# Constantin Valdor smokes any human in single combat



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Constantin Valdor would smoke any human in the imperium in 1 on 1 combat.. and he would only lose to the primarchs and the emperor.

(i think he could give the primarchs a run for there money, and would be somewhat competitive, but he would eventually lose... the emperor would straight up manhandle him though)

but besides the primarchs and the emperor.. i really see no HUMAN in the imperium that could defeat him in a fight...


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Okay... ?

I mean what is the point of this post? I see no question, no topic for debate. You're just stating your opinion, one which happens to be pretty readily apparent. 

That being said, any Primarch puts Valdor down no problem.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> Okay... ?
> 
> I mean what is the point of this post? I see no question, no topic for debate. You're just stating your opinion, one which happens to be pretty readily apparent.
> 
> That being said, any Primarch puts Valdor down no problem.


what im trying to say is, and my question would be

*do you see any human (non-primarch or emperor) that could beat valdor in combat?*


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## Eetion (Mar 19, 2008)

How would a Grandmaster of the Officio Assassinorum fare?

Not enough info to make too close a judgement.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

Well, the various chapter masters could likely give him trouble, especially the Grey Knight GMs.


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## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

Nave Senrag said:


> Well, the various chapter masters could likely give him trouble, especially the Grey Knight GMs.


they would give him trouble, but i see no chapter GM that could beat Valdor....


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Nor do I.

Assuming Valdor is still alive in 40K, I doubt even Calgar would pose a challenge to him.

He's pretty much the grandmaster of bad-ass.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Get a human sufficiently pumped up on Daemonic powers and you'd beat'em.

Look at the corrupted officer in "False Gods". Fatally wounded Horus.


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

but a human on daemonic steroids isnt really human anymore.

and guardsman marbo. he's a freaking ninja, literally. people forget about that guy.

i'm just playing devils advocate though


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Machiavellismx said:


> but a human on daemonic steroids isnt really human anymore.
> 
> and guardsman marbo. he's a freaking ninja, literally. people forget about that guy.
> 
> i'm just playing devils advocate though


What is human?

A person with bionics? A person suped up on drugs? A person with enhanced muscular structure?

Since when did the OP ask for an unmodified human? He specified nothing beyond "human".


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Given that it took daemonically infused Astartes to defeat custodians in _The First Heretic_, i imagine no 'human' could ever defeat Valdor (if he's even still alive).


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

An unmodified human, not a chance. But, I'm willing to bet that there might be a couple of augmented humans (some inquisitors for example) who could give him a run for his money. I think it was still the inquisitor in the one Soul Drinkers novel that remarked that there are inquisitors out there who are far more dangerous than astartes. 

Also, Toros Revoke from the second Ravenor novel seemed pretty unreasonable in terms of combat (he fights a freakin' daemon carrying a pair of swords with his bare hands), but we are never given any indication where his abilities come from.

Speaking of Revoke, any powerful enough psyker could probably simple mind pulp Valdor, or perhaps use their mental cabilities to augment their physical power.


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## Dicrel Seijin (Apr 2, 2011)

Emperorguard500 said:


> *do you see any human (non-primarch or emperor) that could beat valdor in combat?*


So let me get this straight, you are wondering if any human could beat Valdor (a genetically-enhanced superhuman in MEq power armor and weaponry) in combat? I'd say you've answered your own question, but I would ask, what does the human get to level the playing field?


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

hailene said:


> What is human?
> 
> A person with bionics? A person suped up on drugs? A person with enhanced muscular structure?
> 
> Since when did the OP ask for an unmodified human? He specified nothing beyond "human".


Fair enough, but bionics etc are still humanoid. A person with daemonic strength, in my opinion, crosses over from human to daemonic. Also, you can 'measure' bionics and drugs to an extend. Daemonic powers and stuff are impossible to measure.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

sigismund or Lucius have a fair chance


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## oiad (Feb 10, 2011)

Five plus topics in a go EmperorGuard500? Guess the Forum's not busy enough for you... 

...I'm a bit confused whether you just mean humans or does that include marines and the like too? Fair enough if it's the former. He's a top guy and must be a very skilled warrior to be in his position but we haven't really seen much of Constantin in action to suggest he'd 'smoke' anyone. Off the top of my head, there's an easy dispatching of an enhanced pirate in _Nemesis_, which he was expected to win. Then there's a fight with Phosis T'Kar in _A Thousand Sons_. Constantin does slay him, though T'Kar grew a conscience when he realised the monster/traitor he had become. Without the guilt (or plot armour for the cynical) it's likely that T'Kar could have killed him. That's about it. So it seems overly presumptuous to think he's going to easily defeat chapter masters with a impressive records like Calgar, Dante or Draigo. I'm inclined to say at most it's a close match when he's up against such legends, with all bets off.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Valdor to my knowledge has little in the way of psychic defenses. 

A decent psyker could probably take him out.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Machiavellismx said:


> Fair enough, but bionics etc are still humanoid. A person with daemonic strength, in my opinion, crosses over from human to daemonic. Also, you can 'measure' bionics and drugs to an extend. Daemonic powers and stuff are impossible to measure.


I would argue that the officer in "False Gods" was most definitely human still.

Daemons are pure warp entities. When someone becomes a Daemon Prince they cease to posses a physical body. The officer kept his, though.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

When Valdor was alive the Grandmaster was Malcador. So I think at that point the Grandmaster could defeat Valdor. Now? I'd say Valdor is literally the closest to primarch level strength in the absence of the primarchs level of strength in the Imperium. As said IF he's still alive I don't see anyone taking him. I mean like anyone,not just humans. I think Abbaddon would be a great matchup but with all his chaos hookups he might be too much for him.


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

hailene said:


> I would argue that the officer in "False Gods" was most definitely human still.
> 
> Daemons are pure warp entities. When someone becomes a Daemon Prince they cease to posses a physical body. The officer kept his, though.


They don't so much cease to have a physical body as an amalgamation of the two, which is why they can survive away from the warp, yet they're still described as being hard to focus on or see detail clearly due to their relation to the warp. Another example is on 63-19, the Whisperhead mountains. One of Loken's squad, Jubal, is taken by a warp entity called Samus and becomes twisted and his flesh swells and merges with his armour.

I'd argue that the officer wasn't human though. Horus thinks how he moves far too fast for his physical frame, and he's all warped up by Nurgle. That's defiantly not humanoid, I'd argue he'd crossed the barrier to daemonic. I'd support this by saying how, when he's beat, he 'comes back' to himself and they dies. His body has been so warped and twisted that without that daemonic essence, he simply can't survive.

There's no clear cut answer however, and your point is equally as valid as mine. It's impossible to measure daemonic possession/warpness


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Machiavellismx said:


> They don't so much cease to have a physical body as an amalgamation of the two, which is why they can survive away from the warp, yet they're still described as being hard to focus on or see detail clearly due to their relation to the warp. Another example is on 63-19, the Whisperhead mountains. One of Loken's squad, Jubal, is taken by a warp entity called Samus and becomes twisted and his flesh swells and merges with his armour.
> 
> I'd argue that the officer wasn't human though. Horus thinks how he moves far too fast for his physical frame, and he's all warped up by Nurgle. That's defiantly not humanoid, I'd argue he'd crossed the barrier to daemonic. I'd support this by saying how, when he's beat, he 'comes back' to himself and they dies. His body has been so warped and twisted that without that daemonic essence, he simply can't survive.
> 
> There's no clear cut answer however, and your point is equally as valid as mine. It's impossible to measure daemonic possession/warpness


Negative. From Codex Daemons:

"Daemons have no physical presence within the Warp...In the real universe a Daemon's form is no more physical than it is in the Warp, though it may _appear_ to be made of normal matter."

Italics mine. It goes further and says that they are "beings of Chaos, of magic given shape and depth...Slaying a Daemon's _physical projection_ does not kill a Daemon, only its presence in reality; its true Warp power remains unharmed."

A Daemon is very much different from a human being with Daemonic gifts.

Just like how a CSM may receive various blessings from the Chaos gods, but yet still remain mortal.

And when the Chaos gods abandon Temba (I finally looked up his name) I'd like to think that the mortal wounds that Horus inflicted upon him during the fight (impaling him through his chest, having his innards pour out of him) probably killed him.

Considering after Temba died, he had a physical body that Horus wept next to, that'd argue that Temba was no daemon.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Draigo is the only figure (sans Primarchs/Emperor) that I could flippantly say can break Constantin. He beats deamons into a pulp by the _cityload_ and has more plot armor than the entire Ultramarines 2nd company combined.

Barring Kaldor Sue; on the loyalist side Marneus, Logan and maaaaaybe Shrike could stand toe-to-toe with Constantin. Marneus because of his 1+ plot armor save, Logan because of his sheer awesome, and Shrike if it's not a stand-up fight. All the badassery in the galaxy won't save you from a Lightning Claw to the face while you sleep.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

hailene said:


> Look at the corrupted officer in "False Gods". Fatally wounded Horus.


a Chaos-boosted Luther beat Jonson

1) a Grey Knight grandmaster/supreme grandmaster could probably beat Valdor 

in the Ultramarines series, GK are shown to outclass "ordinary" Astartes considerably 

2) a powerful librarian/sorcerer could probably handle Valdor with ease


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## Machiavellismx (Sep 11, 2011)

hailene said:


> Negative. From Codex Daemons:
> 
> "Daemons have no physical presence within the Warp...In the real universe a Daemon's form is no more physical than it is in the Warp, though it may _appear_ to be made of normal matter."
> 
> ...


That is 'pure' daemons. Temba (cheers for the name) and other such daemonic gifted individuals are an amalgamation of the two. And while a Daemon is different to a human with daemonic gifts, it depends on the amount: For example - A Chaos Spawn is often explained to be a CSM whose body could not contain all the gifts the Dark God's had given him. Would you argue that a Chaos Spawn was human? 

To elaborate; the more Daemonic Gifts a person recieves the less human they are each and every time. Characters such as Temba are, in my opinion and from the fluff I've read, no longer human. They've crossed that threshold from human to daemonic / possessed. Could you argue a possessed person is human? In my view they aren't so long as the possession is occurring, as they have external power. In other words, they're not themselves, its the daemon that is making them stronger. People have been possessed and 'thrown out' the Daemon from sheer mental willpower, and they are human. But while they are under possession, they are most certainly not. They may have a human body, but its a meat puppet, and nothing more. Not human.


The Oxford Dictionary definition of a Human:
_noun
a human being._

Simply, 'a human being'. Daemon's, Astartes, and Daemonicly Gifted people, are not humans. Bionics / Tech-Priests are a grey area. Humanoid yes, Human no. The Eldar are Humanoid, but no-one could argue they are humans.

In regards to Temba's death - Horus seriously injured him, but it is only when he comes to his senses, when he awakens, that he dies. So long as Chaos is sustaining him, even with those grievous injuries, he remains alive. Once he injured Horus, the Gods had no need of him, and they abandoned him. It is only then he succumbs to his wounds - _only after_ the power of Chaos, the Daemonic powers that make him fast and strong, leave him.

He may have a body, but it's warped and mutated, not human. Chaos Spawns have physical bodies to.


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## OIIIIIIO (Dec 16, 2009)

The Game Genie known as Mephiston could probably take him down.


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

as I've said before, a powerful librarian/sorcerer (Tigurius, Mephiston, Ezekiel, Stormcaller, Ahriman, etc.) would probably be too much for Valdor

in close combat, Kharn, Dante, Grimnar (and the top Heresy-era single-combat champions mentioned in _Savage Weapons_) could probably give him a run for his money, Chaos-buffed Kharn would have especially good odds in my opinion

*some time ago, I made a thread asking for the source in which Valdor beats a primarch in sparring...NO ONE COULD PROVIDE A SOURCE*


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

A possessed person is considerably different from one given gifts. Their being is suppressed when they become possessed.

And about his death, thanks for (ultimately) agreeing with what I wrote. It wasn't the fact that the Chaos gods withdrew their favor that killed him, it was the fact that the Chaos gods withdrew their favor and his wounds, which the Chaos gods were able to negate, killed him.

As you said, the important idea to keep in mind is degree. A possessed marine is no longer human because his personality is gone. A chaos spawn is no longer human because it has lost both its mind and its human form.

Was Temba either? He was himself, if slightly clouded by the extent of his daemonic power, and he definitely retained his human form, albeit a bit bloated.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Arguably the fight was with the sword though, Tenba merely being the puppet for the power within the sword.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Angel of Blood said:


> Arguably the fight was with the sword though, Tenba merely being the puppet for the power within the sword.


If it was the weapon alone, then a normal human armed with such a weapon would probably be able to take out Valdor.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Two things people need to remember about the Horus-Temba duel:

Firstly, Temba was no pushover. Before Horus arrived Temba had already easily killed a company captain.

Secondly, Temba barely nicked him. It really was the sword that did all the work.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

I think it was in _A Thousand Sons_ that Phosis T'Kar came very close to killing off Valdor. He would have done as well if had not realised that he was towering over the greatest servant of the Big E and allowed himself to be executed.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

T'kar was then though argueably mutated beyond recognition, almsot like Argal Tal and the Gal Vorbak, only more emphasis on the psyker side of it.


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## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Fair point. There was no denying he was a complete badass during that segment.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Stephen_Newman said:


> I think it was in _A Thousand Sons_ that Phosis T'Kar came very close to killing off Valdor. He would have done as well if had not realised that he was towering over the greatest servant of the Big E and allowed himself to be executed.


I thought Phosis was killing his way to Valdor, got to him, pretty much said "Imma own yo ass." and then realized he had turned into warp spawn and then let Valdor kill him?


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## DanCoolins (Sep 10, 2011)

hailene said:


> I thought Phosis was killing his way to Valdor, got to him, pretty much said "Imma own yo ass." and then realized he had turned into warp spawn and then let Valdor kill him?


thats what i thought, 
although if Valdor is still alive in the 41st millenium that is a few thousand more years experience. and as we know from various fluff sources terra isnt always a quiet place to be.


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