# Imperial "Hell'



## HOGGLORD (Jan 25, 2012)

Does the Imperial cult contain reference to some sort of 'hell' concept, or is it just the warp or something similar?


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

The warp _is_ hell for all intents and purposes.

Still, a million worlds in the Imperium and all that. I'm sure that many worlds have concepts and words for hell; it can all fit within the broad and varied tapestry of the Imperium.


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## LTKage (May 2, 2012)

Just imagine how terrifying it must be on Cadia--you're literally manning the gates of hell.


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## redmapa (Nov 9, 2011)

Hell is to live without purpose.


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## Tawa (Jan 10, 2010)

Hell is being locked forever in a room with your friends.


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## hailene (Aug 28, 2009)

Hell is to denied the Emperor's light.


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## Mossy Toes (Jun 8, 2009)

Hell is the font from which your soul has sprung, and the source to which it will return upon your death. Heed not the lies of Imperial propaganda; no angelic host waits beyond the veil, ready to take you to the Emperor's side. Your soul will be devoured eternally, dissolved into the very essence of the Immaterium. Life is short, brutish, and cruel, but a mercy by comparison to what waits on either side of it...


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## Oldenangry (Oct 31, 2012)

hailene said:


> Hell is to denied the Emperor's light.


Amen! The Emperor protects!


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Not sure what the Ecclesiarchy teaches, but ordinary humans have little or no warp presence. Something to do with the comparative lack of emotional depth. Even Eldar souls are only a faint echo of their physical selves, and that's a race that experiences the heights of emotion.

So basically, humans have no souls. Thanks, GW! :alcoholic:


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> Not sure what the Ecclesiarchy teaches, but ordinary humans have little or no warp presence. Something to do with the comparative lack of emotional depth. Even Eldar souls are only a faint echo of their physical selves, and that's a race that experiences the heights of emotion.
> 
> So basically, humans have no souls. Thanks, GW! :alcoholic:


Human emotions form the bulk of what the Chaos powers feed off of. If humanity were to go extinct, the Chaos powers would be extremely weakened. Every human empowers the Chaos pantheon upon dying, even the Grey Knights.

The Eldar are the most potent psyker race in WH40k with every individual being a latent psyker (with the exception of their Dark Eldar cousins).


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## Serpion5 (Mar 19, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> Not sure what the Ecclesiarchy teaches, but ordinary humans have little or no warp presence. Something to do with the comparative lack of emotional depth. Even Eldar souls are only a faint echo of their physical selves, and that's a race that experiences the heights of emotion.
> 
> So basically, humans have no souls. Thanks, GW!


I think you've misunderstood. The generally accepted stance is that no human soul is strong enough to remain intact once it crosses into the warp after death. 

But as Malus pointed out, humans do have a significant presence in the warp. Certainly enough so to attract the attentions of daemons. 

For most, Hell is irrelevant and the worst they experience in life is the worst they will ever know. Only a select few can endure after death inside the warp, and there are usually certain circumstances to cause this.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Oops. Mis-wording on my part. I was speaking in relationship to an 'afterlife' in the warp. My understanding is that sentient creatures have a warp presence, but only the strongest-willed (or most emotional) actually retain an 'identity' after death.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

Upon death, all sentient beings have their souls devoured by the denizens of the Warp. 

It doesn't matter if they were strong psykers prior death.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Even primarchs and the like? I'd be curious as to a source on that count.


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## locustgate (Dec 6, 2009)

I remember from a while back in one of the books a demon said that in the warp souls are used as a sort of currency, I always assumed similar to anciant cultures foodstuff money, not modern paper/metal money.

There are frequent use of Warp take you, so I always assumed the general idea was that the warp was hell.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> Even primarchs and the like? I'd be curious as to a source on that count.


Don't know. I think they would be held prisoner like that Eldar deity given how valuable they are in the material realm and tortured forever.


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## BlackGuard (Sep 10, 2010)

I've also heard, and read somewhere I'm sure, that souls are a currency of sorts in the Warp. That being said surely the souls retain some form of identity even if its not conscious awareness of their existance in the Warp.

Still, it would be infinitely more merciful if souls simply "dissolved" into the Warp and retained no awarness. Far better a fate to just die and basically cease to exist, than to live on and feel the hungry claws and merciless teeth of the creatures of the Warp ...


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

The souls feed the denizens of the Warp and then become nothing more. 

The soul currency bit I believe is related to the Forge of Souls which is the Warp's equivalent of the Mechanicum and has no allegiance to either of the four powers.

The Forge demands souls in exchange for a 'chance to be fused with a mechanical construct and become a Soul Grinder.'

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Forge_of_Souls#.UST2uaXI1BY


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## Child-of-the-Emperor (Feb 22, 2009)

BlackGuard said:


> Still, it would be infinitely more merciful if souls simply "dissolved" into the Warp and retained no awarness. Far better a fate to just die and basically cease to exist, than to live on and feel the hungry claws and merciless teeth of the creatures of the Warp ...


_Codex: Chaos Space Marines_ claimed that most souls simply dissolve into the warp upon death. There are significant exceptions of course: the souls of Chaos worshippers are absorbed by their patron(s), Eldar souls are devoured by Slaanesh, those souls singled out by daemons to devour, etc.


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## randian (Feb 26, 2009)

Malus Darkblade said:


> It doesn't matter if they were strong psykers prior death.


Even strong psykers aren't a match for daemons in their own element. A daemon in the materium has a fraction of its might in the warp. It's possible a strong psyker might be able to hold off the lesser daemons until the strong ones showed up. Then there are the vast, unfathomable entities that even Magnus was afraid of in his warp jaunts.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

Imperials commend their souls to the emperor before battle. I wonder if this has some effect on the dissipation of their souls in the warp?


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## HonorableMan (Apr 15, 2012)

While everyone's talk about the warp being hell is true, I must point out that the average Imperial citizen knows a total of nothing about the warp. I'm pretty sure that- bear in mind, the average Imperial citizen- there is no hell. Iirc (can't remember where I read this, so take it with a grain of salt) in the Imperial cult, the worst thing that can happen is having the Emperor simply turning away their soul, in a sense. ("may the Emperor spit on your soul")


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> Imperials commend their souls to the emperor before battle. I wonder if this has some effect on the dissipation of their souls in the warp?


Nope. The daemon's devour you whatever you believe, commending your soul to the Emperor is just ritual designed to instill courage.



HonorableMan said:


> While everyone's talk about the warp being hell is true, I must point out that the average Imperial citizen knows a total of nothing about the warp. I'm pretty sure that- bear in mind, the average Imperial citizen- there is no hell. Iirc (can't remember where I read this, so take it with a grain of salt) in the Imperial cult, the worst thing that can happen is having the Emperor simply turning away their soul, in a sense. ("may the Emperor spit on your soul")


The average Imperial citizen would know very little about the warp as it really exists (ie. a parallel dimension of emotion inhabited by daemons and used as a means of travel) but that only makes it more likely that they would 'know' about it as a form of hell. And there certainly would be a hell in most versions of the Imperial Creed. Sinners have to go somewhere after all and the Imperial Creed is very big on sinners, otherwise there'd be no need for the constant vigilance it preaches. The Emperor turning away your soul is viewed as being so bad because it means your soul is going to hell (which it really is anyway). Without a hell there can be no heaven, without an Enemy there can be no Savior. The Imperial Creed requires a hell.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

MEQinc said:


> Nope. The daemon's devour you whatever you believe, commending your soul to the Emperor is just ritual designed to instill courage.


Eh, I don't buy it. In Grey Knights, there was a scene where Alaric stood on Titan where Inquisitor Ligaea was executed, lamenting that no one had commended her soul to the Emperor before she died. If such a ritual bears significance in the mind of a Grey Knight, who battles the worst the Warp has to offer and prevails, then there's merit to it.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> Eh, I don't buy it. In Grey Knights, there was a scene where Alaric stood on Titan where Inquisitor Ligaea was executed, lamenting that no one had commended her soul to the Emperor before she died. If such a ritual bears significance in the mind of a Grey Knight, who battles the worst the Warp has to offer and prevails, then there's merit to it.


In the Emperor's Gift, there 

is a scene where a Grey Knight dies and another watches his soul leave his body and it is the only time he has ever sensed genuine fear in the Grey Knight as they all know what really happens to one's soul when it heads to the Warp.


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## maelstrom48 (Sep 5, 2012)

If that's true and Grey Knights bear that knowledge, I don't see how any of them would fight on. But I'd be curious to read the book, given ADB's writing skill.


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## Malus Darkblade (Jan 8, 2010)

That's the whole dilemma of WH40k. There's no point unless the Emperor is fully healed and does something drastic and impossible like joining forces with the Necrons and the Eldar. 

There's even a Grey Knight in the Warp fighting the minions of the Chaos pantheon and doing a good job wiping them out only for them to come back to life seconds later.

In summary Astartes and the GK especially were made to never give up because they are humanity's only hope and the only thing giving them breathing room before what many consider as the inevitable.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

maelstrom48 said:


> If such a ritual bears significance in the mind of a Grey Knight, who battles the worst the Warp has to offer and prevails, then there's merit to it.


That doesn't really follow. As I said the ritual has quite a bit of religious significance, it just have any piratical effect. Just because the Grey Knights battle daemons on a daily basis doesn't mean they are any less invested in the religion and ritual of the Imperium. Indeed they might be more so (looking at the "I am the Hammer" prayer and their view of the Emperor and their own semi-divine nature).



maelstrom48 said:


> If that's true and Grey Knights bear that knowledge, I don't see how any of them would fight on.


That's the whole point of the entire Imperium. That's what makes the setting so dark. The truth is, Chaos really will win in the end and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. The Grey Knights know this, they just don't care, because even if they can't stop it they can delay it and in their mind buying even a minute more for the Imperium is a victory worthy of their sacrifice.


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## ckcrawford (Feb 4, 2009)

I would say there is no hell for all intents and purposes. Though Chaos and the warp could be considered that, most Imperial citizens don't believe in gods and know nothing about the warp. Even those who have seen daemons know nothing about chaos and the warp.


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## MEQinc (Dec 12, 2010)

ckcrawford said:


> I would say there is no hell for all intents and purposes.


I agree with this conclusion but not with the reasoning you use. To me, there's no Hell simply because Hell implies a choice or an option (Heaven OR Hell) whereas the warp is simply the only option. It's not Hell, it's not a punishment or the pace for 'bad' people it's just what happens.



> Though Chaos and the warp could be considered that, most Imperial citizens don't believe in gods and know nothing about the warp. Even those who have seen daemons know nothing about chaos and the warp.


As I said earlier.



MEQinc said:


> The average Imperial citizen would know very little about the warp as it really exists (ie. a parallel dimension of emotion inhabited by daemons and used as a means of travel) but that only makes it more likely that they would 'know' about it as a form of hell. And there certainly would be a hell in most versions of the Imperial Creed. Sinners have to go somewhere after all and the Imperial Creed is very big on sinners, otherwise there'd be no need for the constant vigilance it preaches. The Emperor turning away your soul is viewed as being so bad because it means your soul is going to hell (which it really is anyway). Without a hell there can be no heaven, without an Enemy there can be no Savior. The Imperial Creed requires a hell.


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## Kreuger (Aug 30, 2010)

There's also an earlier story of the emperor and the http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Child#.UTn-Qu6Xsz4meaning of the warp. This takes a totally different view of how grim things may or may not be.


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## Over Two Meters Tall! (Nov 1, 2010)

MEQinc said:


> I agree with this conclusion but not with the reasoning you use. To me, there's no Hell simply because Hell implies a choice or an option (Heaven OR Hell) whereas the warp is simply the only option. It's not Hell, it's not a punishment or the pace for 'bad' people it's just what happens.


There was an Evangelical preacher excommunicated by his parish here in the US a couple years ago for telling them he had a revelation that heaven or hell are what God has allowed us to create for ourselves here on Earth. I'm not religious or believe in divinity myself, but in context to the OP, I think the forces of Chaos has done a pretty good job turning existence in the 40K Imperium into Hell on Earth (Terra?).


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