# Versus... Stegadons



## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi guys, 

squeek asked me earlier tonight if I would care to do the write up for the Stegadons, who are next up on the "Versus..." Series. I would have PM'd him the post, but seeing as he's not on, here you go 

Continuing with the Fantasy Versus... series, next on the list is Stegadon (suggested by Critta, Mutants_Ho! and Pertoleum). If you want to add your suggestions as to who Fantasy Versus should deal with next, go here for the general thread.

So, Stegadons. With the advent of the new Plastic Stegadon, and bumped uprules, how do you go about bringing down one of these dinosaurs of the Lost World, especially now that they are becoming more and more popular? With the option to be used as both a mount and a monster in it's own right, along with being taken as either a Rare and a Special choice, Lizardmen players can make their armies around as many as 7 of them. Terror Causing, High Toughness, Multi-wound, and can carry either a Bolt Thrower, several huge Blowpipes, or an Engine of the Gods, they can either sit back and support, or move in close and use their high Strength and Impact hits to break units on their own, they truely are the beasts of the Gods. So great, even the Slann Mage Priest Mazdamundi deigns to ride one to battle. 

So... how do you go about bringing them down?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Warmachines are damn good against all monsters, cannons even better now when some monsters have the huge charriotbasek:

The Strength of the Stegadon(combatwise) is its impacthits. If you deny it that it'll have a damn hard time. Sure its stubborn but that wont last forever. Try to get a full RnF unit to charge the Stegadon and you should be set, it might take a few turns before it dies/breaks but it will eventually. 
How to get the charge? Flee with the unit the Stegadon charges and be positioned for a countercharge.
Heavy Cav can also seriously gimp the Stegadon thanks to high S attacks on the charge and good save, just make sure you have some backup plan in case you autobreak from Terror on the wrong turn:wink:


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

ORGAN GUNS! ORGAN GUNS! BRING ON THE ORGAN GUNS!
took out a vargulf in one turn with one-10 shots, 8 wounds, no saves. i imagine that the same will work for steggy's. i love organ guns.


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## Gharof von Carstein (May 19, 2008)

said varghulf should work in pairs or supported to break down a steggy. if this fails go go wraiths


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## maddermax (May 12, 2008)

A decent lance of bret knights has a decent chance against a steggie on the charge, but after that will have troubles. Knights also mean that the steg doesn't get any impact hits, and will have a difficult time doing a decent amount of damage. Add to that any decent monster killing character (Vo Audacity alone on the charge will be enough, Sword of heros for extra damage), and you'll make short work of him. Even if you don't kill him, stubborn and cold blooded won't help too much, as IIRC they have a very low leadership.

Don't know about engines of the gods and whatnot, haven't seen the new scalies book, but I'll be sure to check it out next time, I keep hearing people talk them up.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Gharof von Carstein said:


> said varghulf should work in pairs or supported to break down a steggy. if this fails go go wraiths


provided there is no character on it, etheral units shoud be ok(unless it is magic poisen.)


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## Pertoleum (Jul 18, 2008)

im sorry if this is off topic but what is engine of the gods?


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## Vorag of Strigos (Feb 25, 2009)

Stegadons are the Bane of my Black coach, I usually try to charge them with my black knights (Wight blades and ethereal movement) under the cover of some spirit hosts or dire wolves if the terrain is open. or use my vampire lord's Gaze of nagash spell to try and take it down, if all else fails I try to swamp it with a couple of hastily raise Zombie hordes, keeping my vampire hero with helm of commandment within range to almost guarentee they win the combat, then shambling horde special rule takes over, otherwise my black coach is instantly reduced to a very fine black powder by its bolt thrower


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## newsun (Oct 6, 2008)

maddermax said:


> ...stubborn and cold blooded won't help too much, as IIRC they have a very low leadership.
> 
> Don't know about engines of the gods and whatnot, haven't seen the new scalies book, but I'll be sure to check it out next time, I keep hearing people talk them up.


Stubborn combined with Cold Blooded means you will rarely if even see them break.

Engines are nasty, though just kill the priest and it's now only a Stegadon with some crew. Priests can be killed through attrition of shooting fire and challenges.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

Refuse to play them.... But no seriously, blow the crap out of them with magic before hand and don't let them charge your good units. 

I like my magical "gun" lines, its not that hard to blast the lot of them with magic to severally weaken them if not kill them out right before they ever get in charge range. Also its a good idea to send in a junk unit to tie them up so your good HtH unit can get the charge on them to avoid thos nasty impact hits.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

Pertoleum said:


> im sorry if this is off topic but what is engine of the gods?


its a steggy with a skink priest and a super, magical, uber laser thingy on top.


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

personally i'd just use a banshee

ok, now you've gotten over the shock of that statement i shall explain. Leadership 6 vs the banshee howl = dead stegadon very quickly


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

does the banshee still get the howl? cos she is a unit champion now, so i was just wondering.


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## karix bloodfist (Mar 3, 2009)

Flank 'em with trolls or ogres or somethings big, smelly and has about three attacks. always works for me!


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

Dafistofmork said:


> does the banshee still get the howl? cos she is a unit champion now, so i was just wondering.


yeah, thats the point of her - otherwise you are dropping 2 points of strength, an attack and WS for more points for nothing

almost exclusively useless compared to regular Wraiths, except here


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## Pertoleum (Jul 18, 2008)

the range on he howl kinda sucks, 8``, do i really wanna get that close to the big thing charging at me?


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Pertoleum said:


> the range on he howl kinda sucks, 8``, do i really wanna get that close to the big thing charging at me?


Uhm Wraiths are Ethreal Skirmishers, right? You should be able to move around the Dinosaur to leave its charge arc with those premisses. And seriously if you fail that LoS detail what will happen? He charges you? 
Booo Hissss??
Guess what, he cant hurt you, gogo Steggy...

The EotG can damage the Wraiths and a Skink hero if he has a magical weapon. Look twice on a skink hero's stats and guess how often that will happen:laugh:
Nah your Wraiths should be totally fine against a Stegadon:wink:


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

right, now to convince people that dwarfs are ethreal......


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## Drax (Sep 19, 2007)

Dafistofmork said:


> right, now to convince people that dwarfs are ethreal......


why not? GW say they are movement 8 now afterall!


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

thats my point.:biggrin:


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Remember that if an Engine of the Gods Stegadon is in Combat with an Ethereal Creature, it will use it's Burning Alignment - if you've gone for the Cheap Banshee option, you've got a sugar load of Str5 attacks coming your way. Also, I've yet to see a Stegadon army with a 'normal' Stegadon that isn't in an army with an Engine of the Gods, or something else that can deal damage to the Etherealseffectively.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm thinking the Skink character on top with Venom of the Firefly Frog would take care of Banshees fairly easily. Magical poisoned reroll misses on the Blowgun will be bad news. 

As to fighting stagadons, the Wood Elves should be ok. Treemen and kin should stand up fairly well as they have the movement to avoid a charge, I think. Unfortunately, the EOTG will whack them hard when they get close. Also a Highborn with the spirit sword SHOULD take care of a stegadon a turn.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Characters cannot use the weapons, remember - as they are not the characters weapons, and the Character may never be a part of the Weapons crew of a War Machine (although he may join, unless it specifically says he can, he is not a part of the crew).


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Vaz said:


> Characters cannot use the weapons, remember - as they are not the characters weapons, and the Character may never be a part of the Weapons crew of a War Machine (although he may join, unless it specifically says he can, he is not a part of the crew).


Skink chiefs can use their own weapons, though. And can be equipped with the standard skink blowpipe. And that's poisoned, so 2x poisoned reroll miss shots. And then if there's an assault, his normal attacks are poisoned and magical. So there's that. And that's what I meant. There's been some discussion about the wording "A character riding a stegadon or ancient stegadon will displace one of the crew". Since the one firing the weapons of the beast is eligible to be the one displaced, opinions differ as to whether that allows the character to fire the weapons. Given that, I just assumed the weapons the character has himself were being used.


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## Ascendant Valor (Jan 3, 2009)

Can the Steg Stand-and-Shoot? If it could, one would be wise only to send in some nasty-tough troops.

If not, I would have to say anyone should just tie it up in combat for as long as possible.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

The Bolt Thrower can't S+S, but I'm not too sure over the Blowguns.

However, both are crewed, so I assume that they are both classed as a War Machine, hence that although the Crew can S+S, but not with the Howdah Weapons.

And if they are both classed as War Machines, whether the Character replaces a Crew member or not, it only needs two crew to fire the Howdah weapons, and as a Character may NEVER be a part of a Crew, unless it specifically states (as in the Dwarven/Empire Engineers), you don't benefit from the Greater BS, or the effect of the VotFF.


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## whirlwindofdecay (Mar 13, 2009)

Pertoleum said:


> im sorry if this is off topic but what is engine of the gods?


An Engine of the Gods Has three powers. it can do 1d6 str4 hits, no armor save, at every unit in 2d6", give every friendly unit within 12" a 5+ ward save against shooting, or it can pick a lore from the warhammer book, and make all spells one easier to cast. and it can pick one of them during each of your magic phases.


And against stegadons, cannons, cannons, and more cannons, countercharges, or dwarven slayers work great, and they were right when they said the main punch from a stegadon in combat is those impact hits.


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## whirlwindofdecay (Mar 13, 2009)

Ascendant Valor said:


> Can the Steg Stand-and-Shoot? If it could, one would be wise only to send in some nasty-tough troops.
> 
> If not, I would have to say anyone should just tie it up in combat for as long as possible.


The crew can stand and shoot, but they only have javelins to do it with.


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## NagashKhemmler (Apr 28, 2009)

Engine of the gods is annoying to many armies (esp bretonians due to the ignore armour crap) it's especially annoying as undead as the hits go up to S5, so my tomb kings got slaughtered by that crap, TK don't really have much to counter it unit wise . You got Ushabti, but they get smacked by EotG so it's painful and you basically need direct hits with the SSC to wound the stegadon, even then it's got what, 6 wounds? ugh, hate


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I've faced massed stegs with all three of my armies recently.
Empire lots of longrifles to kill any characters riding them works well enough and cannons are always good against big multi wd monsters, Even my volleygun earned its points as it's a big enough target to hit without an engineer babysitter, Failing that a flank charge with a few knights is a good option.
Chaos Dwarfs using the earthshaker to slow them down means you can usually get the charge on your terms, blunderbusses while normally crap against anything with more than 1 wound kills the crappy skink crew easily and with luck you may even wound the steg, a bull centaur charge is almost worth the cost on ebay and the strength bonus from the great weapons helps a lot. 
Ogres the army is full of tough monsters that can take out stegs even leadbelchers are worth the points thans to the large target bonus. The hunters crossbow is quite good against them too. Admittedly my luck with ogres is higher than should be possible but it makes up for the fact that I can't roll armour saves for any of my 40k armies.
The best thing to remember is its unit strenght 10 and if you kill enough skinks (which are weedy and die easily) you can force a break test even low strength spells that are unlikely to hurt the steg can cause a break test, My gnoblars stood and shot and while they couldn't wound the steg they wiped out the crew and the steg ran away.


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## Asmodeun (Apr 26, 2009)

May have already been said, but a Master or Dreadlord with a great weapon and the pendant of khaeleth. In my latest game, mine took out an oldblood, an engine of the gods, a unit of saurus and another stegadon. all of which happened after my other units had all died. My oponent was not very happy at that.


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## Kale Hellas (Aug 26, 2009)

dwarf slayer lord plus the lovely rune that makes you cause d6 wounds


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## Tombking (Jan 5, 2010)

i saw a skaven warp lightning cannon get 2 at once - bit of a fluke but war machines are the way to go. With tks i would bow it to death with all my asp arrows and get rid of alot of the riders then ushabti it with many st5 hits doe on a tombking would make a fun mess of it causing 2 st7 hits on the don and all riders ssc on rapid fire will also soften it up nicely. Vcs i would lure it into combat wit my vamp thral wearing armour which negates charge bonuses and chalenge the skink preist then chop it up wit a common magic sword and red fury. 

I killed an ancient wit 6 iron guts who got charged - that the only one i have personaly taken down. If you can avoid the impact hits or take em like a man st6 makes a mess of any don


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Anything, anything at all... just get the charge (get past its terror) and then you'll likely win. Its crew is pretty rubbish (and can be ignored if you challenge) and it only has 3A at WS3 so you are likely going to take 2-3 wounds from the whole thing. Banner, outnumber and a single rank means you'll likely win every turn with a musician and just have to wait for it to fail a stubborn Ld6 test.
Doing damage to the steg itself isnt really necessary, but when Im fighting it if I have St6+ I go for teh steg, if Im only S3-4 then I just hit the crew- not trying to kill them but they might fail the odd save and it bumps up my kills a bit.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Usually I don't let my Steggies walk around unescorted by Saurus. So the tactic of "win CR" is less easy to achieve.


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

A good LM player will protect the EOTG by the Slaan and its TG unit, saurus warriors, skinks and sallies to keep away from cc (where the crew and character can be vulnerable). Forests and some hills will also allow parially screening on turn one at least. The use of multiple EOTGs for mutual support is a common strategy now. 

Shooting with random hits on the crew and character on top are very effective over time, even if they use the ward save benefit. Bolts and cannons can be devastating to the steggies and their crew. With the EOTG guarded by screening units for cc, the stone throwing weapons and weapons with scatter can be effective as well given the rich concentration of targets. Too often against good players with DE, HE and Dwarf armies with heavy shooting (haven't seen brets or some of the other heavy cannon armies), my son's EOTGs don't survive the game unless he has managed to screen them effectively and take out key war machines with scout/skirmishers (chams or sallies) or with the comet from the Slaan or one of the skink priests or just gotten lucky with ward and armour saves. On the other hand, armies with weaker shooting and generally lacking heavy artillery can get crushed by LM (wood elves and warriors of chaos are two instances where they seemed completely outmatched in magic and could not shoot strong enough to take out, although the wood elves do have some abilities to target individually the skink priest on the steggies in shooting) in some games.


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## heishere909 (Apr 30, 2010)

i would use wood elves orion backed up with some eternal gaurd or wild riders


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