# SM rumours, BoLS -May 31st- Implications for 5th edition



## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

Took a gander and noticed no one has posted this yet. Please feel free to close if I missed a duplicate....
I posted this here on 5th edition as I feel it makes a big impact on how marine armies will deal with the new 5th edition rules....

_*Hi guys,

We have heard these whispers on the wind regarding the upcoming Space Marine Codex and minis:

The "Big Gun" the techmarine can get is called a Thunderfire Cannon and it's aesthetically a throwback to the old Thudd gun. The model is very Adeptus Mechanicus looking. Huge tracks with a quad barreled gun. The techmarine operator is looking up with a controller in his hands. His servo harness has reversed arms with the flamer and plasma on top. The left servo arm holds a "quick reload" of four shells and a single shell is in the other.

An Ultramarine Tank commander special character is coming that appears in two versions. One for putting in your tank and one on foot. He has a bare head and a helmeted head that looks like a Mk3 helmet. Rules are unknown.

The Land Raider will now be one unified kit that makes the three variants. The sponsons have larger armor coverings for the Crusader's Hurricane bolters and the Redeemer's Inferno cannons. The Reedemer has two inferno cannons and twin-linked assault cannons. There are revised frag-assault launchers for Crusader and Redeemer; angled to be pointing forward, not the 45 degrees upwards like the current ones are. The Inferno cannons are modeled as huge, over sized heavy flamers, similar to an upscaled version of the Forgeworld siege dreadnought variant.

Power of the Machine Spirit rule allows Land Raiders to move 6" and fire all their guns.

Scout bikes are slightly smaller than the standard marine bikes but use the same tires. They have small front fenders that only cover the top and back of the tire. There is no trim on the handlebar canopy and the riders are like the plastic scouts. The scout bikes are covered in gear including a big shotgun holster mounted on the front forks.

The land speeder has been re-cut to make it easy to assemble without clamping. The sides are separate pieces and all the bits for variants are on the sprue now. It looks like you get some extra heads on the sprue as well.

Pedro Cantor has a powerfist and a stormbolter mouted like a greyknight on his other wrist. He's kinda leaping sidways firing the SB. There is a belt feed for the SB going to his backpack. He has a mk7 helmet.

There is an Ultramarine scout vet. sergeant who's bald with a beard, armed with a bolter and another Ultramarine special character captain who's an homage to the old Ultramarine captain model (with the transverse plume on his helmet and a gladius).
*_

Of all these bits, I am most excited about this.

*Power of the Machine Spirit rule allows Land Raiders to move 6" and fire all their guns.*


If this is true, along with the "confirmation" of 2x Inferno Cannons, I think its time to raise a glass to the Landraider, because its coming back in a BIG WAY!

I think its rather a big surprise given the direction GW has gone with the vehicles in 5th....

If PotMS overrules the vehicle movement and fire rules [ and no mention of a BS penalty for spirit]

I will take my 2x existing raiders and buy a Redeemer for my army's standard units for heavy support!

A great looking model would finally start living up to its fluff!


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Sons of Russ said:


> *Power of the Machine Spirit rule allows Land Raiders to move 6" and fire all their guns.*


Nononononono! What the hell is GW doing? This pretty much makes the landraider immune to crew shaken/stunned AND allows it to break the new vehicle rules regarding firing and moving! :ireful2:


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## Dezartfox (Jan 19, 2008)

The landraider is the symbolic vehicle of the spacemarines, only right it's the best of the best..

Let all those little kids wast their £40 on a model we can kill in first turn ;0


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

But who says SM are the best of the best hmm? :mrgreen:


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

Cadian81st said:


> Nononononono! What the hell is GW doing? This pretty much makes the landraider immune to crew shaken/stunned AND allows it to break the new vehicle rules regarding firing and moving! :ireful2:


Who said it was going to be immune to shaken and stunned? If just giving it the move and shoot ability at normal BS is all it does then the LR will still suffer shaken/stunned.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

That's what power of the machine spirit does though, allows it to still function when the crew is unable.


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## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

It's what it does *now*. It may change to only doing this fire all guns thing, which would be fine really.

I feel sad for normal LRs though. Looks like the crusader and infernothingy will be far better.


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## Bishop120 (Nov 7, 2007)

Personally Im hoping that they change it to only the move and shoot rule. The shaken/stunned one kinda does nothing for me.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I hate this kind of stuff. There has been none of this officialy confirmed by GW bar maybe the characters and each rule thread I see for 5th states different things. Wait til it comes out coz until then we won't know anything. And just because people saw it already doesn't mean its finalised. The BA codex in white dwarf ws finalised but the downloadable one is different in several ways. Don't be saying anything is guaranteed yet as they can change between the first draft and the finished product


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

> Nononononono! What the hell is GW doing? This pretty much makes the landraider immune to crew shaken/stunned AND allows it to break the new vehicle rules regarding firing and moving!


What, you are surprised that the poster boys will have exceptions to the rules that no other army will?


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Someguy said:


> It's what it does *now*. It may change to only doing this fire all guns thing, which would be fine really.
> 
> I feel sad for normal LRs though. Looks like the crusader and infernothingy will be far better.


Fair point, but as the rules stand _now_, what I said earlier is still true.


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

I find it rather funny that GW introduce this new rule that will affect a lot of tanks.... and then promptly break it again for their pin-up boys, while leaving everyone else in the cold. Chaos LRs with demonic possession and loyal LRs are about equivalent atm, for points and effects. But then loyals get 2 better variants and now this? being able to roll slowly forward while pouring out fire is what tanks are supposed are for. Reserving that for only loyal LRs and no others....yeah, wraith had it right, blatant favouritism. 

I suppose I'll wait to see what rules actually pan out. Not like there's much else I could do anyway.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

maddermax said:


> I find it rather funny that GW introduce this new rule that will affect a lot of tanks.... and then promptly break it again for their pin-up boys, while leaving everyone else in the cold. Chaos LRs with demonic possession and loyal LRs are about equivalent atm, for points and effects. But then loyals get 2 better variants and now this? being able to roll slowly forward while pouring out fire is what tanks are supposed are for. Reserving that for only loyal LRs and no others....yeah, wraith had it right, blatant favouritism.
> 
> I suppose I'll wait to see what rules actually pan out. Not like there's much else I could do anyway.


Welcome to 40k. Enjoy your stay.


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## Engelus (Jul 26, 2007)

maddermax said:


> I find it rather funny that GW introduce this new rule that will affect a lot of tanks.... and then promptly break it again for their pin-up boys, while leaving everyone else in the cold. Chaos LRs with demonic possession and loyal LRs are about equivalent atm, for points and effects. But then loyals get 2 better variants and now this? being able to roll slowly forward while pouring out fire is what tanks are supposed are for. Reserving that for only loyal LRs and no others....yeah, wraith had it right, blatant favouritism.
> 
> I suppose I'll wait to see what rules actually pan out. Not like there's much else I could do anyway.


well, how many points is it in comparison to Monoliths? this is only fair if you ask me, 265 points is a whole lot for a tank that can do nothing.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

remember it is only a rumour. no confirmation on it yet....


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

yes but consider how these ' rumour threads ' are nearly 80 - 90 % of the time accurate


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

yes but there's always that 10 - 20% where they're wrong. I've seen several different rumours about tank movement so this one could be wrong.


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## Cadian81st (Dec 24, 2006)

Engelus said:


> well, how many points is it in comparison to Monoliths? this is only fair if you ask me, 265 points is a whole lot for a tank that can do nothing.


Says the black templar player. :mrgreen:

Seriously though, a high points cost shouldn't justify rules breakage. I don't care how expensive your tank costs, it can't blatantly defy the rules to make up for a higher probability of destruction at the hands of the enemy. That's just the risk you take bringing one to the table.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I heard that whwn moving there's a penalty to ballistisc skill, one that they're not changing it and another one where they're recategorising main and defensive weapons So i dunno whats happening now:angry:

Also With the new LOS rules(confirmed) Do they have allowances for ornately posed models? Several HQ's of mine ar at least 3mm taller than every other model which means they're gonna be screwed


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## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

Lord Reevan said:


> I heard that whwn moving there's a penalty to ballistisc skill, one that they're not changing it and another one where they're recategorising main and defensive weapons So i dunno whats happening now:angry:
> 
> Also With the new LOS rules(confirmed) Do they have allowances for ornately posed models? Several HQ's of mine ar at least 3mm taller than every other model which means they're gonna be screwed


basically, youre screwed. its not a bit deal tbh, as anything partially obscured gets a 4+ cover, so you'll be fine.

the rulebook doesnt legislate for every eventuality, and leaves alot to the opinion/judgement of the players.

the new SM models are lovely btw.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I've seen some and they do but I have shrike, A chaplain with jump pack, 3 HQ's with a base on a base(looks great and helpful for area effect:biggrin And they're all bigger than everything else. I didn't know about the cover save so it might be alright... Do you know if single larger models can be picked out?


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## carpediem833 (Jun 6, 2008)

Yes, its only a rumor, but if you think about it, its the only vehicle in the 40k Universe (besides a monolith) with 14 armour all around. Ignores Bright Lances. Etc. Even a Reaver Titan doesn't have 14 armour all around... So naturally it gets some bendy rules...


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## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

I'm niether here nor there about the new SM codex they have lost my favouritr thing, the traits but it will be new and shiny.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Cadian81st said:


> But who says SM are the best of the best hmm? :mrgreen:


EVERYTHING written about the space marines.


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## fenrir31 (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh yeah time to break out my land raiders


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## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

fenrir31 said:


> Oh yeah time to break out my land raiders



not if the Redeemer's "super-flamer" rumour is true.....

No way am I paying 250+ pts for a non scoring vehicle that uses regular flamer templates. I was really happy when I heard that it had Inferno Cannons... 

but now that's in doubt, especially with the whole "AP3" thing.

I would have taken AP5 inferno cannons on that thing, but not ap3 , non-ranged flamer templates, that's just laughable....

IF this happens, I will go down to my nearest GW and innocently ask why I should buy a Redeemer.....pure entertainment....


"Hey, lets go fry those Fire Dragons over there.....woops....":laugh:


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

Hmmmmm...first the Chaos Land raider dont have machine spirit in the latest codex , and now the loyalist ones have a special rule!!! for the same cost!!!! WHO wrote this Codex???? WHO?

Lord Reevan > LoL, i am a farseer, i glued my Terminator Lord on his base without the "chaos" rock 3 month ago ^^


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Dies Irae said:


> Hmmmmm...first the Chaos Land raider dont have machine spirit in the latest codex , and now the loyalist ones have a special rule!!! for the same cost!!!! WHO wrote this Codex???? WHO?
> 
> Lord Reevan > LoL, i am a farseer, i glued my Terminator Lord on his base without the "chaos" rock 3 month ago ^^


See, that's good thinking.

I'm just bordering on saying "Counts as" for my entire chaos army. I don't mind the game and I know spess mehreins will always have an advantage, but when an entirely new edition is written for the sole purpose of their abuse, it crosses a line.

I really do miss the special rule the chaos land raider had going for it. Not terribly useful, but very flavorful.


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

remember though. rumours only for now.... All I have to do is make all my tanks several mm taller and 'm grand:biggrin:


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> See, that's good thinking.
> 
> I'm just bordering on saying "Counts as" for my entire chaos army. I don't mind the game and I know spess mehreins will always have an advantage, but when an entirely new edition is written for the sole purpose of their abuse, it crosses a line.
> 
> I really do miss the special rule the chaos land raider had going for it. Not terribly useful, but very flavorful.


This codex is NOT,ABSOLUTELY NOT, the chaos legions, it is renegade loyalist scum, they will not have the same equipment as either other faction.


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## Alaric (Jun 10, 2008)

no the land raider is CONFIRMED I HAVE A PICTURE and the stats are STR6 AP3


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## Dies Irae (May 21, 2008)

OMG this thing will NEVER get close to my Marines!!! 8 Lascanons + 5 twin linked lascannons should be enought( 2 havocs squads + 2 Land Raiders + dreadnought)

Just a question on this LR: will it embark troops???

-Yes: GW is really crazy, where are the oil tanks???? how can this thing shoot? If he can embark troops, so the Hellhound can!

-No: why is there frag grenades on the front door?


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## Alaric (Jun 10, 2008)

it will carry just as much as a crusader. and its an assault tank and thats a good number of lascannons you got there hahah you are iron warriors ig uess that would mean you have a crap load of lascannons


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## Bael (Jun 13, 2008)

*New Sm codex*

So what would the new sm do to the BT,DA, and BA ?
:shok:


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

I'd say they make FAQ's for them. unless they remake the BT codex soon which I kinda doubt.


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## Bael (Jun 13, 2008)

And the new defencive weapons s4 rule is going to hurt landspeeders, My Baal Preds ect...


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## Lord Reevan (May 1, 2008)

It's going to be a major bitch to every army and vehicle. Apart from nids


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## EldarWolf (Jun 10, 2008)

Alaric said:


> no the land raider is CONFIRMED I HAVE A PICTURE and the stats are STR6 AP3


Yes but according to senior shop staff it's Str6 AP3 Heavy Flamer, not Inferno Cannon.


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## ewokz750 (Jun 16, 2008)

Gotto say some of the the new marine stuff looks great :biggrin:


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## dan1986 (Jun 12, 2008)

The land raider looks awesome, its not good that it breaks all the new vehicle rules (well rumoured to anyway), and i'm pretty sure it will have the same transport as the crusader


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## Wykyd (Jun 15, 2008)

> And the new defencive weapons s4 rule is going to hurt landspeeders, My Baal Preds ect...


All space marines should invest in Whirlwinds and Vindicators for 5th edition. Best bang for buck.


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## Inquisitor Aurelius (Jun 9, 2008)

Son of mortarion said:


> This codex is NOT,ABSOLUTELY NOT, the chaos legions, it is renegade loyalist scum, they will not have the same equipment as either other faction.


Y'know, I've seen you espousing this viewpoint left, right and centre, and I'm curious: is there any actual evidence to back it up, or is it just wishful thinking? I've never heard it mentioned anywhere else, so I can't help but wonder...


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

If the flamers are not ranged, then the redeemer will have to get up close to be at full effect. That means in melta range, or for us nid players, Carnifex charge range. Even a Land Raider cant stand up to d6+2 S10 attacks, rolling 2D6 penetration :grin:


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Inquisitor Aurelius said:


> Y'know, I've seen you espousing this viewpoint left, right and centre, and I'm curious: is there any actual evidence to back it up, or is it just wishful thinking? I've never heard it mentioned anywhere else, so I can't help but wonder...


Go to bell of lost souls. In white dwarf a few months back the designers state that they meant this book to emphasize the renegades.


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## AzraelJahannam (Jun 28, 2008)

Hmmm... super killy Landraiders... tanks... big killy ones... Jump packs? Check! Meltabombs? Check! I wonder how many times I can trap a newbs terminator squad inside the burning hulk of his shattered land raider this year...


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## Fluff'Ead (Aug 22, 2007)

> the designers state that they meant this book to emphasize the renegades.


Yeah, some people pointed at WD 332 or 333 and there was a statement from JJ regarding the matter at a convention.
The funny thing is, apart from the fluff the entire codex is quite similiar to the first 3rd edition one.


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## Son of mortarion (Apr 24, 2008)

Fluff'Ead said:


> Yeah, some people pointed at WD 332 or 333 and there was a statement from JJ regarding the matter at a convention.
> The funny thing is, apart from the fluff the entire codex is quite similiar to the first 3rd edition one.


too true, this dex is set up the same way, where the dex is meant to represent one group, and taking selected units will proxy the rest.


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