# Using Abaddon the Despoiler?



## D-A-C

Hey everyone.

Now, for a guy who has a special character tactica in his signature this is slightly embarrasing, but how the heck are you supposed to use Abaddon?

I'm working on eventually getting a 2000pt army (I have 1500 worth of models) and I want Abaddon to be the centre piece either as himself or a counts as warlord. But how the heck can you use him lol?

He is 275 points and there is no way I'm using a Land Raider as its an extra 220pts and makes the list rely on a deathstar set-up. So this only leaves realistically the option of deepstriking him with x3-4 Terminator buddies (which are already in my 1500 list anyway). I'm running a Daemon Prince at 1000/1500 so removing that and adding Abaddon minimises the extra points cost to only 100 more and as I said I run the 3 Terminators anyway at both levels.

So is he viable? Would anybody care to share experiences using Abaddon?

Also just a heads up, if you want to contribute by saying he sucks I can't stop you, but I'm just trying to figure a way to make the model work. I already kind of know that x2 Daemon Princes would be better and almost as expensive.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

Well, To be honest, I know you dont want to run the raider, but it is the only surefire way to make his points.

If you footslog him, he will just get avoided and blown to pieces.

If you DS him, you could lose him into a piece of terrain, or enemy, no more Abaddon. Or there is also the fact you deepstrike into what is probably rabid fire range, and every heavy weapon, assualt, melta, and shell the enemy has is going into him and his buddies.
Not conducive for long life.


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## D-A-C

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> Well, To be honest, I know you dont want to run the raider, but it is the only surefire way to make his points.


Good point but I don't think you need models to 'make back their points worth' if they contribute to winning the game and aiding the effectiveness of other units. Maybe make the list around him so that his DSing contributes to the overall strategy of the army?

Also I wouldn't say that you just deepstrike him into the middle of the enemy like a regular Termicide, maybe DS him onto a unit with an Icon to aid the taking of a table quarter or side? 

I can understand the Land Raider argument, but that makes the model 495pts by itself and is too expensive even for 2500ptgames IMO.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

I get the points back arguement, thats the view I hold. however, You want him to do SOMETHING, and the landraider is the best way to ensure it. Also, dont look at the land raider as just means of getting him from Point A to point B. It is still a deadly tank, and powerful enough to cause big dents on it's own. 

The Icon Idea isnt bad however.


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## Orochi

Abaddon isn't as much of a one hit wonder as you may think.

You want to avoid the LR transport? I think you're (from a DE player view) missing out on one hell of a trick here.

Place him and 4 cheapo terminator mates (just MoK would do) in a landraider and deploy on one flank.
This costs just over 600 points, and out of 2.5k, you're still left with 1900ish.

Automatically, your opponent will do 1 of 2 things. Ignore/avoid abaddon OR focus on destroying him. That means getting through a LR and 4 termies first.
Both options give you the advantage of either having your opponent head down that flank, or avoiding it entirely.
Thus allowing you control of his deployment/early movement.

Most players (statistically) will favour the right hand side of the board. This it will be his stronger flank. Just bare this inmind when deciding what flank to place Abaddon on.

When the opponent shifts to or away your advance with Abaddon, you can counteract accordingly.
Fast units of KBs in Rhinos would be great at harrying and placing high pressure on his exposed flank.

600 points out of 2500 to control how your opponent moves and sets up isn't a high cost at all.


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## D-A-C

Lord Sven Kittyclaw said:


> I get the points back arguement, thats the view I hold. however, You want him to do SOMETHING, and the landraider is the best way to ensure it. Also, dont look at the land raider as just means of getting him from Point A to point B. It is still a deadly tank, and powerful enough to cause big dents on it's own.
> 
> The Icon Idea isnt bad however.





Orochi said:


> Abaddon isn't as much of a one hit wonder as you may think.
> 
> You want to avoid the LR transport? I think you're (from a DE player view) missing out on one hell of a trick here.
> 
> Place him and 4 cheapo terminator mates (just MoK would do) in a landraider and deploy on one flank.
> This costs just over 600 points, and out of 2.5k, you're still left with 1900ish.
> 
> Automatically, your opponent will do 1 of 2 things. Ignore/avoid abaddon OR focus on destroying him. That means getting through a LR and 4 termies first.
> Both options give you the advantage of either having your opponent head down that flank, or avoiding it entirely.
> Thus allowing you control of his deployment/early movement.
> 
> Most players (statistically) will favour the right hand side of the board. This it will be his stronger flank. Just bare this inmind when deciding what flank to place Abaddon on.
> 
> When the opponent shifts to or away your advance with Abaddon, you can counteract accordingly.
> Fast units of KBs in Rhinos would be great at harrying and placing high pressure on his exposed flank.
> 
> 600 points out of 2500 to control how your opponent moves and sets up isn't a high cost at all.


Ok folks I think we are actually getting somewhere here.

Right, one problem is its at 2000pt level I'm discussing at 2500 its alot easier IMO to use him.

I think maybe using him with a scoring unit and putting him in a LR might be viable; as you say that unit basically is 1/3 of the deployment zone covered. Also because Abaddon has an icon, the termicide unit and lesser daemons I use could always deepstrike onto him and his table side if he is running into trouble.

Only trouble is is that I use vanilla marines and I hate losing that 2nd special weapon when reducing the squad to 9.


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## Lord Sven Kittyclaw

hmm..Well I wouldnt recommend running him in a vanilla squad, because he belongs in an assault, and other units can assault better then 'nilla marines.


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## Orochi

Use my idea, but at 2k, put him with KBs.

This makes the unit scoring and as one of probably 3-4 scoring units in your army, a threat he MUST deal with, or focus EVERYTHING on the other scoring units.

It's all about control. Control what he shoots at, control where he moves. Game is yours.


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## Fallen

i honestly wouldnt use him unless its an apoc game or a friendly where he wouldnt count against points (like if hes going against calgar/etc)

however i have seen some1 run him in a very interesting 2k list, it was 40 PMs (champs & gear) with rhinos, abaddon & like 7 MoN termies DSing. he did fairly well but it IS a 1 shot style of play. not sure if your interested in that.


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## louisshli

I totally agree w/ Orochi. Special characters have many advantages besides throwing them into the heat of an assault. They give your opponent something extra to think about, be it in deployment, movement, shooting &/or assaulting. Also, the way you control your special character(s) during the game will at most times pull your opponent's focus away from some of your seemingly less dangerous units. This will allow your troops to better capture objectives or leave one of their units exposed in the open where your heavy support(s) can mow them down while they attempt to assault your special character.

Although I'm not a Chaos player, but I can easily see the Sanguinor from BA being used the same way. Points-wise they both cost the same but the benefit of Abaddon over the golden boy is that he's independent, so you can protect him by a retinue or Terminator bodyguards. 

Special characters, while being center-piece models in your army shouldn't be considered as almighty and expected/relied on to win you the game. Their presence usually allows your regular units to do their job better.... 

It'll take a really good round of shooting to take out Abaddon, and that's considering your opponent focusing all on him. So think about the freedom your other units will have during this time.... and position wisely.


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## Vrykolas2k

I don't use Abaddon due to the fact I don't play that Legion, but a friend of mine does.
His tactic is to put Abaddon in a squad of MoT terminators and deep-strike them, often with a TzeentchTerminator Sorcerer.
Points-heavy, but it works pretty well. People end up concentrating inordinate amounts of fire on that bunch, and often some survive.


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## D-A-C

Here what I'll do is post my current 1500pt list and see if he can be used successfully to aid the army with its jump to 2000pts. Now just to let you all know, winning all the time isn't important, but losing all the time isn't going to be fun either. If I could end up with a list that could be taken to a tournament and have a chance, with some good tactics and a little luck to be placed decently, if not necessarily 1st.

My current army is usually something like this:

*HQ *

Daemon Prince, Wings, MOT, Warptime, 175pts

*
ELITES*

5 CSM Terminators, Champion, x1 Chainfist, IOCG, x3 Combi-Plasmas, x1 Combi-Melta, x1 Reaper Autocannon, 230pts

CSM Dreadnought, Twin-Linked Lascannon, CCW + Heavy Flamer, EA, 130pts

*
TROOPS

*10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, Combi-Plasma, 275pts

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, IOCG, x1 Plasma Gun, x1 Heavy Bolter, Rhino, Havoc Launcher, 275pts

10 Lesser Daemons, 130pts 


*HEAVY SUPPORT

*CSM Predator, Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Havoc Launcher, 145pts

CSM Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts


So I suppose, Abaddon and a Land Raider could be added (obviously replacing the Daemon Prince) for 320pts (after removing DP cost), leaving me 180pts to spend elsewhere. Or I could replace the Champion Terminator, with the Chainfist/Combi-Melta and either place that squad in a Land Raider or still deepstrike them and I'd save slightly more points. 

Any ideas?


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## Deathscythe4722

I would advise against Deepstriking him for several reasons:

-Doesn't restrict opponents deployment/movement
-Relies on Icons to land safely. Opponent can prevent icons from getting close if he has enough AT fire.
-No guarantee he will enter when you need him. Turn 2 Icons might not be close enough, turn 4/5 icons might be dead, or in useless positions.
-Can't assault the turn he drops, giving your opponent a full turn to counter him.

His unit will make up around 1/6 of your list at 2k points at minimum, and deepstriking that large a unit all in one clump could be disasterous. Even if they land safely, you can't guarantee they'll be anywhere useful.


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## b.anthracis

The fact which I really don't like about Abbadon, is that he carries a daemon weapon. Sure it gives him +d6 attacks, but on the other hand gives you a 1 in 6 chance of not attacking at all. Which means on the charge you'll loose 5 strength 8 attacks. This is for a 275 pts model unacceptable. If I have such a model I am going to charge tough units with him, and if he fails completely this means my whole unit can be wiped out...


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## Dugong

There is one use for abbadon which has not been discussed yet but has strong potential. So far everyone has discussed abbadons ability so smash face and he's very good at it, so naturally everyone has offered ways to get him into your opponents lines and wreak havok. 

Abbadon is a great threat, the moment people see his potential they would immediately prioritise him if he gets anywhere near them. The discussion thus far has mostly been to either run him in a land raider and charge in, DS in and weather the return fire or use him to waste firepower on a far flank. However the question is, why do we want him to be in the middle of _their_ lines?

One option i've seen is to attach abbadon to a unit of thousand sons and sit on a home objective. As long as you de mech your opponent appropriately you should have no troubles holding the objective. No marine would want to get near that thing due to AP3 bolter fire, the TS champ who could have winds of chaos which denys cover and armor saves, effectively stopping any footslopping scoring marine getting close. But abbadon scares away anyone trying to contest and many dedicated cc units since abbadon covers the TS weakness of poor cc ability. Because it would take a great effort to get through abbadon and a unit of TS in cc since the everyone has a 4++ invun and abbadon is a monster.

This can translate into your army by having him accompany one of your standard csm units, but if you're moving to 2000pts try to find a way to get a unit of thousand sons in either by removing a few toys from other units (so your 2000 pt army could be your 1500 pt army + abbadon + a TS unit - a few upgrades to other units or your 1500pt army - a csm unit + abbadon + TS unit + other stuff)

So if you're playing objectives, which is 2/3 of the time, get him to sit back, relax and scare the opponent from getting near. If it's kill points, then you have the choice to attach him to your terminators if you want. Either way abbadon can be used very effectively defensively and could be used to take the pressure off the rear of your army such that the rest can push forward with more aggression.


Either way, just play a few matches and see how it goes.


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## bishop5

Dugong said:


> One option i've seen is to attach abbadon to a unit of thousand sons and sit on a home objective. As long as you de mech your opponent appropriately you should have no troubles holding the objective. No marine would want to get near that thing due to AP3 bolter fire, the TS champ who could have winds of chaos which denys cover and armor saves, effectively stopping any footslopping scoring marine getting close. But abbadon scares away anyone trying to contest and many dedicated cc units since abbadon covers the TS weakness of poor cc ability. Because it would take a great effort to get through abbadon and a unit of TS in cc since the everyone has a 4++ invun and abbadon is a monster.


It's a good idea, but that's a hell of a lot of points just sitting there looking scary!

You risk not supporting the units you have attacking the enemy objective/s - if he's in the mix in the opponents half of the table, he's much harder to ignore.


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## D-A-C

Basically, I spent an awful long time trying to argue that Abaddon doesn't smack himself with his Daemon Weapon according to the rules written in his profile. That debate can be found here : http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75395

Long story short, I largely failed (even though I still think I'm right).

So your paying 275pts for a character that potentially does nothing 1/6 of the time, and lets face it, when you don't want to roll a 1, you tend to never roll anything but 1 lol.

Therefore Abaddon is competitively unusable. It's really that simple. If he can enter combat with the risk of doing nothing, and worse, actually hurting himself then he is useless.

A Daemon Prince gives you most of the same stats, except for 3 less Strength, but it can get Wings and an amazing psychic power (Warptime) for 100 odd points cheaper. 

In his current form, there really is no use for Abaddon. That is actually really sad when you think about it.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

D-A-C said:


> Therefore Abaddon is competitively unusable. It's really that simple. If he can enter combat with the risk of doing nothing, and worse, actually hurting himself then he is useless.


So he's just like a normal Chaos Lord with a Deamon Weapon? The Deamon Weapon rules were poorly thought out, that is the bottom line.


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## Vrykolas2k

D-A-C said:


> Basically, I spent an awful long time trying to argue that Abaddon doesn't smack himself with his Daemon Weapon according to the rules written in his profile. That debate can be found here : http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75395
> 
> Long story short, I largely failed (even though I still think I'm right).
> 
> So your paying 275pts for a character that potentially does nothing 1/6 of the time, and lets face it, when you don't want to roll a 1, you tend to never roll anything but 1 lol.
> 
> Therefore Abaddon is competitively unusable. It's really that simple. If he can enter combat with the risk of doing nothing, and worse, actually hurting himself then he is useless.
> 
> A Daemon Prince gives you most of the same stats, except for 3 less Strength, but it can get Wings and an amazing psychic power (Warptime) for 100 odd points cheaper.
> 
> In his current form, there really is no use for Abaddon. That is actually really sad when you think about it.




Completely unusable?!
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Sorry, but I think not.
Even though in this pissant edition he does have a chance of not being able to attack, it's a slight chance, realistically speaking.
I've seen him tear up to much stuff to buy into the "unusable" crap.


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## LordWaffles

He is currently being used to hold down papers.

Sometimes he can't even do this job correctly.


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll

LordWaffles said:


> He is currently being used to hold down papers.
> 
> Sometimes he can't even do this job correctly.


A 1/6th of the time?


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## LordWaffles

Wolf_Lord_Skoll said:


> A 1/6th of the time?


Every sixth time I open the door to my office he just drops every paper that was under him. I can't believe I paid 275 points for this when Archaeon holds down his papers ALL the time!


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## Nyustukyi

The only time I have ever heard of Abbadon being used correctly, he always has a Termy body guard, or Zerker Squad at the least.

Personally I would jus tlove to run him with 4 MoK Termies with LC. Just to see how scary that would be. Even though that is like a 1000 pts squad. Lol


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## flankman

I liked to DS him WITH oblits that way you can land those short range shots with out bieng afraid of getting charged

so they are forced to either ignore them (or shoot them alot wich helps the rest of the army) or charging abbadon + 3 power fists

also abby can always split off from the group if the enemies are near


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## PROxASSASSINx

I am a Tau player and I don't consider Abbadon to be a threat no matter how you decide to field him. Whether he Deep Strikes in or is placed in a land raider I consider him to be a major waste of points for any Chaos player. Abbadon has 4 wounds and a 4+ invol. save, so on average it would take only 8 rail gun shots to finish him off. It costs roughly 660 points to field 9 Broadside battle suits who each have twin-linked railguns and twin linked plasma rifles. Both of which penetrate his armour and will have a 50% chance of causing a wound. (Due to his invol. save which was previously mentioned) To field Abby, a land raider and 3-4 terminators it costs about 650 points. For virtually the same number of points a Tau player can destroy any Abbadon combination with relative ease. Conclusion being, don't try to use Abbadon against any semi-competent Tau player or you will lose horribly.


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## mcmuffin

I am glad that tau have such an easy time killing everything then. Except for the fact that you are fielding units of models that cam be easily avoided by any good player. Terrain should deny two out of three units a clear line of sight, and any shooting wounds can be allocated to Abaddon's bodyguard unit. Maybe if you play someone who is retarded enough to field Abaddon on his own you can kill him, but he should be in combat before his bodyguard is dead. And face it, if tau are in combat, they lose. Dont be so quick to assume your plan will work against every chaos player.


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## D-A-C

Yikes this is an old thread lol! I'm actually going to give you rep for posting on it because it showed you actually bothered to search the forum rather than starting up a thread that has been discussed.




mcmuffin said:


> Maybe if you play someone who is retarded enough to field Abaddon on his own you can kill him, but he should be in combat before his bodyguard is dead. And face it, if tau are in combat, they lose. Dont be so quick to assume your plan will work against every chaos player.


McMuffin pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one:goodpost:




PROxASSASSINx said:


> To field Abby, a land raider and 3-4 terminators it costs about 650 points. For virtually the same number of points a Tau player can destroy any Abbadon combination with relative ease. Conclusion being, don't try to use Abbadon against any semi-competent Tau player or you will lose horribly.


What you also have to understand as well is that 600+ points isn't being invested in Abaddon in anything less than 2000pt games, so that means there is usually still 1400+pts of enemies other than him and his Land Raider buddies.

You have to take into account how much fire and attention he is drawing away from them.

8-10 Khorn Berzerkers in a Rhino might look like child's play sitting beside Abaddon and his pimped out retinue and land raider. But if they make it to the Tau lines, they will still tear you a new one.


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## mcmuffin

My tactic for using abaddon involves 8 berzerkers abd a posessed land raider. Move 12 first turn, pop smoke, 2nd turn, move 12 disembark 2 charge 6, pribably get a triple multicharge off, then kill everything. Abaddon needs to be used as a deathstar, because tyat is how he works.


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## PROxASSASSINx

@ mcmuffin. True, broadside shooting can be easily avoided but if you are trying to bring a massive landraider down to the opponents table edge there will me many opportunities to get shots off no matter how you move it. Even if you do manage to get Abbadon in CC with a group of broadsides there would still be another two squads of three to worry about. So as soon as Abbadon brutalizes the one squad he will be a sitting duck during my next shooting phase. (due to the fact that you can't consolidate into combat anymore :grin There will also be a bunch of soft kroot squads sitting infront of my more valuable units who will be meat shields that will once again give me an extra shooting phase to destroy Abbadon or other targets. And don't get me started on 65 point piranahs equiped with fusion blasters who will go on tank hunting missions so CSM troops will have to footslogg the rest of the way...11 armour rhinos don't last long against Str 8 Ap 1 meltas... Now on to D-A-S's comment. I understand what you are saying about there being 1400+ extra points left over. That works for both sides (Abbadon + posse= 650 points, Broadsides x3 = 660) With those extra 1400 points i can field a plethera of Anti tank piranahs ( did i mention I can have a squad of them 5 of them for a little over 300 points...310 to be exact) So with the broadsides and those 5 piranahs i still have over 1000 points left to invest in a number of crisis battle suits, Commander battle suits, fire warrior meat shields, kroot meat shields and even some devilfish for some extra mobility. The Tau do have a some what effective CC hero, I found out about him and I used used him in my last game against Space wolves and he single handly took out a 5 man terminator squad, he is a real hidden treasure for the Tau and he is pretty inexpensive for what he does.


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## mcmuffin

You obviously played a shit space wolf player then. How long did your broadsides last in that game?

I could argue over every point you made, but i will let you live in a lovely little fantasy of Tau being fantastic. Lets pit Nids Chaos and Tau against each other, it could be battle of the bottom tier codices.


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## Ravner298

I don't see tau as a threat, even as CSM.

I cant imagine a SW perspective.


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## PROxASSASSINx

The space wolf player used his drop pod and took out 2 of my 3 broadside battle suits with jaws of the world wolf first turn. His Terminators just couldn't handle Commander Farsight and his 4 wounds, WS 5, I 5, 5 attacks on the charge with a power weapon and a 4+ invol. save for only 170 points. 

What do you mean by bottom tier codices? If your meaning the Tau codex sucks that might be due to the fact that the last one was released 6 years ago. 

With update coming for the Tau I'm exited to see the rail guns get updated so they can shoot through multiple targets and pen multiple vehicles.


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## mcmuffin

The SW perspective on tau is Jaws, missiles, charge, tabled. 

Farsight should not be a big deal to kill really, grey hunters should take him down with ease. 3+ save, no grenades, WS 5? SW terminators are an uncompetitive choice.


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## XT-1984

Part of using Abaddon is psychological, sure he could just poke himself in the eye with Drach'nyen. But he could also dish out eleven Attacks on a charge and wipe whole squads out on his own.

Some opponents will do their best to not engage him. In objective games you can use this to your advantage by having him near an objective. Then your opponent has to deal with him or lose the game. 

I see him working like the Chaos Vindicator, I don't know about you, but the Vindicator isn't really all that great. But no one I play will put anything within 24" of it untill it is dead.


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## PROxASSASSINx

Me and my gaming group always play the annihilation game type. XT-1984 you made a good point, Abbadon would be a problem if you hid him behind a building near an objective, but frankly I have never had to face him that way before. I have always been able to set up my very effective Tau gunline and pincer any opponent who tries to advance or deep strike.


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## mcmuffin

That makes sense, Tau don't suffer quite as badly in annihilation, but they suffer in the more tactical game modes, such as seize ground.


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## MidnightSun

PROxASSASSINx said:


> @ mcmuffin. True, broadside shooting can be easily avoided but if you are trying to bring a massive landraider down to the opponents table edge there will me many opportunities to get shots off no matter how you move it. Except it can move 14" in the first tun and pop smoke. Second turn it moves 6", Abaddon gets out 2" from the ramp, moves 6", assaults 6". Assuming a 12" deployment zone, he's gone 34" in two turns. If you destroy the Land Raider on the third turn, he's still in assault range. Even if you do manage to get Abbadon in CC with a group of broadsides there would still be another two squads of three to worry about So you have no Hammerheads, which is great since Obliterators now have many more interesting targets to shoot at.. So as soon as Abbadon brutalizes the one squad he will be a sitting duck during my next shooting phase. (due to the fact that you can't consolidate into combat anymore :grin Unless you survive the one round. Then you're screwed. There will also be a bunch of soft kroot squads sitting infront of my more valuable units who will be meat shields that will once again give me an extra shooting phase to destroy Abbadon or other targets. A canny player mows down Kroot before Abaddon arrives. Bolters mow down Kroot awfully quickly. And don't get me started on 65 point piranahs equiped with fusion blasters who will go on tank hunting missions so CSM troops will have to footslogg the rest of the way...11 armour rhinos don't last long against Str 8 Ap 1 meltas... Meh, at 2k points there's equal/more Rhinos on the table than Piranhas. Now on to D-A-S's comment. I understand what you are saying about there being 1400+ extra points left over. That works for both sides (Abbadon + posse= 650 points, Broadsides x3 = 660) With those extra 1400 points i can field a plethera of Anti tank piranahs ( did i mention I can have a squad of them 5 of them for a little over 300 points...310 to be exact Great, you shoot my Rhino with 5 Meltaguns. Just how dead did you need me to be?) So with the broadsides and those 5 piranahs i still have over 1000 points left to invest in a number of crisis battle suits, Commander battle suits, fire warrior meat shields, kroot meat shields and even some devilfish for some extra mobility. The Tau do have a some what effective CC hero Pfff, I found out about him and I used used him in my last game against Space wolves and he single handly took out a 5 man terminator squad, he is a real hidden treasure for the Tau and he is pretty inexpensive for what he does.Ok, so he kills stuff in combat! And he shoots stuff with Plasma! Isn't he just great? Well, no, he isn't, because you can't take Kroot any more. Oh, and it's a 3 Broadside cap for you. And 1 Hammerhead. And 1 Piranha squadron. Doesn't look so good anymore, does he?


So, with your 1 Hammerhead, 3 Broadsides, 5 Piranhas-that-only-kill-one-thing-per-turn, you remove two Rhinos first turn (1 Wrecked, 1 Explodes, and one Weapon Destroyed/Shaken for argument's sake). Now I shoot back. 3 Plasma Cannons kill all the Shield Drones on the Broadsides. 3 Lascannons blow up the Hammerhead. 3 TL-Meltaguns, and the Melta fire from my surviving Rhinos, destroy those Piranhas as they're in Melta range. You've removed 80 points of my army and lost around 350 of your own, losing a significant chunk of anti-tank ability and your remaining Railguns are looking very vulnerable now that the Shield Drones are down.

Sorry to turn this into a Tactica Wars post but I really needed to point out the flaws in this post.

Midnight

EDIT: Try playing Objectives. It's a lot more challenging.


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## Skari

Is this still about abby?

He is a beatstick.


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## mcmuffin

MidnightSun said:


> EDIT: Try playing Objectives. It's a lot more challenging.


Bingo


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## PROxASSASSINx

I will have to try playing some objective based games soon. Because so far I'm 9-0 with my Tau army. Iv'e beaten IG, Nids, SW, Blood Angels and CSM with Abbadon and I have lost very few broadsides/hammerheads in doing so. "Now I shoot back. 3 Plasma Cannons kill all the Shield Drones on the Broadsides. 3 Lascannons blow up the Hammerhead. 3 TL-Meltaguns, and the Melta fire from my surviving Rhinos, destroy those Piranhas as they're in Melta range. In all the games I have played no one has ever come close to doing that much damage with shooting in an entire game let alone in one turn.


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## PROxASSASSINx

"Ok, so he kills stuff in combat! And he shoots stuff with Plasma! Isn't he just great? Well, no, he isn't, because you can't take Kroot any more. Oh, and it's a 3 Broadside cap for you. And 1 Hammerhead. And 1 Piranha squadron. Doesn't look so good anymore, does he?" He still looks good to me. I'm undefeated with him so I guess he works, and I have beaten two Abbadon armies using this strategy. So, Yes I will take a Tau hero who can kill stuff in CC and has the addition of extra Ap 2 plasma shots.


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## Ravner298

> The SW perspective on tau is Jaws, missiles, charge, tabled.


Bread and butter tactica for SW I hear!



> Me and my gaming group always play the annihilation game type. XT-1984 you made a good point, Abbadon would be a problem if you hid him behind a building near an objective, but frankly I have never had to face him that way before. I have always been able to set up my very effective Tau gunline and pincer any opponent who tries to advance or deep strike.


Now it's making more sense. You sit in the corner and gun people down as they walk up to you. You probably are one of those tau that just start their turns out in the shooting phase. 2/3 of games are objective based, I suggest learning how to play your list accordingly. Annihilation is a joke!


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## PROxASSASSINx

Tau+Objectives=Devilfish...I'm ready to capture points :victory:


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## mcmuffin

PROxASSASSINx said:


> Tau+Objectives=Devilfish...I'm ready to capture points :victory:


Try capturing an objective with a unit of Grey Hunters on it using that strategy buddy, see how it turns out. Honestly, you should try objective modes, because annihilation is a great pile of wank, requires no tactical thinking and can be won with a total DERP list.


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## XT-1984

Please start a new topic if you want to talk about Space Wolves and Tau...

On topic: Most people seem to agree that the best way to use Abaddon is with four Terminators or eight Khorne Berzerkers in a Landraider. But what about Deepstriking? A unit of ten Chaos Terminators (for almost the same price as the unit with Landraider) Deepstriking within 6" of an Icon so they don't scatter.

Do you think it can work? Behind some good cover then Run into it? Or next to a unit of CSM and use two Reaper Autocannons, the Combi-Meltas or Combi-Flamers to toast a unit of your choice?

The thing I dread about using Abaddon in a big Terminator unit is if he hits himself with Drach'nyen, and then his Terminators get badly beaten by Incubi, Assault Terminators, Lychguard or something like them. Then he falls back and either gets killed in a Sweeping Advance or will be under half strength so won't be able to rally.

Besides the Icon of Chaos Undivided, are there any good ideas how to improve the hardiness of the units Morale?


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## MidnightSun

PROxASSASSINx said:


> "Ok, so he kills stuff in combat! And he shoots stuff with Plasma! Isn't he just great? Well, no, he isn't, because you can't take Kroot any more. Oh, and it's a 3 Broadside cap for you. And 1 Hammerhead. And 1 Piranha squadron. Doesn't look so good anymore, does he?" He still looks good to me. I'm undefeated with him so I guess he works, and I have beaten two Abbadon armies using this strategy. So, Yes I will take a Tau hero who can kill stuff in CC and has the addition of extra Ap 2 plasma shots.


But you said you used 9 Broadsides and Kroot... so either you haven't played many games with Farsight, you cheat, or you play against crap armies (Farsight isn't even amazingly good in combat - he'll get beaten up by any Chaos character except perhaps Lucius, most Space Wolf characters; hell, many basic HQ units). Farsight's not a bad character apart from the fact that he takes away Broadsides, Hammerheads, Kroot and Piranhas.

And you say that you can capture objectives with FW in a Devilfish. Great! How much is that costing you again? Nothing less than 120pts, which is what it costs me for 5 CSM with a Meltagun in a Chaos Rhino.



PROxASSASSINx said:


> I will have to try playing some objective based games soon. Because so far I'm 9-0 with my Tau army. Iv'e beaten IG, Nids, SW, Blood Angels and CSM with Abbadon and I have lost very few broadsides/hammerheads in doing so. "Now I shoot back. 3 Plasma Cannons kill all the Shield Drones on the Broadsides. 3 Lascannons blow up the Hammerhead. 3 TL-Meltaguns, and the Melta fire from my surviving Rhinos, destroy those Piranhas as they're in Melta range. In all the games I have played no one has ever come close to doing that much damage with shooting in an entire game let alone in one turn.


I think that you're playing crap players if you've played nine games and never lost a Hammerhead, 6 T4 Infantry models and 5 AV11 open-topped skimmers that are designed to operate within a 6" range, or equivalent (especially since you're fighting Guard. What's he doing, 30 Ogryns?). Oh, and the fact that you use the plural of Hammerhead makes me think that you're violating the Breakaway Faction rule. Might want to change that.

OP - Sorry to derail your thread.

Midnight


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## Ravner298

Well I mean, coming into a thread about using chaos's posterboy effectively and saying 'dont bother because my tau wreck him and here's how' is generally bad form, and any ire drawn from CSM players is well deserved.

That being said is it safe to say the "best" way to run abby is a possessed LR with 8 zerkers? It's not 'competative' but its as close as you can get running him.

I do like the idea of DS'ing him with 10 termies mentioned above.....even if it'll just be avoided or shot to pieces  Not like it'll be a competative game with him in it anyway!


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## mcmuffin

Abaddon gets his ass handed to him by other special characters. Logan Grimnar destroys him pretty easily, Mephiston does it with ease, as does his royal assness Kaldor Draigo.


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## Ravner298

> Logan Grimnar destroys him pretty easily


Did they change anything about logan in the last book? I remeber years ago when the 2nd edition SW book dropped (It was 2nd, right?) I used to have some pretty epic combats with abby and crew vs. logan and crew with my buddy. Seemed pretty even to me


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## PROxASSASSINx

I use two lists one with Farsight one without farsight


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## MidnightSun

I don't think it's too one-sided with Logan vs. Abaddon - Abaddon has slightly less defensive capacity due to his 4+ invulnerable, but then again the Despoiler has a Power Fist that strikes at I6 with potentially ten attacks.

Midnight


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## D-A-C

MidnightSun said:


> I don't think it's too one-sided with Logan vs. Abaddon - Abaddon has slightly less defensive capacity due to his 4+ invulnerable, but then again the Despoiler has a Power Fist that strikes at I6 with potentially ten attacks.
> 
> Midnight


Abaddon has eternal warrior as well though. Does Logan? I've never faced him.

Plus he is Toughness 5 thanks to Mark of Nurgle, so he is a tough cookie.


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## XT-1984

Logan always Hits on a 3+ and would use Prefered Enemy every turn against Abaddon. He is an Eternal Warrior but he does only have three Wounds. 

Personally I think it'd be a close fight unless Abaddon rolled a one with Drach'nyen.


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## Kevlar

Why not put a lash sorcerer in Abby's unit if you are going to deep strike? Or at least have the lash sorcerer nearby in a rhino so that people can't just walk away from the terminators? 

I run two lash sorcs in rhinos full of berzerkers, and it is ridiculous how easy it is to pull people to me and then assault them.


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## MidnightSun

Abaddon has the same Strength as Logan, and doesn't re-roll hits, but has more attacks and re-rolls wounds. His invulnerables save's only one worse, and he strikes first. I think that he'd kick Logan's ass, even if he does take a few wound doing it.

Midnight


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## Katie Drake

MidnightSun said:


> Abaddon has the same Strength as Logan, and doesn't re-roll hits, but has more attacks and re-rolls wounds. His invulnerables save's only one worse, and he strikes first. I think that he'd kick Logan's ass, even if he does take a few wound doing it.
> 
> Midnight


Logan would lose yeah, especially since he only has 3 wounds to Abaddon's 4.


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## shaantitus

This might sound a little strange but i have had abby work well in a cc heavy csm list deepstriking. The thing is there was another target that also drew the opponents attention. I had kharn in a rhino with a squad of zerks, 2 more squads of zerks and 3 defilers, a dread(cc) and a squad of terminators to assist abby. The zerks all had icons. When you have unit up in the opponents face across the line the panic that sets in is only enhanced by the arrival of abby.


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## Sephyr

I've been using Abaddon more as my group plays higher-point games, and he is yet to disappoint. Yes, he usually slaps his face with his sword at least once a man, but even a roll of 3 extra attacks usually means he'll pulverize his target. Non-EW HQs with T4 get pulverized on the first save they miss, and with his Eldar-worthy Initiative, that usually means they don't get to hit back.

Against other heavyweights, It's a bit of a crap shoot. Logan, Mephiston, the Swarmlord and Calgar are just as strong and usually have better defenses, but don't have his volume of attacks. On the other side, they very often do a lot more to help their armies via strategic rules than Abbie. 

Recently, I've been splitting him a lot from his unit in objective games and sitting him on the enemy home objective. His 4 wounds, EW and T5 mean it can take a lot to kill him, making the eney divert a lot of fire from your other troops to remove him. In my last game, he stood for 2 turns contesting a Salamander objective by himself, with half of the enemy army pelting him with twin-linked meltas, flamers, bolters and assault cannons, and he only took 2 wounds (from the bolters).

But assault MeQ's, tactical terminators, Nob bikers, Nobs and other stuff with low-to-average Inv saves with him and 5 times out of 6 he'll make you proud.


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## All_Is_Dust

My friend is a space wolf player and I am chaos (90% Tzeentch). I use abbadon a lot in our 2500+ games since he always fields Grimnar in big battles. I can tell you this its all in how the dice fall that day. Some days I sweep Grim right off the map without ever taking a counter attack and some times Grim kills Abbadon never taking a wound. I think Grim is a better HQ by far but when they fight each other its a very even fight.


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