# CSM: Kharybdis Assault Claw rules!



## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Saw someone on B&C point this out, didn't catch it until today:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/K/Kharybdis.pdf

Very expensive, but very fun. Maybe I'll scratch-build one. I'd feel stupid trying to proxy a convered SM drop pod as one of these when the size discrepancy is so huge.

I really hope they don't remove the Dreadclaw as an option. 10-man/dreadnought drop pod for 85 points is still a much more attractive choice than a 260 point 20-man/dreadnought drop pod.


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## loki619 (Mar 28, 2013)

what was wrong with death claws u take that away from csm give us drop pods ffs lol


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## Moonschwine (Jun 13, 2011)

Seems pretty expensive.

I'd just like a drop-pod that delivers dino-bots and marines.

Seriously It's all that the CSM codex needs (and the odd point tweak here and there, 43pt Mutilators for example but I digress)

Certainly thinking about a fire raptor though.




loki619 said:


> what was wrong with death claws u take that away from csm give us drop pods ffs lol


:shok: Man i'm getting too old these days.


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

loki619 said:


> what was wrong with death claws u take that away from csm give us drop pods ffs lol












I don't remember when CSM had Deathclaws...

Oh, you mean DREADCLAWS. Ah, that makes more sense. Well, there was a lot wrong with them.


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## Ddraig Cymry (Dec 30, 2012)

MidnightSun said:


> Oh, you mean DREADCLAWS. Ah, that makes more sense. Well, there was a lot wrong with them.


An 85 point AV12 all around flier that can carry ten berzerkers/equivalently kitted Chaos Marines or a Contemptor is still really tempting though. I'm considering building one, even if it does take up the all important Fast Attack slots Bikers can fill.

Interesting rules. I'd rather spend 85 for the Dreadclaw, but this thing not being a Fast Attack choice is interesting.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm constantly unsure of how Forge World books/rules work.

The Imperial Armour Apocalypse (2013) doesn't have the Assault Claw or the Dreadclaw in it.

Imperial Armour Aeronautica (2012) does contain the Dreadclaw rules in it.

Is there a reason we can/can't use either? Clearly the IA books are not mutually exclusive, so how do we know when stuff is removed from army lists? If a new Aeronautica book came out without the Dreadclaw, that would probably be the only sure way to know it's not in the game any more. 

Am I totally off?


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## MidnightSun (Feb 10, 2009)

Ddraig Cymry said:


> An 85 point AV12 all around flier that can carry ten berzerkers/equivalently kitted Chaos Marines or a Contemptor is still really tempting though. I'm considering building one, even if it does take up the all important Fast Attack slots Bikers can fill.
> 
> Interesting rules. I'd rather spend 85 for the Dreadclaw, but this thing not being a Fast Attack choice is interesting.


But you're not getting into close combat until Turn 3 earliest if you get your reserve roll and take the enemy's Skyfire, so I'm not really sure why'd you'd bring one over... Well, footslogging, even.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

venomlust said:


> I'm constantly unsure of how Forge World books/rules work.
> 
> The Imperial Armour Apocalypse (2013) doesn't have the Assault Claw or the Dreadclaw in it.
> 
> ...


New books don't invalidate previous books 
Units get more difficult to use as the rules don't always get updated (eg my nightwings haven't got bladestorm on their shuriken cannons)
The dreadclaw is still able to be used with the rules from that last book it was featured in, you just can't buy one from forgeworld at the moment. So the FW dreadclaw is still legal to use in game. Most people I know who use them have converted SM drop pods into them in order to use one.

*Thinks - actually, I have an unbuilt drop pod. And enough csm's to make 5 chosen with plasma guns...hmmm*


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Everything this does, a Storm Eagle does better, and if you have the points, a Caestus is better in all but capacity.


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## scscofield (May 23, 2011)

Csm can take those?


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Caestus not too sure about, but Storm Eagle I'm pretty confident are allowed.


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

CSM get the storm eagle. My wife's just finished making mine 
I'm sure they don't get the caestus though.
In general
The advantages I can see the kharybdis getting over the storm eagle are +1HP and Drop Pod Assault - meaning you can have 20 marines in your opponents face turn one. The storm eagle can only get men out by turn 3 (turn 2 arrive and fly, turn three hover mode and disembark)
The Storm eagle outguns the kharybdis though...

The more I think about this, the more I'd like one. a 20 man drop pod assault... Also, it's a flier with a transport capacity. So you could drop down, not disembark and charge the next turn with 20 possessed (or 10 chosen with as many lightning claws as they could carry + a lord with a demon weapon). As you count as hovering when you've deep struck, even though your opponant could shoot it down, you wouldn't be a crashing flier and would avoid the st10 hit that entails on the occupants...

10 Terminators with combi plasma in a kharybdis would be a brutal first turn attack. You could drop down (hopefully in rapid fire range) and wipe out your opponants warlords + whatever he was with = Slay the warlord and First Blood immediately.

Dammit! yesterday, I told the wife I was done buying for a while! :suicide:


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

scscofield said:


> Csm can take those?


I don't believe we can, unless I've missed something.

We can definitely take a Storm Eagle, though.




Gret79 said:


> Dammit! yesterday, I told the wife I was done buying for a while! :suicide:


Hey, "a while" is so relative, right? :biggrin: I told myself the same thing before buying my Fire Raptor, and now that I've ordered the parts for another Lord on Juggernaut + 5 Spawn. I don't have any Raptors in my army...


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## Gret79 (May 11, 2012)

In the cupboard, waiting to be made, there are 10 raptors, 10 warp talons, 20 chosen, 10 cultists, a decimator, 3 landraiders, two vindicators, 30 noise marines, 8 berzerkers, 2 sorcerors, 4 chaos lords, 2 havoc squads (although I may sell those...) an aegis defence line, a drop pod I'm thinking about converting into a dreadclaw and half a heldrake to get through... (most of the vehicles only need repainting though).
As my wife does the painting, she tends to notice when I get new stuff so I can't even sneak it past her. This is probably a good thing considering the above list.
Thats not counting the 'wants' list I've already got - A chaos relic plasma pred, a fire raptor, a NL legion list and now the kharybdis.

Gret79 - keeping gw going since 1992. :headbutt:
I must hate having money.


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## venomlust (Feb 9, 2010)

Gret79 said:


> I must hate having money.


_That's_ our problem, yeah!


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## Vaz (Mar 19, 2008)

Hmm, the Drop Pod assault it definately has going for it; It is an early game light vehicle killer. Its ability to fire at 5 different targets allows it to kill probably 1-2 light vehicles a turn from the Storm Launchers, maybe one from its Melta Ram Deep Strike affect, and then its ability to drop in either a support Melta squad, or Combi-Melta Cataphractii Terms means you can reliably kill perhaps 4 vehicles on the first turn.

One of its strengths (like the Deathclaw) is the ability to Drop Pod assault without actually needing to take the relevant Rite of War, so you don't need to change your entire army just to field it. Of course, it's also the cost of tooled up Land Raider, and being fair, a Land Raider is one of the few methods of "all comers" AT in the Legion list (other forms of AT are highly subjective to what the enemy is able to counter with).

Talking of Land Raiders, I noticed the Achilles was given playtest rules. These change very little from playtest (not that many people tend to play with Experimental rules, though to actually influence them however) to release. 

It's actually a reasonable light AT (and AA, arguably) platform now; Heavy 4 isn't brilliant, but it is an okay stop gap; between TL'd Culverins, it can put out 12 Medium-High Strength shots; enough to effectively ground a zooming flyer, or even put some hurt on it - the Sunder special rule is awesome for that purpose. Just got to ensure you hit it - which is where your Divination Librarian comes into play (said Librarian sitting on a Quad gun etc).

Actually, it's a decent AA weapon, better than Hyperios and Flakk Missiles.

As you can see, it is resilient as fuck; no Lance, no melta, AV14, 4HP, and -1 to damage rolls suffered? Yeh, it's not going many places.

Oh, and the bad news; no


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