# Lizzie's V Dwarfs



## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Morning Chaps,

I played my first 2k game against a lizardman army with a Slann in and got my arse handed to me.

I fielded 
30 LB's with GW and FC
18 Warriors with GW and FC
1 Organ Gun
1 Grudge Thrower
1 Cannon
20 Ironbreakers FC
1 Master Engineer
1 Thane BSB
1 Runelord with AOD

and he fielded

3 lots of 12 skinks, two with blow pipes, one with Javelins

1 Stegadon with a great bow

10 Cold one Cav

15 Temple Guard with a Slann in (the Slann had a rule where he added a power dice to his casting attempt every go and something that he knew every spell in a lore, he picked lore of life)

2 lots of 15 Saurus.

1st turn went well as I shot the cannon at the Steg and killed all the crew, the following moster reaction was that it stood still at the far end of the table.

I then killed 4 skinks which were being used as a skirmish screen for the saurus with the anvil, thereby slowing down his army a tad. The Organ gun was out of range and the Grudge Thrower killed 1 temple guard.

He marched across the field towards me and in his magic phase rolled a fairly big number. I had MRO Balance and a rune of spelleating which I thought would be enough, but in order to maximise his dice he used a few dice often which meant that I was always keeping some dice in reserve in case he decided to try and pull of dwellers. Throne of Vines is a pain in the arse and I wish I had got rid of it quicker with the spelleater as the buffs to successful spells are great.

Basically it went downhill from there, in turn 2 the anvil miscast and missed a turn, and everything else either missed or killed nothing. Eventually we got to the fight and he sniped off all my warmachines with his skinks as my IB’s were engaged with Saurus and the LB’s were waiting for the inevitable charge. The anvil then blew up leaving me defenceless for magic as all my dice and runes were gone.
Couple of points I decided from this game.

1.The AOD is useless in a 2k game, you’re better off with a Runelord as he has better survivability, which you need if you’re going to load up on anti-magic.

2. Either I need to go on the offensive with more warriors and therefore limit my shooting or use the points saved from the anvil to get in my usual core shooters.

3. LB hordes with Oathstones should get into combat ASAP as otherwise they get sniped by skinks.

4. Always play the refused flank so that the skinks can’t get in amongst your war machines.

5. Take out vine of thrones early on, dwellers is a IF spell really and my opponent would rather go for buffs.

Would love your thoughts on these.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Be glad he wasn't bringing Salamanders- They love dwarves (or is it dwarfs?). Especialy ones that have deployed oathstones.

On your points vs lizards (points 4&5), I'd tend to agree. Also, skinks hate organ guns, since they autohit (unless that guy I was playing was wrong).

The thing about dwellers in Lizards vs dwarves is, if you really bring the magic protection (as one or two guys I know do) Then they're pretty much going to have to ignore the buffs and hope for IF dwellers. If anything, I'd be blocking throne of vines, purely to maintain the threat of IF- once he uses up his cupped hands, he's going to think twice about IFing. And since your going to be blocking a lot of spells, his buffs probably won't work, and then his saurus are just targets for guns (especially when only 15 strong).

Basically, solid magic defence (which dwarves can most certainly bring) can really screw up a Lizardmen army. So if you feel like tailoring...I'm not sure what the items are, but there are easy ways for dwarves to block Lizardmen- I've played against it a lot.


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## sir_m1ke (Dec 7, 2008)

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> I fielded
> 30 LB's with GW and FC
> 18 Warriors with GW and FC
> 1 Organ Gun
> ...


First thoughts on the list- Warrior unit is far, far too small, you should be looking 30 minimum in my experience. master engineer is doing nothing for the army. Ironbreakers should be Hammerers, as the stubborn USR will hold your line long after the ironbreakers have broken. Anvil has no purpose in this list

things you need- another grudge thrower, and runes on all the warmachines- penetration and accuracy on GTs and forging on cannon.

Hammerers instead of ironbreakers- and 25 minimum size

MRoGrungi on the hammerer banner- 5+ ward against all those poisoned shots, steg bow shots and magic missles pays for itself in the course of a battle

more warriors in that unit



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> 3 lots of 12 skinks, two with blow pipes, one with Javelins
> 
> 1 Stegadon with a great bow
> 
> ...




His Stegadon adds nothing to his list, and the temple guard unit is much, much too small. Saurus units are much too small- 24 minimum size

Doesnt help you much i know but just though i would say :biggrin:



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> He marched across the field towards me and in his magic phase rolled a fairly big number. I had MRO Balance and a rune of spelleating which I thought would be enough, but in order to maximise his dice he used a few dice often which meant that I was always keeping some dice in reserve in case he decided to try and pull of dwellers. Throne of Vines is a pain in the arse and I wish I had got rid of it quicker with the spelleater as the buffs to successful spells are great.




Your dispel priority is WAY WAY off- i gave a comprehensive tactica in the army list thread you commented on about the important spells to block. saving dice for dwellers is the last thing you want to do- dwellers is the second least-threatening spell to you after Awakening. Your priority should be throne, then flesh to stone, then regenerate. You save your dice for those, nothing else

I find the rune of spelleating inferior to 2 dispel runes but that is just my personal opinion



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> 1.The AOD is useless in a 2k game, you’re better off with a Runelord as he has better survivability, which you need if you’re going to load up on anti-magic.




I find the AoD useless anyway but it has it's place in an offensive dwarf army, which yours is not (and rightly so, i play dwarves defensively myself) and the points are much better spent elsewhere (see above for my suggestions)



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> 2. Either I need to go on the offensive with more warriors and therefore limit my shooting or use the points saved from the anvil to get in my usual core shooters.




As above, i dont think dwarves play offensively- we blast from range, and hold a solid and near-impenetrable line that can deal out damage as well as take it

If this was an all comers list i would suggest quarrellers, but they dont really have a gd target against lizardmen- skinks are too hard to hit and saurus can shrug them off. If you are setting you list up to take on the lizzies i would avoid shooting troops



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> 3. LB hordes with Oathstones should get into combat ASAP as otherwise they get sniped by skinks.




My big issue with the oathstone is that it holds an essential unit in place for the battle. A centre-line unit like hammerers, fine. But your LBs need to be able to plug gaps in the line or force your opponent to charge, which cant be achieved if you are stuck in place



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> 4. Always play the refused flank so that the skinks can’t get in amongst your war machines.




Standard dwarf tactic, works well but might need a hill to deploy on



Gromrir Silverblade said:


> 5. Take out vine of thrones early on, dwellers is a IF spell really and my opponent would rather go for buffs.
> 
> Would love your thoughts on these.




I talked about this earlier, at least you have experience now so you can make a better decision next time.

Remember, dwellers will only take out most of your models 33% of the time- your grudge throwers can do more damage than that against his models


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

sir_m1ke said:


> First thoughts on the list- Warrior unit is far, far too small, you should be looking 30 minimum in my experience. master engineer is doing nothing for the army. Ironbreakers should be Hammerers, as the stubborn USR will hold your line long after the ironbreakers have broken. Anvil has no purpose in this list
> 
> I totally agree on the Warrior front, unfortunately I only have 48 models at the mo ;-)
> 
> ...


Many thanks for your replies, given me loads to think about. It was a bit of an eye opener.


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## sir_m1ke (Dec 7, 2008)

On the hammerers- yeh, they die, but they hit back much harder than the ironbreakers do. And the main reason for bringing them is Stubborn, they will hold the line til the last dwarf which will buy your artillery valuable time

On the spellbreaking runes- i always would take an extra guaranteed dispel over a 50% chance of removing a spell. I like to have as little opportunity for bad dice rolls affecting game play as possible

On the thunderers- im not sold on thunderes purely because of the lack of GW options, which makes them pretty poor in combat. And you need as many units holding the enemy back from your artillery as possible

On the oathstone/movement- you should be angling your units away from your artillery, so that if the worst happens and he breaks through the unit you have bought youself a turn of shooting as he reforms. I just dont like the idea of being stuck in the one spot for the rest of the battle!!


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Multiple dispels is one of the strengths of the current dwarf list. You should have a Dwarf Combat lord, 2x rune priests, 1x thane BSB, 30 LBs, 30 Xbows w/shield, maybe 2hw, Cannon w/flaming, organ gun, 20 Ironbreakers. Small units fail in this edition.


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