# centurions and Librarian councle



## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

So the latest pain in my A$$ is a "Friends" list including 6 Centurions ( 1 with lascannon and split fire), then that caster group/counsel thing... the one that casts spells on 2+.

I am trying to find a way to put him on the defensive, rather than hiding from it and feeding it Rhino's to block line of site.

I did attempt to take out my IG and hit them with Basilisks and what not, but then Invisibility put a stop to that 
Tried Drop pod with Dread, and one with Grey hunters.... not enough damage.
Tried Hades Drills from DkoK... such a usless unit in this edition 
Most luck I have had is with Daemons and the Book of True names... but that takes a few rolls to have line up for the book and cursed earth...

Has anyone had any luck pushing this squad back, or taking it out?
I have Nids, IG, SpaceWolves, Chaos and Daemons... any tips to help me with them would be great.


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

Every time I have charged a Centurion squad, Invisible or not, I have beat them even if it took a couple rounds of combat. Key thing is once they're tied up they can't do much.

At least they aren't showing up in Drop Pods...


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## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

That's true, the lack of overwatch is nice for them, my issue is getting up to them.

Altho last night I did a "Test" run of a squad of 20 daemonettes running straight at them. Even with re-rolls they were only getting about 3-5 a round. The daemons were fast enough that I still hit em with an over kill number... so that may be my answer for them.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Have you given any thought to using a culexus assassin to disrupt the psychic powers from working? Or a vindicare to pick off librarians?

How about a knight errant with thermal cannon?


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## ntaw (Jul 20, 2012)

What army do you _want_ to use?

p.s. Culexus for the win.


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## R_Squared (Mar 24, 2013)

Thunderwolf cavalry in CC? Fast and tough enough to get in and will certainly put a dent in them.
You don't have to kill them, just stop your opponent from using them effectively. Any fast unit that can survive into CC and hold them in it for the game should be considered a win, especially as it is a huge points sink that will now be doing nothing except trying to survive. I'd use Ork Stormboyz or similar for the same effect.
All those las-cannons, points and Psychic powers tied up in one unit, sounds like a huge bonus for his opponents.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Culexus, Karanak--those strike me as the best options.


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## Xabre (Dec 20, 2006)

Why not take your own Librarian Council, so you can Deny what they do?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Xabre said:


> Why not take your own Librarian Council, so you can Deny what they do?


Not a chance. A Librarian Conclave can *easily* push any given power through on 10 to 12 power dice if they really want, and chances are they're putting the four they want through on 3 or 4 dice each. 2+ to harness with a re-roll from Tigurius if you somehow fail it is bloody reliable, and the only powers they cast are Blessings so good luck Denying them.

I've been running this unit, and it's quite simple to deal with;
1. Ignore it. It's 24" range, 6" move per turn Slow and Purposeful. It costs _700 fucking points_ to be any good. Often, it rolls up shit powers and can't actually function (if you don't get Invisibility/Endurance AND Perfect Timing, the build is a pile of shit and the unit just falls flat on its' face).
2. Get into combat with it. With, like, anything. It's terrible in melee for the cost. A horde of Fearless models is ideal.
3. Play the mission. They can't kill _everything_, and chances are the rest of the Marine army is doing shit-all damage to you because Marines don't kill people to win games. Sit your butt on the objectives, in cover, and laugh as he kills some dudes while you blaze the rest of his fragile army off the board and win because he can't sit on the objectives as well as you can (Marines are usually king of this, but since he's got Centurions and a Conclave he obviously doesn't have the Battle Company built for OS).
4. Wait it out. At some point, this guy is going to roll badly on powers, and realise that this is honestly a shitty build that gambles hugely on a couple of dice rolls.

With the Centurion/Conclave star, I've beaten Khorne Daemonkin twice, lost to CSM badly once (they deployed out of range, shot the rest of my army to bits, and then charged the Centurionstar once it was the only thing left on the board - not hard when it costs a ridiculous number of points), twice to Necrons with CSM allies (shot up the rest of my army because Necrons are _brilliant_ at killing mech Marines, and then either ignored the Centurionstar because Necrons don't really care about 15 twin-linked Shred Ignores Cover Grav shots per turn or tied it up in combat with Orikan), and once to Eldar (lost some stuff to it, but then ignored it because I was way out of range of most of his army - on a 4x4 board at 2000pts no less - and given that Eldar have 12" movement on their slowest unit, he was easily able to simply avoid it for the rest of the game).


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## Usaal (Apr 9, 2008)

Well I do mostly enjoy Chaos, either marines or Daemons

So My unit to take on the grave centurions seems to be mostly Daemons. As they have no armor save.
I ran a test run of 20 Daemonettes with herald add-ons, it was great fun for me, not so much for him.

Decimator with his big cannon was nice for out ranging them... but expensive for what he did.

I don't have any of the assassins, but I am looking into getting the board game ones as they are very sweet looking.

I was wondering what kind of units I should take in a Space wolf army though, as I want to get my Space Viking on, but I am scared to field them due to these weapons. mostly because if I throw 2-3 units at him to confuse his shooting, I feel that it pulls resources away from other sections of the battlefield that could hinder my chance of victory.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> 1. Ignore it. It's 24" range, 6" move per turn Slow and Purposeful. It costs 700 fucking points to be any good. Often, it rolls up shit powers and can't actually function (if you don't get Invisibility/Endurance AND Perfect Timing, the build is a pile of shit and the unit just falls flat on its' face).


With Tigurius the Conclave effectively makes about 10 rolls on Telepathy, so they have a near guarantee at Invisibility. I've seen some players take Sanctic powers for Gate of Infinity too, to counter-balance mobility issues (even if the doubles risk).

A HoS with Beguilement (rerolls to hit against Invisibility on your fistfuls of dice? yes please!) and 20 Daemonettes/Seekers that grav cannons nearly can't hurt does sound like a good option. Daemons in general are pretty happy against grav centurions, I suppose. Flesh Hounds wouldn't do half bad either (even if they mostly do Blessings, the Collars of Khorne won't hurt), especially with a Hatred JuggerHerald. Plus would also allow a good set of bodies for Karanak to spike any of his doubles, if you're in the area. Possibly go Daemonkin (Fearless rather than Instability? don't mind if I do!) for the Gorepack bonus of _Preferred Enemy: Psykers_ (along with free hits on Invisible enemies from gaining Hammer of Wrath). Plus if you don't want to focus on killing them, you can build your list as MSU maxed out double Gorepack and tie them up with one or two 5-Hound packs per turn--efficient use of 80 point units, to lock up a 700 point Death Star!*

I would say "with so many points invested in that unit, you can play around it pretty well overwhelming it with MSU units with no armor save, but... still, beware the rest of your opponent's list. I just fought a CentStar that also brought 50 Scouts along (and Elias Isadon, so Be'lakor had to start in reserve to not get splatted by his fancy post-deployment ability), and all those bolters really wreaked havoc on my Daemonettes.

(*barring the frustrating ITC FAQ ruling that lets you Gate out of close combat)


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Mossy Toes said:


> With Tigurius the Conclave effectively makes about 10 rolls on Telepathy, so they have a near guarantee at Invisibility. I've seen some players take Sanctic powers for Gate of Infinity too, to counter-balance mobility issues (even if the doubles risk).


The problem there is that they can't re-roll powers they already have, and they don't get multiple instances of Psychic Focus. You _can_ roll 7/9 times on Telepathy, but then you haven't got Gate or Perfect Timing, at least one of which is _vital_ to the Deathstar (without Gate, you sit there and they avoid you because believe me after playing with it, 6" per turn on that many points will absolutely lose you the game through sitting around being out of 24" range; without Perfect Timing, your damage output drops to no way near what 600pts+ of dudes should be doing). You also get, at best, the Telepathy powers to use, and with Dominate and Hallucinations both being stinky garbage and a single instance of Psychic Shriek being very unreliable, that's not really impressive at all.



Mossy Toes said:


> (barring the frustrating ITC FAQ ruling that lets you Gate out of close combat)


Er, that's not an ITC specific, that's in the core rules. I guess it might also be in the ITC FAQ, but it's pretty clear cut in the rulebook.

I've been thinking about putting Cypher in my Centurions to give them Shrouded and Hit and Run, which would solve some issues, but I'm not totally sure on it yet (yes, technically you can't Infiltrate FAQ blah blah but I've never seen that played by the FAQ ruling outside of a tournament).


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

MidnightSun said:


> I've been thinking about putting Cypher in my Centurions to give them Shrouded and Hit and Run, which would solve some issues, but I'm not totally sure on it yet (yes, technically you can't Infiltrate FAQ blah blah but I've never seen that played by the FAQ ruling outside of a tournament).


You could always deploy them separately and join them on T1, if your opponent is really a stickler about it.


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