# Are the Ogres A Good Army?



## Brian007 (Aug 8, 2008)

My son wants to start playing Warhammer and he wants me to start as well. I looked over the armies and I like the look of the Ogres but I know nothing about them. 
Are they a good army to play?
What are their highs and lows?
Anything else you want to add would be helpful.

I look forward to my new adventure in warhammer!


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

I don't have any experience myself with them, but I have heard that they are a decent army, but nowhere near competitive in the current edition. Besides that having monstrous infantry as your core can be quite fun.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

They're not terribly good. They're really suseptible to magic, especially to any spell which preys upon poor initiative. Unfortunately for them, two of the three most powerful spells in the games work via initiative tests. So it depends on whether your opponent uses either Lore of Death or Shadow. So in this respect it almost depends on what your son collects, because certain armies will beat the pants off you every time.

With steadfast now running around, you'll really need large units of bulls (minimum 9 strong). This means you'll be almost exclusively playing higher point games, which may be a pain if you want to play with your son as you collect. A single bull is roughly 50pts, so 2x9 strong gives somewhere between 900-1000pts for two units. and that's just core factor in a general, and you've got to be easily playing 1250pts as your minimum size. You're going to have a ridiculously low model count.

That said, a bull charge is devastating, should you get there. Also, if you like the aesthetic of an army then go for it. The problems I've listed here are things that an experienced player will take advantage of; and if you're mostly playing against your son this shouldn't be a problem. Let's face it, your kid's not exactly going to be Sun-Tzu.


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## Brian007 (Aug 8, 2008)

Well that is really disapointing to hear. So why in a game with many different armies are there only a few that are real good? One would think that Games Workshop would try to make all the armies good so more people would play. 

I was hoping that they would be just as good as any other army. 

So what are the "good" armies out there? 

Can someone give me a ranking of all the armies.

This would NOT change my mind but I am just wondering.

Thanks!


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

The reason that there are good armies and bad armies is because of the way that GW updates the army books and core book. 
An army might have been effective in a previous ruleset, but with updated rules they end up with a major flaw, which won't be fixed until they get their own codex updated.
Unfortunately out of all the armies only one third to a half of them get updated within the time frame of the new rules. This means that there are potentially armies that are designed for two core rulebooks ago.
As for which armies are the best usually it just comes down to whichever army has the greatest amount of flexibility in its units, like the empire and high elves.


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## Brian007 (Aug 8, 2008)

So how old is the ogre book? Are they getting a new book any time soon?

What makes them "week"?


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

If you like the concept of loading up on large guys, Skaven with Rat Ogres and Beastmen with Minotaurs should work great for you.


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## Brian007 (Aug 8, 2008)

So are the skaven a good army?
How about the beastmen?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Brian007 said:


> So how old is the ogre book? Are they getting a new book any time soon?
> 
> What makes them "week"?


They've improved from what they were in 7th on the base tactics, but their previous competitive builds no longer work.

In this edition - High Points Cost of basic units, Low Initiative (combined with the new charging rules), new rules for fear, new charging rules (low initiative is a malus, and high movement is no longer the benefit it used to be as any unit can move up to 16" on the charge), weak armour, relatively low toughness, special units near worthless, weak magic defence, pitiful magic offence, easily dispelled spells, army wide stubborn

What's good? Stomp, 3 Supporting Attacks, Rhinox Artillery, and Thundermace, ASF S5 Tyrants with a 4+/4++ Save.


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## Blackhiker (Dec 28, 2007)

Brian007 said:


> So are the skaven a good army?
> How about the beastmen?


As for how good a skaven army is, I have found it to be one of the most versatile armies. you have rat ogres for monstrous infantry, plenty of ranged weaponry, that will usually kill equal numbers of your own troops and the enemy, fast infantry, and some heavy hitters. Their codex is also one of the newer ones, plus with the new steadfast rule their leadership is no longer a major problem.
Overall the skaven are well rounded, but if you go with them you are looking at having usually at least 100+ models even for smaller games.

AS for the beastmen I have no idea.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Brian007 said:


> So are the skaven a good army?
> How about the beastmen?


The skaven are one of the better armies. and since they're in the IoB set they're dead easy to raise an army quickly and cost effectively. However, they are on the other end of the spectrum to ogres- they are a horde army. That means lots of models to paint. Which is fine, so long as you enjoy painting.

I'm not terribly familiar with beastmen, but from what I gather they require a fair amount of skill to play. They can employ some very interesting tactics, such as ambush attacks, which few other armies can do as effectively as them.

Although most fantasy armies are probably more balanced than their 40k counterparts, the 'better' armies as I would put them are as follows-

Daemons, Warriors of Chaos, High Elves, Empire, Lizardmen, Orcs and Goblins (which are being updated in March), and Skaven. Daemons are often quoted as being broken, but in 8th edition I reckon they've been toned down a bit, since you can't spam rare choices. High Elves are stupidly good as well. These armies are generally considered the strongest.

Vampire Counts, Dark Elves and Beastmen are probably more mid-tier. These guys require more skill but are powerful in the right hands nonetheless.

Wood Elves, Ogres, and Tomb Kings are probably lower tier. Although the right build of Tomb Kings can be very powerful, from what I gather.

I'm not really sure where to put Bretonnians. I am tempted to say mid-tier, but I constantly hear Bretonnian players bitching about their outdated army book. They are the only viable cavalry force left, however.

If others think I'm wrong, please comment. I love being proven wrong- that way I learn more.

And you can win with any force, it just requires a little more planning for some than others. Hope this helps.


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## Durzod (Nov 24, 2009)

If you like the look of the Ogres, go for it. 90% of Warhammer is enjoyment, whether it's painting or playing. You don't want to play an army just because it's currently got the reputation of a top tier army. If the army doesn't appeal to you, why invest the time and money? 
You didn't say what army your son is interested in. Depending on what he chose, Ogres might be a good match ( I assume you'll be playing a good percentage of your games with him).


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## blackspine (Jun 9, 2010)

to the OP.
I'm working on a 'how to' and codice for Heresy's community Re: beastmen.

I know there's a few other 'Beastlords" around here, but I'm always available to answer questions.
Easy answer: Beastmen are amazing. We lack many things, but have a hard hitting answer to most problems. It's an army that takes a lot of maneuvering and know how. If you forget a thing or two, your army will unravel and fall before you. Very little margin for error. 

Long answer: more later.


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Durzod said:


> If you like the look of the Ogres, go for it. 90% of Warhammer is enjoyment, whether it's painting or playing. You don't want to play an army just because it's currently got the reputation of a top tier army. If the army doesn't appeal to you, why invest the time and money?
> You didn't say what army your son is interested in. Depending on what he chose, Ogres might be a good match ( I assume you'll be playing a good percentage of your games with him).


Quoted for truth. Remember the number one rule!

If you think ogres are cool, then play them.


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## Gromrir Silverblade (Sep 21, 2010)

coke123 said:


> The skaven are one of the better armies. and since they're in the IoB set they're dead easy to raise an army quickly and cost effectively. However, they are on the other end of the spectrum to ogres- they are a horde army. That means lots of models to paint. Which is fine, so long as you enjoy painting.
> 
> I'm not terribly familiar with beastmen, but from what I gather they require a fair amount of skill to play. They can employ some very interesting tactics, such as ambush attacks, which few other armies can do as effectively as them.
> 
> ...


Missed out the best one there boss man, those resolute stunty bastards. 
I've seen skaven anihalte loads of armies, but equally I've seen them rip themselves apart.

Lizardmen are a rock solied army due to their high toughness, high strength and rolling leadership tests on three dice and picking the best two.

O&G are a little underpowered at the moment but hopefully will get sooped up very soon to match them up.

If you want to win most matches you can go with the ridiculously overpowered high elven army that seems to require little to no skill to use. 

However I would say that in my honest opinion you should pick an army that you like the look of, love the backstory and their mentality. Otherwise you will get bored very fast. I chose my dwarf army for their lore and stubborness, and then discovered how to play them. I think it's easier to learn how to play an army than it is to learn to love them.
:wink:


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## CLT40k (Jun 18, 2010)

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> If you want to win most matches you can go with the ridiculously overpowered high elven army that seems to require little to no skill to use.
> 
> However I would say that in my honest opinion you should pick an army that you like the look of, love the backstory and their mentality. Otherwise you will get bored very fast. I chose my dwarf army for their lore and stubborness, and then discovered how to play them. I think it's easier to learn how to play an army than it is to learn to love them.
> :wink:


You're right and wrong all at the same time... 

To the OP, beware of anyone who says an army requires "little to no skill to use" -- There is some unbalance in the game caused by aged armybooks, but there is no such thing as "point and click"

Also, remember - unless you're going to a tournament, there is nothing wrong with asking your opponent NOT to take one of the lores of magic that would completely hose your Ogres... A good opponent will have NO problem altering thier list so that you have a more "balanced" game....

So no rep for that statement... 

On the rightness that he said... You should pick your armies according to what you fancy. My wife picked out my lizardmen army cause she thought I needed something that looked "cute". I picked up the skaven cause I think they'll be fun to paint. And I've always liked Knights and stuff, so I'm working on a Brettonian list... At the end of the day, the enjoyment of the hobby is more than just the tabletop experiance for most...

+ rep for that bit of clue


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Unfortunately, you cannot change your Magic Lore - while this was mainly so you wouldn't be able to fight a Warriors of Chaos army with Warriors with Metal, and then change to Fire to counter a Warriors of Chaos Troll Army - in a tournament anyway, neither would I whinge to my opponent about asking them to change it. Some armies will suffer against a certain lore, and be resistant against the other (such as before - Trolls have no save against Fire, but Metal can't wound them on account of only have Regen). You take your hits and roll with them.

And knowing that you suffered against certain lores - for example Lore of Death's Purple Sun, an idea I thought was that the Ogres, despite suffering greatly, would recieve the magic item that would make them immune to the effects of the Lore of Light/Life and Death (The Yin Yang which currently works versus High and Dark magic - it's too situational).

Anyway - it's up to you, if you like the models, paint them. If you want to use them, we'll be glad to think of ways in which they could be put to some use, even if they are as poor as Yhetee's.


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## Brian007 (Aug 8, 2008)

Well I have to say that I really like the look of the ogres. Are they getting a new book anytime soon? 

I have been looking and the other army i like the look of is Skaven BUT I really do not want to paint that much! 

I guess playing the ogres would not be to bad even if they are a low ranked army. Maybe a new book would make them way better?


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## coke123 (Sep 4, 2010)

Gromrir Silverblade said:


> Missed out the best one there boss man, those resolute stunty bastards.


Ah, sorry mate! Yeah, dwarves are pretty mean as well. and way less susceptible to magic.



Vaz said:


> Unfortunately, you cannot change your Magic Lore - while this was mainly so you wouldn't be able to fight a Warriors of Chaos army with Warriors with Metal, and then change to Fire to counter a Warriors of Chaos Troll Army.


I think the main point was that he'd only ask them to change it in a friendly game. I certainly would change it if he asked- there's no fun in a game that runs shorter than the time it took to deploy...

We've got to uphold the number one rule!



Brian007 said:


> Well I have to say that I really like the look of the ogres. Are they getting a new book anytime soon?
> 
> I have been looking and the other army i like the look of is Skaven BUT I really do not want to paint that much!
> 
> I guess playing the ogres would not be to bad even if they are a low ranked army. Maybe a new book would make them way better?


People have speculated that Ogres will get a new book soon, but to be honest, this sounds like a load of wishlisting to me. I'd doubt we'll see them in 2011. I'd love to be wrong, because the Ogres really need love (along with Tomb Kings and Bretonnians), but that's how it is. That said, if you only like Ogres, then play Ogres. There is nothing better than playing with an army you're passionate about, and nothing worse than investing hundreds of dollars into something that bores you.


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## Tim/Steve (Jan 25, 2009)

Ogres rock, they are the best army out there... in my opinion 

If you want to dominate every game, and be able to compete in every phase then ogres are not the army for you. They are an incredibly fast army that kills in combat and has the advantage that not that manay people know how to play against them or set their armies up to beat them... the downside is that most people dont need to know how to play them effectively or to set their army up appropriately to beat them.
Ogre magic got nerfed by the new rules and several of the new spells are pretty much inst-gib for your army.... that said, if you play a friend;y bunch of people who wont abuse the appauling vulnerability of ogres to spells like pit of shades and purple sun then they are a great army that win or lose will give a lot of enjoyment.

6 months ago I heard rumours floating around GW and the boards that ogres/TK were the next 2 WFB army books to be released and the order was in doubt... however all mention of ogres seems to have dropped off the face of the planet. Then again, with a few exceptions, a new army book isnt needed- sure purple sun can wipe out a whole unit in a turn with nothing you can do about it whatsoever, gut magic might be laughable easy to dispel and yhettes are now utterly ridiculously useless (whoever thought they could get worse!!) but the rest of the army book is pretty good.


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## neilbatte (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it really depends on what you and your son are hoping to get from the game,
If your learning together then the Ogres learning curve won't be a massive factor and you could always moderate your play and not auto pick one of the two lores that end ogres in a turn as getting whole units taken of the board repeatedly will make for very short interest in any game.
The best thing with ogres is the low painting time required and if your just getting into the hobby then that's a fairly important factor, If your facing against random opponents at your local GW then you'll probably come across a few dicks that will just want to destroy your army in the shortest time possibly for the sense of superiority they get rather than any satisfaction for a hard fought game but just don't play them again and try to find the normal more relaxed gamers to game against.


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## vulcan666 (Jun 19, 2010)

ogres are there for fun really, that and the low level of pianting time needed.
i had just given up on my 40k orks and saw the ogres and instnaly when for them, yes they will die agasint high elves or dwarves but i just dont care, the look on my oppponets face when he learns his 20 poisen attacks fail agaisnt a butcher is priceless or the one time i ran an ogre horde and the whole front got charge by every single vampire count unit over 4 turns and managed to win is amazing.
Play ogres for fun go warriors of chaos or something for winning!


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