# Guilliman's Guantlets



## Cowlicker16 (Dec 7, 2010)

So looking at the cover of "Know No Fear" it appeared to look like the Guantlets of Ultramar which made me wonder. I've heard that Guilliman recovered the Guantlets of Ultramar from some chaos guy in a fight but when was that? During the heresy or the scouring,because it doesn't seem like he had a lot of time to battle heretics before the battle of Calth. And is there anywhere you can look more into that battle cause it sounds awesome.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 22, 2010)

I thought the same thing, but it states that the gauntlets were reclaimed by Guilliman during the Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre 

So he must of lost them at some point


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## kickboxerdog (Jun 2, 2011)

The Gauntlets of Ultramar are two mighty Power Fists with incorporated Bolters that were reclaimed from a fallen Chaos champion, slain during the Gamalia Reclusiam Massacre by the Primarch of the Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman himself. No one has been able to penetrate the thick adamantine shell of the fists to study the workings inside. While not in use, the Gauntlets are stored within a crystal case at the Fortress of Hera, inside the Temple of Correction's "Shrine of the Great Primarch". In combat, the 'Gauntlets of Ultramar' are worn exclusively by Marneus Calgar, the Chapter Master.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

I'd be more interested in knowing how they were repaired after the Avatar half-melted one of them. I thought that they were super power fists the like of which couldn't be made in the 41st Millenium

Midnight


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

MidnightSun said:


> I'd be more interested in knowing how they were repaired after the Avatar half-melted one of them. I thought that they were super power fists the like of which couldn't be made in the 41st Millenium
> 
> Midnight


Ooooohh owned Ultrasmurfs, take that! Also if one was half melted by the Melta power of the AoK then why not study them then??? Huuhhh???


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

Of course it might be just artistic lisence, but the Power Fists Guilliman is wearing on that cover picture, don't look like the Gauntlets that we see Calgar wearing. It might be that RG wore 'normal' Primarch-strength PFs and the Gauntlets were discovered sometime during the late Heresy/Scouring. 

GFP


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## constantin_valdor (Apr 8, 2011)

so the astartes on the cover is guilliman


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

DO we know though that it is Guilliman for sure on the cover?

I'd be more interested to know why he doesn't have a helmet on when he appears to be in the void of space. The mucranoid gland would only go so far and they still need to breath.


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## Delta1 (Apr 5, 2009)

Rems said:


> DO we know though that it is Guilliman for sure on the cover?
> 
> I'd be more interested to know why he doesn't have a helmet on when he appears to be in the void of space. The mucranoid gland would only go so far and they still need to breath.


i think the reason people think the marine on the cover is RG is because he has no helmet in space. id put my money on him being RG.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I didn't see it, but in the BL sub-forum thread, it was explained that on the BL Facebook page, there was an announcement that said there was a picture of the new book cover _Know No Fear_ with a 'Primarch punching off a Word Bearer's head'. 
As for being helmet-less, well rule-of-cool, if nothing else; if we're arguing reality for 40/30k, I'm not sure we're doing it right (specially when it comes to Primarchs)!
One of the first 3 books (_Eisenstein_, I think) had a picture of a PF-armed Astartes. These early PFs seem to loom a lot different to 40k ones, with there being a cylinder over the forearm and hand, the fingers protruding from under the rim of this cylinder. I mention this because the PFs Guilliman is wearing look the same. This suggests that they aren't the Gauntlets of Ultramar; they also seem to lackk the Bolters, although it isn't beyond reason that these were added later, with only the PF section being special.
In regard to the damage caused by the Avatar. It could be, in the words of Monty Python's Holy Grail, 'it got better!', this being one of the long-lost technologies incorporated into the Gauntlets. Or not.

GFP


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Ooooohh owned Ultrasmurfs, take that! Also if one was half melted by the Melta power of the AoK then why not study them then??? Huuhhh???


Because asking the Ultramarines to allow tests on the one remaining artifact of their Primarch would be like asking a Christian to allow radiocarbon testing on the only known peice of the true cross? (seeing as radiocarbon tests would uhave a very good chance of destroying the sample and the shard is JUST the right size for a test and no bigger)


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Nicholas Hadrian said:


> Because asking the Ultramarines to allow tests on the one remaining artifact of their Primarch would be like asking a Christian to allow radiocarbon testing on the only known peice of the true cross? (seeing as radiocarbon tests would uhave a very good chance of destroying the sample and the shard is JUST the right size for a test and no bigger)


Its already been destroyed .


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## Nicholas Hadrian (Mar 20, 2011)

Warlock in Training said:


> Its already been destroyed .


 
Wow. The conservatives are right, scientists really ARE going out of their way to actively destroy christianity.


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## Daemon Child (Apr 12, 2011)

Roboute guilliman claimed the power fists from the cold dead hands of a dark apostle during the heresy and have remained with them ever since


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> As for being helmet-less, well rule-of-cool, if nothing else; if we're arguing reality for 40/30k, I'm not sure we're doing it right (specially when it comes to Primarchs)!


Actually, rule-of-cool need not apply in this case. If anyone would recall the short story _Labyrinth_ from _Heroes of the Space Marines_ it featured a number of marines venturing into space without any armour on. So my guess is that, yes the mucranoid gland does indeed go that far.

Actually, a quick look at the description of the mucranoid gland, in the creation of a marine, specifically states that it offers a measure of protection in hard vacuum. Its obviously not a great substitute for your helmet, but should the thing be damaged at least your not left blind when it matters most.

When you combine this with the ability for a marine to hold his breath for upwards of fifteen minutes at a time (a feat displayed in Brothers of the Snake) it becomes very possible for a marine, let alone a primarch, to do combat in vacuum. Though I bet it would be safe to assume that they, or at least the marines, did not start the fight without helmets.



Giant Fossil Penguin said:


> One of the first 3 books (_Eisenstein_, I think) had a picture of a PF-armed Astartes.


Fourth in the series, but your point still stands.


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## Giant Fossil Penguin (Apr 11, 2009)

I'd invoked RoC because I'd gone into it more in the BL thread and couldn't be bothered doing so again. But...
Firstly, the Mucranoid, surely, can't pull oxygen out of a vacuum? Unless the Astartes somehow carry the oxygen they need inside their bodies, then they won't last in the void and they can't carry the oxygen inside an unpressurised (read Armoured) body because the pressure differential would be fatal. I was always under the impression that the Mucranoid was to protect the skin against vacuum damage, such as ultra-low tempratures, that would occur in an armour breach.
As to why he's able to not wear a helmet, it could be as easy as there being a hull-breach and the venting atmosphere being held inside the void shields. I also saw someone propose that huge ships will have their own micro-atmosphere, held close through the ship's own gravity; they also have artificial gravity, don't they, which could help? I would also imagine that no hull is completely leak-free.
So, yeah, Rule of Cool need not be invoked, but until the book comes out it might just be easier!

GFP


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## Angel of Blood (Aug 18, 2010)

constantin_valdor said:


> so the astartes on the cover is guilliman





Rems said:


> DO we know though that it is Guilliman for sure on the cover?


Aye, on the Black Libary announcement for Know No Fears cover art beign released they said 

_"All new Horus Heresy cover art!
Get yourself over to the blog now to see a Word Bearer getting punched in the face by a Primarch."_


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

darkreever said:


> When you combine this with the ability for a marine to hold his breath for upwards of fifteen minutes at a time (a feat displayed in Brothers of the Snake) it becomes very possible for a marine, let alone a primarch, to do combat in vacuum.


Yet in Soul Hunter, one of First Claw (Either Cyrion or Xarl) struggles with three minutes in a vacuum (And they're Night Lords, who still have quite a pure gene-seed). Maybe it depends on the Astartes? :dunno:

Midnight


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Daemon Child said:


> Roboute guilliman claimed the power fists from the cold dead hands of a dark apostle during the heresy and have remained with them ever since


Think you might be mixing them up with the powerfist/bolter Zhufor the Impaler wears, he took his off a Dark Apostle. Unless Dark Apostles some how are incompetent and keep losing their special power fists


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Unless Dark Apostles some how are incompetent and keep losing their special power fists


Eliphas managed to lose the Dark Crusade, even with almost the entire Legion at his back. He also has a noticeable lack of his nifty Dark Crusade wargear during Chaos Rising (Note: How the hell do you turn yourself into a Space Marine FROM a Daemon Prince? More importantly, why would you want to?).

I think you may be on to something here...

Midnight


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## Warlock in Training (Jun 10, 2008)

Eliphas had a small amount of renegades with him, nowhere near the Legion in strength. But it does seem Dark Apostles were killed and had weapons pillage over the Millennium.


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

One wonders how to "purify" a Chaos artifact, and how you avoid corruption while doing it. Also, if you can purify a Chaos artifact, why just the Guantlets and not many others besides? The advantages would be incalculable. It's not clear why the Imperium seems unable to do this in M41.


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## Black Steel Feathers (Aug 17, 2011)

randian said:


> One wonders how to "purify" a Chaos artifact, and how you avoid corruption while doing it. Also, if you can purify a Chaos artifact, why just the Guantlets and not many others besides? The advantages would be incalculable. It's not clear why the Imperium seems unable to do this in M41.


Because Chaos artifacts are evil and they make the God-Emperor cry. Then an Inquisitor would shoot you.


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

randian said:


> One wonders how to "purify" a Chaos artifact, and how you avoid corruption while doing it. Also, if you can purify a Chaos artifact, why just the Guantlets and not many others besides? The advantages would be incalculable. It's not clear why the Imperium seems unable to do this in M41.


Same could be asked of the Axe Morkai that Logan Grimnar took from a chaos champion. It kind of amazes me that the chapter masters of two of the most loyal chapters wield weapons taken from fallen chaos champions, and nobody batts an eyelid. Considering Grimnar fought alongside the GKs during the first battle of Armageddon, and surely Calgar has come across them or other Ordo Malleus agents as well, this seems strange, to say the least.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Relictors have gotten away with wielding Daemon weapons for a while now


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Relictors have gotten away with wielding Daemon weapons for a while now


Relictors were declared excommunitatus traitorus and almost destroyed by the GKs. As far as I remember what little remains of them are hiding out in the EoT. Not exactly getting away with it.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

Khorne's Fist said:


> Relictors were declared excommunitatus traitorus and almost destroyed by the GKs. As far as I remember what little remains of them are hiding out in the EoT. Not exactly getting away with it.


They are in the latest SM codex though as still being watched, when did they get excommunicated?


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Khorne's Fist said:


> It kind of amazes me that the chapter masters of two of the most loyal chapters wield weapons taken from fallen chaos champions, and nobody batts an eyelid.


To be fair, it may not be generally known, even among inquisitors, that those weapons were formerly owned by Chaos champions.

It's unclear to me just how warp-tainted those weapons were when captured, and just what prompted the tremendous effort needed to rid them of warp taint. Powerful Chaos weapons are captured all the time, so what made these special? Furthermore, if I could rid weapons of warp taint I'd want to do it to every one I find that isn't otherwise an ordinary weapon. Why stop at the Gauntlets? Where's the Bolter of Ultramar and the Helm of Ultramar and the Armor of Ultramar?


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## Khorne's Fist (Jul 18, 2008)

Words_of_Truth said:


> They are in the latest SM codex though as still being watched, when did they get excommunicated?


I've seen that, but it's just another of GW's oversights. They were named as traitors during the 13th black crusade after it was discovered that they were still dabbling with chaos while on the penitant crusade, all of which was documented _before _the latest SM codex was published. 

It was something that jumped out at me when I read it the first time because after I read the rules for them in WD years ago I've always toyed with starting a force, but I can't face painting more grey marines.:no:

Also, in the novel _Atlas Infernal_, the rogue Inquisitor has as part of his retinue a Relictor tech marine, who is described as working alone to collect chaos artefacts, and that his chapter have scattered into the Eye in small warbands. He goes ape shit when they come across a squad of GKs because of what they did to his chapter.


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## Haskanael (Jul 5, 2011)

Words_of_Truth said:


> Think you might be mixing them up with the powerfist/bolter Zhufor the Impaler wears, he took his off a Dark Apostle. Unless Dark Apostles some how are incompetent and keep losing their special power fists


quote from the old Marine Codex "The Gauntlets of Ultramar: amongst the most revered of the Ultramarines Relics, are the gauntlets of ultramar, ancient artifacts taken back from a fell champion of the ruinous powers slain by roboute guilliman after the gamalia reclusiam massacre."


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## jaysen (Jul 7, 2011)

Why can't the cover just be an Ultramarines sergeant or captain wearing two powerfists? They don't looke like the gauntlets of ultramar.


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## Words_of_Truth (Sep 20, 2007)

It was said in the blog you see a Primarch punching a marines head off.


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