# Marines and water



## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Can space marines swim in power armor?

Those suits are a tad heavy.

The fifth edition space wolf codex mentions their assault on an underwater Tau mining facility: the battle of Kvariam Alpha.

Seems to express that power armor can function underwater, but can they swim in it?

Wondering if there are any other mentions or examples.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Well that rather trite piece of fluff seems to say that they don't swim but instead just simply sink to the bottom and fight as they normally (completely ignoring that they would be kicking up all sorts of sand and silt whenever they took a step). We can therefore assume that bolters work underwater as well? How about special weapons? Heavys? 

As somebody who scuba dives that piece of fluff irritates me. A lot. They might possibly be able to use some sort of inflation device to allow them to manipulate their bouancy but even then without fins they won't be moving in a forward direction at anything more than a pace similar to a snail pulling a truck. Short of a full on purpose built pack akin to a jump pack then swimming is out. Full stop. Not going to happen. 

Then again we are talking about a codex that has space marines taking Thunderhawks for joy rides so why I am not surprised.


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## Old Man78 (Nov 3, 2011)

One of the Space Wolf novels has Ragnar Blackmane swimming in power armour cannot remember which. To be honest the amount of shite fluff for space marines is getting a bit much, yeah yeah it is a fantasy world I hear you cry but realism is what makes sci fi appealing, over the top and far fetched I can cope with, but utter nonsense no it ruins the setting in my opinion, boo I say, booooo


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

+ 1 to that. Space Marines in particular are getting worse. One of the reasons why I stopped reading BL books tbh.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Jump Pack units would likely have some form of configuration or specialisation for it.

That, or just "level the playing field" and evaporated the water, but that would be cheating.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

Jacobite said:


> + 1 to that. Space Marines in particular are getting worse. One of the reasons why I stopped reading BL books tbh.


Or why I now focus on the WHFB world ones.

I don't see how a marines suit could make him buoyant enough to float, again I say this as a diver also.

Unless this is suddenly another unknown quality of ceramite lol.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

haha when I was trying to figure this out earlier thats why I decided to ask the forums about is. Because I was like wait....so a space marines weakness is water then? They just sink to the bottom lol. I guess they have all the time they need to walk back out eventually.

There's just so much written about space marines that I think sometimes they are kind of afraid to make a factual call like that and make it official fluff. They dont want to 'prevent' someone from having their fun of pretending space marines can do these types of things without thinking about it. You know, for the kids or whatever.

I definitely agree about the realism making it more appealing, otherwise it all becomes nonsense and unappealing. Since so much of the 40k universe is inherently nonsense, it is a good idea to stick to realism when you can, and I think this is a good example of that. 

I think a large portion of the community tries hard to keep space marines a cool, interesting concept. But there are many instances where they just become whatever the person wants them to be at the moment.


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

I seem to recall that they had to modify the power armour to be better suited to under water conditions, In addition i remember something about SM being able to use their 3rd lung under water, so they technically have a gill like feature.
i would imagine SM could just nuke the whole planet to get rid of all the water if they wanted.
Water and the vaccum of space are pretty similar anyway.

If i recall correctly, many chapters have a strong emphasis on hunting under water, like the space wolves and Iron snakes, both hunting huge creatures that live on their planets under their waters.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The Emperor designed them to be able to fight under _any_ condition and it's clear that this is the case with the amount of worlds (many consisting primarily of oceans) they conquered during the Great Crusade.

We just haven't had writers write about this because its probably somewhat difficult to have action scenes take place underwater without sounding boring.


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## unxpekted22 (Apr 7, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> The Emperor designed them to be able to fight under _any_ condition and it's clear that this is the case with the amount of worlds (many consisting primarily of oceans) they conquered during the Great Crusade.
> 
> We just haven't had writers write about this because its probably somewhat difficult to have action scenes take place underwater without sounding boring.


The big difference between void warfare and submerged warfare is that the marines are weightless in the void, no gravity and all. They have magnetic boots that lock them onto the outside of hulls and platforms. That makes a lot mores sense to me. In water their weight would be a complete burden.

But they_ are_ designed to fight under any condition so I wonder why authors _have_ avoided it. Its a huge potential to design marine naval vehicles and assault units. And there are definitely mentions of ocean worlds in the 40k universe. I think a book covering an underwater war on an ocean world commenced by a space marine chapter would be very interesting, personally. It seems odd this hasn't been touched in depth over the decades 40k has been around and I feel like its because authors know how silly and unbelievable it would be to have marines in power armor fighting underwater with any significant amount of mobility. If they decided on a way the Astartes get this done, it would be nice to know about.

The Laeran world in _Fulgrim_ was mostly ocean.

Unless someone remembers off the top of their head before I can find it, Im going to read the part about Solomon crashing into the ocean. Pretty sure there's no mention of him swimming but I'll double check.

There's also this bit about that campaign:

"Underwater cites were discovered within days of the campaign's opening and detachments of Astartes took the fight to the abyssal darkness of undersea trenches, smashing into structures that had never known the touch of sunlight, in specially modified boarding torpedoes fired from Imperial Cruisers hovering above the sea. Solomon Demeter led his 2nd Company against the first of these cities, subjugating it within six hours, his plan of attack garnering praise from his Primarch"

thats from warhammerwiki. I'll re-read that part too I suppose.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

In the short story Kraken, a sole space wolf fights a huge tyranid monstrosity underwater. Becoming reliant on his third lung when his armor is breached and water pours in.

He defeats it and even survives, but is horribly mauled by the ordeal.


Kraken was added to the recent There is only War omnibus.


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## nevynxxx (Dec 27, 2011)

Bear in mind that power armour has servo motors in it, so the water resistance can be countered to a great extent like that.

By virtue of being void-proof they are water proof (hell, loot at how NASA test space suits and practices weightlessness).

Any weapon that works in space *should* work in water, lasers and energy weapons could be interesting though. Plasma should just evaporate itself a super-heated path through, and flamers use chemicals so don't require an external oxygen source (think thermite).

It would certainly be a different style of combat, but shouldn't be anything like impossible.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Most of the SM fluff has them sinking.
Brotherhood of the snake, main mentions could just walk to unknown primarch statue with his armor but that would break the tradition. The fluff you had said that they sank to the bottom and fight as norm. Soul Drinkers book, 1st, some SM got knocked off a boat and sank, Serp said that if they were lucky they would get crushed otherwise they would either suffocate or starve to death. Fulgrim (HH) Mentioned similar on Lyr (opening planet)


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## Lost&Damned (Mar 25, 2012)

locustgate said:


> Most of the SM fluff has them sinking.
> Brotherhood of the snake, main mentions could just walk to unknown primarch statue with his armor but that would break the tradition. The fluff you had said that they sank to the bottom and fight as norm. Soul Drinkers book, 1st, some SM got knocked off a boat and sank, Serp said that if they were lucky they would get crushed otherwise they would either suffocate or starve to death. Fulgrim (HH) Mentioned similar on Lyr (opening planet)


Seems incorrect, especially the suffocating part, they have a third lung that can use water afterall, hell we have stories of them hunting sea creatures with and without armour without sinking.
probably just another mistake, different authors saying different things


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

I don't see how this is a problem. If they sink what's the big deal they do have teleporters.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Lost&Damned said:


> Seems incorrect, especially the suffocating part, they have a third lung that can use water afterall, hell we have stories of them hunting sea creatures with and without armour without sinking.
> probably just another mistake, different authors saying different things


My knowledge is that the third lung doesn't work forever, it's a stopgap measure that given enough time will stop working, brotherhood it worked for what 12 hrs straight.

There was a thread like this awhile ago, I think it was started by the same piece of fluff, in which someone cited, one of the spec games which stated that Scout armor was light enough to swim in while unmodified SM armor without mods would sink.

Multi-lung
Phase 9: This additional lung activates when a Space Marine needs to breathe in low-oxygen or poisoned atmospheres, and even water. The natural lungs are closed off by a sphincter muscle associated with the multi-lung and the implanted organ takes over breathing operations. It has highly efficient toxin dispersal systems.


But not proof.


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## DestroyerHive (Dec 22, 2009)

The Space Wolves codex describes a story in which they fought the Tau under an ocean (p. 20). Though possibly only landraiders and Terminators actually fought under the water.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Malus Darkblade said:


> We just haven't had writers write about this because its probably somewhat difficult to have action scenes take place underwater without sounding boring.


It's not sounding boring that's the problem but trying to write it so that it technologically makes sense because as this thread is beginning to demonstrate, that's not easy.



Brother Lucian said:


> In the short story Kraken, a sole space wolf fights a huge tyranid monstrosity underwater. Becoming reliant on his third lung when his armor is breached and water pours in.


Depending on the depth in question, if his armor is breached I have to wonder how he survives the pressure.




nevynxxx said:


> Bear in mind that power armour has servo motors in it, so the water resistance can be countered to a great extent like that.


Servo motors in the armor won't help them move forward much as their feet are small compared to their bodies. Why do you think divers wear fins, ducks have webbed feet and fish have membranes in their fins? Under water you don't need power as much as you need surface area to displace the water and push you forwards (or upwards/backwards etc). That's what fins provide. This is even more important when you weigh a tonne. It's either that or you need jets or propellers. 



Reaper45 said:


> I don't see how this is a problem. If they sink what's the big deal they do have teleporters.


It's just TDA that is teleporter capable, not PA. Underwater, especially at depth you also have the issue of pressure fighting against you, you move slower. Teleporters won't help with that.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> It's not sounding boring that's the problem but trying to write it so that it technologically makes sense because as this thread is beginning to demonstrate, that's not easy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about all those times humans and standard marines are teleported?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

They have? I was under the impression that it was just TDA or GK strike squads thanks to their "we have to have something cooler than Jump Packs because Ward wuvs us".


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> They have? I was under the impression that it was just TDA or GK strike squads thanks to their "we have to have something cooler than Jump Packs because Ward wuvs us".


And you're listening to ward?


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

What's that supposed to mean? I'm simply stating that the only time I know of SM's in PA having the ability to teleport is when they are in a GK Strike Squad.


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## khrone forever (Dec 13, 2010)

Their was an occasion where in the soul drinkers land in an ocean, they have to strip off their armour or sink.

Khrone


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

He fights on the sea floor with the kraken, and as his armor is breached, the suit seals off the damaged parts as water rushes into them. And his boltgun functions underwater, each bolt is after all a miniature self propelled missile.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I figure if they have specially adapted armor to fight in the void of space (void-hardened armor) they'd have armor adapted to fight under water or similar materials.


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## emporershand89 (Jun 11, 2010)

Jacobite said:


> + 1 to that. Space Marines in particular are getting worse. One of the reasons why I stopped reading BL books tbh.


For once I agree with you my freind; here here.

That being I have been lead to beleive, through a mix of discussion and reading Lore, that the Power Armor Astartes wear in suppose to be able to operate in any enviroment. Thus I do not find it as wild as some of you that the writers would engage the Marines in an underwater battle in their Power Armor.

They may not swim, but who needs to when you can just sink and shoot right?


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Jacobite said:


> What's that supposed to mean? I'm simply stating that the only time I know of SM's in PA having the ability to teleport is when they are in a GK Strike Squad.


Are we forgetting that ships are equipped with teleporters? that's only requirement is a homing beacon? 

The interceptor squads jump pack is different.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I am aware that the Interceptor Squad (sorry I thought it was a Strike Squad my bad) is different but it was the only example that I knew off of PA marines being able to use a form of teleportation. I was under the impression that it was only TDA that could make use of those Teleportatian Rooms on Ships.. Quickly looking through Lexicanum seems to suggest so, I could be wrong though.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> I am aware that the Interceptor Squad (sorry I thought it was a Strike Squad my bad) is different but it was the only example that I knew off of PA marines being able to use a form of teleportation. I was under the impression that it was only TDA that could make use of those Teleportatian Rooms on Ships.. Quickly looking through Lexicanum seems to suggest so, I could be wrong though.


They were able to do it in Fire Warrior game/book and ad mech tech guards could....with one mixed results, he learned what it felt to be a wall. in Soul Drinkers.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Fair enough I haven't read the Soul Drinkers series so I was unaware of that. Re Fire Warrior, do we really want to count video games as examples of "Fluff" tech (honest question btw)? Then we start getting into why a SM captain would choose to only be equipped with a knife and bolt pistol etc


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> captain would choose to only be equipped with a knife and bolt pistol etc


To say 'I killed that big mother [email protected]#@ER over there with a knife and a pistol'

Why else does anyone use a knife and pistol.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

We see PA marines teleport in "Crimson Fists" when they board the Iron Warrior's flagship.

The Ultramarines launch a teleport assault onto an orbital shipyard in _Know no Fear_.

In "Call of the Lion", the power armored commander of the Dark Angels detachment teleports.

_Fallen Angels_ has a powered armored group of space marines teleport.

We see the power armored Custodes teleport back up to the _Fidelitas Rex_ in _The First Heretic_. Later on, one of those Custodes expects to teleport up to a vessel in orbit but is jammed (point being he _expected_ to teleport up). 

"The Iron Within" has power armored marines teleporting.

Meros, a Blood Angel, teleports with Sangy in _Fear to Tread_.

In _Angel Exterminatus_ we have the Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children using teleporters with power armor.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

I stand corrected, apologies all I must have got confused between TT rules and fluff. So they could teleport down there and then teleport back up, still doesn't help them at anything more than getting into a static firing position.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Jacobite said:


> I stand corrected, apologies all I must have got confused between TT rules and fluff.


TT and our understanding of the universe (like physics and chemistry) don't always jive with the fluff.

One of the dangers of not reading the fluff .


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Oh I fully admit I'm not as brushed up on the Fluff as I used to be seeing as all those novels are fairly recent in terms of my time in the Hobby, that might also be part of the problem, possibly it used to be TDA only?


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't know. I haven't been around fluff that long (maybe the last 7 years?) and it's always made sense to me that anyone could use the teleportation system. Maybe that's the Trekker in me speaking.

But I mean there's nothing particularly special about terminators, no? I mean they have the homing beacon to make sure they're less likely to scatter into some nearby rock, but...

We've seen other things teleported in fluff. Bombs and regular humans, too. I'm not sure why power armored marines would not be included?


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

I read on warhammer wiki that because TDA is so strong that it can withstand high pressures of warp teleportation, so maybe normal PA is not strong enough to not crush under pressure? Now that raises a question why land raiders are not being teleported but dropshiped by a thunderhawk...


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Presumably they are too big to fit in the chamber? (nothing dirty about that statement what so ever).


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Dunno i would doubt it those star ships are stc based i presume. So strategical positions like teleportarium would have big halls big enough for terminators to pass. Orks always teleport their whole armies.


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## Jacobite (Jan 26, 2007)

Land raiders are smidge bigger than a Terminator though.


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## Stormxlr (Sep 11, 2013)

Ye i just added that if you look at orks they can teleport their whole armies from planets and ships. So i dont see how Elite forces of Adeptus Astrates cant do it.


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## Brother Lucian (Apr 22, 2011)

Maybe this should be spun off in a new thread as it have entirely derailed from the OT.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Stormxlr said:


> I read on warhammer wiki that because TDA is so strong that it can withstand high pressures of warp teleportation, so maybe normal PA is not strong enough to not crush under pressure? Now that raises a question why land raiders are not being teleported but dropshiped by a thunderhawk...


I don't think there's "high pressure" going on. It's basically a quick trip through the warp with a bubble of reality surrounding you. Regular humans can be teleported.

I'm guessing Land Raiders just eat too much juice to teleport. We've seen times where they've had to recharge the teleporters. Or there wasn't enough power to get a second wave.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> I don't think there's "high pressure" going on. It's basically a quick trip through the warp with a bubble of reality surrounding you. Regular humans can be teleported.
> 
> I'm guessing Land Raiders just eat too much juice to teleport. We've seen times where they've had to recharge the teleporters. Or there wasn't enough power to get a second wave.


Yet they have in the fluff several times. 

The entire only speesh marines can teleport thing is a ward innovation. Which means it's to be ignored through and through.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Yet they have in the fluff several times.


When have Land Raiders been teleported?

And non-Space Marines can be teleported, too...


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

hailene said:


> When have Land Raiders been teleported?
> 
> And non-Space Marines can be teleported, too...


Sorry I though you wrote can't.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I can't recall a 40k story wherein vehicles are teleported, but I won't state for a fact that one doesn't exist. That having been said, I think if that was meant to be a valid concept, we'd have seen it done more. Why would vehicles not work? Well, if I had to guess, I'd say because it comes down to the teleporters using the Warp as the medium of travel... and thus a living being is key. So how do power armour and cybernetics make it through the trip? I suspect because of the fact that they are integrally linked to the wearer - via the Black Carapace, neural pathways, etc. In that sense, it's kind of a "back-door" to cheating and getting non-organic stuff accomplishing the process.

Yeah, yeah, I know this theory ignores the fact that spaceships are able to go through the Warp at will. I don't know, maybe there's special magic involved with the Warp drives and Geller fields that enables this. 

Where non-Terminator individuals are concerned, though, I can cite a Ravenor novel and a Soul Drinkers novel are successfully teleported right off the top of my head.

The latter is not surprising: the Adeptus Mechanicus being able to teleport their warriors makes sense. The process is suitably arcane, though this might be precisely because it is being accomplished on a Mechanicus ship.

The former, though, is a revelation in that it depicts an unarmored, unaugmented human being teleported _from_ the surface of a planet... and while in a very volatile situation: falling down a vent while a plasma flare erupts. In addition, the operator is able to discern individual bio-signals from orbit when trying to establish a lock-on.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> I won't state for a fact that one doesn't exist.


The closest thing I can put a finger on is that energy expenditure seems to be related to either the quantity of people sent or the mass of the objects sent.

_Know no Fear_ mentions sending a kill team of 50 Space Marines (well, 49+Guilliman) is a "vast energy expenditure". The Ultramarines hope to send a second kill team _if_ power lasts--and we're talking about the teleporters of the Ultramarine flagship! Those things are probably super charged and massive.

I'm guessing teleporting costs a butt-ton of energy. A marine probably weighs, with gear, somewhere around half a ton to maybe a ton. A single land raider weighs close to, what, 250 tons? If the teleporters of a Legion Flagship can only teleport 50 marines (granted not in the best of circumstances), perhaps a Land Raider is outside the scope of a normal vessel? 

It may be a coincidence, but in _Legion_, the Alpha Legion teleport fifty of their number down to the surface to meet (take hostage?) the Cabal.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Hailene, that sounds like solid theory. Consider yourself the recipient of some reputation! 

... *EDIT:* I say that right before the forum says I *can't* do give you rep. I'm sorry!


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Phoebus said:


> I say that right before the forum says I can't do give you rep. I'm sorry!


It's okay. I tried to rep you in the The Horus Heresy as a Failure of Leadersip/Parenting thread, but I couldn't do it there either .


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## SKITTLESKITTEN (Feb 12, 2008)

Space marine power armor would definitely sink in water, they could probably swim, but they would be sinking at the same time. Fighting while on the bottom of the ocean would be funny to watch, but ya I'm sure with the right technology they could develop some sort of jet-pack like thing to help them fight under water.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Actually according to historical sources, (look it up yourselves) Swimming in armour is possible. It's only for movies that you are dead if you fall in water while wearing armour.


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

Reaper can you link a source I can read into that please?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> Actually according to historical sources, (look it up yourselves) Swimming in armour is possible. It's only for movies that you are dead if you fall in water while wearing armour.



Yeah it is possible but it's exhausting. It's like swimming in clothes that weighs 40lbs. Space Marine armor weighs near 1 ton or more. 





Traditional Samurai swimming. 33)


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> Reaper can you link a source I can read into that please?


I don't have the link on me ATM. Looking for it.



locustgate said:


> Yeah it is possible but it's exhausting. It's like swimming in clothes that weighs 40lbs. Space Marine armor weighs near 1 ton or more.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLcT5J7yg9k
> Traditional Samurai swimming. 33)


So I guess a super soldier wearing power armour wouldn't have any problems then would they?


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> So I guess a super soldier wearing power armour wouldn't have any problems then would they?


The problem is them floating. Wearing the power armor is like wearing a car and cars usually don't float, I know go-carts certainly as hell don't .. Metal tends to be less buoyant than other materials, i.e. wood, fat, air, etc
Try dropping a piece of metal and a piece of wood into water.

That being said I imagine plague marines would have a far easier time floating than a normal marine do to all the built up gas. 

There's some old stories, don't remember if true, about people in heavy armor drowning.

A: One of the crusader kings drowned after finally finding water, he jumped into the ocean without taking his armor off and drowned before his soldiers could reach him.

B: Roman marines during the early years tended to have a extremely high mortality rate, compared to other marines, do to them wearing standard armor, till some CO came up with the brilliant idea of giving their marines a stripped down version.

EDIT: I would imagine a space marine could swim in scout armor like it was normal clothes, but that's been established.

EDIT2: Found Story A

On 10 June 1190, Emperor Frederick drowned in the Saleph river.[68] He had decided to walk his horse through the river instead of crossing the bridge that had been too crowded with troops. The current was too strong for the horse to handle, and his suit armour was too heavy for him to swim in: both were swept away and drowned. Some historians believe he may have had a heart attack that complicated matters. Some of Frederick's men put him in a barrel of vinegar to preserve his body.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

locustgate said:


> The problem is them floating. Wearing the power armor is like wearing a car and cars usually don't float, I know go-carts certainly as hell don't .. Metal tends to be less buoyant than other materials, i.e. wood, fat, air, etc
> Try dropping a piece of metal and a piece of wood into water.
> 
> That being said I imagine plague marines would have a far easier time floating than a normal marine do to all the built up gas.
> ...


 I can tell you got that first part directly from age of empires.

The information from that period is sketchy we get stories like that without good details, anyone who took the time to practice would be able to compensate for the extra weight.

Space marines are wearing power assisted armour that acts as a second skin. They have the strength stamina so that they can swim.


I think the problem is that people are thinking of what would happen if you had a 50# block of steel tied to you. When it's shaped into armour it's different.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

Reaper45 said:


> stuff
> 
> stuff sink


Your half right I heard it first on AoE2 and found it on wikipedia.

Like I said the problem isn't them swimming it's them floating. It still weighs alot. You can swim all you like but if you can't stay above water you still are going to sink. Have you ever tried to swim in shoes, they aren't exactly the best things to kick with in water. Swimming isn't just about stamina and brute strength you can have both but if you can't displace enough water you won't go anywhere.

IF the marines had something that could help them float and they had modified their feet with flippers then maybe, actually I think someone said this earlier. SM aren't the best things to float, their armor is 'skin tight' so little to no excess air they are mostly muscle which isn't that buoyant.


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## Kaminsky (Oct 22, 2011)

Space marine armour can surely remain functionnal underwater, and the bolter too (in Vulkan Lives for instance, some Salamanders fire on their ennemies while being underwater in some kind of sewer), but I don't think they're stupid enough to actually stay in water to fight a whole battle. They'd sink, and even if they could move around and shoot it would be painfully slow, and restricted to the bottom of the sea/lake/whatever. But their oxygen would be limited, and a single breach in the armour would be the end of them, or at least the end of their combat efficiency. Logically, some kind of equipement must have been produced to help them move around in water, but only in order to help them reach their target and not to have them fight the whole thing underwater. 

OP talks about a battle during which space marines attack a Tau underwater base, but that doesn't mean that the whole battle was fought submerged. I think they were dropped on the Tau base, ready to blow their way in or scale the walls to find an entry point (and with magnetic boots, you don't really need to swim).


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## Chaplain-Grimaldus (Aug 4, 2013)

I think the issue isn't "can they operate under water" but " can they swim"


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## Kaminsky (Oct 22, 2011)

Chaplain-Grimaldus said:


> I think the issue isn't "can they operate under water" but " can they swim"


As I said, I think they'd be stuck to the bottom of the sea; but to expatiate on the subject, even if they have a great natural strenght doubled by the power armour I don't think they would be able to swim around without some special equipment. Power armour restrict their movements, and if that isn't an issue on ground it becomes quite a problem in water. Just try to imagine them doing the breaststroke... Not easy, eh? And I'm sure they wouldn't be able to crawl, first because they can't float, and second because of movement restriction. And don't even mention dog paddling or doing the backstroke! 

So I think that the problem is about movements, not power.


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