# Questions regarding the primarchs (horus heresy book questions/spoilers)



## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

So I was reading a few books the other day, and after finishing them I was thinking of a few questions.

1. Did Magnus lose his physical/material form after Russ broke his back?
A. I ask this due to when Magnus is communicating with Lorgar in "betrayer", lorgar quite often comments on Magnus's new etheral form, and also ask Magnus "how did it feel when Russ broke your back over his knee/how are you enjoying your new etheral form?".

2. Lorgar was able to telepathically repulse Magnus when he attempted to probe his thoughts during the primarch meeting aboard Horus's ship, in comparison to Magnus just how close was Lorgar (in psyker power)?
A. Additionally he was able to freeze Horus solid with the power of his mind, and Horus was helpless before him as well as being able to (claiming he could) instantly kill the daemon inside Fulgrim.

3. Was the psychic power Lorgar unlocked different from the one Magnus wielded? 
A. I noticed in the books that featured Magnus, or when marines spoke of him they often described Magnus powers as being to shred matter, conjure up lightening, etc (IE - Very direct usage of psyker powers). However the way Lorgar uses his powers when fighting such as in Betrayer, it just makes me wonder could he also have conjured up lightening and blown marines to pieces by staring at them? Or was his his more of a "Buff/debuff himself and his opponents", as well as being able to summon things. Overall where Magnus seemed like a mage, Lorgar seemed like a Warlock in that he would summon entities, or conjure up storms, etc.

4. I know the sigilite observed Angron while he slept, and commented that removing the nails was near impossible without potentially killing Angron, but did he/the emperor know that Angron was going to die eventually? Or was Lorgar misled into believing that Angron was dying, as a way for him to forcefully elevate his brother into daemonhood?

5. If the chaos powers, in particular Khorne wanted Sanguinius because of the deep berserk inside of him (IE the red and black strands of fate inside of sang), does that mean he would have been the best fit for Khorne and not Angron? Which leads me to my next question, how would have Angron been if he never suffered the nails? I imagine he would have been driven by honor (such as his hate for cowardice), pride, and bravery?

6. Why did the Emperor state to Curze upon finding him that his world/solar system of trade was the ideal, and that Curze matched his vision of what the Imperial galaxy should be? Did he say this to all his sons, or did he truly mean it? It just baffles me why he complimented Curze so well, and yet in the end has him assassinated.
A. Or is it that the sigilite dispatched the assassins, and the emperor did not know? (i know in the books it doesn't confirm one way or the other)

I'll post more questions soon.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

False gods gives the impression that the technology to remove the nail was available but angron didn't want them removed.

As for the rest I don't know.


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

I think Magnus was healed after he reached Daemonhood, I mean, why wouldn't he? So my thought on the 'ethereal form' is that it's a form of communication he uses since he's so busy up in his tower. 

It's quite likely, if not already proven, that Lorgar had psychic capabilities, although probably much less than Magnus, since he's usually described as being the second strongest psyker in the universe, behind the Emperor. It's possible Lorgar had a different set of powers from his brother or possibly any psyker at that point.


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

In Battle of the Fang, it is described that Magnus was no longer truly corporeal. I believe it also said this in A Thousand Sons. When he uttered those words as Russ was about to finish him off, his physical form was destroyed. Now it is just his ethereal form.

The assassins were sent after Curze because he was one of the traitor primarchs. Curze even let the assassin kill him. Wont go into details why he did so. 

I'm sure Khorne would have been delighted to have both Sanguinius and Angron. If all had worked out, and Sanguinius had fallen to Chaos, then Khorne would've had two blood thirsty bad asses to fight in his name, rather than just Angron.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

Lux said:


> 1. Did Magnus lose his physical/material form after Russ broke his back?


Yes, but not as a result of the injury. Magnus was elevated to daemonhood shortly after the attack, resulting in the loss of his material form.



> 2. Lorgar was able to telepathically repulse Magnus when he attempted to probe his thoughts during the primarch meeting aboard Horus's ship, in comparison to Magnus just how close was Lorgar (in psyker power)?


I haven't read the book but my understanding was that Magnus was projecting from quite a distance. The fluff is pretty consistent with the idea that greater distance = weaker powers, so the fact that Lorgar (physically present) could repulse Magnus (projecting at a distance) doesn't really indicate that Lorgar is a powerful psyker. It merely suggests a level of mental control over himself.



> 3. Was the psychic power Lorgar unlocked different from the one Magnus wielded?


Lorgar's gifts don't really seem to become present until after he turned to Chaos, whereas Magnus had them the whole time. Thus I'd suggest that Lorgar's abilities really are gifts (as in, given by someone else), rather than innate like Magnus'. 



> 5. If the chaos powers, in particular Khorne wanted Sanguinius because of the deep berserk inside of him (IE the red and black strands of fate inside of sang), does that mean he would have been the best fit for Khorne and not Angron?


The act of corruption has a great deal of power/attraction to Chaos. Sanguinius was 'pure', he was the Angel a paragon of everything the Primarchs could be. Corrupting the Angel is a challenge, and has great power because of that. The daemons make numerous comments to this effect in _Fear to Tread_, it's more about a fallen angels symbolism than it is about Sanguinius being a better fit. I think it's hard to argue that Angron wasn't a prefect fit, especially as the ideal end-state for Sanguinius seemed to be what Angron already is.



> Which leads me to my next question, how would have Angron been if he never suffered the nails? I imagine he would have been driven by honor (such as his hate for cowardice), pride, and bravery?


Almost impossible to say. If we take the idea that each of the Primarchs represents a facet of the Emperor as fact than I think the Emperor's hate and rage are already present (in the Wolves and the BA mostly). But then so is the Emperor's honour (Dorn, Lion), pride (Magnus, Fulgrim) and bravery (basically all of them). Assuming a similar background for Angron than those things would make sense, as they are typical of a gladiator, but again it's hard to say.



> 6. Why did the Emperor state to Curze upon finding him that his world/solar system of trade was the ideal, and that Curze matched his vision of what the Imperial galaxy should be? Did he say this to all his sons, or did he truly mean it? It just baffles me why he complimented Curze so well, and yet in the end has him assassinated.


Because the ideal of the Imperium changed and Night Haunter refused to change with it. During the Great Crusade brutality and terror were acceptable, but as the Great Crusade drew to a close they no longer were. The ends ceased to justify the means and the means were increasingly questioned. This happens to a lot of the Legions not just the Night Lords and all of those Legions were eventually punished for their 'failing' to adapt. 



> A. Or is it that the sigilite dispatched the assassins, and the emperor did not know? (i know in the books it doesn't confirm one way or the other)


_Nemesis _makes it clear that the Emperor had complete control over the Officio Assassinorium, to suggest that he wouldn't have been aware of the Sigilitte dispatching numerous assassins, on his home ground (the first assassin came at Night Haunter on Terra) and against his own son is nothing short of ludicrous. 

I'll post more questions soon.[/QUOTE]


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

MEQinc said:


> Lorgar's gifts don't really seem to become present until after he turned to Chaos, whereas Magnus had them the whole time. Thus I'd suggest that Lorgar's abilities really are gifts (as in, given by someone else), rather than innate like Magnus'.


Lorgar himself claimed he had always repressed his own psychic abilities and always feared to utilise them. Until of course, he embraced Chaos. So it seems that his psychic abilities were also innate.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

That means Magnus was the first primarch to become a daemon prince? I wonder why that is.

All the other primarchs had to go through tremendous ordeals to be elevated, or in Angron's case he was artificially ascended via Lorgar's magics and the system of Calth burning. 

Additionally, was Magnus a daemon prince since the beginning (pre GC)? I ask this because through the books many question who or what Magnus really is, and draw the parallel that Magnus like his father could choose his appearance and shape at will. 

I'm just wondering if maybe when Magnus made a deal with chaos (did they ever explain this in detail?) that he was ascended to a daemon prince, but did not realize it /still had his physical form?

Maybe his physical form has been a skin all this time?


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

Well, he did make a deal, but he didn't know who he had made the deal with at the time. The price was his eye, hence why he only has the one eye at all. The end being his legion was safe from the mutations that was plaguing them. He thought they'd be permanently safe, but we find out at the end of A Thousand Sons that this isn't the case. They were only safe for a time.

Magnus only mentioned the inward turning of his eye as being the only cost to safe his legion. I don't think he became a deamon prince unknowingly as a price of the deal he made. Otherwise, i'm sure he would have noticed that something felt off about his physical form.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

In betrayer Magnus mentions about the deal he made to save his legion, he specifically mentions that one of his favorite reasons he hears the other legions state is that "I bartered my eye for my legions salvation, that one amuses me most".

It just makes me think that the true reason he lost his eye isn't due to the contract maybe?


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

1. Did Magnus lose his physical/material form after Russ broke his back?
A. I ask this due to when Magnus is communicating with Lorgar in "betrayer", lorgar quite often comments on Magnus's new etheral form, and also ask Magnus "how did it feel when Russ broke your back over his knee/how are you enjoying your new etheral form?".

I wouldn't say right after but when he ascended, in that sense, he lost it there.

2. Lorgar was able to telepathically repulse Magnus when he attempted to probe his thoughts during the primarch meeting aboard Horus's ship, in comparison to Magnus just how close was Lorgar (in psyker power)?
A. Additionally he was able to freeze Horus solid with the power of his mind, and Horus was helpless before him as well as being able to (claiming he could) instantly kill the daemon inside Fulgrim.

I don't think we have enough information to really make a case. Its possible that Lorgar's powers were tainted from the beginning of his arrival on his home planet. Magnus on the other hand simply made one deal with saving his legion (or as far as we know).

3. Was the psychic power Lorgar unlocked different from the one Magnus wielded? 
A. I noticed in the books that featured Magnus, or when marines spoke of him they often described Magnus powers as being to shred matter, conjure up lightening, etc (IE - Very direct usage of psyker powers). However the way Lorgar uses his powers when fighting such as in Betrayer, it just makes me wonder could he also have conjured up lightening and blown marines to pieces by staring at them? Or was his his more of a "Buff/debuff himself and his opponents", as well as being able to summon things. Overall where Magnus seemed like a mage, Lorgar seemed like a Warlock in that he would summon entities, or conjure up storms, etc.

They also use different abilties for different purposes. Lorgar has been using the very rawest and corrupted form from the Chaos Gods. Its hard to say if they have different abilities.

4. I know the sigilite observed Angron while he slept, and commented that removing the nails was near impossible without potentially killing Angron, but did he/the emperor know that Angron was going to die eventually? Or was Lorgar misled into believing that Angron was dying, as a way for him to forcefully elevate his brother into daemonhood?

Could be both. I don't have a clear answer for this one. Its possible the Emperor knew he was going to die and didn't say anything because he was cold towards certain primarchs and not others. Lorgar could have also been misled by the events which has happened on more than one occassion.

5. If the chaos powers, in particular Khorne wanted Sanguinius because of the deep berserk inside of him (IE the red and black strands of fate inside of sang), does that mean he would have been the best fit for Khorne and not Angron? Which leads me to my next question, how would have Angron been if he never suffered the nails? I imagine he would have been driven by honor (such as his hate for cowardice), pride, and bravery?

Angron before the nails really took their toll seems to be an honorable, prideful and I would say noble warrior. I think you would have been able to show these characteristics had it not been for the butcher's nails

However, I think he would have still been able to be overcome by Chaos and resented the Emperor. I relate him in many ways to Russ but with a difference. As a warrior he is very honorable and brotherly. I would also say that he's shown loyalty to those on his side. 

Its towards the emperor that Angron seems to have this difference. There's the love that Russ has for the Emperor which is unconditional, and then the love that I think Angron would have had, had it not been for the nails. I wouldn't say its conditional but I believe he would have viewed the Emperor as a friend and ally and not a superior. If the Emperor would have slighted him he would have been deeply offended, betrayed, and heart broken that a "friend" had betrayed him. I think it has a lot to do with the mindset of brotherhood in the arena. The idea that all who fight together are equal and there is not a superior. Those who have watched Spartacus know what I'm talking about.

6. Why did the Emperor state to Curze upon finding him that his world/solar system of trade was the ideal, and that Curze matched his vision of what the Imperial galaxy should be? Did he say this to all his sons, or did he truly mean it? It just baffles me why he complimented Curze so well, and yet in the end has him assassinated.
A. Or is it that the sigilite dispatched the assassins, and the emperor did not know? (i know in the books it doesn't confirm one way or the other)

I've seen people use this evidence to say Curze was a vital Primarch, however, after I've never seen anything that says the Emperor supported Curzes ways. 

I'd like to think the Emperor knew what Curze was and always knew that Curze needed to get dispensed with. Thats why Curze told the Emperor in a sarcastic tone.

"That is not my name, Father. I am Night Haunter, and I know full well what you intend for me."

Its pretty much Curze telling the Emperor that he knows how the Emperor views him. The Emperor doesn't have to sugar coat it, Curze represents a primarch for the Emperor's grand schemes, but the Night Haunter is what he really is. And thats not someone the Emperor needs for the future of the Imperium.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

Lux said:


> In betrayer Magnus mentions about the deal he made to save his legion, he specifically mentions that one of his favorite reasons he hears the other legions state is that "I bartered my eye for my legions salvation, that one amuses me most".
> 
> It just makes me think that the true reason he lost his eye isn't due to the contract maybe?


I think Magnus is appreciating the irony of his binding his legion to Chaos, however unwittingly, as a means to 'save' them from their physiologies natural rebellion against such. He in fact gave up his eye to ultimately condemn his legion, as A Thousand Sons details.

Regarding Lorgar, in The First Heretic, he's told by Ingethel that he's the primary scion of the Chaos Gods among all the Primarchs. When I first read that I was wondering, WTF, but that role is for Horus! As the HH books have gone on, I've come to realize that Horus is more like Roger Daltry, the front man who everyone recognizes and is the face/voice to the movement; however, Lorgar is more like Pete Townshend, the one writing the lyrics and music, organizing the business end, really making the band work and what it is (he, he, he, he... lets hear some commentary from my British bretheren on that one!).

Even with that being the case, I think it's pretty obvious during the battle of Isstvan V that if he had already ascended (descended?) to Daemonhood he wouldn't have had his ass kicked by Corax and needed Curze to pretty handily get Corax off his back. From the narrative he was still in what I think of as his, 'whiney little pussy' phase.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

So I was going through Betrayer again, and noticed a particular instance during the book that displayed Lorgar using Psychic powers.

It was when Lorgar first teleported onto the planet at the junction, when the Ultramarine thunderhawk opened fire upon him. "Lorgar raised his hands towards the thunderhawk, clenching his fingers in a claw like position. He pulled at the air, the Thunderhawk's engines were ripped out of it followed by black smoke. Lorgar again pulled at the air and the Thunderhawk in an explosion of fire was pulled from the sky to the ground."

I found this to be a really good display of Lorgar's powers in combat, it seems he possess a powerful level of telekinesis, which again matches when he used telekinesis to freeze Horus in place when he confronted him on the vengeful spirit post of Istvaan.

Another instance of this, or rather the first one would be when Lorgar telekinetic repulses Corax during their fight, if not momentarily and weakly but none the less used a telekinetic push.

Additionally Lorgar used telekinesis to repulse gulliman during their fight as well,


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## soonergold (Mar 9, 2011)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Regarding Lorgar, in The First Heretic, he's told by Ingethel that he's the primary scion of the Chaos Gods among all the Primarchs. When I first read that I was wondering, WTF, but that role is for Horus! As the HH books have gone on, I've come to realize that Horus is more like Roger Daltry, the front man who everyone recognizes and is the face/voice to the movement; however, Lorgar is more like Pete Townshend, the one writing the lyrics and music, organizing the business end, really making the band work and what it is (he, he, he, he... lets hear some commentary from my British bretheren on that one!).


Lorgar was the entry point, the mechanism. But Horus was always the focus. Only Horus could have gathered half (or more as hoped) of the primarchs to his cause. Lorgar could have never done that, but he was the seed that got to Horus through Erebus.



Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Even with that being the case, I think it's pretty obvious during the battle of Isstvan V that if he had already ascended (descended?) to Daemonhood he wouldn't have had his ass kicked by Corax and needed Curze to pretty handily get Corax off his back. From the narrative he was still in what I think of as his, 'whiney little pussy' phase.


Hard to say, we have seen primarchs are impossibly strong. Are they stronger or weaker as daemon primarchs? We have seen pre and post daemon primarch Angron. Pre he mowed through hundreds of space marines, post less than 109. Yes Grey Knights, specialist troops versus chaos and we saw a chapter master and hit elite mow through a Grey Knight grandmaster and his elite.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

Lux said:


> So I was going through Betrayer again, and noticed a particular instance during the book that displayed Lorgar using Psychic powers.
> 
> It was when Lorgar first teleported onto the planet at the junction, when the Ultramarine thunderhawk opened fire upon him. "Lorgar raised his hands towards the thunderhawk, clenching his fingers in a claw like position. He pulled at the air, the Thunderhawk's engines were ripped out of it followed by black smoke. Lorgar again pulled at the air and the Thunderhawk in an explosion of fire was pulled from the sky to the ground."
> 
> ...


So if Lorgar was such a bad ass why didn't he take on the big E? Or was he just chortling his big daemon arse off whilst Horus got his buttocks handed to him?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> So if Lorgar was such a bad ass why didn't he take on the big E? Or was he just chortling his big daemon arse off whilst Horus got his buttocks handed to him?


I will admit, I laughed...alot at "Chortling his big daemon arse off".

I believe Horus at that point in his fight with the Emperor was the Avatar/conduit of all of the big 4 chaos "gods", he was channeling the full power and psyche of the 4 chaos gods. Which is why he was so amazingly powerful, he was for all intents and purpose the 4 chaos gods manifest in a physical body.

I personally believe all the primarchs are equal, each having their own powers and abilities, such as Mortarion being able to teleport or Vulkan having beyond ridiculous toughness and the ability to see through illusions. Such as when his sons are able to see through the sons of Corax ability to "shadow step", the vulkan son comments "A gift inherited from our father, to be able to see all" or some thing similar to that.

Point being I don't believe Lorgar is on the Emperor's level, or any of the primarchs so that may be why he just chose to chortle his ass off instead.

Each of the primarchs were psykers, and had gifts from the emperor that he coded into their DNA from the start as hinted at in Deliverance lost.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Lux said:


> I personally believe all the primarchs are equal, each having their own powers and abilities, such as Mortarion being able to teleport or Vulkan having beyond ridiculous toughness and the ability to see through illusions. Such as when his sons are able to see through the sons of Corax ability to "shadow step", the vulkan son comments "A gift inherited from our father, to be able to see all" or some thing similar to that.


Explains the reason why Talos has visions, and Night Lords in general have rampant paranoia and mistrust of everything. Good point.

Midnight


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

Mortarion can teleport now eh?


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

Angel of Blood said:


> Mortarion can teleport now eh?


Mortarion's 'teleportation' is put by FW as something like knowing the dark paths to pass unnoticed. It's not put on the same scale as Corax's ability to steal his image from men's minds. That said, in A Thousand Sons he does sneak right up on Magnus at Nikaea, who only notices him through the presence of his bodyguard. It's not definitive but might support it.

Another one would be the psychic forcefield that the Lion put up in "The Lion Novella". Lorgar also has some form of psychic forcefield in Betrayer, he took two full charged plasma cannon rounds to his face from a titan, he used his psychic force field to shield himself (the second a bit unsuccessfully) from them.

Also in Fear to Tread, Sanguinus covers his sword with fire and it is never mentioned as being a force sword merely the sister sword to the one Horus has.


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

I need to have a real sit down with _Betrayal_ this weekend. It would seem I skimmed through it a little too fast.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Lux said:


> Mortarion's 'teleportation' is put by FW as something like knowing the dark paths to pass unnoticed. It's not put on the same scale as Corax's ability to steal his image from men's minds. That said, in A Thousand Sons he does sneak right up on Magnus at Nikaea, who only notices him through the presence of his bodyguard. It's not definitive but might support it.


I need to read Thousand Sons again, but I'm fairly sure that's thanks to the Shielding of Mort's mind due to being against Psykers absolutely and his hatred thereof. Another rule-of-cooling that makes no sense, but hey, it's Graham McNeil, I'm used to it. I could be wrong however.



> Another one would be the psychic forcefield that the Lion put up in "The Lion Novella". Lorgar also has some form of psychic forcefield in Betrayer, he took two full charged plasma cannon rounds to his face from a titan, he used his psychic force field to shield himself (the second a bit unsuccessfully) from them.


Less said about The Lion, the better. "Oh crap, I forgot about Nemiel and couldn't get him to fit in seemlessly without rewriting the story, so let's just punch his face off". Smacks a little bit of "choosing to ignore fluff" which is a bit counterintuitive, but still, that's one of the worst books in the Heresy, and is thankfully only a short. Compared to say "After De-Shea" it holds no comparison.



> Also in Fear to Tread, Sanguinus covers his sword with fire and it is never mentioned as being a force sword merely the sister sword to the one Horus has.


From a meta-fluff perspective, the writer is known to go balls deep into the fluff, and then slime all over it. Not one of the worst writers by far, is James Swallow (Hi, Nick Kyme!; although Graham McNeil is gradually creeping up), but he has a habit of writing a story and then making that story fit 40K, rather than writing a 40K story. I thought we had managed to escape that when Dan Abnett started on his later versions of the Last Chancers that were no longer "Sharpe in Space", and there started to be a semi-codified standard of background that had to be met outside of grammatically correct prose, but it seems that the editors seem to have forgotten that.

It's how we get "teleporting Primarch's" and "Rule of Cool flaming swords just 'coz".


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## DeathJester921 (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't remember Sanguinius ever psychically lighting his sword on fire... Page numbers would be awesome.


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## Lux (Apr 17, 2010)

I would have to go back amd get the page number but i will do so.

Additionally in betrayer when it is describing kharns rampage and his love for war it says "and yet through the dust he could see lorgar hurling great rocks and fallen architecture aside with teleknitic fury, the primarch was diggin deep leaving the air tense with the pall of psychic resonance sharp enough to breed migraines and toothaches among those near by. Any ultramarine descending into the hole died without lorgar even sparing a glance, mirage waves of teleknitic pressure slammed into whole squads hurling them away to die against the rocks.".

"A warhound turned its weapons upon the primarch, lorgars gauntlets rimmed with psychic whorefrost lifted a chunk of broken masonry the size of a rhino transport and hurled itacross the avenue. Such was its speed that it dust waves parted in its wake. It smashed the titans pilot chamber and the titan fell over


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## DarthMarko (Aug 20, 2012)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> I think Magnus is appreciating the irony of his binding his legion to Chaos, however unwittingly, as a means to 'save' them from their physiologies natural rebellion against such. He in fact gave up his eye to ultimately condemn his legion, as A Thousand Sons details.
> 
> Regarding Lorgar, in The First Heretic, he's told by Ingethel that he's the primary scion of the Chaos Gods among all the Primarchs. When I first read that I was wondering, WTF, but that role is for Horus! As the HH books have gone on, I've come to realize that Horus is more like Roger Daltry, the front man who everyone recognizes and is the face/voice to the movement; however, Lorgar is more like Pete Townshend, the one writing the lyrics and music, organizing the business end, really making the band work and what it is (he, he, he, he... lets hear some commentary from my British bretheren on that one!).
> 
> Even with that being the case, I think it's pretty obvious during the battle of Isstvan V that if he had already ascended (descended?) to Daemonhood he wouldn't have had his ass kicked by Corax and needed Curze to pretty handily get Corax off his back. From the narrative he was still in what I think of as his, 'whiney little pussy' phase.


Just wanted to say "the WHO" ROCKS, and I loved your analogy...


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmm, missed that post in my first read through. Did Ingethel not say what he needed to? How many times have you told a 6 or 7 at closing time that "You've had eyes on her the entire night, but too shy to approach" when really you were getting desperate that you were the only one to not trap that night? And like Little Miss 6 or 7, Lorgar got all pumped up, feeding his own Insecurities with justification, his own "Fat kit comes last at sports day wins "Tries Very Hard" Medal"? His psychic powers, which he before "didn't use" are of a similar strength as the Daemon bound Fulgrim; able to take out a titan with a single power. Who's to say that the Daemon's did not empower him to a similar level, but rather than making it obvious his psychic power was due to Chaos blessing was an ego-stroke to say "it's all you baby".

Meanwhile, Russ is pissing on trees thinking he's head honcho/judge jury executioner, Magnus is taking down Titans like a boss.


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Over Two Meters Tall! said:


> Regarding Lorgar, in The First Heretic, he's told by Ingethel that he's the primary scion of the Chaos Gods among all the Primarchs. When I first read that I was wondering, WTF, but that role is for Horus! As the HH books have gone on, I've come to realize that Horus is more like Roger Daltry, the front man who everyone recognizes and is the face/voice to the movement; however, Lorgar is more like Pete Townshend, the one writing the lyrics and music, organizing the business end, really making the band work and what it is (he, he, he, he... lets hear some commentary from my British bretheren on that one!).


The gods also told Magnus that he was _The One_ and was their first-choice to lead the rebellion. Whilst also sucking-up to Horus, via Sarr'kell, claiming that they needed him to destroy the Emperor.

It just seems to be another example of Chaos playing on each Primarch's character traits/flaws.


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