# Out Of Ideas...Nids Suck



## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey Guys I'm at wits end. I was undefeated with my 4th Edition Nids codex then when 5th came out I was excited! Now, I understand there is a leaning curve when a new codex comes out, but, I have been losing non-stop I'm 0/6 and I dont just loose....I get Obliterated.
(the opponents I lost too are below)

1. Nids vs Eldar
2. Nids vs Orks
3. NIds vs Dark Eldar
4. Nids vs Eldar
5. Nids vs Eldar
6. Nids vs Tau

I have made several different list and have learned the following....
NEVER!!!!!! I MEAN NEVER use Carnifexes....they are way overpriced and all they are, are moving targets
Don't Take a swarm lord..he s good but dies way to fast 
Never Use Spore Transports on Carnifexes, or PyroVores, 
Trygon/Mawlock too many points for what they do (more Walking Targets)
Raveners= completely overpriced for nothing

I'm not trying to rant or rave BUT losing 6 TIMES in a row Badly, is ridicules, The Nids have gone From Deep Strategy and power to massive LUCK roll of the dice. And the NIds are SUPER EXPENSIVE!!!!!! 280pts for a HQ unit? that has no Invul Save, T6, and a +3sv? Come ON!!! The Wraith Lord is half that cost so are half the HQ units in every Army!!!!! Are there any list out there that actually win? or at least put up a good fight?


(PS If you hate Rants and Raves just move on the don't respond)


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

Trygons are worth their points. They smash everything they touch.

The Doom of Malan'tai in a drop pod will take out at least double his points worth in a single turn.

90% of the codex is indeed overpriced, however there are some things that are worth their points.

It doesnt quite feel the same as the last codex. In fact, the 4th ed and 5th ed Tyranids play like two completely different armies.

We can no longer run the 8 MC's with 2x TL Dev in 1500 points anymore, which makes things a bit more of a challenge. Its made us think about new tactics instead.

Some people have found the triple Trygon armies to be effective, some people are finding the 5 Tervigon armies to be effective, some people are finding the Nids From Above armies to be effective.
Its just a matter of trial and error, and eventually they will become competitive again. The competitive perfect nidzilla army didnt just appear overnight. It took a couple of months of people play-testing and tweaking before they worked it out.

The new codex has ideas that jump out at us as being effective, just like all codecies do, but its just the tweaking that takes time.

On the bright side, at least we didnt get the anal penetration that Blood Angels got in 4th ed.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Every Time I field a trygon 3 things happen.
1. If not Deeped strike in they Die in turn 1 THANKS TO THEN GETTING NO COVERSAVES without 50% of the model blocked

2. Deep Strike in if Lucky He comes in round 2....
Nids vs Orks Deep Strike the Trygon in Attacked a grp of 30 boys from range, killed 5, next turn I was shot at and charged buy the boyz and Destroyed....by effing boys

3. Deep Strike/ or normal deployment 
Nids Vs Eldar Killed in round one by Ranger Fire
Nids vs Tau killed in round 2 (deep Striked in) AP2 S8 weapons, and Mech suit power weapons
Nids vs Dark Eldar Death by POwer Weapons in round 2
Nids vs Eldar Charge by a grp of Dire avengers w/ a Phoenix lord.........died killing 4 dier avengers with me..YAY

The fact that he cant assault after deep strike is pure idiocy! "ILL JUST STAND HERE AND LET EVERYTHING SHOOT ME" IM USEFUL!!!!

in every game he came in killed a few Troops and was gun downs by 1 or 2 units trust me he's too many points and I feel he's a useless unit.


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## KingOfCheese (Jan 4, 2010)

You are obviously not taking advantage of his scariness.

If he comes in and soaks up all of the enemies firepower for a whole turn, if your playing 1750 points, that leaves 1500 points of your stuff to run across the board without getting shot.
Even if the Trygon dies to one round of shooting, he will be making up for his points by giving you a "free turn" of movement. Take advantage of this.

If your worried about cover saves, then try running the Tyranids version of the Kustom Force Field.
I personally havent tried it out yet, i can see him being less effective as he can be targetted by shooting, but it might help you out.

The other option is to run 3 Trygons. If the opponent kills one in a turn, then that leaves the other 2 to start destroying.

Playing Nids isnt just a matter of taking 8 MC's and stomping your way across the board anymore. You need to think of things tactfully.


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## Taggerung (Jun 5, 2008)

This is what I took in my last game...

Tyranid prime, LW-BS

3 x Zoanthropes, in a spore (THIS IS AMAZING BTW)
3 x Hive Guard (These are just amazing at blowing apart transports for my gaunts/stealers to get at the goodies inside)

30 x Hormagaunts
20 x Genestealers (with Brood Lord)
10 x Genestealers (with Brood Lord)
10 x Genestealers (with Brood Lord)
5 x Warriors, LW-BS
10 x Termagaunts

3 x Sky Slashers w/ Spine fists (This was just for fun, didn't do much except kill 3 marines)

3 x Biovore
1 x Mawloc


I DESTROYED both opponents I played, one was orks the other blood angels.

The army just marches along, leaving the biovores and termagaunts to hang back and lurk in cover, and camp my objectives. The hive guard walk up and blow the hell out of any transport in their way. The zoanthropes podded in and blew a LRC apart, then a Baal Pred, and what not. I basically just marched forward, making them both have real troubles with target priority. I basically just presented too many tough targets to deal with, and they couldn't focus on one thing long enough to completely destroy it. 

Nidzilla is dead, and people need to embrace the swarm. I mean 30 gaunts is only 20 more points than a Carnifex...why would you not bring a swarm?

Also, having 40 genestealers on the field makes people really afraid...especially when they outflank and infiltrate...man turn 1 assaults are amazing


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## Yousei (Nov 4, 2009)

First thing with the new dex i reckon, is to not get lured in by the apparantly shiny heavy support choices and monstrous HQ.

the codex plays very differently to 4th, especially the more gimmicky 4th lists. Work on a balanced list, and think how the units will work together to make something small awesome (catalyst+preferred enemy+toxin horms = win vs infantry)

Biovores are great now, dont overlook them. 

Your elite slots will generally be full all of the time, as will at least 5 of your troop choices, (i run with ~15 tox/ag horm, 15 term, 15 term, 2 tervigon (catalyst/toxin), and either warriors (shooty) or genestealers in my troops for instance)

I've not yet lost a game with them, though did scrape a draw vs a heavily mech IG that i really wasnt ready for.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Whats the list you run?


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

As someone said already.. don't think of the old way Nids worked, forget the old codex, this is a new codex, so you will have to work on new tactics and combinations that work.

Yes, they did a lot to kill the old nidzilla list, so don't mope about that, work on new things.

I'm no nid specialist, but I've read the codex. The way I see it, the swarm tactic is much more viable now, provided you can keep the synapse up.

Genestealers have become cheaper, and scarier. Outflanking, fleet even with a broodlord nasty buggers.

Tervigons are very scary if fielded in volume.

Gargoyles are just almost insane. 1 point over a guardsman for a jump trooper with similar stats that be fielded in a group of 30? That is seriously scary.

Warriors with their 3 wounds each means that people will need to field S8 weapons to do serious harm to them.

Venomtropes can give you that cover save you need where you need it for your swarms to advance under.

I've always considered biovores a much overlooked choice in the nid arsenal, now they are really coming into their own. ( though I'm very happy, no more acid spores, they were the perfect SoB killer )

Zoantropes in a pod as already said are a brilliant anti-tank measure.

I'm still racking my brain on what I can field to counter all the new nid choices and what is best to include in my army to be able to deal with the bugs when I face them.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

I agree with Einar. 

Except Tervigons are good when NOT fielded in volume


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## Inquisitor Einar (Mar 6, 2009)

Hehehe.. I never said they weren't.. I said, they were VERY SCARY when fielded in volume.. 

I am REALLy considering very hard to assemble and paint up another squad of retributors for my sisters, with multi-meltas.
4 multi meltas and 6 girls to suck up wounds should do some serious hurt on icky MCs advancing on my lines. ( as well as eat up warriors nicely )


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Inquisitor Einar said:


> Hehehe.. I never said they weren't.. I said, they were VERY SCARY when fielded in volume..


Touche'


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

Toxic Hormaguants are giving me nightmares just now. Outflanking thanks to a Hive Tyrant with Hive Commander, they become a massive problem unit for me. 

Together with lots of T6 W6 Monstrous Creatures 'Nids are a good list now. You just have to play to their strengths. If you get your Trygon cut down by being charged by 25 Boys then you're doing it wrong. If any unit gets charged by 25 boys it's got a good chance of going down hard. 

Aramoro


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

4th Ed. nids I was competative but I rarely one. I wasn't a threat unless I got lucky.

5th Ed. I freak my friends out with squads of GS waiting behind walls and pods of Zoans. Use nids as a control unit. direct yoru enemies to go hunting after this "dangerous" squad of hormagaunts, with shooty Warriers waiting in a hiding spot.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

I have run several differet list and once I learned about how bad it is to take MC I stopped taking them. The problem is this....the eldar.....the Orc and tau battle I got extremly unlucky in rolls I wanna know how I'm suppose to deal with this...
x10 ranger snipers
x3war walkers w/s6assault 4 weapons 8 shots each
x10 jetbikes with twin linked s6 weapons
x3wraith lords s10ap2
x3 armored jet bikes s6 assault 6
x1 phoenoix lord



I tried a swarm list with this guy, who took the bear minium of dire avengers

first round my swarmlord was shot to death I lost two squads of 20 gaunts 

And my trevigon was killed, in turn killing 15 gaunts in my 20 gaunt squad 

That was turn 1 and I didn't even move yet


However I really like the ideas of using x6 hive guard that could help me a ton!!!! Thanks for everyone info btw!!!


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## Styro-J (Jan 20, 2009)

To be fair, no Eldar Jetbikes have twin-linked S 6 weapons. A couple of them can take a S 6 weapon, but the only way it would get a re roll is with a Farseer casting Guide on them.

Warlocks on Jetbikes could be a pain with their flamers, but if you can get in range Shadows of the Warp could still hurt them. 

Similarly, Wraithlords cannot take S 10 AP 2 weapons. They can take two S 8 weapons, one AP 2 and one AP 3 though. They are only S 10 in CC.

By armored Jetbikes I assume you mean Vypers with 2 Shuriken Cannons. That is a pricey unit, even if it does get 18 shots a turn. I'd just be glad he didn't take more War Walkers instead. 

By any chance was the Phoenix Lord Maugan Ra? (the skull wearing guy)


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

Keep in mind that a lot of these big guys that you aren't a fan of taking come with Shadow of the Warp, which can be particularly effective against Eldar, which you seem to battle a lot.

I agree that Fexes are a unit of the past, and Swarmlords aren't for everyone. But other MCs like cheaper Tyrants, Tervigons and Trygons are definitely competitive. I think four to six MCs in a 5th edition list is still a good way to go. But thats what I like to play with, and I have learned to use them in the best ways possible. I'm also a fan of the new cheaper troops. So I compliment the big guys with hordes of cheap little guys.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Actually he used a the far seerer he was giving units the abilty to re roll misses and re roll to wound on some units it wasn't the phenoix lord my mistake. As for the shadow of the warp it's been pretty unless in every game I have to be with in 12 inches of the unit for it to even work and his far seeer was making me roll pysic test on 3D6 anything over 10 and I take a wound and that had infinite range. It's how my other terivgon in the army lost a wound each turn. How do I get passed these guys?


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

I recon the new nid dex is stronger then the old one.. but personally Ive been finding it more boring.

For the bad- I dopnt think too much of trygons (great but a little blunt for my liking- needs lots of MCs/trygons or none, 1 trygon with no MC support will just get picked out and killed easily). Tervigons are great for winning, but very dull, fex are overpriced and harpys can be IDd by S10. 

For the good- the Doom is totally immense, hive guard rock (finally an anti-transport option for nids that works) and stealers are beond awesome- still very fragile, but cheap and masssively effective (I give mine toxin for a 4+ with reroll to wound against anything T4 and under). Hormogaunts and gargoyles are great again, and my raveners are being total stars (keep finding vehicles that have moved 6" or less- 4+ with 1s rerolled and rending means they trounce most things). Warriors and rippers are also pretty nice, if only I could fit them into my limited troop choices :cray:



If you are playing eldar just dont use your lesser psychic powers whiel teh farseer's alive- 50% chance of taking a wound from perils (way overpowered BTW) is just not worth the benefits of catalyst- I always found that eldar simply didnt have enough fire/combat power to hurt my 4th ed armies... and I dont see how thats changed in 5th- you can run just as many T6 wounds and can get huge hoards of gaunts to go with. You might struggle in KP games, but anything else should be yours.
- on a side note, biovores love eldar: if they ever get out of their transports they'll get hit by lots of S4 AP4 mines... I dont tailor lists any more, but since I always take the vores they're a nice bonus against eldar/tau when I play them.


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## Pedro (Jan 29, 2010)

I have played versus nids the most from my battles in 5th and I can tell you what is bugging me the most - I play marines, who are still the most played army (although your area evidently varies a little  )

The worst thing from you codex, apart from the Swarmlord monster, is the Zoanthrope. With its S10, AP1 Lance attack, Land Raiders go poof. You can also play three and drop pod them. That is 220 points. They have a nice 3+ invul, but also T4 and no EW, so can die quickly if the dice hate you, but you still have the almost sure option of killing the Raider.
To do this, they need to pass a Psychic test, roll 3+ to hit and not roll 1 on penetration, but with 2 or 3 of them, it rarely happens.

The second worst thing is the Hive Guard. T6, good attacks, no cover saves, no need for LOS...very hard to kill and able to pop smaller vehicles at will...

Doom looks very funny, especially podded.

Tyrant is much weaker now, he can't lead tha ssault as concentrated firepower kills him and you lose synapse=very bad.

Warrior aplha is also very unfriendly, high ini, many attacks, power weapon, gives marines fits...easily kills most of the squad before they get to kill him back 

Warriors in genmeral are dangerous, but have T4 and save4+, so they can be MLed to death.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Pedro said:


> Warrior aplha is also very unfriendly, high ini, many attacks, power weapon, gives marines fits...easily kills most of the squad before they get to kill him back
> 
> Warriors in genmeral are dangerous, but have T4 and save4+, so they can be MLed to death.


and there you have my main use for the alpha- the damage it deals is nice, but the fact it can take S8 hits without worry is better... the first S8 hit from each unit to shoot at my warriors always goes to the alpha. If a tervigon is close then its likely I will have catalyst on the warrior unit since it makes the alpha pretty resilient to the S8 and means any non S8+ shooting at the warriors is practically a waste of time.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

Styro-J said:


> Warlocks on Jetbikes could be a pain with their flamers, but if you can get in range Shadows of the Warp could still hurt them.


No, it won't? They never take a Psychic test, so Shadow does nothing.

Frankly, you're playing against a slow Eldar army. Tarpit his good units (Wraithlords) and forcus fire on his easy-to-kill units (war walkers, snipers, Jetbikes).

And if you suffered that much in turn 1, you were badly deployed. No argument about it. Either that or the board had no terrain. The rulebook recommends 50% terrain and 50% open table, and I have yet to see a Nid player who didn't go for that or more.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

new nids should smash through wraithlords with no issues- a bit of toxin spread around and he'll fall laughably easily. A spawned unit of gaunts from a toxin tervagon should do a couple of wounds onto a wraithlord... and they are free. Send in a decent unit of stealers/hormogaunts and it'll be toast (11 toxin hormogaunts, or 6 toxin stealers should kill a wraithlord in 1 turn).

Hive guard, zoanthropes, harpies will easily kill war walkers (even brainleech worm devourers should shread it). Jetbikes and seer councils are easily taken care of with lots of little stuff if they come close enough to do you any damage (dont spread out into easily nibbled units- they can come close and kill... but then will die in return).
If you want to be evil against eldar then I think lots of toxin hormogaunts, biovores and hive guard would be the way to go- the eldar cant do much damage to hoards from afar, and if they come close they'll either get charged or barraged- eg dire avengers jump ut of a wave serpent that just got immobalised by the hive guard, dakka a unit of hormogaunts then gets wiped out by S4 AP4 large blasts from the biovores (even better is that as long as a bike council didnt turbo boost the biovores have a 1/6 chance of pinning them every time their barrage does a wound (and if you do pin them the farseer wont be casting fortune in the next turn... and you will probably be able to get your homogaunts over to them between the run, move, run and assault moves they can make before the bikes can move again).


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I think the 'nids are effective and nasty, but people are still feeling their way into them. I faced a 1500 3 LR Khan Marine list in my first outing, and no Zoanthropes to crack them open. He didn't even deploy, counting on outflanking to get him done. It ended up a tie. 'Stealers with Adrenal are actually somewhat useful against a land raider, I've now found. So I'm 0-0-1 with Tyranids all time. Since I've had my army since 1995 and it's the first time it's seen battle.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm not 100% sure what kinds of lists you're usually running or what sized games you guys usually play, but something tells me that the issue is a mix of trying to play the army like the 4th edition Tyranids (which just flat out won't work, as the army is completely different now) and having a sub-optimal army list.

Here's one of the better Tyranid lists I've managed to find on the interwebs. It's designed to be a shooting heavy army with a lot of Monstrous Creatures - basically, it's supposed to be as similar to the old Nidzilla as possible to make the adjustment a bit easier.




Stelek at yesthetruthhurts.com said:


> Tyranid Prime w/Lash Whip + Bonesword, Scything Talons, 95.
> Hive Guard x2, 100.
> Hive Guard x2, 100.
> Hive Guard x2, 100.
> ...


Hopefully this'll help a little.

Katie D


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## Evil beaver2 (Feb 3, 2009)

This codex is definately different. So far i really like it, as I have become obsessed with trygon primes and hive guard, both of which have great rules and even better miniatures.

If you need ideas, just check the nid lists section or the forum. Heres a link to my list.


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## flankman (Jan 26, 2009)

id like to try harpies but i dont have anything to use them as AND i play vs blood angels (1 baal pred kills 1 harpy /turn)


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Well, that's true. Haven't had a lot of harpy success yet, but I will keep trying.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

flankman said:


> id like to try harpies but i dont have anything to use them as AND i play vs blood angels (1 baal pred kills 1 harpy /turn)


It's all about cover for Harpies. Use either a really big ass terrain piece or another Monstrous Creature like a Tyrannofex.


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## omgitsduane (May 14, 2008)

I've been playing chaos for 2 years and have won maybe 3 games. Shit happens.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for the great advice! I'm definitly gonna try out the hive guard next. As for the poor deployment ya it was I had to set up first but the eldar player stole iniative and everything moved 12" and shot me to hell, there was allot of high ground that f#%ked me


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm unimpressed by the Harpy, since almost any model that you use to represent it will be HUGE, it's hard to hide. Last time I played against it, it took a S10 twin-linked Fire Prism blast to the face and died on turn 1 as first blood.

(and then I proceeded to kill 3x Zoanthropes with 3x Bright Lance shots... he wasn't happy! :laugh: )


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Katie Drake said:


> It's all about cover for Harpies. Use either a really big ass terrain piece or another Monstrous Creature like a Tyrannofex.


WHich is kind of a shame since they are meant to be a mobile fast attack option... yet S10 or assault cannon/heavy bolters make them so scared they cant really move forward... if it was in teh 120pt range I would be thinking about using them, but as it is this is just another entry that Im glossing over.
Same goes for the T-fex, I like the rules, and would like to use him... but not for the price tag he brings.

So far Ive been relying on rending for dealing with vehicles, and its worked pretty well... but I intend to focus more on the elites part of the FOC (if I ever get round to buying more of them- nids arent my current focus). Instead of a 170pt harpy or a ~300pt T-fex you could get 5-8 raveners using their speed to smash into vehicles... not so good against battlecannons, dreadnaughts and LRs, but vs pretty much anything else they are gold.


If money wasnt an issue I would be so very tempted to go for the total ID vulnerable army- 
2* Alpha- combat
3 Zoes (snot pod)
2*2 Hive Guard
4*3-4 Warriors- combat
3*4 Raveners- rending
2*3 Biovores

119ish wounds of mostly S8 death- elites take out heavy tanks/transports, rending gets anything they miss and if I get into combat most enemies will die horribly... powerfists would be a 'minor' problem though... if I was writing a serious list for it as an idea I would probably go with a couple of units of stealers with broodlords instead of some warriors just to alter the axis of attack and give some flexibility (and I really cant express how much I now love stealers... having barely used them last dex).


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## Zaden (Oct 21, 2008)

NewGuy55 said:


> Wow! Thanks for the great advice! I'm definitly gonna try out the hive guard next. As for the poor deployment ya it was I had to set up first but the eldar player stole iniative and everything moved 12" and shot me to hell, there was allot of high ground that f#%ked me


You can't necessary look at your tactics for holes when something like this happens. This is out of your control, tough to recover from, and just plain ruins your day =) It does make a good argument for outflankers/deepstrikers. Going first or second doesn't matter to these guys.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I only see one problem with Doom in pod and Trygon/Mawloc DSing.

Consider this, if you will. A force of Grey Knights, with a unit of Psycannon-armed Terminators or other heavy unit accompanying them. Pod comes down/Mawloc burrows up/Trygon arrives via Deep Strike. The Inquisitor has 2...I think it's Mystics in his retinue. One unit may take a free round of shooting at one unit arriving from deep strike, so the Mawloc/Trygon/Doom now is hit by Lascannons, Psycannons, Storm BOlter or goodness knows what else before it can do anything at all. I believe this would come before the Mawlocs burrow attack as well. Result: Dead Mawloc sticking out of the ground/ big sticky mess from the sky/huge carcass now faceplanted into the war-torn battlefield.

Just consider it.

Midnight


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Mystics arent that good- just DS 18" or so away from them and they will very rarely be ably to do anything to you... and that is vs a single type of army that isnt all that competetive- your trygons and stealers will really feck with grey knights.


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## NewGuy55 (Jul 1, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> I only see one problem with Doom in pod and Trygon/Mawloc DSing.
> 
> Consider this, if you will. A force of Grey Knights, with a unit of Psycannon-armed Terminators or other heavy unit accompanying them. Pod comes down/Mawloc burrows up/Trygon arrives via Deep Strike. The Inquisitor has 2...I think it's Mystics in his retinue. One unit may take a free round of shooting at one unit arriving from deep strike, so the Mawloc/Trygon/Doom now is hit by Lascannons, Psycannons, Storm BOlter or goodness knows what else before it can do anything at all. I believe this would come before the Mawlocs burrow attack as well. Result: Dead Mawloc sticking out of the ground/ big sticky mess from the sky/huge carcass now faceplanted into the war-torn battlefield.
> 
> ...


Thats one of the huge let downs I have in the new codex, I just think it doesn't make sense? If a unit has no shooting capability and its 100% CC shouldn't it be able to Assault after Deep striking? I mean the raveners are a prefect example, and once again they were a let down in the new codex


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## lordbug (Nov 28, 2009)

use gargoyles to give your big guys cover saves.and there just nasty now, cheap too


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

NewGuy55 said:


> Thats one of the huge let downs I have in the new codex, I just think it doesn't make sense? If a unit has no shooting capability and its 100% CC shouldn't it be able to Assault after Deep striking? I mean the raveners are a prefect example, and once again they were a let down in the new codex


Try _Deep Striking_ behind some cover and Raveners become extremely difficult to get rid of. It's all those darn wounds. :no:


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## Underground Heretic (Aug 9, 2008)

Listen to Katie, your Ravenors have a charge range greater than 12" iirc. You can use your long charge range to force the enemy either to move safely out of your assault range or move well into your charge range if they want to rapid fire. Deep strike smartly, preferably en masse, and your opponent will be faced with many threats in his face quickly and have to let some live.

Here's how you reliably deep strike: Use a coca cola bottle, or other appropriately sized model for a mycetic spore. Put some troops units in the back in safety or in spores. Take two hive tyrants with hive commander. Everything but the tyrants should be deep striking or in pods. Take second turn if possible. Place your tyrants in cover, or in some way hide them. Everything in your army will come in on a 2+ next turn. Unless your opponent can destroy everything or out maneuver you, you should be able to assault turn three allowing your opponent only one round of shooting.

This may be my most feared build of nids only because I play tau, but it should be able to put some hurt on anyone, especially if you bring Zoanthropes. I apologize if my tone was too hostile. However, I vehemently disagree with you that tyranids are underpowered in any real way. They are not the nids of 4th edition, forget what you knew about how to play that army. Go through your codex and read the special rules of each unit in the context of each other. You can find some incredibly powerful units in your codex, if you look hard enough.


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## EuroChild (Feb 4, 2010)

Underground Heretic said:


> Listen to Katie, your Ravenors have a charge range greater than 12" iirc. You can use your long charge range to force the enemy either to move safely out of your assault range or move well into your charge range if they want to rapid fire. Deep strike smartly, preferably en masse, and your opponent will be faced with many threats in his face quickly and have to let some live.
> 
> Here's how you reliably deep strike: Use a coca cola bottle, or other appropriately sized model for a mycetic spore. Put some troops units in the back in safety or in spores. Take two hive tyrants with hive commander. Everything but the tyrants should be deep striking or in pods. Take second turn if possible. Place your tyrants in cover, or in some way hide them. Everything in your army will come in on a 2+ next turn. Unless your opponent can destroy everything or out maneuver you, you should be able to assault turn three allowing your opponent only one round of shooting.
> 
> This may be my most feared build of nids only because I play tau, but it should be able to put some hurt on anyone, especially if you bring Zoanthropes. I apologize if my tone was too hostile. However, I vehemently disagree with you that tyranids are underpowered in any real way. They are not the nids of 4th edition, forget what you knew about how to play that army. Go through your codex and read the special rules of each unit in the context of each other. You can find some incredibly powerful units in your codex, if you look hard enough.


That's good advice, I've had a ten man sternguard squad near anihilated by three raveners and buttloads of lucky rending rolls. True the raveners died, but what's the cost of seven sternguard vets compared to three raveners? Plus the sternguard (due to some unlucky dice rolls) needed the help of the Crazy Mexican (Pedro Kantor) and his honour guard to take out the ravenors.

What the bloke did was deep strike where I couldn't see him, moved out and then did the 12" charge move. When he popped up I couldn't do anything to him (cause I couldn't see him) nor did I think much of them anyway because they never used to last long when he used them back in the day when he was popping a sqaud of 3 raveners in front of a whole damn army (clever).

Either way, the best things about raveners are 12" assault and rending claws. Don't diss them just yet.


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## SHarrington (Jan 7, 2010)

Just out of curiosity...
Has anyone ever seen a Inquisitor with Mystics place in a tournament?
I know I haven't.


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## Katie Drake (Nov 28, 2007)

SHarrington said:


> Just out of curiosity...
> Has anyone ever seen a Inquisitor with Mystics place in a tournament?
> I know I haven't.


A Blood Angel list with that and a squad of PAGK almost won the 'Ard Boyz semi finals in one area. *shrug*


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## SHarrington (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm suitably impressed then. Must have been one excellent player. I can't imagine a novice wielding that type of army with any aptitude.


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Why the love for deepstriking raveners? With a 12" +2D6" + 12" second turn assault (and definate cover/concealment on the way in) DSing raveners just slows them down.

Turn 2 assault ftw.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

+2D6"?
How did you get that?


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Run turn one, fleet turn two.

-or-

Turn one: 6" move, D6 run
Turn two: 6" move, D6 run, 12" charge.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

gotcha, hadnt noticed that you were doing 2 turns worth... not on the ball today


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

This thread makes nids seem like a real pain, rather than underpowered, to be honest.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

OddJob said:


> Why the love for deepstriking raveners? With a 12" +2D6" + 12" second turn assault (and definate cover/concealment on the way in) DSing raveners just slows them down.
> 
> Turn 2 assault ftw.


Completely agree. Thats an average of 31". Add to this the fact that its easy to give them cover on the way across the board than when they drop, it makes it a much better option in my opinion.


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## bakoren (Nov 16, 2009)

good that is how I planned on using mine, We just bumped the point value amongst me and my friends up, and all I need is another box of warriers and a small gaunt box.


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