# Daemon Prince, Warptime, Mark of Nurgle, OH MY!!



## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

I just played my first game against CSM last night. My opponent fielded two DPs with the warptime and Mark of Nurgle, so their toughness goes up, they reroll hits and wounds, and they give you no saves what so ever, MC. 

My Death Company, Veteran Assault Squad and Regular Assault Squad just got shredded by these two. I got one of them down to one wound. Even before combat I was shooting four krak missiles a turn into these guys with little or no damage. Is there any way I can possibly take one of these guys down. 

I guess a psycannon would work but I don't have a grey knights army, just BA, so what do I do?

Thanks,
Dave


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Really the things that hurt them the most is Power weapons and high STR ranged weapons that need like 2-4's to wound. Ideally u just need to make them roll enough wounds. I usually only use one. 2 I think is a little overkill although fun for the player using them.

in any case that is the best bet imo. 

Cheers,

Chaosftw


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Assuming they also had wings, that's going to toll in at nearly 400 points for two models that can't do anything outside of CC. I'm not sure what exactly you (/can) field as BA but if you're able to bring (2) plasma guns into rapid fire range you're hitting & wounding on a 3+ and reducing him to his 5+ invul.

I would recommend not using plasma cannons, as you're only going to be able to inflict one wound under that template & will risk overheating on yourself - lascannons in a devastator squad (if you get that thingy that gives 1 model WS5 especially...) could also work well, 3+ / 2+...

I've found that when I run my winged, WT prince w/ MoS the only thing that stops me is falling shy on the charge & getting rapid-fired to death ...of course that's why I have a lash sorc who rides around behind him ensuring that doesn't happen... 

But DP's are nasty. That's why CSM players will always use 'em.

Of course, Daemon DP's are nastier... 20 points cheaper & the only statline difference is -1 Str...


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

We played 1500 pts. He had these two DP, two squads of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and a couple teleporting CC daemon units who were really pretty weak. The Plague marines were tough but I hurt them and wore them down in a reasonable way. I guess I just need to focus everything on the DPs and like you said, make them take enough saves. I just can't believe how tough they are. Any other advice appreciated.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

There isn't too much you can do. Pour fire into them and hope they die. Invest in power fists for squad leaders perhaps.

When attacking chaos armies it helps to consider the yield of your attacks, in terms of what impact you are making on your opponent's damage output. In other words, how can you best use your attacks to keep your own guys alive?

Shooting plague marines is a low yield activity. Plague marines aren't really much more dangerous than normal marines, but are way harder to kill. You don't save many of your guys by killing them and they don't die easily.

The DP is a higher yield target. Even with MoN it's as easy to wound with a bolter as a plague marine (albeit not very easy) but it does *loads* of damage. Killing it keeps lots of your guys alive.

Not rocket science but a basic theory behind target prioritisation.


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## BrotherNuprin (Oct 13, 2008)

Well, here's my 2 cents on the issue. And I play a pure Thousand Sons CSM army.

Look at the mission first. Usually, when we play, we usually roll for mission and set up. So if your opponent is pumping so much points into 2 DPs for a 1500 points army, then he's lacking some where else (number of troops perhaps, or lack of heavy firepower, etc). Take advantage of that. If the mission is take and hold, or seize ground, then make your opponent choose his battles, as you will have numbers.

If it's a kill point mission, or just bring and play, then set up a gun line (I know, funny saying that to a BA player with assault marines and a death company). You don't HAVE to charge forward all the time (maybe your death company, but doesn't that unit net 0 kill points?), but perhaps know WHEN to commit to a charge. A good CSM player will be aggressive in his movement, but it takes some experience to know how far forward to move before committing fully. He might even over extend his DPs. Your assault marines and death company (plus any other units outfitted with jump packs) can then conduct a counter assault. While all this time, you're firing your heavy weapons.

Now, if you only have assault units, then use that maneuverability advantage. Force him in a position in your choosing. 

A T6 DP is nasty, but he only shok has a 3+ armor save and a 5+ invul save. Technically speaking, firing 8 krak missiles over the course of 1-3 turns will kill one DP, and if not, then your assault marines with that PF will finish him off.

In my experience, I play with a DP w/ MoT, and what really scares the piss out of him are bolters shots. Sure a 4+ invul save is great, but having 20 bolter shots coming at your DP isn't fun. 

Just one question, do BA get Psychic Hoods?

Hopes this helps.


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

I can have psychic hoods on my librarians, but I don't usually play librarians because the powers are all CC powers for BA and there is plenty of other good CC stuff to get, but a hood might have helped. 

I actually pulled of a draw in capture and control, because I tied everything up on the other side of the table long enough to win. Basically I rushed across and got slaughtered, but he never made it over to my 5 man tac squad sitting on the objective. 

So I didn't lose, but it was certainly a pyrric victory. 

Target prioritization seems to be the ticket. Just hit them with everything, and only them. I'll let you know how it goes next time I play him


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

or a pyrric draw to be precise...


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## the cabbage (Dec 29, 2006)

Your BA must be pretty mobile with jump packers etc. Try to avoid when possible. With the stats you give he can only hurt you in close combat. Concentrate on the other stuff.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Someguy said:


> The DP is a higher yield target. Even with MoN it's as easy to wound with a bolter as a plague marine (albeit not very easy)


A DP w/ MoN is T6. Plague Marines are T5 meaning standard bolters need 6's rather than 5's to wound - though the DP doesn't have feel no pain - he does have an invul to use when his armour save is negated (FNP wont work in that case anyway)


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

I keep on saying this... but for MC's, scouts with sniper rifles and a missile launcher shine through. 10 scouts, 9 with SR's, one with a ML. you're snipers are hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's regardless of toughness (haha mark of nurgle!) and then he's getting the 3+ save which will fail eventually, and the ML will be hitting on a 3+, wounding on a 2+, and he only gets his 5+ invul. These boys are awesome for high toughness MC popping. You're looking a 2 wounds likely a turn. Two turns and he's toast. Just keep your scouts in cover and they'll be able to get their 4+ against almost anything but heavy flamers... and if a heavy flamer is that close to your scouts they're probably dead anyways. 

What ever you do, do not engage them in close combat with the sole exception of Mephiston. I use Mephiston on MC's sometimes and usually he delivers as long as they don't have eternal warrior which negates his force weapon... but even then, averaging on 8 attacks on the charge (with might of heroes) at strength 5 and weapon skill 6 and initiative 6 ignoring armor... and with a psychic hood that will be screwing up their warp time... he's nothing to sniff at. and if he manages to actually get off transfixing gaze and the DP fails his leadership test... it'll just be sitting there drooling as he lays into it. Not to mention with feel no pain and toughness 5 he can take alot of pain, though I guess the DP's would ignore the FNP since MC's ignore armour saves...


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## TwoKill (Feb 7, 2009)

I field plenty of sterngaurd and have never had to fear a high toughness model since i started playing.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

AzraelJahannam said:


> 8 attacks on the charge (with might of heroes) at strength 5 and weapon skill 6 and initiative 6 ignoring armor...


You're hitting on 4's & wounding on 5's & leaving the invulnerable save neting an average of 1 wound per turn of combat whereas the DP is hitting & wounding on 3's. I'm not sure if Mephiston has an invul, but if not he's taking 2 wounds per turn - he'll die first. I'd say the scouts mentioned previously are your best bet - probably cheaper than a 5 man las devastator squad...



AzraelJahannam said:


> Not to mention with feel no pain and toughness 5 he can take alot of pain, though I guess the DP's would ignore the FNP since MC's ignore armour saves...


Indeed.



TwoKill said:


> I field plenty of sterngaurd and have never had to fear a high toughness model since i started playing.


BA don't get sternguard - but yes - those would be the ones to use for vanilla marines


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Focus fire on one at a time until it's dead - 2 wounds off two DP's is far worse than 4 wounds off one...

As oneone else has already said - Scouts with Sniper Rifles and Missiles (are BA scouts BS4? if so they're a great buy.)

Also, Landspeeders with Heavy Bolters/Assault Cannons; use them to kite (i.e. stay out of charge range but inside weapon range) the DP's and blast them.


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> You're hitting on 4's & wounding on 5's & leaving the invulnerable save neting an average of 1 wound per turn of combat whereas the DP is hitting & wounding on 3's. I'm not sure if Mephiston has an invul, but if not he's taking 2 wounds per turn - he'll die first. I'd say the scouts mentioned previously are your best bet - probably cheaper than a 5 man las devastator squad...


exactly, hence why Mephiston should be left as a last resort, but he's the best close combat alternative for blood angels, that's all I'm saying. And I just read that DP's do in fact have eternal warrior, so he wouldn't even be able to force weapon them, so definitely a loaded sniper scout squad is the best choice. I love those sneaky little bastards.


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

bishop5 said:


> Focus fire on one at a time until it's dead - 2 wounds off two DP's is far worse than 4 wounds off one...
> 
> As oneone else has already said - Scouts with Sniper Rifles and Missiles (are BA scouts BS4? if so they're a great buy.)
> 
> Also, Landspeeders with Heavy Bolters/Assault Cannons; use them to kite (i.e. stay out of charge range but inside weapon range) the DP's and blast them.


exactly, make sure one is dead before moving on to the next

and yes, they are BS4 which is awesome as a full 10 man sniper squad with a ML is 210 points


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Someone actually tried to take down my winged, WT slaaneshi daemon prince with that kind of scout squad Monday night. He also unloaded a lascannon & 2 plasmaguns. Over two turns he caused exactly 0 wounds and my prince at each and every one of his scouts for lunch. He then proceeded to fly over a building, gobble up a chaplain and wipe out 8 / 10 members of a tactical squad. In the end he took 1 wound from a plasma sword... 

Then the local redshirt ended our game 1 turn early & I was forced to pull a real jerk move & lash a squad off an objective with my sorceror to force a tie...

DING! 100! Senior's lounge here I come!


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

m3rr3k said:


> Someone actually tried to take down my winged, WT slaaneshi daemon prince with that kind of scout squad Monday night. He also unloaded a lascannon & 2 plasmaguns. Over two turns he caused exactly 0 wounds and my prince at each and every one of his scouts for lunch. He then proceeded to fly over a building, gobble up a chaplain and wipe out 8 / 10 members of a tactical squad. In the end he took 1 wound from a plasma sword...
> 
> Then the local redshirt ended our game 1 turn early & I was forced to pull a real jerk move & lash a squad off an objective with my sorceror to force a tie...
> 
> DING! 100! Senior's lounge here I come!


LMAO!!! I would have paid to see the look on that poor bastards face, pretty unlucky rolling. Guess you can't prepare for everything...

Is the plasma sword a new Vanilla space marine upgrade (don't play vanilla so don't know)? Cause if he was a vanilla player he probably had a hell of a time hitting you with those scouts... BS3 sort of screws up your sniper shots...

Nice last minute objective frying btw, I saw a fellow lash someone off an objective last turn before, pretty handy tactic,  all's fair in love (or good old slaaneshi lust) and warhammer

P.S. welcome to the ranks of the seniors, pick up your extended canines at the entrance  ohhh space wolves... when shall your codex be upgraded....


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## Crane948 (Dec 8, 2008)

I would agree with just shooting the shit out of them and hoping for good rolls.. Close combat with that mofo would just be a bad idea though, Warptime can be used on opponents turns right? If so then yeah defintely just find some high str with wounds on a low dice roll and hope for the best gl


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

I need more snipers......many, many more snipers, maybe like 30 (thats the max for BA)


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

rdlb said:


> I need more snipers......many, many more snipers, maybe like 30 (thats the max for BA)


errr, I'd say 2 squads max, only cause they don't give you death company and they take up slots for VAS and dreadnoughts

but yeah, snipers are gold


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## rdlb (Nov 30, 2008)

Yeah I was just exaggerating, I guess the internet doesn't communicate that unless I pick one of those little smile heads I should have used this one:biggrin:


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

rdlb said:


> Yeah I was just exaggerating, I guess the internet doesn't communicate that unless I pick one of those little smile heads I should have used this one:biggrin:


Eheh, my bad, the tech adepts removed the humor recepters in my brain when they lobotomised me, grafted a servo arm to me, and hooked me up to this computer.


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## m3rr3k (Oct 14, 2008)

Crane948 said:


> Warptime can be used on opponents turns right? If so then yeah defintely just find some high str with wounds on a low dice roll and hope for the best gl


Warptime can be used in every combat round - so your opponents as well


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