# Fighting Ogres This Saturday with Skaven. Any Help?



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Hi there!

On Saturday my local GW manager has a game arranged against me now that I have bought and built a 2000 point all plague Skaven army. It looks terrifying and won against a tzeentchy Chaos force last week even after a fair bit of the army tore itself apart.

However having not faced Ogres before, let alone in this edition, I do not quite know exactly what to do against them that would best benefit me.

If it helps I run the list below:

Lords

Lord Skrolk-470 points

Heroes

Plague Priest-Flail, Lv2 Upgrade, Plague Furnace and Ironcurse Icon-294 points

Core

30 Plague Monks with Full Command-235 points

35 Plague Monks with Full Command-270 points (Skrolk normally joins here)

45 Plague Monks with Full Command and Plague Banner-370 points (Furnace goes here)

Special

2 sets of 5 Censer Bearers-160 points total

Rare

2 Plagueclaws-200 points total

Also if it helps I sadly do not know the list he will bring but will almost certainly know what I will be bringing.

I do know that he has about 4-5 Mournfangs, a Stonehorn, a Thundertusk, couple units of Leadbelchers, about a dozen Ironguts, a Firebelly, normally has a Butcher with the Hellheart, Tyrant, about another dozen Ogres and an Ironblaster in his collection.

Much appreciated for any help given here.


----------



## Arli (Mar 4, 2010)

I am not too familiar with Skaven. But I know that you will want to make sure that you have plenty of poison attacks (both close combat and shooting if possible). I would also make sure to take the storm banner as it will ruin at least one round of shooting for him. That may be the round it takes for you to get into CC. 

Ogres also have very low Initiative values, so anything that would target that will be good as well. However, they will not be affected by the dreaded 13th (I think that Monstrous Infantry cannot be targeted with that spell).

Hope this helps.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Don't use Catapults. They will never wound, not Ogres. Warp lightning Cannon is the way to take out Ogres. It may not be "plauge" fluffy, but it is effective. 

A BSB with the Storm Banner might be useful if he's a shooty Ogre Army, which from your list is possible. A cheap Engineer with the Crown of Command would also be important, since I don't think Plague Monks are Naturally stubborn.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Hmm, don't think warp lightning will do much against ogres either: if you don't kill one then the shot stops dead and ends, so if you don't get high strength it'll do next to nothing.


I would say this: you opponent knows his army very well and will have played skaven many times before and will know how to beat them. Meanwhile you aren't a very experienced player, using a newish army and have no experience of ogres...
... put simply you are going to get hammered. So don't worry about it too much, just go and have a fun game and don't worry about the result too much.


Having said that, here's a few suggestions to use against ogres:

1- force them to take as many moral checks as you can. Concentrate firepower to make sure if you do damage its 25% of a unit and include anything that causes instant moral checks if it wounds (don't know if skaven have much of that)..

2- abuse ogres low initiative. If you haven't got a brass orb in your army you've built it wrong. Just wait for a stonehorn/thundertusk to come close them smask it with the orb: 67% chance of it dying if you hit isn't bad... of just throw it at a big unit of ogres and laugh.

3- steadfast is your friend. Ogres can't win fights of attrition, so stay steadfast for a few rounds of combat and wait for the combat to swing to you... *BUT* this won't work against mournfang. While everything else will melt away the mournfang's 2+/6++ in combat coupled with massed attacks means it just keeps hitting hard turn after turn after turn... focus on them and try to kill them before they get to you.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Warp lightning is an area affect attack at the end. It does many many wounds, as it's not just a cannon ball effect.


----------



## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Its a cannon ball and then an area effect... if the cannon ball line gets stopped then the end blast doesn't happen: the shot ends just as a cannon would.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

No, I don't believe it does. It has a cannon ball effect, which is stopped, and an area affect, which is not. It just skips the line in between.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks for the information so far guys. 

I forgot that the catapults only use will be for blasting gnoblers. He likes to take a unit or 2 with what I guess contain trappers on occasion which would wreak havoc on my army unless stopped.

As for getting hammered. Quite likely but then again I prefer to have fun first. Although he has mentioned an army like mine is terrifying to face for most opponents.


----------



## IanC (Sep 3, 2010)

Try and get the charge - Ogres have impact hits when they charge. And if they charge enough of a range they increase from 1 to d3 (IIRC)


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

On the warp lightning cannon: The Skaven army book says that it fires in the same way as a cannon except that it cannot fire grapeshot. In fact, the FAQ clearly says that the range for the cannon is determined by the normal cannon rules. The template at the end of the bounce is the lightning exploding at the end of the bounce as the shot loses momentum and is not a separate attack. The small template at the end is not separate from the line of the bounce and is part of the shot. Thus, like all cannons, if the warp lightning bolt fails to wound a monstrous model it hits, it stops.


----------



## NoPoet (Apr 18, 2011)

Without meaning to piddle in the pool, in the GW store yesterday I saw a Stonehorn flatten over a dozen Bloodletters before sheer weight of numbers brought it down. (He had about 30-40 'letters in the unit. The combat went on for a couple of turns.) 

*



As for getting hammered. Quite likely but then again I prefer to have fun first. Although he has mentioned an army like mine is terrifying to face for most opponents.

Click to expand...

*Good man! And yes, that army would be pretty horrific, but in keeping with the fluff. Imagine what would happen if it met my Nurgle Tally army... :O

If you changed to warp lightning cannons you could make up a fluff reason for it, like the Council has forced it on them for some reason (political wrangling by Clan Skryre?), or the Plague Monks simply relish the smell of burning Ogre. EDIT: You could paint the crewmen up as Plague Monks. Maybe they simply nicked the weapons after a Clan Skryre army left them on the field.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Well. just as an aside. Look at the updated Skaven FAQ. Warp Lightning cannons are not stopped by failing to kill monstrous infantry. 

Q: If a shot from a Warp Lightning Cannon does not kill a
Monstrous Infantry/Beast/Cavalry or Monster model does that shot
stop? (p68)
A: No. All models are still hit.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

NoPoet said:


> Without meaning to piddle in the pool, in the GW store yesterday I saw a Stonehorn flatten over a dozen Bloodletters before sheer weight of numbers brought it down. (He had about 30-40 'letters in the unit. The combat went on for a couple of turns.)
> 
> 
> Good man! And yes, that army would be pretty horrific, but in keeping with the fluff. Imagine what would happen if it met my Nurgle Tally army... :O
> ...


Thanks very much! As for Warp Lightning Cannons I already have a couple planned and soon to be built. Basically by cutting off the electrical stuff and green stuffing boils and warts on the woodwork and also green stuffing a glob coming out the end of the barrel I have effectively created Plague Cannons! These use the same rules but not only fit with my army but look pretty damn cool as well.


----------



## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd recommend putting the banner that lets you reroll missed attacks and wounds once in a game (sorry don't know the name) against ogres high toughness the rerolls will help you win a decisive combat, I've had it used against me many times.

Given that you'll generally attack first you should be able to win most of the fights eventually even against T4 ogres just try and avoid the impact hits.


----------



## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Striking first against Ogres happens a lot, yes. Unless the sneakey Ogre player takes Thundertusks and the Dragon Banner, making you ASL. Waiting to the Stomp Round to attack makes things depressing for Skaven.


----------



## Ultra1 (Mar 10, 2011)

i'd also look at the doomwheel, if i remember correctly it's shots multiply into D6 wounds. devistating for ogres! plus it's very Skaveny (random). you gotta love randomness when playing skaven.


----------



## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

You really want to max on rare choices against ogres. 

The warp-lightning cannon is huge because every unsaved wound is multiplied to D6 wounds per model and furthermore the new FAQ makes it clear that monstrous models that live do not stop the cannon shot from continuing on. 

The doomwheel is also excellent because of the impact hits and toughness it possesses. It is one of the few things you will have able to take on ironblasters. 

The hellpit abom also does multiple wounds (D3) at S6 for every unsaved wounds it causes when feed is rolled, the avalanche of flesh auto hits every model in base contact that fails an I test and does another 2D6 S6 hits on the unit. Between the impact hits and the combat with hellpit having greater iniative, the hellpit can ravage the T4 ogre units.

The banner that lets a unit re-roll to hit and to wound once per game is the plague banner and can only be carried as a magic banner by a unit of plague monks.


----------



## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

A fluffy Hellpit could be a GIANT swarm of rats.


----------



## Stephen_Newman (Jul 14, 2009)

aboytervigon said:


> A fluffy Hellpit could be a GIANT swarm of rats.


Agreed. I still want to stick with the plague theme and currently finding fluffy ways to model other units so they are more "plagey".

So far I believe that Warp Lightning Cannons could be used as Plague Cannons and Globerdiers could instead be Plague Monks who carry hurl cases of "Smallpox in a box" instead of the globes. Hellpit Abominations could be represented by using some kind of giant spawn similar to the old Plague Spawn that was available in the Bubonic Court list of old.

However even I struggle with the concept of a Plague Doomwheel.


----------



## aboytervigon (Jul 6, 2010)

Rats in a wheel shape?


----------



## Brother Malleus (Dec 6, 2011)

Instead of warpstone it could be powered by a page of the libor bubonicus or a furnace where putrid bodies are used as fuel and the exhausts are the ranged effects of the doomwheel?


----------

