# dispel dice.



## Wiccus (Jun 2, 2008)

I am getting back into fantasy after a long break and play Demons and will be restarting my WoC soon. My problem is that whenever I make a list that I feel comfortable with I find that I am seriously lacking in DD and PD. The PD are not extremely important to me but I have played several games in the past where a decent magic phase screws my army over completely. At 2000pts (which is most common with me and my friends) I end up having only about 3 DD. My room mate is a VC player and I play him most often and he ends up having usually about triple my DD in PD and that is with a balanced army. I am trying to make balanced lists with both of my armies and will be making 2250 balanced armies soon so as I can play in tournaments. Do you think that 3 DD will cut it against VC or against other tournament armies? If not and you play either of my armies or are familiar with them could you give me a general idea as to what I should do?


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## Wolf_Lord_Skoll (Jun 9, 2008)

VC almost always have huge amounts of dice. Only one of their hero choices isn't a wizard and ALL of their Lords are.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Unfortunately, Vampire Counts magic is one of the most seriously overpowered in the game - better even than Tzeentch - which is strange, considering Tzeentchian Sorcerors can access the raw power of the Winds of Magic, while the disciples of Nagash are using the diluted stuff. If Vampire Counts were tuned down, as to what they were in the old edition (which was still incredibly powerful), then they would be pretty much fantastic.

This doesn't help you much - and Dispel Scrolls don't help much - they will raise just as many next turn. What you can do though, is kill the Vampires.

Warriors of Chaos have some good spells for just that occasion - Buboes, Flickering Fire, and Lash of Slaanesh are good damage dealers, and it you get spells such as Curse of the Leper, then you will quickly see those T2 Zombies will quickly go tits up.

Hell - even Plague Squall (3D6 S1 hits) can cause a fair nasty bit of damage to those zombies. Baleful Transmogrification, Ecstatic Siezures and obviously Gate of Chaos are very useful for taking out Vampires hiding in units.

But if you don't go Magic heavy, how do you take them out?

Lord on Daemonic Steed. Balefire Sword. Mark of Nurgle. Collar of Khorne. Word of Pain. Vampire Lord Killer. Issue a challenge. Vampire Lord should be the one which accepts, unless it's in a unit of Wights or Blood Knights, but I don't know why it would be. You strike first - superior Weapon Skill, means you're hitting on 3's. Out of 5 attacks, you hit 3-4 times. Wounding on 4's - you wound 1-2 times. If you wound twice, it's a dead meat Vampire Lord. If you wound once, all you need to do is roll a dice to see if you cause 2 wounds with the Hellfire sword. Then you have your Daemonic Steed. If you still haven't defeated it, next turn, you can use word of Pain - D6 Str 4 hits is going to be quite nasty even on a Vampire.

I know I've said in your army list about not taking Lords in small games - but a Vampire is going to be at its weakest in combat - as they don't have funky do-da's to keep them alive. They will be kept away, and your superior combat abilities will wipe out anything but a Varghulf or Blood Knight Charge. If he's casting damage spells, he's not doing his job correctly - he should be spamming zombies. You should be fine - get the charge, and overrun.


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## MaidenManiac (Oct 2, 2008)

Wanna be an asshat?
If starting DoC take a Bloodthirster as lord, give him Infinite Hatred and Axe o' Khorne(personal preference)/Firestorm Blade and Obsidian Armour and charge him at the pesky Vampire Lord and win game turn 2:laugh:

VC is a quite unique army which lives around its magic phase. You must learn which parts of it that you will need to let go and which parts that you must not. DoC has a very nice way of getting DDs, buy 2x10 Horrors and you get more dice untill they eventually diminish a bit, add like 2 heralds which can cast spells and you have a solid magical defence


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Daemons are interesting in that sense, if you want to have a good magic phase and good number of DD then you have to invest in a few tzeen'tch units or characters or turn a few of Slaanesh characters in to casters.

Alternatively you can go light on magic and just beef up your combat units and weather the storm.

There is some fantastic advice for coping with VC magic in this thread; Versus... Vampire Counts.


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## Wiccus (Jun 2, 2008)

Alright yeah I know that VC have an OP magic phase. I guess I will just have to deal with it. But what do you think about a tournament setting? In your personal opinion would 3 DD be enough to go toe to toe with some of the magic heavy armies I may be facing?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

To go with Magic Heavy, it needs to be countered by Magic heavy armies. 

However, that means that the much needed 'oomph' that units need to get that extra boost in close combat is not there - with Certain exceptions, obviously, but multi-class characters tend to be either very expensive, or inadequate in one of the two if not.

Tzeentchian Beasts of Chaos Lords tend to be as powerful an example, but the rest of the army isn't up to scratch. 

To be honest, it's easy enough to get your army across the board in a couple of turns, but you're going to need to do some serious character hunting to cut it down.


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

3 DD at 2250 does seem very limited to me, are you taking any scrolls with that? Against a typical magic heavy VC list you're 3 DD are going to be next to worthless I would think, as they will probably have 2 bound spells and a couple of casters throwing out vanhels and summons like nobodies business.

That is not necessarily a major problem as what you haven't spent on magic you have spent on combat, but like Vaz says you are going to have to go character hunting as fast as possible.


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