress as female took on the guise of a male so her followers could relate to her and her offspring the primarchs better....and thus spend more money to keep her alive...





Lux said:


> *....and thus spend more money to keep her alive...*


Priceless. Utterly priceless.

Lux. *You are not an Inquisitor.* This game is a *fantasy*, a science fiction wrought by the minds of some bearded dudes back in the 80s. Again, I stress, *it is not real.* The Emperor does not sustain Himself with the net profits of Games Workshop inc.

My evidence? Why, the fluff stating that the Black Ships gather up psykers to power the Golden Throne. That is what keeps the Emperor 'alive'. Read up on it, you will find it most enlightening.

Midnight


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

In regards to being a chaos god, I do actually believe the Emperor may be one....in the sense that just as the chaos gods feed off emotion, he too feeds off of those who believe in him....

Think about it...the chaos gods only exist because others believe in them, through word and deed. 

The emperor only exist because others only believe in her/him due to that others believe in her/him through word and deed (buying warhammer 40k materials). Thus the company is able to continue to exist and as such so does the emperor being their creation.

I think games workshop is genius in that the emperor is a symbolization of their fans and markets spending, the souls that feed the emperor every day, is in fact the money spent on warhammer 40k every day.

Its why I state the emperor clearly is aware of us in this universe, and breaks the fourth wall of fiction.

Emperor > Chaos gods in terms of awareness of us


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Lux, the naysayers have failed to address the infamous Storm of the Emperor's Wrath.

Perhaps the Emperor, or should I say Empress, had an infatuation with Sebastian Thor hence her need to protect him from the clutches of Vandire?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I do believe the empress affects the current verse of warhammer 40k with her will, so it is possible


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## spanner94ezekiel (Jan 6, 2011)

He's back!


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## Kickback (May 9, 2008)

Lux said:


> In regards to being a chaos god, I do actually believe the Emperor may be one....in the sense that just as the chaos gods feed off emotion, he too feeds off of those who believe in him....
> 
> Think about it...the chaos gods only exist because others believe in them, through word and deed.
> 
> ...


Just in case I have this wrong, you think that the fictional Emperor of WH40K has an influence in this dimension/universe, in our actual flesh and blood lives?

On to the original topic, you said Big E, fell in love with Horus, does that mean you dont think that Horus was his (her :dunno: ) son?
Because if you do that is a little on the strange side, even for 40k...though I suppose it does explain why the Black Legion look like they currently do


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Darkreever. I see the points you have made regarding this sort of thing and I agree that, once read it should be ignored. The problem is that this kind of rubbish greatly cheapens or lessens the heresy online experience. And that is a shame.


My thoughts on the subject are as follows. The emperor was created by GW. And in all their literature the emperor is depicted and described as male. There is absolutely no indication that the emperor is female. And that should be it. As for proof, I would suggest reading the Horus heresy series, or possibly The Collected Visions. I distinctly remember several of the primarchs refer to the emperor as father. However I will admit that there are no pictures in the collected visions of the emperors 'Tackle' which would be helpful in this case.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Not to mention the fact GW hate none elf woman, I mean just look at SoB. Going by GW track record it would be far more likely if all the SoB turned out to be overly effeminate men, then for the supreme leader of mankind to turn out to be female.


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## C'Tan Chimera (Aug 16, 2008)

shaantitus said:


> However I will admit that there are no pictures in the collected visions of the emperors 'Tackle' which would be helpful in this case.


And I think I speak on the behalf of every sentient being on this planet when I say that I really don't need to see that. I don't want to have to write in my autbiography one day _"...And when I saw the Emperor's dong, I knew I could never go back to playing 40k, for every time they called him The Emperor, that shining appendage was all that entered my mind."_


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

> And I think I speak on the behalf of every sentient being on this planet when I say that I really don't need to see that. I don't want to have to write in my autbiography one day "...And when I saw the Emperor's dong, I knew I could never go back to playing 40k, for every time they called him The Emperor, that shining appendage was all that entered my mind."


It would explain though why everyone bows in his presence. A Dong as "Glorious" as the Emperor's would be something to drop to your knees in awe at.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

"my dick is so big it has it's own dick, and my dick's dick is bigger than your dick!"

The Emper*or*


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

Lux, we all want proof, and as long as you do not present any proof of the Emperor being a woman, you will be continued to be insulted, infact you insult the lot of us by saying he's a woman and decided

:"my word should be enough despite the fact that GW themselves call the Emperor a guy, their wrong, I'm right"

Now, if you can provide the non existent proof he's a woman, then I'm sure we'll all apologize, but saying The Emperor was a female insults the lot of us, as unlike you, we read, even the Rulebooks and codex's describe him as a dude.


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

I think I may have inadvertantly derailed this thread, and for that I apologise.


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## papa nurgle (Jan 11, 2010)

GeneralSturnn said:


> Lux, we all want proof, and as long as you do not present any proof of the Emperor being a woman, you will be continued to be insulted, infact you insult the lot of us by saying he's a woman and decided
> 
> :"my word should be enough despite the fact that GW themselves call the Emperor a guy, their wrong, I'm right"
> 
> Now, if you can provide the non existent proof he's a woman, then I'm sure we'll all apologize, but saying The Emperor was a female insults the lot of us, as unlike you, we read, even the Rulebooks and codex's describe him as a dude.



HERE HERE!


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

Chompy Bits said:


> Maybe Malcador used the bathroom after the Emperor and saw that the toilet seat was down... :biggrin:


:laugh: Rep! :goodpost:
Oh, damn, that is Heresy isn't it? Right *Chompy Bits*, go stand in the corner and do some pennance


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

The Empress fell in love with Horus due to the Empress only ever acknowledging herself as truly real....within each primarch was an essence of the empress made manifest....it was here that the empress was truly drawn to Horus...for Horus was in fact a reflection of her own self....

The Empress was able to love Horus due to that she was in effect loving her own self....

Now do you see?


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Lux said:


> The Empress fell in love with Horus due to the Empress only ever acknowledging herself as truly real....within each primarch was an essence of the empress made manifest....it was here that the empress was truly drawn to Horus...for Horus was in fact a reflection of her own self....
> 
> The Empress was able to love Horus due to that she was in effect loving her own self....
> 
> Now do you see?


The Emperor loving a part of himself does not require him to be a woman. A dude can love his son if said son takes after him (or hell even if he doesn't). Love isn't a female-only emotion.

This isn't evidence Lux. This is you using your idea to support your idea. It's circular and fallacious. (and shallow and pedantic)


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

I am actually sitting here wetting myself.

Needed a laugh today.


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

Lux said:


> The Empress fell in love with Horus due to the Empress only ever acknowledging herself as truly real....within each primarch was an essence of the empress made manifest....it was here that the empress was truly drawn to Horus...for Horus was in fact a reflection of her own self....
> 
> The Empress was able to love Horus due to that she was in effect loving her own self....
> 
> Now do you see?



IF you want to be taken seriously Lux, READ, READ, READ my post, READ it, and... what's up... with... typing like... this...?

what you NEED to be taken seriously(Hell, I even consider you a crackpot right now, but I'm trying to help you, I'm too generous aren't I?)

1: evidence
This does not mean you citing non-existent books or works, this means citing pages of a particular book, and paragraph.

2: stop assuming everyone is attacking you
Your giving us all a massive insult by proclaiming the Emperor is a woman, then you yourself feel we're attacking you, ofcourse we're attacking you, your insulting ALL of us.



follow my steps, and we just might take you a little more seriously, now do you see?



read not only this post, but my other posts, infact, read everyone's post who asks for evidence.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Vaz said:


> I am actually sitting here wetting myself.
> 
> Needed a laugh today.


Vaz sits while she pees... thus due to the typing and laughing.... Vaz is a woman... Vaz just conceals her love for herself by posting in her own personal idiom...

Now I understand.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I can not wait until Ploss gets home from vacation, this is going to be fun to watch opcorn:


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

If the truth about the Emperor's massive godman balls became widely known, I can imagine it changing a lot about the Imperium.

"I am the Sword in His left hand, and the Dong in His Right." -69th Canticle of Banishment (Censored by Order of the Inquisition)


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

DeathKlokk said:


> Vaz said:
> 
> 
> > I am actually sitting here wetting myself.
> ...


:laugh: I laughed *SO* hard when I read this. Almost became a woman myself... almost. :wink: 


My fellow Heretics...

I know many of you get frustrated with poor Lux (have to admit, I have been myself once or twice in past threads), however, in time I've come to see Lux for the genius he is. 

Let me explain.


There aren't many members on this forum who can consistently create topics that so thoroughly and inexorably draw you in, so much so, that their title alone practically _*wills*_ you to view it. In addition, there aren't many of the forums nearly 33,000 members, who are able to generate such a large level of interest concerning their threads (100+ posts, 2,250+ views, and still going!). Lastly, while there are a good number of individuals who consistently deliver high levels of entertainment on the forum, there are few indeed who can say they do so with every post.

Seriously, every one of Lux's posts on this thread made me laugh... are there many of us who can say the same? 

If you can get past the complete lack of literary evidence, the alarming disregard for authorial intent, and the over abundance of erroneous circular reasoning... it's all quite funny really. Seriously... hat's off to you Lux for consistently creating high quality entertaining threads on this forum! :good: You've certainly made my day brighter. 

...the emperor a woman that has incest like feelings for her son Horus. :laugh: :laugh: Again, hat's off to you Lux. Keep up the good work! :good:


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

Uber Ork said:


> Seriously, every one of Lux's posts on this thread made me laugh... are there many of us who can say the same?


yes, emperorguard500


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## Konrad_von_Carstein (Nov 21, 2011)

Konrad is confused 
Konrad has laughed


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I suppose I'll further expand to try to explain what most of you seem to be lacking. I will use source materials just as you have stated...in outcast dead the chess board of reality is admist the empress and her pawns....she clearly and candidly sacrifices a warrior piece so she is able to draw out the game and continue it.....

In the end she is faced directly (her the king piece) against the opposing players king piece Horus, now due to her love so much for him beyond that of a creation and son....she purposely puts her self into a situation where she can forever have Horus entirely to herself...forever...

She erases his soul and any anchor it had to the universe, thus it bonded with the Empress soul, thus why Draco when he is in the presence of the Emperor hears multiple voices.....for it is the Empress and Horus....now one communicating amongst themself...

The empress purposely used her love to will Horus to become close to the chaos gods so he would become empowered by all of Chaos...and in the end she sacrificed her mortal shell along with Horus's her most passionate source of.....close affection....so she could consume the power of chaos and use it together with Horus....

Horus became the keeper of the knowledge and power and chaos....the empress consumed Horus and thus consumed the power of Chaos....it was neccesary to achieve the next step in evolution.....

Do you now better understand?


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Lux should write slash fiction. His style of prose is...just so...tantalizing...


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Lux said:


> Do you now better understand?


We understand that you think the Emperor is a woman. I think what we don't understand is what official (actual Black Library book and/or codex) reference you're using to defend your theory. 

For instance, can you provide an official line of text (again from a Black Library book and/or codex) that states "the Emperor was a woman?" Can you provide one bit of official fluff that uses the pronoun she, her, etc. when referencing the Emperor? Can you come up with one single time (and I do mean any) that a Black Library book and/or codex uses the term "Empress" instead of Emperor?


Because you are lacking these official references, people have a hard time supporting your assertion that the Emperor is female.





.


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

Lux said:


> Do you now better understand?



I understand you are totally avoiding the requests for a source. 

Maybe if it is shown to you in a colorful manner it will help get the message across. 

*Just one mother fucking page NUMBER!*

Just one piece of BL background material which verifies your theory. That is all we are asking for. PLEASE, just one.


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## Brother Emund (Apr 17, 2009)

I cannot remember the book it was in but it was after the parade at Ullnor. I remember what the Emperor said now, and *Lux* might well be right.
He turned to the gathered Primachs, specifically Horus and said
'Horus, sugarplum. You and the boys carry on with your chores. I'm off back to Terra because there is a meeting of the WI tonight'

There you have it, proof that the Emperor was a woman.

*WI*= _Women's Institute_


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Uber Ork said:


> :laugh: I laughed *SO* hard when I read this. Almost became a woman myself... almost. :wink:
> 
> 
> My fellow Heretics...
> ...


Well put. I had not realised it before.
LUX IS A JOKE.
Whoever it is that put this gag together is doing a sterling job.


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## DeathKlokk (Jun 9, 2008)

Troll, not joke.


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## Gluttoniser (Aug 14, 2010)

Why the hell is everyone reacting so seriously. I mean you can almost smell the trollsweat dripping off the OP.


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## Bane_of_Kings (Oct 28, 2009)

So, let's see. In the Lux,000 Universe, we have:

A female Emperor/(ess) falling for Horus, his(her) own son. 
Lorgar being the most powerful psyker out of the Primarchs. (Including Magnus).
A Weak-Willed Fulgrim.
The Night Lords being the Emperor's Executioners.
The Sanguine Mistress being created from Sanguinius that leads an army of violent individuals.
Horus actually being the Soldier of Salvation, the renegade Primarchs the good guys, and the loyal Primarchs the bad ones.
Alpharius and Omegon not existing, with Alpharius actually one Primarch under a different name that created two twin Primarchs to operate more safely.
A staged assassination of Konrad Curze and the Night Lords Primarch actually being alive.
Sanguinius turning to Horus and being killed by the Emperor on the _Vengeful Spirit_.
Ferrus Manus alive and well on Mars.

Well, this could be a whole new universe on its own. I for one would love to hear more.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

So thats what? Nearly a dozen threads/theories and some people are still surprised or upset when they see work by Lux?


Lux, the Inquisition War is very, very out of date stuff. Watson himself said so in his introduction to the omnibus when it came out. I'm for all black library work being canon, but retconning does make old fluff invalid.

Other than that, all these members have been asking you for sources and references and citing of stuff, and the only stuff you have deemed worthy enough is ancient fluff long since made invalid (and said as much by its *author*) and the vaguest reference to a Heresy novel. (You cite nothing in particular, just drop the name of the book.)


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

I remember a guy on another forum trying to use similar convoluted logic to link the early ages of 40k humanity (i.e. before the Dark Age of Technology) to Star Trek. Yep, he said we had Star Trek in our 40k. I facepalmed then, and I'll facepalm now.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

It is obvious Lux is too afraid to reveal the full truth on this mater. I present the pictorial proof of the Emp's true form....











This proof has been long hidden away from the masses because of the chaos it would cause....

 

Sorry, it is just this is the type of things that spring to mind when I see these threads. It is had to even think about them with a serious note when there is no real hard proof to back the theory presented in them up.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Davidicus 40k said:


> I remember a guy on another forum trying to use similar convoluted logic to link the early ages of 40k humanity (i.e. before the Dark Age of Technology) to Star Trek. Yep, he said we had Star Trek in our 40k. I facepalmed then, and I'll facepalm now.


I know absolutely fuck-all about Star Trek, but it is possible that pretty much anything (including many other sci-fi settings) occured in the many millennia before what is known about the Dark Age of Technology within the 40k universe.

There is literally a period of roughly twenty thousand years of human history that nothing is known about (apart from the slow and steady advancement of human space exploration and overall advancement of technology - leading into the DAoT), anything could have happened. Using an simple example, the events of the _Killzone_ series could have easily happened within the 40k universe.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I know absolutely fuck-all about Star Trek, but it is possible that pretty much anything (including many other sci-fi settings) occured in the many millennia before what is known about the Dark Age of Technology within the 40k universe.
> 
> There is literally a period of roughly twenty thousand years of human history that nothing is known about (apart from the slow and steady advancement of human space exploration and overall advancement of technology - leading into the DAoT), anything could have happened. Using an simple example, the events of the _Killzone_ series could have easily happened within the 40k universe.


Or _Dead Space_. :shok: ::shiver:: The Emperor protects...


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> So, let's see. In the Lux,000 Universe, we have:
> 
> A female Emperor/(ess) falling for Horus, his(her) own son.
> Lorgar being the most powerful psyker out of the Primarchs. (Including Magnus).
> ...


Man, I'm sorry I missed some of these. I can only guess at the entertainment level something like Sanguinius having turned disloyal, joining Horus, and being killed by the Emperor would have created.  


You know, there is one thing we haven't considered here. It is possible, however unlikely, that Lux literally does not understand what citing literary proof looks like. It could be that in whatever country Lux hails from, they do not require or value this. Therefore Lux perceives he is giving what is asked for, all the while missing the mark because he simply doesn't know what it looks like. 

In an effort to help you Lux, I'll give you an example of how to properly cite (quote) literary proof when making an argument. The process requires two things. That you make your initial argument, and that you back it up with proof. 



*1.) Making your initial argument.* Making your initial argument is done by creating a thesis statement. A thesis statement should be short, to the point, and should capture people's attention (you nail this part, you really do). In it you state your theory, for example "Was the Emperor actually a woman?"

You posed a question that was short, to the point and that clearly captured peoples attention (it did mine! :grin: ). Next you'll want to support that by citing (directly quoting) official works, which brings us to the next part... 



*2.) Backing up your argument with proof.* This is where you fall short. The most important thing to remember is that the majority of the people on this forum, and the nations they hail from, require an argument/theory to be backed up by solid proof that comes from outside sources.

An outside source means something other than yourself/your opinions. While your opinions are as valid as anyones, they are not considered official. To be official you would need to quote authors (novel or codex) who have been officially hired to write for either the Black Library or Games Workshop directly. These sources, actually working for GW or the BL, are considered to be official. As well, current fluff that changes fluff in the past, is more official than the older material (for example, Necrons are no longer under the C'tan as the new Necron Codex states verses the older dex).

I believe you think you are offering this, but since you offer no direct quotes from official GW or BL authors, you're really only offering your own opinion. 

So to recap. When offering proof, it should (A) come form an official GW or BL source, (B) the exact book, codex, rulebook, etc. should be named, (C) the quote should be typed/cut and pasted word ford for word from its original source, and (D) page numbers should be given so people can verify your work (if you want to be really nice, provide more detailed information on the exact location like "second paragraph," etc.).


Here's an example...

I propose the Emperor was/is a man (this is my thesis statement).

To support this I'll offer an example (at least one, more are nice) from a Black Library book, the main rulebook, and/or a codex. In this case I'll directly quote a section from a codex.

In the current Chaos Space Marine Codex on Pg. 7 in the section entitled _*Creation of the Space Marines*_ we see this in the first two paragraphs...


> "When the Emperor revealed himself on Earth to embark on his quest to reunify scattered Mankind, it was at the head of an army of altered super-warriors -- the predecessors to the Space Marines. With the conquest of the steppe techno-barbarians, and the other tribes paying homage to the Emperor, the savior of Mankind turned his eyes to the distant stars.
> 
> His warriors were greater than anything they had fought on Earth, but the Emperor knew much about the grotesque beasts and shadowy threats that lurked out in the darkness of the galaxy. He set about improving his genetic alteration techniques, to perfect the warrior genes he would need to create an army capable of reconquering the galaxy. The pinnacle of his success was the Primarch program, within which the Emperor used his own rich genetic code to create twenty super-beings, each with the strength of a dozen men and intelligence almost equal to that of the Emperor himself."


As you can see from my highlighting key nouns and pronouns every single mention of the Emperor in these two paragraphs is male.

*Emperor* = *male* term for the leader of an Empire. The female term, as you've pointed out... Empress, is not used at all when referring to the Emperor. 

*Himself*, *his*, *he* all = _*male*_ pronouns. Female pronouns "herself, her, she," are (again) not used at all when referring to the Emperor. 



By using this direct quote from a GW official source (in this case Codex: Chaos Space Marines) I've shown how in a mere two paragraphs, the Emperor is refereed to *15* different times as being male. Doing this, creates a strong defense for my initial thesis that the Emperor is male.



Ok, now it's your turn. You cite (quote) an official GW or BL source with page number(s), etc. 




.


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## stevey293 (Aug 16, 2011)

Would of been easier to find and give him a slap with the codex than write all that down.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> I know absolutely fuck-all about Star Trek, but it is possible that pretty much anything (including many other sci-fi settings) occured in the many millennia before what is known about the Dark Age of Technology within the 40k universe.


That's true, but see what I mean? Since we know nothing about it... well, that was this particular Star Trek fan's entire line of reasoning. "We don't know what happened back then, so even though there's little evidence to suggest the events of Star Trek happened before the Dark Age of Technology, there's also little evidence to suggest they didn't, therefore I'm right and you're wrong." Problem is, Star Trek was designed to ponder humanity's moral issues, while 40k was designed to shoot aliens in the face. Do you really want the two associated in any way, shape, or form?

With Lux, it's, "We've never ACTUALLY seen the Emperor and it's all heavily propagandized, so I'll take some facts and draw false corroborations and parallels to come up with this crazy conclusion: Emperor = GIRL!" 

Now, the Dead Space universe would be far more logical .


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

Davidicus 40k said:


> Now, the Dead Space universe would be far more logical .


The entire time I was cringing and cowering through Dead Space 2, I kept telling myself that any moment now the Deathwatch is going to show up to save me. It's pretty much the only thing that got me through. :biggrin:


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Lux said:


> She erases his soul and any anchor it had to the universe, thus it bonded with the Empress soul,


So (s)he erased Horus' soul and then bonded his now absent soul with herself. How exactly does that work?



> so she could consume the power of chaos and use it together with Horus....


So... The Emperor consumed Chaos and now uses it? I guess that perfectly explains why the Gods still exist and their followers actively seek the destruction of everything the Emperor built.



> Horus became the keeper of the knowledge and power and chaos....the empress consumed Horus and thus consumed the power of Chaos....it was neccesary to achieve the next step in evolution.....


Lux, do you understand that this isn't evidence? What you are doing here is expanding your theory to cover other, equally improbable, hypothesis. What you need to do is backtrack and provide evidence to support that the Emperor is a woman before going on to say stuff like "She wanted to sleep with Horus and then ate Chaos so people could evolve". Prove your point before you continue. PROVE it, with facts and evidence.


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## GeneralSturnn (Feb 20, 2011)

Oh, and Lux, calling us "Single minded" is now being turned against you.


First off, GW confirmed him(books/Codex's, EVERYTHING to be male)

Second you say we're not thinking out of the box or being too close minded, well, you too, instead of accepting the fact that the Emperor is male, you continue to say he is a she.

and to top it off your very single minded about us accepting your views without proof, now do you see?


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## papa nurgle (Jan 11, 2010)

Oh dearie me then... all i see is a seething mass of troll. When we unhinge our frustration upon Lux, we are just falling into the well played trap of trolling. Unfortunately, whether our words are harsh or supportive, they are perceived as comments none the less. If you feed the beast, it will grow. It does not separate the good man from the bad. Both are simply food.

Although i cannot say that this thread has not made me laugh, but come on people, there is no need to get so worked up about it.

All are entitled to their opinions. However it is the job of us sane people to make sure the delusional do not wander the streets.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Trolling without breaking the rules = Thread traffic. 

It is harmless, so long as it abides by forum rules.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

It's also pointless and makes a mockery of the other threads. 

Trolling without breaking the rules is spam pure and simple. There is no discussion value to luxes questions or theories, no debate, just petty trolling which amounts only to spam.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Then stop posting.  

Report, and move on. To make myself clear, I have reported already, and the mods are aware of this thread. 

I do agree with you in principle and given the hammer and key I would have locked the thread myself when the shit started. But mine is not to reason why.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

SonOfStan said:


> Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube


What a pointless contribution to this thread.

The member in question does not adhere to canon and cannot support his theories with anything concrete and already established. I've been away from this site for a while now, debating in other places, and posting a rude video comment shows your own ineptitude and immaturity.

Instead of bashing the member in question, why not try to educate him towards a more mainstream and accepted view on the Emperor? If you believe his views are misguided, then try to change them. If you don't have the time, don't post unnecessary and frankly out of date video responses that contribute to this thread in no meaningful way.

If this member's theories are wild and do not correlate to the mainstream opinion, simply ignore him. The less publicity his thread's receive, the less likely he will be to post such things again. If you take great offence to what he proposes then report him as a last resort.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Bane_of_Kings said:


> So, let's see. In the Lux,000 Universe, we have:
> 
> A female Emperor/(ess) falling for Horus, his(her) own son.


''Falling'' can be meant in a non-sexual way. You've never heard of Oedipus from Greek Mythology I take it.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Lorgar being the most powerful psyker out of the Primarchs. (Including Magnus).


Lorgar is certainly one of the most powerful Psykers of the Primarch caste. Canonical feats and hype put Magnus higher than him, but it isn't far-fetched to suggest Lorgar is a contender _after_ Magnus.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> A Weak-Willed Fulgrim.


Again, his interpretation of the canon differs from your own. There were moments in _Fulgrim_ where the Primarch appeared to be very weak-willed and it is arguable that giving in to the Daemon Laeren after slaying Ferrus Manus was an act of weakness that showed Fulgrim's desire for release. Slaanesh didn't corrupt Fulgrim as such, Slaanesh merely manipulated Fulgrim's character flaws - something an atomically-perfect being like a Primarch _should_ be void from.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> The Night Lords being the Emperor's Executioners.


It depends how you view the noun ''Executioners''. The Night Lords were the psychological tools of the Emperor, perfect at psychologically manipulating and breaking a populance, a Xenos species or even another Legion. Take _Blood Reaver_ for example and the attack on the Monastery. If you view it in a more judical role, then this clearly doesn't fit the Night Lords. It would fit the Dark Angels better. Thinking of the Night Lords simply as infiltrators is too shallow. You could attribute the same thing to the Raven Guard or Alpha Legion. The Night Lords may not be the Space Wolves - who exist to destroy that which defies the Emperor's ''Greater Good'', but they're easily the most psychologically potent Legion of the documented eighteen. Just like the Thousand Sons were the most potent Psykers.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Horus actually being the Soldier of Salvation, the renegade Primarchs the good guys, and the loyal Primarchs the bad ones.


You realise the Horus Heresy's main goal is to blur the lines between good and evil, don't you? If you cling to the chidlish, two-dimensional view that the Emperor was altruistic, Horus was wholly bad and his fellow, fallen Primarchs were themselves ''evil'' at the time of the Heresy, you have a very narrow-minded view of a book series that seeks to broaden the mind's perception and morality, especially in regards to good, evil and Religion.

_False Gods_ goes into express detail to present the idea, the possiblity, that Horus was destined to save the Imperium from rot and malcontent. Though this is only a theory, it was a clever plot device used by McNeill to allow us to consider what is good and what is evil, and who are the pawns of each ideology: the Loyalists or the Traitors? Traitor doesn't necessarily mean bad, it simply means rebellious to an establishment. For example in 1984, the establishment is not something that is good, despite claiming to further humanity's advancement.

The Horus Heresy is not black and white. I can't believe I'm saying this to _you_ of all people. Each Primarch was manipulated in one way or another and even after their dissension their loyalties were still under question. Perhaps only the World Eaters and Word Bearers were utterly sworn to Chaos during the Heresy. It wasn't until the civil-wars in the Eye of Terror and the first few Black Crusades that Chaos could be considered purely ''evil''.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Alpharius and Omegon not existing, with Alpharius actually one Primarch under a different name that created two twin Primarchs to operate more safely.


I haven't witnessed this thread myself, but if Lux cannot strengthen his argument with something tangible, then it should be ignored.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> A staged assassination of Konrad Curze and the Night Lords Primarch actually being alive.


Until _Soul Hunter_ was released, the Night Lords had so little canon that such a theory was possible. After AD-B expanded the lore, such a theory is no longer feasible. Once more we can conclude that Lux is drastically out of date with his theories.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Sanguinius turning to Horus and being killed by the Emperor on the _Vengeful Spirit_.


And how can you discredit this theory? The Horus Heresy series is constantly changing the old canon. In fact the old canon that has been established for years is no longer canonical. It's a precursor of the current fluff at best. Who is to say that the Black Library team, supervised by Alan Merret won't take this direction for a dramatic plot-twist? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Ferrus Manus alive and well on Mars.


He clearly hasn't read _Fulgrim_ and if he has, he has either misrepresented or forgotten the canon that states otherwise. Considering the secretive nature of the Mechanicum and the near-cyborg nature of Ferrus Manus such a theory isn't _too _wild. Of course, the *Burden of Proof* dictates Lux must support his claim, but that's subsidiary to why I'm quoting you.



Bane_of_Kings said:


> Well, this could be a whole new universe on its own. I for one would love to hear more.


No, you don't. Don't encourage this member. Either enlighten him to what you believe is correct, or keep your *Poisoning the Well* fallacies out of this and don't mock unless you're fully capable to disprove everything he claims with pinpoint evidence. In other words, canon may be the law, but the law is _not_ the truth and can be interpreted several ways. Literature is *subjective* _not_ *objective* like Mathematics. Someone with your intelligence should be aware of such.


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## SonOfStan (Feb 20, 2011)

bobss said:


> What a pointless contribution to this thread.
> 
> The member in question does not adhere to canon and cannot support his theories with anything concrete and already established. I've been away from this site for a while now, debating in other places, and posting a rude video comment shows your own ineptitude and immaturity.


I'm an immature person. In my spare time I spend hours laughing about poop and the word 'vagina.' 

Relax mate. There's plenty of room here for a joke. There were a lot of funny, witty, graphic-y responses to this, and frankly, I don't feel bad for laughing. If I might be so bold, you're taking this whole thing a bit too seriously.


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

The emperor is a man where does it state he isn't a man


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

kavyanshrike said:


> The emperor is a man where does it state he isn't a man


To be brutally honest, the Emperor was neither male _or_ female, at least in the way we perceive it; biologically, psychologically or mentally. I mean, if older canon is to be believed the Emperor is the agglomeration of Old Earth Shamans that have taken the appearance of a man, ironically something _similar_ to Jesus, or at least what Renaissance paintings believe Jesus looked like, albeit in a romanticised way.

The Emperor, for all intents and purposes, may _look_ like a man, but he isn't - he's _so much more_ than a man. He's superhuman, but in such a way that even the Primarchs, the Custodians and the Astartes are below him.

Depending on how you define God, and definitions do indeed vary, the title could be attributed to him. The Greek Gods and before them the generations of Titans looked human, but they aren't. After all, if Gods were humans, Demi-Gods wouldn't exist in the Greek Mythos.

The Emperor _actually_ being a man is a misconception that I hope is cleared up and answered in a plausible fashion by the end of the series. The Black Library team are dropping in certain shreds of meat in regards to the Emperor, gradually building up to a banquet of information. They're doing this on purpose to increase speculation, debates on forums and to add some depth to the Horus Heresy saga by challenging our already established views.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

While his power may be unisex in origin the Emperor was a man. How:

The term Emperor is male. If he wanted to be seen as a woman they would call him the Empress of mankind.

All his sons refer to him as "father." Even Magnus and later Lorgar who can divine true warp presence still refer to him as a man. 

Aliens such as Eldrad Ulthran who would know and see past any trickery still refer to the Emepror as a man. 

There's no canon anywhere that can refute the Emperor as a man. If you want to use the christian savior as an example fine. Though he may have been a supernatural force in heaven,when he was born here on earth he was a man. The Emperor may have started as something else but in the end he was a man.


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

Deadeye776 said:


> While his power may be unisex in origin the Emperor was a man. How:


You've fallen into the trap of applying human perceptions to a being who is beyond comprehension. Although definitions vary, as I stated, the Emperor was akin to a God.



Deadeye776 said:


> The term Emperor is male. If he wanted to be seen as a woman they would call him the Empress of mankind.


This is more than semantics. Just because the Emperor's gender was male, doesn't mean he was a man.

Gender =/= Sex.

Psychology =/= Biology.



Deadeye776 said:


> All his sons refer to him as "father." Even Magnus and later Lorgar who can divine true warp presence still refer to him as a man.


In a Science-fiction setting, the pronoun ''father'' isn't applicable to humans only.



Deadeye776 said:


> Aliens such as Eldrad Ulthran who would know and see past any trickery still refer to the Emepror as a man.


Baseless assumption on two levels.

Eldrad Ulthran's powers being capable of discerning a being who was so powerful he caused the _Chaos Gods_ to unite against him. 

Eldrad may also refer to the Emperor's gender, not his biology.



Deadeye776 said:


> There's no canon anywhere that can refute the Emperor as a man.


Argumentam ad Ignoratum. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.



Deadeye776 said:


> If you want to use the christian savior as an example fine. Though he may have been a supernatural force in heaven,when he was born here on earth he was a man. The Emperor may have started as something else but in the end he was a man.


Different interpretation of what my analogy was aiming for.


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

bobss said:


> Eldrad may also refer to the Emperor's gender not his biology
> 
> Argumentam ad Ignoratum. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense.


So his gender is male but hes not a man. Well, hes human or at least descended from humans so male = man, unless im missing something here. I believe many god througout history had a gender. Plus hes not an entirely psychic construct as he exists i the material realm so hes not a god rather, godlike

So by your second point i suppose youve never heard of circumstantial evidence? Ill have to try that point in court one day....


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

The fact you said just because his gender was male doesn't mean he's a man makes the rest of your post almost unreadable. There are no real "Gods" in 40k. Why? 

Khorne- While ultra powerful is not omnisceint or omnipresent. He's for all intents and purposes insane. The blood god spills blood because he likes seeing blood spilt. He has not plan as instead of creating his subjects he was created by the sentient warp sensitive creatures. Gods create their underlings,not the other way around. 

The Emperor- While HE was close to being all powerful, his life was saved. He himself (being one of the most intelligent humans to walk the universe) knew what a god was and said that not only was he not one,but they didn't exist at ALL. 

Tzeentch- Like his brothers is insane as his only focuses is driven by the sentient thoughts that created himlotting and change. If he was to ever come to the frutition of a plan and see his goals realized it would be his end as he would have no more reason to exist. He cannot divine the future which if you look up the definition of GOD means he should be able to as omniscience is a requirement.

Nurgle-He's fat and out of shape with bad body odor. A God would be capable of being all things and nothing at once. The concept in itself is beyond what the gods are capable of. Why?The Abrahamic God manifested many times in the bible. The Chaos gods are not capable of bringing their real presence and containing it within this universe without destroying it. Look at the eye of terror. If slaanesh had any control of his birth event he would have kept the eldar race falling slowly like the humans instead of wise to his tastes and running for their lives. 

Slaanesh- He lost to Khorne and Nurgle. A real god as being all powerful wouldn't be able to be defeated. 

The Emperor is a man. He has never been referred to otherwise. If you want to speculate that he might be then that's your right. However you can't tell me that I'm wrong saying he's a man when you don't have one shred of evidence INSIDE the story of 40k. Citing outside sources you have divined doesn't count. No where in this story has the Emperor been seen as behaving as anything feminine. While he played favorites with his boys, his fondness of Horus was because he showed the ambition and leadership the Emperor knew could weild the Imperial forces the easiest. While the Primarchs saw something different then what other saw,they still saw their FATHER, even the powerful psyskers among them. If your trying to make a "what if" arugment, then this is an iteresting point of view. On the other side you realize you have no basis in thinking he's a woman other than it might be funny and the heresy was pms.


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

Wow this thread is still going. More evidence to my claim that Lux is a genius where topic creation is concerned. *Lux *you do such a good job of creating topic titles that draw people in! I mean how can you say no to reading and posting on a thread like this? 








bobss said:


> Bane_of_Kings said:
> 
> 
> > Sanguinius turning to Horus and being killed by the Emperor on the _Vengeful Spirit_
> ...


But don't you think it might be prudent to wait for GW to change the story (if indeed they do change it) _*before*_ making this claim? Lux saying Sanguinius turned to Horus... and his saying GW *might* change the fluff to say this, are two very different things. 






bobss said:


> Deadeye776 said:
> 
> 
> > The term Emperor is male. If he wanted to be seen as a woman they would call him the Empress of mankind.
> ...


I believe that I understand what you're trying to say (or at least I think I do). To be a man you would need to be both human and male. If he is not human, but a super being taking human form, he would not be a man. 

For example, if it were possible for me (a male human) to take the form of a dog, would I then be a dog? Not completely. I would be a male human who's taken on the form of a dog. Therefore how you _"perceive"_ me, and what I actually am, can be two very different things.


What we know from official fluff, is that the Emperor 100% of the time (unless someone provides official fluff showing otherwise) is referred to as being *male*. He's also referred to as being the savior of *man*kind.


> Codex: Chaos Space Marine Pg. 7
> "...the Emperor, the savior of Mankind turned his eyes to the distant stars."


 However, neither one of those these things _necessarily_ make him a man.

For example, I could be the savior of an endangered species of sheep, but that doesn't make me one. I could even take on the form of a male sheep, but that doesn't really make me a ram. I'm simply a male human in a male sheep's form. In the same way, it could be said about the Emperor that he's not truly a man. 







However... one thing we can be sure of is that *he* was _not_ a she. In addition, if he was not human but rather something else in human form, then we can also be sure *he* was _not_ a woman. Whatever else might come into play concerning this question of the Emperor's humanity, I think we can all agree (save Lux) on at least this.  





.


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

Deadeye776 said:


> The fact you said just because his gender was male doesn't mean he's a man makes the rest of your post almost unreadable. There are no real "Gods" in 40k. Why?
> 
> Khorne- While ultra powerful is not omnisceint or omnipresent. He's for all intents and purposes insane. The blood god spills blood because he likes seeing blood spilt. He has not plan as instead of creating his subjects he was created by the sentient warp sensitive creatures. Gods create their underlings,not the other way around.
> 
> ...


So the old ones are gods because they created eldar orks humans and tau


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## RedThirstWill Destroy (Nov 10, 2011)

How's about The Emperor, actualy being a choas God? when the others realised what he was doing they worked together to destroy him as he was planning on destroying them and ruling all?


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## Uber Ork (Aug 23, 2010)

kavyanshrike said:


> So the old ones are gods because they created eldar orks humans and tau


Creating something out of nothing, and creating something out of something else are two entirely different things.

The Old Ones, and the Emperor for that matter, "created" out of what was already there (i.e. atoms, molecules, & DNA, etc.). They did not use supernatural power to speak them into existence from absolute nothingness.

When Deadeye points out...


Deadeye776 said:


> There are no real "Gods" in 40k.


I believe he's meaning there's no God's in the "all powerful" sense. Gods that would have created something out of complete nothingness (i.e. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"). There was nothing, then he created the heavens and the earth. 

The Old Ones (like the Emperor) were simply masters of genetic engineering. They didn't create sub atomic particles, atoms, amino acids, protein chains, and DNA out of nothingness... they used their mastery of genetic manipulation to "create" different life forms out of those building blocks that were already there.

It would be like modern science someday gaining enough mastery over human DNA that they can "create" a human out of the necessary molecules without needing to alter an existing egg or sperm, etc. Even thought that would be amazing, they still didn't create it from absolute nothingness. They didn't say "let there be molecules" and they appeared. Instead, they took from what was already there and manipulated it.




.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

No, the old ones were not gods. Why? A real god isn't capable of dying. I had this problem before with people using terms that they didn't understand and trying to change the meaning.Dr.Mahnattan from the watchmen. He could do pretty much anything.But we know he's a man that became ultra powerful. A god is transcedental and therefore never started as anything because IT always was. The Emperor while not fully a human, was NEVER a god.Whatever he started out as his form is that of a man. A human male. He behaves like a sterotypical male. He's bloodthirsty and see's conquering as the only means to unite the galaxy.He calls it liberation but all evidence to the contrary. The Emperor was correct.There are no "gods" in 40k. Just extremely powerful entities and extremely intelliegent ones. The Emperor is a man.


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## CJay (Aug 25, 2010)

Troll. For real this isn't locked why?


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

I have sat and read every page of this thread. Two things that definitely happened during that time:

1. I laughed out loud more than three times.

2. I became dumber and dumber with every single word I read that was written by Lux.

I have decided that he is impressive. I have never met anyone who was so stupid that it actually made me dumber just reading what they had written.


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

CJay said:


> Troll. For real this isn't locked why?


On the contrary, this should be moved to the sub-forum, Lux's stand-up and stickeyed :laugh:


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Deadeye776 said:


> No, the old ones were not gods. Why? A real god isn't capable of dying. I had this problem before with people using terms that they didn't understand and trying to change the meaning.


I'd just like to point out that you're refering to an Abrahamic God (the all-knowing, all-powerful type). Human history is full of religions worshipping falliable and ultimately mortal beings that they term Gods (the Greek, Egyptian and Norse pantheons being some of the best known). Under those terms the Chaos Powers, the Emperor, even the C'tan and Old Ones could be called 'Gods' (which is why they are). It is however true that there are/is no all-knowing, all-powerful God in 40k (or at least not one that has any kind of influence over the dimensions).

Also, the Emperor is quite clearly a masculine figure. He isn't really human but as a male that manifests, and identifies, as a human it's true enough to call him a 'man' in casual conversations.


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

Deadeye776 said:


> No, the old ones were not gods. Why? A real god isn't capable of dying. I had this problem before with people using terms that they didn't understand and trying to change the meaning.Dr.Mahnattan from the watchmen. He could do pretty much anything.But we know he's a man that became ultra powerful. A god is transcedental and therefore never started as anything because IT always was. The Emperor while not fully a human, was NEVER a god.Whatever he started out as his form is that of a man. A human male. He behaves like a sterotypical male. He's bloodthirsty and see's conquering as the only means to unite the galaxy.He calls it liberation but all evidence to the contrary. The Emperor was correct.There are no "gods" in 40k. Just extremely powerful entities and extremely intelliegent ones. The Emperor is a man.


So the chaos gods are gods then also are the eldar ones?


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

kavyanshrike said:


> So the chaos gods are gods then also are the eldar ones?


Not in the Abrahamic, all-knowing all-powerful, sense because they are not all-knowing or all-powerful. In a looser definition of 'god' they all certainly could be.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> Not in the Abrahamic, all-knowing all-powerful, sense because they are not all-knowing or all-powerful. In a looser definition of 'god' they all certainly could be.


They are not all-knowing and all-powerful separately, but together... well, let's fry our brains for a moment. Tzeentch is the God of Manipulation, and it would be logical to think that it knows everything; otherwise, its plans couldn't succeed (or fail, depending on whichever mood it's in). The other three encompass things of immense power: war/bloodshed, disease/mortality, and lust/desire. As a whole, the Chaos Gods may fit the Abrahamic definition. Add into that the fact that time does not exist in the Warp, and even though we can say the Gods were "born" at certain times in mortal history, in the Warp, they always existed - they simply never had enough power to affect the universe until their "birth."

Perhaps this is why, for the universe to survive, the Chaos Gods must remain in contention with each other, but we all know there are those smart enough to worship Chaos Undivided.

I love how this discussion now has nothing to do with whether or not the Emperor was a woman .


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Rather it has everything to do with the Empress being a man or a woman...seeing as how every "god" in the warhammer 40k universe is depicted as a "man". And yet it was only the Emperor who was actually a woman, which symbolizes her direct contrast of the ruinous powers who only impregnate others with their doctrine and philosophy and consequently bring about more destruction and eradication then they do creation....while the Empress in comparison to the other "gods", births, creates, brings forth far more than she destroyed and or eradicated...


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## revan4559 (Aug 9, 2010)

Lux said:


> Rather it has everything to do with the Empress being a man or a woman...seeing as how every "god" in the warhammer 40k universe is depicted as a "man". And yet it was only the Emperor who was actually a woman, which symbolizes her direct contrast of the ruinous powers who only impregnate others with their doctrine and philosophy and consequently bring about more destruction and eradication then they do creation....while the Empress in comparison to the other "gods", births, creates, brings forth far more than she destroyed and or eradicated...


I would say that is intrue as technically Slaanesh is both male and female but as the Eldar created 'it' they get the right of deciding slaanesh's gender and they call slaanesh "She who Thirsts".

Anyway to do with the emperor. If the fluff that says: he is made up of all the remaining ancient shamans of earth combined into one body then it is possible that some of the shamans, is still considered part of the true fluff then it is possible that some of the shamans could of been female but it is unlikely.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Actually Shamanism was historically a very sexually equal vocation, so reincarnated shaman has a high chance of having been in a female body previously; however, that does not tilt either way the question of which the Emperor was, only what is possible.

The gender of power is a very interesting metaphysical point. However many mythic traditions, including Vedic and Northern European, impute the creative power solely to the male, with many traditions in the shamanistic mode having male creator spirits.

As GW mythology grew out of the Northern European myth cycles it is therefore much more likely to be the opposite of your supposition: that the Emperor is male and some if not all (Nurgle certainly) of the Chaos powers are feminine.


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## Lord Solar Macharius (Oct 5, 2010)

WHAT THE HELL IS TH-

Oh, it's just another one of Lux's ramblings.


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> As GW mythology grew out of the Northern European myth cycles it is therefore much more likely to be the opposite of your supposition: that the Emperor is male and some if not all (Nurgle certainly) of the Chaos powers are feminine.


Well the emperor is referred to as a male in everything i know and so is nurgle (father nurgle anyone?) We dont need another gender-of-the-gods matter to argue about


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

Lux said:


> Rather it has everything to do with the Empress being a man or a woman...seeing as how every "god" in the warhammer 40k universe is depicted as a "man". And yet it was only the Emperor who was actually a woman, which symbolizes her direct contrast of the ruinous powers who only impregnate others with their doctrine and philosophy and consequently bring about more destruction and eradication then they do creation....while the Empress in comparison to the other "gods", births, creates, brings forth far more than she destroyed and or eradicated...


the eldar have female gods like isha and I can't remember the other ones


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## 18827 (Oct 23, 2009)

of course he is a man, look at men today, most are little bitches, fucking hell women have more balls these days so what do you think men will be like in 39,000 years :laugh:



bitch slapping on the battlefield, horus vs the emperor, manbags and guyliner at dawnunish:


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## ThoseKrazyKasrkin (Aug 2, 2011)

jimmy gunn said:


> of course he is a man, look at men today, most are little bitches, fucking hell women have more balls these days so what do you think men will be like in 39,000 years :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> bitch slapping on the battlefield, horus vs the emperor, manbags and guyliner at dawnunish:


The emperors faithful inquisition will whoop your arse for that blasphemy. He clearly has no guy-liner, only several layers of foundation. (like some people i know)


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## Smokes (Nov 27, 2009)

I, Inquisitor +CLASSIFIED+ of the Ordo Hereticus officially support this theory. It all makes sense.
































I'm just kidding we are going to turn you into a servitor.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Davidicus 40k said:


> They are not all-knowing and all-powerful separately, but together...


They still aren't. Even when they worked together (however briefly) to cause the Horus Heresy they lost. 

Together, and even individually, they are immensely powerful and have at least some perception of the future (seeing as they should exist at every point in time, they would thus in already present in the future and should know how that works out but eh). However they do not even begin to approach the level of all-powerful. It is possible to defy the Gods will, it is possible to foil their plans, to best their champions and generally beat them.



Lux said:


> seeing as how every "god" in the warhammer 40k universe is depicted as a "man".


First off this isn't true. The Eldar Gods have several females in their pantheon, Slaanesh is often depicted as female, or hermaphrodidic (sp?) and many cultures assing different genders to the Ruinous Powers in their worship. 



> And yet it was only the Emperor who was actually a woman,


According to you and zero evidence. Again Lux, this is you using your theory to support your theory, which isn't how logic works.



> which symbolizes her direct contrast of the ruinous powers who only impregnate others with their doctrine and philosophy and consequently bring about more destruction and eradication then they do creation....while the Empress in comparison to the other "gods", births, creates, brings forth far more than she destroyed and or eradicated...


This is merely your interpretation of the Chaos Powers and the Emperor, combined with gender stereotyping. The Emperor (or at least his Ecclesiarchy) is just as guilty of indoctrination as any Chaos cult. Further, many sources have shown the Chaos Gods (Nurgle, one of the few Gods given a specific gender, in particular) to be compassionate, nuturing and ultimately loving of their subjects. Chaos wants you to be all that you can be, the Emperor just wants your obedience. Ultimately, the Chaos Gods are genderless (as they exist in a realm beyond matter) and the Emperor is male (in personality and disposition, if not necessarily biological fact).


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

I see the question as entirely meaningless and without basis, from a purely logical point of view.

To be a man or a woman, you first have to be human. Nobody has ever established that the Emperor is human, and thus it cannot be confirmed that he is either a man or a woman.

'Male', yes. 'Man', not necessarily.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

The Horus Heresy- Collected Visions, page 44:



> 'Within a year the man later to be know as the Emperor was born. As he grew older his powers began to manifest themselves and he gradually remembered the thousands of lives that lay behind him. He was the New Man. But he was also the past. His powerful mind could still sift the natural energies of the warp, enter the lives of plants and animals, promote harmony, and ease the suffering of others. As he remembered how he was made to live forever, so that he would never have to reincarnate, but would survive unchanged for eternity. At last he remembered everything that had led up to his birth, and he left his own people to begin his endless journey around the world and through human history.'
> 
> 'Over the millennia the Emperor watched the human race develop. He travelled the entire globe, watching and helping, sometimes adopting the persona of a great leader of advisor. In times of trouble he became a crusader, a religious leader, or a messiah, at other times he remained a back-stage contributor to events, an advisor to kings, a court magican, a pioneering scientist. Many of the guises he adopted were humble, others became monumental figures of world history or religion. At times of crisis he would be there, steering the human race along a narrow survival path that he alone could see.'


Seems pretty clear to me- the Emperor is male.


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

:goodpost:

Many many thanks for that. Sure someone did something earlier as well but this drives it home.

Just to re-iterate and highlight key words for those with selective attention.



> 'Within a year the *man* later to be know as the Emperor was born. As *he* grew older *his* powers began to manifest themselves and *he* gradually remembered the thousands of lives that lay behind *him*. *He* was the New *Man*. But *he* was also the past. *His* powerful mind could still sift the natural energies of the warp, enter the lives of plants and animals, promote harmony, and ease the suffering of others. As *he* remembered how *he* was made to live forever, so that *he* would never have to reincarnate, but would survive unchanged for eternity. At last *he* remembered everything that had led up to *his* birth, and *he* left *his* own people to begin *his* endless journey around the world and through human history.'
> 
> 'Over the millennia the Emperor watched the human race develop. *He* travelled the entire globe, watching and helping, sometimes adopting the persona of a great leader of advisor. In times of trouble *he* became a crusader, a religious leader, or a messiah, at other times *he* remained a back-stage contributor to events, an advisor to kings, a court magican, a pioneering scientist. Many of the guises *he* adopted were humble, others became monumental figures of world history or religion. At times of crisis *he* would be there, steering the human race along a narrow survival path that *he* alone could see.'


Also quoted from the Collected Visions [make note an example of a reputable source]

So can someone bring a source specific example with a feminine reference to the emperor?

No?

Any takers with anything more than there own stretched interpretations?

:laugh:


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## Catpain Rich (Dec 13, 2008)

> 'Within a year the woman later to be know as the Emperor was born. As she grew older his powers began to manifest themselves and she gradually remembered the thousands of lives that lay behind her. She was the New Woman. But she was also the past. Her powerful mind could still sift the natural energies of the warp, enter the lives of plants and animals, promote harmony, and ease the suffering of others. As she remembered how she was made to live forever, so that she would never have to reincarnate, but would survive unchanged for eternity. At last she remembered everything that had led up to her birth, and she left her own people to begin her endless journey around the world and through human history.'
> 
> 'Over the millennia the Emperor watched the human race develop. She travelled the entire globe, watching and helping, sometimes adopting the persona of a great leader of advisor. In times of trouble she became a crusader, a religious leader, or a messiah, at other times she remained a back-stage contributor to events, an advisor to kings, a court magican, a pioneering scientist. Many of the guises she adopted were humble, others became monumental figures of world history or religion. At times of crisis she would be there, steering the human race along a narrow survival path that she alone could see.'


Even so, why is she referred to as "the Emperor"... unless SHE WAS A MAN! I need to make a thread about this based on only this evidence and the shit I dreamed up in my head!


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Can we let this die already? 

Thanks.


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

> Even so, why is she referred to as "the Emperor"... unless SHE WAS A MAN! I need to make a thread about this based on only this evidence and the shit I dreamed up in my head!


WTF. I mean WTF, in my pure frustration at the rediculousness of the topic I had overlooked the sole fact that needed no further explanation.

The name.

Emperor -Masculine

Empress - Feminine

EMPEROR! Effing masculine therefore male.

Simple. Its like spending an hour looking for glasses and finding that you are wearing them. :laugh:



> Can we let this die already?


I think thanks to the contribution of every poster barring one, we can.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

And yet it is the unison of the entire theme in warhammer 40k that drives home the idea of a masculine/feminine duality at play....

The Emperor representing the empress and the element of feminine....creating....bringing forth new ideas...

The chaos gods representing masculinity....destruction....the manipulation of that which is already in existence....but do not create or bring forth anything new...


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Troll is trolling super hard.


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

And yet the Emperor is severe, unforgiving, and rigid representing the right hand pillar of the male whereas Chaos flows, changes, and is accepts anyone representing the left hand pillar of the female.


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## Zion (May 31, 2011)

Dave T Hobbit said:


> And yet the Emperor is severe, unforgiving, and rigid representing the right hand pillar of the male whereas Chaos flows, changes, and is accepts anyone representing the left hand pillar of the female.


So 40K is (as a whole) asexual? Or perhaps hermaphroditic. Well at least Slaanesh would be proud.


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## Durant (Aug 24, 2011)

Lux said:


> And yet it is the unison of the entire theme in warhammer 40k that drives home the idea of a masculine/feminine duality at play....
> 
> The Emperor representing the empress and the element of feminine....creating....bringing forth new ideas...
> 
> The chaos gods representing masculinity....destruction....the manipulation of that which is already in existence....but do not create or bring forth anything new...


FFS! :headbutt:

Where is it,

Hang on let me find it....

Ah here it is...





...


AAAAAAAGH


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Lux said:


> And yet it is the unison of the entire theme in warhammer 40k that drives home the idea of a masculine/feminine duality at play....
> 
> The Emperor representing the empress and the element of feminine....creating....bringing forth new ideas...
> 
> The chaos gods representing masculinity....destruction....the manipulation of that which is already in existence....but do not create or bring forth anything new...


Really Lux? Members consistently ask you for some shred of credible proof and in the end all you do is give them more of this stuff? Cite something in all of the stuff that GW and its parts have produced that backs up your claim. Not your bad interpretation of fluff or not your wild theory backed up by your baseless support.

Honestly, are you truly this incapable of any form of genuine citation or research? Does the concept of strengthening your work with credible support elude you?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I am unsure of what you speak? I use the book as source....outcast dead I mention prior...bot I am unsure of what it is they ask? I read the material and take its interpretation of what it means...I thought this is what we are suppose to do?


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

We are not asking for your interpretation. We are asking you to directly cite- from a canon source of GW/BL- any hard evidence of your claims.

I have cited a source that contradicts your entire theory with hard printed canon. A source that states outright that the Emperor was, in fact, a man/male. I am challenging you to cite/quote a canon source that states otherwise.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

Is this shit still going?

Lux has never, in any of these pathetic threads, given a single source for any of his claims. The best you're going to get is "I.... have read..... between..... the ..... li....nes...and..... Paradigm...."

Lux is a troll, plain and simple. Although I may well be guilty of biting from time to time or making very stupid comments in his threads, can we all not just let him fade away by ignoring this shit?


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## Baltar (Aug 16, 2008)

Troll is trolling super hard.



...




And yet everyone is still responding.



...



Most successful troll ever.


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## kavyanshrike (Sep 10, 2011)

SonOfStan said:


> The entire time I was cringing and cowering through Dead Space 2, I kept telling myself that any moment now the Deathwatch is going to show up to save me. It's pretty much the only thing that got me through. :biggrin:


Why play it then?


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## shaantitus (Aug 3, 2009)

Lux said:


> I am unsure of what you speak? I use the book as source....outcast dead I mention prior...bot I am unsure of what it is they ask? I read the material and take its interpretation of what it means...I thought this is what we are suppose to do?


*You're doing it wrong.*


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## Commissar Ploss (Feb 29, 2008)

*ugh...i figured i could ignore it, just ignore it... but i guess not.*

Lux, the overwhelming majority of member are not keen on your "theories" it's not to say you should not be allowed to state your opinion on the fluff, no matter how unfounded...

Your posts are generally some of the most replied to posts on Heresy, which is why i've been generally ignoring them... since i loooove to see high post counts. However, i can't ignore the rash of reported posts and PM's i've been getting mentioning how ridiculous and cluttering your posts are... They're tired of it, and frankly so am I. 

So, until i start seeing a page number or page numbers, citing where you got your information from, i'm locking this thread. You can PM me the page number and paragraph, if you wish for this to be unlocked. That goes for any other theories you may have as well. Post a citation or it will be locked.

40k Fluff section is for discussion of established canon from the works of GW/BL and is not the place to develop and spread ridiculous, unfounded rumors on vaguely suggestive plot particulars. Perhaps in time, i will make a forum for that. Maybe call it "Lux's Lavatory" so we can flush your insane ideas over there for people to discuss. But that wont happen anytime soon.

I've had about enough. You know how to reach me.

oh, and really?!:



Lux said:


> I also believe the Emperor (empress) was deeply in love with Horus, and thus why she had so much difficulty in bringing herself to slay him, as she so deeply loved him.


INCEST????!!! REALLY???!!! you're accusing someone who made all the primarchs in an image of himself to consider them in an incestuous nature? Even if the Emperor were a woman, this would be highly controversial just for GW having suggested it. fuck that. Besides, the reason the Emperor couldn't slay Horus was simply the fact that he was his most beloved son!!! No shit the Emperor loved him! he's his fucking son!!!


Lux said:


> Additionally the Emperor was known for extreme mood swings, such as eliminating a legion for a "unknown heresy". It could be that it was the Empress's time, and her being mentally unstable interpreted what the two lost legions did as far more severe then they actually were and thus utterly took her wrath out upon them. However once her mood and mental stability stabilized she realized what she did was too severe, but couldn't undo what she did otherwise would undermine her own rule.


 And now! you're claiming the Emperor was having his period???!!! wow, even for you Lux, that's a huge leap... menstrual mood swings... i've heard it all now... :suicide:

Commissar Ploss


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