# The Repeater Cross Bow and Dark Elves



## sladeamx

I think my friends theory that repaeter cross bows with dark evles never have any penalties is way off.

My friend has been playing me in dark elves he has been misinterpeting many rules i have been cheecking. He is now using his repeater cross bows with absolutely no penaltiies. Marching around the board and blasting the heck out of me with two volleys each fig in unit.

I checked and cross bows are move or fire weapons. Repater Cross bows are multishot x2 missle weapons. It staits that multi weapons can shoot once with no penalties or twice at negative one. I think that because they are move or shoot he should get no shots or only 1 shot. Some of his guys get swift stride for fast clavary or pg 77 skirmeshers fire on the march wich has the exception "however unless the item has an exception like the move or shoot" ....which cross bows usually have.

So can someone help me or is he correct and i should just put bulls eyes on my shoelds and the back of my Skavens heads??? :angry:


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## Dave T Hobbit

Pages 44-45 of the DE Army Book set out the rules for this. To précis:

DE Repeater Crossbows are not have "Move of Fire" so can be used after moving; however they do take the multiple shot penalty.

DE Repeater Handbows do not take any penalties for multiple shots or movement.


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## stevenhassell

Dave is right on it


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## Hammer49

I think your friend may need to re read his army book.


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## GrizBe

Yeah, you need to sort your friend out as he's trying to cheat you there. He's clearly not read the rules properly.


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## sladeamx

Thanks guys. I'm a newby (four game s in) but have studied the rules alot. I actually baught the dark elf book to check his army and noticed only his shades could have hand repeater cross bows. Basically he was giving all his untis repeater hand crossbows with the normal crossbow range and no penalties. I can honestly say my skaven are putting up a good fight. I might loose the battle do to misinterpretation of the rules such as him saying his coldone riders were on mostrous calvary and his nasty but incoorect skirmeshers with no penalty multishot crossbows but i have done some damage. We contimued part of the battle wednesday so I only have one question. Now that my skaven have burst out of the chests of 18 of his bowmen (due to the "lucky" 13 spell) can they pick up his now bloody magical unworldly long range no penalty hand repeater crossbows and use them against him? Heh , Heh Thanks ALL


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## Dave T Hobbit

sladeamx said:


> ...only his shades could have hand repeater cross bows.


Corsairs can have them too (assumnig he has any Corsairs).



sladeamx said:


> I can honestly say my skaven are putting up a good fight. I might loose the battle do to misinterpretation of the rules such as him saying his coldone riders were on mostrous calvary and his nasty but incoorect skirmeshers with no penalty multishot crossbows but i have done some damage.


Hmmm... sounds like you are doing well if you are denting his forces despite his edge.



sladeamx said:


> Now that my skaven have burst out of the chests of 18 of his bowmen (due to the "lucky" 13 spell) can they pick up his now bloody magical unworldly long range no penalty hand repeater crossbows and use them against him?


It seems only fair that if he can have them without them being in his list then you can as well:wink:.

More seriously, before you get to aggrieved with your friend, if he is new to the army he might not realise his list is wrong.


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## Masked Jackal

sladeamx said:


> Thanks guys. I'm a newby (four game s in) but have studied the rules alot. I actually baught the dark elf book to check his army and noticed only his shades could have hand repeater cross bows.


Actually, only Black Ark Corsairs can have Repeater Handbows. Repeater Crossbowmen, upgraded Dark Riders, Shades and the Cold One Chariot all have repeater crossbows.



> Basically he was giving all his untis repeater hand crossbows with the normal crossbow range and no penalties.


Some of them might have had it. Ask him for his list next time.


> I can honestly say my skaven are putting up a good fight. I might loose the battle do to misinterpretation of the rules such as him saying his coldone riders were on mostrous calvary and his nasty but incoorect skirmeshers with no penalty multishot crossbows but i have done some damage.


Yeah, Cold One Knights are not monstrous cavalry, as clearly stated in the rulebook, and Shades, even though they have great BS, still suffer significant penalties. 


> We contimued part of the battle wednesday so I only have one question. Now that my skaven have burst out of the chests of 18 of his bowmen (due to the "lucky" 13 spell) can they pick up his now bloody magical unworldly long range no penalty hand repeater crossbows and use them against him? Heh , Heh Thanks ALL


If he's cheating this bad, lay down an ultimatum that if he's going to use this shit against you, you can do it against him.


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## stevenhassell

> can they pick up his now bloody magical unworldly long range no penalty hand repeater crossbows and use them against him?


lol uh two wrongs dont make a right...right..lol


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## Masked Jackal

stevenhassell said:


> lol uh two wrongs dont make a right...right..lol


Threatening it on him if he persists in his behavior will highlight how ludicrous his actions are. If he continues to be a nuisance after that, then he would just have to leave.


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## Gromrir Silverblade

I am now at the stage of thinking about branching out into another army and have been considering DE for a while (unless the prophesised TK units are bad ass). So if I am understanding this right, they can wander around the board with their large movement, fire a couple of shots with a Str 4 crossbow, with a penalty for multi shots or no penalty for 1 shot. If so that is pretty bad ass.


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## ultor

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> I am now at the stage of thinking about branching out into another army and have been considering DE for a while (unless the prophesised TK units are bad ass). So if I am understanding this right, they can wander around the board with their large movement, fire a couple of shots with a Str 4 crossbow, with a penalty for multi shots or no penalty for 1 shot. If so that is pretty bad ass.


Well movements are fine for DE units, they can all move and shoot (24' unfortunately) with Str 3 armor piercing crossbows.

With BS 4, a regular crossbowman can move 5' &multi shoot at 24'(long range) and hit on 6s. (can S&S with multishot and hit on 5+)

With BS 5, a shade can move 10' multi shoot at 24' and hit on 5+. (can S&S with multishot and hit on 4+)

With BS 4. a corsair can move 5' multi shot at 8' (max range but no penalty) and hit on 4+. (but handbows don't have armor piercing) (and can also stand and shoot regardless of the distance between and hit on 4+s)

They are fine but not too overpowered I guess. (hitting is easy but its hard to wound a T4 with S3 )


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## Vaz

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> I am now at the stage of thinking about branching out into another army and have been considering DE for a while (unless the prophesised TK units are bad ass). So if I am understanding this right, they can wander around the board with their large movement, fire a couple of shots with a Str 4 crossbow, with a penalty for multi shots or no penalty for 1 shot. If so that is pretty bad ass.


Play Dark Elves. You won't have a retarded army book like the O+G; basically selling out everything Fantasy was.


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## Gromrir Silverblade

ultor said:


> Well movements are fine for DE units, they can all move and shoot (24' unfortunately) with Str 3 armor piercing crossbows.
> 
> With BS 4, a regular crossbowman can move 5' &multi shoot at 24'(long range) and hit on 6s. (can S&S with multishot and hit on 5+)
> 
> With BS 5, a shade can move 10' multi shoot at 24' and hit on 5+. (can S&S with multishot and hit on 4+)
> 
> With BS 4. a corsair can move 5' multi shot at 8' (max range but no penalty) and hit on 4+. (but handbows don't have armor piercing) (and can also stand and shoot regardless of the distance between and hit on 4+s)
> 
> They are fine but not too overpowered I guess. (hitting is easy but its hard to wound a T4 with S3 )


Ah yeah, I often watch my HE buddy shoot with loads of archers at dwarfs and get loads of hit but with toughness 4 and and a 4+ armour save that is not modified, he generally doesn't kill loads. So I guess the basic xbow men is like a skink with a blowpipe, except with longer range and no poison. DE do sound cool but I have to say I'm not that excited about the shooting choices listed, so apart from Hydras, what's good?


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## Masked Jackal

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> Ah yeah, I often watch my HE buddy shoot with loads of archers at dwarfs and get loads of hit but with toughness 4 and and a 4+ armour save that is not modified, he generally doesn't kill loads. So I guess the basic xbow men is like a skink with a blowpipe, except with longer range and no poison. DE do sound cool but I have to say I'm not that excited about the shooting choices listed, so apart from Hydras, what's good?


Dark Elves have some of the best hammers in the game. Cold One Knights, Witch Elves, Black Guard, Hydras, all can do obscene amounts of damage if you play them right. The Dark Elf army is all about unraveling the enemy one concentrated combat at a time. Shooting is mostly used in Dark Elf lists to soften enemies up for that big blow`or to take out smaller units that might interfere.


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## Kulzanar

ultor said:


> Well movements are fine for DE units, they can all move and shoot (24' unfortunately) with Str 3 armor piercing crossbows.
> 
> With BS 4, a regular crossbowman can move 5' &multi shoot at 24'(long range) and hit on 6s. (can S&S with multishot and hit on 5+)
> 
> With BS 5, a shade can move 10' multi shoot at 24' and hit on 5+. (can S&S with multishot and hit on 4+)
> 
> With BS 4. a corsair can move 5' multi shot at 8' (max range but no penalty) and hit on 4+. (but handbows don't have armor piercing) (and can also stand and shoot regardless of the distance between and hit on 4+s)
> 
> They are fine but not too overpowered I guess. (hitting is easy but its hard to wound a T4 with S3 )


Don't forget the dark riders. They can march up to 18" (Fast cav, shoot 24" with a BS of 4, the to hit roll mostly being 5+ or 6+ as you multi-shoot but try to be in close range. Same profile as an dark elf repeater crossbow.

As for the can we pick it up after we changed you into rats. Well ofcourse you can't, but neither would I use it as a threat if he messes up again. It has been said, two wrongs do not make right. Either he didn't know, and if he has been an ass saying things as, I'm sure and I'm certain, I know my damn army. (trust me I know such people). Just point it out to him, show it in his book and then you can quite say in his face you know it better than him. His cheeks will flush and he'll mutter and grumble but keep his mouth shut. If he doesn't, then stop playing against him for a while. Threatening you'll use it against him will only make you look like the ass for everyone near at the moment and he'll be looked upon as the innocent one even though he did make a mistake. The game is meant to be around sportmanship, yes there are many not quite following that guideline but that doesn't mean you have to as well. Warhammer is a game where the more experienced players should feel obliged to teach the newcomers the correct way of the game and by pointing it out friendly will make you look like the bigger man and more experienced player. Do not threaten (except not to play against someone with a bad playing attitude, they need to learn to accept a defeat and not to brag over a victory or totally flip over a draw)


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## Alsojames

Yeah, crossbows are move-or-fire. It's the HANDbows that can move and shoot (and without penalties? Wooooooo).

Note that you can give your dreadlords a pair of handbows as well.


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## Azkaellon

Alsojames said:


> Yeah, crossbows are move-or-fire. It's the HANDbows that can move and shoot (and without penalties? Wooooooo).
> 
> Note that you can give your dreadlords a pair of handbows as well.


Handbows are great on corsairs, hand weapon\handbow! Wait for your opponent to charge then give them a few shots in the face


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## Alsojames

stand and shoooooooooooooooooooooooooot!!!!1!!

Also, putting a Dredlord with 2 handbows + a hidden assassin = win


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## Orochi

Dark elf firepower is basically 'fast and furious'.

It's intense fire power a shorter range. Basically, the guys have thompsons over garands (or some other more realistic gun comparison).

It's punishing for hordes, as they basically walk into a hail of low strength death. Armies like WoC won't be as affected, but the amount of dice you can roll is pretty daunting.


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## Alsojames

Watch out skaven! I gots a lot o' shooting heading your way!

3 Words: Reaper Bolt-thrower


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## Farseer Darvaleth

Alsojames said:


> Watch out skaven! I gots a lot o' shooting heading your way!
> 
> 3 Words: Reaper Bolt-thrower


Why use up your rare points for them when you can have hydras? Just not worth it any more. :laugh:


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## Masked Jackal

Alsojames said:


> Yeah, crossbows are move-or-fire. It's the HANDbows that can move and shoot (and without penalties? Wooooooo).
> 
> Note that you can give your dreadlords a pair of handbows as well.


It's a good thing Dark Elves don't use Crossbows then.


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## Alsojames

Yep 

Reapeater Crossbows, though.


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## ultor

And Dark elf repeaters are move-and-fire  (with penalties ofc)
Handbow's only suffer multishot penalty. (but with 8' range)


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