# Killing The Nightbringer



## BroodingLord (Feb 17, 2009)

Well don't know exactly where I should post so this so if its' in the wrong spot just gimme a shout. Well on to the real stuff, my friend who plays necrons is having a campaign against me and he is completely obsessed about using the nighbringer and its "invincible" statline, so like a true friend I have to show him up  I want a tactic or force choice that will kill the nightbringer outright and show him it isn't all that... I Do not want advice on causing phase out as the whole point of arranging this force is for pure godkilling humiliation :so_happy: any thoughts? (By the way I am a tyranid player and would prefer the force recommendation to be them but other army selections would be cool to see as well)




Broodlord Johnson


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## MasterKnives (Jan 21, 2009)

Its not that hard to kill the Nightbringer. Shoot decently high strength weaponry at him then laugh as it only takes relatively few wounds to down him thanks to his low save. If you want to take him in combat you are looking for a model or squad that can deal 8 successful wounds to the Nightbringer before he gets a chance to act (I5+ IIRC) for the "humiliation" factor, or to go simultaneously if you just want the nightbringer dead.

I am not too terribly familiar with nid lists, but one would need 48 strength 5-6 hits (HITS, as in probably 96 attacks) to cause the requisite number of wound rolls, 24 strength 7 hits, 16 strength 8 and so on. 


The Nightbringer is tough but big bugs with strong guns should be able to down him without too much hassle, nidzilla comes to mind, the same principle applies in close combat. Fire saturation works well too but as most infantry and their guns cant even scratch him.... it is a bit tough to accomplish this. 

Instant-Death stuff also works IIRC, but I do not believe nids have access to anything that can accomplish it (ie Force Weapons).


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## sooch (Nov 25, 2008)

Venom cannons. You want 2 tyrants with venom cannons, and 3 heavy fexes with venom cannons. The fexes will wound him on a 2+, and the tyrants will wound him on a 4+. He only has to fail 5 4+ saves, so you should be able to take him down pretty fast.

I wouldn't attempt CC with any unit in the tyranid army, except maybe a broodlord with implant attack. Anything else, he will slaughter.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

1 or 2 Dakka Fex's should be able to down him in one go, otherwise some pot shots with a Venom Cannon or Barbed Strangler can remove a few wounds before he makes it to you. Equip a Broodlord with Feeder Tendrils and its bodyguard with Acid Maw to have plenty of re-rolls to hit and wound. The Rending hits alone should drop him before he even gets to act (He is INT 4). Anyone can shoot him down but to take him in CC is another thing all together. Tack on Implant attacks for some real ownage.

A CC Tyrant with Implant attacks could theoretically take him down by itself, but you need 6' to wound...although for each would you get you deal 2. Maybe give the Tyrant a Acid Maw and keep some Feeler Tendrils nearby to get the re-rolls.


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## Might of the Emperor (Feb 1, 2009)

psycannons. Ignores his save.


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

Point enough shit at him and he's bound to fail some saves; basically, the Terminator Principle. The Nightbringer is hardcore in close combat, but he's weakness is the shooting phase; I've taken him down with a single Tactical Squad in one turn before.

Venom Cannons will probably do the trick, but if you really want to watch the life fade from your friend's eyes, shoot The Nightbringer up with some Gaunts. Lots of Gaunts. I'm talking one low-cost HQ choice and a whole shit-ton of shooty Gaunts as your entire force.


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## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

Captain Galus said:


> I've taken him down with a single Tactical Squad in one turn before.


How, may I ask?


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

How could you cause 5 wounds with a TacSquad in 1 turn?

Most people use sniper units to counter the C'tan, both C'tan are as hard to kill as eachother.

Genestealers are good at having a go, they have a lot of attacks and their rending ability means they can get past the high T.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Rapid Fire Plasma Gun and Heavy Bolter? That's 5 shots :laugh: 

But your best bet is shooting. There is not much that can take him down in Close Combat.


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

Captain Galus said:


> I've taken him down with a single Tactical Squad in one turn before.


Im with Ordo Xeno Commander on this, How exactly?
I really fail to see how this is at all possible, even if it were in the hands of a beginner.

As for taking the thing down, darklove I reckon is on the money, the big bugger is only I4 so stealers have a leg up, and then rending, not to shabby, throw in a Brood Lord with Implant attack and it could probably be a close fight, unless he lets loose his boom thingy, its some large template attack he can make in lew of his normal attacks, beware is all I can say.

Peace out:victory:


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## DarknessWithin (Jan 4, 2009)

Fool! Nothing can kill The Nightbringer!!! 
Sorry a bit off topic there.
Basicaly shoot the hell out of it, namely with snipers, or i remember reading that the Wraithcannon can cause a wound without saves.
DarknessWithin
P.S. If you're going for humiliation then may i suggest bringing a hammer to the game so if he wins he wont be able to next time...


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

I've taken him down with a single Tactical Squad in one turn before.
\.[/QUOTE said:


> yes how even said rapid fire plasma gun and heavy bolter is five shots that would require 5 3+'s to hit ok possible (rarely)
> 
> plasma = 2 5+'s possible (unlikely)
> 
> ...


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## SpaNNerZ (Jun 17, 2008)

DarknessWithin said:


> Fool! Nothing can kill The Nightbringer!!!
> Sorry a bit off topic there.
> Basicaly shoot the hell out of it, namely with snipers, or i remember reading that the Wraithcannon can cause a wound without saves.
> DarknessWithin
> P.S. If you're going for humiliation then may i suggest bringing a hammer to the game so if he wins he wont be able to next time...


I like that idea
I can see it now

Me:"you may have won the battle, but I SMASH YOUR NIGHTBRINGER, WITH MY HAMMER" *runs away laughing manically*

Opponent:*crying in corner*

Ahahahaha the image of it all

Peace out:victory:


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## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

ignore it, kill all the warriors with your faster stealers and say bye bye when it disappears, its slow anyway and not much of a threat in combat.

or just gang bang it with rending or lots of monstrous creatures


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

DarknessWithin said:


> may i suggest bringing a hammer to the game so if he wins he wont be able to next time...


Ahhhhh Ironman 40k. /sniff, those were the days.

Everytime something dies, it goes under the 20lb Sledge.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

spike12225 said:


> yes how even said rapid fire plasma gun and heavy bolter is five shots that would require 5 3+'s to hit ok possible (rarely)
> 
> plasma = 2 5+'s possible (unlikely)
> 
> ...


You want someone to do the math?

Okay, 12" range, not moved tactical squad. Sergeant has Combi-Plasma, and Close Combat Weapon. Plasma Gun is on the second trooper. This means that you can have any of the Heavy Weapons.

Plasma Guns - 2 shots hit on 3's. This is a 67% chance of happening. Wound on 5's - 33% chance of happening. 67/100*33 = 0.67*33 = 22%. He has a 4+ Invulnerable. This halves the last percentage. 11%. So to cause 4 wounds with Plasma, you have an 11% chance of doing that.

To cause 1 wound with;
Lascannon - 1 shot, hitting on a 3+ = 67%. Wounding on a 3+, equals 67% chance of happening. 67/100*67 = 44%. Saving on a 4+, halving the chance = 22%. 
Missile Launcher (Krak) - 1 Shot, hitting on a 3+ = 67%. Wounding on a 4+ (50%). 67/100*50 = 33%. Saving on a 4+ = 17%.
Plasma Cannon - Bit more difficult, being a Blast Get's Hot Weapon. It's mounted on a 50mm base, and it uses the 3" template - this means that anything at 5" or more of a distance for scatter, and it misses. Working it out, 2"(Base Size)+3"(Blast Template size)+4"(Space Marine BS) means that if you roll a 9 or greater on the scatter roll, you will miss.
To get a 9 or greater on a 2D6, you must roll - 


*XXX*
|
*3*
|
* 4*
|
* 5*
|
* 6*
* 3*
| - | - | - | 9 
* 4*
| - | - | 9 | 10
* 5*
| - | 9 | 10 | 11
* 6*
| 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
Out of 36 possible results, there are 10 results. This results in if there being a scatter, there being a 36% chance of it missing. Scatters occur 66% of the time. 66/100*36 = 24% chance of missing. There is also a 17% chance of get's hot. So 17% OR 24% = 41% chance of missing the Nightbringer. Means a 59% chance of hitting.

Wounding on a 5 = 33% chance of wounding = 19% chance of wounding. Saves on a 4+ = 10% chance of causing a wound.​
Multi Melta = 67% chance of hitting, 50% chance of wounding = 33% of causing a wound. Saves on a 4+ = 17% chance of causing a wound after saves.

Heavy Bolter - hitting on a 3+ = 67%, wounding on 17% = 11% chance of causing 3 wounds, To save all three, it has to save 1 shot, and 1 shot, and 1 shot. That's 50/2/2 = 12.5%. To cause at least 1 wound with a Heavy Bolter, therefore it's 11%/100*87.5% = 10%.

Putting that all together, 4 Plasma Wounds = 11%.

Plasma and Lascannon - 11 and (Multiply) 22 = 11/100*22 = 2% (2.42)
Plasma and Krak Missile - 11 and 17 = 11/100*17 = 2% (1.87)
Plasma and Plasma Cannon - 11 and 10 = 11/100*10 = 1% (1.1)
Plasma and Multi-melta - 11 and 17 = 11/100*17 = 2% (1.87).
Plasma and Heavy Bolter - 11 and 10 = 11/100*10 = 1% (1.1)

The estimates have been rounded to keep them easier to write down, but the actual maths done behind the scenes weren't rounded, until the very end, when I remembered that I hadn't finished, but had deleted the numbers from the screen. However, they are about as accurate as they can be got, without going too far into decimals etc, and show what's needed.

Remember, that the end results aren't to actually show how difficult it is to wound, but these are the Percentages to actually kill it with one tactical squad in a single turn. So with a maximum of 2.5% chance, congratulations, you've just done something that happens only once in 40 turns. And naturally, the Combi Plasma could only be fired once. In reality, it'd be more along the lines of 1/75, and then there's blowing yourself up, so you wouldn't have another chance... There you go ;D


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## Whizzwang (Dec 31, 2008)

Vaz it's posts like those that make me think you're cool.... and then I notice you listen to Justin Timberlake and it all goes out the window.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Haha, thanks, I guess. But it was really for T.I. I got the album *cough*.


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## DarknessWithin (Jan 4, 2009)

Vaz said:


> You want someone to do the math?
> 
> Okay, 12" range, not moved tactical squad. Sergeant has Combi-Plasma, and Close Combat Weapon. Plasma Gun is on the second trooper. This means that you can have any of the Heavy Weapons.
> 
> ...


Vaz you must have been very interesting to talk to in math class...
DarknessWithin


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## fowlplaychiken (Apr 6, 2008)

rapid firing sternguard vs nightbringer = dead nightbringer


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## BroodingLord (Feb 17, 2009)

K thanks all who replied, looks like venom cannons and stealers with a pimped broodlord it is  (and a very big hammer... and some pudding)




was wondering if outnumbering him by a lot and he lost the combat could kill him (Pretty sure gods are fearless), like dunno 3 carnifexes with the thornback and rippers (22 models each so count as 66 models together) any thoughts on this?


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## arachnid (Nov 17, 2008)

Gift of chaos.


Roll a six and watch the star-eating god turn into a meatloaf. :grin:




Remember, a tzeentchian sorc may try it twice in every turn.
1ksons army with 6 asp sorc's + ahriman.. 
that's 15 tries per turn (unless i miscounted on ahriman's rules)


The big downside is the range though  ... and the sorc's frying themselves.



edit: oh, noticed you were going at it with nids.. 
hmm well thornbacks and rippers on fexes don't do anything anymore, as the outnumber rule doesnt exist in 5th.

instead we have leadership mod's and No retreat! ..

Best bet would be as many attacks as possible that can realistically cause 5 wounds after hit/wound/saves ...
i've yet to use my nids against 'crons so that's all i can help out with.


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## BroodingLord (Feb 17, 2009)

Oh damn friend has my rulebook so looks like I reverted back to older rules without realizing it, thanks


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## jesse (Sep 29, 2008)

its not using nids, but use a space marine librarian with might of the ancinets.its kinda a long shot but all he has to do is fail one save.force weapon in the ass.last time i checked c'tan arened immune to instant death. but any who
bye bye night bringer,
but if that doesnt work blast the hell out of it


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## Daneel2.0 (Jul 24, 2008)

Well, there is always the Scythed Hierodule. His stats are pretty comparable, but he has 2 mass points which would make living through the Nightbringer attack easier. This option is probably only 50:50 though since the Nightbringer will go first.

Then you have the option of tons of genestealers. This one will work pretty well. You get 2 full stock broods for the price of the Nightbringer (well ok, 2 x 11 not 2 x 12 but still). That’s 72 attacks on the charge, with 36 hits giving 6 rends. He’ll save 3 of them. Then he’ll kill 2 or 3 genestealers (unless he uses Gaze of Death, which will kill about 5 or 6). Next round of combat you should have him. If you add scything talon and an implant attack then you drop to 15 models. With those you should have 60 attacks on the charge, 30 hits, 5 wounds and of those he saves 2 or 3. If he saves 2 he dies, else he is at 1 wound until next combat where you should win.

With a Gaunt brood you would need to take Toxin sacs and the Flesh Borer in order to hurt him (that give you strength 5 on the weapon – so 6s to wound). But for the points of the Nightbringer you could have 40 Gaunts armed that way. So just fill out 2 squads giving you 64 Gaunts. So that’s 64(1/2)(1/3) = 10 wounds of which he’ll save 5 and promptly die.

Keep in mind that in all these situations you are looking at point vs. point battles, not army vs. army battles, so things like getting in range intact are up to you :biggrin: This is also based on statistical analysis, so real results may vary :laugh:


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## Hellskullz (Jul 24, 2008)

You get yer wa'bosses killy klaw an send him in with da boyz!
Na, but as nids your best and safest bet would be some dakka fexs.
If you really do want to humiliate him, then do what was advised...
get lots and lots of gants.


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## Ragewind (Aug 3, 2008)

Thornback does nothing in 5th, don't take it...ever


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## BroodingLord (Feb 17, 2009)

Hmmm youd think they'd release an update for all those useless upgrades now.... symbiote rippers and thornback could allow like an extra D3 attacks or give one attack which does D6 wounds to represent the carnifex hugging and shredding the enemy on itself, would be cool idea cause from what ive heard thornback and rippers do absolutely nothing so pointless, they also need to take away the VC rule to hurt vehicles as well now its really annoying when you have to endure a shooty tank army to chug a CC carnie up the field. Good advice so far KEEP IT COMING I WANT UTTER HUMILIATION, the easier and more humiliating the better


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## BroodingLord (Feb 17, 2009)

Oh and a reply to Jesse I dont think librarians are allowed to use a power THEN use a force weapon, havent really looked it up cause nids dont get no fancy weapons


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## Johnathanswift (Sep 30, 2008)

a force weapon is a power weapon,it can always be used, however it can additonaly activate a power, thus he can use it if he has the epistolary upgrade allowing him to use two powers per turn *see this thread*


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## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

spike12225 said:


> yes how even said rapid fire plasma gun and heavy bolter is five shots that would require 5 3+'s to hit ok possible (rarely)
> 
> plasma = 2 5+'s possible (unlikely)
> 
> ...


Aight you caught me on that one. Bear in mind the incident in question happened roughly 6 years ago, back in the dark days when my friends and I didn't have a solid internalization of all the tables necessary to play W40K. Obviously, the fact that S4 cannot wound T8 slipped us, probably because S5 can wound T8 on 6+.

But touche! I acknowledge a successful hit :victory:


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## enieffac (Nov 24, 2008)

I don't have a clue what the stats on the Nightbringer are, but getting assaulted by a Bloodthirster with unholy might : thats 6 attacks at ws10, s9, and ignoring armor due to MC status... I'll bet that ought to be humiliating enough. Raped in a single assault by a single creature in close combat. Course I have no idea what the % chance of that happening would be without knowing the stats on the Nightbringer...


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## spike12225 (Aug 21, 2008)

ha ha lol its toughness 8 5 wounds 4+ invun it is only init 4 but any wounds it does back ignore all saves including invun so you'd have to kill it but you have a chance just not humiliating chances


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## Saint7515 (Apr 30, 2008)

Its pretty much been said, but 2 sniper fexs (venom+barbed/2 venom) and a broodlord with tendrils and stealers+talons retinue will end him in one turn most likely - the only problem is the 4+invuln. in shooting, otherwise even Zoanthropes would do the trick.

If you were empire, a GK squad with a pair of psycannons makes it laughably easy - 3 turns of 6 S6 shots that ignore invuln, and then you could charge it and just add up another dozen S6 or so attacks. One squad at 2/3 the price takes it down. Or snipers. or a googleplex of ork-roket launcha's. but I digress...


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

Broodlord with feeder tendrils,
8 stealers with acid maw and sycthing talons.

Get the charge with this unit and the Nightbringer is screwed. Or drop the unit down to 6 and throw some shooting at it first, that way the army is a bit more balanced.


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## Wraithian (Jul 23, 2008)

Two units of 6 Fiends of Slaanesh. The points cost for the 12 Fiends is identical to the Nightbringer, with 72 attacks on the charge. With 2 wounds a piece, as well as eternal warrior, the Nightbringer may drop two fiends a turn (with decent rolls). But, with 72 rending attacks on the charge and Hit & Run, you'll drag him down in a few phases.


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## Master_Caleb (Jan 5, 2009)

If you really wanna keep it simple and humiliating... Pimp out a hive tyrant. Get the fancy biomorphs, but then also take 3 tyrant guards. Give them all lash whips. That's 4 lash whips = -4 attack = 1 attack per turn. The three guards will be getting 6 attacks per turn (thanks to rending you'll get one hit on average), and the tyrant will also get a extra pair of scything talons so on average he'll hit once every other turn. All in all even if you can't kill him, you'll tie him up for quite awhile. 

If you really wanna piss him off then do the same thing with warriors. Take 4 warriors with lash whips and rending claws, and 5 with scything talons and rending claws all in the same squad. That's a total of 8 attacks for lash whipping ones, and 15 attacks for the rest. The only other biomorph you'll need is adrenal glands (+1 I) so you'll be able to go at the same time. Now see the look on his face when he only gets one attack (meaning at best is killing 1 warrior every two turns), and you are getting 23 (on average about 3-4 rending hits a turn). Also for 9 extra attacks a turn BEFORE he goes you can pick up bioplasma. Bet he never thought a bunch of warriors would kick his tail! If you count that in you get an extra rending and you are hitting on average 4-5 times a turn. Now with his inv save that's about 2-3 wounds a turn. That means on average he'll be dead by second turn, which means on average he'll kill one warrior before he dies. At worst he kills one and deals one wound to another. This isn't to mention extra wounds from fearless of course, which could put him even worse off. I'd love to see him die in one turn! *Goes to roll the dice now*

Thanks,

~MC


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## harrytheschmuck (Nov 4, 2008)

ive killed a c'tan in one turn before, it took all my shooting, i had 2 tyrants with twin devourers, thats 24 shots, about 21hits and caused about 8/9 wounds.


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## * Luke T * (Feb 13, 2009)

The Night Bringer is'nt all that great. He sucks big time against Guard & Chaos!

Your best bet with nids is to take a Broodlord that's upgraded to hell!
Or two Tyrants with Twin Devourers.

Weapons work well but I don't think the nids have them?!


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## darklove (May 7, 2008)

Power Weapon does exactly NOTHING vs the Nightbringer. Force Weapon might work though.


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## Crimson_Chin (Feb 20, 2009)

@ caleb

If you take away the nightbringer's attacks won't he just explode on you? lol, that's what i'd do.

"You have only 1 attack! Muahahahaha"

"Boom."


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## Commissar Maximus (Sep 20, 2008)

:laugh::laugh::laugh:...2 tunrs max with 10 snipers that's what i do,that's what the imperium uses (at least everyone i have been playing with)and it has been working quite fine by now.To much''light'' to bring any night usualy.:grin:


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