# Kairos Fateweaver?



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Hey everyone.

I'm getting together my Daemon Army and I was just looking for some thoughts, opinions and tactics for *Kairos Fateweaver*.

I'm having a tough time deciding a MC HQ to go along with my two Heralds (one of whom is Skulltaker on a Chariot). I was thinking Bloodthirster, but it's very one dimensional, as are the Keeper of Secrets and Great Unclean Ones, whereas Tzeencth MC's can multi-task and as I'm not taking a Daemon Prince (x2 Soul Grinders), I'm thinking he could fill a tactical gap.

Here are some questions I have:


1. Does anyone use him or has faced him and if so how does/did he perform?

2. At what points cost does he become a viable option, 1000, 1500 or 2000pts? (He costs low 300pts)

3. How does he compare in your opinion to a Lord of Change?

4. Is it just me or is the so called 'Fatecrusher' tactic crap? If you agree, how best do think is 6" re-roll save ability should be used?

5. As I can use this army is Warhammer, is he any good in that setting?

6. What do you think of the *model* vs a Lord of Change

7. *Your* fluff comments about him: do you like his fluff, fluffy uses in games, etc


Now I'm a fluff player, and I love the fluff on this guy. His backstory and instances of his uses (in Warhammer particularly) sound awesome. Also as I'm playing multi-God, he is a great HQ choice along with x2 Heralds, as he could easily manipulate an alliance. (Also my lack of any Nurgle will be fluffy too!!!)

Also ... I really really really love the idea of BOON OF MUTATION. I know it rarely works, but it can be used in CC (even though he kind of sucks at it), but I was just thinking, keeping list of people he mutates would be an awful lot of fun. Plus, I play my nephews Tau alot and that means he can get alot of help in CC by turning Fire Warriors into spawm (not that he would need the help now that I think about it). It just seems like it would be a power to have a good laugh with (yes even in tournaments) and he gets to use it 3 times a turn, along with having all the other Tzeentch powers.

Overall I'm just looking for some help on whether or not to go out and buy this model. So, feel free to answer the questions I have (I hope some of you do), but also I'd just like some discussion about the model, tactically, fluffily and aesthetically etc.

I'll hand out some +rep for good/interesting posts.

Thanks.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

My own views on Fateweaver is as follows:

I like his fluff. Although I prefer the fantasy interpretation where each head sees differently.

The benefits of him over a normal LoC is that he has all the powers as standard but struggles in his statline and can run off thefield after taking a wound.

Performance wise the LoC has an advantage of a bloodthirster that is harder to take down but does not hit as hard. Whereas Fateweaver likes to sit back as far away as possible from harm and fly stuff out from there.

Model wise I don't like it. The standard LoC boxset has 2 heads as standard making the whole release pointless. A good conversion I once saw before Fateweaver was released was that the necks and wings off the standard LoC (But not the heads) with those off the Galrauch model. The eye sockets were left black to indicate blindess but even better was that it could also represent a normal LoC in lower point games.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

There is a nasty tournament level army based around fateweaver: the FateCrusher list should be pretty obvious from the name with lots of bloodcrushers surrounding fateweaver to make best use of his rules (mebbe a bloodthirster too).

I have been allied to him before, played him once or twice and watched a lot of his games... I think he is pretty awesome but probably not worth his points unless running fatecrusher... but either way he is very annoying to get rid of and quite comic.
Everytime I see him on the board I'm waiting for the single las/bolt pistol shot from a random place to kill him (preferably after a whole gunline of heavy weapons have just done nothing to him).


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Game-wise, he is too expensive below 2k, and even then...eh. He is too fragile: T5? 3W?!?!
And yes, FateCrusher is Noob-Hammer. Wins big, or bursts into flames quickly.

When I see Weaver in 40k, I lol (inside, be rude otherwise) and prepare to table the foe.

Then I advise Tzeralds instead.

Fluff-wise, he's quite cool, but hard to be themeatic with him. 

In WFB I gather he's fairly good, but not incredible in 8e.

Model is ok, but I've seen better conversions.

Last time I played him, it DID take a couple (4?) turns to nuke him, but the army crumbled when I did. Easy KP win, because I was Eldar and they never got to charge me.


----------



## mynameisgrax (Sep 25, 2009)

1. I used him and have played against him, and in both cases he performed well, although he was mainly in a support role, to give everyone the re-roll to saves. He was also great for drawing high strength attacks away from everything else in the army. That's really what makes fatecrusher so devastating. (more on this in a second)

2. I wouldn't use him in anything less than an 1850 tournament. Anything smaller and he takes up far too many points in the list.

3. I think he's a lot better than a Lord of Change. The Lord of change is really just an overpriced Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, with slightly better stats. I'd much rather have two heralds of tzeentch chariots than a LoC.

4. Fatecrusher can be very devastating, as long as everything deep strikes in fine, and you have enough bolts to bring down fast transports (or at least hold them in place). Bloodcrushers backed up by Kairos are incredible, especially since Kairos himself will probably be the target of most of your opponent's high strength shooting, allowing your bloodcrushers to get into close combat unscathed. That said, if anything goes wrong with deep striking, or your opponent can keep out of close combat, then the strategy might not work at all.

5. I'd say he's actually better in Fantasy. His amazing array of spells makes him one of the only greater daemons I'd actually consider using (the only other one is the great unclean one).

6. Meh. It's alright, but expensive, and fairly generic. I wish they had him show a little more personality. He might as well be a statue.

7. I absolutely love his fluff. He is the daemon equivalent of a delusional paranoid, seeing conspiracy everywhere he looks, and always contradicting himself when asked for a straight answer.


----------



## angelXD19 (Feb 11, 2010)

I have used him before. he draws a lot of attention but he usually can take it. against him he is not that hard to beat. Considering i have psycannons,lash,pavane. just get him away from everyone or just ignore him.

comparing him to a Loc he is cheaper if you buy all the upgrades for a normal LoC

yes the fate crusher list is crap. it's to slow to do anything and if you have speed/ high armor your fine

in fantasy he is pretty damn good considering he gets all the lores of magic.

for his model i HATE HATE HHAAATTEEE it. it's so damn ugly and just stupid looking


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks for the replys so far guys (I always worry when starting topics about very specific things) but keep those comments and opinions coming.

I'll post more about this in the Tactic/Army list section, but while I have this thread started:

I'm currently looking my army list for Daemons and here is my thinking.

Fateweaver (330+pts  )

LOC + Everything (365pts) 

With Fateweaver you get everything for around 30pts less than asking price, and get a re-rollable Invulnerable Save that has a 6" range.

But for those 30pts extra on the LOC, you get, winning combats that are draws (thanks to instrument, this could actually be useful on a Tzeentch MC), better Initiative, Toughness, Wounds, Attacks, Weapon Skill, AND you don't possibly die after one wound.

My question is (along with the others), if I'm going to spend that number of points, should I just get a damned LOC ? He will be beastly to be honest and I could create my own fluff.

What do you think?

(Also I actually had another look at the Fateweaver model and I looove it. I'm still curious what you all think of it too, but if I was in a tournament would people mind if I was using the Fateweaver model as being a regular LOC do you think?)


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

mynameisgrax said:


> 1. I used him and have played against him, and in both cases he performed well, although he was mainly in a support role, to give everyone the re-roll to saves. He was also great for drawing high strength attacks away from everything else in the army. That's really what makes fatecrusher so devastating. (more on this in a second)


Never understand why people fire high S weapons at mid T models with excellent inv saves... anyone firing something heavier then a heavy bolter at fateweaver is just wasting their time (its all about weight of shot, not quality when dealing with a 3++ rerollable save). Small arms are probably the best thing to kill him with... hell Tau would probably be laughing (I've only ever seen him killed by small arms fire- best, funniest instance was striking scorpions killing him turn 1 of a 12k apoc game by taking 1W with their pistols).


If you do use a LoC don't pile on the upgrades- pick one or two that you really want and try to keep the points down... they really are't worth it. If you want shooting get HoT chariots, fast combat get a bloodthirster or slow combat get a GUO. Hell even the keeper of scerets is probably better then the LoC.
On the other hand the model is beautiful (if insanely annoying to transport) and apparently if you annoy it by leaving it on a shelf and not playing with it they get really good... my LoC was ignored for about 8 months and when he did finally get a game he blew up a hammerhead at long range turn 1 (LMAO) and then proceeded to smash everything else (admittedly with 4 other MCs).


----------



## jaws900 (May 26, 2010)

D-A-C said:


> 1. Does anyone use him or has faced him and if so how does/did he perform?
> Never used or faced him so i can't say
> 
> 2. At what points cost does he become a viable option, 1000, 1500 or 2000pts? (He costs low 300pts)
> ...


Hope that helps somewhat


----------



## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

I've worked it out points wise and a LoC is 2 points more expensive that Fateweaver with everything except Boon of Mutation, as a bonus the LoC gets an Instrument of Chaos, which, given his lack of combat prowess might actually be useful.

That means you get extra Toughness, Wounds, Attacks, etc and you don't possibly die after one wound.

Overall I think they need to change his rules just a bit in his next iteration.

I'm definately getting the model at some point, as it is sweet!!! And I think it will compliment my Slaanesh Chariot Herald and Chariot Skulltaker really well.

It's now just a case of deciding at what points level it is useable.

I'm thinking 1750-2000.

Anyway, anyone else have an opinion of Kairos?


----------



## Midge913 (Oct 21, 2010)

Even though Fatecrusher is considered by some as noob-hammer, it is still a very effective tactic. As to Kairos himself there are plenty of other units in the list that do his job better, at cheaper points cost, and without the whole I run away like a pussy thing he has going on. If you are going to run anything other than a Fatecrusher list I would leave him at home, and take either a normal LoC with minimal upgrades, or HoT with chariots. The LoC just has a better stat line, and the HoT are cheap as dirt for what you get out of them. I would definitely leave him out of any list 1850 and lower. 

In Fantasy he is infinitely more useful, but you are going to pay out the ass for his points cost. He is a very accomplished wizard and adds a huge punch to your army in the magic department.


----------



## TheKingElessar (Mar 31, 2009)

Sorry Midge - I have to correct your terminology...you already know I disagree on effectiveness of FateCrusher - but it's a strategy.

Strategy is what you come up with irrespective of game and opponent, tactics are what you use situationally (eg, a Refused Flank is a tactic, because it's not an automatic pick, regardless of opponent.)


----------

