# The Old Ones



## Loyal Lunawolf (Feb 27, 2009)

Ok getting a new army and i was thinking about doing the old ones.

Here is a bit of what i can say about it

i mean we know that they were a 'godly' type race. and that they were wiped out (supposedly), u could just bring them back by saying that they contained the technology to cloak an entire planet and they lived there at the edge of the galaxy in tranquility until a warp storm caused them to leave their planet and find a new safe place, since they are so old you could do a hell of alot with them, and you could also make them like an ally of the eldar since they did create them, and it would help the race out a bit, (they only had 1 planets worth of people and the eldar only have a few craftworlds left, their help would benefit each other greatly),

any ideas of what they would look like?

Thanks Loyal Lunawolf


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

That would be cool, the eldar allie thing would make sense. i was looking on the internet and there is no description of what they look like and the current necron codex dosen't say either. Couldn't you also put in orks, since the old ones made them as well. i suppose they wouldn't care bout the 'brain boyz' anymore, but maybe they could feel some sort of connection like the primarchs felt when they saw the emperor. Maybe they wouldn't look like anything anymore since they have been sleeping longer than the necrons. i imagne them as very white, humaiod being that is very thin and has a bulbous head with a long neck. I'll search around a bit more and see what i can find.


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

i found out that there are two surviving Old Ones. The ork god Gork is the god of strength, and the Eldar god Keala Mensha Khaine is also the god of strength. The ork god Mork is said to be more cunning than Gork, and the eldar Laughing God is more of a trickster than Khaine. Both these races were created by the Old Ones so their gods could be one and the same! the orks made no picture of mork but i do have a picture of gork:

http://thegreenskin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/black-orc.jpg

There are no pictures of Khaine herself but the Avatar is ment to be an embodyment of her spirit spirit so here she is:

http://gow-mg.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/avatar.jpg

I could not find pictures of the Laughing God but the Harliquens are " playing the role of the Laughing God and all Harliquens look basically the same, with a white smiling mask and a big brightly coloured coat, so maybe that's what the Laughing God looks like. I will put in a few pictures of the Harliquens anyway:

http://www.boostep.fi/imagemagic.ph...alin5mhk6anYp+X1Mvb&w=150&h=121&page=category

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?...g+God&ndsp=18&hl=xx-pirate&sa=N&start=36&um=1

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?...g+God&ndsp=18&hl=xx-pirate&sa=N&start=36&um=1

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?...g+God&ndsp=18&hl=xx-pirate&sa=N&start=36&um=1


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

I always figured they were powerfull enughf psykers to look like anything they wanted. 

re you proxying them or wrighting your own codex.


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## Loyal Lunawolf (Feb 27, 2009)

i might do my own codex for them 

and Lupercal101 nice idea with the orks being allies aswell


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## jpunk (Feb 8, 2009)

I seem to remember from the old rogue trader book that the old ones were related to the slann, which I think were a kind of Lizardmen style race whose technology was horribly powerful and infinitely small, such as digital weapons and the ilk. Mind you, that is just from memory. Someone with the Rogue Trader book will probably be able to put me right.


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

Look over at lexicanum and type in Old Ones in search to find out a background on them.


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## Daal-En (Apr 7, 2009)

Loyal Lunawolf said:


> Ok getting a new army and i was thinking about doing the old ones.
> 
> Here is a bit of what i can say about it
> 
> ...


In the original incarnation of the 40k rules (Rogue Trader), the 'Old Ones' were the Slann (that's where the WFB ones first came from). They looked a bit more newtlike than froglike back then, though.

Phil


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## warmaster isaan (Sep 18, 2008)

Lupercal101 said:


> i found out that there are two surviving Old Ones. The ork god Gork is the god of strength, and the Eldar god Keala Mensha Khaine is also the god of strength.


khaine is not the god of strength he is the god of war and death (or so i think/heard)

also i think taht no on ewould know what they look like becaus ethe godly beings would give of so much psycic energy it would be fatal to anyone not an "old one themselves. but thats just my thought!!!!!!!


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## Loyal Lunawolf (Feb 27, 2009)

i think they would like humanoid type beings but also have serpent things in them like have a tail,serpent tongue and be tall and bold


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

warmaster isaan said:


> khaine is not the god of strength he is the god of war and death (or so i think/heard)
> 
> also i think taht no on ewould know what they look like becaus ethe godly beings would give of so much psycic energy it would be fatal to anyone not an "old one themselves. but thats just my thought!!!!!!!


So is gork, and you need strength to kill people and fight, so stregth sorts of sums up the lot. I rekon if the Old Ones wanted someone to see them they could create a pyscic shield so they could talk to whoever. I was also wondering, is their such thing as psycic radiation? i figure there could be. and the slann were created by the old ones, if you read page 6 of the new army book:

They created as they had elsewhere, servants to tend their needs. The First spawning of the slann mage-priests came into being.

I can't really imagine the eldar and orks worshipping big fat frogs


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## Exitus Acta Probat (Apr 23, 2009)

I was going to say, 
I was under the impression Slaan were creations of the old ones...like the orks/eldar/jakarro(digi-weapons anyone?)
but yeah, old slaan pics were more like modern lizardmen minis now.


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## warmaster isaan (Sep 18, 2008)

Exitus Acta Probat said:


> I was going to say,
> I was under the impression Slaan were creations of the old ones...like the orks/eldar/jakarro(digi-weapons anyone?)
> but yeah, old slaan pics were more like modern lizardmen minis now.


it a shame that GW got rid of the jakkaro coz i'm sure they would have been so cool if they hadn't(cool to look and strong weapons)

i think someone should do a book on the jakkaro i'm sure it would be quite good instead of constantly chaos and IG and eldar!!!!!!! maybe even some more book on tyranids and tau coz no one does books on them!!!!


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## cranvill (Jul 20, 2008)

acording all the old fluff the old ones created just about all the races that are about now includeing humans.They were the soo called gardeners of the universe, It just soo happened that the slain were the first to be made along with the eldar shortley after .the orks and humans were made to be warriors to fight aginst the star gods armys but they were too late seeding them for the to be of any use.

The look of them is some what of a mistary but most fluff tends to lend its self towards toad or newt like.And there is some fluff that says that not all of them were wiped out in the struggle some law says that some escaped to the farvest reaches of space.

hope that helps just hope my fadeing memory is upto scratch =D


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

Actually, GW has never said whether the Old Ones created the humans or not. I thik they didn't help because in 40k the humans seem to fail at everything. The Imperium was destroyed before it was finished, they killed every alien they saw which resuled in all other races hating them and wanting to kill them,the High lords of terra have just failed all toghether with the whole complicated burocracy and worship of the Emperor that even the Emperor him self said not to do. the orks just own every thing and the Eldar have awesome super-advanced tech, the slaan mage-priests are some of the best majicians in the world. Humans just fail.


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## Loyal Lunawolf (Feb 27, 2009)

well it is strongly looks like they did for example the eldar are like humans


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

maybe the old Ones look like humans, since all their creations are humaniod


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## Mellow (Apr 27, 2009)

The space marines came from the humans, so they weren't totally a failure.

And I never noticed the similarity between Gork/Mork and Kain/Laughing God. Cool.


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## Caratacos (Aug 26, 2008)

I think some of you guys refer to the Jokaero when you talk about digi-weapons.

In the days of Rogue Trader Warhammer Fantasy and 40k were intertwined and thus it was possible for Fantasy Champions of Chaos to aquire old(!) technology in form of chainswords etc. The Fantasy world was supposed to be our own planet (Terra) in a distant past or something like that.

In the old Warhammer Fantasy RPG one can read on page 263 (first edition I think):

"Ten Thousand years ago, the world lay in the grip of a persistent and numbing ice age... 
...Those creatures that lived upon the globe were mostly confined to the equatorial regions - amongst them were the ancestors of Elves, Dwarfs and Humans. Little more than animals, they roamed over the forests and tundra, hunting wild beasts and grubbing for roots in the ground..."

"...The world was also occypied by creatures of cosmic intelligence, beings whose whims were making an impact upon the fate of the planet and its evolving inhabitants - these were the Old slann.

The Old Slann were an ancient race. Countless millions of years ago, they originated upon an unknown world, many light-years across the galaxy. They were strange, unfathomable, and powerful beyond imagining...

...They learned how to travel from world to world via a system of complex inter-dimensional gateways - and also learned of the perils of the voids between space, of the lurking horrors that inhabited the regions of Chaos into which their gateways led. During their domination of the universe the Old Slann travelled to many worlds, including this one..."

The Old Slann cultivated the races of the world. For example they moved the Elves from the Old World to the Isles of Ulthuan, where they later developed the great Elven Kingdoms.

And then a huge disaster struck which led to the collapse of one or borth of the Old Slanns largest gateways on the world.

"What happened exactly can only be guessed at - most likely the Slann encountered some intelligence too great even for their magic..."

"With the collapse of the interdimensional gateways - 7,000 years ago - the Old Slann civilisation upon this planet came to an end."

"With the collapse of the Old Slann civilisation , the races of Elves, Dwarfs and Humans were left to their own devices...

From page 261-262:

"Lustria is a vast continent in the southern hemisphere of the globe. It is dominated by jungle to the north and rolling grasslands to the south. As well as many exotic animals, Lustria is home to two kinds of native Humans (Amazons and Pygmies), and the Slann - degenerate descendants of the amphibious Old Slann who played such a major role in the shaping of the world..."

...the Elves had developed their own high-minded and sophisticated civilisation, and had begun to explore the world from their island home. It is nearly 6,000 years ago that they first sailed west and marvelled at the ruins of the Old Slann."


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## Mellow (Apr 27, 2009)

So the Slann are the Old Ones? Just checking for clarification.

Anyway, you mean to say that this is the old canon of the storyline?


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

that was the fluff from a while ago, but again GW changes the fluff to suit sales without justification, and as I said before, in page 6 of the new army book " They created as they had elsewhere, servants to tend their needs. The First spawning of the slann mage-priests came into being." I rekon their are different types of Old Ones, cause in humans their are black people and white people and brwon people. Since your skin colour depends on where your from (people native to Africa have dark skin because it helps protect you from sunlight), maybe the Old Ones had one type of Old One that had super psyker skills and another that had some other super ability like speed or really long eye sight or something. Maybe their planet was near the one of the earlest warp rifts, and all the Old Ones powers were just mutations. I only think this because it seems kinda impossible for a microbe to grow into the most powerful being that ever has existed and ever will exist.

If that was true then why didn't any other race around get this stuff, like humans (assuming the Old Ones didn't interfere with our growth, and we did get the powers eventually but only about a couple of billion years later and not even a fraction of what the Old Ones possessed) or Necrontyr or any other race that existed then. It just dosen't seem possible. The current fluff says the Slaan were created by the Old Ones so thats it, no more questions asked.

It really does piss me off when GW changes all the fluff only for sales. I know they have to make a living but if their going to make new fluff they should stop contradicing themselves. Back to the Old Ones now, this is what we KNOW:

That two of them are Eldar and Ork gods

They created the Slaan

They created the Eldar, Orks and allmost all other races in the galaxy

This what we (at least after reading all replies i am) are pretty sure of:

They are humanoid

Their are some surviving

Most of them are dead 

I strongly disargree with this but the majority of the people are pretty sure they created humans

And this is what we want to know:

What the hell they look like

I actually starting to get the feeling that the Old Ones were humans, because all races are humanoid and we know pretty much all races were created by Old Ones but it has never been confirmed that they created humans. Maybe the Emperor was an Old One, even though fluff says he was created bt 1000 shamans fusd into one, he was about as close to being a god as someone who isn't can get. I don't know, but maybe.


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## Mellow (Apr 27, 2009)

When was the Emperor born? Because it seems like the Eldar existed before the humans. This is just what I know from playing the DoW games and reading articles on wikia dedicated to WH 40K.


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## Daal-En (Apr 7, 2009)

> Lupercal101 said:
> 
> 
> > that was the fluff from a while ago, but again GW changes the fluff to suit sales without justification, and as I said before, in page 6 of the new army book " They created as they had elsewhere, servants to tend their needs. The First spawning of the slann mage-priests came into being." I rekon their are different types of Old Ones, cause in humans their are black people and white people and brwon people. Since your skin colour depends on where your from (people native to Africa have dark skin because it helps protect you from sunlight), maybe the Old Ones had one type of Old One that had super psyker skills and another that had some other super ability like speed or really long eye sight or something. Maybe their planet was near the one of the earlest warp rifts, and all the Old Ones powers were just mutations. I only think this because it seems kinda impossible for a microbe to grow into the most powerful being that ever has existed and ever will exist.
> ...


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## Daal-En (Apr 7, 2009)

Mellow said:


> When was the Emperor born? Because it seems like the Eldar existed before the humans. This is just what I know from playing the DoW games and reading articles on wikia dedicated to WH 40K.


Ancient Mesopotamia, about 5,000 years before present in our timeline. The Eldar certainly existed before humanity; some twit at GW seems to have misunderstood 'millennia' in the very first Necron fluff with 'millions of years', so suddenly the Necrons became unfeasibly old and the age of the Eldar was extended to accommodate that (originally the Necrons were something like 500,000 years old when they revived). Personally I ignore that fluff and imagine that the Eldar encountered the Necrons during a previous awakening from stasis. Although even old background suggests the Eldar were a technologically advanced race before humans evolved, i.e. more than 6 million years ago.

Incidentally, the Fall of the Eldar has been pinned down at 11,000 years ago, a thousand years before the birth of the Imperium - the latest Eldar Codex suggests they hadn't had official contact with humanity before then, although both races were advanced and spacefaring at that time.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

as i understand it Daal-En has it pretty much right (though i don't recall reading anything that suggested that they were a allience). i'm at work at the moment, but i will try and look up some specific references when i get back.



Loyal Lunawolf said:


> any ideas of what they would look like?


as i believe the Slaan are the decendents of the Old Ones the way they would appear is as amphibious reptillian creatures. also they are usually depicted as being small and weak in comparison to other races and having cultures more akin to indiginous Americans than anything else (with a healthy respect for the world around them and a tribal warrior culture).

i've already started making a Slaan army (and even trying to write some rules for them), but i currently only use Skink models.

as for how they behave, i personally think that of the current rules available the Eldar's would be the best (though still not good). they seem to have an emphasis on altruism and co-existance, so Farseers and Warlocks that add buffs to units to make them more potent and no Autarchs who hog the glory to themselves.



warmaster isaan said:


> i think someone should do a book on the jakkaro i'm sure it would be quite good instead of constantly chaos and IG and eldar!!!!!!! maybe even some more book on tyranids and tau coz no one does books on them!!!!


a Jokearo army would suck, purely because the Jokearo suck. they are always described as being terrible combatants and die very quickly. they are also utterly aloof and cannot be bargined or reasoned with. they also have little interest in technology for themselves and will not go out of their way to make anything. the key to getting anything out of them is to find a way to force them to build something (i.e. trapping them on a moon will make them build a spaceship to escape).

that's why it is so rare to come across something made by the Jokearo, and yet they are some of the most sophisticated and delicate technicians in the galaxy.


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## Loyal Lunawolf (Feb 27, 2009)

Lupercal101 said:


> that was the fluff from a while ago, but again GW changes the fluff to suit sales without justification, and as I said before, in page 6 of the new army book " They created as they had elsewhere, servants to tend their needs. The First spawning of the slann mage-priests came into being." I rekon their are different types of Old Ones, cause in humans their are black people and white people and brwon people. Since your skin colour depends on where your from (people native to Africa have dark skin because it helps protect you from sunlight), maybe the Old Ones had one type of Old One that had super psyker skills and another that had some other super ability like speed or really long eye sight or something. Maybe their planet was near the one of the earlest warp rifts, and all the Old Ones powers were just mutations. I only think this because it seems kinda impossible for a microbe to grow into the most powerful being that ever has existed and ever will exist.
> 
> If that was true then why didn't any other race around get this stuff, like humans (assuming the Old Ones didn't interfere with our growth, and we did get the powers eventually but only about a couple of billion years later and not even a fraction of what the Old Ones possessed) or Necrontyr or any other race that existed then. It just dosen't seem possible. The current fluff says the Slaan were created by the Old Ones so thats it, no more questions asked.
> 
> ...



well i think they would look like humans but would be like a serpent

for example a human with a tail and a reptile mouth

dunno like if i was making models which i prob will i would mix imperial guard,eldar and lizardmen sprues


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## Inquisitor Malaclypse (Dec 6, 2008)

Lupercal101 said:


> fluff says he was created bt 1000 shamans fusd into one, he was about as close to being a god as someone who isn't can get. I don't know, but maybe.


by technicality, he wasn't created, he was born in Anatolia ca. 10K BC from all the 'true' shamans left on earth as they were losing their ability to reincarnate. they decided to join souls into one 'super-soul' to protect mankind as the Emperor.

so far the best idea for doing the Old Ones, IMHO, would be to go with the WHFB Lizardmen models. 

and to represent their nigh on powerful technology, i would combine rules from some of the best units in 40K together and adjust the points accordingly. say a Slann with MEQ armor saves but with Necron Gauss technology. just a thought.

i'll give the my copy of Rogue Trade a look over and see what i can find on this; it's interesting.


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

I think it would be better if, when we decide what they should look like, is why you think they would look like that. Why is everyone drawn to lizardmen? it has been stated that the Old Ones created them. The Lizardmen are the Slaan, the old ones are the old ones. The Lizardmen are not biological descendants of the old ones, the fluff says so. People who think the old ones look like the lizardmen are being very narrow minded. Maybe they look like Eldar, since they created them, or maybe they look like orks? They could look like the Jokero, or the Bargehsi or even the tau! There are unlimited possiblities. I think to aviod alot more argument, we could say they were so powerful they could look like whatever they wanted to. So, they used this ability in combat and changed their bodys to suit their combat role eg; if they were fast attack they gave themselves wings, scouting they would change themselves into a pile of leaves or a native animal or something. That way everybody gets what they want.


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

OMG, i just figured it out!!!!!! Disregard anything I said about the Lizardmen not being biological descendants of the Old Ones. I was reading through the fluff and I noticed what the orks say about the Old Ones, or they called them 'brain boyz'. It said they were to small to fight for themselves so created the orks to fight for them! it said there was some kind of disaster that killed most of the brain boyz and that set the orks free. Now picture a Skink: small, to small to fight for itself so it gos in large groups. How does that not fit the description for the brain boyz?! Skinks are the old ones! I think the disaster was the war with the C'tan, the old ones were driven back to their home planet. They emerged into a state of primitiveism (it has happened to every race, it can happen to the old ones as well) and a heirachy emerged completely different to what had been before. When the skinks left for space, they left their planet full of protectors (Saurus,Kroxigors, magepreists). When they became primtive a very ork-like system became apparent. The most powerful were at the top (slaan mage preits) and the weakest at the bottom (skinks). Everything falls into place now! The Old Ones army could be Skinks in a tribe of lizardmen that somehow they remembered their past when they told the others a hidden part of their brain that told them who was their master kicked into gear and they went out to re-take the galaxy. they are not nearly up to where they had been but new meories of how to build/do something appear evey day.they have taken a few of every race they created back onto their planet to create an army like the ones of the war against the C'tan.


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

Lupercal101 said:


> Now picture a Skink: small, to small to fight for itself so it gos in large groups. How does that not fit the description for the brain boyz?! Skinks are the old ones! I think the disaster was the war with the C'tan, the old ones were driven back to their home planet. They emerged into a state of primitiveism (it has happened to every race, it can happen to the old ones as well) and a heirachy emerged completely different to what had been before.


that's exactly what i said several posts ago.

i'm not really sure about the whole MEQ idea, but i certainly imagine that they would be like a more extreme version of the Eldar. Elite, light and fast, relying heavily on psychic support from one another. in some form or another another these are exactly the traits that have been passed on to their creation (along with some additional buffs).


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## Loyal Lunawolf (Feb 27, 2009)

Lupercal101 said:


> OMG, i just figured it out!!!!!! Disregard anything I said about the Lizardmen not being biological descendants of the Old Ones. I was reading through the fluff and I noticed what the orks say about the Old Ones, or they called them 'brain boyz'. It said they were to small to fight for themselves so created the orks to fight for them! it said there was some kind of disaster that killed most of the brain boyz and that set the orks free. Now picture a Skink: small, to small to fight for itself so it gos in large groups. How does that not fit the description for the brain boyz?! Skinks are the old ones! I think the disaster was the war with the C'tan, the old ones were driven back to their home planet. They emerged into a state of primitiveism (it has happened to every race, it can happen to the old ones as well) and a heirachy emerged completely different to what had been before. When the skinks left for space, they left their planet full of protectors (Saurus,Kroxigors, magepreists). When they became primtive a very ork-like system became apparent. The most powerful were at the top (slaan mage preits) and the weakest at the bottom (skinks). Everything falls into place now! The Old Ones army could be Skinks in a tribe of lizardmen that somehow they remembered their past when they told the others a hidden part of their brain that told them who was their master kicked into gear and they went out to re-take the galaxy. they are not nearly up to where they had been but new meories of how to build/do something appear evey day.they have taken a few of every race they created back onto their planet to create an army like the ones of the war against the C'tan.



but eons after they could be tall and bold 

i probably have eldar armour but better


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

So you are saying they would be kinda like saurus? I guess that would make sense. maybe they evoled into small beings, because they didn't have to fight at all after the war. Who knows? I'm not sure that putting saurus heads on an Eldar body would wotk, but maybe a skinks. To make it fairer, maybe say that because they were in hiding for so long they lost their great abilitys, and now they are only fractionally more powerful than the other races. That way they could have the same stats as Space Marines, with lower strength and higher Initative. Then have the ork and eldar allies. Done!


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## admiraldick (Sep 9, 2008)

having gone back and re-read all the relevant background there are a number of things i would want to point out about the things you 'know' about the Old Ones:

- there is absolutely no background justification to say exactly how many 'old ones' are left, only that they are 'scattered' and 'broken'.

- there are absolutely no background justifications to say that they are synonymous with any form of deity (such as the remaining Eldar gods or Gork and Mork). specifically, the Ork god's are not considered to be the creators of the Ork race, simply a by product of it.

- i haven't seen anything that says they created the Slaan (they certainly not in the list of 'younger races' given in C: Necrons), though the language used in RT to describe the Slaan is synonymous with the language used to describe the Old Ones in C: Necrons. that doesn't mean they are the same thing, but if it is true then it is a lot more logical than suggesting that they are Gork and Mork.

- i don't know if there is a definite suggestion that the Old Ones created the Orks. they certainly created a race called the Krork, who have a similar name and attributes (being green and hardy), but are not necessarily the same. i would personally say that they did create the Orks, but i wouldn't say that it was a canon fact.

- there is no background justification to say that the Old Ones are synonymous to the 'Brain Boyz'. the Brain Boyz were not the originators of the Orks, merely another caste of greenskin and the architects of current Ork culture. the suggestion is the Brain Boyz either died out or devolved into Grotz. it is not beyond credulity to say that the Krorks and Brain Boyz were synonymous, but again it is not canon fact.

- we don't know anything about the physique of the Old Ones, there was nothing to say they were humanoid, but as everything else in the game is it would hardly be surprising. we are not told that the Eldar/Jokaero are designed to look like the Old Ones, or even designed at all (they could simply have been nurtured from a pre-historic state). but the language used to describe the Old Ones does imply that they are reptilian or amphibious.

- i agree that there is no suggestion that the Old Ones created the Human race (in the same way they 'created' the Eldar), but considering they are usually included in the brackets of 'younger race' and they share more than a passing similarity to Orks and Eldar (in their use of the warp and similar dnature), when compared to non-younger races like Tyranids, Necrons and Daemons, it is not unbelievable to say that they are.


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