# My old Empire army ... what's still good?



## lange72 (Jan 24, 2011)

My friend picked up the new edition of Warhammer, and gave me a reason to pull out my old Empire army. I haven't played for many years (since 3rd Ed) and wanted the opinion of current players as to what I have. What's still good, and what do I need to add to make a decently-playable army. I will be getting the most recent Empire army book early in the new year but wanted opinions as to how I may plan my purchases for the next 6 months or so. 

Doesn't need to be competitive but I would like them to be playable with a reasonable chance of a win under the new rules.

Here's what I have currently:

-4 metal Elector Counts. These guys were the old Elector Counts box set, each with a runefang. I'm sure in current rules they'll be generals / heroes.

-various heroes / leaders on foot. Included in these are a wichhunter duo (I only remember the name of one as Johann); one was a wichhunter with a brace of pistols and the other a priest of Sigmar. I don't suppose the current Empire army book has special rules for these guys, so they'll just be more heroes.

-4 metal wizards on foot, from when they were lore-specific. Bright, Jade, Gold and Grey wizards.

-6 metal Knights Panther with standard and grand master.

-6 metal Knights of the White Wolf, with standard and grand master.

-30 halberdiers. These guys were the single-pose models, the "fat" ones that were purchased as the Regiment of Altdorf.

-16 handgunners with full command.

-16 swordsmen with full command.

-10 archers.

-old metal steam tank, the one with the single cannon and engineer w/volley pistol.

-1 cannon, 1 hellblaster, 1 mortar.

Any suggestions as to what would work well in the new edition, including any suggested adds to the current collection would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## Alexious (Apr 13, 2009)

lange72 said:


> My friend picked up the new edition of Warhammer, and gave me a reason to pull out my old Empire army. I haven't played for many years (since 3rd Ed) and wanted the opinion of current players as to what I have. What's still good, and what do I need to add to make a decently-playable army. I will be getting the most recent Empire army book early in the new year but wanted opinions as to how I may plan my purchases for the next 6 months or so.
> 
> Welcome back General. The Empire needs more heroic commanders.
> 
> ...


You need more core first though so that is where I would be investing.

Good luck general.... For the Empire!


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## Brother Malleus (Dec 6, 2011)

As Alexious has said pretty much everything you have is effective in 8th, I would look into getting more infantry aim for at least 30 when you purchase the core state troopers

Halberds are good for S4
Swordsmen are good for WS4, I4 and parry save
I'd also Invest in more Mortars (they do great at taking out large amount of models from the Horde Edition of warhammer)


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## olderplayer (Dec 11, 2009)

Despite having slightly expensive points costs for core state troops and special units and cav, empire is right now a well above average army in 8th edition. This is because the 8th edition rules favor war machines and magic and empire has some of the best of both. While you core and special troops are slightly overpriced in terms of points costs for characteristics, they are cheap enough to be run in larger units and to be augmented by characters and magic sufficiently to make them viable after the magic and war machines have done a lot of work reducing the enemy units. 

In core, halberds and swords should be the base and they really need to be run large to remain steadfast. Militia are useful as cheap detachment units for hitting flanks using the detachment rules. Greatswords are the special unit and useful because they have excellent armour, hit hard and are stubborn, but all of these units are slightly expensive relative to comparable units unless augmented by war priests or arch lectors (bound spells) and/or spells cast by a good lvl 4 and lvl 2 wizard. Right, now empire is one of the better armies for magic offense and defence and has the second best war machines to dwarfs, that should be the focus. 

One of the heroes should be a captain BSB that is well armoured and either has a good ward save (4+) or re-rollable high armour save. A survivable BSB is very important in 8th edition in allowing you to re-roll panic, fear, break and other leadership checks within twelve inches of the BSB and your army has only modest LD values. Also, you can use some of the old elector counts as war priests or as an arch lector. War priests and arch lectors have bounds spells that can be very valuable and annoying to deal with that boost their units and they give their units hatred. Also, the lord gives you 2 dispel dice and the war priest gives you one dispel dice, so they really boost your magic defense. Finally, use of the war priests or arch lector will allow you to run flagellants as core units. 

A flagellant unit can have a max size of 30. Flagellants will die easily (T3, no armour) but they can really hit hard in the first turn of combat with flails (+2 Strength in the first round of combat) and are always frenzied (+1 attack for all models in the first rank in base contact). Additionally, they have the ability to sacrifice models at the beginning of combat (D3 models sacrificed, with 1=hatred; 2=hatred and re-roll to wound; 3= hatred, re-roll to wound, and +1 Combat res) to boost their ability to hit and wound. Because they have only WS=2, they really need the hatred to They are unbreakable, so the enemy unit must kill em all to get free. Also, if you can get the lore of life flesh to stone spell off on a unit of flagellants, then you will do very well in combat because they become tougher to kill. 

Given what you have, I would pick up a lot more swordsmen and halberds (enough for at least 40 to 50 in each unit); pick up some militia that can be used as either militia or as flagellants (30 total for max flag unit); and get a second cannon and a second mortar. 

Cannons and mortars are right now your best options. With a master engineer in range, they really are quite accurate and effective. At 2500 points, I'd always consider two cannons and two mortars standard. The mortars use the large template and reduce the armour save, so they are essential. The hellblaster is used and underrated but does not benefit from the master engineer re-rolls. 

The hate for steam tanks is that with T10 and 1+ AS and unbreakable, they are very difficult to kill except by use of certain spells from lores of metal and death and by cannons. They just tie up the game and some armies cannot deal with them very well. Thus, it is considered bad form to play two but not bad form to play one. I really think you need at least one steam tank to hold something down but avoid non-open terrain. The steam tank is a chariot and takes a dangerous terrain test that, if failed, can cause D6 wounds. Once the steam tank has taken 3 or 4 wounds, its effectiveness is greatly reduced except to tarpit something tough that the rest of your army cannot deal with. 

Two units of handgunners, properly placed can be effective in protecting the war machines but the move or shoot rule is a huge pain. Handgunners are played and playable and can be effective in cutting down units with their S4, AP shots, especially if in a building. 

Archers are playable as a detachment, but not quite points efficient. 

I like empire cav, but the 8th edition rules really limit the value of heavy cav. Assuming a new empire book may be out in the middle of this year, expect the points costs of cav to be reduced and these to be worth playing again. 

I personally think that the detachment system is way under-rated and under-utilized in 8th edition.


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## The Son of Horus (Dec 30, 2006)

I'd echo the previous comments-- everything you have is still good, but you'll need to expand your Core selections a bit. State Troops thrive on being 40-strong these days. 

Something else you might consider are Greatswords. I don't pay a lot of attention to the whole internet metagame thing, so I don't know how the "general consensus" looks for them, but I do know that as a Warriors of Chaos player, Greatswords annoy the bejesus out of me. A unit of 30 Greatswords is -very- hard for even me, with elite infantry, to counter in combat effectively. So once you get your Core filled out a bit more, I'd seriously consider checking out the Greatswords. Great Weapons are, for lack of a better word, great in this edition due to the Step Up mechanic. Essentially, if you've got guys in base, they get to fight, even if the guy in front of them was removed as a casualty-- the back ranks "step up" to fight at each initiative step. So even with Always Strikes Last, Greatswords throw a bunch of attacks that generally wound on 2's.


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## lange72 (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks for the replies all. Very nice to see they still all have uses. I didn't realize the game changed to really need such big core units, but a few state troops boxes can fix that. 

I've always regretted not getting greatswords, but 20 yrs ago that was a lot of metal minis to buy...now i can get a nice block to add to the army more cheaply


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## fatbag26 (Dec 22, 2011)

Also, with all the war machines, i suggest you buy an engineer, theyre a bit expensive (points) for what you get, but stick one with the helblaster and see what it can do.

thanks,
Fatbag


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## Brother Malleus (Dec 6, 2011)

lange72 said:


> Thanks for the replies all. Very nice to see they still all have uses. I didn't realize the game changed to really need such big core units, but a few state troops boxes can fix that.
> 
> I've always regretted not getting greatswords, but 20 yrs ago that was a lot of metal minis to buy...now i can get a nice block to add to the army more cheaply


Shame I just sold me Empire stuff...well most of it


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