# Blood Ravens fluff in Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising and Retribution - realistic?



## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

I'm specifically referring to how the Chapter is treated after the final episode. Despite large numbers of their ranks corrupted by Chaos - to include their own Chapter Master - the Blood Ravens are allowed to continue to exist.

I know there are precedents of other Chapters turning on the Imperium and being allowed to survive - the Badab War, for instance. But those were Chapters who did not join with Chaos.

What do you think? Would being investigated and subsequently being forced to undertake a crusade of penance be sufficient for the Blood Ravens or a Chapter in a similar situation?


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## Protoss119 (Aug 8, 2010)

I would not be surprised if that is exactly what happened to them. Judging from Kaurava and the losses taken in all the Dawn of War II campaigns (difficulty settings aside), and then the resultant "dark work" alluded to by Gabriel Angelos, the Blood Ravens, though pure, must have been absolutely brutalized. They were already paid a visit by the Inquisition at the end of Dark Crusade, so the events of Chaos Rising and Retribution must have been the final nail in the coffin.

A crusade of penance might be in order, but I doubt the Blood Ravens will survive.


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## Phoebus (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the response.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

It was so damn obvious Kyras or w/e his name was turned to Chaos if you just looked at him lol.

But the Inquisition in the game were so dumb. After finding out the BR Chapter Master planned to use their plan to go exterminatus mode on like ten planets to achieve daemonhood, they still wanted to go through with it.

I disliked how readily the BR wanted to slaughter the Eldar wherever they found them, not once wondering what it was exactly they were up to on the various planets they encountered them on. 

Even with dying Eldar psykers giving them some idea of what they were trying to stop, the BR just shrugged and continued on their merry way.

And the whole "I'll join Chaos while secretly being on Team Emperor only to help you guys out. lol I'm not really going to turn to chaos guys don't worry" routine gets old fast.


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## Barnster (Feb 11, 2010)

I'd say that was just because diomides is a bit of an idiot, the blood ravens have a strange relationship with the eldar afterall

The blood ravens turn up on Graia so their still around, the worry is that they were meant to be dangerously understrength after tartarus


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> I disliked how readily the BR wanted to slaughter the Eldar wherever they found them, not once wondering what it was exactly they were up to on the various planets they encountered them on.
> 
> Even with dying Eldar psykers giving them some idea of what they were trying to stop, the BR just shrugged and continued on their merry way.


Suffer not the alien to live.

Besides, why on earth would you trust the words of a race known to freely manipulate other races to do their bidding? Amongst the last races I'd trust, would be the duplicitous and enigmatic Eldar.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Yeah I know the SM are all xenophobic and all but several chapters are not subject to blind xenophobia in which questions are never asked.

They are manipulative true but there are plenty of occasions in which they are clearly trying to suppress a greater evil.

Bleh.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

The corruption occurred for the most part in the Chapters Honor Guard, the rest of the Chapter was more or less just following orders. So when Kyras was killed, and the Aurelian Crusade started, it was more or less purging Kyras inner circle. 

And of course Angelos has friends in the Inquisition.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Doelago said:


> The corruption occurred for the most part in the Chapters Honor Guard, the rest of the Chapter was more or less just following orders. So when Kyras was killed, and the Aurelian Crusade started, it was more or less purging Kyras inner circle.
> 
> And of course Angelos has friends in the Inquisition.


yes cauze Angelos is a baddass motherfucker that accidently set free a pretty dangerous demon? I wonder if it was actualy Ulkair?


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

The more they write about Blood Ravens the more they mess them up, an experienced black library writer really needs to get their hands on them to give them some sense of direction because they are all over the place. They don't necessarily need to retcon them but maybe give an omnipresent look at them where bits and pieces can be corrected. I've not read about the Soul Drinkers yet but the Blood Ravens make them look like Ultramarines, in terms of purity from what I've heard.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Yeah I know the SM are all xenophobic and all but several chapters are not subject to blind xenophobia in which questions are never asked.


Its not just space marines, but the entire Imperium follows through with the best alien is a dead one. In addition to knowledge being a very dangerous thing, and the vast majority of the galaxy spanning human empire living in complete and utter ignorance or versions of fantasy (created by those who do know, and know that it is better for the masses to not.)



Malus Darkblade said:


> They are manipulative true but there are plenty of occasions in which they are clearly trying to suppress a greater evil.


The times when the Eldar are honest or work for the betterment of man are far and few between at best. And those times, helping man is more a fluke than anything else, because in every case the Eldar will benefit, and thats all that matters to them.

As hailene said, the Eldar are manipulative and in the last ten thousand years history of the Imperium has them doing far more harm to man than good.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Words_of_Truth said:


> I've not read about the Soul Drinkers yet but the Blood Ravens make them look like Ultramarines, in terms of purity from what I've heard.


What, just because they occasionally sympathize with xenos, have been known to let the odd deamon loose, frequently come into conflict with other Imperial factions, have a history of marines falling to chaos, have a secret stash of alien weaponry and have at least one battle brother who is hiding mutations? Bah, I think you're over-reacting.:grin:


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## cegorach (Nov 29, 2010)

Personally I would not be at all sad if the blood ravens were expunged from all fluff. 
The games are always horribly unbalenced in favor of the space marines. Eldar in particular were made to be the most stupid people i have ever seen. 

But the problem is that if you look on gaming forums, like the space marine game forum, there seems to me to be an entirely new breed of blood raven (and in turn space marine) lovers .... basically about another twenty thousand matt wards out there. Who thinks Blood ravens can kill everyone and everything all at the same time. 

So no matter what you think ... Blood Ravens will never die ... and will never be balenced.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

cegorach said:


> The games are always horribly unbalenced in favor of the space marines.


Wait, what the friggen fuck?`


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## MontytheMighty (Jul 21, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> Yeah I know the SM are all xenophobic and all but several chapters are not subject to blind xenophobia in which questions are never asked.evil.


as an Imperial, a BR wouldn't assume that whatever an Eldar says is true...however, as a member of a very cerebral chapter, a BR wouldn't totally ignore it either

sure, many chapters would've just kept killing the Eldar, I think the BR should've been one of the few to stop and think


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Example of an upstanding chapter not blindly killing Eldar is in the latest codex when the Crimson Fists are confronted by them during their eradication of the Orcs.


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## JelloSea (Apr 12, 2011)

Fluff wise a space marine should dominate an eldar. So I wouldnt call the SM/Blood Ravens OP.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Depends what fluff you go by..


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## Bionic-Weasel (Jul 10, 2010)

Malus Darkblade said:


> But the Inquisition in the game were so dumb. After finding out the BR Chapter Master planned to use their plan to go exterminatus mode on like ten planets to achieve daemonhood, they still wanted to go through with it.


When did the Inquisition find that out? The only Inquisitor who knew at the time was Adrastia, the order was given by another Inquisitor and in order to rescind the order she'd need evidence. At best she probably could've only slowed the process down in talks, and there's no indication she hadn't already tried that.



Malus Darkblade said:


> I disliked how readily the BR wanted to slaughter the Eldar wherever they found them, not once wondering what it was exactly they were up to on the various planets they encountered them on.
> 
> Even with dying Eldar psykers giving them some idea of what they were trying to stop, the BR just shrugged and continued on their merry way.


The official stance of the Imperium on all aliens species in literally "KILL IT WITH FIRE" and you wonder why the most zealous of the Imperial forces followed this to the letter?



Malus Darkblade said:


> Yeah I know the SM are all xenophobic and all but several chapters are not subject to blind xenophobia in which questions are never asked.


...yes...yes they are.



JelloSea said:


> Fluff wise a space marine should dominate an eldar. So I wouldnt call the SM/Blood Ravens OP.


Until you read the Eldar codex...

Srsly though, I think an Eldar Warhost would decimate a SPHESS MAHREEN chapter (sans Imperial support) in a 1 vs. 1 fight every time.



MontytheMighty said:


> as an Imperial, a BR wouldn't assume that whatever an Eldar says is true...however, as a member of a very cerebral chapter, a BR wouldn't totally ignore it either
> 
> sure, many chapters would've just kept killing the Eldar, I think the BR should've been one of the few to stop and think


What exactly do people here think the Eldar did in the right? Let's examine their DoW2 actions.

-- The Eldar thought it'd be a great idea to cause a WAAAGH!!! on the Blood Ravens own recruiting worlds. Cyrus stated that the BR could use this as a means of combating the Tyranids...if it weren't happening on their own recruiting worlds. The BR literally only had the option of stepping back and allowing the Eldar to wield the Orks as a weapon that would destroy the Hive Fleet and their recruiting worlds or they could desperately try to take on all comers and hope to walk out victorious. Considering that they destroyed an Ork WAAAGH!!!, the Eldar, and the Tyranid Hive Fleet...

Let's review!

Eldar: Herp-Derp

Blood Ravens: Genre Savvy

-- Skipping to Retribution, they were attempting to hide Typhon from the encroaching fleet with their bombs of planetary killy goodness. Pretty good of them right? Stoppin' dat Kyras from ascending, right?

...exceeeept that they only did this with one planet...on the least densely-populated world...that just so happened to coincidentally have a dead Eldar craftworld underneath....

In conclusion: *PURGE THE XENOS!!!!*


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

The Eldar are wielded far to frequently by writers, they've lost any sense of ability imo, they fail at everything and they are constantly butchered by an underwhelming force.


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

So the BRs get sent on a crusade of penance, they find the Thousand Sons homeworld in the Eye, 

find out that they're from the same gene-stock,
join them, thus giving the Thousand Sons the numbers they need to be a real force again. This finally proves once and for all that the BRs are traitors and not just stupid. 

This would at least put them into a better light that wouldn't make them look blind and dumb when they made a guy their Chapter Master who'd been stuck in the warp for who knows how long.


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## Reaper45 (Jun 21, 2011)

SoulGazer said:


> So the BRs get sent on a crusade of penance, they find the Thousand Sons homeworld in the Eye,
> 
> find out that they're from the same gene-stock,
> join them, thus giving the Thousand Sons the numbers they need to be a real force again. This finally proves once and for all that the BRs are traitors and not just stupid.
> ...


They are more believeable than Draigo or Justicar Thrawn. Those two are official GK's.


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