# What to do with Ogres



## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

So it appears they obviously need a make over. I've just dusted off my old ogre models which I'm beginning to sort out but I was wondering what everyone thinks should be included, updated, redesigned etc etc when the Ogre army book eventually comes out?


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## Whamhammer (Jan 19, 2009)

Better magic!!! They dont have too much going for them there. also need some new plastics, having one kit that alters around for all our main units is kinda lame.


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## search116 (Aug 9, 2010)

Something to Counteract killing blow. I've seen Khorne Demons rip through half a ogre army because of that.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I hope they get some finecast models at least. Gut magic really needs sorted especially with this new expansion.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

legal highs said:


> To be honest, I even could not imagine how hard it is to find decent piece of info on the above topic. legal highs


There's a big thread in the announcements section with a lot of info on whats being released model wise etc.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

They also need to have more special characters Skarag is ok but who wants to use the Overtyrant he looks stupid imo and not to be used on the battlefield. Need a big mean tyrant.


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## Shandathe (May 2, 2010)

Overtyrant looks like he's not seen a battlefield in years, and couldn't raise himself to waddle to one if he wanted to. Most of all, I think the Ogres need a way to protect their numbers from being too readily thinned. Search116 mentioned Killing Blows for one. Magic *cough*purplesun*cough* is another that will eat through the Ogres' limited numbers far too unchecked at the moment.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

Luckily Ogres are immune to killing blow as they're monsterous infantry unfortunately they die in droves to anything that requires a characteristic test as their basic stats are piss poor.
Hopefully the new book will drop the dogs of war rule that drove up the cost of the models to make them almost unplayable.
When GW did the first OK book it seemed as if they really didn't want to upset anyone with the armylist meaning it was underpowered and only worth taking as mercenaries where the high cost was ofset by the fact that it covered a weakness in it's allied army.
Some armour would be nice and less self destructive leadbelchers if we're wishlisting.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I took a look at all the rumours over on warseer and there's tons on what they are planning.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

IIRC, Ogres aren't stubborn. They need this. and probably and extra pip of leadership as well. A points reduction across the board, and then some form of magic defense is in order (something along the lines of the Lizardmen Becalming Cogitation, or alternatively the ability to knick PD a la dwarfs/high elves). An improvement to bull charge wouldn't go astray, or alternatively simply drop bull charge in favour of points reduction.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

search116 said:


> Something to Counteract killing blow. I've seen Khorne Demons rip through half a ogre army because of that.


As neilbatte said- ogres are immune to killing blow... but this also means that the writers didn't give us anything that gives immunity to killing blow, meaning there is no way to protect from heroic killing blow or skulltaker. 



coke123 said:


> IIRC, Ogres aren't stubborn. They need this. and probably and extra pip of leadership as well. A points reduction across the board, and then some form of magic defense is in order (something along the lines of the Lizardmen Becalming Cogitation, or alternatively the ability to knick PD a la dwarfs/high elves). An improvement to bull charge wouldn't go astray, or alternatively simply drop bull charge in favour of points reduction.


Ogres can be stubborn with the right application of magic... just doesn't last long, or you can take a magical item to give them stubborn permanently. Their Ld is also fine- Ld9 is pretty standard, and can be increased to Ld10 with standard of discipline in the general's unit... just need to make good use of general/BSB/magical standards.

I would like to see a points increase for ogres... but also becomming T5 to set them apart from the other armies. We have loads of T3/4 and ogres are obviously bigger and tougher then the T4 models (which could go a long way to offsetting their lack of armour). Also all ogres should come with light armour- what the hell else should a huge armoured gut plate count as???

The biggest changes I would like to see are leadbelchers firing templates (or becoming stronger), magic not to be RiP (or having penalties for dispelling, just like there are penalties for casting) and last but certainly not least: protection from characteristic spells. Either better ways to stop them being cast, special dispel techniques/items or magical items that protect against them.
Personally I would love to see something like
- 50pts- Magical Maw (arcane item), the butcher may nullify the effect of any spell once cast (including with irresistible force) but takes D3 wounds.

There are so many cool things that could be done with ogres- their god eats stuff so we should either see that in-game as a divine presence, or once ogres start eating they should start to get more powerful.
Things like the black coach and 40k DE could be used as guidelines- absorbing power dice or becoming more powerful after beating enemy units (eg if an ogre units massacres an enemy unit in combat they get a free buff from their spell list which lasts till the end of the next ogre turn).


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> As neilbatte said- ogres are immune to killing blow... but this also means that the writers didn't give us anything that gives immunity to killing blow, meaning there is no way to protect from heroic killing blow or skulltaker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apparently leadbelcher cannons are being turned into normal cannons it's rumoured.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Tim/Steve said:


> Ogres can be stubborn with the right application of magic... just doesn't last long, or you can take a magical item to give them stubborn permanently. Their Ld is also fine- Ld9 is pretty standard, and can be increased to Ld10 with standard of discipline in the general's unit... just need to make good use of general/BSB/magical standards.


Huh, really? I could've sworn they were Ld7/8. Still, stubborn across the is needed. Steadfast is a huge boon which Ogres more often than not struggle to take advantage of. They need stubborn across the board.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Bulls and ironguts are Ld 7-8, but Tyrants are Ld9... so if you use his Ld bubble correctly then you have a Ld9 army. I rarely up him to Ld10 since that requires ironguts (used to love them in 7th, rarely ever take them in 8th) or to use a BSB with standard of discipline... and that leaves your BSB very vulnerable. I prefer my BSB to have enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++ (which I am great at failing).

Cannot believe leadbelchers will be standard cannons... no way that works from any perspective (buisness, fluff, model) but it wouldn't surprise me if their rules just got changed over to standard cannon grapeshot. In fact I expect it.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Bulls and ironguts are Ld 7-8, but Tyrants are Ld9... so if you use his Ld bubble correctly then you have a Ld9 army. I rarely up him to Ld10 since that requires ironguts (used to love them in 7th, rarely ever take them in 8th) or to use a BSB with standard of discipline... and that leaves your BSB very vulnerable. I prefer my BSB to have enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++ (which I am great at failing).
> 
> Cannot believe leadbelchers will be standard cannons... no way that works from any perspective (buisness, fluff, model) but it wouldn't surprise me if their rules just got changed over to standard cannon grapeshot. In fact I expect it.



From the rumours it's this - 

"Leadbelchers receive normal cannons, move or fire. So can shoot normal cannon ball (D3 wounds) or grapeshot."


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## Orochi (Jan 28, 2009)

Remove Gnoblars entirely.

Lower Hunter from Hero to Special. No more magic equipment but an increased arsenal.

Increase effectiveness of Maneaters. These are meant to be highly experienced fighters. Thus making them rival other armies monsters would be a good move. 1 Man units equal to the likes of the Varghulf.

Increase magic prowess OR make them highly resistant to magic in general.

Addition of a Uber Killy character. An ogre version of Grimgor/Archaon.

Some kind of 'Phalanx' unit that's highly resistant to firepower and missiles in the Rare choice. I'm talking shit loads of armour and big shields. The shield opposite to the Irongut club.


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## GrizBe (May 12, 2010)

I think Tim has nailed most of it with what Ogres need, me personally...

Ogres DEFINATELY need better magic. The fluff of gut magic is good, but it needs to be tougher, and harder to dispell. Afterall your eating something to cast it... surely you'd have to pretty much destroy the reagant to stop the magic right? At least I'd think so. Definately some new spell, and some tougher ones... and some more magic resistance to coutner the old instant death spells like Purple Sun. Sure you can take dispell scrolls, but they're still game killers.

Gnoblars, I like. But I think they need to be made into more specialised units then what they are. I've always seen them as the equivilent of gretchin, or smart but nasty that can tinker with equipment and make some more crazy contraptions, or be sneaky assasins and things... Can't really explain it, but I'd like to see them able to do more.

Leadbelchers... they carry cannons, make them act like proper cannons, or as said, let them fire templates. Either I think would fix them.

More characters... Rhinox Riders... Chaos Dwarf allies, since they deal with them for alot of stuff...


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Don't ogres have a massive problem with characters in the new rules due to the limit on how much you can spend on them? (25%)


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Not really... at 2k I sometimes cut a little equipment to take both a tyrant and slaughtermaster but even at 1.5k you can take tyrant, BSB and butcher easily enough.
Only issues come in warbands... 500pts doesn't give enough points for a character, but there are special rules for that allowing a gutlord/maneater to be the general instead (gutlord is the ironguts' champion).

Some of the reasons why I doubt ironguts would fire like normal cannons
- they are described as being stuffed with all manner of things (grapeshot), not proper cannonballs.
- a unit of them would have more firepower then an empire gunline...
and last, but for me the clincher
- ironguts are common as muck, making them into proper cannons wouldn't promote any sales... and GW is run as a buisness first these days.

... I think this is a rumour that ironguts get cannons' grapeshot rules that's been on the Chinese whisper grapevine.


Finally, to continue my wishlisting (I really could go on for pages and pages)... 2 words:
gnoblar shaman


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I think you mean leadbelchers. 

I dunno, I believe they want to give them some form of worthwhile ranged weaponry and turning leadbelcher cannons into light cannons maybe the way forward, before hand they honestly sucked as they weren't really range or melee they where in the middle.

I could easily go down the route of gnoblars becoming more like goblins but I don't think the fluff supports that as ogres tend to quell anything they deem subservient to them, including giants.

I do like the rumour about them getting some kind of mammoth like creature similar to the Mumakil. They are also meant to be getting proper rhinox riders.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Tim/Steve said:


> Bulls and ironguts are Ld 7-8, but Tyrants are Ld9... so if you use his Ld bubble correctly then you have a Ld9 army. I rarely up him to Ld10 since that requires ironguts (used to love them in 7th, rarely ever take them in 8th) or to use a BSB with standard of discipline... and that leaves your BSB very vulnerable. I prefer my BSB to have enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++ (which I am great at failing).


Fair enough... They still need stubborn though. I've had games against Ogres where I've only had 1 turn of gameplay before they lost- I move, they charge, I run them down. Gotta love Death or Glory missions.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I want this -


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ghark Ironskin... used to have forgeworld rules (before they removed all their trial rules), I assume they must have made the model as well, but I can't really remember.

Special character would be great to see, while I love Skragg and think Gresus is an immense model (awful, awful rules) I would love to see some more of the SCs come out to play. As an Eyebiter tribe I would love to have Grandfather Malron (wow success... even got his name right without looking it up, though I did have to double check).

This has set off my *oooooooh, shiny* sense again. Yet more cool things that could be done with ogres is to play around with SCs and/or tribes. Different tribes have different allegiances: 
Shrewd Fulg- Skaven
Eyebiters - The Empire
Ironskins - Chaos Dwarves
Spawnchompers- Dragon Ogres

I think it would be really cool to play around with ogres' non-aligned alliance status. Eyebiters are obviously good-aligned, while Ironskins are just as obviously evil... I think it would be cool if SCs taken as leaders of the different tribes played around with alliances (in a sort of 8th ed version of dogs of war) as well as playing with the structure of the different ogre tribes. Eg Ironskins being able to take more/better leadbelchers, spawnchompers being able to import dragon ogres (or rat ogres for Shrewd Fulg).
Choosing a tribe could also be like the doctrines used to be for space marines- a free upgrade for the army which comes with a few bonuses but also a few downsides.


I maintain that Ogres have the coolest potential of any army in WFB. With direct links to every nation in the world, an accepting culture (as long as new ideas bring food with them) and different tribes with varied characteristics and allegiances... I'm really hoping that GW pick up on some of the potential and do something cool with them. I dread GW bringing out a boring, bland update to the current army book which fixes some of their current problems without adding anything to the army.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm thinking of calling my tribe either the Stonehide Tribe or Rockhide Tribe due to how rocky their skin is, not really made a lot of fluff on them but I'm thinking they live in a deep ravine which gives them natural protection.

Here's one of my Ogres


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Sounds kinda like the mountaineater tribe... but for that they would need stone gutplates as well.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Sounds kinda like the mountaineater tribe... but for that they would need stone gutplates as well.


Cool, I don't think I want to repaint them now though heh. Should of read more about the different tribes before I started.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Tim/Steve said:


> Sounds kinda like the mountaineater tribe... but for that they would need stone gutplates as well.


On seconds thoughts, how would you do the gut plates? My ogres are grey skinned so I'm unsure how to do the gut plates so they stand out.


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