# land raider trouble



## Captain Galus (Jan 2, 2008)

you guys are prolly gonna think im a total nublet but i simply CANNOT use my land raider effectively. It has yet to survive a single game, and has even embarrased me by being blown up due to no more than TWO genestealers.
i like to use it mostly as a mobile gun platform, often shooting at the same target as my snipers or softening up an enemy unit before charging with another
any suggestions or corrections on how the raider is really supposed to be use would be welcome


----------



## bl0203 (Nov 10, 2007)

Is it your only tank on the board? If so that may be part of your problem. Its a pretty high profile target which makes it a bullet magnet. You need to support it with other high profile targets to keep your enemies anti tank on it heels. In my experience most Land Raiders don't live through probably 80% of the games they're used in. Its just the nature of the beast which is unfortunate.


----------



## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I've got 4 suggestions

1) As blo said get something else which the enemy will want to destroy as well so that only half the amount of firepower is heading towards your Land Raider. If its your only tank this is even more important as ALL the enemies anti-tank will be going toward it. Buy a Pred or a Vindicator or something like that to take some of the heat away.

2) Get hulldown and use cover. Try and find a good postion where the LR is hulldown but still able to target a good vairty of units. If you have to move, use cover to block line of sight. Think of the LR like a lone wolf. Pick your targets and use cover. If you don't 'have' to move. Don't. You may be moving into a feild of enemy fire you havn't seen.

3) Prioritise your targets. For example for the LR any vechile based anti-tank i.e. Eldar Prisms, SM/CSM Preds/LRs, IG Russes, Tau Hammerheads and Battlesuits etc. These should be number *One* on your list of targets. Hell you've got the weapons to deal with them. 

Number *Two* should be infantry based anti-tank and CC monsters i.e. IG HW Teams, Eldar Fire Dragons, SM/CSM Termies/Vets/DPs/Commanders, Tryanid Big Creatures etc

If they are Mech units they should be a *One point Five*

Number *Three* is everything else.

4) Support it with other units. A LR isn't going to be able to stand up to everyhting that the enemy has to throw at it and just keep on going. It needs to be supported by the other units in your army. If you see a Deamon Prince going for it and you have a choice between that and a unit of Lesser Deamons that are just not doing much to shoot at with a Dev Squad then take the DP down first as you can't rely on a LR to kill it by itself. That may sound a little like overkill but we are talking about a 250 point + unit here, its worth protecting. If you use the LR to take out any anti-tank in the army quickly then you have a vechile that many units can't touch and its going to really help you win the game even if your other units arn't doing as well.

I'm not saying protect it at any cost I'm just saying that using it in conjunction with other units is very important.

Lecture over lol


----------



## Urban Knight (Nov 13, 2007)

or secret option number 5 - Stop using the Land Raider. In my experience it is a very expensive jack of all trades master of non tank.

If you are using it as a transport and moving 12" you don't get to shoot, and if you are using it as a gun platform you are paying a premium for the ability to tranport troops which you are not using.

Simply put there are cheaper ways to get the job done - Drop Pods or Las Cannon Preds. Hell for an extra 10 - 20 points you can get 2 preds for 1 LR and thore extra HB shots will help against Genestealers.

I have a SM LR a LR Crusader and a Forgeworld Pre Heresy Chaos LR and sadly they spend all of their time on a shelf.


----------



## Someguy (Nov 19, 2007)

I agree with Urban Knight on this one. The reason your LR is not doing well is because they are not good tanks. They cost a lot more points than they are worth. 

If you want mobile firepower then get two predator annihilators with heavy bolter sponsons. It costs a fraction more, but gives you more firepower (even one pred has more shots on the move) and puts it in two places, so you don't have to worry about the whole thing dying to two lucky Genestealers.


----------



## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

Land Raiders will be a more attractive option when the 5th Edition 40k Rules are released -- so long as the rumours are fairly accurate. Also Land Raiders are lots of fun and "just look right" in Apocalypse games so for now there's that.


----------



## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

FrozenOrb said:


> Land Raiders will be a more attractive option when the 5th Edition 40k Rules are released -- so long as the rumours are fairly accurate. Also Land Raiders are lots of fun and "just look right" in Apocalypse games so for now there's that.



Agreed, Legion-Brother!

I find standard landraiders just don't fit the bill for anti-tank work. I try to match up my tanks against infantry units (especially mechanized advancing ones) that have little in the way of anti-tank. I include units that have melta guns in this one if I can safely stay out of their range while engaging them. Ditto for my devastators. They nail the ordinance tanks, standard tanks, and then anything that's a big threat after that. Tanks can not slug it out with anti-tank infantry units. 

Ever thought of using a Crusader? You could convert one using 6 storm bolters from the vehicle accessory sprue or trade your friends' bitz box. I myself have one for my Space Wolves army (think 15 bloodclaws...)

But my all time favourite (and most useful IMHO) LR variant is the Prometheus.

Granted its, Forgeworld, but FW rules for variants of existing vehicles are not overpowered.

You get FOUR twin linked heavy bolters and a storm bolter.

That's averaging 10.5 hits out of twelve shots, being able to move 6"and shoot for full effect while still retaining a transport capability for third of a marine more than a much shorter ranged Crusader. It I don't think there anything that touches its anti-infantry/skimmer capacity for only one FOC slot.

Just remember to have more threatening units on the field for your opponent to worry about and shoot at.

I like to use my tank(s) as clean up boys for my dev squad(s). They sklk aroudn out of LOS until they can deal with an isolated portion of an opposing army. They deal with the flankers and deepstrikers while much tougher, more effective firepower unit(s) get placed in commanding fire lanes to duke it out with my opponents top units.

You would be surprised how survivable a tank can be when you play conservatively with it and don't expect it to blast everything in sight and dominate the board. 

That's usually what happens because red shirts get rookie pumped to buy one after explaining how "killy" it is.


----------



## cccp (Dec 15, 2006)

standard land raiders are kinda a waste of points imo. 

if you use it as a transport, make sure that you get the squad to its target as fast as possible, by moving 12" a turn.

other than that, what people have mentioned. or just get two predators instead


----------



## Tiberius (Dec 15, 2007)

Sons of Russ said:


> But my all time favourite (and most useful IMHO) LR variant is the Prometheus.


I am glad that someone else sees the beauty of the Variant. IMO it is a diamond in the ruff. I have won more games using this variant, and to stay on topic it always survies. Most people have ignored it beacuse it is only armed with Hvy Bolters, and by the time they realize how effective it is. It's 14 armour will keep it around.


----------



## DeusMortemEst (Dec 14, 2007)

But, suppose you are doing a Deatheing army, or something similar with a lot of terminators? Does that somehow make the LR more usefull? 

I hope I didn't make a huge mistake when I bought one...


----------



## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

FrozenOrb said:


> Land Raiders will be a more attractive option when the 5th Edition 40k Rules are released -- so long as the rumours are fairly accurate.


Woah! just let me get this straight there is a 5th edition coming soon? I have to go out and buy another $80 rulebook! No way! I'm not learning a whole bunch of new rules!:angry:


----------



## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Muhahahahhahaha! Yes, yes. All the fools now realize the folly of buying a rulebook three months before the new one comes out!!

Well, judging by the rumors, it'll be somewhere around end of July/September. 

-Dirge.


----------



## The Deserter (May 28, 2007)

That is SO not fair!! How did you find out?


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

the better question is how did you not know, there are a good 3 or 4 threads about it on here alone.


----------



## torealis (Dec 27, 2006)

nevertheless, to play now, at your local, or at tournies, you need to have a copy of the rulebook.

oh, and land raiders are great. so keep it on topic.


----------



## uberschveinen (Dec 29, 2006)

Not really. Their strengths as a transport and a fire-support weapon are at cross-purposes, so you can't use both effectively. Predators are better fire platforms, Rhinos are far more cost-effective transports for infantry, and the Land Raider Crusader holds more troops, gives them frags, and is far more effective once you've dumped the payload.


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

suggestion

1: rip off Lascannon
2: Rips off heavy bolters
3: replace lascannons with Hurricane bolters
4: replace Heavy bolters with Assault cannons
5: glue on multi melta
6: spit on normal useless Landraider


----------



## FrozenOrb (Dec 23, 2006)

It's a Land Raider Crusader I use which seems to me as a good deal better than a plain Land Raider. The Prometheus sounds great (reroll a reserve roll = yes please!), and only £16 for the upgrade kit from Forge World... I might just eventually buy that.


----------



## martin4696 (Oct 30, 2007)

i would only take a landraider in fun games and even then wouldnt expect it to survive. its a built magnet (not even the best bth) but thats what its does, every one goes hhhmmm very expensive tank with vertual no guns (pauseses) :grin::grin::laugh:

if you want fire power go predator 
if you want transport go rhino- drop pod

imo
martin


----------



## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

I have a LR just so it can soak up Lascannon and ML rounds. Not much else. Sometimes I use it as a taxi for my Termies, but I find far more often my Crusaders can mush anything that comes near to paste. I'd rather replace the Hurricane bolters with those Prometheus heavy bolters, though.

-Dirge


----------



## Stella Cadente (Dec 25, 2006)

another thing a Land raider is fantastic at is distracting your enemy while he laughs at it (due to it being more useless than a Trojan), and while hes distracted by rolling on the floor laughing, you can replace it for whatever real unit you were going to use


----------



## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a feeling people will stop laughing at Landraiders by the end of summer.....

I may make my as-yet-to-be-overhauled Prometheus a regular part of my 2000 pt army...


----------



## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

why whats happening ?


----------



## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

i might swap out my land raiders for thunder hammer termis and lgightenign claw termis / chaine fist


----------



## Sons of Russ (Dec 29, 2007)

http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2008/01/rumors-40k-5th-edition-round-4.html

can you say 3+ cover save for my Landraider?

Or how about -2 result for glancing hits, meaning no effect at all for a 1-2 roll, and a maximum effect of immobilized.....(single vehicle damage table)

While vehicles will be getting their own restrictions which will change the way they play, (if these playtests go to print as is) vehicle survivability will leap by an order of magnitude...


----------



## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

oh nice very nice indeed


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

hey son of russ, its reduced by 2 to a minimum of 1, so it will atleast be shaken. thats if its like the Apoc glancing table


----------



## Lord Sinkoran (Dec 23, 2006)

try and get it behibd cover to gain hull down. or just take it, its a lanraider a fire magnet


----------



## purepolarpanzer (Jan 8, 2008)

Sons of Russ said:


> While vehicles will be getting their own restrictions which will change the way they play, (if these playtests go to print as is) vehicle survivability will leap by an order of magnitude...


Except skimmers:fuck: they die now you eldar hooligans!!! HEHEHEHEHE!! Tau, you better watch out too! The age of the nerf has come!


----------



## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

eldar will never bee nerfed.. holo field anyone hahhahaa with the new rules aswell.. cover + holofield ahahhha

that just means hevay wepaons platforms for eldar people

same range lower costs count as troops or Heavy

hahhahaha

or just wraiths


----------



## dred73 (Jan 24, 2008)

DeusMortemEst said:


> But, suppose you are doing a Deatheing army, or something similar with a lot of terminators? Does that somehow make the LR more usefull?
> 
> I hope I didn't make a huge mistake when I bought one...







Well they are good in deathwing but since the new book came out you dont have to youse them as much anymore. With the first turn deep strike and telport homers on scouting bikes. A land raider just does not seem very feasable anymore.


----------



## Ordo Xeno Commander (Jan 17, 2007)

The original LR is losing its purpose. its too broad. the Crusader however is purely an assault tank, dedicated to getting troops to the front line in safety while almost ensuring safety for the assaulting troops by shooting anything nearby that could assault them while they comat the target.


----------



## Mad King George (Jan 15, 2008)

i have 2 landraiders

1 land raider is a sit back and shoot with a helios upgrade 

the other is a crusader which gets my blood claws to the frontline fast

after the claws are out i dont mind if the land raider dies because bloodclaws are nuts

oooh 300 posts


so my helios is ord with 2 twin linked las cannons 

crusader goes forward troops disembark then it shoots everything


----------



## abaddonthedespoir (Jan 28, 2008)

Similarly, I use a chaos land raider to transport my Khorne Berzerkers. You can get a few close combat troops. Don't know what they could be, assult termintors or something like so.


----------



## purepolarpanzer (Jan 8, 2008)

Mad King George said:


> eldar will never bee nerfed.. holo field anyone hahhahaa with the new rules aswell.. cover + holofield ahahhha
> 
> that just means hevay wepaons platforms for eldar people
> 
> ...


Holofield doesn't help much on penetrating hits. Especially when lootas get 5 of them.

ALIVE!
CRIPPLED!
DEAD! 
CRIPPLED! 
DEAD!
And nothing else the eldar have are overpowered enough to worry about. The invinicible skimmer rules got old the first day someone realized how bull they were. Vibros are bad, but laughable compared to Falcon Gravs and Prisms. Wraiths, well, are good, but they die. Falcon Gravs don't. Therefore, nothing to worry about.


----------



## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

The Eldar are such pushovers right now it's not even funny. It takes a really sharp player to do well with them, and my experience has shown that more often than not... there's a Space Marine at heart calling the shots with them. Single tactical mistakes are basically fatal to an Eldar army, which is why it's not terribly hard to beat them. But that's not really what the discussion is about.

I've always found Land Raiders to be a tremendous liability. Crusaders are sexy vehicles, and they do their job amazingly well. HOWEVER, when the crusader gets shot up before it's had a chance to unload its contents or shoot anyone, the game basically has gone down the hole for you. I've found that they're a bit too fragile (which sounds stupid, but hear me out) to be truly useful. A 65-point land speeder packing a multi-melta pretty much just needs to hit to get a penetrating hit on a Raider, which is why I tend to keep one around. Similarly, because of the Raider's assault role, it's going to get into meltagun range all by itself... you don't even have to chase it that much. Only new players around here seem to use Land Raiders these days, and they quickly learn to stop bringing 'em. The points are ultimately better spent on a geared up squad.


----------

