# End of the Imperium?



## Ghengis Vaughn (Apr 18, 2009)

Hello all,

I got my hands on a 5th ed core rulebook ( the hardback not BR ) and found a time line that stated that the Imperium was in "The Time of Ending". I also read excerpts that stated that we were losing the beacon of the emperor and that the golden throne was starting to break down.

Has the fluff always been like this? I knew that the empire of man was having a rough go of it but I never thought of it as "failing". Is GW working towards a resolution of this storyline? Are they planning something different or have we been in the "Time of Ending" since the get go?


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## Israfil (Jul 6, 2008)

as far as i know the Time of Ending is new as of 5th ed. i think there will be a big change in the fluff, soon as all the game descriptions change to in the dark future of the "42 millennium". i think this may be a fluff possibility Star Child


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## CaptainBailean (Feb 20, 2008)

Who can really say? Personally I think that the Imperium is merely in a time of waning power immediately after the massive war that was the 13th Black Crusade. Even though the rule book does mention that the Imperium's power is faltering, it also mentions that more and more worlds are being ruled over by space marine chapter masters in an attempt to keep order. I don't think that the Imperium is going to die out, but simply change and potentially revert back to the combat and military organization of the pre-heresy and great crusade times as more and more Imperial leaders realize that the way their forces are restricted is beginning to impede the overall success of the Imperium's military might.


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## Ghengis Vaughn (Apr 18, 2009)

Those are both good points. However, I dont know if humanity could survive if the emperor were to fall. All of the Imperium's culture is built around him. Not to mention the only reliable way to travel through warp space. True, the Space Marines could hold out on their home worlds/systems pretty well but would they work together? From what I have read ( please note that I am not too savvy with SM fluff ) their chapters mainly keep to themselves. 
I could see the Imperial Guard splintering like cheap wood. All of the lord generals bickering amongst themselves and carving out small kingdoms while the "ordos" organizations perform mass executions trying to keep the high throne of Terra in line. 
While I think that would be catastrophic I don't believe that it would wipe out the human race. What WOULD wipe out the human race would be everything else. I would suspect Necrons and 'Nids to be the main culprits with the Orks taking large swaths as well. I would say chaos too but per Israfil they may be neutralized due to the star child.


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## normtheunsavoury (Mar 20, 2008)

I read an interview with the writers just before 5th came out and they said that "The Time of Ending" was simply a statement of how the Imperium was at the end of the 41st millenium. All the fluff, to date, has been based somewhere during the 10k years since the Horus Heresy and always done in a retrospective way. They wanted to express what was actually going on at the dawn of the 42nd millenium. 
So yes, it has always been that way but they just never really got round to writing much about it.

As for a big push towards 41k, I wouldn't hold your breath. If it ever happens it wont be for a bloody long time.


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## Ghengis Vaughn (Apr 18, 2009)

Ok, good. I was worried that I just got into a new game system and then it was going to be turned on its ear


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Its just to give you this feeling of impeding doom of humanity, to make you feel more heroic when you play marines/ig, stuff like that...Besides, if GW wouold bancrupt, they could do it in a subtle manner of writing "and so, humanity fell, bla bla everything destroyed, THE END."


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

OMG what would we do if GW went Bankrupt and all the money I spent on there models is null and void, Oh crap, Im throwing my money away :angry:


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Well players would just use the existing material and improve uppon it by themselves, making the rules damn awesome and balanced, and use proxy models xD, yeh, i think we would be better off.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Here thee, here thee :shout: the time is nigh :shok: the end times are here :scare:. Read your Codexes :read: and Blac Library books, the signs are there :rtfm:. So listen citizen of the faithful :secret:, drink thy rum :drinks:, party it up:yahoo:, drink some more uke:, play thy games :gamer2:, drink again :alcoholic:, and go insane :headbutt: till you work up the courage to blow your head off :suicide:. 

(Scurries to a dark corner) Yes, yes, send your souls to that corpse of a god, soon his empire will crumble along with his lies, and we will rule :king: whats left :spiteful:.



Seriously the Emperors empire is crumbling, Hive fleets and Ork Hordes claim Imperial worlds everyday, Chaos raze and burn, and Necrons wipe out civilizations. Whats the High Lords doing about? Nothen. Theres not enough SMs in the Galaxy to hold this joke of a empire together.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

MyI)arkness said:


> Well players would just use the existing material and improve uppon it by themselves, making the rules damn awesome and balanced, and use proxy models xD, yeh, i think we would be better off.



Maybe but it be hard to get together for fun turnaments :cray:.


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## col44mag (Mar 30, 2008)

The answer is simple. DRAMA. Thats why soap opera's do so well. Without conflict you have little to no story and an almost meaninless reason to play. The waxing and waning of power is the easiest plot device to push forward a narrative


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## tssxxx (Feb 5, 2008)

Its just propoganda from GW, all they are trying to do is make a good story line that makes you feel like it is real, but at the same time using that to still your life savings.:shok:


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## primarch-angron (Mar 12, 2009)

I have heard this before from a big fluff fan and he told me this along time before the 5th was released. What i heared was that it was starting to break down and all the emperors servents where panicing because only the emperor knows how to fix it.


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## World Eater XII (Dec 12, 2008)

well he might just get off his golden toilet and put some "no more nails" on it...


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## Fallen Angel Sammael (Jun 18, 2009)

Cypher will turn the golden throne off and the emperor will be reborn again... send a physic wave out and awake the primarchs or make them return to their fathers side. Will also make all the primarch deamon princes out of the eye of terror


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## MyI)arkness (Jun 8, 2008)

Isnt emperor a skeleton barely "alive" on that throne, missing one hand too:S


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## Ghengis Vaughn (Apr 18, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> Isnt emperor a skeleton barely "alive" on that throne, missing one hand too:S


Yeeeeeah, the ol emperor isn't looking quite as good as he used too. He needs to moisturize


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## Eclipse41970 (Jul 17, 2009)

I think this is a allogory to the fall of the Roman Empire. I can Space Marine (aka Space Kinghts) holding sway over large tracts of space a lords. Chapter Master King other Marines as his vassels and the I.G. as cannon fodder. Warp travel will be limited but not impossible ( Dark Age of Tech) Smaller Jumps longer time reaching goals. Fluff wise it takes years even centuries for Imperial response. Just my thoughts


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## bazle (Sep 24, 2008)

i like the star child idea especially after reading the draco books, the primarchs loyal and living return and the fun starts (ties losely to the cabals prediction in the alpharius book) AND all this coincides with the last of the heresy novels being released........just a hopefull wish...sigh


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## SpacedGhost (Dec 16, 2008)

The Tyranids will end up assimilating it all in the end. They are the creeping doom. Orks aren't organized enough to do much of anything and war with themselves as easily as anyone else; Chaos would lose their main source for additional bodies without the Imperium to corrupt; Necrons' living metal probably makes for sweet assimilation for the 'nids; Eldar and Dark Eldar numbers already falter; the tau, well who cares about the tau - the greater good might make for good seasoning to the 'nids though; and the Imperium is spread too thin fighting all of the above to "win." The walls are closing in on the Imperium, but pretty much always have been. As others have stated it's part of the drama of 40k.

Everyone's situation is grim-dark in the grim-dark future. And everyone in the future is delicious grim-dark DNA for the 'nids.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MyI)arkness said:


> Isnt emperor a skeleton barely "alive" on that throne, missing one hand too:S


If I remember from the account in Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, The Emperor lost an Eye, Had his back Broken, Lost a hand, among loads of other major injuries inflicted by Horus.

So yes physically he is little more than a deformed skeleton!



Ghengis Vaughn said:


> I dont know if humanity could survive if the emperor were to fall.


Indeed the moment the Emperor dies, Humanity will be automatically enslaved to Chaos:



Chaos Daemons Codex Page 24 said:


> There is but one reason why Mankind has not already plunged into a nightmare age of slavery to the Dark Gods of Chaos - the Emperor...
> 
> The Immortal Emperor of Makind is the shield and saviour of humanity. He has sat, held immobile within the Golden Throne, for 10,000 years. Through his powerful mind and the unconquerable might of his will, the Emperor shields humanity from the worst depredations of Chaos...
> 
> It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition, or even if he has survived at all. Who can know how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is finally broken, or his mind is torn apart by insanity? Such a fate is best not contemplated, for without the Emperor's protection, Mankind would be scattered and alone in the darkness, utterly helpless before the dark temptations of Chaos. Humanity's damnation would bring about the victory of the Dark Gods and the Realm of Chaos would engulf the galaxy.


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## SpacedGhost (Dec 16, 2008)

I don't particularly disagree, Child-of-the-Emperor, but you can't necessarily take everything each codex says in their fluff literally. Every codex is written from the perspective of the codex in such a way that makes each of them sound like the sweetest army ever. Each written in a style that is exactly what GW thinks the players of the army's really want to hear.

Of course the Imperium would fall when the Emperor dies. They're already losing as it is. With or without the Emperor they're doomed. Don't cheer just yet, heretic, you're screwed too when Humanity falls. The engines of Chaos won't turn without people to enslave and corrupt. They'll certainly slow without such an abundant source as humans to seduce into darkness. It's not going to be one big Chaos party after humanity falls. Doomrider isn't going to throw a rock concert with some daemonettes singing back up. Khorne doesn't seem like the type of god to reward his loyal human subjects with anything other than making them part of his throne after they're no longer useful. The walls will close in on the just and unjust alike.


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## Sejanus (Jul 23, 2009)

ok ive only read the horus heresy series and its only up to the part where the dark angels have a falling out so wat happened to horus wen he and the emporer fought?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Sejanus said:


> ok ive only read the horus heresy series and its only up to the part where the dark angels have a falling out so wat happened to horus wen he and the emporer fought?


Were no way near that far in the Horus Heresy Series yet by-the-way 

But generally Terra gets basically destroyed, the Chaos Forces make it right the way to the Inner Palace, the Emperor is helpless as he is forced to sit on the Golden Throne to seal the Imperial Webway (And thus prevent the Imperial Palace and Terra being flooded with Daemons).

Eventually Horus lowers the shields on his Flagship for some unknown reason (We are given several conflicted reasons at-the-mo, but im gonna wait until the HH novels reach that far until making a judgement). The Emperor temporarily tasks Malcador the Sigillite with taking to the Golden Throne and holding the Imperial Webway closed whilst he, Dorn, Sanguinius and a contingent of Custodes teleport upon Horus' flagship. Sanguinius finds Horus first and is slaughtered. The Emperor then comes upon Horus, and a titanic duel ensues. Horus holds the advantage the entire fight, crippling the Emperor whilst recieving next to no injuries himself. Anyways to cut a long story short, the Emperor unleashes his full psychic might (some argue that this is the Star Child which he releases) and utterly obliterates Horus' soul.



SpacedGhost said:


> Of course the Imperium would fall when the Emperor dies. They're already losing as it is. With or without the Emperor they're doomed. Don't cheer just yet, heretic, you're screwed too when Humanity falls. The engines of Chaos won't turn without people to enslave and corrupt. They'll certainly slow without such an abundant source as humans to seduce into darkness. It's not going to be one big Chaos party after humanity falls. Doomrider isn't going to throw a rock concert with some daemonettes singing back up. Khorne doesn't seem like the type of god to reward his loyal human subjects with anything other than making them part of his throne after they're no longer useful. The walls will close in on the just and unjust alike.


I would say it depends on the circumstances at the time. I mean Chaos wouldnt attempt to totally eradicate humanity - their not stupid, they know without humanity they would just weaken themselves. They would enslave humanity not destroy it.

Anyhow the current Status Quo of the Galaxy is entirely favourable to Chaos. The Chaos Gods are currently dominant anyway.


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## Dar'kir (Jul 11, 2009)

i have to agree with MyI)arkness


MyI)arkness said:


> Its just to give you this feeling of impeding doom of humanity, to make you feel more heroic when you play marines/ig, stuff like that...


GW would never make humanity lose, or at least not in the complete sense. they will probalbly always putter along on the edge, but never all the way. its just how the 4ok universe will always be.


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

While what you think will happen all depends on if you believe the whole Star Child thing, or that when the Emperor dies his soul will neutralize Chaos and everyone will have one last big fight for control which Orks or Nids kind of have the upper hand in with their nearly limitless numbers, but knowing GW humanity will win.


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## Col. Schafer (Apr 15, 2008)

Fun fact! The survival of the imperium is not at all dependent on the emporer! :shok:

The astronimican acording to the imperiums understanding functions by releasing the souls of psykers to fuse with the emporer as to preserve him. Ie: offing them in his presence. 

In fact, where you do it has no efect whatsoever (other than screwing its use as a navigational instrument)! The fact that they slaughter thousands of psykers every day in the same place is what keeps the thing going, what everyone in the imperium thinks is the emporers "light" is in fact the death cries of 10,000 times X000 psykers over the course of the astronomicans existance. 

Therefore I hold that the imperium in the face of the emporer getting screwed over somehow would hold out long enoughf to realise they can keep the navigational properties of the astronimican functioning, get realy fucking mad that their god got fucked, give every man woman and child a lasgun, and fuck the hell out of whoever fucked the emporer. Then everyone else.

Then the star child would show up. And all shit would hit the fan for everyone other than the imperium.


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

I agree, i mean we all know that GW won't let the Imperium ever die. They'll just let it kill everything else. Then after everything non-Imperial in the galaxy is dead, they leave the galaxy and try to find where the Nids' originate from and destroy those mindless SOBs


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## scolatae (Aug 25, 2008)

SpacedGhost said:


> The Tyranids will end up assimilating it all in the end. They are the creeping doom. Orks aren't organized enough to do much of anything and war with themselves as easily as anyone else; Chaos would lose their main source for additional bodies without the Imperium to corrupt; Necrons' living metal probably makes for sweet assimilation for the 'nids; Eldar and Dark Eldar numbers already falter; the tau, well who cares about the tau - the greater good might make for good seasoning to the 'nids though; and the Imperium is spread too thin fighting all of the above to "win." The walls are closing in on the Imperium, but pretty much always have been. As others have stated it's part of the drama of 40k.
> 
> Everyone's situation is grim-dark in the grim-dark future. And everyone in the future is delicious grim-dark DNA for the 'nids.


Get stuffed the greater good will slaughter your "bio crusade":biggrin:


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## SpacedGhost (Dec 16, 2008)

scolatae said:


> Get stuffed the greater good will slaughter your "bio crusade":biggrin:


You're right, the Tau got this. The fishheads will rescue the galaxy from all the evils abound.


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