# Beginner Ork Advice?



## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

So, it's a little after St. Pats to go green, but I've come into possession of a small body or orkses that I'd like to turn into a green menace.

What I got:
Battleforce (20 boyz, 1 trukk, 3 bikers) and 2 boxes of Lootas (Each box only makes 4 bloody lootas, damnit)

But I know that's hardly a dent in what I'll need. 

Here's the list I'm aiming for
HQ: 100
Big Mek w/Shokk Attack Gun, 'Eavy Armor 100pts

Elites: 675
15 Lootas 225pts
15 Tankbustas 225pts
15 Tankbustas 225pts

Troops: 302
11 Boyz w/big Shoota, Klaw Nob & Trukk w/Boarding Ramp, Big Shoota & Stikkbom Chucka 151pts

11 Boyz w/big Shoota, Klaw Nob & Trukk w/Boarding Ramp, Big Shoota & Stikkbom Chucka 151pts

Fast Attack: 150
Deffkopta w/Bigbomm 50pts
Deffkopta w/Bigbomm 50pts
Deffkopta w/Bigbomm 50pts

Heavy Support: 270
Battle Wagon w/3 Big Shootas, 1 Rokkit Launcha, Red Paint, Grot Rigger, Armor Plates 135pts

Battle Wagon w/3 Big Shootas, 1 Rokkit Launcha, Red Paint, Grot Rigger, Armor Plates 135pts

Total: 1497

The idea is that the tankbustas ride inside the open topped wagons. The wagons sole purpose is to keep moving and keep the bustas away from harm, if at all possible and keep them on target with enemy units and vehicles. The bustas can all fire out of the open top, even if the vehicle has moved, so they can blow the shit out of enemy vehicles and decimate meqs.

The Mek will probably hang in back with the Lootas and form a static gunline from hell. Though I might keep him a bit away from them in case he misfires.

The boyz are pretty straight up trukk assault teams, and the copters are there to drop bomms and grab objectives. I could drop them in favor of another mob of boyz though, or a battlewagon with some big guns on it

Is that effective, or am I blowing too many points on firepower when I should be rolling out big mobs?


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

-im a beginner Ork player aswell mate, But I strongly suggest you loose the tankbusters, they can so be tricked since they are glory hogs. 1 or 2 biig mobs of 30 is a must.....

keep the lootas
Deffkopta is hmm, expensive units...

you will struggle against many armies with that setup, you wil lget shot up, and your tank bustas inside the wagons arnt really a threat... fill them up with burnas or nobs instead, or 20 orks =)


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

You wouldn't call an AV14 tank that can move 13 inches and still unleash 15 S8 AP3 rockets a threat?

Also huge mobs can't be transported, and CC units that can;t be transported are easy to ignore, thus making them pretty much useless.

I could see swapping one tankbusta squad for a mess of CC boyz and putitng them in the other wagon, but I'm not sure I like the idea of a foot-slogging close combat army, especially one with very little mobile fire support.

Here's an altered list, less shooty, more stabby
HQ: 100
Big Mek w/ 'Eavy Rmor and SHokk Attack Gun 100

Elites: 450
15x Lootas 225
15x Tankbustas 225

Troops: 535
10x Boyz w/PK Nob, Trukk w/Plank, Chukka, Big Shoota 145
10x Boyz w/PK Nob, Trukk w/Plank, Chukka, Big Shoota 145
20x 'Ard Boyz w/PK Nob, 2x Big Shoota

Fast: 150
Deffkopta w/Bigbomm 50
Deffkopta w/Bigbomm 50
Deffkopta w/Bigbomm 50

Heavy: 265
Battlewagon w/4x Big Shoota, Red Paint, Riggers, Armor Plates (for the bustas)
Battlewagon w/4x Big Shoota, Red Paint, Riggers, Armor Plates, Chukka (for the 'Ard Boyz)

Total 1500

I think I might drop the grot riggers or the Red Paint on the second wagon in favor of a Boarding Plank, so that Nob can swing over and whack a tank wihtout having to unload his whole crew.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

15 lootas is wicked =) , and i like those 20ard boyz, Please inform me on how those deffcopptas are like, but dont u think bikes will be a lill better since they get that 4+ cover save ?

get some tank hammers for those Tank Bustas, for a wikced str 10 in close combat, free upgrade..

This is my main 1500 Pts Horde

1500 Pts - Orks Roster 

HQ: Weirdboy 
1 Weirdboy @ 55 Pts

HQ: Weirdboy
1 Weirdboy @ 55 Pts

Troops: Shoota Boyz 
29 Boyz @ 230 Pts
Big Shoota (x3); 
1 Boyz Nob @ [41] Pts Power Klaw; 

Troops: Boyz 
29 Boyz @ 245 Pts
Choppa & Slugga; Rokkit Launcha (x3); 
1 Boyz Nob @ [41] Pts Power Klaw; 

Elite: 180 Pts)
12 Lootas @ 180 Pts


Elite: Kommandos 
11 Kommandos @ 225 Pts
Choppa & Slugga; Burna (x2); 
1 Boss Snikrot @ [85] Pts


Troops: 'Ard Boyz 
11 'Ard Boyz @ 205 Pts
Choppa & Slugga; Rokkit Launcha (x1); 
1 'Ard Boyz Nob @ 
Big Choppa; Bosspole
1 Trukk @ [55] Pts
Big Shoota (x1); Armour Plates; Red Paint Job; Stikkbomb Chukka

Heavy Support: 
1 Zzap Gun Battery @ 117 Pts
Zzap Gun (x3); Ammo Runt (x3); Additional Gun Krew
6 Gretchin @ [18] Pts
6 Gretchin @ [0] Pts

Elite: Burna Boyz 
8 Burna Boyz @ 150 Pts
Burna; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!
2 Mekboy @ [30] Pts
Kustom Mega-Blasta (x2); Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Mek's Tools

Heavy Support: 35 Pts
1 Looted Wagon @ 35 Pts
Don't Press Dat!

Total Roster Cost: 1497

Merged posts. Remember the Edit button...
-G


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Bogg said:


> 15 lootas is wicked =) , and i like those 20ard boyz, Please inform me on how those deffcopptas are like, but dont u think bikes will be a lill better since they get that 4+ cover save ?
> 
> get some tank hammers for those Tank Bustas, for a wikced str 10 in close combat, free upgrade..


The whole point of the tankbustas in the wagon is as a highly mobile missile platform. Tankhammas are cool, but they defeat the purpose of being able to move really fast and launch a metric fuckton of rockets. If I do need to unload them and have them whack something, there's always their bombs. 15 attacks at 6+2d6 will put a dent in most tanks

As for the koptas, I'm mainly curious to see how well they work. I have a feeling they'll fill the same role as speeders or attack bikes. Run them to snag objectives, or sic them on troop formations. Being able to turboi-boost and still drop a pieplate is pretty sweet. 

Bikes are cheaper and arguably tougher, but I'd only be able to afford one relatively small mob for that price. I'd rather have three one-man kopta mobs that I can split up and take objectives with. But I could swap them out for another trukk mob if they end up sucking.

So, do we have any other experienced ork players out there willing to take pity on me? ;-)


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## Culler (Dec 27, 2007)

Your second list seems pretty solid. There's some alterations you may want to consider though:

'eavy armor on the mek is like spitting at a bulldozer to stop from getting run over. If he's getting shot, he's probably going down. Not saying it needs to go but if you need 5 points from somewhere, there ya go.

Deff rollas for your battlewagons should be considered, as they are very awesome for many things.

20 shoota boyz in a battlewagon can be fun. You're probably better off with the slugga boyz but I like the idea of a mobile fortress with 55 shots.

The deffkoptas aren't bad in your army. I don't use them in mine but you've got a good setup for them to be long range snipers and skirmish units, especially since you can hide them behind the wagons (trukks too but they're more likely to be taken out from in front of your koptas with ramshackle). You may want to consider changing how you've got them set up though. Honestly, the standard variant isn't bad for a skirmish model. For a unit that can actually take down some dedicated ranged squads, put them all in 1 group, give them a buzzsaw, and take away a bomb or two. The bombs are more useful if you're actually equipped for melee too since you have to be so close to use them. If you can't handle melee, it's probably better to take normal koptas that can put out some good fire from afar. The slim ranged pewpewpew koptas aren't that point-efficient, and may even be better off as warbuggies. The kopta skirmish squad however can do some pretty good things, but is better if you can get a 4th or 5th one in. I completely agree with not changing them to warbikers. Warbikers are best taken in a minimum group of 8 with a PK nob. 12 is optimal. Anything lower than that and casualties are a big problem.

Seems like a good list to me though, on the whole. Boarding planks aren't really very useful, so I wouldn't worry about 'em, though throw in a grabbing klaw and you have one of the only ways to screw skimmers...provided they let you get that close. I don't personally play mechanized orks, but I've fought them and seen enough lists enough times to have a good feel (and played my orks many times). I'm a footslogger/warbiker fan. Anvil and hammer, if you will.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Culler said:


> Your second list seems pretty solid. There's some alterations you may want to consider though:
> 
> 'eavy armor on the mek is like spitting at a bulldozer to stop from getting run over. If he's getting shot, he's probably going down. Not saying it needs to go but if you need 5 points from somewhere, there ya go.
> 
> Deff rollas for your battlewagons should be considered, as they are very awesome for many things.


Humm, that could buy an upgrade from big shoota to rokkit launcha for one of the wagons, or put me a little closer to buying a roller for the 'Ard Boyz wagon. I did like that roller...I'd have to drop something else to afford it, though.



> 20 shoota boyz in a battlewagon can be fun. You're probably better off with the slugga boyz but I like the idea of a mobile fortress with 55 shots.


LOL, that is tempting, even if only a third of them end up hitting. It's something I might consider for future lists. After all, I'm going to end up with a ton of Shoota arms and Fantasy Orks are cheap :grin:

Actually, fantasy orks might make good 'ard boyz, what with their primative amror and all.

I wonder if they have fantasy goblin archers besides the Night Goblins...they'd make good, cheap grotz. Someone suggested slapping a cheap unit of grotz in front of the big mek to act as a fire screen against incoming fire and to be a throw-away in case the SAG misfires. Might save it for a bigger list though.



> The deffkoptas aren't bad in your army. I don't use them in mine but you've got a good setup for them to be long range snipers and skirmish units, especially since you can hide them behind the wagons (trukks too but they're more likely to be taken out from in front of your koptas with ramshackle). You may want to consider changing how you've got them set up though. Honestly, the standard variant isn't bad for a skirmish model. For a unit that can actually take down some dedicated ranged squads, put them all in 1 group, give them a buzzsaw, and take away a bomb or two. The bombs are more useful if you're actually equipped for melee too since you have to be so close to use them. If you can't handle melee, it's probably better to take normal koptas that can put out some good fire from afar.


Mmmm, good idea. If I squad them up, drop two bombs (so to speak) and strap on a buzzsaw it;s another 5 points saved (that should be enough for a roller if I drop the armor off my mek)



> The slim ranged pewpewpew koptas aren't that point-efficient, and may even be better off as warbuggies. The kopta skirmish squad however can do some pretty good things, but is better if you can get a 4th or 5th one in. I completely agree with not changing them to warbikers. Warbikers are best taken in a minimum group of 8 with a PK nob. 12 is optimal. Anything lower than that and casualties are a big problem.


Do you think three is too few for the koptas, or do you think they can be effective as-is?



> Seems like a good list to me though, on the whole. Boarding planks aren't really very useful, so I wouldn't worry about 'em, though throw in a grabbing klaw and you have one of the only ways to screw skimmers...provided they let you get that close. I don't personally play mechanized orks, but I've fought them and seen enough lists enough times to have a good feel (and played my orks many times). I'm a footslogger/warbiker fan. Anvil and hammer, if you will.


I might have to try the ramp a bit and see how I like it. It would probably be more effective on a wagon than a trukk though, since the wagons are harder to kill, less reason to get out unless you have to.

And thanks for the advice, it really helps.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Just had a game with the second list in Vassal.

I made a couple fuckups (Mainly in underestimating the power of my busters and thus screwing up assaults, leaivng my boyz holding their dicks) and had some hard luck, so by T3 I was down to one mob...but I learned some things.

1: Keep the Mek well the fuck away from everyone. 
Turn 1, shot 1, I go to land a pieplate of death on his Death Company...and I roll snakeeyes. Kills the Mek and like 5 of my lootas before my enemy can even load his boltguns.

2: The "Bustawagon" fucking rocks. 
I was rolling all around, using cover and moving my full 12-13" and *still* obliterating whole squads of marines in one go (no vehicles, so glory hogs was not an issue). I wiped out his DC in one shot. But that brings me to the second point...

3: 15 Tankbustas will probably kill everything they shoot at. DO NOT SHOOT them at units you plan to assault. 
I was going to assault his DC with 20 'Ard Boyz, but with the DC made into a smoking crater, my boyz were left holding their dicks while everyone else on that half of the board shot the fuck out of them.

4: Stay Inna Wagon! 
I got cocky and pulled my busters up near an objective and unloaded them. The plan was to have them assault a nearby squad while the wagon rolled on to shock his scouts off of the other nearby objective.
That was dumb. The busters obliterated their target, which meant no charge. They took a lot of shooting casualties, and the wagon got wrecked. If they'dhave stayed inside at least they would have had some cover in the impending shooting/assaulting. Chances are the casualties from bailing would have been less than the shooting losses and I4 assault casualties.

5: Koptas Have Lotsa Rules: Look 'Em Up!
I forgot they have Scouts, so they didn't get their scout move on turn 1. I forgot they had Hit and run, so they got wiped on the second turn of an assault they shouldn't have been in.

6: Deffguns Are Fun, But Remember AP4
I was wasting shots shooting at his tacticals (especially since they were within range of corbulo and an HG with a medic), all the while I could have been raping the two scout squads he had creeping up on me instead of letting them get close enough to shoot me back.

Had I been smarted and more knowledgeable of my units capabilities (and less insanely unlucky with that SAG) the game would have gone muuuuch better for me.

I'm also thinking about dropping the armor plates from my wagons. Open Topped means being stunned is the least of your worries. Seriously, it's 20 points that could have bought me more boyz.

The bustas performed really well, but the 'ard boyz not so much. I'm debating on either switching back go 2 busta mobs...that or dropping one of the trukk squads and the koptas to buy a second bustawagon and keep the 'ard boyz. Need to fiddle with it some more, I think.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

haha nice one...now! try 2x60 Boys....Waaaagh1!!!!

on the ard boys side, buy the Black Orcs from fantasy, they have kool armor =), they only come in 10s tho, so if u are looking for 20, cheaper to buy normal ones....


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Vassal would choke on that many models, so I wouldn't be able to test it ;-)

I was thinking of black orks for 'Eavy Armor nobs, if I buy any. They look bigger than your normal ork. Regular fantasy orks have chain shirts and the like. A couple of plates here and there and they;d be good 'ard boyz


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## Shamrok (Feb 14, 2008)

I was thinking of that for a friends conversions he asked help on, i think they wold look pretty good.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

How about Nobz?

They're expensive, but that painboy makes them very, very desirable. I thought about buying bikes for them, but that turned out insanely expensive. 5 nobs (1 painboy, 1 klaw, 3 big choppa) with bikes was like 300 points! Giving them 'Eavy Armor and either a Wagon or Trukk (ramshackle makes an AV10 transport surprisingly survivable) would be cool though.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

I think the best ork army is the good 'ol fashioned horde army. I've been thinkin bout startin one myself


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Well I was going to tell you to keep the SAG mek away from everyone but you found that out. Anyway I would say drop the Ard BOyz and either down grade them to regular boyz or go with a Nob squad. 
A Nob squad in a truck are distructive to anything they charge into especially if they have some big choppas or a couple of claws.

I would drop the armor plates from the wagons and the BIg Mek but keep the rigger unless you feel they are not needed.

I think you have a good solid list that most armies are going to have trouble handling.
You may want to try a Big gun battery with 3 kannons if you wanted to add some more long range fire power that can be a threat to armor and troops as you can switch between what kind of shells you fire each round. I don't think your list needs it but it might be something to try for giggles.

I haven't change my old army over to the new codex all the way yet but looking at your list I may model my army around yours. So please keep us updated on how things go.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Solitare, unfortunately horde armies don't work in vassal (which is, unfortunately, where I'll be doing most of my playing these days).

Morf, yeah I've already come to the realization that armor plates on open topped vehicles are useless. I thought about big guns, but really I'm looking at those tankbustas and thinking there's not much they cannot handle. Their short range is mitigated by the fact they can move 13" a turn and fire. Their lack of a frag setting is mitigated by the sheer volume of fire, same with their S8 against AV14. If anything I need more of theses guys ;-)

As for nobs, you'd say that they're better for their points than the 'ard boyz?


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

Galahad said:


> As for nobs, you'd say that they're better for their points than the 'ard boyz?


I do like the nob squad over the Ard boyz. Even though they are a smaller squad you can add multipal big choppa's and power klaws to the squad. They are higher strength, more wounds, higher Intiative and more attacks. 

You can add heavy armor or a pain boy and give them cybork bodies for the 5+ Invul save. Team them up with a waagh banner and you have a squad that Marines fear getting assualted by. 

If Skarboyz had survived to the new codex, I would say take a group of them so now Nob squads have become my new skar boyz mobs. THe Ard boyz only have the 4+ save option. Plus I have never had much luck with Ard boyz mobs. THey never seem to do anything in either assualt or drawing fire away from other units.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

the only problem with getting rid of the 'ard boyz, particularly if they're being replaced with nobz is that now I need a second troop choice...that or I need a warboss to make the nobs a troop choice. Expensive either way


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

You do have the two squads of truck boyz each counts as a troop choice as long as they are 10 or more boyz. I think I would still down grade them to regular boyz and use the points for some fun upgrades or toys for the army. Deathrollers on the battlewagons or something like that.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

Here's a revised list along those lines.

HQ: 185
Big Mek w/SAG 95
Warboss w/Big Choppa, Shoota, Attack Squig, Cybork Body 90

Elites: 450
15 Lootas 225
15 Tankbustas 225

Troops: 667
12 Trukk Boyz, big shoota, PK nob, Trukk w/paint, chukka, Big Shoota 157
10 Nobz, Painboy, Cybork Bodies, 2 PK, 7 Big Choppa, Battlewagon w/4 Big Shoota, Roller, paint, chukka 510

Heavy Support: 198
Battlewagon (for bustas) w/4 Big Shoota, paint, riggers 120
Kannon Battery 3 Kannon, 6 additional crew 78

Could drop the kannons and the warboss and take a second Trukk squad instead and have a couple points left over.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

I would say try this list out to see how it does as well as try out the other option. These were kind of dramatic changes to your list. I am worried they we may be trying to fix something that ain't broken in the first place. Especially since your first list wasn't that bad to begin with.


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

I think I'll try the second option (The one with the trukk squad instead of the warboss and guns), it's less of a dramatic change, I think.


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Ifyou are gonna have a Warboss don't bother with a big choppa, he's str 6 on the charge anyway. Either leave him with a choppa or give him a PK.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

uhmm. +2 str for 5 pts, take the Big Choppa!


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

But on the charge he'll be wounding anyone of T4 or worse on 2+ anyway and a Big Choppa costs you an attack because it is a two handed weapon.


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## bishop5 (Jan 28, 2008)

Just got the Ork codex and have had a couple of games so far using them; great fun.

HQ-wise, I loved using Ghazghull with a mob of Nobz with a painboy, a couple of PKs, 5+ inv. Needed a battlewagon to make it really deadly tho, and this takes up a lot of points. Potential for a stupidly hard unit.


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

solitaire said:


> But on the charge he'll be wounding anyone of T4 or worse on 2+ anyway and a Big Choppa costs you an attack because it is a two handed weapon.


but ofcourse, but i dont wanna get stuck in a combat with a dreadnaught and not being able to inflict any damage on it, call it experiance.

and it is great to boost out of a unit and waaaagh your way up to a vehicle, and smash its front armor of 12.....well u get the idea...life is cheap!!!

Bigga is better...always go for the Big Choppa if u cant afford the Power Klaw

"On a side note, i just noticed you got two 45 Posts, Solitaire.....haha"


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## solitaire (Mar 24, 2008)

Bogg said:


> "On a side note, i just noticed you got two 45 Posts, Solitaire.....haha"


??????????


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## Bogg (Mar 2, 2008)

look at the two lasts posts u have in this thread, they post read Posts:45



Never mind lol "Smacks head" ..... now they both read 47............."smacks head again"


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## striking scorpion (Nov 11, 2007)

Swap deffkopta to a warbike squd or a squad of buggies


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## Galahad (Dec 21, 2006)

150 points won;t buy you jack for warbikes, scorp. To field an effective unit of warbikers you need to be in the 8-10 model range. Buggies are possible though, but what makes them better than coptas? AV10 without being a fast skimmer is pretty flimsy.


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## morfangdakka (Dec 31, 2006)

No keep the koptas. The scout move the hit and run special rul plus the option to add buzzsaw which act as power klaws plus the bigbomm bomb option. You can also upgrade to kustom mega blastas. Sorry, I really like warbikes but unless you have atleast 5, I don't think the squad can be effective. 
Deffkoptas work well in small squads of 3 and they have the ability to do upgrades.

BUggy's are cool but they are not as good in this codex as they were in the last codex. Skorchas are still good especially against horde armies but I still would prefer a deffkopta.


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