# The Emperor on the Golden Throne.



## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

The Emperor sits on the Golden Throne in a state of undeath. How much does Imperial citizens know about it. F.ex.Vladimir Pugh the Imperial Fist Chapter Master certainly knows about his fate as he removed his tastebuds and sense of smell in self-penitence over the loss of 140 Imperial Fists, so I take it that the Space Marines knows about his fate at least in the first founding chapters. 

But what about the ordinary citizens and soldiers? Would commissars or Sororitas of high rank know about his fate, Inquisitors? Where do the buck stop?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Well in a galaxy spanning empire where knowledge is power, you can bet that the regular imperial citizen will not know of how the Emperor came to be interred on the golden throne, or at the very least not the truth of it. Instead, at best, they would know the version proclaimed by the Eclessiarchy, who tote the Emperor as a 'god' who 'ascended' to the golden throne.

This would extend to most of the other Imperial bodies, barring the inquisition and space marines. Imperial Guard/Navy is drawn from the people of the Imperium, and so would not be privy to the truth. The sororitas have a fair portion of their knowledge steeped in the teachings of the Eclessiarchy, so while some of the highest ranking sisters may know the reality of stuff the average one only knows a skewed truth.

The space marines are, more or less, aware of the full truth regarding the Emperor. Though some things have been forgotten or skewed after thousands of years, marines do not regard the Emperor as a god, and a big part of their respective history is the Horus Heresy and what the Emperor's greatest son did.

This also holds true for the inquisition, whose very founding is rooted in the aftermath of the Heresy and Scouring. They would know the full extent of why the Emperor is on the throne. Additionally, the highest ranking members of the Adeptus Mechanicus would also be aware of the circumstances behind the Emperor being on the throne.


Overall, those who know likely only number in the several thousand or so. Which, when you think about it is the equivalent of no one.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

The Imperial church teaches, the emperor retired to the golden throne after kicking the ass of a heretic named horus. (Hammer and Anvil and it's prequel, forgot it's name)


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

How does Empy function at a Golden Thrown? That sounds like something accidentally hilarious. You mean Empy is being catapulted around, wouldn't that be a bid undignified for him?

Yeah and I guess they don't teach the Space Marines that at recruitment-day darkreaver. I think I can envision the scene.

Bunch of ragged boys from the wilderness are gathered, the blackclad Chaplain steps forward and then tells them. "The Ecclechiarcy have lied to you lot, the Emperor is a shell of himself dying on the Golden Throne!"

Hopefully the putdown is a bit gentler than that, but it would explain that many turn traitor.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> How does Empy function at a Golden Thrown? That sounds like something accidentally hilarious. You mean Empy is being catapulted around, wouldn't that be a bid undignified for him?


You know what I mean.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

locustgate said:


> You know what I mean.


Of course, I also thought your comment was accidentally funny while imagining Empy being tossed around in his undead state. It's a deliberate misunderstanding on my part to amuse myself.


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## Teedyrj (Jun 1, 2013)

Astropaths know the full truth after all the kneel before him as he rewires there minds. I'm guessing that some Astropaths are going to talk about it some time, particular the one with rough traders, this probably mean the Information is out there if a citizen want to find it. But I recon only tho half way to heretic would go looking.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Actually most Astropaths can't talk, so that's a very small problem, and communicating telepathically wouldn't end well for an Astropath in the IOM. But there are likely billions of them so there went the number darkreever operated with.


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## Teedyrj (Jun 1, 2013)

Beaviz81 said:


> Actually most Astropaths can't talk, so that's a very small problem, and communicating telepathically wouldn't end well for an Astropath in the IOM. But there are likely billions of them so there went the number darkreever operated with.




Most are mute, I didn't know that I knew they mostly went blind, how do they relay the messages they receive?


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Telepathically, then they interpret the message and send it to another psyker that is not bereft of taste, seeing, smell and hearing. Though I think at more advanced planets they likely have been fitted with things so they at least can speak and maybe even see for the Astropaths that are really lucky.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Beaviz81 said:


> Telepathically, then they interpret the message and send it to another psyker that is not bereft of taste, seeing, smell and hearing. Though I think at more advanced planets they likely have been fitted with things so they at least can speak and maybe even see for the Astropaths that are really lucky.


I've read several books with talking astropaths.(farseer, couple of HH books, Night lords books, Ravenor, Eisenhorn, and Fire Caste) Most of the books with astropaths I've read have them actually talking to people or using voxes. Some imps could be muting them though, i.e. cutting vocal cords/ rip tongue out.

Farseer


The astropath was able to talk to the rouge trader, give orders to the crew, physically have a conversation with another astropath, and talk to eldars.


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## Teedyrj (Jun 1, 2013)

locustgate said:


> I've read several books with talking astropaths.(farseer, couple of HH books, Night lords books, Ravenor, Eisenhorn, and Fire Caste)


I've played Astropaths in rough trader, I don't remember speak being a problem, I could be mistaken or this could be another example of contradictory fluff. The eyesight is a thing but most Astropaths learn to use there newly improved mind to "see" so in the game it's a positive thing as your no longer at a penalty to see in the dark.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

locustgate said:


> I've read several books with talking astropaths.(farseer, couple of HH books, Night lords books, Ravenor, Eisenhorn, and Fire Caste)
> 
> Farseer
> 
> ...


I added they were lucky, and you haven't disproved me. The fact of the matter is that soulbinding to Empy usually steal your sense of smell, talk, taste, hearing and seeing, doesn't mean you can't have Astropaths that have all senses intact, and you didn't mention if they seemed to have received operations to extend their usually short life.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Teedyrj said:


> I've played Astropaths in rough trader, I don't remember speak being a problem, I could be mistaken or this could be another example of contradictory fluff. The eyesight is a thing but most Astropaths learn to use there newly improved mind to "see" so in the game it's a positive thing as your no longer at a penalty to see in the dark.


Hahaha Rough Trader. That sounds like a bad thing to combine, a bully and a trader. Hehehe.


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## Teedyrj (Jun 1, 2013)

locustgate said:


> I've read several books with talking astropaths.(farseer, couple of HH books, Night lords books, Ravenor, Eisenhorn, and Fire Caste)


I've played Astropaths in rough trader, I don't remember speak being a problem, I could be mistaken or this could be another example of contradictory fluff. The eyesight is a thing but most Astropaths learn to use there newly improved mind to "see" so in the game it's a positive thing as your no longer at a penalty to see in the dark.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

(lex)
Soul Binding can results in death, possession (VERY RARE) madness, loss of taste, sight, touch, hearing, ability to smell, but not voice.
However their heightened psyker ability can result in an almost sight or they can have augments replace their damaged eyes.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

First, by the gods its rogue trader, not rough trader.

Second, where exactly did you read it being said that the Soul Binding ritual robs an astropath of all of his senses? Because last I checked it killed some, drove many insane, and robbed most of the strongest of their eyesight.

Adding to that, how would astropaths become aware of the circumstances leading to the Emperor being on the golden throne? Just because they see him on it does not instantly grant them the knowledge of how he got there, nor would people just up and tell them the exact truth (assuming those around knew it.)


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

I was in error there, I was leaning on memory and interpretation for that one. My error as I read up at Lexicanum, I remember the Astropaths as more monstrous than I should.

And I already pointed and laughed about Rough Trader.

They are imbued by the Emperor's essence, so they might inherit his memories, which I attribute drives many humans insane or even kills them.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Second, where exactly did you read it being said that the Soul Binding ritual robs an astropath of all of his senses? Because last I checked it killed some, drove many insane, and robbed most of the strongest of their eyesight.
> 
> Adding to that, how would astropaths become aware of the circumstances leading to the Emperor being on the golden throne? Just because they see him on it does not instantly grant them the knowledge of how he got there, nor would people just up and tell them the exact truth (assuming those around knew it.)


Lexicanum. It did say the lost of sight is almost guaranteed.

Point they kneel in front of the throne, which is a giant pyramid shape/sized machine.


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## Teedyrj (Jun 1, 2013)

Sorry about the spelling mistake, spelling isn't my strong suite. The original question said that was about weather the average guy would know the deathless state of the emperor not how he came to be in that state. For what it worth I recon most people believe him be just as good as the preachers say, not that you couldn't find the truth if you looked around, cultist etc. probably know of his weakness. But at the end of the day it don't possible to come up with definitive answers to question about a fictional god-thing so in a way any answers that fit what your doing us right.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Ignore my previous statement about them kneeling before they golden throne, they kneel before the emperor himself.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Quoted from Lexicanum.

The Soul Binding is a ritual conducted by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica of the Imperium, which is responsible for creating Astropaths. 

Normal psykers are unable to transmit telepathic messages across vast distances through the warp. Astropaths undergo special training over many years before taking part in this special rit,e where their minds are brought before the great psychic might of the Emperor himself. During this process, a portion of the Emperor's vast essence is transfered into that of the Astropath. The transference process is a traumatic experience, with not all being successful despite many years of training, with some not surviving and those that do lose much of their sanity. The most visible result of the Soul Binding is damage to the sensitive nerves of the eyes, which leaves almost all Astropaths blind. However, the ritual imparts them greater psychic skills which tends to make up for their lost eyesight and they tend to not act as if they are blind.

Astropath training ultimately ends with this rite which is a techno arcane initiation ritual that greatly opens their minds to the warp. The ritualistic soul binding to the Emperor can protect many psykers from the perils of the Warp. The entities of the warp are a hideous threat to those psykers who have not undergone the Soul Binding ritual. According to legend by M41, the first psyker to take part in the Soul Binding ritual was Malcador the Sigilite who became forever linked to the Master of Mankind.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Quoted from Lex

Training and binding

Astropaths are psykers collected by the Imperium's Black Ships whose powers are considerable, but who lack the mental strength to resist the dangers of the Warp.

They are trained at the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, where they undergo years of training and extensive indoctrination. At the end of this period, they undergo a techno-arcane ritual, known as Soul Binding. They prepare for months, fasting and praying; then they are brought a hundred at a time in procession to the Emperor's Palace and the ritual takes place: they kneel before the Emperor and he himself (being the only psyker powerful enough to complete such a task) reshapes their very minds.

On one side, Soul Binding shapes their powers, allowing them to safely interact with the Warp and to broadcast messages through it and preventing them from being tainted by the Warp: they resist easier than other psykers to daemonic possession and daemons' powers and they are even less prone to the Perils of the Warp. In fact, after the ritual they are linked to the Emperor and their new abilities are a result of the combination of their powers with a fraction of the Emperor's.

On the other side, Soul Binding is not an absolutely safe measure, so Astropaths still face the risk of succumbing to daemons In addition, during the ritual they must endure several hours of agony and this results in a real trauma In general, all have their personalities altered to some extent Touching the mind of the God-Emperor himself is also such an intense sensory experience that it completely overloads their sensory organs, to the point that some of the Astropaths are killed or driven insane during the process. Those who survive are permanently blinded and most of them even suffer from nerve damage, which results in a loss of smell, touch or hearing. Although blinded, Astropaths make up for their sensory lacks with the help of their psychic abilities: they develop a sort of "near-sense", which means that few of them choose to have mechanical eyes implanted


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Yes, that article states that in addition to losing their sight, some astropaths may lose one or more other senses. But keep note that such a thing is no guarantee, and once again where do the astropaths learn of the Emperors fate (what was asked in the first post) when they receive the Soul Binding?


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

As I mentioned darkreever they might gain his memories which could drive any human insane, and I admit it's my speculation, but they might gain his memories due to being sould-bound to Empy. It's more a logical guess for me than anything else. But it can't be disproved either.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Yes, that article states that in addition to losing their sight, some astropaths may lose one or more other senses. But keep note that such a thing is no guarantee, and once again where do the astropaths learn of the Emperors fate (what was asked in the first post) when they receive the Soul Binding?


I said they CAN, not they will.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

I never said you did, but Beaviz on the other hand did say that astropaths can't talk. After you attempted to point out otherwise, he went on to say that they lose all their senses.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

I remembered wrongly, pure and simple.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

The Imperium consists of a million worlds. A million. That means it consists of thousands of millions of individual cultures and societies. They don't all worship the God-Emperor as the saviour and protector of humanity as more mainstream worlds and the central tenants of the Ecclesiarchy dictate. 

There are undoubtedly thousands of primative cultures who worship the God-Emperor as a sun-god, or as the god of thunder, or as the bringer of rains. Cultures who have absolutley no clue that the God-Emperor is _really_ a corpse shackled to a throne on a distant world they don't even believe exists. As long as such beliefs pose no direct threat to the Ecclesiarchy and can peacefully co-exist with the tenants of the Imperial Cult (no matter how shoe-horned) then that's fine.

I imagine in many cultures, Terra itself is only a myth. Only perpetuated by the fact that the vast majority of pilgrims who intend to travel to Humanity's birth-world, never make it. And if that is the case, concepts such as the Horus Heresy, Primarchs, Space Marines, the Golden Throne and the Siege of Terra are at best, just fantastical myths.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

locustgate said:


> Ignore my previous statement about them kneeling before they golden throne, they kneel before the emperor himself.


Hmmmmm... on a different line from the current discussion, the Emperor's ability to conduct the Soul Binding ritual on a daily basis is pretty confirming evidence of his ongoing vitality. If the ritual was beyond a psyker of the power of Malcador, then it tells me the Big E still has a lot of juice left in him, regardless of the state of his physical manifestation.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

He is fed psykers, just like Dark Eldars feed on souls, which means Empy has a much larger appetite for life than even the most depraved Dark Eldar feeding by the minute, it's like feeding a raging fire, he replaces and releases the energy daily, and he is powerful enough to still do miracles.


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## Fiddlestix (Mar 21, 2013)

Maybe they should get him a Hoveround. OMG Imagine the stench the Emperor probably gives off. Whew! lol


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Wouldn't they just spray the area with X-It 30.000 making the smell go away?


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Beaviz81 said:


> Quoted from Lexicanum.
> 
> According to legend by M41, the first psyker to take part in the Soul Binding ritual was Malcador the Sigilite who became forever linked to the Master of Mankind.


Just got me to thinking, if Malcador did go through the soul-binding ritual, then he's living proof that the ritual doesn't HAVE to result in buring out the optic nerve. Or at least in every fluff description of Malcador in the HH that I've read he appeared to have all his faculties. I've also never heard of an Astares Libriarian with burned-out optic nerves... or is this just special treatment for psykers destined to live out their days as organic trans-spatial radios? I thought all psykers had to go through the soul-binding ritual sooner or later if they wanted to live.

While I'm loathe to quote a book with such huge fluff issues, in The Outcast Dead, there seem to be a whole bunch of Astrotelepaths running around The Silent City with their eyes and other senses still intact.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Just got me to thinking, if Malcador did go through the soul-binding ritual, then he's living proof that the ritual doesn't HAVE to result in buring out the optic nerve. Or at least in every fluff description of Malcador in the HH that I've read he appeared to have all his faculties. I've also never heard of an Astares Libriarian with burned-out optic nerves... or is this just special treatment for psykers destined to live out their days as organic trans-spatial radios? I thought all psykers had to go through the soul-binding ritual sooner or later if they wanted to live.
> 
> While I'm loathe to quote a book with such huge fluff issues, in The Outcast Dead, there seem to be a whole bunch of Astrotelepaths running around The Silent City with their eyes and other senses still intact.



Maybe the emp is able to direct the binding so that the person doesn't suffer any loss, or he just heals them, it's the emp he can do some pretty awesome stuff.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Just got me to thinking, if Malcador did go through the soul-binding ritual, then he's living proof that the ritual doesn't HAVE to result in buring out the optic nerve. Or at least in every fluff description of Malcador in the HH that I've read he appeared to have all his faculties. I've also never heard of an Astares Libriarian with burned-out optic nerves... or is this just special treatment for psykers destined to live out their days as organic trans-spatial radios? I thought all psykers had to go through the soul-binding ritual sooner or later if they wanted to live.
> 
> While I'm loathe to quote a book with such huge fluff issues, in The Outcast Dead, there seem to be a whole bunch of Astrotelepaths running around The Silent City with their eyes and other senses still intact.


It's actually only often. Until I read it up I went for the more gruesome thingy that they lost most of their senses. Of course I still carry that notion for my own fanfic, but that's a noted exception, not how I regard things in general.

And as for often. That for me means around fifty percent, as for how witch-sight is I tend to go for Matrix, but they see Lelith as a shriveled crone not a lush temptress of the arena.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Soul binding is for those psykers not strong enough to stand on their own against possession, fortifying their minds. But also allowing them to become galactic radios. all other psykers that are strong enough to not need the soul binding, goes to other imperial institutions like the Inquisition or the Astartes if exceptional enough. Elsewise the masses of normal strenght psykers serve as sanctioned psykers usually in the imperial guard.


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## Beaviz81 (Feb 24, 2012)

That's a lie, soulbinding is for any psyker at least any Astropath. Not just the weak and unstable, they actually get fed to Empy to sustain him.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

As far as I recall it was only astropaths who went through the soul binding ritual. I think it had something to do with specifically shaping their minds to allow them to send out and receive psychic messages across long distances through the warp without going batshit crazy and/or possessed. The way I see it, most psykers simply draw from the warp, something that is already risky to say the least. Astropaths have to take it a step further and fling their minds across the warp to communicate with each other over interstellar distances. Hence why they need the soul binding for extra protection.

The average psyker, depending on their strength, talent and ability to control their powers, is either sent to the Scholastica Psykana for training/analysis if they look like their powers might be useful, or, like Beaviz said, fed to the Emperor if it looks like they dangerous/weak-willed/unstable and/or their powers have no real practical application. The "lucky" ones who don't become the Emperor's soul food are then either sent off to the Guard, Grey Knights, Inquisition, certain Space Marine chapters or off to be soul bound, becoming an Astropath, etc. depending on their strength and talent. Though I admit I'm not sure how much training individual psykers receive before being handed over to the different Imperial branches. It's implied that Hyperion aka Zael Effernetti was given over to the Grey Knights pretty quickly after his full potential was recognized. Though whether this was simply due to age and wanting to get him into the Implantation process as quickly as possible I'm not sure.

As for the burned out eyes etc. maybe it wasn't always the case. Maybe the process got a bit harsher after Magnus fucked over Terra and the Emperor had to constantly keep part of his mind focused on preventing Terra from being overrun by daemons. So the soul-binding process became more difficult to accomplish with part of the Emperor's power diverted to keeping the hole in the Imperial webway closed. And it probably only got worse after the Emperor's fight with Horus.


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