# Anyone math hammer ork lootas and tankbustas?



## Orius (Mar 9, 2009)

So I am trying to find out how truly viable lootas and tank bustas are and how many I need to field to have a positive kill ration per turn and per game.

I was just wondering if anyone has run the numbers on there shooting potential and ability to wound enemies and kill tanks.

basically I am trying to find the sweet spot of positive return for the points invested in a unit of either...

5 men? 8 men? 10? or 15? these I see as good places to start.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Orius said:


> So I am trying to find out how truly viable lootas and tank bustas are and how many I need to field to have a positive kill ration per turn and per game.
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone has run the numbers on there shooting potential and ability to wound enemies and kill tanks.
> 
> ...


Anti-Armor:

I have empirically found 8 to be a good number for Tankbustas. 6 rokkits, 1 tankhamma, 1 Nobz w/claw, 2 squigs. 1st Round, 6 Rokkit shots=2 average hits. Within Squig range, the Klaw and the Hamma "release the squigs" 2 high probability hits. I put them in a Looted Vehicle to get them delivered proppa. So 2 turns before vehicle assault gives 4 rokkit hits and 2 squigs. Assuming AV:13, .33 percent to get a 5 or 6. 66 percent of a damaging hit per round, 50% of those will penetrate. Not bad. Once you are assaulting, it's 6 attacks needing 4s (assuming the vehicle was firing) assumes 3 hits, with a 6+7=13. Against anything but a Land Raider you're getting 1.5 pens per round. Tankhamma gets average of 2 hits from 4 normal attacks, An average of 3.5 penetration. So with 2 hits you average at least a glancing on anything on the board. 

Lootas: 8 Lootas averaging 2 shots per, 16 shots per round. Average 2.75 hits. Rounding to 3, and against an AV of 13, this requires a 6 to glance, producing .5 glances per round. HTH, Lootas are just orks, and aren't an Anti-Armor choice


Anti-personnel

8 Tank-Bustas: Useless, they need to track down all armor first. If, however they have nothing in LOS, then 2 hits/round, 1.88 wounds rounds to 2. 2 dead from MEQ or better.

8 lootas: Averaging 3 hits per round, 2.88 wounds, rounds to 3. MEQ, 1 dead

Empirically, 12 lootas is what I've seen people fielding, if that helps.


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## Dafistofmork (Jan 9, 2009)

i have done no maths on it, but 5 tank bustas is not enough, heck 10 might not be enough(unless you can get them into combat with the tank hammer).
lootas however are brilliant-30 shots from just 10 men, and from 15...
i run a unit of 10 with SAG and a unit of 15-75 S5 AP4 shots, you can take out anything (bar armour 14 tanks).
EDIT:nijad


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## Orius (Mar 9, 2009)

Creon said:


> Anti-Armor:
> 
> I have empirically found 8 to be a good number for Tankbustas. 6 rokkits, 1 tankhamma, 1 Nobz w/claw, 2 squigs. 1st Round, 6 Rokkit shots=2 average hits. Within Squig range, the Klaw and the Hamma "release the squigs" 2 high probability hits. I put them in a Looted Vehicle to get them delivered proppa. So 2 turns before vehicle assault gives 4 rokkit hits and 2 squigs. Assuming AV:13, .33 percent to get a 5 or 6. 66 percent of a damaging hit per round, 50% of those will penetrate. Not bad. Once you are assaulting, it's 6 attacks needing 4s (assuming the vehicle was firing) assumes 3 hits, with a 6+7=13. Against anything but a Land Raider you're getting 1.5 pens per round. Tankhamma gets average of 2 hits from 4 normal attacks, An average of 3.5 penetration. So with 2 hits you average at least a glancing on anything on the board.
> 
> ...



Glorious, simply glorious. This is what Im talking about! :good:

It also mirrors my "gut" instinct of 8+ for tankbustas and 10+ for lootas.

I think I like ten tank bustas with two of them having tank hammers.

I just realized this, but on a charge tank hammers are str 11 right?


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## Trandoshanjake (Jul 22, 2008)

Orius said:


> I just realized this, but on a charge tank hammers are str 11 right?


10 is the max for stats, regardless of any modifiers that would bring it above 10.


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## Lash Machine (Nov 28, 2008)

In 4th ed I tried my tankbustas in both a big mob of either 12 or 14, or two smaller mobs of 6. The smaller mobs give you a bot more tactical flexibility but gets you hammered on kill points now. I now prefer the larger single mob and run it in a battle wagon with 3 squig bombs as in 5th Ed you need to really hammer a tank to get naywhere near to destroying.

I have not used the new lootas yet but I feel that the only effective way to use them is in units of 15 in a piece of terrain. This will give you between 5 to 15 str 7 hits and will give armour 12 or less veichles a bad day. Any opponenet worth his salt will try and get rid of lootas as fast aas possible whereas I have found that they ignore tankbustas a bit less and concentrate of the larger boyz mobz coming their way.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Go full strength mobs of 15 or don't bother.

Only 1/3rd of the shots will hit.

This means between 5 and 15 hits from Lootas, and 5 rokkit hits from tankbustas (tankhammers and bomb squigs aren't really worth the while if you just max out on rokkits)

This is still enough to do a *lot* of damage, but any smaller of a unit and it's not worth it, especially with orky leadership and weak armor.

If you take tankbustas, I suggest throwing them into a minimum-upgrade Battlewagon (Riggers, Kannon, Paint, no other weapons) and just tear around blowing shit up.


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## Orius (Mar 9, 2009)

no 'Ard Case on the wagon?

but I do like the way you think Galahad, I like it indeed!


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## Sebi (Mar 3, 2009)

but with Tankbustas I have the feeling they can do a wonderfull "commando" job if used right.

I will test them in my pocket army (1000pts) tomorrow against those pesky Kans and the Gargbot with two Tankhammers... after all if they charge they will get 6 S10 Attacks with normal Ini+1 and therefore strike before the Kan or Bot can and hopefully will "crack" it


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Sebi said:


> but with Tankbustas I have the feeling they can do a wonderfull "commando" job if used right.
> 
> I will test them in my pocket army (1000pts) tomorrow against those pesky Kans and the Gargbot with two Tankhammers... after all if they charge they will get 6 S10 Attacks with normal Ini+1 and therefore strike before the Kan or Bot can and hopefully will "crack" it



I like to cover the "unarmed" hammas with bomb squigs, so they get that 1st round of "fire" before the assault.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Orius said:


> no 'Ard Case on the wagon?
> 
> but I do like the way you think Galahad, I like it indeed!


No, open-topped is essential for firing. They *all* fire, instead of just a handful poking out of whatever fireports are facing the enemy

Roll up 7" and then fire 16 S8 AP3 attacks (counting the kannon), even at BS2, that's a hell of a lot of fire power from one tank.


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## Creon (Mar 5, 2009)

Galahad said:


> No, open-topped is essential for firing. They *all* fire, instead of just a handful poking out of whatever fireports are facing the enemy
> 
> Roll up 7" and then fire 16 S8 AP3 attacks (counting the kannon), even at BS2, that's a hell of a lot of fire power from one tank.


Especially since 7" is more than 6", and gives you the 6+ HTH hit.


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## Orius (Mar 9, 2009)

oh!! is that why the red paint is so good?

I never thought about the fact it allowed them to move past 6" and count for purposes of hth attacks.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Red paint is very much worth it. That extra inch may not seem like a lot, but it helps


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## ChaosSpaceMarineGuy (Jan 29, 2010)

Galahad said:


> No, open-topped is essential for firing. They *all* fire, instead of just a handful poking out of whatever fireports are facing the enemy
> 
> Roll up 7" and then fire 16 S8 AP3 attacks (counting the kannon), even at BS2, that's a hell of a lot of fire power from one tank.


I am not a big fan on the BW, so correct me if I am wrong. But I thought if a vehicle moved 6" it could only fire 1 main weap and then all defensive (according to the BRB). So how would that work?


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## Crimzzen (Jul 9, 2008)

ChaosSpaceMarineGuy said:


> I am not a big fan on the BW, so correct me if I am wrong. But I thought if a vehicle moved 6" it could only fire 1 main weap and then all defensive (according to the BRB). So how would that work?


You are correct, the VEHICLE may only fire 1 primary and all defensive. This does not extend to the orks inside. As long as the vehicle moves 6" or less, guys inside are allowed to fire. Being as the tank busters are assault weapons, they may fire and as the vehicle is open-topped - they all may fire.

On the subject of lootas, I strongly recommend 15. It may be overkill in some cases (although when you only roll 1 shot each you'll be glad you have 15, and nothing like scoring 3 shots each with 15 guys when trying to wipe that troop choice off an objective) but you need to look at much more than that. over 10 keeps em fearless, so you can afford a few casualties before you need to worry. Charging 15 orks is going to give some of the outflanking units out there pause to think vs charging 8 or something like that. Lootas are a prime target for most opponents to hit with artillery because of their killiness, so expect to be getting shot - I really think you need numbers to keep them effective.


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## ChaosSpaceMarineGuy (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about Rokkitz being assault. :laugh: My bad.


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## Tanrel (May 8, 2008)

I have used lootas in just about every battle of orks I've ever played and I've gotta say they are one of the best ork units in the game. They can really pour fire down range and at s7, light armor doesn't survive against them. Infantry, even heavy infantry doesn't last long. My only suggestion is that you take at least 2 squads so they can support each other.

Haven't ever thought Tankbusters were really worth their points.


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