# Lizardmen/High Elves in 8th Edition? New player.



## Zaden

I'm looking for a little advice on starting WHF in 8th. I value fun a little over competitiveness, though both are important. I am looking for an army with a focus on magic, and am hoping to avoid painting a horde. I was thinking High Elves or Lizardmen. HE's seem to fit the bill, but maybe Lizardmen with not too many Skinks won't have a crazy amount of models? How have people been finding these armies in 8th? Also, do any other armies sound like a good fit? I played Brettonians a little in 5th/6th and found I wasn't a huge fan, though I did enjoy their magic. Also, if you think HE's will be played by most new players, I would rather avoid them, kind of like I have avoided SM's. I don't really want to play an army that shows up in 50% of games.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated! =)


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## Arli

With the boxed set coming out soon, you will see a rise in the number of HE players. I am a Lizardmen player and I love our magic. I will admit that HE magic is much stronger (being able to choose lore on everything and even spells with some items). The slann is probably the best overall caster in the game. If you focus on saurus, cold one cavalry, and temple guard you will have not trouble avoiding a horde army. Chameleons are now very good in 8th (Warmachine hunters that can start 12 inches from their target, march and shoot-still poisoning on 6s). Salamanders are also very good now. They can march and shoot as well. Plus, now, everything under the template gets hit. When fighting targets that are not immune to psychology, this is a huge advantage (any unsaved wound is a panic check). 
Skink skirmishers are still pretty good as well. They can march and shoot (although you have to be careful not to go over the 6 to hit or you will lose their jungle poisons). 

In my opinion, Lizardmen are the way to go.


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## rodmillard

I haven't played with my lizardmen yet this edition (not reallysure what to do with them atm), but here are some tips for high elves:

* I know you want to avoid a horde, but unfortunately the real strength of the HE army is in elite infantry, and with the 8ed metagame MSU is no longer viable. You need blocks at least 3 ranks deep to make sure you are still getting maximum attacks when you get into combat.
* IMO High elves are better off running multiple hero level mages to take advantage of multiple lores. I typically run one L2 using high magic and one L2 using one of the FBRB lores at 2000 points (with the silver wand that gives you access to 6 spells between them). If you are going to run an archmage then the staff of solidity has just shot up to "must have" in the list of priorities.
* Core. There's no nice way of saying it, but we got the thick end of the (spear)shaft in 8th ed. in 7th, you could run 2 minimum sized units of archers and bulk out elite units - now we have to spend 25% on core just like everyone else, and our army book has the most limited core section in the game. Spears, bows, or spears and bows (with or without shields). Whatever you do, between the minimum core and the need for big infantry blocks, you are looking at 80+ infantry in a 2000 point game.


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## Zaden

Thanks for the detailed advice guys. Have some rep.

I will also say that I tend to avoid special characters, so that seems to be another strike against High Elves, which seem to often include Teclis in a decent magic list. Still a tough choice though. 

More input would be greatly appreciated =)


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## VeronaKid

You have definitely picked two really good army choices based on what you said you wanted. Both Lizard and HE magic is, more than ever, the cream of the crop in 8th ed.

I wouldn't be so fast to discard the HE just because of the lack of core choices. Nearly all of the rule changes in 8th have directly benefitted HE players. Our spear blocks are more nasty than anyone else's, and bigger blocks of archers are now viable thanks to the volley fire rule. Phoenix Guard and Sword Masters are even more of a threat than before thanks to the fighting in extra ranks, and the HE magic items are now REALLY useful for magic defense against the uber-powerful lore spells.

I, for one, am a very happy 8th ed HE player. And, if I were to start another army tomorrow, I'd spring for Lizardmen. The Slann in a Temple Guard horde would be nigh unstoppable, and if coupled with a Skink Priest and an Engine of the Gods- oh my. That's a LOT of firepower to add to all the aforementioned jungle poison shooters and template creatures. So, in my opinion, you're golden either way.

Best of luck.k:


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## Zaden

Thanks for the comments Verona. I agree both armies seem to be a great fit. I think I will continue to research for a while before committing.


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## rodmillard

Don't get me wrong - I'm loving my HE army in 8th. But since Zaden said he didn't want a horde, and high elf core gets a bit samey after a while, its worth pointing out that he will have to paint lots of infantry. Having said that, I would probably get the IoB high elves even if I didn't have a HE army, just because they are such beautiful sculpts.

@Zaden - I wouldn't rule HE out just because you don't like special characters. Teclis may be a very powerful lord, but he is a points sink and liable to fall over in a strong wind, being T2 with no save of any kind. Give me a L4 archmage with the seerstaff (pick spells) and a 4+ ward any day of the week (should leave you with enough points spare for a basic combat Prince at 2500 points as well)


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## jigplums

both armies are very good with the new rules. I wouldn't worry too much about the fact highelves are in the new starter box, fantasy is no-where near as lopsided as 40k with regards to armys played. Think about it at the moment are there lots more orc and dwarf players then all the rest? not really

Thats not to say more armies aren't going to spring up. Sure they will, but lots of people are seeing this as a great excuse to start another army so have there other armies to fall back on.

Lizardmen are still great aswell. New lizard of the match for me salamanders, they are awesome under the new rules


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## needskonstruktion

From what I've read, Daemons Of Chaos should be good from your specifications. 
Daemons can be very competitive, if you play them to their strengths. Some things such as causing fear/hardly ever running away/etc aren't single game winning things, but when all of those little things add up, along with some amazing HQ/etc, they can be amazing. Losing combat can result in some of them vanishing from the game, and some spells can make enemies into allies, so they're fun to play - Coupled with the aggressive nature, they are fun to play.

Magic-wise, they're awesome in my opinion. They have a large variety of spells, some for injuring enemy units, effecting the battlefield, adding dice to the pool or strengthening allies. There are 3 lores of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh, that the respective followers can cast if they're wizards. The main wizards - Greater Daemons and Heralds, are also pretty nifty in CC, so they can have several roles. Khorne doesn't use magic of any sort, but with those units you can have some devastating QC fighters. Tzeentch's Pink Horror units count as a wizard each I believe, so you can deal out sorcery in a large variety of ways!!

Horde-wise, it can go either way. Two common setups that I have seen: 
Horde-
Large number of core, mixture of Bloodletters, Pink Horrors, Daemonettes and Plaguebearers, coupled with some heavy hitting elites and a good commander. Characters like Epidemus can really shine here, and it's a good play style to run. you will have to paint a lot of models (usually) however they are fun to paint  
Elite- 
Well, judging from what I've seen you'll favor this. You want some core, or course, I'd say medium sized squads of Plaguebearers and Bloodletters, maybe some horrors as you like magic. Then, you want some more elite things like Juggernauts and seekers. Now, you can have some really awesome units that are good in QC, but are also nice wizards. Maybe a Khorne greater daemon, as a unit up with the main battleline, coupled with a Tzeentch greater Daemon, using a myriad of good magic, both supporting and aggressive.


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## Gigantor

Zden, I think you should play lizardmen for 3 reasons. 1) fairly easy to paint them(just like your nids) 2) I'm afraid of high elves and the ASF. My chaos wouldn't enjoy that at all 3) A couple of battalion boxes and a stegadon make a decent army

and the final reason is that if your played HE, I'd wanna buy the new starter set and trade you for your skaven and I don't think my wife would like that!!!


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## Bindi Baji

I tend to think lizardmen would fit better with you as well and they work very well with the latest ruleset


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## Zaden

Gigantor said:


> Zden, I think you should play lizardmen for 3 reasons. 1) fairly easy to paint them(just like your nids) 2) I'm afraid of high elves and the ASF. My chaos wouldn't enjoy that at all 3) A couple of battalion boxes and a stegadon make a decent army
> 
> and the final reason is that if your played HE, I'd wanna buy the new starter set and trade you for your skaven and I don't think my wife would like that!!!


Lol..I figured you might be up for splitting the starter set with me. Your wife would enjoy painting some Skaven wouldn't she? Some nice looking models there. 

I dont know, I'm leaning more towards High Elves. Certainly not as easy to paint as some, but I think the mixture of magic and combat abilities would be fun. I'm still going to take a while to decide though. "needskonstruktion" also made me think about Daemons (thanks for those comments btw)..which would go well with my love of CSMs. So we'll see.


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## needskonstruktion

That's how I've just gotten into Daemons, via my CSM xD 

If you choose Lizardmen btw, I have a load just primed, a few with basecoats. I have a full metal Saurus Temple Guard Command, and the contents of a battleforce. One of the cavalry has been badly painted by someone >> But it isn't thick, just easily sprayed over and started anew imo. I also took one of the saurus and converted him into a commander. I think, need to recheck. 

If you want them, I would probably trade them for some skaven  Or other things, just PM me. I don;t have any daemons to trade though, I am going to make an army of my own.


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