# does Abaddon really think he is better then Horus



## Emperorguard500 (May 5, 2010)

*"Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy within his grasp and he let it slip away*
- Abaddon


its funny, does Abaddon really think he is superior to Horus.....

Horus would of wrecked him in a fight, 

does he really think he is "better" then Horus


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## Alsojames (Oct 25, 2010)

Looks that way. And who can blame him? The galaxy was within his grasp, and he hesitated for the briefest of moments, which allowed the Emperor to land the killing blow and undo everything Horus had worked for.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

No, from the quote Abaddon does not think he is better than Horus, simply that Horus was a fool and a failure. After all, Horus rounded up half of the legions when they were at the height of their respective powers, shattered the Imperium he and his fellow primarchs had spent centuries to create, orchestrated the massacre of two legions and the crippling of a third, brokered half of the Mechanicum to lend him support, and laid siege to the most powerful world in the Imperium. But for all that, Horus was still defeated and all his plans and planning turned to dust because of a measure of hubris.

Horus had the loyalists by the throat, Terra was a wreck and could only offer the barest of defense. The arrival of the Ultramarines and Space Wolves forced the warmaster to make one of two choices: engage both legion fleets with his combined armada in a battle that could delay his victory, or run a gambit in the hope that the Emperor would bite and be slain. And, well, we know what he chose and how that turned out.


Abaddon is, despite what others might like to think (since the vast majority of his black crusades have either been successes or the most minor of failures), a greater champion of chaos than Horus ever was. He doesn't hold onto the shards of emotion that his gene-father did, and would never hesitate and make the same decisions. After all, instead of heading straight for Terra when her defenses were weak, Horus slowed his advance (creating the seven year period known as the Age of Darkness which is what shattered the Imperium) and that gave the loyalists time.


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## WinZip (Oct 9, 2010)

Just because Abbadon speaks harshly does not mean he thinks he is better then Horus. He speaks more out dissapoint of having seen his Primarch close friend and fellow luna wolf fail at the chance of having the whole galaxy in his grasp and having it slip away at the last moment. Abbadon wants Horus's dream to become a reality and will do whatever it takes, including sidestepping Horus's mistakes. Besides that Abbadon has been at the forefront of all things Chaos for 10 millenia its probably beyond him to speak about anything without being blunt and harsh.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Horus had arms. ' Nuff said


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## mob16151 (Oct 20, 2011)

I can see Abaddon thinking he's better than Horus. He picked up the pieces of Horus failure. He now can take control of arguably more forces than Horus had. He's led multiple successful campaigns against the Imtperium. And he know when he has his sword at the Imperiums throat, he will not hesitate.

The traitor Marines as a whole are somewhat disillusioned with thier Primarchs as a general whole. I recall a quote along the lines of " The Primarchs were superhuman, so while not only where there success's superhumans, but so were there flaws and failures.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

Horus is the true champion of chaos. If he had won, Chaos would have lost, with the remnants of humanity destroyed by the eye of terror. 

Abaddon, on the other hand, is a mad lunatic, just scratching against the walls of the Imperium, because of vengeance. He's pretty much the chaos gods favorite action figure.

Anyhow, thats my thoughts on Abaddon.


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Sothot said:


> Horus had arms. ' Nuff said


I'm sorry but no, clearly not enough said. What the fuck is that supposed to mean?


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

darkreever said:


> No, from the quote Abaddon does not think he is better than Horus, simply that Horus was a fool and a failure.


True. However, from what else we know in general about Abaddon post-Heresy it seems that he not only thinks Horus was a fool and a failure, but that he is better than his gene-sire.

And why wouldn't he? He has spent ten millennia attempting to undo the failures of Horus. Realistically, he could be viewed as superior to Horus in several ways. According to more recent lore he can call upon the allegience of more than Horus ever could, despite Horus wielding authority over fully half of the Legiones Astartes at the height of their power. Horus was appointed Warmaster by the Emperor, whilst Abaddon forged the right to bear the title for himself during the inter-Legionary wars. The Sons of Horus were ruined after the Heresy; numerically, spiritually and it seemed likely that they would fall. Abaddon not only restored them, but increased their power to heights the Legion had never seen under the leadership of Horus. He has earnt the allegience of the traitor Legions and renegade warbands and his Black Crusades make the Imperium tremble, with the latest forcing the greatest mobilisation of Imperial forces since the Heresy itself.

Abaddon is the champion of the gods, bears the Mark of Chaos Ascendent and wields one of the most powerful artefacts in 40k lore. He is likely to be the most powerful mortal in the galaxy and likely has forged many more daemonic pacts than Horus ever did. There is certainly a legitimate argument to suggest Abaddon is _"better than"_ Horus. 

On a side note, the stereotypical perception of Abaddon being a failure is ridiculous and has no legitimate evidence to support it.



darkreever said:


> After all, instead of heading straight for Terra when her defenses were weak, Horus slowed his advance (creating the seven year period known as the Age of Darkness which is what shattered the Imperium) and that gave the loyalists time.


It does seem that there was a legitimate reason for taking seven years to reach Terra. Horus didn't intentionally delay in order to give the loyalists time because of some emotional weakness, it is portrayed as being the tactically sound option.


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## General-jwj (Sep 22, 2011)

darkreever said:


> I'm sorry but no, clearly not enough said. What the fuck is that supposed to mean?


It's a stupid joke relating to Castellan Creed's "Tactical Genius".










Here you go


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## SoulGazer (Jun 14, 2009)

It's true, if only more of the Black Legion was armless they'd do more damage in the Black Crusades.

Also yeah, he probably does think he's better than Horus. He's lasted much longer than Horus, at any rate.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> On a side note, the stereotypical perception of Abaddon being a failure is ridiculous and has no legitimate evidence to support it.


You could even argue that some of the Black Crusades, while appearing to be failures on the surface, were A) Part of his plan, or B) Will end up being ultimately beneficial to him later on. Thus, the perception of him failing is just a clever ruse by someone who probably deserves more credit. All he needs to do is take out Creed, and I'm sure the next Black Crusade will be the last.


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## Nave Senrag (Jul 8, 2010)

When Abbadon brings the entire Imperium to its knees, rather than occasionally picking off a world or two, and manages to cripple half of the space marine chapters in the Imperium, then he can talk about being better than Horus.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

It was indeed a stupid joke for a stupid thread. I fed the troll by making fun of it, everyone else feeds the troll by seriously answering questions like "does space marine thinks he's better than man? Cud imperial guard scared of chaos?"


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Sothot said:


> I fed the troll by making fun of it, everyone else feeds the troll by seriously answering questions like


So your bright idea is to respond to a 'troll' by you yourself trolling. Fuck me when did common sense leave everyone?



Sothot said:


> "does space marine thinks he's better than man?


Which is a legitimate question if you actually bother to think about it.



Sothot said:


> Cud imperial guard scared of chaos?"


That doesn't even begin to make sense.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

Space Marines don't need to think about whether or not they are better then men. It is fact that they are. I was content to make a sarcastic remark for my own amusement. Allow me to flesh out my thoughts.
Horus had arms, one of which Abaddon now wears. Abaddon is ashamed that he'll never be as good as Horus. It's an inferiority complex.
See, now it isn't even funny. You didn't have to jump down my throat and curse because you didn't get the joke.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

Not sure if 'better' is right word.

Abaddon thought Horus was wrong because he let his personal feelings get in the way of galactic domination, but I remember that (certainly before he was killed) abaddon used to practicaly worship the guy.


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## General-jwj (Sep 22, 2011)

Sothot said:


> Horus had arms, one of which Abaddon now wears.


Doesn't he just wear his Power Gauntlet though ? Or is it his literal arm and I thought it was some kind of metaphor ?


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## darkreever (Apr 3, 2008)

Sothot said:


> See, now it isn't even funny.


Not for nothing, but it was never funny.



Sothot said:


> Space Marines don't need to think about whether or not they are better then men. It is fact that they are.


Yes and no, space marines make for superior warriors/weapons but they have to give up most of their humanity for it.

A space marine can never live a normal life, he can never have a lover and from that make a family. In some cases they are better than humans, and in others they are worse.


There are some chapters who view themselves as above humanity, not caring about them in the slightest. Chapters like the Flesh Tearers or Marines Malevolent who go by the ideal of the ends justify the means, no matter what those are.

Then you have chapters like the Salamanders or the Crimson Fists who are more likely to lay down their lives protecting regular humans. Because the life of a real person, though ultimately unable to do as much as an augmented weapon, is deemed of greater value than that weapon which could go on to do so much more.




Sothot said:


> Abaddon is ashamed that he'll never be as good as Horus. It's an inferiority complex.


If you have been reading some of the posts here, you would know that he is most definitely not ashamed that he'll never be as good.


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

anyone remember this quote?

"Horus was a fool, he had the whole galaxy in his grasp and he let it slip away"
-Abaddon the Despoiler


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

Karak The Unfaithful said:


> anyone remember this quote?
> 
> "Horus was a fool, he had the whole galaxy in his grasp and he let it slip away"
> -Abaddon the Despoiler


You should really read the first post... k:


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## Karak The Unfaithful (Feb 13, 2011)

Child-of-the-Emperor said:


> You should really read the first post... k:


ah.

yes.

:shok:


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

darkreever said:


> Horus had the loyalists by the throat, Terra was a wreck and could only offer the barest of defense. The arrival of the Ultramarines and Space Wolves forced the warmaster to make one of two choices: engage both legion fleets with his combined armada in a battle that could delay his victory, or run a gambit in the hope that the Emperor would bite and be slain.


Horus had another choice: stay and win. Remember that the palace's final defenses had been breached, the only thing left was for Chaos' forces to mop up whoever was left. The Emperor is awesome, but he can't fight an Astartes army by himself, and even if he escapes with his life a guerilla campaign would be irrelevant. Remember also that sieges favor the defenders (depleted though Terra is) and that the UM and SW have only limited time before Chaos does something really bad (daemon world, suck into warp).

I propose a third strategy:

1) Go dirtside to lead your forces. Control of the palace, now that the inner defenses are breached, should only be a matter of a few days. Catching the Emperor is important, but he is irrelevant in the grand scheme.
2) Direct your fleet to delay the attack.
3) Concentrate on winning the ground war and turning Terra into a daemon planet. Make Terra something the attackers don't want and they'll go away.


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## anedcav (Nov 13, 2011)

horus made one mistack not to vires bomb the planet


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## Harriticus (Nov 10, 2010)

Abaddon has a huge inferiority complex with Horus and it's a very sensitive issue for him. I recall in Soul Hunter when Talos met Abaddon he basically just insulted the poor guy, called Abaddon a slave to the Chaos Gods, a fool, has no right to lead, stood no chance against the Imperium, etc.. Abaddon just laughed it all off. Then Talos said he'll never be able to live up to Horus' name, and Abaddon went batshit and shot him.


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## Davidicus 40k (Jun 4, 2010)

anedcav said:


> horus made one mistack not to vires bomb the planet


Horus wanted to destroy the Imperium, but not completely. He wanted to leave Terra intact (well, as intact as possible) so that he could take over and make a "better" dominion. Remember, Terra is the heart of mankind, so to virus bomb it would kind of contradict his mission of being a "savior" of the race.


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## Sothot (Jul 22, 2011)

darkreever said:


> A space marine can never live a normal life, he can never have a lover and from that make a family.


In a setting where your every moment is spent waiting for some fanged bloodthirsty beast to rip you apart, nobody lives a normal life. I highly doubt that in the sprawling mass of claustrophobic hive societies there is such a thing as love or romance. A family is just one more thing Administratum can requisition from you, or watch a million other horrible fates occur to. Human men don't live happy normal lives, so therefore a space marine is more likely to lead a fulfilling life. At least as fulfilling a life could be led in the 41st millennium. 

Now, i'm sorry I irritated you with my sense of humour. Maybe it's because I add "u" into words and switch around the "e" in others? But you seem to enjoy dissecting my posts and using the "berating a petulant child" tone with me. These boards are rife with sarcasm and I don't see why you keep on my ass about it. 

Abaddon is a badass and i'm just butthurt that my race is more Saturday morning cartoon villain than he is now. There, I said it.


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

Many civilians live ignorant happy lives. You just never hear about them because let's face it, that's boring.


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