# Warhammer 41k is Warhammer 40k still



## roninblade19 (Feb 25, 2012)

The Golden throne must fail in order to progress the story because without the God Emperor(GE) Mankind will be at the mercy of all the races in the 40k verse and because of Games Workshops new video game based direction for the company old Canon can only last so long and GW loves their fans hence they will progress the story into the 42 millenium but just keep the name 40k because it is still technically true as 40,999 is which is the current time in the fluff. 

Things like the lost legions or primarchs are great places for growth in the series considering only the 11th or 2nd lost primarch need return with huge amounts of artifacts, technology, or truths about the emperor in order to give the series including tabletop and video games an entire progression. I would love for the GE to die or get killed and instantly the 11th primarch arrives on the scene calling the entire time between heresy and now madness based on deep chaos corruption to not allow the GE to reincarnate and that his legion has vast amounts of stolen and lost technology including the reincarnation point of the new GE and an event called the Great Golden Crusade which will occur in the deepest darkest hells of the eye of terror where the GE has been born long ago but remains souless because of the golden throne debacle allowing him to remain unnoticed by chaos but not for long. 

This way you get a new GE with ultra powers but not before you have a decade in real world time or expanisions and video games in pursuit of the savior of humanity while maintaining this constant blackness of uncertainity GW loves to play in. I am not saying GW is going to do this but if they want to progress the story well from a storytellers and gamers standpoint new is needed quickly to allow the tabletop and video games to grow at the same time. hope and fear of losing the war is exactly what GW is great at and playing with a new active and informed primarch allows canon to leap forward along with technology in the game even stolen super technology is good for the forces of mankind because the scales are so far into the black with mankind they are not likely to recover if not.


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## Archaon18 (Feb 17, 2012)

The reason the emporor isn't dead is so GW can still sell Imperial forces, they would crumble otherwise.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Welcome to Heresy roninblade. 


But...

This is not homebrew fluff. It's a fluff discussion. I have moved it to the relevant forum. Also, please be aware of posting walls of text when you type. 

Try to give paragraphs of manageable size to ease the eye strain on potential readers, otherwise most simply won't bother. Heresy does have a posting standard that requires correct grammar and structure. I did what I could to edit some paragraphs in for you.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

roninblade19 said:


> ... and because of Games Workshops new video game based direction for the company old Canon can only last so long and GW loves their fans hence they will progress the story into the 42 millenium but just keep the name 40k because it is still technically true as 40,999 is which is the current time in the fluff.


You're assuming the game is set in 40,999. :wink:


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## Dead.Blue.Clown (Nov 27, 2009)

roninblade19 said:


> The Golden throne must fail in order to progress the story because without the God Emperor(GE) Mankind will be at the mercy of all the races in the 40k verse and because of Games Workshops new video game based direction for the company old Canon can only last so long and GW loves their fans hence they will progress the story into the 42 millenium but just keep the name 40k because it is still technically true as 40,999 is which is the current time in the fluff.
> 
> Things like the lost legions or primarchs are great places for growth in the series considering only the 11th or 2nd lost primarch need return with huge amounts of artifacts, technology, or truths about the emperor in order to give the series including tabletop and video games an entire progression. I would love for the GE to die or get killed and instantly the 11th primarch arrives on the scene calling the entire time between heresy and now madness based on deep chaos corruption to not allow the GE to reincarnate and that his legion has vast amounts of stolen and lost technology including the reincarnation point of the new GE and an event called the Great Golden Crusade which will occur in the deepest darkest hells of the eye of terror where the GE has been born long ago but remains souless because of the golden throne debacle allowing him to remain unnoticed by chaos but not for long.
> 
> This way you get a new GE with ultra powers but not before you have a decade in real world time or expanisions and video games in pursuit of the savior of humanity while maintaining this constant blackness of uncertainity GW loves to play in. I am not saying GW is going to do this but if they want to progress the story well from a storytellers and gamers standpoint new is needed quickly to allow the tabletop and video games to grow at the same time. hope and fear of losing the war is exactly what GW is great at and playing with a new active and informed primarch allows canon to leap forward along with technology in the game even stolen super technology is good for the forces of mankind because the scales are so far into the black with mankind they are not likely to recover if not.


40K isn't a story, with a storyline. It's a setting. It's a future history. It doesn't have canon in the sense of other licenses, nor does it want or need to "leap forward" in terms you're thinking of. It hasn't reached the last year of the last Millennium and stalled. It's a look back on 10,000 years of future history, and the ability to set your games anywhere within it.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

roninblade19 said:


> The Golden throne must fail in order to progress the story because without the God Emperor(GE) Mankind will be at the mercy of all the races in the 40k verse and because of Games Workshops new video game based direction for the company old Canon can only last so long and GW loves their fans hence they will progress the story into the 42 millenium but just keep the name 40k because it is still technically true as 40,999 is which is the current time in the fluff.
> 
> Things like the lost legions or primarchs are great places for growth in the series considering only the 11th or 2nd lost primarch need return with huge amounts of artifacts, technology, or truths about the emperor in order to give the series including tabletop and video games an entire progression. I would love for the GE to die or get killed and instantly the 11th primarch arrives on the scene calling the entire time between heresy and now madness based on deep chaos corruption to not allow the GE to reincarnate and that his legion has vast amounts of stolen and lost technology including the reincarnation point of the new GE and an event called the Great Golden Crusade which will occur in the deepest darkest hells of the eye of terror where the GE has been born long ago but remains souless because of the golden throne debacle allowing him to remain unnoticed by chaos but not for long.
> 
> This way you get a new GE with ultra powers but not before you have a decade in real world time or expanisions and video games in pursuit of the savior of humanity while maintaining this constant blackness of uncertainity GW loves to play in. I am not saying GW is going to do this but if they want to progress the story well from a storytellers and gamers standpoint new is needed quickly to allow the tabletop and video games to grow at the same time. hope and fear of losing the war is exactly what GW is great at and playing with a new active and informed primarch allows canon to leap forward along with technology in the game even stolen super technology is good for the forces of mankind because the scales are so far into the black with mankind they are not likely to recover if not.


Actually, IMO GW doesn't need to go forward at all.

It has 10,000 years of history to explore between the beginning of the Imperium of Man in 30k and its subsequent decline and fall after the Horus Heresy up to the end of the 40th Millennium. Not to mention the fact we know next to nothing about the rule of the Eldar and Mankind in the Age of Technology, as well as the battles between the Necrons and the Old ones.

A Primarch returning is a bad idea and unlikely to ever happen. They have been taken out of the story for a reason; mainly because they filled their roles within it. They have been shown to be flawed individuals, whose greatness and strength only magnifies and intensifies those inherent flaws. What 40k is now about is 'regular' humanity and its struggles in an ever more hostile universe. Think about the fact that most humans never even see a Space Marine in their lifetime. That's how rare they are.

The God Emperor in all likely hood will one day die, and the Imperium will be overrun on all sides by Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids and Orks, but we will never hear about it, nor should we want to. Whether your an Imperial player or not, the Imperium of Man is the heart if the story of 40k. You can support it, and hope it finds a way to live on, or you can rub your hands with glee plotting how your supported race is going to usher its downfall.

GW needs to keep going the way its going and explore the 10,000 years of history between 30-40k. Think about that for a second, that is a longer period of time that we have recorded history. Think of all that has happened with 'real' human history since around 2000BC - 2000AD, in only 4000 years there have been pages and pages worth of epic events, battles, feuds, civilizations rising and falling, and much, much more.

So why does 40k ever need to progress to keep our interest when it still has millions and millions of stories still to tell?


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## bobss (May 18, 2008)

The Golden Throne does not necessarily have to fail for the Imperium to be in a terrible situation that many would consider ''refreshing''.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

We had a debate about this and obviously so far it's been a historical narrative of the past. In truth I don't believe there will ever be a "future" for this setting as so many things have changed in the past that the future seem less essential to the plot. The canon might change,be rewritten,or just plain thrown out but it's still history. The throne shutting down I think is to add to the dire situation of the Imperium along with the Cadian situation as a result of the 13th Black Crusade. Add the death of Eldrad to that and the loss of the Black Stone fortresses and Abbaddon has in my opinion all the power he needs to destroy the 2 races that pose the greatest threat to his completing his fathers mission. 

Every threat has grown stonger and more resilient save for the Imperium. The are weak,porus,paranoid,xenophobic, and religiously steeped in mysticism. Progress will never be made. I believe the Emperor himself has accepted this as even through his tarot and audiences he's granted from the throne, he no longer commands atheism and scientific discovery of his people. This setting as I've come to accept it is unlike any other because it is recounting how basically the human race meets it's end. That's the point of 40k.


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## Yru0 (May 9, 2011)

I do not question whether 40k has so much more to offer us fluff-wise and story wise; however, I fear that a point will be reached where adding truely 'EPIC' bits to the story in order to keep up the interest i.e, a dark crusade, or even a new space marine chapter/codex (No hate intended here, just using an example) would just be totally unbelievable. In a story, the plot has to be of something momentous in the character's life, or in the entire setting in this case, or else why are you bothering to tell this particular story? The audience just yawns off any new events as inconsiquential, because no matter how they pan out, you know that so-and-so lives and that he goes on to fight in a much grander battle in another time. Without that forward progession and only looking backwards, a lot of the 'major' plot points loose their emphasis.

In contrast to this, I see a big future in 40k for the smaller tales, say instead of the 'Horus Heresy' more akin to "Guardsman Jimmy's Heroic actions in the battle for ______", which would tell tales of those great feats of the 'normal' men and women inhabiting the setting, who nonetheless make an important impact to their own locale and individuals. So, in my mind; I would love for 40k to move forward, but I question some of the DRAMATIC leaps spoken of earlier in this thread (no offense), and to find out just what to do could require a lot more deliberation than I care for. I don't really think it's going to move along any time soon however, and regardless, I think I can live with it 

Edit: Except the Tau... give us our empire!!! ;D


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

If the story were to move forward something drastic would have to happen for the Imperium beyond just the Primarchs returning. What do I see happening? At the least, Terra is lost along with the vast majority of the Segmuntum Solar. This will in turn cause the restraints on the Void Dragon to be released which will inadvertantly stem the tide of Chaos into the natural universe with the forces and power it can summon. This threat will obviously bring the Necron empire to the forefront of 40k as the invasion of Chaos will be a direct threat as they've seen the result when the Enslavers came. Total war will errrupt fromt the west as the Cadian gate falls and Abbadadon finally realizes his fathers dream only to be met with the full force of eldar/necron/and the fragments of imperial forces which throws him back into a stalemate with the Necron technology matching his own power. 

The loyalist legions not caught in the death of the Emperor opening the dungeon portal marshal now in a 3 way war pitting them against the signaling in opinion of the Khan coming through the webway portal in the dungeon to rally the custodes and his own forces to retake Terra in hit and run tactics around the till the Imperial Firsts,Black Templars,Crimson Fists,join with his to garrison around fallen terra turning the throne world into the new Armageddon. The new grandmasters of the Grey Knights activate the Terminus Decree shutting down the Golden Throne and releasing the Emperor's full might into the immaterium to battle the Chaos Gods directly. 

With this development the support of Abbaddons forces wane as the Gods engage the Anathema as never before. The Alpha Legion finally sees it's chance and assassinates Abbaddon with the deathblow being delivered by the gemini primarch himself. The full measure of his plan was to wait till Abbaddon could destroy the mutated vision the Imperium had become and once that happened eliminate him as head and take over. Erebus is pleased with the development but wants himself placed as Warmaster instead of the conniving Alpharius/Omegon. Though he gravely wounds Omegon with his warp power Alpharius decapitates him and puts his twin into stasis before he can expire. 

The Cadian has even more surprises as the Space Wolves arrive saying they heard a call to come. Through the cadian gate comes Leman Russ with the head of Kor Pharon and the challenging his traitor brother to face sanction. Immediately red angel manifests bellowing his acceptance. At his side come Mortarion,Perturabo,Magnus,and Lorgar. Immediately Through the warp entrance Mortarion is thrown from his feet. Behind him stands Kaldor Draigo remarking that he hasn't finished his mutilation of the daemon primarch. Hector Rex comes personally challenges Lorgar to combat which the Daemon primarch readily accepts remarking they've both defeated similar daemons. Russ stands with Perturabo,Magnus,and Angron. He thanks them for coming and saving him the trouble of hunting them down. 

Before Russ can begin the Lion,recently awoken, tells Russ he and Perturabo have things to discuss in regards to latters treachery in decieving him. All sides collide with Russ and Logan Grimnar (armed with the Spear of Pavonis) taking on Angron and Magnus. Mortarion has mortally wounded a smiling Draigo. When asked why by the Death Lord, Kaldor remarks he's dreamed of permenantly killing a daemon for centuries. At that moment he uses the gift the Emperor's spirit endowed him with, The Holocaust and obliterates Mortarion in the Emperor's name as Draigo is finally given the rest warriors crave. Logan Grimnar is cleaved in two by Magnus as he tosses the spear to Ragnar Blackmane and dies. Blackmane tells Magnus "I've wanted to give this two you since the first time we saw each other" and hurls it into the Daemon Primarchs chest killing him instantly.

Russ is taking on Angron and the two seem to be matched evenly delivering and receiving blows in kind. The Lion is fighting Perturabo and seems to be unable to gain the upperhand. As Hector Rex fights Lorgar he realizes that the Chaos Undivided prophet will eventually defeat him as his powers are beyond his. Rex is thrown to the ground and is thought by all to meet his end when claws errupt out of Lorgars chest. Corvus Corax remarks "Nevermore" as he rends him in two. Corax picks up his torso to look him in the eyes and tells him "I've waited for you,staying hidden, to leave your tower. How could you think I would let you escape my wrath the Night Haunter rescued you from? That was only a delay, you've been dead since Istavaan,only now do you realize it simpering dog."

The chaos gate becomes even more unstable as a warp storm pulls the remaining Daemon princes into the warp against their will. The loyalist primarchs unwilling to accept this launch into the eye of terror after them. There they behold the true nature of the warp. They see their father battling the Gods as it destroys the daemon worlds. The necrons leave satisfied that the universe is now there's. As they head east they encounter something that they hadn't calculated into their plans. The entire tyranid Hive fleet approaching the heart of their empire. 

The dawn of the 50k has brought the Imperium's fall and the new fight for Terra itself. The legions and astartes struggle to hunt down and finish the CSM while the Primarchs hunt they're surviving brothers down through the EOT with their legions. Two fronts have opened as Terra and the Eye have become Lost and retaken. The Necrons now face the might of a ork infused tyranid assualt along with the Void Dragon itself coming to claim vengeance for they're betrayal which forced it onto earth. The Khan has vowed to retake Terra with the newly arrived might of Vulkan and his Salamanders. Russ and Corax have vowed to hunt the remaining traitor primarchs. The Lion was left behind to garrison the Cadian gate for Russ and Corax as his tactical acumen would serve best there but he may have other motivations as Cypher has been citied heading for the EOT as well. The universe has a new dawn which bodes even darker than the previous one. At least that's how I'd like the story to progress.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

All this assumes that the Golden Throne fails and the Emperor is dead. This is not a given by any means. It may mean that there is a battle for terra as the webway portal breaches open, and the Emperor battles at the head of the Space Marine Chapters. There may even be a return of the Emperor, his spirit reborn into a new vessel, starting a new Great Crusade. 

Also, the Death of the Emperor may cause an event like unto the creation of Slaanesh, where the warp calms for a time, allowing the imperium to limp along without the Beacon. Remember, during the Dark Age of Technology, when the Eldar's Fall calmed the eddies of the Warp, it was not required.


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