# 40k iPhone Application



## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

​ 
http://www.i40k-iphone.com/



> Hello! Welcome to the website for i40k, the probability calculator for the popular tabletop wargame, Warhammer 40,000.
> Just enter the relevant statistics and the app does the rest - showing you ‘Average Wounds’. Advanced mode includes things like re-rolls, Rending and Feel No Pain.


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## gwmaniac (Sep 1, 2008)

No way!!! That is crazy!! I might just buy an i-phone just for that! Thanks for the find Jez!


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Thank Tabletop Gaming News 

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/


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## WoRLoKKeD (Apr 1, 2008)

And a million Mathshammer haters cried out at once...And were then silenced.

Although a dice roller program would be nice for portable stuff, especially for Shadowrun. (30+ dice pools aren't uncommon...They WILL make you cry)


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## Jezlad (Oct 14, 2006)

Ok guys, i've just found out the guy that created this App is selling it for $6.


From now on creator you'll be known as *"Profiteering Wanker".*


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

Sadly I have to recoup development costs somehow... if you think I'm going to be swimming in a Scrooge McDuck money bin from this app, think again. If I was clever I'd have spent the time doing something far more lucrative!


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## Dirge Eterna (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, given the number of iNerds who are fanatics for A: cool tech and B: Warhammer, I'd say you could enter Bond villain levels of money.

-Dirge


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## The Wraithlord (Jan 1, 2007)

Cost aside, that is just fucking awesome!!


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Don't suppose there's, say, a flash or java based version that'll work on a PC?
Put it on a web page with a shitton of ads on it.


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Don't suppose there's, say, a flash or java based version that'll work on a PC?
> Put it on a web page with a shitton of ads on it.


Yes, I too would like a flash or java based program that does not require me to pump money into an irrelevant company. If you find this program, add it into the army list section.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

Steel Rain said:


> Yes, I too would like a flash or java based program that does not require me to pump money into an irrelevant company. If you find this program, add it into the army list section.


I am not an irrelevant company!


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## Necrosis (Nov 1, 2008)

Anyone knows how much this cost? Cause I couldn't find it in the link.


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

nicklocking said:


> I am not an irrelevant company!


Then why should we pay $6 on top of the extortion of the I-Phone.

I could, albeit, with a bit of work, create a Table on Microsoft Excel, using the drop down columns and basic doo-dahs.

I could create one, if I have the time. And I wouldn't charge. Why? Because it's not community spirited. Which I thought that Games Workshop game systems were intended for, or intended to create, in any case. Which it has here.

And although you've admittedly not created it for this Site, and you've undoutably done a nice job, you're charging people £3 for you to have created a piece of software, that cross references 3-4 tables? Nice one.

necrosis, Jez posted the price earlier on.


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

I bought it a few days ago on my iPhone Its amazing. Its 5.99 if anyon would like to see it work i can make a quick vid and display how it works. I use it in games and its much easier then dice. Its kind of sketchy so I would not suggest using it for tourneys but for just kick arounds its pretty cool.

Chaosftw


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

nicklocking said:


> I am not an irrelevant company!


I think he meant Apple

So, any chance of a web-based version?

Necrosis: Jez said it's going for $6

Let's not trash the guy for charging for his work. I'm sure if you look hard enough you could find a similar program for free online. It's a pretty simple set of forumlae

Edit: For example, here's one someone whipped up for free. Pretty basic, but it works. Mathammer.exe (Links directly to .exe file, I've already scanned it and run it on my machine, it seems clean)

Hell, he even opened up the source for anyone wanting to modify it Mathammer source

But, of course, that's not on your phone,and it's very basic, shooting only... though you could pretty easily work out an 'equivalent BS' by comparing the WS of your target and attacker, figuring out the to-hit and converting that into a BS. For example, 5+ to hit in CC equates to BS 2, 4+ is BS 3, 3+ is BS 4, and just enter in that number. Chainfists count as melta, power weapons are AP2


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

Galahad, you know me too well.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

Vaz said:


> Then why should we pay $6 on top of the extortion of the I-Phone.


The iPhone really doesn't quality as extortion. It's a high-end handset that works out at a price easily commensurate with similar handsets from other manufacturers, with a much higher design and build quality.



> I could create one, if I have the time. And I wouldn't charge. Why? Because it's not community spirited. Which I thought that Games Workshop game systems were intended for, or intended to create, in any case. Which it has here.


That's an interesting repetition of the Games Workshop party line, but please be aware that Games Workshop itself is dedicated in large part to making profit. Also - this is my job. I am a freelance developer, and I work on projects like this and try and make enough money to get by on. I note that Heresy Online, BOLS, all the big sites, are rife with advertising - are they not being community spirited? What about gaming clubs that charge for entry? You may say they're just trying to break even - well, so am I! You might as well say that independent retailers should just give away Land Raiders in the spirit of a healthy community! The time I invested on this project, I need to recoup somehow, and going by my meagre sales so far, I will be lucky to come close. If I was really into making money at all costs I'd have worked on something else, something far more lucrative. But I, like everyone else around here, really dig 40k so I tried to develop something related to it.



> And although you've admittedly not created it for this Site, and you've undoutably done a nice job, you're charging people £3 for you to have created a piece of software, that cross references 3-4 tables? Nice one.


There is... a LOT more to it than that. At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to buy the app, and £3 is a tiny amount of money. Lots of people are perfectly comfortable with the price - someone elsewhere said hey, it's about half the price of a metal figure.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Let's not trash the guy for charging for his work. I'm sure if you look hard enough you could find a similar program for free online. It's a pretty simple set of forumlae


In the interests of bigging myself up, I feel forced to mention that the exe you mentioned doesn't cover a lot of things my app does, like re-rolls and rending. And as regards the simplicity - yeah, at its heart, if you just plug in some basic figures, yes the formulae is largely simple. I'm no super-maths-genius and I had to teach myself a lot of stuff to work out the probabilities involved in the app, but once Rending comes into play the maths gets pretty tricksy. Frankly, if all the app did was take BS, S, T and Save, I wouldn't get it either, because that stuff you CAN do in your head. The re-rolls and complex rules are what makes it useful - and the stats view that shows the relative probabilities of various outcomes. No WAY you're working out binomial coefficients in your head, unless you're Rain Man. 

I'm currently adding in Close Combat to the app, which I'll release within a week or so as a free update for the app - as soon as I've worked out the maths on Master Crafted Weapons!


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Check back up, I edited my post, found a free little open-source exe for anyone wanting some instant-mathammer on their PC, or anyone wanting to use it as the basis for their own iphone or web app, so et's drop the quibbling about price. Anyone who doesn't want to give the man $6 can just use the exe I linked, and they can even jimmy it up like I mentioned for handling CC.

If you think you can do better, well it's open source, so go ahead. In fact, I'm sure me and Jez can put our heads together and come up with a suitable way of thanking anyone who does, in fact, create a lovely web-based mathammer program for Heresy.



nicklocking said:


> In the interests of bigging myself up, I feel forced to mention that the exe you mentioned doesn't cover a lot of things my app does, like re-rolls and rending. And as regards the simplicity - yeah, at its heart, if you just plug in some basic figures, yes the formulae is largely simple. I'm no super-maths-genius and I had to teach myself a lot of stuff to work out the probabilities involved in the app, but once Rending comes into play the maths gets pretty tricksy. Frankly, if all the app did was take BS, S, T and Save, I wouldn't get it either, because that stuff you CAN do in your head. The re-rolls and complex rules are what makes it useful - and the stats view that shows the relative probabilities of various outcomes. No WAY you're working out binomial coefficients in your head, unless you're Rain Man.
> 
> I'm currently adding in Close Combat to the app, which I'll release within a week or so as a free update for the app - as soon as I've worked out the maths on Master Crafted Weapons!


Since the exe I linked is open source, I'm sure it won't be too hard for someone to come up with the couple of extra lines it would take to simply reroll wounds (One would think you just copy the same thing that rerolls hits for twin-linked)

Coming up with Rending and MC-CCWs is a bit more tricky, but still not terribly hard in the long run for someone with good math and programming skills.

I'm not trying to downplay your skills, I'm just saying that if anyone else wants to try their hand at it there's a good starting point.

So, any plans to release your version for PC or web-based?
I haven't got a cell phone, let alone an iphone, so no matter how fantastical your version is, I'm not apt to use it anytime soon unless you meet me halfway.

Give us an exclusive web-app version of your program and I'll talk to Jez about giving you some free adspace for your pay version. 
"Want the Heresy Mathammer on your iphone? Click here!"


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## squeek (Jun 8, 2008)

Personally if I was a freelance programme developer and spent the time to make an app. for an iphone, I would want something back from it too. Yeah there are free versions that aren't as comprehensive, or there is the tried and tested combo of brain, pen and paper, but how many people pay for Army Builder when excel is free with a little effort?

Considering it is 3 quid I don't see that as particularly extortionate. If you compare it to this app. it is pretty good value!


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## Steel Rain (Jan 14, 2008)

squeek said:


> Personally if I was a freelance programme developer and spent the time to make an app. for an iphone, I would want something back from it too. Yeah there are free versions that aren't as comprehensive, or there is the tried and tested combo of brain, pen and paper, but how many people pay for Army Builder when excel is free *with a little effort?*
> 
> Considering it is 3 quid I don't see that as particularly extortionate. If you compare it to this app. it is pretty good value!


I've bolded the important part. Effort. Laziness would be for the win, if I wasn't so lazy.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Can I point out that we pay 12-25 dollars for a little pewter minis and 40-50 bucks on tanks..... Simply put if you do not like the 6 bucks for a neat little program (I have spent more on phone games) then very simply do not post.


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## Marneus Calgar (Dec 5, 2007)

Galahad said:


> Don't suppose there's, say, a flash or java based version that'll work on a PC?
> Put it on a web page with a shitton of ads on it.


Or a version that will work on a regular mobile phone?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> Can I point out that we pay 12-25 dollars for a little pewter minis and 40-50 bucks on tanks..... Simply put if you do not like the 6 bucks for a neat little program (I have spent more on phone games) then very simply do not post.


Not saying you're wrong, but when it costs 6 dollar to use said little application on top of the Pewter Mini's... 

I suppose I'm not lazy, and would create my own. Alternatively, I'd just... you know... Roll a dice.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

Have you thought about developing the proggie for palm piliots or win pocket PCs?


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## Chaosftw (Oct 20, 2008)

Alright so I tried to take some pics of the screens and frankly IMO what this guy did is great. Don't be jealous and take shots at it because someone other then you actually went through and made it.

Here are some of the images.

This is just the app itself on the main screen.









The First one displays the main screen under the "Simple Version"








What you see is a screen that allows you to input the amount of (In this order) Shots, Ballistic skill, Str, Toughness, and the Saving through.

The next few shots will display the "Advanced" option. This allows for other factors.
























These images show (in order) Shots, Ballistic skill, re-roll to hit, Rending, Str, Toughness, Re-Roll to wound, Saving through, Re-Roll save, Inv/Cover save, A bar to indicate what the Cover/ INV save is (4+,5+, etc.), and if FNP is active.










This image shows a Graph that is auto generated after all things considered in the previous page. Basically all the probability of how many getting popped etc.










This one Shows the actual "Roll". It shows how many were hit, how many were wounded, and how many made their saves. It also says on the bottom how many you are removing. AND YES ITS RANDOM. I did hit the "roll" button 12 times and it always changed. Sometimes it was around the same number dead and what not but I mean thats bound to happen. If the Rend button is active it will indicate how many were hit with rending separately, this too is random.

Cheers,

Chaosftw


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks for all your support, fellas.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

djinn24 said:


> Have you thought about developing the proggie for palm piliots or win pocket PCs?


I have - a lot of people have said 'Awesome, but I only have Palm OS/BlackBerry/Windows Mobile'. It's certainly under consideration.


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## Djinn24 (Jan 12, 2008)

I would suggest doing that and releasing it as an email proggie to people who order or a CD Rom or anbother marketable way. I do not and will not won an Iphone but have a Win Pocket PC and I would love to have this, if for anything when I am sitting around bored off my ass.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I still think nick should whip up a PC or web based version.

And I was serious about the offer I made regarding a web version for heresy. PM me if you;re interested.

And to anyone else, I've given you a basic, open-source program that's free. You can use it, you can try to improve upon it. If you do improve upon it, let us know.


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## Eddy (Jan 21, 2009)

Isn't making money from Warhammer illegal?
I thought only games-workshop could sell 40k stuff.


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## JokerGod (Jan 21, 2009)

Eddy said:


> Isn't making money from Warhammer illegal?
> I thought only games-workshop could sell 40k stuff.


Hes not selling anything that is 40K, hes selling a program that dos math, it could be used for 40K, how ever it can also be used for other things aswell.

Also there is no actual IP in the program so GW has no grounds to fight it.


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## magician847 (Jan 4, 2007)

im sure i can find out how, and then make a net based version for you guys, IF and WHEN i find out, which could take some time...

anyways,

its a good idea,
and great handheld,
but:
1) i dont have an iphone
2) i cba to pay for it when i can just roll the dice i allready own...

ah well

M


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

You can do this for $0 using any cell phone with a calculator in like 3 easy steps, check this out.... http://mathhammer.blogspot.com/2009/01/super-simple-method-216.html


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## magician847 (Jan 4, 2007)

that is awesome lol, *goes off to test if it works...*

also though:

surely as dice are random, why you would want to know the average number of kills IDK, considering that this will have no effect on the outcome of the game at all...

M


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## koppo (Oct 29, 2007)

Hmm, I may give this a go using .Net Compact so I can run on my Windows Mobile device. Although don't hold your breath, I don't work as a developer and have not written a line of real code for about 5 years.

If I do get off my arse and do this I _promise_ the UI will not be as polished or as pretty as the iPhone one, but that's the difference between something knocked up by a rank amateur that they give out for free and something created by a professional who should feel entitled to some payback on the hard work and expertise they have put into it.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

magician847 said:


> that is awesome lol, *goes off to test if it works...*
> 
> also though:
> 
> ...


Expectancy is a measure of how things are expected to go.

If I gave you a choice of two games to play,
Game #1 you roll a D6 if you get a 3+ then I give you a $1 or Game #2 you roll a D6 and if you get a 5+ then I give you a $1. Which game would you rather play????

Would you just sit back and say it doesn't matter because dice are random?

Why do terminators cost more than normal space marines? Is it because they are expected to kill more enimies? Why should that matter if dice are random and that doesn't matter?


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

koppo said:


> Hmm, I may give this a go using .Net Compact so I can run on my Windows Mobile device. Although don't hold your breath, I don't work as a developer and have not written a line of real code for about 5 years.
> 
> If I do get off my arse and do this I _promise_ the UI will not be as polished or as pretty as the iPhone one, but that's the difference between something knocked up by a rank amateur that they give out for free and something created by a professional who should feel entitled to some payback on the hard work and expertise they have put into it.


Let me know if you need help I've been writing software in C# for about 9 years now, it's what I do for a living.


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## spidie2000 (Nov 21, 2008)

I have the HTC G1 with the google Android software. all the apps for it are opensource so hopefully somebody makes this for my phone. That is awesome.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

NecronCowboy said:


> You can do this for $0 using any cell phone with a calculator in like 3 easy steps, check this out.... http://mathhammer.blogspot.com/2009/01/super-simple-method-216.html


That covers the Simple Mode of i40k. Rending, re-rolls and so on are a lot more complex.

And to the guy who implied that 'Average Wounds' was a bit meaningless - that's why there's a Stats page that gives you the percentage likelihood of each outcome.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Nick, any chance of you releasing a PC or online version?
Yes or no would be nice.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Nick, any chance of you releasing a PC or online version?
> Yes or no would be nice.


It's uncertain at this point. Online stuff is difficult to monetise. PC stuff is difficult to distribute and develop because coding for Windows sucks. I'm contemplating partnering up with developers for other platforms - all they'd need to do is build a shell for the app and my calculation code could be adapted.


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## Horus6489 (Jan 22, 2009)

Does anyone know how to program an Iphone?
Are there tutorials online?
Can you share programs for free.

A friend who knows a bit about computers might be buying an Iphone (he plays warhammer 40k).


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

nicklocking said:


> PC stuff is difficult to distribute and develop because coding for Windows sucks.


You have got to be kidding me, have you ever in your life even tried to do such a thing? Seriously I think 99% of programmers would laugh in your face if you said that. Coming from someone who has coded for Windows for 10 years and coded for Linux, I don't agree with you one bit.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

NecronCowboy said:


> You have got to be kidding me, have you ever in your life even tried to do such a thing? Seriously I think 99% of programmers would laugh in your face if you said that. Coming from someone who has coded for Windows for 10 years and coded for Linux, I don't agree with you one bit.


Yes, I used to develop applications for Windows but I got out because it was so mind-numbingly tedious. I used ASP.Net for a while but again just loathed it. That plus how rubbish Windows is in general has made me pretty firmly against ever getting involved in a Microsoft language again.

You should try coding for other platforms.


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## NecronCowboy (Jan 8, 2009)

nicklocking said:


> Yes, I used to develop applications for Windows but I got out because it was so mind-numbingly tedious. I used ASP.Net for a while but again just loathed it. That plus how rubbish Windows is in general has made me pretty firmly against ever getting involved in a Microsoft language again.
> 
> You should try coding for other platforms.


I have coded for other platforms, as I just said in my previous post. Just because you have coded in ASP.NET doesn't mean you have coded for windows lol. The C languages are not Microsoft in origin at all, the fact that you say those things makes me think that maybe you aren't a programmer.

Windows and Windows development tools are top notch, and probally the best combination ever created.

Hell I could be wrong, maybe most of the worlds stock exchanges and financial companies are wrong to, but I doubt it. I think someone has been watching too many Mac commercials, because in the real world Windows is the most popular thing around.


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## nicklocking (Jun 21, 2008)

NecronCowboy said:


> I have coded for other platforms, as I just said in my previous post. Just because you have coded in ASP.NET doesn't mean you have coded for windows lol. The C languages are not Microsoft in origin at all, the fact that you say those things makes me think that maybe you aren't a programmer.
> 
> Windows and Windows development tools are top notch, and probally the best combination ever created.
> 
> Hell I could be wrong, maybe most of the worlds stock exchanges and financial companies are wrong to, but I doubt it. I think someone has been watching too many Mac commercials, because in the real world Windows is the most popular thing around.


I was saying I worked in ASP.Net after I coded for Windows. I'm not about to get into a holy war with you about whether I am a programmer or not - get a grip. I really don't care whether Windows or Mac is better. I just know I don't like coding on MS platforms, and I do like coding for Apple and others. I think Visual Studio is a great IDE, and probably the best I've ever used, but I still don't like the underlying technologies in use. I'm certainly not going to argue about whether Windows or Mac is the better system like they were sports teams, it's like getting into an argument with someone about whether Nike or Adidas is better.


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## bon_jovi (Nov 16, 2008)

Is it just me or did the above few posts go over anyone elses heads too?


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## H0RRIDF0RM (Mar 6, 2008)

Kudos to the OP. I own an Iphone and love to add stuff to it. Thanks alot for making my Iphone more fun to have.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Nick, just put the web version on a page with some good adsense ads and a lovely plug/link to your iphone version.

Sure, the majority of people who use it won't click an ad or download the iphone version, but enough will that you'll at least get something out of it. think of it as a big interactive advertisement for the iphone version.


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## Syph (Aug 3, 2008)

Galahad said:


> Nick, just put the web version on a page with some good adsense ads and a lovely plug/link to your iphone version.
> 
> Sure, the majority of people who use it won't click an ad or download the iphone version, but enough will that you'll at least get something out of it. think of it as a big interactive advertisement for the iphone version.


I think this makes a lot of sense, personally.


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