# Versus... Kholek Suneater (7th)



## squeek

Hi all,

Continuing with the Fantasy Versus... series, next on the list is Kholek Suneater (suggested by Vaz and Inquistor Aurelius). If you want to add your suggestions as to who Fantasy Versus should deal with next, go here for the general thread.

So, Kholek Suneater, how do you combat arguably one of the most powerful killing machines in the game? Causes Terror and ItP, he has a Scaly Skin save and a statline to make the most fearsome lord blush, with such beauties as 7 WS8 S8 attacks as standard! With the vast majority of opponents he will be hitting on a 3, wounding on a 2.

Kholek is immune to lightning-based attacks like the Lore of Heaven spell Forked Lightning as well as attacks such as Skaven warp lightning. Indeed, these lightning-based attacks send Shaggoths frenzied, and in Kholek's case he can protect nearby units from lightning-based attacks as well, effectively nullifying these attacks and spells. He has a lightning based shooting attack that is capable of D6 S6 hits and does D3 wounds in CC, a fearsome opponent indeed!

So how do you plan to combat him? Do you have a preferred unit or tactic that works every time? Do you just rely on shooting and artillery and hope your opponent fails the saves enough? Are you always able to counter with tarpit or equally powerful units?

If you are one of _those players_ who uses him regularly what tactics work against you?


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## Critta

I'd say the best way of dealing with him is to just throw as much shooting as you can in his direction and hope he dies (or is reduced to very few wounds) before he makes contact with you.

Other than that, knocking a few wounds off then hitting him with a decent cavalry unit might work.

His main disadvantage is the lack of ward or regen save, so if you can get past the 2+ armour save, you're sorted.


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## Ascendant Valor

Since his durability stems form his high Toughness and reasonable AS, the best all-around resolution to this problem is something with high Strength. However, the fact that he causes Terror and can blast a unit with a lightning attack complicates the matter. Not to mention that if Kholek himself gets the charge, he can easily decimate an entire unit. 

So, the best bet, as stated already, is something with high Strength. Preferably with a higher leadership or immunity to terror in some form or another. That way, his greatest defensive assets are nullified.

Hence, a charge from some knights will work wonders, if you must engage him in CC. Standard missile fire is a joke against him. An entire line of bows, guns, or crossbows will almost certainly bounce off his armor and skin, and with a decent number of wounds, it would take at least three strong turns of missile fire to bring Kholek down.

So, I would have to suggest some artillery. A cannon, stone thrower, bolt thrower, and so forth. That way, psychology is nullified and he can't attack back.

If that is unavailable, magic can do some damage. Enough magic missiles or armor-ignoring spells will do some damage, hopefully enough to reduce Kholek's prowess considerably and make your opponent start to reconsider sending him in.

Cliff Notes: Use Artillery or Spells, or even strong CC units.


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## kungfoomasta

my solution to almost everything is blood knights buffed with van dansles macrabe


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

I reckon a pair of Slaaneshi (ASF) Giants would work. If you can get them both into combat with him at the same time, then that's sorted. If you can't then, the first will do some (quite possibly lots of) damage to Kholek due to his I1 before dying itself, and the second should finish him off. Works with other Giants as well, except that you have to be the one charging, which might be tricky with Kholek's Movement. A tarpit could keep him in one place long enough for you to krump him, though.


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## effigy22

Empire Arch Lector with armour of meteoric armour, holy relic, van horstmanns speculum and a great weapon, in combat declare a challenge (Kholek cannot refuse since he is a monster and on his own) swap stats and Kholek becomes screwed!

The gd ol arch lector trick is good against most uber hard lords.


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## Othiem

effigy22 said:


> The gd ol arch lector trick is good against most uber hard lords.


So depressing the only way Empire gets combat viable heros is by abusing the fact that they have such poor statlines =/


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

Othiem said:


> So depressing the only way Empire gets combat viable heros is by abusing the fact that they have such poor statlines =/


:laugh: Sorry Othiem, that just made me laugh.

No ward or Rengen makes this guy a tasty War Machine Target. Most of them ignore armour, have high strength and cause multiple wounds to boot! Alot of combat-orientated special characters could do some damage if they got the charge, especially with a unit of cavalry assisting them. Alot of armies also have either powerful mounts or deadly magic weapons, which could help out. 

Just my two cents, my first Vs thread reply as well =D

Now, lets go find *cough*Vaz*cough* :biggrin:


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

Ooh, got another one (and cheap too!): the Brass Orb. Kholek is on a large base, so it's easy to hit him; he's unable to join a unit due to Ancient Pride, and thus has no way of getting a "Look Out, Sir!" roll; and he's I1. One shot, one kill. Boy, would Vaz be pissed ...

Posting exact points costs of items and upgrades is against forum rules and GW IP rights - squeek


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## Vaz

Skitterleap and brass Orb = overpowered. Skaven are far too nasty on a One v One fight for their costs, when the rest of armies pay through the nose.

Still, it's a waste of a perfectly good character that the Skaven need for Leadership, because he's going to be rat-paste next turn.

Still. I always run Kholek with a couple of Shaggoths. Fluffy and Cheesy at the same time.

Also, at the moment, seeing as there is no Model for Kholek, it's down to me using 3 Shaggoths for the models. Guess Who???

Tarpitting. BSB, and a Hero, on the cheapest unit you have. Preferably with a Champion.

Slayers are perfect as well for that. Take 5 Slayer Champions, and you have an unbreakable unit, and then you just challenge each time. A Slayer Lord with a Grudge Rune dedicated to Kholek is just the shit as well.

Otherwise, armour or toughness ingoring/high strength weaponry is good for taking on this Badboy.


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## effigy22

Othiem said:


> So depressing the only way Empire gets combat viable heros is by abusing the fact that they have such poor statlines =/


Ah but there are downsides to him, him being alot of points (for an empire character) and him not being that great outside of a challenge with a hard character.

Plus what screws over the empire arch lector of doom tends to be an elf on dragon with a null stone! (and i have ran into quite a few of them!)


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## Othiem

Anybody every try intentionally blasting him with lightning when the only thing in range is some sacrificial fast cavalry, then just applying you're standard anti-frenzy moves? Also, just noticed a typo on the WoC book, it makes a reference to the spell Storm of Chronos, I think they meant Urannon's thunderbolt though.


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## squeek

Well spotted Othiem, I hadn't noticed when I looked at the WoC entry.


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## Skreining

Personaly i would and did charge him with a tyrant armed with a tenderiser, Brahmir Statue and giant breaker wounding on 4's, no save and D3 wounds and if he loses he's at -3 Ld. Hehe that took him out.

Other wise hit him with the frostblade (1 wound= outright kill) or a similar weapon. Or alternatively throw as many S5 attacks as possible at him. Although the last one depends on him being as tough as i think he is, (8),otherwise take away 3 as required.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius

That Tyrant's illegal - he's got 110 points worth of Magic Items (that's not too specific, right? I mean, I haven't listed their costs individually or done anything daft like that :blush. Big Names shouldn't count against the limit, but they do.

And Kholek is (thank the gods) "only" T6. He does have eight Wounds, though. So that makes the Frostblade very, very good. Particularly with the... wozzname... Dread Knight (?) power. Just make damn sure you get the charge, or you're cooked.


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## squeek

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> That Tyrant's illegal - he's got 110 points worth of Magic Items (that's not too specific, right? I mean, I haven't listed their costs individually or done anything daft like that :blush.


From a strictly forum rules point of view that is perfectly fine, it is only individual costs of items, models and upgrades that are frowned upon (along with excessive direct quoting of rules, etc). Posting that is no different to posting the cost of a 3 model unit in an armylist, for example. The caveat was to indicate I don't have the time to check the validity of the information currently... :wink:


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## Skreining

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> And Kholek is (thank the gods) "only" T6. He does have eight Wounds, though. So that makes the Frostblade very, very good. Particularly with the... wozzname... Dread Knight (?) power. Just make damn sure you get the charge, or you're cooked.


oh my mistake. In that case scratch the giant breaker for bullgorger (the spell)so he's wounding on 2's, no save and D3 wounds and if he loses he's at -3 Ld.


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## Maxius

i have been testing kholek out myself and people are coming up with solutions to beat him in a one on one match up the only thing that can do it is a great unclean one with a bale sword (d6 wounds) and archaon (if he gets lucky with the demon sword and his saves) basically the great unclean one is lucky he has 10 wounds and that dodgy 5 up ward otherwise he wouldn't have a chance. a tyrant stands no hope what so ever so have no idea how that work empire unless they have there cheesy mirror vamps with frostblade works (who takes it no one) so ye kholek is nails!


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## Critta

One interesting way of getting rid of Kholek relies on him having rolled a 1 for his shooting attack at some point.

Basically you're looking at getting him lined up so if he loses combat, he'll be fleeing into impassable terrain, he has to take the bait because he's frenzied (would also work with dumb or overconfident opponent and a non-frenzied Kholek).

Then you're basically just trying to get enough static res on him, or survive the first turn combat and countercharge him with something killy in the flank to make him break and flee in to the impassable terrain.

Pretty basic hammer and anvil, just needs some impassable terrain to force him to flee into.


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## Dafistofmork

hammer him with dwarf artilery (single runic cannon and organ should do it) twin BT & quallerers/thunderers for his mates, then force him into combat with the uber 400pt dwarf lord of doom in a unit of hammerers (that standard that slows down the charge by d6" may allow you to get the charge as well).


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## Tim/Steve

Skreining said:


> Personaly i would and did charge him with a tyrant armed with a tenderiser, Brahmir Statue and giant breaker wounding on 4's, no save and D3 wounds and if he loses he's at -3 Ld. Hehe that took him out.
> 
> Other wise hit him with the frostblade (1 wound= outright kill) or a similar weapon. Or alternatively throw as many S5 attacks as possible at him. Although the last one depends on him being as tough as i think he is, (8),otherwise take away 3 as required.


Hate to point this out but the Brahmir Statue is pretty much useless- esp so in this case since it only affects Psychology tests, not break tests.


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