# FIGHT: C'tan or Chaos Gods



## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Who do you think would win in a battle of gods

*C'tan or the Chaos Gods*

*Deceiver vs. Tzeentch

Void Dragon vs. Khorne

Night Bringer vs. Nurgle

Outsider vs. Slaanesh*

or anyone vs eachother because they kinda are the same if you read about them really


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

Considering the C'Tan's vulnerability to the Warp (daemons, psychic attacks, etc) and their inability to access it, we are in a situation where each Chaos god can direct minions to attack the C'Tan very effectively while the C'Tan are unable to strike at the Chaos Gods directly.

In other words, the C'Tan would be facing their most dangerous foe while the Chaos gods would be immune from counter attack. The only real thing the C'Tan could do is to resume their effort to seal the warp off from our dimension, so their best case scenario is a draw.


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

But they do harvest souls and I think in a way the warp contains all the souls of things and dont forget the C'tan have the Pariah


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## Lupercal101 (Jan 26, 2009)

i pretty sure i saw somewhere that the void dragon is the most powerful being in the entire matterium, so i rekon he could hold own against Khorne


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Don't confuse what you see on the game table with what the C'tan really are, the codex C'tan are just battle field manifestations of some of the Star God's energy. The C'tan are not vulnerable to the Warp in any way, they are in fact immune to it. 
It is the Necrons that are vulnerable to the Warp. C'tan are not Necron. And all the C'tan are pretty much the same in their true form.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

it is the most powerful being in the materium  but they have no effect on things that aren't really matter.

Gul Torgo has it right completely. 

the chaos gods are also gods where the C'Tan are like super beings, just lots of energy with a consciousness.

if they could fight, or maybe based on coolness then tzeenth would beat deciever, khorne and void dragon i rly cant decide, deathbringer over nurgle, dont think nurgles stuff would do anything to him, and slaanesh i suppose not really sure if slaanesh is all that powerful though to be honest. did pretty much put down the entire cast of eldar religion though. outsider is pretty cool though too.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

I wonder if there is any one plane of existence (Warp, Materium, Whatever) where these guys could face each other. To me its kinda like asking the skies to fight the seas: the skies whip the seas with wind, the seas fill the skies with clouds... and then they both run out of options.

But if they did manage to fight each other, then I think unxpekted22's scenario looks the best. I can't imagine how could Nurgle harm a Star God. Nightbringer doesn't look like someone who'd mind pus, he'd just cut you in half.


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## thomas2 (Nov 4, 2007)

While Nurgles decay couldn't touch the C'tans body it's possible Nurgle could decay their mind- the driving of the Outsider insane (wasn't it an Eldar god or something?) showing this might be possible.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Or maybe he'll just jump on the guy and crush him under his weight.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

I have read all the fluff on the Chaos Gods and Ctan and it just seems that the Ctan arnt on the same power level as the Chaos Gods.
Ctan are very powerful but I just dont see them stacking against the Chaos gods. Khorne has a Sword that can destroy reality and whole universes with one swing. Can the Ctan do that ?
In a all out War I am sure it would not be that Hard for the Chaos Gods to send Warpstorms against each Tomb world and destroy them using Daemons. 

In a all out War with all the forces of the Ctan against every Follower of Chaos plus Daemons I just cant see the Ctan winning. The best the C'tan can hope for is a Draw.


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Actually.. there IS a way to destroy the chaos gods.. and the necrons have it.
Simply kill every being in the universe that manifests shadows int he warp.. aka the entire emperium, the eldar, etc.
If there is nothing to feed the chaos gods with emotions, they will wither and die.
Also, tomb worlds are probably quite well insured against demon incursions, considering that the necrons have the capability to build devices that seal the warp away from the materium. ( Cadia gate is a good example of this I believe )


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

They still have the Traitor Legions and the Traitor Guard for those places. And I don't think the Necrons have a warp disrupter in every single tomb. Not to mention that sending Daemons is harder than telling lets say Lorgar that "Hey, theres a tomb world, we want it turned to dust". That'd be a sight.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

@ Einar: I don't think the Imperium would appreciate that. I now have a funny mental picture of chaos protecting humans for their warpshadows. Really though, there's enough chaos marines, traitor humans, and dark eldar to keep the gods alive for a long time. Unless the deceiver talks Khorne into lending him that universe-pulping sword, I don't think they could kill *everybody*.


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

You would have to kill everybody in the whole galaxy not just people in are universe which the C'tan would not be able to to do. According to Realms of Chaos and Liber Chaotica, Chaos is worshipped in other realitys and dimisions so no the necrons would not be able to kill the gods by killing all there worshippers as most they cant get to. Also again according to Realms of Chaos and liber Chaotica the Chaos gods are self suffient, they no long rely on worshippers or emotion. Yes it powers them but there power has grown so much they they are no longer dependent on the stuff.

Also in the Daemon codex there are stories of daemons wanting something on a planet so they just turn up. If a Chaos gods wants to they can open a warp rift most places.
Also I dont understand the Cadian Gate. According to fluff the necrons built the things keeping the warp at bay but when ? The necrons had gone to sleep before the Eye of Terror openned.
Necrons cant tell the furture so did they wake up build the pylons and then go back to sleep ?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Your missing the point though, C'tan don't need tomb worlds. Necrons do though, but they are not C'tan. The C'tan have complete control of the physical realm, therefore any daemons in the material realm are vulnerable to them.

C'tan and Warp energy (gods and daemons alike) are like oil and water, they just don't mix. If the Chaos gods could kill the C'tan then they would have tried harder to prevent them from sealing off the Warp, which they still might do considering that they don't count time in the same way as mortals, what's 100 million years or so to a C'tan? 

They'll be around long after all the other races have degenerated, mutated beyond sense, or warped to pulp, and then they will feed...


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## Talos (Aug 4, 2008)

There are only 4 Ctan, I dont think 4 c'tan on there own could do anything to the Chaos Gods and the legions of followers.
Also C'tan do need the Necrons. They are the ones that built there bodies without these bodies they would just be massive dust clouds like they where before.
I really dont think the C'tan are a threat to the Chaos Gods, there is no mention of them in the Chaos Codex or anything else. Remember Chaod dont care that much about the mortal realm they have seen the C'tan but dont judge them as a threat. Also if they seal off the warp at the eye of terror how does that stop the Chaos Gods ripping a hole in the mortal realm and sending there daemons though ?
Yes any daemon is vulnerable to them but C'tan are also vulnerable to daemons.

In the long run Chaos will win as it has always and always will exists. 
The best the C'tan can do is a draw.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Who said anything about the eye of terror, that is such a new formation, the C'tan were about to close off the warp 60 million years ago which is a very long time before the eye openned.
The C'tan are not dust clouds but energy beings, that eat stars, and are millions of years older than the Chaos gods. The Necrontyr needed to make metal bodies for the C'tan to animate in order to communicate with them, not to allow the C'tan to interact with the universe, and destroy life, which they can do very well on their own.
If the C'tan seal off the warp, which was their master plan for defeating the Old Ones, then no psychic energy can get there and the Warp will dry up.

Mention even a single threat to the Chaos gods that IS mentioned in the codex, it is pretty thin on the threats I think you'll find. Daemons don't seem to have ANY threats if you read theirs! Don't let lack of detail in 1 codex mislead you on the grand scale of galactic events.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

I think C'tan are cooler, but Chaos is probably stronger. Seeing as a fight between different groups of quasi-divine beings would kill just about everybody (including the helpers of both sides,) there isn't much point for a war between them. Besides, given a few more million years, the c'tan might kill another of themselves, same goes for chaos gods. I think that a serious fight would result in 4 dead on one side, 3 dead on the other. I don't know who'd be left over though.


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## lawrence96 (Sep 1, 2008)

THE EMPEROR SHALL DEFEAT ALL! 

sorry had to do it, but back on topic my money is on the chaos "gods" as since they can't exist in the corporeal universe the C'tan would have to be transported to the warp where they would have no power the chaos gods would just pimp them.


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Tzeentch would win. Against all the C'Tan AND the other Chaos Gods. Hard to beat something that not only sees at possible futures at once but also controls the power of the warp itself.

And he would have the Thousand Sons to help him out if needed. Nuff said :so_happy:


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Actually, I think your right. I mean, Tzeentch could scan all hypothetical futures for a ending in which everybody else is dead, and then keep it on that path. Nobody else would be able to stop that, Tzeetntch'd find at least one possible outcome for his own survival, which makes him essentially invincible.


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## Lucius The Typhus (Apr 5, 2009)

Chaos gods win every one of them, it not even a matter of opinion it's fact.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

if you have not looked this up, here you go:

"The major weakness of the C'tan is their inability to comprehend the warp. It is speculated that they find it impossible to survive in it and are particularly susceptible to warp spawned magics and psykers. They had a plan to block off the warp forever in an attempt to remove their single greatest threat1. It is also speculated that they have set up a series of 'pylons' on Cadia, possibly for this purpose. Whether these pylons have anything to do with the Eye of Terror is unknown, but it is unlikely as the Eye wasn't opened until the C'tan were in their stasis tombs. There is also a Necron object on Armageddon in the central region of the planet"

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C'tan


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

Here is something worth note, Eldar used to drive those blackstone fortress things, once called a Talisman of Vaul. Vaul was the Eldar blacksmith god. Those were made to kill C'tan. I might have red somewhere that their war god The Bloody Handed Khaine killed one himself, but I don't put too much faith in that. One thing is for sure, if Slaanesh could kill and absorb most of those gods' power he should be strong enough to take on almost any C'tan. Minus maybe the Void Dragon at full strength, even then though maybe.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Nightbringer is the strongest of the C'tan, why do people keep thinking it's the Void Dragon?


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

"the Void Dragon is mentioned as the most powerful of all the star-gods and that it had the ability to create almost invincible warriors."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Void_Dragon

however lexicanum also says this about the nightbringer

"Evidently none (C'tan) could match the slaughter of the Nightbringer, but some tried"

it also states that "the Nightbringer's most potent weapon was banished to the Immaterium where it could not reach it, preventing it from gathering the necessary energy to survive its long entombment" where as the void dragon i guess doesnt have something like this to worry about.


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

Styro-J said:


> I might have red somewhere that their war god The Bloody Handed Khaine killed one himself, but I don't put too much faith in that.


I'm open to the ideas that Khorne and Khaine are the same guy; and that he killed a C'tan. Not to far fetched from my point of view.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

The Nightbringer's 'weapon' that was refered to above was actually one of its space ships, all be it a seriously vast one, that could suck star energy and store it for the Nightbringer's hibernation. Since the Nightbringer is no longer in hibernation it does not need it anymore.
Codex says that the Nightbringer is the most ancient and inflicted the most misery on the galaxy; destroying entire star systems on a whim. And this guy is on the loose again and getting charged up... Bring on the new codex! Lets go all out Apoc with the C'tan and see what they are really made of


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

skarbrand x max strenth, critical hit against distracted khorne = ***** in armour.
Skarbrand vs battle manifestation of Night Bringer = puddle of _dead_ living metal.

Necrons number = legion
Demons numbers = directly proportionate to their gods power and in extension the things that the gods are of (I swear there's a better way to put this).

C'tan's ability to harm the chaos gods is minimal, while the chaos gods could probably extinguish stars, if they could be bothered, thus taking the c'tans best (though less tasty) food source. And if the c'tan did kill everyone in the galaxy, the sheer scale of bloodshed would be enough to have Khorne bust out like never before!


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## Inquisitor Varrius (Jul 3, 2008)

darklove said:


> Lets go all out Apoc with the C'tan and see what they are really made of


That was my biggest problem with Apoc. They needed C'Tan incarnate and stronger manifestations of the Chaos gods. Why were there no new super-daemons?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Asmodeun said:


> skarbrand x max strenth, critical hit against distracted khorne = ***** in armour.
> Skarbrand vs battle manifestation of Night Bringer = puddle of _dead_ living metal.
> 
> Necrons number = legion
> ...


C'tan could consume all life in the galaxcy which would kill all the Chaos gods by default as they need the psi energy to exist. Blood is not enough to keep Khorne alive, it is blood lust that drives him, so if the slaughter comes to an end then that would also be the end of him.


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## Gul Torgo (Mar 31, 2008)

Why would killing the galaxy be enough? Surely all the life in the universe feeds the Chaos Gods, not just those in our little corner.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

i think thats what they meant


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

Well I suppose it all really depends on your interpretation of the fluff. 
After all, the chaos gods exist _beyond time_, really, the could do whatever the hell they want!


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Fluffwise, i believe that the C'tan may not enter the warp, and like wise, the Chaos Gods cannot enter the material universe.

I also read somewhere that the Void dragon is actually the Machine god of the Imperium? As he is hiding on mars?

Meh, i dno, to close to call.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

its trapped on mars.


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Gul Torgo said:


> Why would killing the galaxy be enough? Surely all the life in the universe feeds the Chaos Gods, not just those in our little corner.


Fluff wise the warp is very much linked to just this single galaxy, and the Chaos Gods are the creation of the emotional energy of just that galaxy. If this was not the case then there would be nothing stopping warp travel to other galaxies, which never happens in 40k even among the ancient races like Necrons and Eldar.


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## Majin (Jun 21, 2009)

Wasn´t the dragon even slain and entombed by the emporer?


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