# Iron Warriors vs Salamanders



## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Another question as to who is better at their art. A Chapter size Legion of the galaxies best sieging force the IWs, or the entire Chapter of master forgers the Salamnders. This is not Pre Heresy. I also think Honsou and his crew is perfect choice in leading the IWs here. Battle takes place on the Sallies homeworld.

Edit: Some confusion on the size of the forces and conditions.
1) 1000 IWs led by Honsou (Hes the only well known Warsmith that i Know of) and IWs has their fleet and vehicles typical of IWs.
2) Slamanders consist of the whole Chapter. I am not sure if Salamanders are full Chapter strength (1000) or below strength like CF or RG. They are defending their homeworld.
3) Conditions are whatever is typical of IW siege (like Storm of Iron) and Sallies are using everything from fleet forces to the PDF (if they have one).


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## gen.ahab (Dec 22, 2009)

What are the numbers for the IW?


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

If its on the salamanders homeworld then im reckoning that they would make the IW's there bitches! 
The IW's wouldn't find many things to siege so there best skill is useless on Nocturne.

So yeah Salamanders have the homefield advantage so they would most likely own the IW's inside of a month.


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## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

Then again there are seven major points to seige. the disadvantage is the tenctonic instability. They may have sheilds and structures to protect them but the contant stress would cause problems. Also, the Salamanders would be exploited by their care for human life, bombing the major populations, forcing them to seperate and help their people in their plight, spreading their small chapter thinner.

The real power of the Imperium is that if you invade a planet, there will be inevatable help and backlash form it so reinforcements are a problem.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

Is nocturnce a civilised world? I cant remember, if so, that means PDF as well as Sallies defending, not to mention, they have that GIGANTIC defense laser.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Helsreach said:


> Then again there are seven major points to seige. the disadvantage is the tenctonic instability. They may have sheilds and structures to protect them but the contant stress would cause problems. Also, the Salamanders would be exploited by their care for human life, bombing the major populations, forcing them to seperate and help their people in their plight, spreading their small chapter thinner.
> 
> The real power of the Imperium is that if you invade a planet, there will be inevatable help and backlash form it so reinforcements are a problem.


An instability in seismic activity that the Salamanders have had centuries to deal with and adapt their way of life and structures to, it would more likely effect the siege works that the IW were to create than the fortifications they'd be putting under siege.

In my point of view any Legion could take any other Legion if they were operating on their home ground, it would be difficult for instance to ambush the defending Legion, if say, they knew all the viable ambush points in the world's terrain- similar concept with any other type of warfare or tactic.


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## Helsreach (Jun 2, 2010)

Don't you use yor "logic" and "tactics" on us. That may be perfectly true and kinda obvious now that you mention it. Still we want to know if the guys with flamethrowers beat the guys with Baskalisks with spikes and skulls on them.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Home field advantage seems to always play a factor. However, as someone already mentioned, it does actually play a bit to the Iron Warrior's advantage to have other targets in which the Salamander's Chapter would fight desperately to defend. This may prevent the Salamanders from fighting real objectives. 

I also think that like most chaos legions, these astartes are more veteran than the Salamanders. So that would be another advantage to the Iron Warriors. 

Back to home field advantage. Because the Salamander's homeworld constantly changes with all the volcanic activity I believe it plays an advantage for both the Iron Warriors and Salamanders. The Iron Warriors would not be able to establish a confident foot to lay siege, but the Salamanders would also be obvious targets with limited ways to be tactful within their shielded cities. 

I like the Salamanders. But I'd have to give the advantage to the Iron Warriors by a field goal. 
 I feel like a Espn football talker.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

I disagree, every planet has a PDF, which is an advantage, they also have a powerful space bound defence laser, in addition to whatever other planetary defences.

The one thing I can see tipping this to the IW is the fact that as a LEGION and a legion that unlike others, isnt very fractured, can call upon more marines. (In theory)


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

Yes but the idea in question hear is a chapter vs. chapter, 1000 Salamanders vs. 1000 Iron Warriors. So no counting PDF or the rest of the IW legion as reinforcements mores the pity . I reckon the Salamanders would win even if they had to defend the local populace against attack, as we all know they have the emperor on der side as well. 

(INSERT SCEPTICAL LOOK HERE)

There morale won't break and they will fight to the last brother-marine to defend there homeworld, homefield advantage is more than just knowing everything about the terrain and climate. I still think that the Salamanders would win.


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## SonofVulkan (Apr 14, 2010)

Iron warriors for the win.

Just finished reading the short story Fires of War by Nick Kyme. (If you've not read it this post contains spoilers!) If all Salamanders are like the ones in the story they wouldn't stand a chance. First off, walking into a trip wire, with all there heightened senses a marine wouldn't do that....apart from Salamanders it would seem. I lost track of how many times they walked into ambushes, got shot to bits, then retreated. They even got there captain killed in the end by not following orders. If a small squad of Dragon Warriors can get the better of them, then they wouldn't stand a chance against the more experienced Iron Warriors. After reading that story I've been thinking of turning my Sons of Vulkan, my home-brew Salamander successor chapter, renegade.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

SonofVulkan said:


> Iron warriors for the win.
> 
> Just finished reading the short story Fires of War by Nick Kyme. (If you've not read it this post contains spoilers!) If all Salamanders are like the ones in the story they wouldn't stand a chance. First off, walking into a trip wire, with all there heightened senses a marine wouldn't do that....apart from Salamanders it would seem. I lost track of how many times they walked into ambushes, got shot to bits, then retreated. They even got there captain killed in the end by not following orders. If a small squad of Dragon Warriors can get the better of them, then they wouldn't stand a chance against the more experienced Iron Warriors. After reading that story I've been thinking of turning my Sons of Vulkan, my home-brew Salamander successor chapter, renegade.


Yeah, though I don't like saying chapters are worst than others, I can't help but think that sometimes the Salamanders aren't really good at dealing with other astartes in combat. I'm saying this, and my favorite loyalist chapter is the Salamanders. The Salamanders are truly an underdog chapter.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I too belive some Chapters are etheir to "one trick pony" or dont have enough going for them to outdo other chapters. Like White Scars, very reliant on bikes and calvary tatics, take that away from them and there less effective. Same for Crimson Fist, so low in #s now they cant hold their own against a Full Chapter. Raven Guard comes to mind to becuase they are low in #s and rely on Ambushing and guerilla style wars, put them on a plant or moonsurface with little cover/hiding spots and their tatics fail. 

I havent read the Slamanders books yet, so im no expert on them, but isnt it true like Raven Guard they never had recovered their #s since the HH?


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Warlock in Training said:


> I too belive some Chapters are etheir to "one trick pony" or dont have enough going for them to outdo other chapters. Like White Scars, very reliant on bikes and calvary tatics, take that away from them and there less effective. Same for Crimson Fist, so low in #s now they cant hold their own against a Full Chapter. Raven Guard comes to mind to becuase they are low in #s and rely on Ambushing and guerilla style wars, put them on a plant or moonsurface with little cover/hiding spots and their tatics fail.
> 
> I havent read the Slamanders books yet, so im no expert on them, but isnt it true like Raven Guard they never had recovered their #s since the HH?


The Raven Guard are a full strength Chapter, where did you get the idea they weren't?
The Salamanders actually do have less Marines than a standard Codex Chapter but that's due to their organisational structure and stringent aspirant trials rather than anything to do with the Heresy.

Saying the Crimson Fists wouldn't perform well against a full size Chapter is very obvious, they'd be outnumbered 5-1, I can't think of a Chapter that would do well in those conditions versus other Astartes.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

DA' kir would burn them all,


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## clever handle (Dec 14, 2009)

Well (and here's a problem with a bunch of fluff - ie word bearer's actions on Calth during the heresy) wouldn't the IW just simply virus bomb the planet from orbit? If you're just talking the extermination of the salamanders with no desire to gain relics / technology the answer is virus bomb from orbit.

Now if you're talking a pure invasion for the purpose of holding the planet I believe conventional wisdom holds that you'd need an invading force at least 3 times larger than that of the defenders... so really with that in mind it doesn't matter which legion / chapters you're talking about, if you're talking 1000ish marines on each side, the defender wins almost every time.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Thats true. It most likiliness, The Iron Warriors would have more than simply a thousand marines. I also imagine they'd have lots of cannon fodder.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

You got experienced and warped Iron Warriors against the slow Salamanders. I got to go with Iron Warriors on this one. I don't like this challenge. I think its unfair. And to be honest, I think the only way for the Salamanders to really stand a chance is if they happen to have Gaurdsman Hawke or whatever from Storm of Iron.


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## Zhou The Maladjusted (Nov 25, 2010)

Supposing it's Honsou that is leading the force attacking the Salamanders, does this count in his forces from the Skull Harvest? If that's the case, battle would go to the Iron Warriors. Some seventeen-thousand Chaos Warriors, a fair amount of them probably Chaos Marines, would definitely overwhelm the 800-some Salamanders quickly, even with a large number of Imperial Guardsmen.

On a straight up Iron Warrior vs. Salamanders fight, It would be pretty close. Iron Warriors have lots of experience, a specialty in siege warfare (which would come in handy in any kind of assault) and powers of Chaos at their disposal. 

Salamanders on the other hand, have the home advantage, just for starters. This means they know the territory, probably have set defenses, and are able to get reinforcements much easier than the Iron Warriors. I don't know much about the Salamanders, but those basic facts are already enough to at least even the fight.

Although I would like to see the Iron Warriors win, I have to give the win to the Salamanders. Albeit with heavy casualties, probably almost wiping the chapter out completely.


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> You got experienced and warped Iron Warriors against the slow Salamanders. I got to go with Iron Warriors on this one. I don't like this challenge. I think its unfair. And to be honest, I think the only way for the Salamanders to really stand a chance is if they happen to have Gaurdsman Hawke or whatever from Storm of Iron.


WHAT?!?! Salamanders slow? :angry: They specialise in defense and hit-n-run how are they slow? If anything the IW's are slow coz they rely on there being a way to isolate their enemy and ground them down, Salamanders initiation is a single trial and when not training/fighting they roam alone on Nocturne making them ideal for quick response, guerilla and ambush warfare. Slow my ass.:threaten:


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Lord_Anonymous said:


> WHAT?!?! Salamanders slow? :angry: They specialise in defense and hit-n-run how are they slow? If anything the IW's are slow coz they rely on there being a way to isolate their enemy and ground them down, Salamanders initiation is a single trial and when not training/fighting they roam alone on Nocturne making them ideal for quick response, guerilla and ambush warfare. Slow my ass.:threaten:


The Salamanders are quite slow actually (compared to your usual astartes). Its due to the gravity on their planet. It also causes them to be relativley smaller than most astartes. If you would like to know more on them, you could probably find the info in the old Armageddon Codex.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

ckcrawford said:


> The Salamanders are quite slow actually (compared to your usual astartes). Its due to the gravity on their planet. It also causes them to be relativley smaller than most astartes. If you would like to know more on them, you could probably find the info in the old Armageddon Codex.


According to the Armageddon Mini-dex they're slightly slower but actually more muscular than most Astartes, so what they trade in agility they make up for with brawn.


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Its interesting how nobody mentioned factors outside the planet.

1, grab a map. Preferably the one in the Space Marine Codex (p.30).

2, find Macragge; should be easy because its highlighted. Then go from there to 7-8 o'clock. Theres Nocturne. Yay. Now spend some more time examining the sorrounding Chapter homeworlds. You should find that the White Scars, the Raven Guard and the Ultramarines are all within earshot, and thats just the first founding Chapters. Crimson Fists live almost next door, for instance.

3, Plot a course from the Eye of Terror (assuming they come from Medrengard) to Nocturne. With an invasion force. Even if you ride in the Warp all the way you'll be found and caught. Mainly because of the size of the force and because you're not Batman like the Night Lords who pull off stunts like this on a daily basis.

4, Lets assume that you split up your force to small fragments and rally them somewhere around the Maelstrom, and Huron lets your troops stay for a while, and everything works out just fine. Whew.

5, Lets assume you manage to reach Nocturne without being detected. At this point you're Robin and the Night Lords look daggers at you for trying to steal their licensed stunt.

6, You battle barge in (haha) and:
6a, you bombrape the planet 'cause you're in a rush. Anti-climatic hurpaderp, yeah, but the Inquisition does it all the time. Though you're not a Reasonable Marine so you wouldn't think of such an obvious solution to this apparently complex but truth to be told pretty easy problem. *GOOD END.*
6b, you quickly deploy your forces and go for a blitzkrieg. The Sallies don't need to be tactical geniuses to realise that you're on a tight schedule and they do their best to make you waste as much time as possible, while saving as many lives as possible. Tough call, but the Sallies are really ballsy and they'll try to pull it off, whatever it takes. Armageddon taught that to everyone I think.

7, The Sallies know that you want to kill all of them so they hide so you can't, and that so they can gang up on you with their friends and kill you instead. As you waste time and manpower on them, Imperial forces are alerted to your presence and a massive strikeforce is en route to skullrape you. Eventually, you have to turn tail and run for your life because the ULTRAMARINES have arrived, along with some insane armada of Space Marines, Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard. Hell, there might be some Sisters and bored Grey Knights there too. You manage to run home and everyone prefers not to remember what happened. *BAD END.*

Then again, within the supposed confines of the thread I'd say the Iron Warriors would win, thanks to the usual things: 1, KEKEKEKEKKEKEE Culist meatshield and cannon fodder. 2, half the army is made up of HH veterans who know their shit, while the rest are "simply" well trained by said veterans. Oh and there are several hundred if not thousands of both kind. 3, Its Honsou leading them, so no METAL BAWKSES and SIIIINDRIIII and BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, no sir. 

As for the poor Sallies... well.. I don't remember their homeworld having Titans like that fortress did in Storm of Iron. Sure they're fighting in their own kitchen but 1, theres nowhere to run. 2, the civilians will be butchered just to piss them off and make them jump from their hiding place. 

The Iron Warriors' victory would be hard-fought, but victory nonetheless.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> Its interesting how nobody mentioned factors outside the planet.
> 
> 1, grab a map. Preferably the one in the Space Marine Codex (p.30).
> 
> 2, find Macragge; should be easy because its highlighted. Then go from there to 7-8 o'clock. Theres Nocturne. Yay. Now spend some more time examining the sorrounding Chapter homeworlds. You should find that the White Scars, the Raven Guarda and the Ultramarines are all within earshot, and thats just the first founding Chapters. Crimson Fists live almost next door, for instance.


If by next door you mean months or years of warp travel away then yeah I suppose they're neighbours...



Khorothis said:


> 3, Plot a course from the Eye of Terror (assuming they come from Medrengard) to Nocturne. With an invasion force. Even if you ride in the Warp all the way you'll be found and caught. Mainly because of the size of the force and because you're not Batman like the Night Lords who pull off stunts like this on a daily basis.


 Why? The Imperium doesn't control all the space between the EoT and Nocturn.



Khorothis said:


> 4, Lets assume that you split up your force to small fragments and rally them somewhere around the Maelstrom, and Huron lets your troops stay for a while, and everything works out just fine. Whew.


If Huron lets them stay? Huron isn't a mini-Abaddon (as in Abaddon is unarguably the most powerful Chaos Warlord in the EoT) he's just one of many powerful Warlords in the Maelstrom, one of the more powerful no doubt but not preeminent.



Khorothis said:


> 6, You battle barge in (haha) and:
> 6a, you bombrape the planet 'cause you're in a rush. Anti-climatic hurpaderp, yeah, but the Inquisition does it all the time. Though you're not a Reasonable Marine so you wouldn't think of such an obvious solution to this apparently complex but truth to be told pretty easy problem. *GOOD END.*


Except of course the Salamanders also have a powerful Fleet who could, perhaps, batter the IW into submission.




Khorothis said:


> Then again, within the supposed confines of the thread I'd say the Iron Warriors would win, thanks to the usual things: 1, KEKEKEKEKKEKEE Culist meatshield and cannon fodder. 2, half the army is made up of HH veterans who know their shit, while the rest are "simply" well trained by said veterans. Oh and there are several hundred if not thousands of both kind. 3, Its Honsou leading them, so no METAL BAWKSES and SIIIINDRIIII and BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, no sir.


Finally you answer the OP's question...oh wait no you don't.



Khorothis said:


> As for the poor Sallies... well.. I don't remember their homeworld having Titans like that fortress did in Storm of Iron. Sure they're fighting in their own kitchen but 1, theres nowhere to run. 2, the civilians will be butchered just to piss them off and make them jump from their hiding place.
> 
> The Iron Warriors' victory would be hard-fought, but victory nonetheless


I agree that if all the remanants of the Iron Warriors Legion invaded the Salamander's homeworld they'd win if no outside reinforcements are involved, but considering that isn't what's being asked I stand by my belief that the IW would get their arses handed to them.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

on a plate


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

Thank you Baron Spikey, at least someone actually read the post at the start which is 1000 Sallies vs. 1000 IW's. not the whole legion or the whole friggin segmentum. Salamanders would win, it would be hardfought but they would win. And it would be a very large middle finger to the Chaos Gods!


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Baron Spikey said:


> If by next door you mean months or years of warp travel away then yeah I suppose they're neighbours...
> 
> I suppose its okay to suppose that I understand that they're just relatively neighbours, right?
> 
> ...


@Lord Anonymous

Suddenly I'm not sure if we're in the same thread. Heres the first post, AKA OP, quoted in its entirety:



Warlock in Training said:


> Another question as to who is better at their art. A Chapter size Legion of the galaxies best sieging force the IWs, or the entire Chapter of master forgers the Salamnders. This is not Pre Heresy. I also think Honsou and his crew is perfect choice in leading the IWs here. Battle takes place on the Sallies homeworld.


I'm under the assumption that Honsou's force, the one he inherited in Storm of Iron, was much bigger than a Chapter, though since then there might have been a few things I don't know about - in this case I humbly request some input, especially the title of the book. But even so, it shouldn't have shrunk beyond what you could call a "fat" Chapter, with some 1200-1300 Marines. And thats just the Marines, no artillery crew, no Cultists, no nothing, just the Marines. 
On the other side, the Salamanders are admittedly not on their full strength, so I guess theres around 800-850 of them. 
So even if we assume that every Salamander is at home when the Iron Warrior strike force appears (out of nowhere, I might add), its not 1000 vs 1000. Its 1200 CSM+shitloads of Cultists+air superiority vs. 850 SM+strong PDF+ground superiority. 
If I'm on my ship I decide when and where we fight. If we fight at all and I won't give the Sallies on the planet a taste of good ol' Istvaan III. Except I won't bother going down there, up and personal, I'd just watch as the planet cracks open like a watermelon and enjoy the show. If you don't mind the Inquisition doing it to your own people then it shouldn't be a problem if I did that to them every once in a while.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

Khorothis said:


> I suppose its okay to suppose that I understand that they're just relatively neighbours, right?


As long as you understand that the distance to the Eastern Fringe from Nocturn would take years to traverse.



Khorothis said:


> I didn't know Segmentum Solar wasn't Imperial territory. Which happens to be in the way if you want to be quick and you don't want to waste several decades on getting to Segmentum Tempestus alone. Though I guess you're right, if I fly by a Maiden World thats Eldar territory, and they're pretty subjective when it comes to determining their respective territories.


Segmentum Solar is Imperial space but most of 'Imperial Space' isn't controlled by the Imperium, or might never have even be visited/discovered by Imperial forces- the borders of the Imperium seem to encompass most the Galaxy and yet it's only made up of over a million worlds despite the fact there are billions of worlds contained within those 'borders'.
It's not like national boundaries in the 21st century, it's more like a country claiming all the oceans as it's territory but only having a single small island in an area the size of a continent which it directly controls.



Khorothis said:


> Is the whole fleet of the Chapter there? Obviously not. Is there a lot of Imperial Navy there? Not as much as normally, thanks to the Tyranid invasion next door (relatively). So I doubt the Iron Warriors would have trouble with the fleet guarding the place. Especially since the fleet would have to defend both the moon and the planet; I can imagine several ways the defenders' could be divided and thus conquered.


Why wouldn't the whole fleet be there in this hypothetical situation? Plus the Tyranid invasion next door? You mean the Tyranid invasion that is at best months away or years if they travel to Ultramar.



Khorothis said:


> I think its you who didn't. You said "Legion vs Legion", but OP said its not Pre-Heresy. In comparison I answered the question twice and provided a decent, logical reasoning for my thoughts on the subject; which can of course be questioned and proved wrong, like any other reasoning.


 I merely used the wrong term but with the idea that any force of Astartes could conceivably defeat any other equally sized force of Astartes, especially on home ground. In actuallity you've not answered the question once as you keep adding your own qualifications to the hypothesis rather than addressing the one the OP asked.



Khorothis said:


> I'm under the assumption that Honsou's force, the one he inherited in Storm of Iron, was much bigger than a Chapter, though since then there might have been a few things I don't know about - in this case I humbly request some input, especially the title of the book. But even so, it shouldn't have shrunk beyond what you could call a "fat" Chapter, with some 1200-1300 Marines. And thats just the Marines, no artillery crew, no Cultists, no nothing, just the Marines.
> On the other side, the Salamanders are admittedly not on their full strength, so I guess theres around 800-850 of them.
> So even if we assume that every Salamander is at home when the Iron Warrior strike force appears (out of nowhere, I might add), its not 1000 vs 1000. Its 1200 CSM+shitloads of Cultists+air superiority vs. 850 SM+strong PDF+ground superiority.
> If I'm on my ship I decide when and where we fight. If we fight at all and I won't give the Sallies on the planet a taste of good ol' Istvaan III. Except I won't bother going down there, up and personal, I'd just watch as the planet cracks open like a watermelon and enjoy the show. If you don't mind the Inquisition doing it to your own people then it shouldn't be a problem if I did that to them every once in a while.


So for some reason you decided that the OP wasn't asking about a Chapter sized force of Iron Warriors (roughly 1,000) but Honsou's Warband? Why have you decided that the IW would constitute a 'fat' Chapter when that wasn't the hypothetical situation?


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## Khorothis (May 12, 2009)

Oh boy, here we go again...


Baron Spikey said:


> As long as you understand that the distance to the Eastern Fringe from Nocturn would take years to traverse.
> 
> Thanks for assuming I have more IQ than Forrest Gump. I'm forever in your debt.
> 
> ...


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

I would say after reading Khorothis vs Baron, that IW would win this fight since the IW have a somewhat massive troop advantage, advanced siege equipment, sizable fleet, and surprise on their side and thats not even the best part. Honsou is leading the assault making this really unlikely that Sallies will win. All the warsmiths i presume plan out there invasions to the dime making sure there are no loose ends when they commit to an Invasion. They are cold and calculating and plan for everything from reinforcements, conditions, logistics, and the strength and weaknesses of their foe. Plus they are hardened veteran siege specialists. They can turn any home advantage any enemy might have into their advantage. They not only know how to fight a planet from space but also how to fight them on land. Every decision is part of a bigger plan already in motion.

Result: IW decisive victory, Sallies wiped out. Reinforcements may change the outcome if a sizable force comes to relieve the Sallies, but most likely Sallies will be dead and IW gone before any help arrives.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Mar 23, 2009)

You do realise that if Honsou is *leading* the Iron Warriors, he is the *only* warsmith present. 

Also, many of Honsou's warband is made up of space marines that were inducted long long after the heresy.


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## For-The-Warmaster (Nov 26, 2010)

Seige objectives for attacker.
1) find all or most the defenses and than find a way around.
2) to find ways to get the defenders out of all that protection.
3)Blockade all trade routs and messages for backup.
4) Storm the enemy
Seige objective for defenders.
1) keep the enemies at bay till the backup arrives.
So to give to you ill have to go for the sallies. due to they have 1 to 2 objectives (2)defending the populace)
And ship killer shots will probably destroy many ships before they land there cargo of IW.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I added the specifics to my question in the opening post. This is simply 1000 IW CSM led by Honsou (the only real documented Warsmith) outfitted with the ships, cannon fodder, and vehicles that was typical in Storm of Iron. The whole Sally Chapter (800 I think its been mention) and whatever defences, ships, PDF they can muster on their homeworld. I want to knoe who would likely prevail. 

So far I learn Salamanders are slower but stronger than the average SM. The Chapter is around 800 strong. They have a huge Defence Laser. The only real Characters in the chapter is that Chaplain Xavier and Vulcan Hestan. They dont have a large number of Land Speeders, Bikes, Jump Packs. Excellent in Melta and Fire Weapons. Each SM is capable of fixing, reparing, and maintaning their gear in the field better than most SMs. 

So..... keep the commets coming.


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## For-The-Warmaster (Nov 26, 2010)

It depends how much shots the defence laser has and how much ships are in each fleet.


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## For-The-Warmaster (Nov 26, 2010)

The canon fodder would be good at finding the defences. But again how much is Qauntity is the canon fodder. Also do they have void shields.


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## TRU3 CHAOS (May 21, 2010)

Oh by the way, GW killed off Chaplain Xavier. I think he got killed by a bunch of Dark Eldar.


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## For-The-Warmaster (Nov 26, 2010)

Oh and if the pdf are involved I will have to hand it to the sallies.


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## piemelke (Oct 13, 2010)

vel Cona is a quite strong salamander character,


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## XxDreMisterxX (Dec 23, 2009)

Well 1000 IW is still 1000 veteran siege specialists space marines. So as long as their in the "sieging position" then they have the clear advantage since thats what they are good at. Also if we are taking the weaponry from Storm of Iron into account then they most likely will have one or two titans plus a couple terminator squads. Even then the battle might go both ways. I can see the Sallies losing the battle to protect the citizens as they are a unpredictable variable and a liability because they will put their defense efforts into keeping them safe rather then taking the most defendable position and holding till the very end (or till the last sallie) and also the civilians provide a excellent source for prisoners and cannon fodder for the IW. The only problem i see is that the IW wont be able to dig trenches for better protection due to unstable enviroment (though it is possible to dig into volcanic features, but not safe) but that also limits the Sallies as then their fortifications wont be the strongest around. Also IW have many devious ways and strats to force a battle into their advantage with vehicles and weaponry. Most likely their first targets when they invade is to take out the Defense Laser which they might do with a small tactical team of CSM. If laser is taken out then they can land all their forces without much hinderance, But if laser was around it could really weaken the IW and would nulify orbital support. Next target would probably be heavily populated areas where they can get prisoners and then they would stage a invasion to cover all the defensive locations the sallies might take and then siege the major cities.

I would say if the laser did enough damage then it would really swing the battle over to the Sallies plus their advantage of home field turf.


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## WinZip (Oct 9, 2010)

Truely i think that the battle could swing either way. you have the salamanders on home turf with PDF, against a 1000 veteran IW who can be very underhanded with there attacks. In a "fair" fight with the Sallies and PDF against the IW, Sallies would win. But, with the IW using there siege capabilities to there advantage and striking at the populace, the Salamanders would have to spread there forces thin to protect the hab areas, where at that point the IW could isolate and destroy the defended areas one by one.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

TRU3 CHAOS said:


> Oh by the way, GW killed off Chaplain Xavier. I think he got killed by a bunch of Dark Eldar.


What, Really? DE killed a major character! Wow.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Warlock in Training said:


> What, Really? DE killed a major character! Wow.


I know right? Thats why they stopped making the Xavier model and decided not to give him rules. He's such a badass I guess they had to do it. I remember back with bitz orders I ordered a whole bunch of xavier capes for my army.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

But Chaplain Xavier also wasn't a 'current' character- he was like Lord Solar Macharius, they were characters who died/were killed in the recent past but included in the Codex for historical games.


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## Lord_Anonymous (Oct 13, 2010)

WOW!!! You guys actually managed to change the question again, READ THE VERY FIRST POST! 1000 Sallies vs. 1000 IW's, no fleet action or reinforcements or named characters. This is a laboratory situation not real life in the 40k universe so no cultists or fat legions just 1000 vs. 1000.


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