# Fluff for female SM army



## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

First off, I know all the arguments about female SM armies and I don't care.

I'm planning to make a female SM army for my daughter. She's to young to play now but she's interested in looking at my minis, likes to watch me paint and work on them and there's a pretty good chance she'll get into the hobby when she's older. That being said, she'll want a more girly army and girl marines will interest her.
Now, I want something that can atleast be a little fluffy, so I wanted to run down the basics of what I'm thinking and see how heretical it is. Again, I'm just interested in if this is semi-plausable fluff.

After the Horus Heresy begins, the Emperor slips into a fit of depression. His sons have abandoned him and turned to chaos. There had to be a flaw in what he did. He reviews all his research and finds nothing that would lead him to belive there is anything wrong, when it hits him. The increased aggression that adds drive to men can lead them astay. While it is exactly what he wants in a soldier, it can lead to a desire for more, and can lead to chaos. The flaw was the chromosome that allows a space marine to become a space marine. He uses his previous research to change the chromosome receiving the gene-splicing.
He secretly creates a new primarch, the 21st. He combines genetic code from multiple women, gathering the physical and mental attributes for the female chromosome. The Emperor then combines his own genetic material.
The amount of combat drugs is increased to counter the fact that the female body process muscle growth differently.
The gene-seed is then secretly wisked from Terra before Horus arrives. The gene-seed is caried to Ophilia VII. There a secret society begins, a group later to be know as The Daughters of the Emperor and then the Sisters of Battle. While some SOB are recruited to hide the fact that there are female space marines, some are still created as other chapters are.
The society has remained a secret from shortly after the Horus Heresy under fear of being called heretical and being hunted. The gene-seed does not take hold like its male counterparts. Some never develop the attributes needed to become space marines and become Sisters of Battle, Nuns with guns. Some have psyker abilities like their father, the Emperor.

That's the basics. My plan is to make an army for her that is flexable. Having models that can be space marines to start, Chaos Marines when she learns some, and SOB as she gets better and able to use more complex armies.

Now, I'm not making the big breasted female marines that some do. The marines will be more conservative, slimmed legs, arms and lower torso and some re-positioning to give a more feminin look.

So, what is blatently wrong, can't happen, right, plausable? My fluff doesn't need to be perfect but giant gapping holes should be filled. (except that some of you will say no female SM's. Tell my daughter that...she'll probably kick you in the shin :taunt


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Get Witch Hunters armies. Most of the soldiers are distinctly feminine. True the models are metal, which spikes the cost a bit, but if you're looking for girl power thats where its at.

EDIT: Never mind, I just saw your part about complicated armies, and its true that Ordo Hereticus utilitizes some bizarre units and tactics from time to time but they arent that complex. If you really want to steer simple then your plan probably your best bet. As for lore, SM lore is really convoluted so I try not to bother with it when I dont have to- Someone else will likely no more.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

I've never been much of a fan of female marines, because it often leads people to creating the big breasted ones you have mentioned Raptor_00.

However that aside, good for you trying to help your daughter get into this eventually; the plan looks pretty sound and should be interesting.



Fluffwise, ignoring the whole female marines thing (because as you've made it clear, you don't care, so the only point of the bitching and whining about that is to spam the idea with nothing) I believe your biggest problem lies in the Emperor developing a new primarch in such a short time. Now theres nothing documented on how long it took the Emperor to create the original primarchs, but we can assume it was not short. Even if he had decided to go about it again, even after having done it (technically) twenty times before, the time he needed and the time he had would likely not mesh.

Looking back though, it does look like you've already developed a way to get around this in that the creation of this primarch was rushed and slightly flawed. The geneseed implanted in apsirants does not always do anything, you could even go on to say that for those who it does take hold of, the process in which the second geneseed grows is accelerated and some of the female marines have been noted to grow one or more after having the second geneseed removed. (Allowing for a larger genestock and the ability to implant into more possible candidates.)


You also mention that this new primarch was whisked away just before Horus and his forces arrived; but for the loyalists the warp had become unstable and nearly impossible to navigate, the chaos gods giving Horus yet another advantage over the loyalists.


So the warp travel aside, theres not to much wrong with it. Its like when some people go with the Dark Angels being evil and the fallen are the good guys; sometimes it does not sound or feel in character but thats because your trying to have things seen in a different light.


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## Thuellai (Jul 15, 2009)

In fairness, it couldn't be that hard - the primary difference is the XY/XX thing, so presumably with just a small adjustment he could have, at the least, a somewhat butch female Primarch. Of course, for actual feminine qualities there'd be a fair bit more going, but if it's a rush-job, hell, just modify a few genes for, say, Dorn and you have his female clone. Boom. I could totally see it done - playing with the Emperor's gene-pool to get a female equivalent would be fairly simple and I can't see why it's such a crazy difficult thing to believe they could have done for all the "no female SM" people.


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## Lord of Rebirth (Jun 7, 2008)

After the Horus Heresy the Emperor is so damaged he can't do anything and is put in the golden throne. He became an invalid.

Also aggression is a base human instinct and while it is more prevalent in testosterone pumped males it also occurs in women and if you engineered women to be super soldiers they would have just about as much and the amount less they have would be a factor os decreased ability.

Men are not better than women. We are just a factor tougher, meaner and more violent.


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## Fire Lord (Feb 15, 2009)

I've no problem with Female Space Marines, so long as the Butch Primarch doesn't wear flannel and have short hair!:laugh: Seriously though, I think it's cool, and screw anyone who says different. You wanna put that kind of time into something for your kids, more power to you! You may write a custom codex with a unique stat line for the fsm's, like cost more but higher initiative?


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the read throughs and comments.

@Lord of Rebirth- I;m not tying to say men are better/worse than women but that the Emperor thinks that way. Reading other fluff, the Imperium is very male dominated and very sexist so why wouldn't the Emperor himself view things similarly.

There will be no "super butch" girls in flanel and super short hair.

I did think of just buying SOB's but the cost will really hurt to much I think. And I don't want my daughter startig off with somethingso hard for a child to master as Witch Hunters. The point of the army really is to buy models that can be either SM, CSM, or SOB, with only buying supporting models to flesh out each army. That way my daugter can start simply and work to a more complex army. Also she could call the army any of those 3 armies without having to actualy buy 3 full armies.

I plan on adding more fluff eventualy to show these girls falling to chaos just as easily, another failure of the Emperor.

I'm also thinking of calling the chapter "Harpies" from Greek mythology.


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

I'm interested in why you think that your daughter would rather have girl marines?


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Because she likes all things that are girly. If she has a choice between a GI Joe and a Barbie doll, she takes the Barbie.
If given the choice to play a male driven game with all male figures or with girl figures, which do you think she'd choose?
She just shows lots of interested in the game so far, I'm just...attempting to get her more interested by showing her something she'd already have the propensity to play with. If she decides she doen't like the game, this probably won't go beyond a test figure or two.


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## Tau22 (Apr 27, 2009)

Now, this is an interesting viewpoint.
Just noting, don't colour them pink and don't give them a Hello Kitty Dread... otherwise, I think this plan could end gloriously!


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## Euphrati (May 24, 2009)

I meant no offense by the way Raptor, I'm honestly interested as a female gamer why it would have to be 'girly' for her instead of say a chapter that follows a knightly order all about valor (the storybook white knight per say).

I know i'm playing the devil's side on this and I think it is really great that you want to get your daughter into it (female gamers rule!) but it makes me cringe whenever someone says that something has to be girly-pink with bows on it for women to enjoy it.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

I myself for one dont care about the Female Marine thing. I am in the middle of a Slannesh army where in my fluff a Sorceror (and Badass one) captures many SoB in a raid and perverts, tortures, and degrades them into his nastiest servants. With some help of Fabious Bile expirements and massive amount of drugs, the SoB have reached SM levels. Now I can field them as my CSMs for my nasty Sorceror. Fluff fits. Truth be told if Fabious Bile can creat SM monsters from his research, then so should all of Mars.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Oh no, no pink hello kitty. I'm thinking more purple and blue with some black. Maybe some pink trim to keep them bright. Kinda Slannesh like. Still looking at different combinations right now.
Though I did have evil thoughts of a purple and pink "my little pony" army just to make everyones eyes bleed. And it would be funny to see characters named "Starbright" with a cartoon horse painted on her shoulder pad beating he crap out of smurf ultra marines


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## Dire Wolf (Jul 16, 2009)

I would like to see my friend's Storm Dragons Chapter of the Sai'loa Sept getting their asses kicked by that. Feminism in the Imperium = Apocalypse!


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

Or you could give them something like the Soul Drinkers color scheme, purple and gold. As well, i don't think it's really far-fetched for there to be female SM's, i mean if the mechanicus can create a weapon that can create a contained vortex, i couldn't comprehend that they can't alter X chromosomes.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Euphrati, I understand your point about the "girly army in pink" thing but she's young and tends to go for the girly things. She loves to wear dresses, make-up, get her nails done, play dress up, even kiss boys. All things usually done by little girls and not by boys. This is the one thing she genuinly seems to show interest in that is male dominated. 
Now I do think it's more of wanting to be around her daddy and she simply finds my toys fun. But if that's the in for her into the game, great.
This would just be he first army anyway. If she got involved and wanted to continue with warhammer she could go in any direction she wanted in armies and I'd be happy. I just feel she may be able to see herself in female space marines more. Just as many of the male teen players connect with male, testosterone marnes.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

BloodAngelsfan said:


> Or you could give them something like the Soul Drinkers color scheme, purple and gold...


That scheme crossed my mind, and I may try it out. I just need some twist to it to make it more original ad don't want to many colors making it to "loud". In paint schemes I like the KISS method.


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

lol at Hello Kitty DN. It would be more than a little embarrassing to be killed by that thing.


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

Raptor_00 said:


> Oh no, no pink hello kitty. I'm thinking more purple and blue with some black. Maybe some pink trim to keep them bright. Kinda Slannesh like. Still looking at different combinations right now.
> Though I did have evil thoughts of a purple and pink "my little pony" army just to make everyones eyes bleed. And it would be funny to see characters named "Starbright" with a cartoon horse painted on her shoulder pad beating he crap out of smurf ultra marines


Well, as a firm believer that the ultrasmurfs suck, Go for it!!! :biggrin:


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

This is kinda what I'm leaning towards for a paint scheme. Everything is still up in the air though...the more I look at it the more I think it's not really what I want. Maybe I'll just have my daughter pick the colors at random.


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Kool colors but for the models would seem kinda hard to convert and everything so unless you wanna do that why dont you buy SoB and add a little more to them and play as SM and if she wants say theyre SoB and if she goes CSM just add spikes and evil looking things


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

Chocobuncle has a good idea. Start her out using Sisters of Battle and subbing the models as Space Marines, with the same stats and abilities, and if she really starts getting into it, just start explaining the Witch Hunters rules and units to her, expand her armies with things like Penitent Engines and Arco-Flagellants, and get her deeper into the hobby.


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## Dire Wolf (Jul 16, 2009)

Anyway how will you try to make them? I'm pretty interested as I want to make tortured slaves to go with my Chaos Lord.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

I'm not a big fan of the current SOB models. I'd rather have plastics to work with.

The plan to make the models rightnow is to take some SM and shave down the legs and arms a little to make them thiner looking. Reposition the legs a little and shave the lower torso giving a thinner waist without increasing the chest size. The difference between the two should give the allusion of breasts under armor without making huge breasts that look fake. For the champions and lords I'm gonna take female heads and put them on. Normal soliders will keep their helmets.

Hopefully they come out ok. I'm getting a single model to work out some of the kinks and do a sample. Hopefully I can have that done in a few months between some other projects


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## Dire Wolf (Jul 16, 2009)

I'd like to see a picture of that when you are finished. Sounds like your daughter's passion for Warhammer is inherited.


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Well if you want to do SM you should try to slim down the chest too and yea with a little boobs like giant

for the regular helmets you should consider maybe having some hair come out the back of the helmet or something just so it doesnt look so manly


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

As you asked for thoughts on your fluff, I thought I might see if I might join in! I can see a couple of issues; I have no issue with female SMs (aren't I big!), but the fluff needs to be spot-on and unfortunately there are some gaps in your starting idea.
You posit the Emperor being able to correctly diagnose the cause of some of his sons falling to Chaos. He didn't really believe that Horus had fallen until he saw him on the bridge of his ship; even with all of the death and destruction being caused by the traitor Legions he still wanted to believe that his sons weren't the cause.
The Emperor re-making the gene-runes to produce a 21st Primarch before Horus reaches Terra. The big E had more than enough to do with fortifying the planet and with the battle in the Imperial Webway to be able to devote any time to making a new Primarch.
Re-jigging the geneseed to change the final product. I have no science to back this up, but I imagine that the process of making a super-soldier will give you the same end result wether you start with men or women. To have someone who will think nothing of throwing themselves into the most dangerous situations and then tearing off heads means that you will always be dealing with abnormal amounts of 'aggressor' hormones, and even normal hormones; I can't see how making Astartes female will fundamentally change the end product.
The Sisters that don't make the change are just nuns-with-guns (to paraphrase your good self, criminally). The process of initiate->Astartes is gruelling and dangerous, and not just physically. The organ-implantation and psych-doctrination leave many dead and damaged. There is no way that anyone could undergo this transformation and nothing would happen. At least not with the way we have seen the science-tech of the 30k Imperium works. Human->Marine is bloody business even before you start the fighting.
Now, of course, what I have written here is totally disposable. If you wanted to make something that truly fits with the 40k we know and love, then you might look at some of the things I've mentioned (because, of course, what I say must be right. Well, it might be...) and try to come up with something else. But, just as validly, you could just leave it as what you have already written because, in the end, it doesn't really matter that much as it is just a way for you to get an army for your daughter that will suit what she is wanting. Either way, best of luck. And let's see the models!

GFP


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

like i said before, i doubt that people who can create Titans and send ships across the galaxy in a matter of days/weeks can't change X chromosomes.


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Hell Like I said Fabious Bile Creates his own Marine Equivalant Monsters with his Expiraments. Thats one man. All of Mars cant do the same? I mean it takes them a 100-200 years to make a Chapter. Female Marines are so not that farfetched.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I have always thought that the reason that men are used is anthropological, not any biological reason. Women get pregnant and give birth, therefore they are more important to the future of the species than men; once men have donated their genes (ooer!), which they can do at a young age, the women do the important part and can do this for a numerous times. 
Societally, women have also been the ones to look after the children. I think this is ho women took on the role of 'homecarers, looking after domestic things because, looking after kids, that was where they found themselves. Could you imagine any woman voluntarily giving up her newborn to a man, even if he was the father, and going back to work straight away? And so, she and her fellow women find themselves stuck at home and things need doing which they will be glad of because, whilst kids are their life, it can e monotonous looking after them. So housework and cooking is a release. Fast forward several thousand years to our own time, and suddenly this co-incidental start is now 'gender roles'- what a load of crap!
It is these reasons that make female SMs less probable. You can reduce the male population quite heavily and you will still be able to reproduce the species, but reducing the number of female would be incredibly dangerous. And it is this mindset that informs the Imperium, otherise we would see an even split between men and women warriors. That's not to say that the female warrior poulation is negligible, it ceratinly isn't, but the Magi of Mars, and the big E in the beginning saw men as the resource they could use with impunity, not women, and so it continues because 30k's values are not too far removed from 40k's values. So, if you can make Astartes at all, making them female shouldn't be that hard, but I don't really think that is the issue here. Although it could be.
We have the same male/female attitudes tody: all you have to do is look at the controvesy over wether female soldiers should serve in combat zones and on the frontlines. Those arguments inform the authors who in turn, inform the universe they create. So, within the 40k universe there is no reason that stops there being female SMs; but I don't thinnk it would be the imperium that would make them. BTW, my list of 'gaps' was just a response using what I know of actual fluff. It doesn't really mesh with what I actually think, just what we 'know' about the 40k 'verse and timeline.

GFP


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Thanks for helping in filling the gaps in my fluff. I'm no fluff master myself by any stretch of the imagination.

As soon as I make a test model I'll post it, just don't expect anything for a few weeks at minimum.

Looking at female warriors as a resource driven idea makes sense from a breeding perspective. 

Genetcally I can't see any problem with female marines. If you can travel the stars you have a tech level that could allow you to do most things with genetics. 
My thoughts that failed female SM's become SOB (nuns with guns) was only a way to explain how I could run multiple different armylists with one army. I know many would still die in the process. I kinda think of the acts of faith a psyker power and in MY fluff, would come from the genetic tie with the Emperor. These pysker powers somehow protect the recruits from dieing in the process but also stop the process before it goes to far. And that leads to an SOB instead of a marine.

The fact that the Emperor didn't belive that Horus had truley turned till he saw him is a kicker in the fluff. And the fact that he would have been busy preparing defenses would leave little time to do this. Maybe if he had a vision before hand but felt his vison could be changed if he confronted Horus. Maybe that he had already started the primarch out of a desire for a daughter? or a way to better procreate marines? instead of recruituing from outsde of chapters, a way of recruiting from within a chapter, to increase the chance of success of the gene-seed not killing the rectuit.

The fact that warp travel was impossible at the time could fit with the fluff well enough. A ship traveling at sub-light speed would take generations to reach an area outside of warp turbulence. This could accunt for why the founding of th SOB and th heresy were so far apart. Since I'm using the founding of SOB as a cover for the secret founding of the chapter...or, not have the Emperor create the chapter at all. A rouge group from the Ecclesiarchy or Ordo Hereticus dabbling in genetic engineering. I know little about either organization so I'll have to look to see if that would make sense. I know they've been around since the beginning of the Imperium, maybe changing things to suit thier will. A secrect society within a secret society...now my mind reals with ideas of illuminati and masons and everyother secrect society frm our own world history
Time for some 40k research to explore this idea...


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Here's the paint scheme my daughter came up with. She picked the colors and I just put them where she pointed. It's similar to what I was thinking but with some differen purple in it for some areas. I actualy like hers better. She's already a better painter then me.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Ok, after some reading I've come up wiht somethig a bit different fluff wise that may or may not work...lets find what's wrong with this fluff idea and go from there:

A secret organization of the Inquisition is able to gain access to some of the work that the Emperor had done on the Primarch project. These individuals heard the whisperings of Chaos and stole some of the knowledge from which they began experimentation at creating thier own militant arm. One to control the masses and enforce it's will upon the Imperium. They used genetic material stolen from one of the chapters and re-combined it to form a secret female force, one that would not be immediatly recognized as space marines and so not under the scutiny of the rest of the Inquisiton. 
Their first attempts were the Sisters of Silence. Psykers that controlled their Black Ships. These female soldiers had the Pariah gene more prevelent that made them excellent psykers. As they perfected their art they formed the first Sisters of Battle regiment. These soldiers were not as powerful psykers but still had some inate abilites. From there they were able to create the first female Space Marines, female soldiers of equal power to their male counterparts.
The society still recruited from outside its organization, and many SOB and Sisters of Silence know not of the society that secretly controls them. Those that do, lie at many different levels of the society and just as you become deeper involved you realize it's like an onion and you simply pulled back another level of secrecy.
And so came Chaos, using the same flaws of the Space Marines to pervert the these female warriors. Their will was extended over the millenia for some twisted purpose.
Not all of these Space Marines turned, and due to thier secretive nature, few know which side they lie on.

So, lets poke holes in this. I only read a few posts and some 40k wiki so my info is probably wrong and need some fixin.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I really hope that you don't think I'm trying to be some 'guardian of the fluff' or anything like that. I'm not disagreeing with stuff just cos i want to practice my douchery!
The new stuff you have come up with actually starts something like I was thinking about myself. Before I get to that, could I just mention what the fluff says about the Sisters of Silence (or more acurately, what I have gleaned from the fluff)? This group all have the Pariah gene, as you mention, but this makes them anti-psykers and not better psykers (did I read what you wrote right? I'm not sure). They were also in existence and fighting for the Emperor before the Horus Heresy and the Emperor's internment in the Golden Throne, so the Ordos of the Inquisition couldn't have made them as the Ordos only came into existence after the Heresy. What happened to them after that, however, is unknown, so there certainly could be a link to the Sisters of Battle that appear on the tabletop. From what has been said of the Sisters of Silence, they were incredibly loyal to the Emperor, and, probably because of this and their anti-psyker abilities, were the ones who had the most to do with the emergent Chaos threat. 
As for what I was thinking; Seeing as how spectacularly the Primarch project failed (half falling to Chaos and almost destroying the Imperium as well), I don't see anyone wanting to make any more, especially as if the God-Emperor couldn't get it right, what chance do mere mortals stand? So, the Magi-Genetors of Mars start to look at the big E's research into Astartes, or at least a very small cabal do seeing as it would be the greatest heresy to even think of trying to improve it. Anyway, for whatever reasons they fiddle the geneseed to make female SMs, probably, as you said, to make their own force of super-soldiers. I'm not sure it's feasible to link these FSMs (to coin a phrase) with the SOBs, just because of how different they would look, act, train and fight; the differences would be glaring. So, private army. Maybe an ultra-secretive FSM Custodes-type force for important Imperials? Maybe they used the Pariah gene as well? Anyway, I really hope I'm helping and not just annoying you!

GFP


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## Iron Angel (Aug 2, 2009)

I think GFP is really on to something here. +rep for you, good sir.


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## LordWaffles (Jan 15, 2008)

Raptor_00 said:


> Euphrati, she's young and tends to go for the girly things. She loves to wear dresses, make-up, get her nails done, play dress up, even kiss boys. All things usually done by little girls and not by boys.


Except in California. WOOOOAAAAH! :biggrin:


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> I really hope that you don't think I'm trying to be some 'guardian of the fluff' or anything like that. I'm not disagreeing with stuff just cos i want to practice my douchery!


The exact opposite actually..I enjoy reading your posts because they are giving me more ideas and helping me toss out things that aren't making any sense fluffwise.

On the Sisters of Silence, I do believe you are correct so they won't make the sense I want.

And it would be very heretical for a group to try and improve on the failures of the Emperor, and that's where the whisperings of chaos would come in. One of the gods, like Tzeench for instance, may have wanted to influence the forming of an FSM chapter for their own ends.

The link to the inquisition is the attempt to show a line between SOB's and FSM's. As for the formation of it before the Heresy, I was using an entry from 40Kwiki: "It is generally accepted that the Inquisition solidified into its modern form some time in the 32nd Millennium, some 800 years after the Horus Heresy, although it's the essential components and apparatus (the Black Ships, the 'Witch Hunters' of the Sisters of Silence, etc.) were active before the Heresy

Some honed fluff, closer but not there yet:
So, the gods of chaos found a man, one that was vain in the idea that he could improve the Emperors failure. He was turned to chaos and secretly began his experimentation after the heresy. The gods of chaos whispered to him, that the emperors failure was in the sex of the Astartes, so he experimented on women. He found others that began to hear the whispers as he continued his work in secret. They formed a society within the fledgling inquisition.
Soon they began to attract loyalists, fed lies that they were continuing the Emperors work. Some told to create a society of equals, both men and women; others that this was the Emperors secret work they were continuing his will; others still that they were creating an army for chaos itself. They were told the lies needed to involve them and to get what was needed to continue. The society grew and diversified, entering multiple facets of the Imperium and Inquisition.
Centuries had past and now, and the first success were used as guardians to guard the secret society that had originally arisen to create them, though few, if any, knew the purpose of the soceity other than to gain power and wealth. They were rudimentary SOB's. They were stronger than normal, able to wear power armor but unable to link to it. The process was refined time and again until they had created the first SOB's. Though the women who had been experimented upon knew little if anything of who controled them. They were fanatics for the cause of the Emperor. Some loyal SOB regiments began forming, outside the society, loyal totaly to the Emperor and untouched by chaos. Vandire himself was part of the society and his death split the loyal SOB's from those that would become the FSM's.
Later, the first FSM was created. Hundreds of thousands had died to create the first, and she was killed and disected to learn how she worked. The first led to the second, then third, until a chaper was formed.
The FSM's were trained differerntly then their SOB counterparts. Most SOB's were recruited and trained and secrety modified in ways to make them superior to normal warriors. They were fiercly loyal to the Emperor. The FSM's were bred for war and trained only for that purpose. They were indoctrined deeper into the society to be the ultimate war machine if the society was discovered.
And so again came chaos. They twisted the FSM's to chaos as the had done with the male Astartes. Though not all fell to chaos. The secrecy of the society makes it difficult to know where orders come from. Leaders held under the sway of chaos give orders to loyal troops and loyal leaders give orders to chaos troops. Both sides have helped and hurt the imperium, all at he museings of the lords of chaos.

So, lets pick at this one.


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## VanitusMalus (Jun 27, 2009)

I admit I haven't read all the threads so if this suggestion is there already, forgive it. How about you collect a Slaanesh Chaos Marine Army and say that the gift Slaanesh gave them turned them into women. It totally works for Slaanesh.

Also my wife is interested in playing and she is going to collect Eldar. I mean cause honestly they are the closet thing to a female army you can get, even closer than the Sisters of Battle


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## Fumble Tumble (Oct 3, 2008)

i like the idea mate, but it will be a lot of converting, im impressed, hope the army looks good in the end


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I really like the first two paragraphs. The first one I would, personally, change it to a rogue Mechanicus Magos who is influenced by the power that Kelbor-Hal, the Fabricator-General who lead the newly formed Dark Mech in the Heresy, gained. This person would probably be closer to where the knowledge would be kept and also have the knowledge of what it meant and how it could be used. The second paragraph, I think, is a cracking explanation of how such a society could grow. The Magos-Genetor finds a Radical Inquisitor and they join forces...
After that, I'm sorry, but I got a bit confused, so bear with me. From what I gathered the bad guys use the knowledge they have gained to form the SOBs. At this point Chaos is already a motivator. They use these women as a 'testbed' for their experiments. Because Vandire is a member of the group he gets to use the, apparently newly-discovered, SOBs as his bodyguard during the Age of Apostasy. After being taken to see the Emperor, these women, who are unaware of the Chaos influence that sparked their creation, pledge themselves to the Imperium and leave the control of their old masters, although there are some who stay and it is those who stay who are further experimented on to produce the first FSMs. Am I right? Just typing it out has cleared some of my confusion up!
I suppose that the only real points I can think of that maybe need altering, would be that the SOBs don't really have surgey nor any physical alteration. I think that the power armour they use is just made smaller and lighter. Or something... However, I see where your coming from. These women accept the surgery, but after the AoA and Vandire's death they go their own way and stop the op's, feeling they don't need them.
I think most of that was me just talking to myself! I like this new one, Raptor. It gives an origin for the SOBs, and even gives added depth to Vandire's story. He is normally portrayed as a lone madman, but one who was God-Emperor fearing. But what if he was egged-on by this shadowy Chaos group? So, I suppose, the only real change would be to set a time for when this Chaos cabal started their schemes. Too soon after the Heresy and the time-gap between starting the experiments and their fruition is too great; it's hard to do, but surely they wouldn't take more than a millenium to get it right?
When Chaos was pushed back into the EoT, the Imperium entered something of a Golden Age. If the plan starts maybe 2500-300 years later, it might be a cunning way to see how complacency and hubris overtakes the lessons that people have learned about Chaos and how the quick path to power it offers is not what it seems. 

GFP


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## Chocobuncle (Feb 5, 2009)

Haven't read some of the recent posts but just throwing this out there if it isnt already

There was already an all Woman organization that predates the Horus Heresy called the Sisters of Silence, read the fluff on them in Lexicanum http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sisters_of_silence and thought why not say that they're actually a legion some how *normally would make good fluff but been up for 2 days so im tired* created from a female Primarch who was yet to be found or was one of the two missing Primarch and legions because of the current date even the Sisters of Silence are unknown that it could actually be one of the missing legions *if the "organization" ever was a legion

Plus the pictures at Lexicanum of them are soo kool


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> I really like the first two paragraphs. The first one I would, personally, change it to a rogue Mechanicus Magos who is influenced by the power that Kelbor-Hal, the Fabricator-General who lead the newly formed Dark Mech in the Heresy, gained. This person would probably be closer to where the knowledge would be kept and also have the knowledge of what it meant and how it could be used. The second paragraph, I think, is a cracking explanation of how such a society could grow. The Magos-Genetor finds a Radical Inquisitor and they join forces...
> After that, I'm sorry, but I got a bit confused, so bear with me. From what I gathered the bad guys use the knowledge they have gained to form the SOBs. At this point Chaos is already a motivator. They use these women as a 'testbed' for their experiments. Because Vandire is a member of the group he gets to use the, apparently newly-discovered, SOBs as his bodyguard during the Age of Apostasy. After being taken to see the Emperor, these women, who are unaware of the Chaos influence that sparked their creation, pledge themselves to the Imperium and leave the control of their old masters, although there are some who stay and it is those who stay who are further experimented on to produce the first FSMs. Am I right? Just typing it out has cleared some of my confusion up!
> I suppose that the only real points I can think of that maybe need altering, would be that the SOBs don't really have surgey nor any physical alteration. I think that the power armour they use is just made smaller and lighter. Or something... However, I see where your coming from. These women accept the surgery, but after the AoA and Vandire's death they go their own way and stop the op's, feeling they don't need them.
> I think most of that was me just talking to myself! I like this new one, Raptor. It gives an origin for the SOBs, and even gives added depth to Vandire's story. He is normally portrayed as a lone madman, but one who was God-Emperor fearing. But what if he was egged-on by this shadowy Chaos group? So, I suppose, the only real change would be to set a time for when this Chaos cabal started their schemes. Too soon after the Heresy and the time-gap between starting the experiments and their fruition is too great; it's hard to do, but surely they wouldn't take more than a millenium to get it right?
> ...


My last post was a little confussing to even myself, as I was tired while doing it. But, I think you nailed it exactly on the head as to what I had in my mind. So, I think that combo of my last and your last posts will make fluff.
I'll type up a story and post it in homebrew fluff section sometime down the road. My basic ideas are formed and that's what I needed. Now to create names of groups and people to flesh this story out even more...but that will be down the road too.

I got my first test model from e-bay yesterdy so I'm gonna start working on her now in fact. When she's done I'll post her in the modeling section.

I appreciate everyones inputs on this, especcially you GFP.

Hopefully in a few weeks I can have some more permanent stuff up in the other sections.


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## Death Shroud (Mar 1, 2008)

The Horus Heresy books have examples of "Gene enhanced" soldiers (see "Legion"), humans that have been selectively bred over generations to be bigger, more powerful and generally better soldiers. 
Perhaps a powerful inquisitor Lord has recruited a private guard from a world which has a Matriarchal society. Powerful enhanced female warriors equipped with the finest equipment that the Inquisition can buy (power armour and Boltguns).


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## Sister_Seraphim (Aug 13, 2009)

You could just as easily say they're "like" Space Marines. Someone attempts to copy the Space Marine geneseed / implants, but winds up with a process that only works on the female genetic profile. Or, perhaps the process starts when they're not yet born, and since we all technically start out as females... blickity blam, the process "locks them in" and you get female "Space Marines."

There's always the "isolated star system reverse engineers Space Marine creation methods with geneseed sample and creates new implants that just happen to work best with the female maturation cycle", though the Inquisition would be hot on their tails when word got around that someone jerked around with what's essentially the Emperor's living genetic legacy.

Or they could be Chaos-spawned female Space Marines, since Chaos can do pretty much whatever the heck it wants in terms of making new CSMs, particularly when it comes to Slaanesh. Then just say they decided to rebel and turned Imperial, playing some vital role in some vital battle / campaign so profoundly that at least some portions of the Imperium / Adeptus Astartes said "hey, these girls are alright." Maybe with some Adepta Sororitas saint purifying them of the taint of Chaos during the final battle or whatever.

Or you could just nix the entire "Space Marines must be male" thing and create a female Space Marine chapter. I seriously doubt anyone's going to yell at your daughter because she didn't adhere strictly to the fluff.

Just some idearz. I assume this is all more for your benefit than your daughters! XD


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Sister_Seraphim said:


> ....I seriously doubt anyone's going to yell at your daughter because she didn't adhere strictly to the fluff.
> 
> Just some idearz. I assume this is all more for your benefit than your daughters! XD


Well, knowing my daughter she'd probably kick anyone who did yell at her. (to much of her mother in her)

As for it being more for me. Maybe. I'll enjoy the conversion, I'll enjoy writting the fluff, and enjoy playing the army if she wants to play or not. But, even if she doesn't play, she does enjoy stories. So I can always use my fuffy stories to tell her at night. And if she does play, same deal. Besides, what kid doesn't like to hear bed time stories about something they are interested in?
It'll be fun for both of us and that's the reason I'm doing it.


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## IronFortress (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi there,

Sound like you are looking for the same things I am in a softer fluffier army. I think you're on the right track and the number of suggestions from others certainly is workable. I think I like the idea of Slannesh the most. Though I don't think you're looking for a renegade Chapter or traitor Legion. I'm sure we all have our own ideas big and small on how FSM could happen. I would love to see what models you are using as well as read some of the fluffs on your ideas.

If you wouldn't mind taking a look at my ideas on the Oath Guards, I would love to hear about your feedbacks too. I took the route of Women being Space Marines from the start and was deleted from the records to 'protect' the organization.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

As for models, I picked up a single loyal space marine (got to love e-bay) and converted her a little. I shaved her legs and repositioned thenm to a slightly less wide stance. I also shaved her armor from her armpit to her belt down to give an impression of smaller waist, larger hips and larer chest. Then painted her pink. I don't have a female head laying around so I just painted the helmet and left it detached for now.

The problems I already see are: 
Time - one model took a lot of time doing it by hand, using a dremel was faster but a screw up is hard to fix.
Look - I see why people add huge breasts. It's had to make her look very female by herself. Looking at her alone she looks like a regular SM, next to a SM she looks a little female though. (However this is great for a secret origins story line)
Cost - Adding the female heads will be pricey. I think Hasstlefree had female heads with no hair available but having never sculpted hair I'm nervous to try. So that means stealing heads from female minis that cost around $10.00 each (Reaper has some nice ones I've been eyeing)









Here is the prototype of the "Harpies" chapter. She needs a bit of touch-up and highlighting yet. Base isn't complete, and some sloppyness needs to be fixed.









And a comparison to a CSM

I'd love to hear some of your fluff. I haven't really worked any further on mine...was working on the prototype.


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## IronFortress (Aug 16, 2009)

I really like the proportion of the model. Personally I think it came out rather well. If you think it takes too long shaving each model, perhaps you could make molds of your finished ladies and cast your own custome pieces. 

As for the heads, I would look into examples from Metroid or Bubblegum Crisis.

Just find/get/make 3-5 different ones and mix/match them for some unique looks.

As for reading my little creation, here is the link over to the Homebrew section - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43964


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## TAUfanatic (Jun 7, 2008)

well I've looked through the entire thread so I kinda know whats going on (with all the opinions and edits and such)

sounds like a cool idea,and hey its a HOBBY do whatever you want....this jsut seems like something that would be hard to do.....seeing your attempt at making a female marine it just looks more proportioned to me.....(power armor is freakin huge after all) but thats just me maybe it does work

and maybe you don't need breasts on the armor I would assume the armor is bulky enough that you couldn't even tell there are breasts......(I hope I said that right)

but yeah it seems like a cool idea,I hope for the best with you and your daughter


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## Dire Wolf (Jul 16, 2009)

Hey this isnt Dire wolf himself, its his friend. I have been doing Warhammer for 4 years and in every space marine and SoB codex it says that the SM gene seed was never compatable with the female system, so your idea to make a female SM army sounds cool but it wouldnt work. Also a female Space marine army is called SISTERS OF BATTLE!!! plus my brother works at games workshop and knows all about warhammer, and he completely agrees with me and thinks your idea is completely irellevent.


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## BloodAngelsfan (Jan 22, 2009)

Jesus christ, if you read the thread people have come up with solutions to this multiple times, a Rogue mechanicus who tampered with genetics etc. And anyway, it's to introduce her daughter to the hobby, there's no need to be so negative. (no offense to the real Dire Wolf). also, SoB are different than space marines, they have no genetic implants and are not directly connected to the power armor (and you're complaining about not compatible with the fluff?)


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

Dire Wolf said:


> Hey this isnt Dire wolf himself, its his friend. I have been doing Warhammer for 4 years and in every space marine and SoB codex it says that the SM gene seed was never compatable with the female system, so your idea to make a female SM army sounds cool but it wouldnt work. Also a female Space marine army is called SISTERS OF BATTLE!!! plus my brother works at games workshop and knows all about warhammer, and he completely agrees with me and thinks your idea is completely irellevent.


Ok, no offense...but your your ideas, and your brothers are comletely irrelivent. Wait no, offense ment.

This IS a female space marine army. If you had bothered to read the first post, you would understand that I don't care about that aspect. This post was simply a way of makeing a female army for people who aren't sexist by saying the female body is to "weak" to support the SM gene. By 40k, gene manipulation is a greater possibility than now. There is no reason to think it couldn't be done unless of coarse you don't think women are equals to men.

Secondly, this is an army for a little girl to play. MY little girl. Starting out she may not be able to handle the strategy needed to play SOB's. SM are easier to play. They are more straightforward. Perfect for younger people. Thus the reason of SM popularity. Using the same army as SOB's after she has gotten better at 40k is a money saving tactic. FSM=girls in power armor, SOB=girls in power armor. I doubt you will tell a little girl her army isn't possible. She'll probably toss yours off the table and ask what's possible now.

Ok, rant over. I just hate hearing people saying things are impossible with plastic men, in the future, with aliens, and magic, and psykic powers, demons, gods, monsters, and robots. Just sounds silly saying something is not possible with all those "absolute truths" in the game.

Oh yes, and before you ask...yeah, I am a little salty on this.


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## Raptor_00 (Mar 17, 2008)

TAUfanatic said:


> ...sounds like a cool idea,and hey its a HOBBY do whatever you want....this jsut seems like something that would be hard to do.....seeing your attempt at making a female marine it just looks more proportioned to me.....(power armor is freakin huge after all) but thats just me maybe it does work
> 
> and maybe you don't need breasts on the armor I would assume the armor is bulky enough that you couldn't even tell there are breasts......(I hope I said that right)...


Yeah, power armor is very stylized so that it doesn't look to wierd as a model. And I am despretly trying not to add the huge breasts to the model. Nothing wrong if you like it...I just don't.
I think adding a female head will probably make the difference. The cost aspect is what's stalling me there. Buying a nice model for $10 to chop off its head seems like a waste to me. I'm ordering some bald female heads and I'm gonna try just try adding hair (hope I can sculpt hair). That might add the bit of femaninity that I'm looking for in these models.


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## Abbo (May 30, 2008)

How about a chapter recruiting solely one solar system's multiple death worlds due to one ancient oath to Lord Commander Solar Macharius.
On his last breath,made a close friend who happened to be very influential and high in the adeptus mechanicus hierarchy swear on the Omnissiah to reward the newly formed but almost wiped out chapter for their crucial work in the crusade by giving them the recruiting rights and facilities on the system on which the primitive cultures people's fighting and survival prowess and spirit impressed him the most in the whole crusade.

Upon arriving the chapter and adeptus mechanicus found out the men had some unimportant stable non-mutant genes in the Y chromosome string that made them incompatible with the chapters geneseed.
While the women who are Amazons were compatible or maybe after some mild adoption of the geneseed.


Organs are in reallife transplanted from man to woman and from woman to man with no problems.

Btw i think you are one cool dad, being prepared to make such an effort trying to please your little girl.

Oh and lol @ Direwolfs post.


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## IronFortress (Aug 16, 2009)

I think how they evolve is less important than what their mission is and how they plan to get there. History is nice to know for why things are. If creation is not relevant to why they are doing what they do, then why can't it be Classified! Top Secret! Ultra Clearance Required! etc. etc.

I hope your daughter gets to enjoy all the aspect of the hobby. Perhaps she has her own ideas as for her own chapter. Let us know.


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