# Best use for defilers



## Sir Whittaker (Jun 25, 2009)

Just got my hands on a few (yes, a few) defilers. Trouble is I've never used one before. Any tips/tactics for how to get the best out of them (in both small games and large games with multiple defilers)? Blow chunks out my opponent from afar or get in close and mess 'em up? Thanks.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

They'll spend a whole game slowly snipping through a single squad of enemies on close combat (or a single turn being pounded into scrap by a power fist), while their battle-cannon can take out a same-sized squad a turn, if you're lucky.

Run them in pairs. Alone they get slaughtered, what with AV 12. Together...you can think about earning those points back.

That's what I've heard around here and learned for myself.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

Its true, never run just one. It gets targetting way too easy, especially since its such a big walker. Best way to load it out is just with its battle cannon and the rest CC arms. 

The last time I used them, they were pretty effective. In the first turn I let it take its battle cannon shot after 6 inch movement. 2nd turn depending one has gone on in the game, I'll either keep it shooting or send it forward toward an enemy tank. 

For example, in that game I had shot off the 2 battlecannons. The 2nd turn one of my defilers was close enough to move, run, and fleet to charge a tank (specifically a Vendetta) and killed it. The 2nd defiler I had still moved forward 6 inches, but shot its battlecannon. In the following turns one of my defilers lost its battlecannon, making it easier to choose what it should do and totally lost my other defiler.


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## KarlFranz40k (Jan 30, 2009)

Paperweight is a good use in my experience.


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## jasonfly (Feb 1, 2009)

use them as firemagnets. run them up and shoot at any targets that present themselves. Use them to draw attention away from other stuff and rip up tanks when you get close enough


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## deathbringer (Feb 19, 2009)

Paint em up,then dangle them out windows onto peoples heads like big gross chaotic spiders.

They are pretty shit in the game. 

EDIT: I apologise i meant large blast

Easy to kill, large blast with scatter just doesn't cut it for its points value. Pretty poor in combat due to low attacks as hits on 4+ or 5+ against marines. Hence they are easy to tie up and neutralise, or with a power fist destroy


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't understand where people are getting the "low number of attacks" from. With 2x CCWs it has 5 Attacks profile, with 6 on the charge. That's more than any other walker apart from the retarded BA ones with Blood Talons, and will happily mush 3 models a turn. Yes, the AV12 sucks a bit, but on the flip side you're Fleet and ignore Stunned and Shaken completely.

I also don't undertand the Small Blast reference... Battle Cannons are S8 AP3 Large Blast Ordnance weapons, if I remember correctly.

I think they're fine, especially if you run 2 or 3 of them and just charge. Without a lot of incredible luck your opponent is not going to stop them all before they hit combat - and if they do then it means that your Rhinos full of zerkers/plague marines are totally untouched.


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## Hesky (Aug 26, 2009)

Use a lash prince to gather an entire space marine squad into a huddle.. 

Then giggle maniacly as you unleash a MEQ killing pie plate into its ranks...

2's to die anyone? Muahahahahaa


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I give mine at least one other ranged weapon like the reaper auto cannon, since mine always seem to get immobilized, and weapon destroyed by the 2-3 turn (Damn AV 12). Also if you model the chassis lower to the ground you can fire them from behind rhino's, and still get a constant obscure effect (Making them more or less a slow fighty chaos version of a eldar tank). Other than that keep walking them forward supporting your advance, and if your lucky by time they have died or are able to get into combat range the rest of your force will have arrived at the enemies door step. Oh also don't be afraid to fleet rather then fire the BC if your sure you will be able to assault a valuable soft target. Also even though I hate to say so Sethis is right on the button about the high amount of attacks a defiler has compared to almost every other walker, hell those who play regular smurfs would kill to get a walker with potentially 6 attacks since theirs often have a max number 4-3 attacks.


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## Sethis (Jun 4, 2009)

LukeValantine said:


> Also if you model the chassis lower to the ground you can fire them from behind rhino's, and still get a constant obscure effect (Making them more or less a slow fighty chaos version of a eldar tank).


Careful with this one, as it's against the rules to model something in order to gain a gaming advantage. You can push it as low as it will go normally, but cutting up the legs/body in order to make it shorter is a big no-no.



LukeValantine said:


> regular smurfs would kill to get a walker with potentially 6 attacks since theirs often have a max number 4-3 attacks.


Space Marine dreadnaughts and Wraithlords have 3 attacks on the charge, and the Ironclad gets 4 (assuming they didn't give it the hurricane bolter). Also, "Crew Stunned" results will reduce their attacks still further, while the Defiler ignores them.

The only other comparable walker is the Ork Death Dredd with 4 CCWs, and it is neither Fleet, nor has a Battle Cannon, yet people take them anyway. I'd say the Defiler is the best combat walker in the game barring the BA Blood Talons stupidity. k:


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## b.anthracis (Nov 18, 2008)

In my last game I used 2 defiler and 1 vindicator. Since, like most people, my opponent perceived the vindicator as a high priority target and tried to kill it with it's AV13 and ignored the 2 defilers. Meanwhile my defilers were unmolested and shoot the crap out of his units.
Another list I used successfully contained 2 DP, 3 Dreadnaughts and 3 Defilers together with 3Rhinos full of berzerkers. And they were all rushing towards the enemy line. My opponent couldn't decide what to destroy first and than made some mistakes. It ended in a slaughter...but yeah this list can go terrible wrong with some lucky shots as well. But it is a funny and quite chaotic list


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## OddJob (Nov 1, 2007)

Sethis said:


> Careful with this one, as it's against the rules to model something in order to gain a gaming advantage.


What rules exactly? It might be a dick move, but modelling for advantage is certainly legal.


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## Aramoro (Oct 7, 2009)

The only reason to ever do it would be in a tourney and Modelling for advantage is almost always illegal in tournament rules. If you're doing it in casual games you really need to get out more. 

Aramoro


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## Dave T Hobbit (Dec 3, 2009)

Sethis said:


> Careful with this one, as it's against the rules to model something in order to gain a gaming advantage. You can push it as low as it will go normally, but cutting up the legs/body in order to make it shorter is a big no-no.





OddJob said:


> What rules exactly? It might be a dick move, but modelling for advantage is certainly legal.


In my experience, the ruling is usually based on 
(i) whether the change also creates a disadvantage
(ii) whether the idea behind the conversion is cool/fluffy/&c.

For instance, mounting the battle cannon turret on the front of the body instead of on top gives you a slightly lower profile but also reduces the Defiler's ability to see over taller things and - before the Brass Scorpion - was an uncommon but characterful change, so would probably be ruled as acceptable.

On the other hand, striping away all of the bodywork so only a Battle Cannon with three short claw/leg hybrids extending radially from it remains, gives you a huge advantage (profile) and - unless very well modelled - is not a brilliant new imagining of the form.

My own nine legged Defiler turned out to be slightly lower than a normal Defiler and lacks a body piece; however I have never had any problem as it was built as a Tzeentchian variation on the theme.


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## DarKKKKK (Feb 22, 2008)

b.anthracis said:


> Another list I used successfully contained 2 DP, 3 Dreadnaughts and 3 Defilers together with 3Rhinos full of berzerkers. And they were all rushing towards the enemy line. My opponent couldn't decide what to destroy first and than made some mistakes. It ended in a slaughter...but yeah this list can go terrible wrong with some lucky shots as well. But it is a funny and quite chaotic list


Yeah the Khorne rush with many rhinos and walkers list does work out the best for Defilers IMO. That kind of list to this day has seen the best performance out of both my Defilers and Dreads.


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## IntereoVivo (Jul 14, 2009)

I think the main things you want to take away from this thread are:

1) Use Defilers in pairs if at all. They look big and scary and a lone defiler will rarely make it past turn 2.

2) They are a viable choice as long as you remember that they are big and scary and your opponent WILL try to kill them. If you want them to survive, bring something scarier that will go higher on your opponent's target priority list.

3) While they can multi-task, it is probably best to pick a task for them and focus on it.

4) Finding a use that fits your play style will always be the best way for you to field them.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

I should clarify what I meant by model the chassis of the Defiler lower. You see if you actually just let the lower frame of the defiler almost touch the table (by barly letting letting the grab legs lift the body of the defiler model of the ground) you easily get 50% cover behind a rhino. Dick move yes, but last time I checked making something with flexible legs lower to the ground is not considered really remodeling something for a advantage. Still I guess it was kind a weird side effect of the way the model was made (Actually the only instance of it I can think of).

Still it really isn't that over powered since any none retarded opponent will see what your doing and just put their heavy weapon teams on the 2-3 floor of buildings in their deployment zone to negate the cover offered by the rhino.

Oh also I find defilers work best in either a group of 1 or 3, but oddly enough I find 2 just doesn't cut it since they lack the saturation fire ability of 3 and the maneuverability/fire magnet potential of 1. When I use 3 I tend to replace the lost fire power that say 3 predators or havoc's squads would produce with chosen in rhino's.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The important thing when using defilers is to give your opponant other things to think about. Landraiders and oblits or several troop full rhinos work well for this. 

keep your defillers away from cc other than with other vehicles, its far better to shoot your battlecannon in 90% of cases. I keep the heavy flamer on my defiler simply to flame any assault troops that get too close. 

Defilers are best used in games against horde armies as they can quicky reduce the size of big mobs, but even marines are scared of battlecannon shells. Keep your defiler in the best cover you can, and say BOOM everytime it fires


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## Blue Liger (Apr 25, 2008)

deathbringer said:


> Easy to kill, large blast with scatter just doesn't cut it for its points value. Pretty poor in combat due to low attacks as hits on 4+ or 5+ against marines. Hence they are easy to tie up and neutralise, or with a power fist destroy


Deathbringer when you say this I have to laugh due to the fact most units in CC hit on a 4+ against pretty much most units in armies lets see Defilers they hit on a 4+ against all SM, CSM, DE, WH, DH, NEC, ORKS, and alot of the NIDS and Daemons, leaving non CC specialised ELDAR and TAU that its hit on a 3+ and then the main thing it will hit on a 5+ is anything with a WS of 7 which is lets see most Eldar/DE combat HQ's and units like Daemon HQ's and that's it.

You can't really judge a unit that hits on a 4+ in CC and has 6 attacks on charge as bad in CC, yes most units hit it on a 3+ but it's usualy 1 model in a squad that can do the damage with about 2 attacks. 

I would never charge one into something like a SM commnader with powerfist or Terminators that's just asking for it to die!


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

Also its 150 bloody points for a battle cannon with support weapons. Seriously no one should be complaining about its low Initiative, and WS (Not even going to mention attacks since it has the most potential attacks of any walker), because you know it was in any other codex it would still be around 140 points with no crazy Str10 attacks in CC to defend itself at all.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

The defilers not bad in CC but you don't want it there simply as its potential to cause havok is so much reduce. the difiler is more than capable at defending itself as long as theres no melta bombs or fists around


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## Mentat (May 26, 2010)

I use 2 defilers with autocannons and havok launcher. I have several other autocannons in my army (usually 6 total) and the first couple of turns I target transports with all those ACs. Once some transports are opened up and there are troop targets, I use the defilers' battlecannons. In the last 3 games I have killed quite a few things with the battle cannons including 7 of 10 CSMs in one shot, an entire SM combat squad, a predator, and a razorback. They also killed a marine or two with every shot throughout the games. 

When they are hit with a weapon destroyed result the opponent invariably chooses the battle cannon, and then I have the autocannons and havoks which both have a long range. When firing the autocannons at a rhino, I also fire the havok because it rerolls scatter and glances on a 6, which has happened a couple of times over the course of several games.

I haven't lost a rhino in the past 3 games, mostly due to the enemy concentrating on the defilers and my crazy dreadnought. With daemonic possession, they ignore 1/3 of non-melta penetrating hits and I have found them quite survivable. I also try to keep them behind some cover.

They also counter charge anything that gets near the objectives on my side, or units that deep strike. I don't run them forward because they tend to get melta'd to death.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

I like to use them to balance out tables and chairs that have one leg that is smaller than the others.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

LordWaffles said:


> I like to use them to balance out tables and chairs that have one leg that is smaller than the others.


Wouldn't metal Dreadnoughts be better for that? Less prone to destruction?


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## Deathscythe4722 (Jul 18, 2010)

I run them with Battlecannon and 4xDCCW. March them toward an enemy vehicle, firing the Cannon at troops until you get into 6"Move-Fleet-6"Charge range. 

Try to avoid combat with Powerfist-equiped squads, but with a SM Sargeant hitting on 4s with only 2 attacks you will more often than not win the combat so long as you get the charge. If you get charged, start to worry.

Overall they work best in Zerker-Rhino heavy lists when used in 2s or 3s. For more less Khorney lists Oblits are a better option.


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## LukeValantine (Dec 2, 2008)

SM Sargeant's hit on 3+ vs defilers..... then they need 4+ to harm the defiler, so statistically they should generate 1 pen/glance on the charge, or .666 pen/glances if you assault them. However if the entire squad also attacks with krack grenades you will on average suffer .75 glances, and .666 pen/glances from the Sargent. In other words a 10 man SM squad will on average generate 1-2 results against your defiler in any round of combat, now this isn't as bad as it seams, since a difiler ignores 66.66 of all glances, and the other one of the remaining glance results won't overly bother a defiler. Forgot that grenades hit walkers on 6's I will adjust my statistical analysis shortly.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> Wouldn't metal Dreadnoughts be better for that? Less prone to destruction?


Yeah but the damn thing either shoots me or runs out of cover


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## Bloodcuddler of Khorne (Mar 22, 2010)

LukeValantine said:


> SM Sargeant's hit on 3+ vs defilers..... then they need 4+ to harm the defiler, so statistically they should generate 1 pen/glance on the charge, or .666 pen/glances if you assault them. However if the entire squad also attacks with krack grenades you will on average suffer .75 glances, and .666 pen/glances from the Sargent. In other words a 10 man SM squad will on average generate 1-2 results against your defiler in any round of combat, now this isn't as bad as it seams, since a difiler ignores 66.66 of all glances, and the other one of the remaining glance results won't overly bother a defiler.


I didn't think they could even use those grenades on it unless it was already immobilized, since it's a walker. Am I wrong about that?


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## Malgron (Jan 6, 2010)

They can each make 1 grenade attack hitting on 6's. If immobilized, they hit once using WS


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## Meshakhad (Apr 30, 2010)

They're artillery platforms that can do other things, and even defend themselves in close combat. At no point is a Defiler useless.


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