# How many Orks?



## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

Just wondering what is your estimate for the amount of Ork boys a single marine could kill before he died for instance a 5 man squad, IMO, could kill around 50 Orks which is ten per man. I suppose If the number gets past a certain point, the more Orks they kill the more realistic as of around 5 crimson fist held of thousands at rynns world but I assume this is the average.


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## Baron Spikey (Mar 26, 2008)

It depends really- 1 Astartes alone would be mince meat against 10 Orks (unless the advantage of location and/or equipment/skill were heavily weighted in his favour) whilst yes a small squad might be able to edge towards being able to take on 10 orks each as long as they could do it from a distance.

Up close 50 Orks would barely be slowed by 5 'standard' Marines.


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## Klaivex (Dec 21, 2010)

Based on what I have seen of the new space marine video game 1 ultramarine can kill ALL the orks by himself! But thats ultramarines for you. They seem to be the best at killing Orks, Tyranids, CSM, Eldar avatars etc...

As for normal marines I think it would depend on the number of orks. Orks tend to be "braver" and more frenzied the more of them their are so their would be a large curve the more outnumbered the marines were. 

It would also depend on location. If the marines were in a defensible position they would probably take down quite a few before being swept away by the green tide. 

It would also depend on tactics. Raven guard for example (namely the 3ed company) are good at doing damage to a larger number of orks and then getting the hell out of their fast to do it again in a different location. Their element of surprise would up their kill count.

It would also depend on what weapons were being used. If it was a devastator squad with missiles of heavy bolters they could do lots of damage before the orks even reached them (they would probably kill more orks if their was a horde of them as misses would be less of an issue).

Their are to many variable to give an honest estimate. Plus different authors (matt ward cough cough) vary the descriptions of a marines battle prowess.


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## Rems (Jun 20, 2011)

Too many variables. 

Do you mean in close combat, at range- what distance, what kind of terrain, what weapons do they have?

For the sake of the argument lets say a standard combat squad with a special weapon of a flamer. They're fighting in one of Armageddons hives lots of orks there. If the marine are allowed to pick their engagements, as you would expect them too, being veteran soldiers with decades or centuries of experience, i imagine they could kill as many orks as they had ammunition, plus a few more in close combat. 

Every shot fired is a dead ork, Astartes are good shots and bolters deadly weapons. They should be able to thin out any mob of boyz they come across enough to take them out in close combat. A space marine is as strong as an ork but faster, better trained and equipped, and better protected not to mention tactically superior. 

The thing is though it would be rare for a combat squad of marines going round engaging orks. They would have support and be deployed as part of a battleplan giving them an inherent strategic advantage from the get go. 

I think the novel Helsreach gives a good indication of Astartes versus ork combat. One on one a space marine wins every time, as do they when properly supported and deployed as part of a strategy. Where the marines fall to the orks is when overwhelming numbers are able to engage them in combat and drag them down. The Black Templars in the novel were losing a war of attrition. Every time they engaged the orks in a major battle they lost some astartes, they could not keep such casualty trades going. Astartes are for pin point lighting strikes with designated objectives. They are too few and unsuited for long term outright war.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

Well, in Fulgrim, Saul Tarvitz states that an Astartes would beat an Ork 9 out of 10 times. The thing is though, it also depends on the Orks. An Ork who's been fighting constantly, especially if they've been successful, will be a lot harder to take down then some relatively new Ork. 

Physically, Orks are close to equal to an Astartes in strength (some fluff says nearly as strong while others say stronger). And they can take even more punishment than an Astartes before dropping. Astartes though are better armoured and more disciplined and tend to possess greater combat skills, in general. So individually the Astartes definitnely has the advantage. 

What pisses me off is all these IG fanboy novels where some random guardsman drops an Ork with nothing but a combat knife or something similar. If I remember correctly, there was even an instance somewhere of an Ork dying form a slit throat. Fucking seriously? Orks can temporarily survive decapitation! One novel that especially annoyed me was that load of crap _Death World_. In it, it's stated that some Warbosses have been known to go toe to toe with Space Marines. Fuck, any Warboss worth the title is capable of doing that with ease. In fact, it normally takes the toughest, most skilled and most experienced marines to drop a Warboss in CC.

This all being said, I really have no clue as to what an accurate answer is.:biggrin:


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## 777swappamag777 (Jul 15, 2011)

It depends in what version of 40k in dawn of war yea if the orks are on easy. The spacemarine game duble the number minus five then add a million. in the tabletop the space marines might reach 3-4 kills each, and in the books probably 10-12.


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## connor (Jan 31, 2011)

Chompy Bits said:


> Physically, Orks are close to equal to an Astartes in strength (some fluff says nearly as strong while others say stronger).


doesnt it say in ork codex that orks get bigger and stronger as they fight.


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## Chompy Bits (Jun 13, 2010)

connor said:


> doesnt it say in ork codex that orks get bigger and stronger as they fight.


Yes, it does and they do. The fluff I was referring to was both from an Imperial point of view. The claim that they're stronger is in _Rynn's World_ where as the claim that they are nearly as strong is in _Fulgrim_. 

I think they were talking about the average Ork boy when they mentioned this. Then again, maybe the Imperials simply don't know that much about Orks.


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## connor (Jan 31, 2011)

Chompy Bits said:


> Yes, it does and they do. The fluff I was referring to was both from an Imperial point of view. The claim that they're stronger is in _Rynn's World_ where as the claim that they are nearly as strong is in _Fulgrim_.
> 
> 
> > Rynns world? Fulgrim? *SIGH* i need to read more WH40K books.


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## ChaosDefilerofUlthuan (Jan 25, 2011)

I got this from areas like the Battle for Rynns World where the crimson fist tore through a huge force of Orks despite being decimated under the command of Kantor till some very eldar-like 'friendlies' attacked them by the rear (space marine codex)


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Chompy Bits said:


> Well, in Fulgrim, Saul Tarvitz states that an Astartes would beat an Ork 9 out of 10 times. The thing is though, it also depends on the Orks. An Ork who's been fighting constantly, especially if they've been successful, will be a lot harder to take down then some relatively new Ork.
> 
> Physically, Orks are close to equal to an Astartes in strength (some fluff says nearly as strong while others say stronger). And they can take even more punishment than an Astartes before dropping. Astartes though are better armoured and more disciplined and tend to possess greater combat skills, in general. So individually the Astartes definitnely has the advantage.
> 
> ...


It's just too easy to portray orks as being weaker than they truly are because they have the numbers advantage. You know the old formula: Rare = strong, common = weak, though there are always exceptions. To say the average ork has the strength of a Space Marine and can take even more punishment is just plain unfair to a poor Guardsman with nothing but a flashlight.

Of course, no one said it had to be fair. But a fight that's over before it begins (and your protagonist is the guy who loses) is not good story/adventure material.


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## Achaylus72 (Apr 30, 2011)

After watching a vid on YouTube and seeing some 10 Ultramarines kill over 100 CSM, Daemons and a Daemon Prince. So if this is the normal standard then one Ultramarine can kill an entire WAAUGH all by himself.

In the same vid mentioned an entire company of Howling Griffons are obliterated.

So it seems that 1 ultramarine equals 10 Howling Griffons.


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## Deadeye776 (May 26, 2011)

Yeah,the smurf seem pretty bad-ass nowadays.To bad their daddy couldn't handle getting his handed too him by his metro-brother. Take solace in the knowledge that before the Emperor use his godlike tactician mind to think it would be cool to "take it easy" facing his chaos empowered son,the closest he ever came to death before that was at the hands of an ork. Horus actually had to save his life.


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## D-A-C (Sep 21, 2010)

You have to keep in mind that Ork's tend to be tactically quite limited and tend to charge and use weight of numbers to win.

Yes there are 'sneaky' Orks who develop 'Planz' but they aren't that sophisticated and usually work because they were underrated in the first place.

So, from a tactical perspective, Orks would incur significantly higher casulties than Astartes just by the way that they fight.

Orks win by sheer brute force and numbers, Astartes win by sheer for and tactics. 

Astartes apply the maximum amount of pressure to enemy weak points and win, Orks pour forward and sweep all before them, and keep coming back for more and more and more.


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## Doelago (Nov 29, 2009)

Deadeye776 said:


> Yeah,the smurf seem pretty bad-ass nowadays.


It seems you have failed to notice that Space Marines in general are pretty badass.



Achaylus72 said:


> After watching a vid on YouTube and seeing some 10 Ultramarines kill over 100 CSM, Daemons and a Daemon Prince. So if this is the normal standard then one Ultramarine can kill an entire WAAUGH all by himself.
> 
> In the same vid mentioned an entire company of Howling Griffons are obliterated.
> 
> So it seems that 1 ultramarine equals 10 Howling Griffons.


Ouh, please, I also want to see that video. Sounds pretty awesome tbh.


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